NationStates Jolt Archive

I've been thinking about something lately, check this out:

Divided (pre-1871): "Germany" is a leader in culture, science and invention.

United (1871-1945): Germany manages to start and lose two World Wars, leaving itself in ruins.

Divided (1949-1990): Germany is an economic powerhouse, and one of the most technologically advanced nations. Even under the burden of communism, East Germany manages some level of sophistication and economic strength.

United (1990-): Germany is in a economic slump, and is sluggish creatively and culturally.

So, was Germany better off divided?

I've been thinking about something lately, check this out:

Divided (pre-1871): "Germany" is a leader in culture, science and invention.

United (1871-1945): Germany manages to start and lose two World Wars, leaving itself in ruins.

Divided (1949-1990): Germany is an economic powerhouse, and one of the most technologically advanced nations. Even under the burden of communism, East Germany manages some level of sophistication and economic strength.

United (1990-): Germany is in a economic slump, and is sluggish creatively and culturally.

So, was Germany better off divided?

considering that some areas that used to be Germany for different periods of time are not German today, one might argue it is still divided. :rolleyes:

Geramany has a good economy now

right?

Geramany has a good economy now

right?

It used to be better. Particularly in the late 50s and 60s

I've been thinking about something lately, check this out:

Divided (pre-1871): "Germany" is a leader in culture, science and invention.

United (1871-1945): Germany manages to start and lose two World Wars, leaving itself in ruins.

It shoudl be more like


Divided (pre-1871): "Germany" is a leader in culture, science and invention.

United (1871-1814): Germany has a large empire, and is one of the worlds most powerful countries

United (1914-1945): Germany manages to start and lose two World Wars, leaving itself in ruins.

Geramany has a good economy now

right?

It's been slumped since reunification, and'll probably fall to fourth in the world behind China soon.

The united Germany failed not because of Germany itself.

Rather because it was overpowered by the entire world during the Second World War(Soviet Union,AMerica, Britain,Canada, etc)

If Germany had won the World War, even though millions of people would cease to exist, Germany would be the number one world power in the world and the Germans would be living in their "golden" era.

It's been slumped since reunification, and'll probably fall to fourth in the world behind China soon.
oh noes!

only 4th!

United (1871-1814): Germany has a large empire, and is one of the worlds most powerful countries

Fran, in 1914, the British Empire covered a quarter of the globe, while the German Empire consisted of small sausage factory in Tanganyika.

Fran, in 1914, the British Empire covered a quarter of the globe, while the German Empire consisted of small sausage factory in Tanganyika.

umm, no?

They prbly had the 3rd or 4th largest empire

England
France
Russia
Germany

thats prbly how it went

EDIT: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Deutsche_Kolonien.PNG

I've been thinking about something lately, check this out:

Divided (pre-1871): "Germany" is a leader in culture, science and invention.

United (1871-1945): Germany manages to start and lose two World Wars, leaving itself in ruins.

Divided (1949-1990): Germany is an economic powerhouse, and one of the most technologically advanced nations. Even under the burden of communism, East Germany manages some level of sophistication and economic strength.

United (1990-): Germany is in a economic slump, and is sluggish creatively and culturally.

So, was Germany better off divided?


You forgot 2006: Germany's worthless so-called "team" of pathetic losers dares to fail to advance to the final of the World Cup (the one that meant life or death! Or that meant nothing at all! Take your pick!) thus kicking Greater Alemannia into a depression and causing him to whine about anything conceivably (or inconceivably) Germany-related on NS.

umm, no?

They prbly had the 3rd or 4th largest empire

England
France
Russia
Germany

thats prbly how it went

EDIT: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Deutsche_Kolonien.PNG

By imperial standards, that's not particularly large.

Economically better divided, also culturally...not sure about the whole.

You forgot 2006: Germany' worthless so-called "team" of pathetic losers dares to fail to advance to the final of the World Cup (the one that meant life or death! Or that meant nothing at all! Take our pick!) thus kicking Greater Alemannia into a depression and causing him to whine about anything conceivably (or inconceivably) Germany-related on NS.


If you dont like it, dont post on his threads.

Its as simple as that.

What is this british subject constantly whining about? Our economy doesnt affect him in the least.

I wonder about your definition of Germany? Obviously, you are trying to argue that during the divided periods, Germany was better off? I wonder whether that factory worker in 1970s Potsdam or Dresden would agree with you that he was better off then...

Fran, in 1914, the British Empire covered a quarter of the globe, while the German Empire consisted of small sausage factory in Tanganyika.

And yet, that "sausage factory" held its own against the strongest countries in Europe (Britain, France, Russia) for 4 years.

If you dont like it, dont post on his threads.

Its as simple as that.
Apart from the fact that he started the whining by posting on mine, you're absolutely right. Will try to, from now on (have been trying already, but didn't succeed).

It's just that it galls me to no end that the personal frustrations of people who seem to base an awfully big part of their personality on the fact that some of their family line came from Germany keep bringing up anything they can somehow make to relate to this country and mold it into their favourite little pet peeve.
And when they do so because they're apparently acutely depressed because the German team lost a freaking soccer game and after they have already been spreading their surreal wallowing over several threads, yes, it galls me even more, and I hate watching from the sidelines while random people turn the country I live in into some blank screen for whatever they want to project on it - especially when what they project on it is usually offensive and more than a bit scary.

Still, you're right.

^Exactly how i feel.

United... divided... it still doesn't change the fact that Germany's one of the hawtest countries in the world. :cool:

Fran, in 1914, the British Empire covered a quarter of the globe, while the German Empire consisted of small sausage factory in Tanganyika.

In between rants, look up the East African Campaign, 1914-1918. That 'Sausage Factory' managed to hold off British and Colonial forces for four years by using masterful guerilla tactics and mobile warfare.

United... divided... it still doesn't change the fact that Germany's one of the hawtest countries in the world. :cool:
Tell me about it! We got undivided 37°C right here, right now. Blazing hot! http://www.eccentrix.com/members/breezel/emoticons/sun_smiley.gif

United (1871-1945): Germany manages to start and lose two World Wars, leaving itself in ruins.

This is actually misleading, if not flat out incorrect.

World War I was started by the Austro-Hungarian Empire. The trigger was the Serbian assassination of their crown prince, Archduke Ferdinand. Germany only sided with Austria-Hungary because of the treaty they had signed with them at the end of the Austro-Prussian War.

As for World War II - Hitler started that conflict by invading Poland in Sept. 1939. He was born and raised in Vienna, Austria, and only became a naturalized German (meaning he wasn't a true German) after he was exiled from Austria for attempting a military coup of that nation.

Germany was an unwilling victim of both wars. Granted, I think Germany should've learned it's lesson after WWI, but seeing as how Germany was in economic ruins, and there were riots just prior to Hitler's rise to Chancellor (then dictator), I think it's safe to say the German people were desparate for anyone or anything that would help rebuild Germany.

I can also say, without a doubt, that none of my family members participated in WWII, because many of them had either died prior to the start of the war, were too old, were too young or not even born yet.

But, the point is, people need to read up on the history of both World Wars, before saying that Germany started either conflict. Yes, there were circumstances in both cases that led up to both wars. But it takes two to tango, and thus to blame Germany alone for either war, is a bit extreme.

And I'm happy that Germany is united. And it should remain united. Otherwise, everything Germany's ancestors worked for, their sacrifices, would have been for nothing.

Apart from the fact that he started the whining by posting on mine, you're absolutely right. Will try to, from now on (have been trying already, but didn't succeed).

It's just that it galls me to no end that the personal frustrations of people who seem to base an awfully big part of their personality on the fact that some of their family line came from Germany keep bringing up anything they can somehow make to relate to this country and mold it into their favourite little pet peeve.
And when they do so because they're apparently acutely depressed because the German team lost a freaking soccer game and after they have already been spreading their surreal wallowing over several threads, yes, it galls me even more, and I hate watching from the sidelines while random people turn the country I live in into some blank screen for whatever they want to project on it - especially when what they project on it is usually offensive and more than a bit scary.

Still, you're right.

Quoted for emphasis

This is actually misleading if not flat our incorrect.

World War I was started by the Austro-Hungarian Empire. The trigger was the Serbian assassination of their crown prince, Archduke Ferdinand. Germany only sided with Austria-Hungary because of the treaty they had signed with them at the end of the Austro-Prussian War.

As for World War II - Hitler started that conflict by invading Poland in Sept. 1939. He was born and raised in Vienna, Austria, and only became a naturalized German (meaning he wasn't a true German) after he was exiled from Austria for attempting a military coup of that nation.

Germany was an unwilling victim of both wars. Granted, I think Germany should've learned it's lesson after WWI, but seeing as how Germany was in economic ruins, and there were riots just prior to Hitler's rise to Chancellor (then dictator), I think it's safe to say the German people were desparate for anyone or anything that would help rebuild Germany.

I can also say, without a doubt, that none of my family members participated in WWII, because many of them had either died prior to the start of the war, were too old, were too young or not even born yet.

But, the point is, people need to read up on the history of both World Wars, before saying that Germany started either conflict. Yes, there were circumstances in both cases that led up to both wars. But it takes two to tango, and thus to blame Germany alone for either war, is a bit extreme.

And I'm happy that Germany is united. And it should remain united. Otherwise, everything Germany's ancestors worked for, their sacrifices, would have been for nothing.

WWI is at least partly Germany's fault; the leaders were incredibly short sighted to enter the war.

And I don't think everybody worked for unification. Friedrich Wilhelm IV of Prussia specifically rejected the idea, feeling insulted at being offered "a crown from the gutter" (the crown of German Emperor).

In between rants, look up the East African Campaign, 1914-1918. That 'Sausage Factory' managed to hold off British and Colonial forces for four years by using masterful guerilla tactics and mobile warfare.

it might of been different if Allenby had been charge instead of Smuts

Acutally, Wilhelm IV of Prussia was the one that led one of the wars that helped to bring several German provinces into, what was then called, the German Confederation. I believe you may be referring to his being offered the crown of the Holy Roman Empire. I'd have to check to be sure.

Acutally, Wilhelm IV of Prussia was the one that led one of the wars that helped to bring several German provinces into, what was then called, the German Confederation. I believe you may be referring to his being offered the crown of the Holy Roman Empire. I'd have to check to be sure.

I'm talking about Frederick Wilhelm IV. He was offered the throne of a united Germany by the Frankfurt Parliament, but rejected it. Around 1848.

Gutenberg and the printing press... WHAT!!!!!!! :eek:

I'm talking about Frederick Wilhelm IV. He was offered the throne of a united Germany by the Frankfurt Parliament, but rejected it. Around 1848.

Wilhelm IV of Prussia rejected the crown of the German Empire, not because he opposed a unified Germany, but because the position of Emperor he was offered, had lesser powers due to the attempt at establishing a democratic government with the emperor at it's head. So he rejected the crown, and the constitution because of the loss of power. In 1849 actually.

Friedrich Wilhelm IV of Prussia specifically rejected the idea, feeling insulted at being offered "a crown from the gutter" (the crown of German Emperor).

I think you refer to the revolution of 1848, after which the Paulskirche Parlament offered the crown of a yet-to-be-created German Reich to said Fritz Willy 4. He indeed denied it, but not because he didn't want a united Germany, but rather because becoming emperor by election didn't match his (and most of his 'noble' peers) romantic view of an aristocratic Reich.

Other than that, I second WYTYG - go project things on your own country, please.

edit: Tarandella beat me to it. Meh. :D

Wilhelm IV of Prussia rejected the crown of the German Empire, not because he opposed a unified Germany, but because the position of Emperor he was offered, had lesser powers due to the attempt at establishing a democratic government with the emperor at it's head. So he rejected the crown, and the constitution because of the loss of power. In 1849 actually.

I never said opposed, just that he rejected the idea. He was content with divided Germany.

I never said opposed, just that he rejected the idea. He was content with divided Germany.

No he wasn't. He wanted a united Germany, but he wanted to be it's sole leader. He didn't want to share his power with anyone by election.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany - I suggest you read this whole article. It's Germany's history in detail. Maybe you'll learn something about Germany.

I've been thinking about something lately, check this out:Ok.

Divided (pre-1871): "Germany" is a leader in culture, science and invention.Hardly. Major technological advancements weren't occuring until the states became more united.

United (1871-1945): Germany manages to start and lose two World Wars, leaving itself in ruins.Not on its own.

Divided (1949-1990): Germany is an economic powerhouse, and one of the most technologically advanced nations. Even under the burden of communism, East Germany manages some level of sophistication and economic strength.You know nothing of that, it seems. East Germany was far from what communist propaganda proclaimed it to be and the economic slump you're about to mention was in the making under Adenauer.

United (1990-): Germany is in a economic slump, and is sluggish creatively and culturally.

So, was Germany better off divided?Hard to tell, especially if you have no facts to back it up.

No he wasn't. He wanted a united Germany, but he wanted to be it's sole leader. He didn't want to share his power with anyone by election.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany - I suggest you read this whole article. It's Germany's history in detail. Maybe you'll learn something about Germany.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_William_IV_of_Prussia

He was only temporarily interested in unification after the 1848 revolts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_William_IV_of_Prussia

He was only temporarily interested in unification after the 1848 revolts.

For someone who was only "temporarily" interested in unification, he sure made a lot of attempts at it between 1848 and 1850. The only reasons he stopped was because of the lack of powers established by the Constitution that he ordered drawn up at the 1848/1849 National Assembly, and by resistance from the Austrians in 1850.

Freiderich Wilhelm IV of Prussia was clearly *not* temporarily interested in a unified Germany, nor was he content with a divided Germany. If the latter were true, he would *never* have entertained the idea, let alone take the lead in it, to unify Germany.

For someone who was only "temporarily" interested in unification, he sure made a lot of attempts at it between 1848 and 1850. The only reasons he stopped was because of the lack of powers established by the Constitution that he ordered drawn up at the 1848/1849 National Assembly, and by resistance from the Austrians in 1850.

Freiderich Wilhelm IV of Prussia was clearly *not* temporarily interested in a unified Germany, nor was he content with a divided Germany. If the latter were true, he would *never* have entertained the idea, let alone take the lead in it, to unify Germany.

It's debatable of what he actualy WANTED. He politically tried to unity German for a time, but ultimately didn't. Whether or not he was truly dedicated to the idea is arguable.

edit: Tarandella beat me to it. Meh. :D

Sorry! I'll let you have it next time :D

Sorry! I'll let you have it next time :D

No, thanks, you're doing a great job. :)

It's debatable of what he actualy WANTED. He politically tried to unity German for a time, but ultimately didn't. Whether or not he was truly dedicated to the idea is arguable.

Actually, according to the article you posted about him, he did unify German, to a degree. And according to the article I posted, Germany was considered "unified" from 1806 to 1871. It was known as the German Confederation, which consisted of all of present day Germany, northern parts of Poland, the better part of Switzerland, the Sudetenland of the Czech Republic, and the French provinces of Alsace and Lorraine.

According to your article, Wilhelm VI did end up establishing a parlimentarian government, but made sure that the power still resided with the crown, the military, and the aristocracy. But it consisted of two houses, the lower one being the elected house.

So...no, it's not arguable. Wilhelm was king of a united Germany.

deUtScHLanD!!!!111 :eek:

No, thanks, you're doing a great job. :)

Well, I wouldn't bother trying to formalize my Germany citizenship without bothering to learn the history of Germany. Granted, I haven't read all the articles available at Wikipedia yet, but I will get around to it soon enough.

Actually, according to the article you posted about him, he did unify German, to a degree. And according to the article I posted, Germany was considered "unified" from 1806 to 1871. It was known as the German Confederation, which consisted of all of present day Germany, northern parts of Poland, the better part of Switzerland, the Sudetenland of the Czech Republic, and the French provinces of Alsace and Lorraine.

According to your article, Wilhelm VI did end up establishing a parlimentarian government, but made sure that the power still resided with the crown, the military, and the aristocracy. But it consisted of two houses, the lower one being the elected house.

So...no, it's not arguable. Wilhelm was king of a united Germany.

A confederation is like the British Commonwealth. It's not truly a united nation, as each state holds a certain degree of autonomy.

...Germany was considered "unified" from 1806 to 1871. It was known as the German Confederation...

Wouldn't 1815 - 1866 be more correct? Seeing how the Holy Roman Empire dissolved in 1806 to be replaced by either independant kingdoms like Bavaria etc., or states like the Rheinbund, only to be reunited at the Congress of Vienna - or, more correctly, to be re-founded as the German Confederation?
Not to forget the Deutsche Bund dissolved after the war of '66.

A confederation is like the British Commonwealth. It's not truly a united nation, as each state holds a certain degree of autonomy.

If that's true, than technically no nation on this earth that has provinces/states and local governments can be truly considered a nation, because all nations (like the US and Germany) allow a certain level of autonomy on the local, county, and state level of governments. But in the end, they all still have to answer to the Federal/National government.

So, the German Confederation is still a unified nation. And it was still considered a threat by the British and the French, both of whom fought many wars with German provinces and Germany itself, to prevent a unified Germany.

But I think I was incorrect on what parts of Europe were controlled by the German Confederation. I think I mixed that up with the German Empire, which came after the Confederation. I think the parts of Poland weren't added until Germany became an Empire in 1871. Information on Germany's history between 843 and 1806 is a bit sketchy at best. I know that between 843 and 1806, Germany was a part of the Holy Roman Empire, which consisted of the German Confederation and unified Italy. And that, after the fall of the Holy Roman Empire, the German states remained united under Prussia as the German Confederation, which didn't include the northern half of Poland.

Wouldn't 1815 - 1866 be more correct? Seeing how the Holy Roman Empire dissolved in 1806 to be replaced by either independant kingdoms like Bavaria etc., or states like the Rheinbund, only to be reunited at the Congress of Vienna - or, more correctly, to be re-founded as the German Confederation?
Not to forget the Deutsche Bund dissolved after the war of '66.

mmmm...possibly. This might be why my Wikipedia article is tagged for cleanup, as it states the period of 1806 to 1871 as the period of German unification.

Wher the heck do you people all come from that you know so much senseless stuff about german history?

By the way: During the last periods of the 'Holy Roman Empire' it was the 'Holy Roman Empire of German Nation'
and the history of Germany should begin with

a) first naming of the 'germans' by the romans ( so: a whole lot earlier than anything you named)

b) with first naming of germans in a title of a nation: the holy roman empire of german nation (somewhen during the reign of the reign of the merovingians i think)

c) with the definition of person = part of state (at the end of 19th century for many nations, but not for germany!!!)

a divided germany has its pros ands cons, but theres always a part suffering from lack of something...

And: if you really want to divide germany again, how would you do it?
ther could be a north-south division, parting the rich from the poor,
the typical east-west division like before 1990, which would make many people happy because they don't like the 'others', but woulod also cause a total collapse in east-germany because of the unemploymentrate and their lack of young people,
or the division in its 16 states, which would make many people in the world wonder how few they really knew about germany, but how much about bavaria and would cause some states to become very very poor and dependent to other countries...( which germany, united, actually is, although it spends millions and billions on foreign countries):rolleyes:

Okay, first off:

The Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation existed from 843 to 1806. The Merovingian era lasted from 300 CE to 843 CE, so obviously the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation couldn't have coincided with the Merovingian era, but rather marked the end of it. And, as a matter of fact, The Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation is commonly referred to as "The Holy Roman Empire".

Secondly, we're discussing, not German History, but whether or not Germany prospers better united or divided. And since Germany wasn't officially unified until the 19th century, any time before that would not prove whether or not Germany prospered as separate states, because, from 300 CE to 843 CE, the German states were continually under attack by the Franks, who felt that a unified German nation would threaten the balance of power in Europe. So, to say that we should've started this discussion going as far back as to when the Romans first named the Germanic tribes (which I really don't see the relevence here), would be pointless, as we know that prior to 843CE, the German states did not prosper individually, but were under constant attack from either the Romans or the Franks.

as for your point C), I really can't make heads or tales of what you're trying to say, it really makes little sense. The only part of it I do understand is that you're saying by the end of the 19th century, all nations in Europe were unified except for Germany. At least, that's what it sounds. However, you're wrong. The German Empire was formed in 1871, after the successful defeat of the French during the Franco-Prussian war. By then, Prussia had either annexed via treaty, or conquered via war, all of modern day Germany, the Sudetenland of the Czech Republic, the northern-half of Poland, most of Switzerland (specifically the German speaking regions), and the present-day French provinces of Alsace and Lorraine. Germany had made many attempts to include the German speaking areas of Austria, but could never successfully defeat the Austrian Empire to the point where they conceded their German-speaking territories over to the German Empire.

But regardless, Germany *was* unified until 1945, and then reunified in 1990.

So guys, I'm thinking of a three-state solution. What do you prefer, division back into East and West Germany, except East gets all of Berlin and B-W and Bavaria become South Germany, or B-W and Bavaria each become a separate state with the rest becoming North Germany?

Whereyouthinkyougoing
You forgot 2006: Germany' worthless so-called "team" of pathetic losers dares to fail to advance to the final of the World Cup (the one that meant life or death! Or that meant nothing at all! Take our pick!) thus kicking Greater Alemannia into a depression and causing him to whine about anything conceivably (or inconceivably) Germany-related on NS.

That is incredibly unfair. Every team that has competed at this year’s World Cup has given an incredible amount of work and sacrifice. They all should be commended for their sportsmanship and playing. This World Cup has seen teams overcome incredible challenges and rise above expectations to accomplish far more than anything they could have hoped for. Italy lost a coach in a nasty scandal and yet performed brilliantly in an incredible match against Germany where both teams pushed themselves further than most people would consider physically possible in valiant attempts to bring pride and honor to their countries. Cote D’Ivoire, despite fearfully slim chances against stronger teams innumerable indignities committed by a despotic tyrant who once threw them in jail for failing to win a preliminary game, qualified to play in Germany even when virtually no one believed that they would. And look at what has happened in Cote D’Ivoire? For the First time in decades, the civil war that had taken countless lives had halted as the people of Cote D’Ivoire crowded around old battered television stations to watch their team (not “the government’s team” not “the rebel’s team” – Their Team). For once, people in Cote D’Ivoire felt a sense of unity. This German team has gone a long way especially for a team that is so young with a new coach. This team was not expected to even make it to the quarter-finals. Yet they gave everything they had and never gave up. When the team was experiencing some financial hardships, some members even sold personal belongings to keep the team going. And they kept going and playing impressive games against equally impressive teams and performed phenomenally. For the first time in years, Germans were singing their national anthem. Over a million Germans turned out in Berlin in a show of support for the team. And for the last month, it seems that the psychological wall that still, to a degree, separates West and East Germany, started to melt; Germans may find renewed hope for their scarred country to become more than what was hoped for. This team and all of the teams at this World Cup are far from “useless”!

United (1871-1814): Germany has a large empire, and is one of the worlds most powerful countries
I can't believe you've got this far into the thread and no one has asked about this amazing German time machine! :eek:

-snip-
Well I know what you're talking about, WYTYG.:p

So guys, I'm thinking of a three-state solution. What do you prefer, division back into East and West Germany, except East gets all of Berlin and B-W and Bavaria become South Germany, or B-W and Bavaria each become a separate state with the rest becoming North Germany?Drop the notion. For one, I doubt the Bavarians would agree to take BW. Secondly, you are in no position to call for a division of Germany.

Drop the notion. For one, I doubt the Bavarians would agree to take BW. Secondly, you are in no position to call for a division of Germany.

So you prefer B-W, Bavaria and North Germany? I've also toyed with the idea of seceding northern Germany to the Low Countries, France, Poland and Denmark.

Depending on your point of view, Germany has never in it's entire history been united as such. The only thing that kept chnaging were its boundaries and the level of autonomy of its countries.

So you prefer B-W, Bavaria and North Germany? I've also toyed with the idea of seceding northern Germany to the Low Countries, France, Poland and Denmark.

Why divide it at all? You've so far failed to provide evidence that anyone would ever profit from that...

So you prefer B-W, Bavaria and North Germany? I've also toyed with the idea of seceding northern Germany to the Low Countries, France, Poland and Denmark.Makes me wonder what part of "drop the notion" you didn't understand. ;)

It still has the world's third highest GDP.

Drop the notion. For one, I doubt the Bavarians would agree to take BW. Secondly, you are in no position to call for a division of Germany.
:eek: You mean we wouldn't take them, right, Mister? :mad: :p

Apart from that, word to everything you said. Obviously.

:eek: You mean we wouldn't take them, right, Mister? :mad: :p

Apart from that, word to everything you said. Obviously.Well, you know how stuck up the seccessionist Bavarians would be. It's the only German state I've seen posters for a separatist party in. ;)

Why divide it at all? You've so far failed to provide evidence that anyone would ever profit from that...

"The empire, long united, must divide..." - Luo Guanzhong, The Romance of the Three Kingdoms

I just think it's a good time.

You forgot 2006: Germany' worthless so-called "team" of pathetic losers dares to fail to advance to the final of the World Cup (the one that meant life or death! Or that meant nothing at all! Take our pick!) thus kicking Greater Alemannia into a depression and causing him to whine about anything conceivably (or inconceivably) Germany-related on NS.
Absolutely, stark-raving, spot-on, BRILLIANTLY accurate. You managed to post what I'd been thinking and unable to put into words! THANK YOU!!!

Whereyouthinkyougoing


That is incredibly unfair. Every team that has competed at this year’s World Cup has given an incredible amount of work and sacrifice. They all should be commended for their sportsmanship and playing. This World Cup has seen teams overcome incredible challenges and rise above expectations to accomplish far more than anything they could have hoped for. Italy lost a coach in a nasty scandal and yet performed brilliantly in an incredible match against Germany where both teams pushed themselves further than most people would consider physically possible in valiant attempts to bring pride and honor to their countries. Cote D’Ivoire, despite fearfully slim chances against stronger teams innumerable indignities committed by a despotic tyrant who once threw them in jail for failing to win a preliminary game, qualified to play in Germany even when virtually no one believed that they would. And look at what has happened in Cote D’Ivoire? For the First time in decades, the civil war that had taken countless lives had halted as the people of Cote D’Ivoire crowded around old battered television stations to watch their team (not “the government’s team” not “the rebel’s team” – Their Team). For once, people in Cote D’Ivoire felt a sense of unity. This German team has gone a long way especially for a team that is so young with a new coach. This team was not expected to even make it to the quarter-finals. Yet they gave everything they had and never gave up. When the team was experiencing some financial hardships, some members even sold personal belongings to keep the team going. And they kept going and playing impressive games against equally impressive teams and performed phenomenally. For the first time in years, Germans were singing their national anthem. Over a million Germans turned out in Berlin in a show of support for the team. And for the last month, it seems that the psychological wall that still, to a degree, separates West and East Germany, started to melt; Germans may find renewed hope for their scarred country to become more than what was hoped for. This team and all of the teams at this World Cup are far from “useless”!


Oh, oh, but I know! My post you quoted was an attempt to sarcastically distill a few things the OP of this thread had bandied about since the day before on various other soccer threads and, sadly, my attempt came nowhere near success - the actual extent and nature of his remarks were way worse than anything I could attempt to recreate.

Personally, I couldn't agree with you more. :) Especially about Côte d'Ivoire. I was rooting for them before all other teams and was pretty sad to not see them advance further.

Well, you know how stuck up the seccessionist Bavarians would be. It's the only German state I've seen posters for a separatist party in. ;)
Exactly, so why would we even want them. Pffffft. :p

You forgot 2006: Germany' worthless so-called "team" of pathetic losers dares to fail to advance to the final of the World Cup (the one that meant life or death! Or that meant nothing at all! Take our pick!) thus kicking Greater Alemannia into a depression and causing him to whine about anything conceivably (or inconceivably) Germany-related on NS.

Absolutely, stark-raving, spot-on, BRILLIANTLY accurate. You managed to post what I'd been thinking and unable to put into words! THANK YOU!!!

Believe me, you guys are not alone!

"The empire, long united, must divide..." - Luo Guanzhong, The Romance of the Three Kingdoms

I just think it's a good time.Your judgement, however, is slightly skewed by the fact that you don't speak the local language and live on the other side of the world.

Your judgement, however, is slightly skewed by the fact that you don't speak the local language and live on the other side of the world.

Politics transcend boundaries.

Whereyouthinkyougoing


That is incredibly unfair. Every team that has competed at this year’s World Cup has given an incredible amount of work and sacrifice. They all should be commended for their sportsmanship and playing. This World Cup has seen teams overcome incredible challenges and rise above expectations to accomplish far more than anything they could have hoped for. Italy lost a coach in a nasty scandal and yet performed brilliantly in an incredible match against Germany where both teams pushed themselves further than most people would consider physically possible in valiant attempts to bring pride and honor to their countries. Cote D’Ivoire, despite fearfully slim chances against stronger teams innumerable indignities committed by a despotic tyrant who once threw them in jail for failing to win a preliminary game, qualified to play in Germany even when virtually no one believed that they would. And look at what has happened in Cote D’Ivoire? For the First time in decades, the civil war that had taken countless lives had halted as the people of Cote D’Ivoire crowded around old battered television stations to watch their team (not “the government’s team” not “the rebel’s team” – Their Team). For once, people in Cote D’Ivoire felt a sense of unity. This German team has gone a long way especially for a team that is so young with a new coach. This team was not expected to even make it to the quarter-finals. Yet they gave everything they had and never gave up. When the team was experiencing some financial hardships, some members even sold personal belongings to keep the team going. And they kept going and playing impressive games against equally impressive teams and performed phenomenally. For the first time in years, Germans were singing their national anthem. Over a million Germans turned out in Berlin in a show of support for the team. And for the last month, it seems that the psychological wall that still, to a degree, separates West and East Germany, started to melt; Germans may find renewed hope for their scarred country to become more than what was hoped for. This team and all of the teams at this World Cup are far from “useless”!
*adopts Brian Griffin voice* Swinnng and a miss.

Absolutely, stark-raving, spot-on, BRILLIANTLY accurate. You managed to post what I'd been thinking and unable to put into words! THANK YOU!!!Erm... at least your quoting it just now made me finally see all the typos. Great. :p

"The empire, long united, must divide..." - Luo Guanzhong, The Romance of the Three Kingdoms

I just think it's a good time.
And you base that on a quote from a video game? Jeez, I hope that I'm just ignorant of some great treatise that bears that name (which wouldn't surprise me, but still...).

I vas only obaying orders mein herr!!!!!!
vud you like another bratwurst und a schinzel heinrich?
ya ze audi tt is der best automobile on ze autabahn
vud you pass me ze stien and ze pilsner
ya I love ze feeling of ze leiderhosen
vud u like to see my weinerschnizel?????
ach so ze pretzel and einer bier mein herr, danke here hav my volkswagen beetle
ein , zwai , trei.....auf weidersien my hard working , efficient german friends


I forgot the eternal..

FOR YOU TOMMY ZE VAR IS OVER..JAWHOL!!!! RAUS RAUS..!!!!!!

And you base that on a quote from a video game? Jeez, I hope that I'm just ignorant of some great treatise that bears that name (which wouldn't surprise me, but still...).

It's the greatest piece of Chinese literature ever written. So you're ignorant.

Politics transcend boundaries.Local politics don't travel 16,000 km...

Erm... at least your quoting it just now made me finally see all the typos. Great. :p
Perhaps, but typos are nothing to get worked up about. I can look at a misspelling and see that the out-of-place letter is next to the one that should be there. However, spellings like "conshinse" for "conscience" from a native English speaker? Another story. You've nothing to worry about as far as I can see (like that's worth anything!).

Have you noticed the same mockworthy nihilism from ---Russia--- as well in more than one thread (he also loathes to be called "son" in a colloquial fashion)?

It's the greatest piece of Chinese literature ever written. So you're ignorant.
Ah. As I thought. Never heard of it. My bad.

I doubt it's the greatest ever written, I mean, come on -- Sun Tzu, Confucius, even Mao (remembering that greatness can be measured in many ways).

"The empire, long united, must divide..." - Luo Guanzhong, The Romance of the Three Kingdoms

I just think it's a good time.

And you expect us to simply agree because you say so and have a quote by a 14th century Chinese writer that doesn't even refer to the issue at hand?

Rrrrrrrrrright....

Have you noticed the same mockworthy nihilism from ---Russia--- as well in more than one thread (he also loathes to be called "son" in a colloquial fashion)? Oh, sure I have. Although I'd go for "racist asshattery" rather than "nihilism" in that case. :p I don't deal very well with people like that - it exasperates me to no end how they could hold such views and I just get all worked up and frustrated because all I want to do is yell at them and smack them up the head. Softly, of course. <.<

Oh, sure I have. Although I'd go for "racist asshattery" rather than "nihilism" in that case. :p I don't deal very well with people like that - it exasperates me to no end how they could hold such views and I just get all worked up and frustrated because all I want to do is yell at them and smack them up the head. Softly, of course. <.<
Understood and seconded. It's hard to restrain myself and stick to more forum-appropriate remonstrations.

EDIT: "Asshattery" -- either a noun describing the quality of being an asshat OR a place in which one might expect to encounter an asshat (example: Bob Jones University or Fox "News").

"The empire, long united, must divide..." - Luo Guanzhong, The Romance of the Three Kingdoms

I just think it's a good time.

So a pro Han propganda peice written in a time of war, great novel as it was, is justifcation to tear apart a unfied land? The thing is as historically accurate as a Shakespere play and I heard the Water Margin is better, Has there been a mass migreation across Germany and a charilitan leading a mass revolt inside Germany? Have the people starved for decades under cruel rulers? Has Germany been humliated in battle over the last few years by tribes?

China had a rough history, plunging into a civil war often and the Han had run its course, its rulers where tyrants. Germany has democracy now and is nowhere near badly off as the people where then. It was the way with China, the mandate of Heaven and all that.

Also China only had 16 million left when Sun Hao surrendered to Jin. I'm not sure you want Germany to suffer the mass suffering that brought the war or the massacre of the civilians in warfare and famine for 100 years. USA, England have not divided for a long time, they don't look due it anytime soon either so should they be split apart as well?

So a pro Han propganda peice written in a time of war, great novel as it was, is justifcation to tear apart a unfied land? Has ther ebeen a mass migreation across Germany and a charilitan leading a mass revolt inside Germany? Have the people starved for decades under cruel rulers? Has Germany been humliated in battle over the last few years by tribes?

China had a rough history, plunging into a civil war often and the Han had run its course, its rulers where tyrants. Germany has democracy now and is nowhere near badly off as the people where then. It was the way with China, the mandate of Heaven and all that.

Also China only had 16 million left when Sun Hao surrendered to Jin. I'm not sure you want Germany to suffer the mass suffering that brought the war or the massacre of the civilians in warfare and famine for 100 years. USA, England have not divided for a long time, they don't look due it anytime soon either so should they be split apart as well?

Meh. As long as I get my civil war.

Meh. As long as I get my civil war.

Ah so you just want Germany to suffer? Good, I was wondering what your motives for the German team bashing was, now I know. I was very worried that you where being seroius with your comments in some misguided sense of trying to improve Germany by some very worrying ways.

Your comments about the German team are in the same vein right? Please say yes

Ah so you just want Germany to suffer? Good, I was wondering what your motives for the German team bashing was, now I know. I was very worried that you where being seroius with your comments in some misguided sesn of trying to improve Germany

I want to destroy the nation and build a new one.

I want to destroy the nation and build a new one.

You just hate Germany? I can think of no genuine reason to try and provoke a civil war like any in Africa or split a country so we can have a Koera or Vietnam other then hatred.

Germany is a nation with a proud history, yes ok some dark moments but also proud moments, it is at peace, an all to precoius commidety, it has diplomatic weight, it has just started shedding off its dark history, it is efficent in building staduims, rail, running the best World Cup in living memory.

Ok so it has some problems, so does everywhere else.

You just hate Germany? I can think of no genuine reason to try and provoke a civil war like any in Africa or split a country so we can have a Koera or Vietnam other then hatred.

Germany is a nation with a proud history, yes ok some dark moments but also proud moments, it is at peace, an all to precoius commidety, it has diplomatic weight, it has just started shedding off its dark history, it is efficent in building staduims, rail, running the best World Cup in living memory.

Ok so it has some problems, so does everywhere else.

I don't hate it. Just it's society. And it's government.

Aren't you trying to get a German passport? If you hate its society and goverment how about staying away from Germany? Leave it alone, stop insulting it at every turn and everyone wins

Aren't you trying to get a German passport? If you hate its society and goverment how about staying away from Germany? Leave it alone, stop insulting it at every turn and everyone wins

I'm not trying to get a passport. And I'll insult it as much as I want.

why exactly do you hate german society?

why exactly do you hate german society?

Because it's weak. It took them until this WC to LEARN THEIR NATIONAL ANTHEM. Now that it's over, they'll forget it again.

What is this british subject constantly whining about? Our economy doesnt affect him in the least.
Actually, it does. In an era of globalization economic health/illness in one economy has a tremendous effect on all the other economies of the world.

Germany is better off united. Besides the obvious fact that the economic strain that the economy of the BRD is experiencing is due to the absorption of the ill equipped workers of the DDR, the poor infrastructure of the DDR and the excessive regulation of the economy that has continued despite tremendous evidence in favor of the Anglo-Saxon style deregulation. The first two problems will be fixed with time. The third problem will be fixed when the Germans elect a real reformist government.

I'm not trying to get a passport. And I'll insult it as much as I want.

Who am I thinking of then? Sorry

It gets a bit tiring watching you decide that plunging Germany into war and destroiying their football dreams is a good thing. I do hope you get to move to a country you might like

Because it's weak. It took them until this WC to LEARN THEIR NATIONAL ANTHEM. Now that it's over, they'll forget it again

Having your anthem changed becuase a horrible war can do that to a nation and then finding itself divivided then united again. This was the first real chance for Germany to throw off its problems, words like yours do not help.

Having your anthem changed becuase a horrible war can do that to a nation and then finding itself divivided then united again. This was the first real chance for Germany to throw off its problems, words like yours do not help.

Nations that need the approval of others to throw off their problems deserve to be burdened. Nations must solve their own problems.

Nations that need the approval of others to throw off their problems deserve to be burdened. Nations must solve their own problems.

Not that they need approval but they had no real reason to celebrate since they united. The World Cup gave them that reason, sometimes a nation just ened something like that.

What they don't need is constant and unfair insults. Constrcie critisim is good, just saying "So and so can't catch" giving no reasons why such a view point and despite all evidence to the contray is an example of something that isn't helpful. A "Lehman could have been a bit more careful in extra time when coming off his line" then using the example when Italy played the ball forward, Lehamn came too far out but the defence forced the Italian striker to pass, a decent chip would have resulted in a goal is constructive. Using a propganda peice from Ancient China is not helpful, showing good reasons why dividing Germany would be good for the nation would be constructive

Sorry to use a football refrence

Because it's weak. It took them until this WC to LEARN THEIR NATIONAL ANTHEM. Now that it's over, they'll forget it again.

You hate german society because of the lack of knowledge regarding the national anthem??:confused:

ok....

Because it's weak. It took them until this WC to LEARN THEIR NATIONAL ANTHEM. Now that it's over, they'll forget it again.
I really, really shouldn't bother anymore, but I'm drawn back to it like watching a trainwreck in slow motion...

This is the second time I've seen you say that we didn't know our national anthem before the World Cup.

WTF?

The sheer inanity of that statement is enough to boggle anyone's mind.

Of course you might be talking about the fact that in contrast to you, who thought quoting the first verse of the Deutschlandlied in a soccer thread would be a good idea, nevermind (or likely because) it was the only one sung under the Nazis, we actual sing the real national anthem, which would be the third verse. Yeah, sorry about that. Guess we're just not revisionist enough for your rarefied tastes.

I want to destroy the nation and build a new one.
And I'll insult it as much as I want.
Because it's weak. It took them until this WC to LEARN THEIR NATIONAL ANTHEM. Now that it's over, they'll forget it again.

Dude, you're just fucked-up crazy. Go get help.

Or come and visit Germany and trash-talk it like that - I'll even get you your own feeding cup once we've exchanged niceties.

You honestly are the biggest idiot I have encountered so far.

Wenn Dummheit wehtun würde, wärst Du den ganzen Tag am Schreien! *nods*

I want to destroy the nation and build a new one.I've got some good advice for you then:

Lern erstmal Deutsch.

Wenn Dummheit wehtun würde, wärst Du den ganzen Tag am Schreien! *nods*Oder besser noch, wenn Dummheit stinken würde, hättest du keine Freunde... ;)

Oder besser noch, wenn Dummheit stinken würde, hättest du keine Freunde... ;)
Hat er doch so auch nicht. Mit dem geistigen Dünnpfiff den er verbreitet kann er noch froh sein, wenn ihm nicht einer mal die Lichter ausschießt. :p

Nations that need the approval of others to throw off their problems deserve to be burdened. Nations must solve their own problems.
And so must you. NS General isn't the place to flagellate yourself. It really is getting tiresome. We all understood after the first hundred nihilistic posts, we really don't need any more. At least change topics, you've covered this one beyond the dreams of dead-horse-beating.