NationStates Jolt Archive

Turn on CNN! http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/07/04/korea.missile/index.html

Turn on CNN! http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/07/04/korea.missile/index.html

We'll know within a half hour if there are minutemen inbound on the exhaust trail of the NK missile.

Either way, if a nuke does hit I'm set.

im well out of the way, so not worried about my personal safety

but still

Can we bomb them now? Oh please, oh please, oh please, oh please...

Uh, short-range missiles.

Uh, short-range missiles.
they can still SK and Japan
and China

and the others are ready

Uh, short-range missiles.

They finally got to their long-range Taepodong-2, but CNN is claiming the launch failed in mid-air.

Uh, short-range missiles.

Japan
South Korea
China

And most of all, EMP

Maybe they were just trying to sink a Japanese whaling boat.

Imagine the conundrum Greenpeace would be in then. :p

It's only a test missile..

And yes, I'm watching CNN.

Maybe they were just trying to sink a Japanese whaling boat.

Imagine the conundrum Greenpeace would be in then. :p
haha

Can we bomb them now? Oh please, oh please, oh please, oh please...

If you want everyone in and around Seoul to die from the artillery rain, sure, go right on ahead!

:rolleyes:

they can still SK and Japan
and China

and the others are ready


they will not hit China or Japan, however, SK is a big possibility.

If you want everyone in and around Seoul to die from the artillery rain, sure, go right on ahead!

:rolleyes:

That was my Donald Rumsfeld impression.

The removal of the fuel trucks and other auxiliary equipment meant the North Koreans may have finished fueling the missile, said the officials, who did not want to be named because of the sensitivity of the information.

Should the North Koreans have completed the fueling "all they would need to do now is press the button," one of the sources said.


My dad pwns. I told him about the missles and how they also have a long range missle.

<dad> "So what? They have one long range missle that could hit us. We have enough missles to blow them off the face of the planet."

I saw "dongs" flying over my head.....

they will not hit China or Japan, however, SK is a big possibility.

Kim Jon il is nuts. Noone knows exactly WHAT he is thinking.

NK and China don't have a good relationship.

Well, time for us to activate our system defense system. Also a good time to show my equation

Insane ditactor + Nuclear weapons w/ missiles = Screwed

That goes for both N Korea and Iran.

If you want everyone in and around Seoul to die from the artillery rain, sure, go right on ahead!

:rolleyes:

Sounds like a job for the army rangers.

Looks like the large three stage missile failed in mid launch.

Sounds like a job for the army rangers.

To do what, exactly? Take out every single fucking artillery piece aimed at Seoul? This isn't a fucking Rambo film. Those things will be extremely well protected.

To do what, exactly? Take out every single fucking artillery piece aimed at Seoul? This isn't a fucking Rambo film. Those things will be extremely well protected.
indeed, youd need a lot more than rangers to take those out

if North Korea really wants to start a war, they don't have to fire missiles, test or otherwise. Besides, North Korea is all about making threats to make the world listen to them - it's worked for over 50 years. In all honesty, they probably want us to attack them, to "prove" that the West is all corrupt and imperialist, that they were right all along. But that's unlikely, so North Korea will keep dealing the threats and the US will keeping watching like the feeble watchdog it is...

NK and China don't have a good relationship.

NK is China's proxy...cat's paw to be precise.

Kim Jon il is nuts. Noone knows exactly WHAT he is thinking.

NK and China don't have a good relationship.


Except during the Korean war when the Chinese invaded after the UN forces led by the US crossed the 38th parallel and was pushing the communists to the border...yep...bad relationship

Except during the Korean war when the Chinese invaded after the UN forces led by the US crossed the 38th parallel and was pushing the communists to the border...yep...bad relationship
50 years ago

FIFTY

it deteriorated from there

50 years ago

FIFTY

it deteriorated from there

invading North Korea is one good way to make it a good relationship again...

to be honest, I think North Korea just wants the attention - they feel lonely...

Turn on CNN! http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/07/04/korea.missile/index.html





WASHINGTON (CNN) -- North Korea launched a long-range Taepodong-2 missile early Wednesday in an apparently unsuccessful test that failed in flight, a senior State Department official said.


It failed, calm down.

Kim Jon il is nuts. Noone knows exactly WHAT he is thinking.

NK and China don't have a good relationship.
Indeed, they don't. People assume they would automatically because both are communist-style governments, but that doesn't automatically mean a good relationship. After all, just because most European nations have democratic governments doesn't mean they have fantastic relationships with each other, or the U.S. for that matter. The type of government does not ensure good relations. Period.

If you want everyone in and around Seoul to die from the artillery rain, sure, go right on ahead!

:rolleyes:

I've lived in SK before. For 2 1/2 years, non- US military affiliated. I taught English to the SK intelligence officers who spilled more than their fair share of state secrets (proven by innocently mentioning said info to a friend in the NSA, who freaked) because I was 'just an English teacher'... IMO, from what those officers told me, SK is like a rabid dog on a leash. The military is just itching to take out NK. Oil reserves in NK are so low that they could only mobilize their army for roughly one week before they ran out. Seoul would get an artillery barrage, and lots of tanks pouring thru, but the SK military has wonderful plans in place to put a stop to that (which I've been told I can't specify).

So, yes, Seoul would get hit pretty badly, but for all intents and purposes, the SK military headquarters in Shindo'an and of course the good ole U-S-of-A USAF at Club Osan have it covered. Stop worrying, people! Japan and SK will take care of business if it needs to be taken care of.

*depressing muted trombone*

as i predicted the missiles didnt even work. America got in a hissy fit about them being able to strike alaska whilst they didn't even have a functioning weapon delivery system.

I'm hearing talk of FOUR missiles being launched. How can four missiles all fail??

I'm hearing talk of FOUR missiles being launched. How can four missiles all fail??
The US military is calling it a failed missile test, but don't specify if only one failed, or all four, or what failed. Maybe they're just saying that.

I'm hearing talk of FOUR missiles being launched. How can four missiles all fail??

They're North Korean. NK simply doesn't have the money to spend on missiles that actually work. They will have taken a lot of shortcuts in research, design, and manufacture. Not to mention that the missiles were probably based off Soviet designs, which weren't all that great to begin with.

I'm hearing talk of FOUR missiles being launched. How can four missiles all fail??

They didnt all fail, the T2 (long range) failed, the other two, short range, fell in the sea of Japan.

And they talked about a fourth missile (short range), but i havent heard about that one again.

Indeed, they don't. People assume they would automatically because both are communist-style governments, but that doesn't automatically mean a good relationship. After all, just because most European nations have democratic governments doesn't mean they have fantastic relationships with each other, or the U.S. for that matter. The type of government does not ensure good relations. Period.

Like how people assume that China and NK does not have a good relationship because they don't hold joint parades and pat each other on the back :rolleyes:

The earlier overt missile proliferation and later covert missile and nuclear proliferation - both directly from China and indirectly through their other proxy Pakistan, (the Pakistani C-130 planes carrying nuclear parts to NK refueled at PLAF air bases) and not to mention the subsistence of NK by Chinese aid etc...have no bearings of course...

Franberry beat me to it, NVM

Well the good news is that the longest-range missile failed like 40 seconds into launch. Still, the fact it was fired in the 1st place is a bad thing

this is the part that struck me most about the article:

The White House has dismissed that threat as "hypothetical."

Is this the Bush White House we are talking about?

cool:cool:
We'll be fine. Ol' Kim just wants to make sure that the US and/or China don't make him their bitch.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/NPICS1/FIREWORKS_2_L.JPG



He's helping us celebrate!! :D

I'm hearing talk of FOUR missiles being launched. How can four missiles all fail??

This is North Korea. The same country that still produces dry toothbrushes.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/NPICS1/FIREWORKS_2_L.JPG

He's helping us celebrate!! :D

A very large part of me wants the NK Dictator to send a message to Pres. Bush saying, "Happy 4th of July! See our fireworks?"

Ahhh.... why can't the world be like that?

A very large part of me wants the NK Dictator to send a message to Pres. Bush saying, "Happy 4th of July! See our fireworks?"

Ahhh.... why can't the world be like that?

Because that'd be too cool. And totalitarian freaks that kill tens of thousands of their own people and starve millions more are not cool.

I love how we invade a country denying they have weapons, and when a country is FRIKING LAUNCHING THEM we sit back and go "well, an embargo would surely stop them" (Bush: "if they don't stop we'll see how they like being cut off from the rest of the world").

=.=

Aside from the initial shock resulting from the tremendous loss of life, I would have no choice but to laugh my ass off if North Korea attempted to attack its "enemies". They fail miserably at feeding their own people; how the hell could they expect to accomplish anything in a real war?

So.... 5 points for timing, but -500 for execution?

Oh my gooniss grayshiss!

Taepodong.

Tape A Dong.

How am I supposed to take a missle called 'Tape A Dong' seriously?!? :p

Taepodong.

Tape A Dong.

How am I supposed to take a missle called 'Tape A Dong' seriously?!? :p


Hey buddy, this is a taepodong 2

Just wait until Nuclear Nyung puts all his atom bombs on it, then we'll see who's taping his dong...

??

Hey buddy, this is a taepodong 2



Tape a dong to what? Or to who?!? :eek:

I love how we invade a country denying they have weapons, and when a country is FRIKING LAUNCHING THEM we sit back and go "well, an embargo would surely stop them" (Bush: "if they don't stop we'll see how they like being cut off from the rest of the world").

=.=

My thoughts exactly. Everything we accused Saddam's regime of, North Korea and Iran are BLATANTLY doing it.

http://www.filibustercartoons.com/archive.php?id=20021018

i must say that north korea truly baffles me.

we have left them alone(the world that is..japan feeds them,the u.s. has not sought sanctions against them,despite there blatant arrogance to their neighbors real fears)

seems they wanted to send a message..a short range missile(hello south korea)a medium rande missile(hello japan/china) and a long range missile(hello u.s.)

now apparently the long range one only flew for 40 or so seconds,which could mean 2 things,it failed and there technology aint up to par,or the u.s. plinked it with an aegis cruiser.
or third,they self detonated it,just to test the initial launch telemetry.

i consider this a belligerant act on their part,even during the cold war,the u.s./china/britain/ussr/france et al,always notified the world or the worlds intelligence agencies of any launch...but noooo...lil kim just has to rattle his saber,ignore the precedent of the worlds powers behaviours over the last 40 years...

maybe he just wants to get attention,like an addled schoolboy and the world should just ignore him.
or possibly he is around the bend,so to speak.

it is possible for the u.s. to ignore him,but south korea and japan are different stories,what if anything can we(the u.s.)do?
we have defence treaties with them,what if the nut decides to do something stupid?

i truly feel for the north's population,half starved,and if he decides to go out in flames ..they of coarse will suffer,unfair to say the least!

hopefully (and why it has not happened yet escapes me)someone their will either kill the nut,or exile him in a cop or something.
i think the people of his country have suffered enough,to add more to that is terrible.

if he attacks the south or japan,i fear the north,will be devastated,even if we use the smartest of bombs.

the u.s.(my home)should have regime changed that loon before iraq..but that is mho..
i realise they dont have oil,but iraq wasnt about oil,it was about a strategic foot in the arabian peninsula,and a few other things.

but this about north korea...what to do about this total breech of international decorem/ethics..etc.?


By ERIC TALMADGE, Associated Press Writer
11 minutes ago



TOKYO - Defying stern warnings from Washington and Tokyo, North Korea launched a long-range missile Wednesday that may be capable of reaching America, two U.S. officials said. But they said the missile failed after 35 or 40 seconds.

ADVERTISEMENT

The audacious military exercise by the isolated communist nation came as the United States celebrated the Fourth of July holiday and launched the space shuttle Discovery from Cape Canaveral, Fla.

"We are urgently consulting with members of the Security Council," said John Bolton, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations.

The North also fired two other missiles, the State Department said. Initial intelligence indicates that one was a Scud missile and the other a Rodong. The Scuds are short-range and could target South Korea. The Rodong has a range of about 620 miles and could target Japan.

All three landed in the Sea of Japan between Japan and the Korean Peninsula, said the Japanese government.

State Department officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the long-range missile was the Taepodong-2, North Korea's most advanced missile with a range of up to 9,320 miles. Experts believe a Taepodong-2 could reach the United States with a light payload.

The launch came after weeks of speculation that the North was preparing to test the Taepodong-2 from a site on its northeast coast. The preparations had generated stern warnings from the United States and Japan, which had threatened possible economic sanctions in response.

"North Korea has gone ahead with the launch despite international protest," Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Shinzo Abe said. "That is regrettable from the standpoint of Japan's security, the stability of international society, and non-proliferation of weapons of mass destruction."

The missiles all landed hundreds of miles away from Japan and there were no reports the missiles caused damage within Japanese territory, Abe said.

He said the first missile was launched at about 3:30 a.m. Wednesday, or about 2:30 p.m. Tuesday EDT. The two others were launched at bout 4 a.m. and 5 a.m., he said.

If the timing is correct, the North Korean missiles were launched within minutes of Tuesday's liftoff of Discovery, which blasted into orbit from Cape Canaveral in the first U.S. space shuttle launch in a year.

It was not clear which launch was the long-range missile. The Japanese government was unable to confirm the report by U.S. officials that a Taepodong-2 was fired.

Han Song Ryol, deputy chief of North Korea's mission to the U.N. in New York, told The Associated Press in a telephone interview: "We diplomats do not know what the military is doing."

North Korea's missile program is based on Scud technology provided by the former Soviet Union or Egypt, according to American and South Korean officials. North Korea started its Rodong-1 missile project in the late 1980s and test-fired the missile for the first time in 1993.

North Korea had observed a moratorium on long-range missile launches since 1999. It shocked the world in 1998 by firing a Taepodong missile over Japan and into the Pacific Ocean.

On Monday, the North's main news agency quoted an unidentified newspaper analyst as saying Pyongyang was prepared to answer a U.S. military attack with "a relentless annihilating strike and a nuclear war."

The Bush administration responded by saying while it had no intention of attacking, it was determined to protect the United States if North Korea launched a long-range missile.

On Monday, Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns warned North Korea against firing the missile and urged the communist country to return to six-nation talks on its nuclear program.

The six-party talks, suspended by North Korea, involved negotiations by the United States, China, South Korea, Japan and Russia with Pyongyang over the country's nuclear program.

The United States and its allies South Korea and Japan have taken quick steps over the past week to strengthen their missile defenses. Washington and Tokyo are working on a joint missile-defense shield, and South Korea is considering the purchase of American SM-2 defensive missiles for its destroyers.

The U.S. and North Korea have been in a standoff over Pyongyang's nuclear weapons program since 2002. The North claims to have produced nuclear weapons, but that claim has not been publicly verified by outside analysts.

While public information on North Korea's military capabilities is murky, experts doubt that the regime has managed to develop a nuclear warhead small enough to mount on its long-range missiles.

Nonetheless, Lt. Gen. Michael Maples, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, told U.S. lawmakers last week that officials took the potential launch reports seriously and were looking at the full range of capabilities possessed by North Korea.

___

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=490479

Low altitude nukes over Pyongyang, 3am.

seems they wanted to send a message..a short range missile(hello south korea)a medium rande missile(hello japan/china) and a long range missile(hello u.s.)
___

aren't china and North Korea sorta friends?????

1) We laugh at North Korea for their crappy missile.

2) We laugh at all the Americans scared of the crappy missile.

3) We laugh in the face of all the politicians trying to start a scare campaign to secure extra money for whatever defence program provides some money for their constituents.

My dad pwns. I told him about the missles and how they also have a long range missle.

<dad> "So what? They have one long range missle that could hit us. We have enough missles to blow them off the face of the planet."

True. Even if we armed them all with Conventional weapons we could blast them off the map with the sheer amount we have.

aren't china and North Korea sorta friends?????

Sort of-there is a lot of hostility between the two of them.

They wouldn't go to war with each other, but they DON'T like each other.

1) We laugh at North Korea for their crappy missile.

2) We laugh at all the Americans scared of the crappy missile.

3) We laugh in the face of all the politicians trying to start a scare campaign to secure extra money for whatever defence program provides some money for their constituents.


good point,but it does not answer the question...what if they arent just flexing their puny muscles..?

i do agree with most of your assesment though.

im amused by the paranoid belligerance of the US right that the North Koreans would dare test missiles. They have broken no treaty, no laws and like them or not, are as entitled to a defence as the rest of us.

thank christ there was no internet in the 60's or the Russians, a real threat, would have seen how frightned a bunch of schoolyard bullies a section of US thought actually is.

grow up, they arent going to attack the US even if they could

what if they arent just flexing their puny muscles..?
Then they'll get their arses kicked royally. And they know as much. They wanted to prove primarily to their own people how great they are. In reality, with this failed test they have lost a lot of face, and we should take advantage of that.

Anyways, I reckon we should let the South Koreans dictate "our" (ie the West's) policy on North Korea. They can understand them best, and they are the ones who'll bear the most pain if things go wrong.
These things need to be decided in Korea, not in Washington.

CNN is now reporting that they fired SIX missiles. Their webpage still says five, but they broke in and said that it was just confirmed that six were fired. They also said that the long-rang missile may not have failed, but rather North Korea may have been only testing the first phase of the launch. They also need to figure out whether it was aimed at the US or whether they were trying to figure out whether this thing could launch a satellite into orbit.

One "expert" (they seem to find a new "expert" every five minutes) said that this is North Korea's way to try and build a relaitonship with the US. Hey, if they're just trying to celebrate the 4th with us, then good for them! However, it's an odd way of starting a friendship. Maybe they should have just bought some fireworks from China or something... that would have gone over a little better. Although, I guess North Korea doesn't trust China. Every "expert" is saying something different and it's hard to make heads or tails of their guesses.

Oh well, either way, I wish I was a diplomat on the front lines. I would love to get into this line of work one day.

Sigh...


Is it just me, or does the DPRK sometimes act like the little brother begging for attention? Hell, Kim Jong-Il does bear a queasingly similar appearance to my brother.

We'll know within a half hour if there are minutemen inbound on the exhaust trail of the NK missile.

Either way, if a nuke does hit I'm set.

If Truman had listened to MacArthur and bombed the Yalu River bridges, we would have liberated the North as well as the South and we wouldn't have this problem today.

There's no substitute for VICTORY.

All leaders of the world use emotion to control their people and thereby stay in power. One of the strongest emotions is fear. To have fear you need an enemy. If you don't have a natural enemy create one. (Remember the cheering after Reagan invaded Grenada, would have thought we actually defeated an enemy.) If people are going to starve they want that starvation to go toward relieving their fear. It's just like the ration books issued in the World Wars. Leaders make the people part of the team and you don't go against the team. How many times have we in the US heard that we shouldn't critisize a president in a time of war? The reason it isn't working as well is because the US people were asked to "sacrifice" to defeat the enemy by going on vacation and spending money. Might be good for the economy but doesn't build that needed team.

N. Korea is in trouble in every way imaginable. The only way the leaders can keep their position is to unite the people against a common enemy. They have a choice between China, Japan, and the US. China has been a protector. Japan has no real military. The US is the biggest bully in the world and has a history in Korea that makes it the natural selection. Both N. Korea and the US know that there will be no real reaction. But the people of Korea will feel pride and strength and teamwork that will take their minds off their stomachs.

aren't china and North Korea sorta friends?????

not if china tells them,like the iranians to chill out...i would wager that china would drop n/k in a ny minute if it caused a rift in trade with europe or america.

china is pragmatic.and smart.

obviously..nk is not.

think china wants a nucleur armed country on their border..basically...that depends on them for survival?
say china does the logical thing and tells n/k to bugger off..we got to much good shit going...maybe lil kim gets shitty..i doubt anyone wants n/k to have nukes let alone tha ability to deliver them.

the cold war is over..lil kim is trying to hold onto power thru fear..lol..like the dems and repubs here..but it wont last.

the chinese are way to smart to go to bat for that fucking nut...he had a good run,i think it is time for him to go into exile..but that's just me.

Then they'll get their arses kicked royally. And they know as much. They wanted to prove primarily to their own people how great they are. In reality, with this failed test they have lost a lot of face, and we should take advantage of that.

Anyways, I reckon we should let the South Koreans dictate "our" (ie the West's) policy on North Korea. They can understand them best, and they are the ones who'll bear the most pain if things go wrong.
These things need to be decided in Korea, not in Washington.

i have to agree with you yet again...bad habit lately.

great points,but what if they attacked the south,a hypothetical,which was the gist of my point...should we just sit back?

but you are correct in the rational that the south is not only their brethren,but understand them like we could never.

my point was,we have treaties with the south and with japan,if the north goes...stupid..what are we to do..we are allready hated as warmongers..should we sit back and say..oh well?

i actually love your logic,and i am not arguing with you,just curious about a different perspective from mine,we are scared of n/k..irrational yes..but sellable by the left or the right to joe average.

and it will be sold!

great points,but what if they attacked the south,a hypothetical,which was the gist of my point...should we just sit back?
No, obviously not. The US has an alliance with South Korea and with Japan, and they must honour that. And if they ask NATO, I'm sure they'd help too.

The point is moreso that the US shouldn't go in there and make the situation worse. There is no need to attack North Korea, no need for preemptive strikes, and no need for all this fearmongering that was going on in the US the past week or so. Hey, the South Koreans have been living in the range of North Korean missiles for sixty years, and they're still alive, aren't they?

In short: If the North attacks, attack them back. Other than that, just let the South do whatever it is that it does.

For some of us is the omen of terrible things to come, for others is just a provocative action of an eastern power against western culture.

Nonetheless we are facing a terrible threat, we all know that NK will not hesitate to use nuclear weapons in case of war, and of course China will help its ally, so what do you think will happen, i do not dare to write more, because i'm afraid of a new war, no country in the western block is actually prepared to beat China, NK and possibly Russia (though russia sucks) i doubt even the NATO will be able to face this threat.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=490479

Odd that they launched their missiles on the 4th of July... :D Was that their fireworks...?

Either that or ol' Kimmy's missiles suck.

ENOUGH North Korea threads!

ENOUGH North Korea threads!
I made what seems to be ther first one

and I regret it

We should party like crazy until we get nuked. It'll make the going much easier.

From Teh Pedia of Wiki:

[edit]

International Community Response

The test comes on the heels of the Six-party talks between North Korea, China, Japan, Russia, South Korea and the United States.
[edit]

United States

Christopher Hill, assistant U.S. secretary of state, is set to head to the region on Wednesday. National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley described the tests as "provocative behavior." [3]
[edit]

South Korea

The South-Korean Unification Ministry held an emergency security meeting in the morning to determine a response. [4]
[edit]

Japan

Japan is on high-alert after the missile firings. Top Japanese officials, including Chief Cabinet Secretary Shinzo Abe and Defense Agency chief Fukushiro Nukaga met at the prime minister's official residence to discuss a Japanese response.
[edit]

China

China has considered cutting off trade to North Korea in light of the recent missile launches.

NK knows that if they launched nukes at the US (Only capable of reaching Alaska), they will be wiped off the face of the Earth. China, which does a LOT of business with the world, wouldn't aid this rebel nation. They'd lose customers. Russia, Japan, South Korea, and the US would probably gang attack NK.

Taepodong.

Tape A Dong.

How am I supposed to take a missle called 'Tape A Dong' seriously?!? :p

I don't think anyone in the US is going to take that seriously. Besides, it's the Fourth! NK's probably celebrating with us... :D Odd way to celebrate though...

I made what seems to be ther first one

and I regret it

i thought i did?

but nevertheless..whats the fucking point?

those in charge will do what they do,and we will bicker about it.

i wish it would all just go the hell away...and i mean all those in charge that dictate my life,about shit i could care less about.

attack me..then we will have issues...but do you think i give 2 shits what is happenning across the world...and if you didnt get in my yard..we would all get along swimmingly.

i thought i did?

but nevertheless..whats the fucking point?

You: Yesterday, 11:35 PM
Me: Yesterday, 8:40 PM

using Greenwich

but you're right, no point in arguing.

I think the North is just saber rattling, again. Whenever they want something, they do something like this just to impress upon the rest of the world that you have to take them seriously.

Actually it maybe a good sign as they usually pull this kind of stunt right before making concessions, but they have to go through the motions of proving that anything they give up is not do to pressure but because they wanted to and they COULD launch if they really wanted to as well.

It's a small dog barking loudly trying to get the big dogs to pay attention.

No, obviously not. The US has an alliance with South Korea and with Japan, and they must honour that. And if they ask NATO, I'm sure they'd help too.

The point is moreso that the US shouldn't go in there and make the situation worse. There is no need to attack North Korea, no need for preemptive strikes, and no need for all this fearmongering that was going on in the US the past week or so. Hey, the South Koreans have been living in the range of North Korean missiles for sixty years, and they're still alive, aren't they?

In short: If the North attacks, attack them back. Other than that, just let the South do whatever it is that it does.

again,great points,that i agree with.

however,i normally do not wait to be attacked by a belligerent person,i would probably pre empt the attack

that was why i was against the iraq crap..(saddam)he was not belligerant towards the us,nor did he threaten us,n/k is a different situation..ie:we will nuke america if they attack us..but if they just said,we are gonna test a missile for whatever reason,i would not feel as i do..but it seemed to me an aggressive act..but i may be wrong!

and also,dont forget the timing...i actually think the guy is a twit,and timed it to get attention...talk about an attention whore..lol

I made what seems to be ther first one

and I regret it



There was 2 others, I made that post in the 3rd one and all 3 were merged into one thread. My comment wasn't directed at you.

To do what, exactly? Take out every single fucking artillery piece aimed at Seoul? This isn't a fucking Rambo film. Those things will be extremely well protected.

Rangers only need to take out ones closest to heavy air defenses. Cruise missiles, Rocket artillery, and aircraft work on the rest.

Rangers only need to take out ones closest to heavy air defenses. Cruise missiles, Rocket artillery, and aircraft work on the rest.
...and do this before downtown Seoul turns into a bad war movie?

That's realistic.

It failed, calm down.


I wonder how that happened ;)

I wonder how that happened ;)


A crappy missle?

A crappy missle?

Building a sounding rocket (essentially what Ballistic Missiles are) is not an easy thing. Look how many times the American and Soviet rockets blew up before we got it right.

Taepodong.

Tape A Dong.

How am I supposed to take a missle called 'Tape A Dong' seriously?!? :p

I pronounced it as Type O Dong.

The people of Sentinel Island will have a working nuclear missile...hell a working missile before North Korea.

*If you don't know about Sentinel Island, then wiki it.

A crappy missle?


It broke up about two minutes into its flight . Maybe a bad miissile maybe someone made a point .

Letting this Elvis clone play his game is getting very dangerouse..China wants wall mart so they better learn to curb their dog before NK gets curb stomped .
So far there is talk of more " sanctions " .. we will see .

And fucking Iran ? if anyone ever needed a good reason to keep that bunch out of the game ..well here you go .

crazy Mullahs and Elvis clones with nukes .

It broke up about two minutes into its flight . Maybe a bad miissile maybe someone made a point .

Letting this Elvis clone play his game is getting very dangerouse..China wants wall mart so they better learn to curb their dog before NK gets curb stomped .
So far there is talk of more " sanctions " .. we will see .

And fucking Iran ? if anyone ever needed a good reason to keep that bunch out of the game ..well here you go .

crazy Mullahs and Elvis clones with nukes .

The US wants wal-mart too, along with functioning korean, japanese and global economies.

China will curb it's dog when it's good and ready.

I can't believe it...I can look at NK missile bases on Google Earth. Amazing!

NK has been testing missiles for years. Forgive my lack of fear, but that's all we've been getting in the geopolitical news around the US lately, and it's getting tiresome. I'd go on to quote Orwell about how a perpetual state of fear is good for warmongers or something, but I'm sick to the teeth of repeating myself.

Read Barry Glassner's outstanding book The Culture of Fear and relax.

More power to North Korea. They're a gutsy nation.

Japan reports that NK has fired another missile.

More power to North Korea. They're a gutsy nation.

If it ain't a Veto Power,
and it objects to being PWNed,
kill it off.

Lol, those missiles can reach Australia. Cool.

If it ain't a Veto Power,
and it objects to being PWNed,
kill it off.

It's already pwning itself enough, methinks.

If it ain't a Veto Power,
and it objects to being PWNed,
kill it off.

BogMarsh has no Veto power (not a mod). He would object to being ip banned.

ip ban him.

See where that reasoning goes?

Good on, Kim Jong Ill. I mean, after all he’s just creating an independent nuclear deterrent, like Trident. And who would begrudge him that?

It is important that Britain makes sure that we defend our country properly. I believe an independent nuclear deterrent is an essential part of that.

Surely Blair wouldn’t be hypocritical? :p

They've now fired a seventh missile.

I'm curious as to what the Japanese response would be. For many nations a pre-emptive strike would be the answer, but as the Japanese only use their armed forces in defence, their arms seem tied.

Good on, Kim Jong Ill. I mean, after all he’s just creating an independent nuclear deterrent, like Trident. And who would begrudge him that? Surely Blair wouldn’t be hypocritical? :p

Yeah, but Britain is an elightened, god-fearing and democratic utopia. NK is an evil, commie shitole. They don't value freedom like we do.:rolleyes:

Yes, sarcasm IS the lowest form of wit.

Why is the US trying to stop them? We have missiles...hell we actually used atomic bombs...I find it bullshit that the US is acting this way about it. They are more or less saying "Hey! You can't have these weapons, yes we have them and HAVE used them, but you still can't have them!"

Why doesn't anyone want to stop the US?

They've now fired a seventh missile.

I'm curious as to what the Japanese response would be. For many nations a pre-emptive strike would be the answer, but as the Japanese only use their armed forces in defence, their arms seem tied.

That really depends on where those missiles were headed at the time and the type being launched. Would NK risk international pwnage if a missile actually landed on someone? Hardly. Otherwise they would have done it a long time ago.

Saber rattling is what they're doing to force the other nations to give it more weight at the talks when it resumes them.

And make no mistake, it will resume the talks. When everybody is good and rattled. Responding with force isn't exactly what they're looking for, but I believe they'll give enough of a punch to make it not worth it.

Responding in the same way trolls should get responses is better. By ignoring them.

Yeah, but Britain is an elightened, god-fearing and democratic utopia. NK is an evil, commie shitole. They don’t value freedom like we do.:rolleyes:
Exactly. Britain, for example, wouldn’t engage in a debate about further nuclear power stations, then demand another nation stop its nuclear power program; threatening economic sanctions and military intervention. And they certainly wouldn’t fully support a multi-theatre war with the stated aim of promoting democratic values, then just ignore a democratically elected government, simply because they had differing political views.

Would they?

My dad pwns. I told him about the missles and how they also have a long range missle.

<dad> "So what? They have one long range missle that could hit us. We have enough missles to blow them off the face of the planet."

And while your at it you will blow the whole planet...

Exactly. Britain, for example, wouldn’t engage in a debate about further nuclear power stations, then demand another nation stop its nuclear power program; threatening economic sanctions and military intervention. And they certainly wouldn’t fully support a multi-theatre war with the stated aim of promoting democratic values, then just ignore a democratically elected government, simply because they had differing political views.

Would they?

Yes.

New Burmesia: 1
Sarcasm: 0

Hmm.

*Throws a bottle rocket labelled "North Korea" in the White House lawn*

Stop making a fuss about those firecrackers. They're just intended as small change at the negotiation table.

China ought to be persuaded to withdraw its support. Then the NK regime would sing a different song.

Well, time for us to activate our system defense system. Also a good time to show my equation

Insane ditactor + Nuclear weapons w/ missiles = Screwed

That goes for both N Korea and Iran.


Your equation is not proved yet. Do you remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Your equation is not proved yet. Do you remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

And even forgetting that Iran doesn't even have nukes at all.

If Truman had listened to MacArthur and bombed the Yalu River bridges, we would have liberated the North as well as the South and we wouldn't have this problem today.

There's no substitute for VICTORY.


The south wasn't free at all, until the 80's was a typical US supported asian dictatorship, like in Taiwan or South Vietnam. So let's be honest, Korea was never "liberated", it was divided between two areas controlled or "protected" by the two superpowers of that time.

Good on, Kim Jong Ill. I mean, after all he’s just creating an independent nuclear deterrent, like Trident. And who would begrudge him that?



I think the point is, we never starved 2 million of our own people to death just so we could have a few nukes........and the world's 4th ? 3rd? biggest army


El-Presidente Boris

I think the point is, we never starved 2 million of our own people to death just so we could have a few nukes........and the world’s 4th ? 3rd? biggest army
And that’s a good reason to have the most destructive man-made weapons in existence? My point is that Blair/Brown’s arguments for a replacement for Trident don’t add up. Especially with their near-constant reminders that we all live in a changed world; “the rules of the game have changed”. You can’t launch a nuke against home-grown terrorists, and you certainly can’t expect an egomanical dictator nutjob to give up creating nukes while we contemplate renewing ours.

if North Korea really wants to start a war, they don't have to fire missiles, test or otherwise. Besides, North Korea is all about making threats to make the world listen to them - it's worked for over 50 years. In all honesty, they probably want us to attack them, to "prove" that the West is all corrupt and imperialist, that they were right all along. But that's unlikely, so North Korea will keep dealing the threats and the US will keeping watching like the feeble watchdog it is...

We just need to turn to him calmly, and say, "Shut up and Sit down, Moron"

Seven missiles now. What in fook's name is he doing?

Seven missiles now. What in fook's name is he doing?
Trying to get everyone's attention. And doing it quite well, really.

Whats going on?

Ummm...they are testing new missiles...dosn't everyone? I don't think people just use missiles they never tested.

Whats going on?

Ummm...they are testing new missiles...dosn't everyone? I don't think people just use missiles they never tested.

What scares everyone is when they don't trust a leader's ability to not use the missiles and warheads in an offensive strike. An arbitrary judgement, yes, but it makes a difference.

for fuck sake leave north korea alone. if they want to make nukes then let them. we did and they should have the right to as well.

the whole agression by usa is just pissing them off. worrying the rest of the world. and destroying the relationships which are beginiging to be remade with china and south korea.

south korea has made great progress in getting friendly with north korea. they have been allowed to establish some software companies in the north and they have been increasing the trade as well. if we leave south korea and china to it then they will slowly pull the north out of its terrible state (when kim jong dies) but tbh its better late than err...well war

in a recent survey in south korea as to who they considered the greatest threat to south korea 33% voted for north korea as oppose to 39% who voted for usa

Seven missiles now. What in fook's name is he doing?
Running tests?

"won't the 'sploding hurt?" - GIR

Yeah Ww3! The Apocalypse! Whooo! Hell Yeah! lets All Get Drunk!

Kim Jon il is nuts. Noone knows exactly WHAT he is thinking.

NK and China don't have a good relationship.

Here's the real problem: NK has fired Nodong and Taepodong missiles. So, Kim Jong-il is obsessed with dongs but has no dong! :p :p :p

On top of that, he's a fat orangutan who wears platform shoes and has a dead rat on his head :sniper:

The south wasn't free at all, until the 80's was a typical US supported asian dictatorship, like in Taiwan or South Vietnam. So let's be honest, Korea was never "liberated", it was divided between two areas controlled or "protected" by the two superpowers of that time.

"Liberated from communism" is a necessary condition for further reform. Equating NK and SK just shows that you have a broken moral compass.

I see Dr EVil masturbating while while firing missles off in every direction while mini me runs around histericaly screaming " the plane " boss its de plane ! You missed de plane !

while everwhere else in his kingdom starving munchkins search for lollypop land .

"Liberated from communism" is a necessary condition for further reform. Equating NK and SK just shows that you have a broken moral compass.

That dude thinks you take the temperature with a compass .

Look how afraid the Americans our....I wonder how scared people feel in China,South Korea,Japan,Russia.

Though I dont know why russia hadnt said anything? Mybe their planning an attack on the west with Iran and they know about this, Mybe this is only to destract people from Iran?:eek:

Look how afraid the Americans our....I wonder how scared people feel in China,South Korea,Japan,Russia.

Though I dont know why russia hadnt said anything? Mybe their planning an attack on the west with Iran and they know about this, Mybe this is only to destract people from Iran?:eek:

Ummm I'm American..I am drinking tea and laughing about munchkins masturbating with missiles .

Why are you afraid ?

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/jtkwon/orearry.jpg

team america kicks ass

How long before Mr. Kim does something stupid with his new playthings?

4 July 2006

PYONGYANG, North Korea -- After vowing a wave of "annihilating retaliation" should they make any militaristic overtures, the rogue nation of North Korea launched 6 ballistic missiles into the Sea of Japan. Delivering a decisive blast of shrapnel, followed by a shock wave said to be heard for several miles, the North Korean government certified that they had detonated as planned, and called the attack a "stunning show of power for our Great Leader."

While tensions had been high between the Sea of Japan and North Korea for some time due to a disagreement on its name, relations became increasingly strained after a Taep'o-dong missile was fired into the sea in 1998. Condemned by the world community, many hoped that a shaky moratorium on missile launches would hold. But North Korea, concerned with being sidelined by Iran, decided to steal the headlines back by reigniting the conflict with the Sea of Japan.

After the devastating Taep'o-dong 2 ICBM impacted the sea, its spokesman announced that it has unconditionally surrendered to the nation of North Korea, and that it would be officially known as the Korean Sea. "We just wish that North Korea would have used peaceful means, because really, who the hell cares what the sea is called?"

With the successful firing of missiles, it is likely that North Korea will have more cards to play at the negotiating table. White House Press Secretary Tony Snow stated "This provocative behavior has certainly caused us to rethink our policy of multilateral talks, and it is likely that President Bush himself will go to North Korea to initiate a personal dialogue."

Stunned by the success, sporatic state sponsored rallies erupted throughout North Korea, trumpeting the accomplishment. One passerby commented "10 years ago I was starving. I am still starving today, but now atleast I know that the money taken from me has gone towards securing our Nation's future!"


SOURCE: UNNews (http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/UnNews:Sea_of_Japan_Surrenders_to_North_Korea)

How long before Mr. Kim does something stupid with his new playthings?
He's not going to do anything. He cares too much about his lifestyle as absolute ruler of North Korea to do something that might make him ruler of a radioactive wasteland.

Interesting...there is nothing about the tests on the KCNA (http://www.kcna.co.jp/index-e.htm) website.

He's not going to do anything. He cares too much about his lifestyle as absolute ruler of North Korea to do something that might make him ruler of a radioactive wasteland.

I was thinking somewhere along the lines of firing one right over South Korea or Japan.

:confused: why is everybody getting so worried and worked up about korea firing missiles? i don't think it will hit anybody, probably just land in the sea or somewhere very remote where no one lives

:confused: why is everybody getting so worried and worked up about korea firing missiles? i don't think it will hit anybody, probably just land in the sea or somewhere very remote where no one lives

It's the principle... a similar reason to why everyone got worked up about the Soviet Union having nuclear missiles during the Cold War (IE: Your enemy can blow the crap out of you just as much as you can out of them).

The problem is that whilst nations such as the US, UK, France etc. would (probably :p ) only use their nukes in retaliation (such as if they were nuked first, or their nation was invaded), North Korea has threatened to launch them as a first strike. Dictatorships are inherently more unstable and unpredictable than democracies. If Bush, Blair, Chirac etc. launched a nuke they'd need a damn good reason to do it or they'd probably be hauled in front of a court and tried. Kim Jong-Il can do whatever he pleases, and no one in NK can stop him. They give him a success at home, too, so he can brag to the people he oppresses. Dictatorships tend to require an enemy, a scapegoat, on which the dictator can pin all the blame for their people's misery. North Korea currently uses the US, and the North Korean people are so cut off from the outside world that they can't think any differently. The state feeds them so many lies it's hard for them to know what's true and what isn't due to having no other sources of information. It wouldn't suprise me if the North Korean propaganda machine is saying how these missiles went over Japan and deeply scared the US etc., because no one in North Korea can prove it's false.

And I see people saying that NK, Iran etc. are developing nukes because other nations have them. Would you honestly scrap your nuclear programmes and take it on good faith that these nations would disarm? I wouldn't. I think it would be very irresponsible if you did. If you think we are wrong to stand up to people like Kim Jong-Il, then by that logic we were wrong to stand up to the Soviets, Hitler, the Kaiser, Napoleon and all the other dictators who wanted to dominate other nations and oppress their people.

i think some of you are completely missing the point. we don't want korea to "go right ahead". this should be a one off ocassion and nothing else. no one should die and especially not everyone in seoul

The world no longer "stands up" to dictators, except on paper.

The UN will not be doing anything more than writing a letter explaining just how "angry" they are, as any further action, including sanctions, will be vetoed by Russia and China.

Nations which go after "dictators" are chastised and criticized and verbally abused nowadays.

I think it's a good plan that the US has - build defensive systems to intercept missiles, and have several different types in an overlapping overall system that works against small numbers of missiles from places like North Korea.

We should actually use their test firings as target practice.

The only problem I see is that it's obvious that Kim Jong-il is trying to get attention. If eventually his missiles are seen as impotent, and everyone goes back to business as usual, he will try something more dramatic to get attention.

Try and imagine what a lunatic would think is "more dramatic" than firing missiles in the direction of Japan.

Meh, the venezuelan goverment stated yesterday that it supported the rightful launch of missiles by North Korea. What do you think about that?

The world no longer "stands up" to dictators, except on paper.


Well considering the USSR and the US propped up nearly all dictators in the second half of the 20th C, who was left to stand up to them?

Meh, the venezuelan goverment stated yesterday that it supported the rightful launch of missiles by North Korea. What do you think about that?

Then I'm sure that Chavez doesn't mind other countries firing missiles at Venezuela.

Well considering the USSR and the US propped up nearly all dictators in the second half of the 20th C, who was left to stand up to them?

Well, that was then. This is now.

I don't see any other Western democracies standing up to dictators, in any sense except on paper.

Well, that was then. This is now.

I don't see any other Western democracies standing up to dictators, in any sense except on paper.

Like who? Kim? They have nukes-- no one will stand up to them, not even the United States.

Mugabe? Kabila? Gadaffi?

No one gives a shit about Africa.

The world no longer "stands up" to dictators, except on paper.

The UN will not be doing anything more than writing a letter explaining just how "angry" they are, as any further action, including sanctions, will be vetoed by Russia and China.

Nations which go after "dictators" are chastised and criticized and verbally abused nowadays.

I think it's a good plan that the US has - build defensive systems to intercept missiles, and have several different types in an overlapping overall system that works against small numbers of missiles from places like North Korea.

We should actually use their test firings as target practice.

The only problem I see is that it's obvious that Kim Jong-il is trying to get attention. If eventually his missiles are seen as impotent, and everyone goes back to business as usual, he will try something more dramatic to get attention.

Try and imagine what a lunatic would think is "more dramatic" than firing missiles in the direction of Japan.

And have a hellfire missile fly up his ass in return .:D

THERE A BUNCH OF CRAZY RETARDS IF THEY THINK THEY CAN KILL US I AM WILLING TO GO IN THERE TELL THESE COMMIES WHAT I THINK



THIS IS TO KIM JONG ILL:upyours:

I Am Ed Off By The Russian Goverment You Know There Just So Willing To Give Anyone Who S The Us Or Uk Nukes

Plus Putin Is Ex Kgb

Then I'm sure that Chavez doesn't mind other countries firing missiles at Venezuela.

No!, that would be an imperialistic aggression against the free people of the Third World!

Like who? Kim? They have nukes-- no one will stand up to them, not even the United States.

Mugabe? Kabila? Gadaffi?

No one gives a shit about Africa.

Officially, Gaddafi is everyone's best friend since he gave over his nuke program and paid restitution for bombing an airliner.

The EU and US love him, and love the low sulfur crude that Libya pumps out.

Officially, Gaddafi is everyone's best friend since he gave over his nuke program and paid restitution for bombing an airliner.

The EU and US love him, and love the low sulfur crude that Libya pumps out.
Fuck the EU and US; the guy is still a dictator.

My point still stands. There is no ''no one cares that dictators are still in power these days'' sentiment any more than there was 50 years ago.

Unless they irritate the big powers they are left in peace- just like always. Nothing has changed in that respect.

Well, that was then. This is now.

I don't see any other Western democracies standing up to dictators, in any sense except on paper.
The US has stood up only to ONE dictator, and that because that's what was convenient to its interests, not for reasons of policy.

Fuck the EU and US; the guy is still a dictator.

My point still stands. There is no ''no one cares that dictators are still in power these days'' sentiment any more than there was 50 years ago.

Unless they irritate the big powers they are left in peace- just like always. Nothing has changed in that respect.

Shows you how much the non-big powers care, too. They don't seem to be pooling resources and making alliances to stop it either.

No one cares, period.

The US has stood up only to ONE dictator, and that because that's what was convenient to its interests, not for reasons of policy.

I guess it was convenient to stand up to Tojo and Hitler, too.

The US has stood up only to ONE dictator, and that because that's what was convenient to its interests, not for reasons of policy.

Noriega, Pinochet...Oops, already two of them. I'm sure I can find more if I press my mind.

I guess it was convenient to stand up to Tojo and Hitler, too.
You were talking about the contemporary period, I'm talking about the contemporary period. Technically Tojo was not a dictator, he wasn't even the leader of his country. And yes, the US stood up to them because of national convenience, why do you think they stayed out of the war for so long?

The US doesn's stand up to dictators as a matter of policy, it will support those they find convenient to their interests and oppose those who aren't. They will even go to war to defend the dictators they like (Ngo Dinh Diem) and offer them a way out when it's not possible to keep them in power any more (Marcos, Batista, Duvalier). Not to mention help them get into power (Pinochet, Castillo) and support (Stroessner, Trujillo, Suharto).

So, the idea that the US stands up to dictators is frankly laughable.

Miss Pacman Lover
you are completely wrong and silly. what North Korea has done is wrong. of course it is.

I guess it was convenient to stand up to Tojo and Hitler, too.
Like getting sneak attacked then having war declared on us?

Pinochet
Didn't the US put Pinochet in power?

How long before Mr. Kim does something stupid with his new playthings?

He already has...

The Taepodong-2 missile was aimed at Hawaii.

http://in.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-07-07T053653Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_India-258540-1.xml

Didn't the US put Pinochet in power?

Exactly my point, same with Noriega

Exactly my point, same with Noriega


Cold war politics were a real bitch now were they not ?

You had those who had Soviet support puppets and dictators vs the puppets and dictators that chose US support .

What did the people chose ?

You had those who had Soviet support puppets and dictators vs the puppets and dictators that chose US support .

What did the people chose ?
Nothing, they didn't let them. That's the whole point.

Nothing, they didn't let them. That's the whole point.

And a wise lesson too.
*looks at US*
Keep up good work.

Cold war politics were a real bitch now were they not ?

You had those who had Soviet support puppets and dictators vs the puppets and dictators that chose US support .

What did the people chose ?

None?

OH boo hoo

Just because NK has missils that can hit the U.S.A THANK GOD:D

now they are shitting them self just leave them alone they are no threat

I hope they bomb the U.S because this fat assholes need to be tought A lesson and if they do China will soppot them I HOPE THEY KILL BUSH

HAHAHA

The best thing that we can do is _nothing_. Let the Glorious Leader, or whatever the little munchkin calls himself, shoot all their missiles. This is just an attempt to get the United States to give the PRK something else. The ploy worked time after time with the previous administration, but there's no reason to continue in this path.

Once the missiles are gone, Kim will have to figure out how to replace them. Then, maybe, some serious diplomacy can take place. On the other hand, if he starts lobbing artillery shells into Seoul, there's no room for diplomacy.

The best thing that we can do is _nothing_. Let the Glorious Leader, or whatever the little munchkin calls himself, shoot all their missiles. This is just an attempt to get the United States to give the PRK something else. The ploy worked time after time with the previous administration, but there's no reason to continue in this path.

Once the missiles are gone, Kim will have to figure out how to replace them. Then, maybe, some serious diplomacy can take place. On the other hand, if he starts lobbing artillery shells into Seoul, there's no room for diplomacy.


Especially since we have three different types of antiballistic missile system in place now, one of which has worked in combat against multiple missile firings (PAC-3 during the recent invasion of Iraq).

He can fire all the missiles he likes at the US - he never has more than a handful, and we seem to be on top of it.

Not that the missiles he fires seem to get anywhere.

Wow, I didn't realise this happened.

I should really keep an eye on the news more.

OH boo hoo

Just because NK has missils that can hit the U.S.A THANK GOD:D

now they are shitting them self just leave them alone they are no threat

I hope they bomb the U.S because this fat assholes need to be tought A lesson and if they do China will soppot them I HOPE THEY KILL BUSH

HAHAHA

1) You really need to learn punctuation and spelling.

2) If a North Korean missile did somehow hit wherever the President is, you do realize that the US would launch and turn NK into a parking lot.
Now you have Dick Cheney running the US, and that's SO much better, right?

While he's at it, he'll nuke Iran just to prove a point and head THEM off from a first strike.

...congrats. You got your pound of flesh: killing a President you don't like who has less than half his second term left in office. Cost: about 30-50 million people.

Glad you're happy, though! :rolleyes: