NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htterr/articles/20060629.aspx

One example:

"Islamic terrorists in Lebanon kidnapped a Russian diplomat. The Russians (then the Soviets, a distinction without much difference in these matters) quickly found out which faction had their guy, kidnapped a relative of one of the kidnappers, and had a body part delivered to the Islamic kidnappers. The message was, release the Russian diplomat unharmed, or the KGB (Soviet secret police) would keep sending body parts, and grabbing kinfolk of the kidnappers. The Russian diplomat was released."

The Western world can learn a thing or to from the Russians eh?

Ew...

Sending body parts, maybe. But kidnapping one of the kidnapper's relatives...? Why stoop to their level?

Though I do see sending kidnappers body parts as kind of gross. :eek: :gundge:

I really hope the body part was from a corpse and that the innocent was harmed otherwise the Russain government is just as bad as the terrorists. Why is an innocent worth less then a diplomat?

Ew...

Sending body parts, maybe. But kidnapping one of the kidnapper's relatives...? Why stoop to their level?

Though I do see sending kidnappers body parts as kind of gross. :eek: :gunge:

Well at least its not the Israel method of killing everyone.

Ew...

Sending body parts, maybe. But kidnapping one of the kidnapper's relatives...? Why stoop to their level?

Though I do see sending kidnappers body parts as kind of gross. :eek: :gunge:
All that counts is the result.

The diplomat was released, would you rather he had his head chopped off?

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htterr/articles/20060629.aspx

One example:

"Islamic terrorists in Lebanon kidnapped a Russian diplomat. The Russians (then the Soviets, a distinction without much difference in these matters) quickly found out which faction had their guy, kidnapped a relative of one of the kidnappers, and had a body part delivered to the Islamic kidnappers. The message was, release the Russian diplomat unharmed, or the KGB (Soviet secret police) would keep sending body parts, and grabbing kinfolk of the kidnappers. The Russian diplomat was released."

The Western world can learn a thing or to from the Russians eh?

Read what george kennan wrote when the cold war started.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htterr/articles/20060629.aspx

One example:

"Islamic terrorists in Lebanon kidnapped a Russian diplomat. The Russians (then the Soviets, a distinction without much difference in these matters) quickly found out which faction had their guy, kidnapped a relative of one of the kidnappers, and had a body part delivered to the Islamic kidnappers. The message was, release the Russian diplomat unharmed, or the KGB (Soviet secret police) would keep sending body parts, and grabbing kinfolk of the kidnappers. The Russian diplomat was released."

The Western world can learn a thing or to from the Russians eh?
Sure could. Our country is WAY to soft on terrorists.

I really hope the body part was from a corpse and that the innocent was harmed otherwise the Russain government is just as bad as the terrorists. Why is an innocent worth less then a diplomat?
Yeah, me too...

I really hope the body part was from a corpse and that the innocent was harmed otherwise the Russain government is just as bad as the terrorists. Why is an innocent worth less then a diplomat?

Innocent as in standing by and doing nothing while your relative plots to capture people and chop their heads off?

Ew...

Sending body parts, maybe. But kidnapping one of the kidnapper's relatives...? Why stoop to their level?

Though I do see sending kidnappers body parts as kind of gross. :eek: :gundge:
Why? Because it's alot more scary to a terrorist to know that his whole family will be wiped out as a consequence of his actions than to simply threaten his life. He's ready to die, but he's not ready to have his wife and children raped and dismembered while still alive and dumped on some street corner like a bag of trash. It makes sense, but there are some moral concerns you have to get over in order to make use of it.

Well at least its not the Israel method of killing everyone.
What, killing the terrorists you mean? The Mossad eats AK-47 toting terrorists for breakfsast. :)

So whats going to happen to the terrorist that chopped off the heads of the four Russian diplomats ? And put it on the internet ? I am sure they are quaking in there little terrorist booties .

Innocent as in standing by and doing nothing while your relative plots to capture people and chop their heads off?
Now THAT'S true.

Of course. As we all know the USA is a lite version of the Soviet Union.

What, killing the terrorists you mean? The Mossad eats AK-47 toting terrorists for breakfsast. :)

Uh, no. I mean killing everyone. Killing everyone who shares the same ethnicity as the terrorist but is not a terrorist themselves.

I really hope the body part was from a corpse and that the innocent was harmed otherwise the Russain government is just as bad as the terrorists. Why is an innocent worth less then a diplomat?
Because killing those innocents may deter the terrorists and spare the lives of several other innocent people over the long run. Also because it's quite reasonable and rational to place a higher value on your people than on your enemy's people.

`Tis not contrary to reason to prefer the destruction of the whole world to the scratching of my finger. It's reasonable to look out for your own and fuck over your enemies.

Uh, no. I mean killing everyone. Killing everyone who shares the same ethnicity as the terrorist but is not a terrorist themselves.


Well you see if it were true that the US or anyone else just killed everyone then the terrorist problem would be solved because everyone would be dead .
except the terrorist ...if they followed your precepts...than all that would have to be done would be to kill the left overs...problem solved .

See, THAT's the way to do things.

i think this quote from Apocolypse Now should be useful in the fight against terrorists:

"Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not then they are enemies to be feared."

Uh, no. I mean killing everyone. Killing everyone who shares the same ethnicity as the terrorist but is not a terrorist themselves.
Yeah, see, Israel doesn't do that. The most they've done is bulldoze some houses belonging to terrorist's families. Perhaps if they did just kill the shit out of Palestinians it would drive them to the bargaining table, but they don't.

Yeah, because that won't breed further hatred and thus more terrorists. Great idea.

When george kennan set out the cold war in his long telegram, here's the advice he gave.

"Finally we must have courage and self-confidence to cling to our own methods and conceptions of human society... the greatest danger that can befall us in coping with this problem of Soviet communism, is that we shall allow ourselves to become like those with whom we are coping."

Yeah, because that won't breed further hatred and thus more terrorists. Great idea.
Please, how many people are willing to be terrorists if they know their entire family will be tortured to death as a result?

Uh, no. I mean killing everyone. Killing everyone who shares the same ethnicity as the terrorist but is not a terrorist themselves.
Uh, no. They made a few civillian kills by accident before. You're making them out like Hitler.

Please, how many people are willing to be terrorists if they know their entire family will be tortured to death as a result?
Enough.

i think this quote from Apocolypse Now should be useful in the fight against terrorists:

"Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not then they are enemies to be feared."


Hmmm almost sig worthy .;)

Here are other things that the Soviet Union did better than the US:

- Keeping the press under tight control.
- Maintaining people under surveillance.
- Banning dissent.

As we all know, the Soviet Union never suffered a terrorist attack. As soon as Russia slackened the reigns, well...

Innocent as in standing by and doing nothing while your relative plots to capture people and chop their heads off?
Are you honestly telling me you know everything that is happening in your relative's life? I'm not staying with my parents and I couldn't tell you what my brother is up to if my life depended on it.

So yes, Innocent.

Enough.
Well then they and others with a genetic predisposition to become terrorists might soon be eliminated by destroying the families who tend to commit terrorist acts despite the risk to their "loved" ones.

Yeah, because that won't breed further hatred and thus more terrorists. Great idea.

drinking and flying is not a good idea .

.... genetic predisposition to become terrorists ....

You forget to take your meds this morning?

I considered the situation. My first thought was that I'd NEVER do what the Russians did, but I quickly remembered my Machiavelli (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=490419), and two of his sayings came to mind. "The ends, justifies the means." "A leaders responsibity is to his people's welfare, not his morals."

Well then they and others with a genetic predisposition to become terrorists might soon be eliminated by destroying the families who tend to commit terrorist acts despite the risk to their "loved" ones.

There's a genetic predisposition to terrorism now?

Hmmm almost sig worthy .;)
What exactly is a "sig"?

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htterr/articles/20060629.aspx

One example:

"Islamic terrorists in Lebanon kidnapped a Russian diplomat. The Russians (then the Soviets, a distinction without much difference in these matters) quickly found out which faction had their guy, kidnapped a relative of one of the kidnappers, and had a body part delivered to the Islamic kidnappers. The message was, release the Russian diplomat unharmed, or the KGB (Soviet secret police) would keep sending body parts, and grabbing kinfolk of the kidnappers. The Russian diplomat was released."

The Western world can learn a thing or to from the Russians eh?

FUCK YEAH!

There's a genetic predisposition to terrorism now?
Not for certain, but commonly terrorists are Islamic, and are from the Middle-East.

What exactly is a "sig"?

MOOOOOOOOOOOOVE SIG!

FOR GREAT JUSTICE!

What exactly is a "sig"?

Signature. The writing under our posts. Although you won’t see them if you don’t have them turned on.

drinking and flying is not a good idea.

That may be, but I'm the master of bad ideas.

You forget to take your meds this morning?
A person who will engage in terrorism despite the fact that his family will pay for his actions with torture and death is a sociopath.

There is some evidence that sociopathy has a genetic root.

http://www.bbsonline.org/Preprints/OldArchive/bbs.mealey.html

Knowing how vastly liberal NationStaters are, and how RADICALY conservative this action of Russia's was, I'm highly suprised by the majority of opinions here...

You win any war by being superior on the field of contest.

In a war on terror it becomes plain to see where the golden path lies.

Not for certain, but commonly terrorists are Islamic, and are from the Middle-East.
Uh, not really what I was getting at. Terrorists are likely to be sociopaths. There is evidence that sociopathy has a genetic root.

A person who will engage in terrorism despite the fact that his family will pay for his actions with torture and death is a sociopath.

There is some evidence that sociopathy has a genetic root.

http://www.bbsonline.org/Preprints/OldArchive/bbs.mealey.html

Wow, then I guess instead on the War on Terror there should be therapists flown out to Tora Bora instead. :rolleyes:

Not for certain, but commonly terrorists are Islamic, and are from the Middle-East.
That is leaving a huge amount of terrorists.

IRA, Tamil Tigers, Spain's ETA comes immediatly to mind.

Wow, then I guess instead on the War on Terror there should be therapists flown out to Tora Bora instead. :rolleyes:
Might do some good in the local villages. Maybe keep a new generation of kids from becoming terrorists, or at least help identify terrorists in the making so we can eliminate them.

Not for certain, but commonly terrorists are Islamic, and are from the Middle-East.

Not so. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_group)There's a large contingent of them, but there's many others.

Although, interestingly enough, there is a close genetic match between the Irish, Arabic and Basque peoples.

A person who will engage in terrorism despite the fact that his family will pay for his actions with torture and death is a sociopath.

There is some evidence that sociopathy has a genetic root.

http://www.bbsonline.org/Preprints/OldArchive/bbs.mealey.html
so, in other words, there is no genetic predisposition to terrorism unless you define terrorism as sociopath.

Seeing as all terrorists are not sociopath, and that all sociopath are not terrorists, I shall have to say you are wrong.

Might do some good in the local villages. Maybe keep a new generation of kids from becoming terrorists, or at least help identify terrorists in the making so we can eliminate them.

Patient/Therapist confidentiality. Where would find enough Psychiatrists willing to break the code of practice?

I can't believe I dignified that idea with a serious question.

so, in other words, there is no genetic predisposition to terrorism unless you define terrorism as sociopath.

Seeing as all terrorists are not sociopath, and that all sociopath are not terrorists, I shall have to say you are wrong.
You're neglecting parts of my argument. All of this originally was brought about by the idea that one way to deal with terrorists is to kill their families. Most would stop being terrorists if their families were going to be killed as a result. (Many terrorists come from family-oriented cultures). Another poster pointed out that it wouldn't stop enough of them. So I said it would do so, only more slowly by turning the sociopath genes into a reproductive disadvantage. Over several generations the people who would still commit terrorist acts despite the fact that their families would suffer and die would become less common because they and their family members who carry the genes would be killed off.

It's just a hypothesis, but it would be interesting to test it for eight or ten generations.

Not so. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_group)There's a large contingent of them, but there's many others.

Although, interestingly enough, there is a close genetic match between the Irish, Arabic and Basque peoples.
Of course! *Snaps* No wonder there are so many Irish terrorists!
Anyway, I never said "ALL TERRORIST ARE MOSLEMS FROMTHE MIDDLE-EAST!" I said "commonly". There are bad poeple in all societies, however, the Middle-East has more bad people of this paticular type.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htterr/articles/20060629.aspx

One example:

"Islamic terrorists in Lebanon kidnapped a Russian diplomat. The Russians (then the Soviets, a distinction without much difference in these matters) quickly found out which faction had their guy, kidnapped a relative of one of the kidnappers, and had a body part delivered to the Islamic kidnappers. The message was, release the Russian diplomat unharmed, or the KGB (Soviet secret police) would keep sending body parts, and grabbing kinfolk of the kidnappers. The Russian diplomat was released."

The Western world can learn a thing or to from the Russians eh?

You don't think the west knows anything about killing innocent people as revenge?

I don't see how you could condone such behavior but as long as you can live with yoruself, I guess there's no problem as long as you aren't the vigilante type.

Patient/Therapist confidentiality. Where would find enough Psychiatrists willing to break the code of practice?

I can't believe I dignified that idea with a serious question.What, doctors can't be persuaded to change their moral stance? If you could convince them that it's the morally right thing to do and that it will in the long run decrease suffering and death I'm sure many would go along with it.

What, killing the terrorists you mean? The Mossad eats AK-47 toting terrorists for breakfsast. :)
Yes, and their wives, children, brohters, sisters, parents, cousins, friends, people they met on the street, and anyone in the near vicinity of those already mentioned

Why is it no one recognises that the terrorist were so cowed ...that they were cringing sooooo much...shaking from fear of Russia ..that they kidnapped four diplomats and beheaded them and put the movie on the internet while doing the "Jihad shuffle "...then still shaking with fear they went back to dreaming about virgins with pretty veils .

They are also under a death sentence ...laser guided bombs and hellfire missiles..come to mind..whenever they are spotted...they still do the jihad boogie whenever they feel like it .

So if you cant even identify and kill the dancers how can you target their family ?

hmmmmmmmmm ? riddle me that one batman .

Why is it no one recognises that the terrorist were so cowed ...that they were cringing sooooo much...shaking from fear of Russia ..that they kidnapped four diplomats and beheaded them and put the movie on the internet while doing the "Jihad shuffle "...then still shaking with fear they went back to dreaming about virgins with pretty veils .

They are also under a death sentence ...laser guided bombs and hellfire missiles..come to mind..whenever they are spotted...they still do the jihad boogie whenever they feel like it .

So if you cant even identify and kill the dancers how can you target their family ?

hmmmmmmmmm ? riddle me that one batman .
Well, it took a while to find Zarkawi, but we knew exactly what village in Jordan his family lived in. It would have been no problem, leaving aside US/Jordanian politics, to snatch them up and brutally, slowly murder them then dump their corpses in Falujah or some other Sunni insurgent stronghold.

Signature. The writing under our posts. Although you won’t see them if you don’t have them turned on.



That may be, but I'm the master of bad ideas.
Ah-so!

Signature. The writing under our posts. Although you won’t see them if you don’t have them turned on.

Er, ah yes...uh...how do I turn them on?

Yes, let's kill innocent people to prevent terrorists from killing innocent people. That makes PERFECT sense!

Yes, let's kill innocent people to prevent terrorists from killing innocent people. That makes PERFECT sense!
It does if you accept that doing so might reduce or eliminate terrorism in the long run and therefore your actions end up saving more lives than they take, and/or different human lives have different value (my people's lives are worth alot more than some Afghani or Saudi lives in my estimation).

Innocent as in standing by and doing nothing while your relative plots to capture people and chop their heads off?

How do you know he even knew what his relative was doing? Its not something you bring up at the family reunion is it?

Well, it took a while to find Zarkawi, but we knew exactly what village in Jordan his family lived in. It would have been no problem, leaving aside US/Jordanian politics, to snatch them up and brutally, slowly murder them then dump their corpses in Falujah or some other Sunni insurgent stronghold.


And what if he became a terrorrist because he hated his family and you just made him the happiest Jihadist in all of Islam lands ?:p

aside from the fact that you now became as bad as the terrorist you are fighting..what did you accomplish ?

Why? Because it's alot more scary to a terrorist to know that his whole family will be wiped out as a consequence of his actions than to simply threaten his life. He's ready to die, but he's not ready to have his wife and children raped and dismembered while still alive and dumped on some street corner like a bag of trash. It makes sense, but there are some moral concerns you have to get over in order to make use of it.
Exactly, terrorists respect power, the only way to get him to cooperate is to fight fire with fire.

Just to make a point here...
Russian culture and values are not the same as 'Western' ones. Russia developed along rather different lines, being caught between Asia and Europe, they sort of caught a grab-bag of Mongol, Central Asian/Turkic and Eastern European values.
For one thing, they tend to be rather direct in their actions. Taking a historical example...
Back in the 1600's, they caught a guy who was pretended to be Tsar, he was a Pole.
They killed him, cremated him, loaded his ashes into a cannon and blasted him into Poland.

This is not to say that Russian culture and civilization is any worse than traditional western values, I actually quite like it.
Its just that trying to line up Russian values with traditional European values is like pounding the proverbial square peg into the round hole.

Just to make a point here...
Russian culture and values are not the same as 'Western' ones. Russia developed along rather different lines, being caught between Asia and Europe, they sort of caught a grab-bag of Mongol, Central Asian/Turkic and Eastern European values.
For one thing, they tend to be rather direct in their actions. Taking a historical example...
Back in the 1600's, they caught a guy who was pretended to be Tsar, he was a Pole.
They killed him, cremated him, loaded his ashes into a cannon and blasted him into Poland.

This is not to say that Russian culture and civilization is any worse than traditional western values, I actually quite like it.
Its just that trying to line up Russian values with traditional European values is like pounding the proverbial square peg into the round hole.
Then drill the round hole so it becomes square.

And what if he became a terrorrist because he hated his family and you just made him the happiest Jihadist in all of Islam lands ?:p

aside from the fact that you now became as bad as the terrorist you are fighting..what did you accomplish ?
How many of them can there be?

"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" held to his mother's head.

Just to make a point here...
Russian culture and values are not the same as 'Western' ones. Russia developed along rather different lines, being caught between Asia and Europe, they sort of caught a grab-bag of Mongol, Central Asian/Turkic and Eastern European values.
For one thing, they tend to be rather direct in their actions. Taking a historical example...
Back in the 1600's, they caught a guy who was pretended to be Tsar, he was a Pole.
They killed him, cremated him, loaded his ashes into a cannon and blasted him into Poland.

This is not to say that Russian culture and civilization is any worse than traditional western values, I actually quite like it.
Its just that trying to line up Russian values with traditional European values is like pounding the proverbial square peg into the round hole.


explains why Russia wants to send the NK's a " bad boy " note instead of actually doing anything constructive .

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htterr/articles/20060629.aspx

One example:

"Islamic terrorists in Lebanon kidnapped a Russian diplomat. The Russians (then the Soviets, a distinction without much difference in these matters) quickly found out which faction had their guy, kidnapped a relative of one of the kidnappers, and had a body part delivered to the Islamic kidnappers. The message was, release the Russian diplomat unharmed, or the KGB (Soviet secret police) would keep sending body parts, and grabbing kinfolk of the kidnappers. The Russian diplomat was released."

The Western world can learn a thing or to from the Russians eh?

If we start doing that, then we become like them. We're too damned close as it is.

Who the fuck cares if you're like them?
Christ, look at the War Measures Act.

If we start doing that, then we become like them. We're too damned close as it is.
So what?

The goal isn't to prove some moral point, it's to eliminate the enemy's capability and/or will to attack us and to protect our own people.

Er, ah yes...uh...how do I turn them on?

Click the tag that says "profile" then go to "edit options" and there should be a box marked "Show Signatures" that you can tick. Press the button marked "save chages" and you're sorted.

Good for them. Cruel, but damnably effective.

I really hope the body part was from a corpse and that the innocent was harmed otherwise the Russain government is just as bad as the terrorists. Why is an innocent worth less then a diplomat?
If you kill the leader of a country and get caught, you almost certainly would get a harder sentence than if you killed a poor/homeless person, don't you think? The state has it's priorities.

So what?

The goal isn't to prove some moral point, it's to eliminate the enemy's capability and/or will to attack us and to protect our own people.
Isn't it?

If your methods are no better than the terrorist's, then neither are your morals.

And if your morals are no better than the terrorist's, then your no better then they are.

I'm better than a terrorist thank you very much.

Exactly, terrorists respect power, the only way to get him to cooperate is to fight fire with fire.

Very few liberals understand this it seems.

Isn't it?

If your methods are no better than the terrorist's, then neither are your morals.

And if your morals are no better than the terrorist's, then your no better then they are.

I'm better than a terrorist thank you very much.
It's not about being better, it's about being alive when it's all over.

It's not about being better, it's about being alive when it's all over.

I'd rather be dead, than alive with the morals of a terrorist.

Isn't it?

If your methods are no better than the terrorist's, then neither are your morals.

And if your morals are no better than the terrorist's, then your no better then they are.

I'm better than a terrorist thank you very much.

What a nice person you are. Next time Osama succeeds in killing thousands of Westerners why dont you send him and his family a batch of cookies?

Hug him and kiss him as well :fluffle:

What a nice person you are. Next time Osama succeeds in killing thousands of Westerners why dont you send him and his family a batch of cookies?

Hug him and kiss him as well :fluffle:
Right.
Why don't I slap your parents instead of you, for starting this thread...

What a nice person you are. Next time Osama succeeds in killing thousands of Westerners why dont you send him and his family a batch of cookies?

Hug him and kiss him as well :fluffle:

I'm sure his family would appreciate it, but they probably own the cookie factory being fantastically wealthy and all. That, and they disowned him a loooonnnnnngggg time ago, so that part of your point is moot.

As for the rest, is sarcasm your final argument? Because if it is.....

Click the tag that says "profile" then go to "edit options" and there should be a box marked "Show Signatures" that you can tick. Press the button marked "save chages" and you're sorted.
Thank you.

Yes, and their wives, children, brohters, sisters, parents, cousins, friends, people they met on the street, and anyone in the near vicinity of those already mentioned
Your statement bears some grim fact, but you are HIGHLY exagerating.

I'd rather be dead, than alive with the morals of a terrorist.
Good for you. It would be better for all humanity, however, if we could be truly effective in wiping out terrorism and then return to our nice comfortable ethical lives.

Right.
Why don't I slap your parents instead of you, for starting this thread...

If you touch my parents, I shall be forced to END you. :D

:mp5: :sniper: :mp5:

Well its the simple fact that, If you want to end terroism, you have to do such things. Those are whats effective. Terroist dont stop when you cry about peace, free love and harmony. They keep killing until someone fucks em' up, Russian style.

Well its the simple fact that, If you want to end terroism, you have to do such things. Those are whats effective. Terroist dont stop when you cry about peace, free love and harmony. They keep killing until someone fucks em' up, Russian style.
Exactly!
The way they stopped in Chechnya.

EDIT: No, wait... did they stop? Did they go even more violent...? Very confusing this...

Good for you. It would be better for all humanity, however, if we could be truly effective in wiping out terrorism and then return to our nice comfortable ethical lives.

Of course wiping out terrorism would benefit humanity, I haven't said otherwise.

That doesn't mean we have to debase ourselves to their level. You don't fight fire with fire.

For everyone that is glorifying the methods the Russians used as 'working', pray tell why is Chechnya still such a shit hole? Why does Islamic terrorism continue to raise its head inside the CIS?

(Don't blame the Soviet's as having cracked down on it when they were around- they funded most of the terrorist groups since the 70's-- THAT'S why there were never terrorist attacks inside the USSR)

Exactly!
The way they stopped in Chechnya.
Joe Stalin knew how to keep those damn chechens in line.

It's not about being better, it's about being alive when it's all over.

Precisely.

Quite frankly, Islamic fundamentalism has demonstrated itself to be implacable and incompassionate, hence it would appear to be long overdue to stop using the fire extintinguisher and start brandishing the flamethrower.

Joe Stalin knew how to keep those damn chechens in line.
Joe Stalin would pale if he saw some of the jive going on today.

Joe Stalin knew how to keep those damn chechens in line.


Too bad after Josef died they let them all out of the gulags :(

Precisely.

Quite frankly, Islamic fundamentalism has demonstrated itself to be implacable and incompassionate, hence it would appear to be long overdue to stop using the fire extintinguisher and start brandishing the flamethrower.

Who said anything about Islamic Fundamentalism? We're talking about terrorism.

Once again, just so it's understood, I bring up this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=490419) point.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htterr/articles/20060629.aspx

One example:

"Islamic terrorists in Lebanon kidnapped a Russian diplomat. The Russians (then the Soviets, a distinction without much difference in these matters) quickly found out which faction had their guy, kidnapped a relative of one of the kidnappers, and had a body part delivered to the Islamic kidnappers. The message was, release the Russian diplomat unharmed, or the KGB (Soviet secret police) would keep sending body parts, and grabbing kinfolk of the kidnappers. The Russian diplomat was released."

The Western world can learn a thing or to from the Russians eh?
I suppose it's a race to the bottom when fighting terrorists. Who can set a new low point for human civilisation?

I suppose it's a race to the bottom...
I never thought I'd see that line on here :D

I suppose it's a race to the bottom when fighting terrorists. Who can set a new low point for human civilisation?
I could if someone would elect me to public office.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htterr/articles/20060629.aspx

One example:

"Islamic terrorists in Lebanon kidnapped a Russian diplomat. The Russians (then the Soviets, a distinction without much difference in these matters) quickly found out which faction had their guy, kidnapped a relative of one of the kidnappers, and had a body part delivered to the Islamic kidnappers. The message was, release the Russian diplomat unharmed, or the KGB (Soviet secret police) would keep sending body parts, and grabbing kinfolk of the kidnappers. The Russian diplomat was released."

The Western world can learn a thing or to from the Russians eh?

This is the only way to deal with Islamofascist filth.

Precisely.

Quite frankly, Islamic fundamentalism has demonstrated itself to be implacable and incompassionate, hence it would appear to be long overdue to stop using the fire extintinguisher and start brandishing the flamethrower.

Well said! That should be sigged :D

That's one thing I've always admired about the Russians. When they're dealing with filth like this they destroy them through whatever means necessary. Unlike the spineless British governments they don't worry about the human rights of the poor terrorists.

As for the idea of targeting families of the terrorists, sometimes you have to resort to drastic means to destroy your enemy. I think some of the London bombers were married with kids. The trouble with suicide bombers is that they can't fear the consequences when they die. So you have to target what they hold dearest to them. If you did this then I'm sure it would deter a lot of potential terrorists. I acknowledge that it wouldn't deter all of them, but I'm sure it would at least narrow the pool down.

Putin's payback.

George Bush should take notes. If we used Putin style diplomacy we'd have no need for Gitmo...

Putin's payback.

George Bush should take notes. If we used Putin style diplomacy we'd have no need for Gitmo...
No, this is during the Soviet era, not modern day Russia under President Putin. Remember the 'Evil Empire', the antithesis of the West? Yeah, thats the thing people are crowing over.

And I'm a little hesitant given the 'neutrality' of the source site. It does not specify what Lebanese group actually took the Soviet diplomat originally- it could very well have not been an 'Islamic group'.

Another reason to love Russia. ^^ Can't wait for when they join us in the EU. XD

Then drill the round hole so it becomes square.
Yeah...the Poles tried that, and look where THEY are now.
The Russians tried it as well, and it didnt work well for them. Finland exists, and people there speak Finnish, not Russian. People in Central Asia speak their own crazy languages, not Russian, and not all of them are Orthodox Christians or Communists, which is what the Russian Empire and Soviet Union variously tried to make them.

Anyway, your solution to culture clashes is to impose your own culture on another? What makes your culture better than theirs?

Precisely.

Quite frankly, Islamic fundamentalism has demonstrated itself to be implacable and incompassionate, hence it would appear to be long overdue to stop using the fire extintinguisher and start brandishing the flamethrower.
That is a perfect analogy! What you are suggesting is to put out the fire of terrorism with a flame thrower (aggression). As one would expect, the flamethrower(aggression) will serve only to increase the overall amount of fire(terrorism), and the intensity of the existing fire(terrorism). Unfortunately for us, our house (society) is made of wood (freedom) and as such, highly succeptible to fire (terrorism). Fighting the fire (terrorism) with a flame thrower (aggression) will serve only to eventually burn down the house (society), granted that once the house(society) is gone, the fire(terrorism) will also be gone. An alternate solution which many people in our house(society) are in favour of is to sacrifice our accomodating wooden (freedom) house (society) for a more fireproof one, like a concrete(totalitarian) house(society). However, most of us consider abandoning the comfortable wood(freedom) for the utilitarian concrete(totalitarian) as letting the fire win. Currently we try to prevent house(society)fires(terrorism) from occuring by taking precautions against safety hazards (security risks). This often fails, and we have to spend a lot of time putting out fire using an extinguisher (reactionary politics). How do we stop the fires? Go to the source of the fires(terrorism), the fireplace (terrorist havens), and correct problems there which seem to spread fire (terrorism) via our fire haards (securit risks). Either that, or we could abandon the fireplace (terrorist haven) all together because of the security risk it poses. It is also possible that if we ignore the fires (terrorism) that they will eventually burn out and die, even in the fireplace (terrorist haven).

*Begins singing Russian National Anthem*

This is the only way to deal with Islamofascist filth.

By becoming filth itself apparently.

And those that approve of it are already no better than filth.

So first they hated the commies, now people like you want to become like the most brutal of the commies eh? What next? Gulags for "enemies of the state"? Death camps?

Oh wait. That's already being advocated by some "civilized" people on this board. Notably war hawks.

Cowardly war hawks at that. "I'm sooooo scared of the big Islamic boogeyman. Take away my freedoms. Imprison everybody. Just keep me safe"

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htterr/articles/20060629.aspx

One example:

"Islamic terrorists in Lebanon kidnapped a Russian diplomat. The Russians (then the Soviets, a distinction without much difference in these matters) quickly found out which faction had their guy, kidnapped a relative of one of the kidnappers, and had a body part delivered to the Islamic kidnappers. The message was, release the Russian diplomat unharmed, or the KGB (Soviet secret police) would keep sending body parts, and grabbing kinfolk of the kidnappers. The Russian diplomat was released."

The Western world can learn a thing or to from the Russians eh?Funny, because that sounds almost exactly like this:

terrorism

n : the calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimindation or coercion or instilling fear

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htterr/articles/20060629.aspx

One example:

"Islamic terrorists in Lebanon kidnapped a Russian diplomat. The Russians (then the Soviets, a distinction without much difference in these matters) quickly found out which faction had their guy, kidnapped a relative of one of the kidnappers, and had a body part delivered to the Islamic kidnappers. The message was, release the Russian diplomat unharmed, or the KGB (Soviet secret police) would keep sending body parts, and grabbing kinfolk of the kidnappers. The Russian diplomat was released."

The Western world can learn a thing or to from the Russians eh?

General way for communicating with troublesome groups:

'Give me head - not grief.
If you - by mistake - DO give me grief,
I WILL exterminate your group,
each and every last critter.'

Funny, because that sounds almost exactly like this:
Funny, because that sounds almost exactly like this:


Zitat:
terrorism

n : the calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimindation or coercion or instilling fear


US Govt:
"the unlawful use of -- or threatened use of -- force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives."

Violence cannot be lawful UNLESS it is an Act of State.
This does not mean that each and every Act of State is lawful,
but it does mean that each and every use of violence by not-State is to be repressed with the utmost severity.

but it does mean that each and every use of violence by not-State is to be repressed with the utmost severity.

Like PETA and it's violent arm ALF.

Oh wait....

Like PETA and it's violent arm ALF.

Oh wait....

*dresses in uniform of The Green Howards*
*cocks gun*

waiting...

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htterr/articles/20060629.aspx

One example:

"Islamic terrorists in Lebanon kidnapped a Russian diplomat. The Russians (then the Soviets, a distinction without much difference in these matters) quickly found out which faction had their guy, kidnapped a relative of one of the kidnappers, and had a body part delivered to the Islamic kidnappers. The message was, release the Russian diplomat unharmed, or the KGB (Soviet secret police) would keep sending body parts, and grabbing kinfolk of the kidnappers. The Russian diplomat was released."

The Western world can learn a thing or to from the Russians eh?
Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay, that's a good idea!

Yeah, because that won't breed further hatred and thus more terrorists. Great idea.

They should have just caved in to the demands of the terrorists instead. That would surely be a disincentive. :rolleyes: