NationStates Jolt Archive

COMMENTARY: Is your job on this list? What about the job you're training for, or one you'd like to have?


The Best Jobs in America (http://education.military.com/finding-a-school/best-jobs-in-america)


Most job seekers want a job that will challenge them and maximize their skills and experience. And, many employers are ready to offer qualified job seekers that opportunity.

A new list of “The Best Jobs in America”— created by CNNMoney.com/Money magazine — aims to connect job seekers to the best employment opportunities in America. Most, if not all, all of these careers require applicants to have bachelor’s degree or more.

The original list features 50 jobs, we published the top 35 occupations, their annual salaries and degree requirements. Take a look at the list and see where your job — or prospective job — places.

Here is CNNMoney’s/Money magazine’s list:

1. Software engineer: Bachelor’s degree $80,427
2. College professor: Master’s Degree or Doctorate, $81,491
3. Financial advisor: Bachelor’s degree $122,462
4. Human resources manager: Bachelor’s or Master’s degree $73,731
5. Physician assistant: Bachelor’s or Associate’s degree $75,117
6. Market research analyst: Bachelor’s $82,317
7. Computer/IT analyst: Bachelor’s $83,427
8. Real estate appraiser: Associate’s or Bachelor’s $66,216
9. Pharmacist: Bachelor’s or Master’s $91,998
10. Psychologist: Medical degree $66,049
11. Advertising manager: Bachelor’s or Master’s $107,049
12. Physical therapist: Bachelor’s or Master’s $54,883
13. Technical writer: Bachelor’s or Master’s $57,841
14. Chiropractor: Associate’s, Bachelor’s or Master’s $84,996
15. Medical scientist: Medical degree $70,053
16. Physical scientist: Master’s or Doctorate $80, 213
17. Engineer: Bachelor’s or Master’s $76,100
18. Curriculum developer: Bachelor’s or Master’s $55,793
19. Editor: Bachelor’s or Master’s $78,242
20. Public relations specialist: Bachelor’s or Master’s $84,567
21. Sales manager: Bachelor’s or Master’s,$135,903
22. Optometrist: Medical degree $93,670
23. Property manager: Associate’s or Bachelor’s $78,375
24. Actuary: Bachelor’s or Master’s $81,509
25. Writer: Bachelor’s $60,519
26. Social service manager: Bachelor’s or Master’s $74,584
27. Paralegal: Bachelor’s $61,204
28. Health services manager: Bachelor’s or Master’s $92,211
29. Advertising sales agent: Bachelor’s or Master’s $247, 536
30. Physician/Surgeon: Medical degree $247,536
31. Management analyst: Bachelor’s or Master’s $63, 426
32. Occupational therapist: Bachelor’s or Master’s $51, 973
33. Mental health counselor: Master’s or Medical degree $53, 150
34. Landscape architect: Associate’s, Bachelor’s or Master’s $50, 383
35. Biotechnology research scientist: Master’s of Doctorate $66,393

Notice how pointless thing managers are making assloads of cash even compared to medical or IT professions? This is an excellent run over of how fucked the American pay scheme is.

Notice how pointless thing managers are making assloads of cash even compared to medical or IT professions?
Of course. Didn't you know? Being a tard in an big office makes you more important than you ought to be.

Of course. Didn't you know? Being a tard in an big office makes you more important than you ought to be.
Being a tard in a big office that can make the company pay less for actually skilled workers makes you even more important.

Notice how pointless thing managers are making assloads of cash even compared to medical or IT professions? This is an excellent run over of how fucked the American pay scheme is.
Actually, managerial skills are among the most necessary in any society. It takes a great deal of skill and intellect to manage millions of dollars worth of equipment, vast tracts of real estate, large sums of money, and large groups of people. You should try it sometime. I suspect it's not nearly as "easy" as you seem to think.

Financial advisor is number 3, with six figures and only a bachelor's degree!

Hell yeah, I'll be rolling in the cash once I get out of college! Just wait until all those people start retiring and they need people to manage their investments even more...plus, there will be a shortage of financial advisers which means I'll make even more money.

Financial advisor is number 3, with six figures and only a bachelor's degree!? Hell yeah, I'll be rolling in the cash once I get out of college!
Good luck, dude. When you hit tha big time, I'll hit ya up for a loan. :)

And if that physician is private practice, they are making too much fucking money, I've been to a private practice forever and the only people doing real work in there are the nurses, the doctor is only there to prescribe medicine.

Actually, managerial skills are among the most necessary in any society. It takes a great deal of skill and intellect to manage millions of dollars worth of equipment, vast tracts of real estate, large sums of money, and large groups of people. You should try it sometime. I suspect it's not nearly as "easy" as you seem to think.
Too bad anyone with real managerial skills isn't managing any big corporations.

Good luck, dude. When you hit tha big time, I'll hit ya up for a loan. :)

I'll give you a good rate on it for being an NSer, and maybe I'll manage a portfolio or two for you as well.:cool:

And if that physician is private practice, they are making too much fucking money, I've been to a private practice forever and the only people doing real work in there are the nurses, the doctor is only there to prescribe medicine.
I suppose that depends upon what you mean by "real work."

Why are you so cyincal? People make what they make because there's either high demand for what they do, or their skills are scarce, or both.

Why don't you raise hell about all the millions the Hollyweirdos make, or the top sports figures, or others like them who add no value to society?

I actually qualify for three of those positions:

Engineer, Biotech Researcher, Ph.D academic...

Job offers so far 0

I'll give you a good rate on it for being an NSer, and maybe I'll manage a portfolio or two for you as well.:cool:
Kewl! If I live long enough to contribute a significant amount to the trust fund I just set up, I'll need someone to manage it for me to get the best return on investment so that my grandchildren won't have to wonder where they're going to get the money to go to college. :)

I suppose that depends upon what you mean by "real work."

Why are you so cyincal? People make what they make because there's either high demand for what they do, or their skills are scarce, or both.

Why don't you raise hell about all the millions the Hollyweirdos make, or the top sports figures, or others like them who add no value to society?That's off-topic, nice try at distraction though.
Very often, managers of the large corporations making millions are crap at their job or don't contribute. Because CEOs are a dime a dozen bapparently but are being attracted by offers like they are a c-note an ounce. They get paid ridiculous sums, get ridiculous leave benefits - even if they are fired or only there a handful of months, and that isn't even to mention bonuses.

Too bad anyone with real managerial skills isn't managing any big corporations.

Most major corporations are very well run. The thing is, however, that the best managers also tend to be the least likely to make themselves obvious. They let results speak for themselves rather than be forced to brag or make a show. Mark Hurd and Hector Ruiz are both working wonders at HP and AMD, yet you very rarely hear from them.

I actually qualify for three of those positions:

Engineer, Biotech Researcher, Ph.D academic...

Job offers so far 0
Uh ... they have to know you're out there and what you can do before they'll offer you the big bucks.

Engineer, Biotech Researcher, Ph.D academic...Job offers so far 0

Where are you? Most companies would do anything to hire a person with that kind of experience, and they'd put down the cash to do it. They literally can't find people with those kinds of skills, and they're getting scarcer with each passing year.

The best site for tech jobs is probably Dice.com, IMHO.

That's off-topic, nice try at distraction though.
It's my thread, dude, and I say it's not off topic at all. Please answer the question. :p

Too bad anyone with real managerial skills isn't managing any big corporations.
LMAO! Yeah, it's really sad that all the major corporations aren't making any money and are having to lay off millions of people, eh? Tsk. :rolleyes:

I thought the best job was Super Lotto Millionnaire.

It's my thread, dude, and I say it's not off topic at all. Please answer the question. :p
You didn't bring up athletes, big screen or tv stars, or any other paid for non-productive talent workers. If you wanted to talk about them, you can make a new thread about how you hate them so much, then in the middle you can get angry and go off and watch them on cable tv that you are paying $40 a month for.

Maybe we should get back to what I was saying about physicians. Sure, the ones working in hospitals probably don't get paid enough. But the ones with private practices, I don't know what they do that the nurses don't besides tell you that you should go take these medicines they are prescribing from their favorite drug company benefactor. Maybe the poll shouldn't have mixed physicians and surgeons as they arn't the same thing. It would be better to mix software engineer and IT analyst. One could probably do the others job with little or no other training.

Hell, if this was an all year job I'd be making 37k a year as a software engineer without a degree.

I thought the best job was Super Lotto Millionnaire.
Those "positions" are very, very scarce though. Lotteries are actually a form of tax on people who are poor at math. :D

my husband's job is on the list, but we make less than they say he should, he is on his way back up the payscale though, we got sidetracked after he lost his job in 2003. ;)

You didn't bring up athletes, big screen or tv stars, or any other paid for non-productive talent workers. If you wanted to talk about them, you can make a new thread about how you hate them so much, then in the middle you can get angry and go off and watch them on cable tv that you are paying $40 a month for.

Maybe we should get back to what I was saying about physicians. Sure, the ones working in hospitals probably don't get paid enough. But the ones with private practices, I don't know what they do that the nurses don't besides tell you that you should go take these medicines they are prescribing from their favorite drug company benefactor.
Weaseling out on a legit question again, eh? Tsk. Plus you never answered the question about why you're so cynical. Sigh. What's the world coming to when one so vociferous about so much answers so little? :(

Those "positions" are very, very scarce though. Lotteries are actually a form of tax on people who are poor at math. :D

True.

Okay how about "married to a wealthy, supportive, nymphomaniac supermodel?" That's one I always wanted too.:)

Weaseling out on a legit question again, eh? Tsk.
You mean on another of your classic sidetracks that have nothing to do with the discussion at hand but are solely used to defame people you disagree with?

Okay how about "married to a wealthy, supportive, nymphomaniac supermodel?" That's one I always wanted too
Social leech is the best job.

You mean on another of your classic sidetracks that have nothing to do with the discussion at hand but are solely used to defame people you disagree with?
Asking you a question about something is an attempt to defame you? Heh! Get real, dude. Just answer the question ... or rather, questions. :)

Social leech is the best job.

No way, I'd hate to run for public office. :p

Here is CNNMoney’s/Money magazine’s list:

1. Software engineer: Bachelor’s degree $80,427
2. College professor: Master’s Degree or Doctorate, $81,491
3. Financial advisor: Bachelor’s degree $122,462
4. Human resources manager: Bachelor’s or Master’s degree $73,731
5. Physician assistant: Bachelor’s or Associate’s degree $75,117
6. Market research analyst: Bachelor’s $82,317
7. Computer/IT analyst: Bachelor’s $83,427
8. Real estate appraiser: Associate’s or Bachelor’s $66,216
9. Pharmacist: Bachelor’s or Master’s $91,998
10. Psychologist: Medical degree $66,049
11. Advertising manager: Bachelor’s or Master’s $107,049
12. Physical therapist: Bachelor’s or Master’s $54,883
13. Technical writer: Bachelor’s or Master’s $57,841
14. Chiropractor: Associate’s, Bachelor’s or Master’s $84,996
15. Medical scientist: Medical degree $70,053
16. Physical scientist: Master’s or Doctorate $80, 213
17. Engineer: Bachelor’s or Master’s $76,100
18. Curriculum developer: Bachelor’s or Master’s $55,793
19. Editor: Bachelor’s or Master’s $78,242
20. Public relations specialist: Bachelor’s or Master’s $84,567
21. Sales manager: Bachelor’s or Master’s,$135,903
22. Optometrist: Medical degree $93,670
23. Property manager: Associate’s or Bachelor’s $78,375
24. Actuary: Bachelor’s or Master’s $81,509
25. Writer: Bachelor’s $60,519
26. Social service manager: Bachelor’s or Master’s $74,584
27. Paralegal: Bachelor’s $61,204
28. Health services manager: Bachelor’s or Master’s $92,211
29. Advertising sales agent: Bachelor’s or Master’s $247, 536
30. Physician/Surgeon: Medical degree $247,536
31. Management analyst: Bachelor’s or Master’s $63, 426
32. Occupational therapist: Bachelor’s or Master’s $51, 973
33. Mental health counselor: Master’s or Medical degree $53, 150
34. Landscape architect: Associate’s, Bachelor’s or Master’s $50, 383
35. Biotechnology research scientist: Master’s of Doctorate $66,393
i don't see professional wanker on that list :(

No way, I'd hate to run for public office. :p
All you have to do is denounce unreligious views and play up free gun ownership, then do whatever you want in office then pull the same stunt next election cycle. Easy as rock candy.

i don't see professional wanker on that list :(
People pay you to do that??? OMG! :eek:

Actually, managerial skills are among the most necessary in any society. It takes a great deal of skill and intellect to manage millions of dollars worth of equipment, vast tracts of real estate, large sums of money, and large groups of people. You should try it sometime. I suspect it's not nearly as "easy" as you seem to think.

Problem is, most management position are given to relative or friend.

I remember a teacher in university claiming advancemant in management was 20% skills 80% hand shaking, back then I tougth he was a retard...

All you have to do is denounce unreligious views and play up free gun ownership, then do whatever you want in office then pull the same stunt next election cycle. Easy as rock candy.
More cynicism. Tsk. Ever have anything good and kind and righteous to say, dude?

Problem is, most management position are given to relative or friend.
Not in organizations that want to succeed. Cronyism will get you in serious trouble in places like GE and other well-run organizations.

People pay you to do that??? OMG! :eek:
i got paid to do it this afternoon :D

well, they didn't know i was doing it, per se, but still... ;)


(and what do you think sperm-banks are for? cows don't get paid shit for being milked, but i can get paid ££££ for my 'services' :cool: :p)




edit: TMI? :D

Professional bodily fluid donator.

Erm.. I'm taking C++ classes in school.. I think I'm up there.

Erm.. I'm taking C++ classes in school.. I think I'm up there.
Everyone has to take C++.

Best jobs? How is anything on that list a best job? If by best, you mean boring, average 9 to 5 everyday doing the same thing for the rest of your life, then yes.

The money isnt that good (compared to say my dad and his friends who do real estate devlopment)

and it is boring, lame work that invovles sitting behind a desk. (compared to my low paying, but hella exciting jobs such as wresting drunk slayer fans to the ground...security or grabbing a rifle and running though the forest...soldier)

what I am trying to say, is best is a subjective term. You must state what makes somthing best. because IMHO, on my idea of what makes somthing best, them jobs aint it.

Everyone has to take C++.
.. no..

Not in the highschool I go to anyway..

I go to a school that I just learn programming for half the school year, then back to my regular school.

.. no..

Not in the highschool I go to anyway..

I go to a school that I just learn programming for half the school year, then back to my regular school.
Highschool, pft. You probably will when you get to college.

Well, whatever branch I choose to study further in, it should be up there (I'm currently studying computer programming, software and such, so...), but I'll get back to you in a year or ten.
Highschool, pft. You probably will when you get to college.
Here it's optional, unless you study (one of) two or three different specializations in our college-thingy.

i got paid to do it this afternoon :D

well, they didn't know i was doing it, per se, but still... ;)


(and what do you think sperm-banks are for? cows don't get paid shit for being milked, but i can get paid ££££ for my 'services' :cool: :p)
LMAO! Dude. That's just .... wrong! :D

It's interesting that there are no trades on the list.

LMAO! Dude. That's just .... wrong! :D
hahahaha :p

*notches one up on the 'grossed-out-Eut' board :D

Best jobs? How is anything on that list a best job? If by best, you mean boring, average 9 to 5 everyday doing the same thing for the rest of your life, then yes.

The money isnt that good (compared to say my dad and his friends who do real estate devlopment)

and it is boring, lame work that invovles sitting behind a desk. (compared to my low paying, but hella exciting jobs such as wresting drunk slayer fans to the ground...security or grabbing a rifle and running though the forest...soldier)

what I am trying to say, is best is a subjective term. You must state what makes somthing best. because IMHO, on my idea of what makes somthing best, them jobs aint it.
Apparently, from the looks of the results, one of the primary critera the surveyers used was the average income for holders of each job. "Best" is indeed in the eye of the beholder. :)

hahahaha :p

*notches one up on the 'grossed-out-Eut' board :D
ROFLMAO! You GO, dude! :D

ROFLMAO! You GO, dude! :D
sigged :D

Highschool, pft. You probably will when you get to college.
Hmm..

Do you mean... like in highschool everyone learns excel, and in college they learn C++?

So is the worst job in America still Assistant Crack Whore?

So is the worst job in America still Assistant Crack Whore?
No.. it's a 7/11 employee in Camden :p

Well, I'm GOING to be a mental health counselor. So there! (My current job would be on the list of "reasons to avoid being a Psychology major.")

As a software engineer with a Bachelors, I can't tell you that that list is bullshit unless you get extreemely lucky and are the son of the President of a large corporation or something similar (or perhaps you have been working at Microsoft for 10 years).

I am pretty sure the rest of those salaries are exxagerated too.

1. Software engineer: Bachelor’s degree $80,427
7. Computer/IT analyst: Bachelor’s $83,427
13. Technical writer: Bachelor’s or Master’s $57,841


Bad choices unless you want to live overseas. These jobs will go way down in salary as the global economy kicks in gear.

Why pay them when with a highspeed WAN you can get the same for 1/3 or less elsewhere?

As a software engineer with a Bachelors, I can't tell you that that list is bullshit unless you get extreemely lucky and are the son of the President of a large corporation or something similar (or perhaps you have been working at Microsoft for 10 years).

I am pretty sure the rest of those salaries are exxagerated too.

They are "cheating"

If you are a software engineer with VLSI, ASIC, Mapper background, you can get up to 6 figures easy......

Actually, managerial skills are among the most necessary in any society. It takes a great deal of skill and intellect to manage millions of dollars worth of equipment, vast tracts of real estate, large sums of money, and large groups of people. You should try it sometime. I suspect it's not nearly as "easy" as you seem to think.

Problem is, managers get huge pay even if they suck. And if they suck badly enough they'll be given huge "buy outs." The metaphorical Golden Parachute.

As a software engineer with a Bachelors, I can't tell you that that list is bullshit unless you get extreemely lucky and are the son of the President of a large corporation or something similar (or perhaps you have been working at Microsoft for 10 years).

I am pretty sure the rest of those salaries are exxagerated too.

What really makes the list bullshit is "writer." $60K. Is that averaging in all the interns and such who write for free with Tom Clancy and Stephen King who write for millions?

How do writers make an annual salary?

Bad choices unless you want to live overseas. These jobs will go way down in salary as the global economy kicks in gear.

People have been saying that for 20 years and it never happened, and it never will happen because the trend for salaries of skilled workers is always up as long as their skills are modern and in demand. In fact, more and more companies are starting to repatriate workers or limit their overseas hiring because offshoring is getting too expensive and the quality of workers is falling due to the shortages. Salaries in India and China are soaring because the shortage of workers is driving them up at 25-50% per year, and that money is powering economic growth which in turn pushes salaries higher. Even better, Indian companies are not only hiring at home but in the US and Europe; the demand is so great that.

My advice: Get an education in those fields because we're entering a period of worldwide economic and technological growth that's going to make the late 1990's look stagnant in comparison. Salaries are going to soar and employment is going to boom around the world in almost all skilled occupations.

No.. it's a 7/11 employee in Camden :p

Those two aren't mutually exclusive...

How do writers make an annual salary?
If they are L Frank Baum.

Some one my JAVA teacher knew was so desperate for people with knowledge of some sort of SQL or XML type code that I forget the name of that they were paying $100 an hour.

People have been saying that for 20 years and it never happened, and it never will happen because the trend for salaries of skilled workers is always up as long as their skills are modern and in demand.


The costs of a Global WAN are far less now so it's no longer required to have a skillset in the US.

New Development is happening overseas while the US is changing over to code maintenance and bug repair.

That skill set doesn't pay as much as an engineer.


In fact, more and more companies are starting to repatriate workers or limit their overseas hiring because offshoring is getting too expensive and the quality of workers is falling due to the shortages. Salaries in India and China are soaring because the shortage of workers is driving them up at 25-50% per year, and that money is powering economic growth which in turn pushes salaries higher. Even better, Indian companies are not only hiring at home but in the US and Europe; the demand is so great that.

Still cheaper then the US as their health care and retirement costs are less.

There are other tech centers that are barely touched.

In Egypt, you can get a decent software engineer for $400 US a month. Turkey has a great pool of talent that is cheaper then our US engineers. The former USSR countries have a great pool of talent as well.


My advice: Get an education in those fields because we're entering a period of worldwide economic and technological growth that's going to make the late 1990's look stagnant in comparison. Salaries are going to soar and employment is going to boom around the world in almost all skilled occupations.

Doubtful. Unless you are willing to migrate, you salaries won't be what they were in the 90s. Living standards will go up but salaries will not match the pace.

Fast Global WANs eliminate the need for local RnD.

Many don't share you pollyanna view of the future. Many of the local computer science schools have major drop off in enrollment for locals.

-edit-

Even Bill Gates says he is concerned over the decline in enrollment.....

The costs of a Global WAN are far less now so it's no longer required to have a skillset in the US.

New Development is happening overseas while the US is changing over to code maintenance and bug repair. That skill set doesn't pay as much as anengineer.

The US has to become an innovator rather than just a competitor; we're not holding the edge that we had in the 1980's or early 1990's, and that's making us less attractive than we were back then. The legal and tax codes don't help either, but a lot of it is due to poor decisions by companies, workers, and the government.

There should be no debate over an R&D tax cut or funding for math and science endowments, but there is and it is sinking our educational system; other countries can do the same tasks as we can and can do the same development work, but in order to maintain the kind of growth and influence we want we have to take the technological edge. Cost of labor and benefits don't matter if your workforce is top-notch; companies are still hiring in the US, but there aren't enough workers in fields that are in demand and too many experienced workers are retiring or becoming antiquated.


Still cheaper then the US as their health care and retirement costs are less.

It won't last forever. The demand for workers is giving employees the power to demand Western-sized benefits, and the rise in education is producing more political involvement to demand protections and benefits in the workplace.

There are other tech centers that are barely touched.

In Egypt, you can get a decent software engineer for $400 US a month. Turkey has a great pool of talent that is cheaper then our US engineers. The former USSR countries have a great pool of talent as well.

The golden era of US tech dominance is not going to happen again.

Egypt and Turkey have massive barriers to investment, high inflation, and hostile or unstable governments that make it hard to set up facilities there. The same is true of much of the former USSR, so these places aren't going to be tapped until the governmental barriers are removed.

The US's fall from dominance is self-inflicted. We're not producing the innovators or entrepreneurs who led the tech boom of the 1970's that produced the people who formed the industry in the 1980's and 1990's. We can reverse the decline, but our educational system will have to undergo changes to

Doubtful. Unless you are willing to migrate, you salaries won't be what they were in the 90s. Living standards will go up but salaries will not match the pace.

They're still very good, but in order to avoid the stagnation in income you're going to have to possess a really diversified skillset. It will get better, but that could be 5 or even 10 years in the future.

Fast Global WANs eliminate the need for local RnD.

That's why our workers have to be able to compete on a global scale. Even so, there are a lot of companies that can't afford a WAN and they will provide opportunities to develop our workers in the US so they can compete on a global scale. It's going to be tough, but there is absolutely no reason why the US can't compete with India or China other than our own failure to commit; these countries are losing their cost advantage but are gaining a skill advantage.

We might not be able to compete with cheap labor, but we can compete once that cheap labor is competing solely on its skills rather than its costs.

Many don't share you pollyanna view of the future. Many of the local computer science schools have major drop off in enrollment for locals.....

That's the cause of the problem! Fewer skilled workers in the US not only makes it more expensive to hire here, but also makes it a less attractive place to invest and reduces the chance of a major breakthrough or new company that takes their market by storm. Ironically, by avoiding these classes and skills these students are actually making the problem worse for other students in the field, and it's not going to change unless more students start to get in to tech and R&D occupations.

Actually, I do plan be a college professor. Pwnd.

The US has to become an innovator rather than just a competitor; we're not holding the edge that we had in the 1980's or early 1990's, and that's making us less attractive than we were back then. The legal and tax codes don't help either, but a lot of it is due to poor decisions by companies, workers, and the government.


Innovate? In what?

In order to "correct" what you describe it means a bunch of people are going to get screwed. You can't innovate when people are loosing. You can't get kids to learn a subject there parents know when they are barely making it or have lost their job to job exporting.


There should be no debate over an R&D tax cut

Has to be defined. Else, companies will take the tax cut and continue to set up R&D in other countries.

or funding for math and science endowments, but there is and it is sinking our educational system; other countries can do the same tasks as we can and can do the same development work, but in order to maintain the kind of growth and influence we want we have to take the technological edge.


Cost of labor and benefits don't matter if your workforce is top-notch; companies are still hiring in the US, but there aren't enough workers in fields that are in demand and too many experienced workers are retiring or becoming antiquated.

Antiquated is because nobody can tell they what they need to know.


It won't last forever. The demand for workers is giving employees the power to demand Western-sized benefits, and the rise in education is producing more political involvement to demand protections and benefits in the workplace.

That is not going to be six months time. It took what 10 years before companies start bitching about costs during the 80s?

Again self-fulfiling "doom" not many kids are going to invest in education on the chance they might get a job. When India catches up the labor pool will not be in place here and it spurs another H1B migration.


Egypt and Turkey have massive barriers to investment, high inflation, and hostile or unstable governments that make it hard to set up facilities there. The same is true of much of the former USSR, so these places aren't going to be tapped until the governmental barriers are removed.

Yet they are possible areas and such attitudes can change especially when they see what happens in India and China.


The US's fall from dominance is self-inflicted. We're not producing the innovators or entrepreneurs who led the tech boom of the 1970's that produced the people who formed the industry in the 1980's and 1990's. We can reverse the decline, but our educational system will have to undergo changes to



They're still very good, but in order to avoid the stagnation in income you're going to have to possess a really diversified skillset. It will get better, but that could be 5 or even 10 years in the future.

Many people have diversified skill sets and yet saw their jobs get exported. That is not a safe barrier.


That's why our workers have to be able to compete on a global scale. Even so, there are a lot of companies that can't afford a WAN and they will provide opportunities to develop our workers in the US so they can compete on a global scale. It's going to be tough, but there is absolutely no reason why the US can't compete with India or China other than our own failure to commit; these countries are losing their cost advantage but are gaining a skill advantage.

No. That is why the jobs are exported. You can get the same or lessor skill set for much less elsewhere.

We might not be able to compete with cheap labor, but we can compete once that cheap labor is competing solely on its skills rather than its costs.


So wait for the collapse and they it will get better? So why would I as a prospective CS student want to study that field?


That's the cause of the problem! Fewer skilled workers in the US not only makes it more expensive to hire here, but also makes it a less attractive place to invest and reduces the chance of a major breakthrough or new company that takes their market by storm.

You left out the operative word. Skilled cheap workers. I know a few talented software engineers that can't get their salary around here.

Ironically, by avoiding these classes and skills these students are actually making the problem worse for other students in the field, and it's not going to change unless more students start to get in to tech and R&D occupations.
Yes. That is the problem. However, the doom and gloom perception will keep new students away.

The US has a major problem and has to work on the perception instead of singing "Don't worry; be happy"

As I have said "What new jobs are being created by job exporting?" and the answer is invariably "You know! New jobs! That will require new skills!"

Ok what new skills?

Nobody can answer that yet.....

Black Forrest you’re not thinking Globally. Who cares if Americans are losing jobs? Someone is getting paid, and getting paid a higher salary than they would normally make in their country.

Globally, it all works out. That’s all that really matters.

Black Forrest you’re not thinking Globally. Who cares if Americans are losing jobs? Someone is getting paid, and getting paid a higher salary than they would normally make in their country.

Globally, it all works out. That’s all that really matters.

Well Neo? Considering your usually vitriol pattern for posts, I won't bother offering debate. :)

Well Neo? Considering your usually vitriol pattern for posts, I won't bother offering debate. :)
k:)

k:)

It's mainly because I have a bug that just will not die! I have got people from around the globe scratching their heads over it as well! :)

Nope, it's not on there. Nurse D:.

WE DON'T GET RESPECT. And we do all the work T_T.