NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006300617,00.html

A SHOCKING 400,000 British Muslims are sympathetic to “violent jihad around the world,” spy agency MI5 revealed last night.

The figure contains 1,200 fanatics who are actively engaged in an Islamic “holy war” at home or abroad.

And al-Qaeda sympathisers have attempted to infiltrate the security agency — with a number being caught, the Home Office disclosed.

The disturbing statistics emerged from research conducted across Britain by MI5.

Scotland Yard’s anti-terror chief Peter Clarke backed up the findings yesterday.

He reported that growing numbers of young British Muslims are turning to Islamic terrorism. And they are getting younger and younger.

The top cop spoke as it was revealed one of the two British soldiers killed in a Taliban assault in Afghanistan is a Pakistani-born Muslim — Lance Corporal Jabron Hashmi.

Deputy Assistant Commissioner Clarke said his branch has SEVENTY current investigations on the go. These are in London, around Britain and across the world.

And there are SIXTY people awaiting trial in the UK for terrorism-related offences.

He added: “This is unprecedented and the flow of new cases shows no sign of abating — if anything it is accelerating.”

Mr Clarke added there were two other factors “even more alarming” than the gravity of allegations facing the defendants.

He said: “The first is the majority relate to the activities of British citizens against their fellow countrymen. Second is the extreme youth of some of those charged.”

Mr Clarke said police had disrupted three or possibly four attacks since the London bombings — a year ago on Friday.

He added that Britons were being kept in the dark about the true threat from al-Qaeda fanatics. He said: “It is a very, very concerning intelligence picture. It sometimes feels as if the public are not well informed about the reality of the threat.”

The anti-terror chief said his teams were still pursuing suspects who may have supported the July 7 bombers, who killed 52.

A poll in today’s Times shows 13 per cent of Britain’s 1.6 million Muslims think the four 7/7 suicide bombers should be thought of as “martyrs”. But 56 per cent say the Government is not doing enough to fight extremism.

Wow. England sure has a big, BIG problem if this is true.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006300617,00.html



Wow. England sure has a big, BIG problem if this is true.

Its the Sun.

It's a nice, big, round number though, innit?

The Sun? Yes thats a very trustworthy newspaper....

Its the Sun.

Super soaraway Sun spots Jihadists SHOCKAH!!!

Its the Sun.

Point. Checked BBC, found this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5142908.stm

MI5 believes, from polls, that around 400,000 people in the UK are "sympathetic to violent jihad around the world", said Frank Gardner [BBC security correspondent].

400,000...is that about the number of Muslims in Britain? Oh wait...there are about 1.5 million...so a third of them are probably within some sort of 'terrorist sympathiser' age range...

Har. Just where and how did they come up with that statistic?

The article doesn't specify, other than saying the statistic came from MI5 the spy agency.

The only statistics actually given allude to a poll that has nothing to do with "sympathetic to violent jihad around the world."

poll in today’s Times shows 13 per cent of Britain’s 1.6 million Muslims think the four 7/7 suicide bombers should be thought of as “martyrs”. But 56 per cent say the Government is not doing enough to fight extremism.

"thinking of a suicide bomber as a martyr" =/= "sympathetic to violent jihad around the world."

But hey, it was a while since we had a Muslim bashing thread. Several days, seemed like. Nothing lasts forever eh?

Point. Checked BBC, found this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5142908.stm
Yeah? And?
That thread was done already

Its still the Sun.
Page 1: Freddie Star ate my Hamster.
Page 2: Crouch Potato misses peno but 'loves me all night long' says ex.
Page 3: Naked Woman.
Page 4: 400,000 Muslims hate Britain.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz................

400,000...is that about the number of Muslims in Britain? Oh wait...there are about 1.5 million...so a third of them are probably within some sort of 'terrorist sympathiser' age range...
according to this (http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/profiles/rank/ewmuslim.asp) the number for England and Wales is 1,546,626 :)

(you were surprisingly right :eek: )

Anyone who sympathises with terrorists needs to get a job. But then again, you can say that about people that read the sun as well.

Well I sympathise with the people who shoot terrorist and give them 500 lb guided curb stomps..so I guess we are even .:D

Well I sympathise with the people who shoot terrorist and give them 500 lb guided curb stomps..so I guess we are even .:D
I disagree with your sig *cough*

So what? Hundreds of thousands of Americans supported terrorism too. Whats the big deal with this? Is it meant to be news to people?

"thinking of a suicide bomber as a martyr" =/= "sympathetic to violent jihad around the world."

But hey, it was a while since we had a Muslim bashing thread. Several days, seemed like. Nothing lasts forever eh?

:rolleyes:

errrrr...since suicide is haraam in Islam, if a person is willing to think that the 7/7 suicide bomber as a martyr, it IS equal to being sympathetic to violent jihad around the world.

The poll results are nothing new or surprising for me. Check out which nationality makes the most of the muslim population in UK. They were openly collecting funds for jihad in Kashmir and Bosnia long before 9/11 and Iraq and also recruiting for jihad.

7/7 suicide bombers were not even the first suicide bombers of UK. Mohammed Bilal (aka Abdul Bhai), 24, British citizen from Manchester blew himself up in Christmas eve 2000 in Kashmir.

:rolleyes:

errrrr...since suicide is haraam in Islam, if a person is willing to think that the 7/7 suicide bomber as a martyr, it IS equal to being sympathetic to violent jihad around the world.

The poll results are nothing new or surprising for me. Check out which nationality makes the most of the muslim population in UK. They were openly collecting funds for jihad in Kashmir and Bosnia long before 9/11 and Iraq and also recruiting for jihad.

7/7 suicide bombers were not even the first suicide bombers of UK. Mohammed Bilal (aka Abdul Bhai), 24, British citizen from Manchester blew himself up in Christmas eve 2000 in Kashmir.

Trostia never misses an opportunity to sweep under the rug inconvenient facts that get in the way of his blind devotion to "Islam is a religion of peace." It's always "out of context" or "they're not real Muslims" or "most Muslims aren't [you name it]" or "Christians do it too."

Arghh, I hate statistics. Anyone seen how the data was collected? How were the questions phrased? Who commisioned the survey?

:rolleyes:

errrrr...since suicide is haraam in Islam, if a person is willing to think that the 7/7 suicide bomber as a martyr, it IS equal to being sympathetic to violent jihad around the world.maybe that's it. since Suicide is Haraam (I guessing Forbidden) in Islam... an Islamic 'Emo' can't commit suicide, so they join up with a Jihad group and become a Martyr...

Aren't most Martyr's in the late teens to mid 20 range?

I've always wondered what those group leaders say to get others to martyr themselves without them asking why the leader hasn't done the same.

just an obervation.

Seriously, why is this big news?

"People support terrorism!!" :eek: :eek: *shock* *swoon*

Trostia never misses an opportunity to sweep under the rug inconvenient facts that get in the way of his blind devotion to "Islam is a religion of peace." It's always "out of context" or "they're not real Muslims" or "most Muslims aren't [you name it]" or "Christians do it too."

Interestingly enough, I've never "said" any of the "phrases" you've apparently "quoted" as having been "said" by "Trostia." But I guess your "blind devotion" to "I hate Islam" isn't gonna be interfered with by "inconvinient facts" eh naziboy?

BUt hey..government is there and WILL protect you, right?

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

errrrr...since suicide is haraam in Islam, if a person is willing to think that the 7/7 suicide bomber as a martyr, it IS equal to being sympathetic to violent jihad around the world.

No, because I can easily see how blowing yourself up for your religion (which is certainly what New Mitanni claims - they do it for their religion) makes one a "martyr." Doesn't mean I am "sympathetic" to any of it.

Trostia never misses an opportunity to sweep under the rug inconvenient facts that get in the way of his blind devotion to "Islam is a religion of peace." It's always "out of context" or "they're not real Muslims" or "most Muslims aren't [you name it]" or "Christians do it too."
All those statements are true, as it happens.

And this is 400,000 out of 1.5 million. Wow, that's terrifying. :rolleyes: If it's even accurate. I mean, really, the Sun? Isn't that like taking your statistics from the National Inquirer? Or maybe the Weekly World News. What do the space aliens think of violent jihad?

Plus, sympathy, however unfriendly it is, does not equal participation, even though you might like to characterize it that way. How many non-violent Irish Catholics were sympathetic to the IRA, back in the not-so-distant day? Did that make Catholicism a violent, evil religion? Did you declare personal war on the Irish back then? Did you boycott Irish whiskey, perhaps?

And a minority of Muslims aren't the only people sympathetic to violent jihad, are they? You and other Muslim bashers seem to absolutely love it. You sharpen your teeth and claws on it regularly.

Using the Sun as a news source? Holy shit, what's next? Daily Sport?

"Big-Boobed Glenda Says 'Mooslems Is Bad!'"

No, because I can easily see how blowing yourself up for your religion (which is certainly what New Mitanni claims - they do it for their religion) makes one a "martyr." Doesn't mean I am "sympathetic" to any of it.

I am not New Mittani. :)

It DOES NOT matter whether you think muslim suicide bombers are martyrs for Islam or not (atleast in this thread). Being a non-muslim, you and me have no standing to make that judgement. (I don't recall you claiming to be a muslim, apologies if you are a muslim).

Some muslims do (numbers and degrees of support is of course debatable) and that is a fact. Again, whether it is a cause for concern or not is upto debate and it is your prerogative. But don't be saying stuff like "considering suicide bombers as martyrs is not equal to support to violent jihad".

Which part of suicide bombing is not violent jihad and why is considering such a person as a martyr is not equal to supporting jihad?

muh,if they are a threat (the bombing muslum type) i say we shot them in the head :sniper: :p

not at all harsh.

I am not New Mittani. :)

+1 for you ;)

Some muslims do (numbers and degrees of support is of course debatable) and that is a fact. Again, whether it is a cause for concern or not is upto debate and it is your prerogative. But don't be saying stuff like "considering suicide bombers as martyrs is not equal to support to violent jihad".

I'll say that, and I'll keep saying it, because it's true. Calling someone a martyr doesn't mean you support their actions.

Which part of suicide bombing is not violent jihad and why is considering such a person as a martyr is not equal to supporting jihad?

Labelling someone with a word doesn't mean you "support" that someone. Even if, to you, the word "martyr" has positive connotations.

Super soaraway Sun spots Jihadists SHOCKAH!!!

'Barmy Beardies brood over Bombing Britain!'


7/7 suicide bombers were not even the first suicide bombers of UK. Mohammed Bilal (aka Abdul Bhai), 24, British citizen from Manchester blew himself up in Christmas eve 2000 in Kashmir.

You should know it doesnt count when its brown foriegn types.


Trostia never misses an opportunity to sweep under the rug inconvenient facts that get in the way of his blind devotion to "Islam is a religion of peace." .

Ahh yeah...and sure aren't you the one to suss him out with your blanket discriminatory boycott of muslim businesses to defend the 'American way of life'........


Seriously, why is this big news?

"People support terrorism!!" *shock* *swoon*.

As somebody said earlier "its the Sun".

No doubt those 400,000 muslims that support the terrorists are quite happy to claim off the state....nothing like biting the hand that feeds you, eh?

No doubt those 400,000 muslims that support the terrorists are quite happy to claim off the state....nothing like biting the hand that feeds you, eh?

Aren't you supposed to be permanently docked?

maybe that's it. since Suicide is Haraam (I guessing Forbidden) in Islam... an Islamic 'Emo' can't commit suicide, so they join up with a Jihad group and become a Martyr...
You owe me a monitor.
Your "Islamic Emo" caused me to spray the old one with vodka. It's ruined now!

Trostia never misses an opportunity to sweep under the rug inconvenient facts that get in the way of his blind devotion to "Islam is a religion of peace." It's always "out of context" or "they're not real Muslims" or "most Muslims aren't [you name it]" or "Christians do it too."
That's hilarious...Trostia is really not one to be blindly devoted to anything...except perhaps to not buying into racist hysteria.

Arghh, I hate statistics. Anyone seen how the data was collected? How were the questions phrased? Who commisioned the survey?
Who cares? Your questions are clearly meant to sweep under the rug the fact that Muslims are all terrorists at heart.

But hey, it was a while since we had a Muslim bashing thread. Several days, seemed like. Nothing lasts forever eh?
Condemning those who sympathise with terrorism is "Muslim bashing"?

It would be stupid to bash British Muslims because of this. The same poll revealed that a great majority want extremism to be crushed.

BUt hey..government is there and WILL protect you, right? :rolleyes:

For someone who is obsessed with the military, I'm surprised by your sarcasm!

And this is 400,000 out of 1.5 million. Wow, that's terrifying. :rolleyes: If it's even accurate. I mean, really, the Sun? Isn't that like taking your statistics from the National Inquirer? Or maybe the Weekly World News. What do the space aliens think of violent jihad?

Plus, sympathy, however unfriendly it is, does not equal participation, even though you might like to characterize it that way. How many non-violent Irish Catholics were sympathetic to the IRA, back in the not-so-distant day? Did that make Catholicism a violent, evil religion? Did you declare personal war on the Irish back then? Did you boycott Irish whiskey, perhaps?

400,000 out of 1.5 million is terrifying. That's 27%.

But you make a good point about the IRA. Many of us did sympathise with them back in the day. But that's when Catholics/nationalists were being denied their due civil rights, which to my knowledge is not happening in the UK to Muslims.

Though I must educate you: the IRA were never a Catholic organisation. They are a nationalist political terrorist group. The membership was all Catholic, but their objectives were purely political. Theocracy wasn't part of their agenda.

And the stats came from M15. The Sun (a n00btacular rag i agree) merely reported them.

muh,if they are a threat (the bombing muslum type) i say we shot them in the head :sniper: :p

not at all harsh.
Fortunately for you I believe this is the current policy.

No doubt...
Normally when you say that you provide proof.

Point. Checked BBC, found this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5142908.stm

MI5 believes, from polls, that around 400,000 people in the UK are "sympathetic to violent jihad around the world", said Frank Gardner [BBC security correspondent].
Because, of course, all 400,000 of those are Muslims, aren't they?

And, re-iterating what a previous poster said, who commissioned the polls; what, exactly, were the questions; how many people were asked; what section of the population was asked...?

I could probably establish that 95% of the UK population supports Leicester City by standing outside their stadium on a matchday and asking people 'Are you supporting Leicester today?' as they go in. Doesn't mean shit.

Why do I get the feeling that if the FBI/CIA reported something along these lines in America, everybody would claim 'corruption', 'propaganda' and 'fear mongering', and yet they are more than happy to accept the findings of MI5...?

But you make a good point about the IRA. Many of us did sympathise with them back in the day. But that's when Catholics/nationalists were being denied their due civil rights, which to my knowledge is not happening in the UK to Muslims. You reasons are pointless...you supported terrorism.

And the so called stats talk about violent jihad around the world, not in Britain, or just in Britain. You terrorist sympathiser.

Why do I get the feeling that if the FBI/CIA reported something along these lines in America, everybody would claim 'corruption', 'propaganda' and 'fear mongering', and yet they are more than happy to accept the findings of MI5...?
Actually, quite a few people have questioned them so far, though the focus has been too much on the paper they were reported in. I question these 'facts', but I bet the process by which they were 'discovered' is top secret.

Why do I get the feeling that if the FBI/CIA reported something along these lines in America, everybody would claim 'corruption', 'propaganda' and 'fear mongering', and yet they are more than happy to accept the findings of MI5...?


you havent read the thread have you? everyone is questioning M15 and the sun in particular on this.

Because, of course, all 400,000 of those are Muslims, aren't they?.

amazed it took this long for someone to make this blindingly obvious point which the title of the thread misleadingly misqoutes the article. i

believe the palestinans and iraqis are entitled to defend themselves. i oppose suicide bombings. do i count as being sympathetic 'to violent jihad' in M15's book?

you havent read the thread have you? everyone is questioning M15 and the sun in particular on this.

I have, in fact, thank you very much. I have seen criticisms of The Sun, and questions as to how the survey was carried out, but very few direct criticisms of MI5 themselves and their motivations. Most people seem to be shooting the messenger.

i can only assume its some form of statistical jobbie, i cant see them approaching muslims in the street 'hi, we are M15, do you support violent jihad?' :p

Ahh yeah...and sure aren't you the one to suss him out with your blanket discriminatory boycott of muslim businesses to defend the 'American way of life'

The boycott not only continues, it's growing. The fewer dollars that go to Muslim businesses, the fewer make their way to Islamofascist terrorists.

i can only assume its some form of statistical jobbie, i cant see them approaching muslims in the street 'hi, we are M15, do you support violent jihad?' :p

I was just thinking that, I can just imagine them now with sunglasses, ear peices, black suits and clip boards.

Well I sympathise with the people who shoot terrorist and give them 500 lb guided curb stomps..so I guess we are even .:D

You mean shoot and give 500-lb guided curbstomps to incompetent terrorist-wannabe fanboys who are made bigger than they ever were when it suits the government's publicity purposes.

:rolleyes:

That statistic doesn't really say much. What constitutes "sypathizing"? Is it something as serious as believing the terrorists are right? Is it something less sinister, like thinking the west should stop provoking terrorist attacks?

The boycott not only continues, it's growing. The fewer dollars that go to Muslim businesses, the fewer make their way to Islamofascist terrorists.

and what 'muslim' products have you stopped buying.

and can i boycott coca-cola to try and starve the KKK too?

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006300617,00.html



Wow. England sure has a big, BIG problem if this is true.
The Sun. The Sun. My God, it's the damned Sun and you think it's true?!!!

I'll say that, and I'll keep saying it, because it's true. Calling someone a martyr doesn't mean you support their actions.



Labelling someone with a word doesn't mean you "support" that someone. Even if, to you, the word "martyr" has positive connotations.

That's like saying "Mother Teresa is a saint but I don't support her charity work".:p

The word martyr (Shaheed/Shahid) has more than "positive connotations" in Islamic traditions. There are people who name their sons as Shahid. Martyrdom is revered and according to many tafsirs (Qur'anic explanations), true martyrs achieve a uique and immediate reward.

Heck, the whole Shia faith survives on the martyrdom of Hussein. People cut themselves and cut and bleed their childs during Muharram in commemorating the martyrdom of Hussein.

That's like saying "Mother Teresa is a saint but I don't support her charity work".:p Actually, I did say that, though not in so many words. She did some really, really wonderful stuff, but I was absolutely opposed to her stance on abstinence and abortion.

Deportation is a good remedy.

Actually, I did say that, though not in so many words. She did some really, really wonderful stuff, but I was absolutely opposed to her stance on abstinence and abortion.

It's OK to say "I support her charity work, but she is not a saint".

The reverse is stupid and that is what Trostia is saying.

The Sun. The Sun. My God, it's the damned Sun and you think it's true?!!!
It's a tabloid newspaper people. IT LIES :mad:

It's a tabloid newspaper people. IT LIES :mad:
hmmm....

ok, but does this sound like a lie?

MI5 believes, from polls, that around 400,000 people in the UK are "sympathetic to violent jihad around the world", said Frank Gardner.

Within that number 1,200 people have been identified as being activists the security service believe are engaged in acts of terrorism at home and abroad, he said.

quoted by the BBC from this post. http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11292769&postcount=6

hmmm....

ok, but does this sound like a lie?



quoted by the BBC from this post. http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11292769&postcount=6


Thing is that if you ask somebody do you think its right for volunteers to help the Chechens in their struggle against the Russians and they say yes, you could put that down as support for "Jihad". But it isn't really. Likewise the Palestinians. Or Kashmir.

Thing is that if you ask somebody do you think its right for volunteers to help the Chechens in their struggle against the Russians and they say yes, you could put that down as support for "Jihad". But it isn't really. Likewise the Palestinians. Or Kashmir.
well, yes, agreed.

but the fact that what the sun reported is also what the BBC reported, (and what I quoted) so how can one be labled a lie when it's mirrored in a respectable news outlet.

and two, Jihad is attached to a different sort of terrorism than say Rebellion/freedom fighters from on Islamic nations/background.

"The Sun"?

Um...These are the same shmucks who predict another "Day of Judgement", "End Times", "Apocalypse" and "Armaggeddon" every two months or so...and are always wrong.

"The Sun"?

Um...These are the same shmucks who predict another "Day of Judgement", "End Times", "Apocalypse" and "Armaggeddon" every two months or so...and are always wrong.
On occasion, even they might get something right. They exacerbate the news, that is for sure, but that doesn't mean everything they report is false...usually just misreported.

and what 'muslim' products have you stopped buying.

and can i boycott coca-cola to try and starve the KKK too?

Restaurants, gas stations, 7-11's, and any other businesses owned/operated by Muslims are off-limits. And to the extent possible (which unfortunately isn't very great), gasoline from Mideast sources.

As for boycotting Coca-Cola to "try and starve the KKK", feel free to drink any beverage you choose, but if you think there's any connection between Coke and the KKK, you're on a different kind of coke.

<snip>
400,000 out of 1.5 million is terrifying. That's 27%.
Well, I guess it seems scary to some people.

But you make a good point about the IRA. Many of us did sympathise with them back in the day. But that's when Catholics/nationalists were being denied their due civil rights, which to my knowledge is not happening in the UK to Muslims.
According to them it is. They're wrong, of course, but a lot of people thought the IRA were wrong, too.

Personally, I sympathized with the IRA, but at the same time, I despise violence. Yet, when I was asked, I had to say my sympathies were with the IRA's cause, but not with their methods. According to New Mitanni, that would make me a terrorist sympathizer, even though I would want to see every IRA bomber in prison. Likewise, while I have heard some Muslims praise the terrorists' methods, I have also heard Muslims denounce the terrorists' methods but still say they sympathize with the cause the terrorists claim to represent because they sincerely do believe their rights are in danger.

As I say, I think they are wrong, but that does not mean that that 400,000 represents any more of a threat to the UK than non-violent sympathizers with the IRA did.

Though I must educate you: the IRA were never a Catholic organisation. They are a nationalist political terrorist group. The membership was all Catholic, but their objectives were purely political. Theocracy wasn't part of their agenda.
I know that. I mentioned the Catholic thing to underscore New Mitanni's known prejudice against Islam as a religion. However, I don't really care about the details of the IRA's agenda or membership. I don't care about the Islamist terrorist agenda, either. The IRA had what they considered a legitimate beef, and so do the Muslims, whether anyone else agrees with them or not. As I said, I sympathized with the Irish cause. I do not sympathize with the Islamist cause. My sympathies lose relevance, however, because I think ALL terrorists are murderers and should be treated as such, even if they claim they're doing it for me and mine.

Some Muslims in the UK seem to believe they are being oppressed, and some of those seem to believe the terrorist propaganda that they are fighting for the rights of Muslims. I feel sorry for those Muslims because I think they are being misled and exploited by the terrorists.

But be all of that as it may, I will not stand by and let an entire religion to be demonized because of a violent minority, as people like New Mitanni try to do.

And the stats came from M15. The Sun (a n00btacular rag i agree) merely reported them.
Then why didn't the OP link directly to a government report? Or at least a more reputable paper? Even the NY Times can make shit up. You're telling me the Sun is too honorable for that? Please.

Restaurants, gas stations, 7-11's, and any other businesses owned/operated by Muslims are off-limits. And to the extent possible (which unfortunately isn't very great), gasoline from Mideast sources.

As for boycotting Coca-Cola to "try and starve the KKK", feel free to drink any beverage you choose, but if you think there's any connection between Coke and the KKK, you're on a different kind of coke.

Freedom Fries Part Deux. To quote Johnny Depp, "You're weird." Just more example of the egocentrism that the United States displays which pisses off the rest of the world. If you think a boycott is going to "hurt the terrorists" then you sure have a funny definition of terrorists.

And oil? Hah. A good deal if not all of the oil in the world comes from OPEC which includes the Middle East and South America amongst member nations. Maybe if you start a campaign that says "Research Alternative Energy Sources, or the Terrorists Win."

:p

I'd like to point out that the US is the 2nd largest producer of petroleum behind Saudi Arabia.

Freedom Fries Part Deux. To quote Johnny Depp, "You're weird." Just more example of the egocentrism that the United States displays which pisses off the rest of the world.

You've obviously mistaken us for people who care.

As for Johnny Depp, I'm still waiting for him to leave the US and take up permanent residence in France or whatever EDEW (= Effete, Decadent Euro-Wimp) state will have him. Don't let the door smack your ass on the way out, Johnny boy.

Maybe if you start a campaign that says "Research Alternative Energy Sources, or the Terrorists Win."

FYI there is such a movement at this very time, as well as a movement to reduce oil consumption precisely to cut the number of dollars flowing to Mideast oil states and thence to Islamofascist terrorist organizations.

You've obviously mistaken us for people who care.

Ah yes, nothing says "I don't care" like taking some of your precious time to let NationStates General know that with a post.

:D

As for Johnny Depp, I'm still waiting for him to leave the US and take up permanent residence in France or whatever EDEW (= Effete, Decadent Euro-Wimp) state will have him. Don't let the door smack your ass on the way out, Johnny boy.

I'm sure Mr. Depp is weeping at how you care so little about him right now, Mr. "I Don't Care".

:rolleyes:

FYI there is such a movement at this very time, as well as a movement to reduce oil consumption precisely to cut the number of dollars flowing to Mideast oil states and thence to Islamofascist terrorist organizations.

And as long as Dear Leader and Halliburton is buddy-buddy with The House of Saud, you well as might hit the crack pipe with Gary Busey and Robert Downey Jr.

Then why didn't the OP link directly to a government report? Or at least a more reputable paper? Even the NY Times can make shit up. You're telling me the Sun is too honorable for that? Please.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5142908.stm
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006300617,00.html

Cross-referencing the BBC version with the Sun's shows that the Sun has committed the lesser crime of misreportage. The BBC version states that MI5 has found that 400, 000 "people in the UK" have sympathies for a global jihad, while the Sun changes that to "British Muslims".

Sure, it's only misreportage. But it means that the 400,000 sympathisers now have to taken in the light of the total British population of 59 million. That's about 0.68%. To speak nothing of the shades of gray that are involved when discussing degrees of sympathy or MI5's polling methodology, this is definitely not the "huge holy war sympathy" from a substantial chunk of the British Muslim population that the Sun has proclaimed in big bold letters.

well, yes, agreed.

but the fact that what the sun reported is also what the BBC reported, (and what I quoted) so how can one be labled a lie when it's mirrored in a respectable news outlet.

and two, Jihad is attached to a different sort of terrorism than say Rebellion/freedom fighters from on Islamic nations/background.

o I'm not saying its a lie, as such - just possibly a half truth or distortion - but its just that theres no details - what were the questions that were asked, for instance. Were they asked if the supported the establishment of a caliphate and the imposition of sharia law by force, for instance..that would indicate support of the Bin Ladeb style Jihad to me.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5142908.stm
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006300617,00.html

Cross-referencing the BBC version with the Sun's shows that the Sun has committed the lesser crime of misreportage. The BBC version states that MI5 has found that 400, 000 "people in the UK" have sympathies for a global jihad, while the Sun changes that to "British Muslims".

Sure, it's only misreportage. But it means that the 400,000 sympathisers now have to taken in the light of the total British population of 59 million. That's about 0.68%. To speak nothing of the shades of gray that are involved when discussing degrees of sympathy or MI5's polling methodology, this is definitely not the "huge holy war sympathy" from a substantial chunk of the British Muslim population that the Sun has proclaimed in big bold letters.
Good thing you decided to join the forum! :D Thanks for providing the clearer perspective.

The only quibble I would have is with the phrase "only misreportage." That kind of error can cause huge problems. I consider it unacceptable in a proper news source. In fact, it's why I don't consider the Sun a proper news source. Tabloids like the Sun thrive on conflict, and they have a long tradition of fanning flames to increase their sales. (For instance, a sarcastically literary nickname of the NY Post used to be "The Horror and the Terror" because of the frequency with which those words appeared in their headlines.) This is just another example. What did the old codgers used to call it? Oh, yeah -- yellow journalism.

http://library.thinkquest.org/C0111500/spanamer/yellow.htm

400,000...is that about the number of Muslims in Britain? Oh wait...there are about 1.5 million...so a third of them are probably within some sort of 'terrorist sympathiser' age range...

Cross-referencing the BBC version with the Sun's shows that the Sun has committed the lesser crime of misreportage. The BBC version states that MI5 has found that 400, 000 "people in the UK" have sympathies for a global jihad, while the Sun changes that to "British Muslims".


Either way, this indicates the need to erect 400,000 gallows.

Either way, this indicates the need to erect 400,000 gallows.
400,001. Get in line and wait your turn.

400,001. Get in line and wait your turn.

*raised eyebrow*
I'm not the one whose total loyalty to Western hegemony is under suspicion... how about yours?
Is your Inner Compas 101% focussed on the victory of British arms in Iraq?

Restaurants, gas stations, 7-11's, and any other businesses owned/operated by Muslims are off-limits. And to the extent possible (which unfortunately isn't very great), gasoline from Mideast sources.

As for boycotting Coca-Cola to "try and starve the KKK", feel free to drink any beverage you choose, but if you think there's any connection between Coke and the KKK, you're on a different kind of coke.


coca-cola is american. the racist terrorist group the KKK is american. both based in the south too. if i help the US economy in any way, crosses will get burnt. there is a far stronger connection between coke and the KKK than someone you reckon looks arabic working in a 7-11 in whatever red-neck hell hole you are from and al-queada.

you boycotting a resteraunt that has a muslim waiter is simply racist.

*raised eyebrow*
I'm not the one whose total loyalty to Western hegemony is under suspicion... how about yours?
Is your Inner Compas 101% focussed on the victory of British arms in Iraq?

Waitwaitwait...

So, if you're not '101%' supportive of the troops in Iraq, you're somehow supportive of terrorism?

Waitwaitwait...

So, if you're not '101%' supportive of the troops in Iraq, you're somehow supportive of terrorism?

I'd say that only in the case of Murvayets, or whatever that mutt was called.

But if you don't have a marked preference over Our Troops as opposed to Their Insurgents, your loyalties are... suspicious.
I'm assuming that more than 400,000 people have serious concerns over what we are doing there. ( So do I. I still think we should have avoided that war in the first place. )
But there is just 400,000 who appearently have a preference for the other side.

Stop ALL MUSLIM IMMAGRATION TO THE WEST.....

Stop ALL MUSLIM IMMAGRATION TO THE WEST.....

Why harm all of the good Muslims for the actions of a few ? I guess we should also kick all the Muslims out of the military and we should fire the police commisioner in Philadelphia and throw them all into concentration camps
maybe make them all wear special Allah heads so we can round them up easier .

Stop ALL MUSLIM IMMAGRATION TO THE WEST.....

that would be Immigration. fuckin rednecks.

*raised eyebrow*
I'm not the one whose total loyalty to Western hegemony is under suspicion... how about yours?
Is your Inner Compas 101% focussed on the victory of British arms in Iraq?
Oh, were you under the impression that you're the only one making a gallows list? No, dear, there are three pronouns in this game -- YOU, THEM, and US.

And, according to US, both YOU and THEY are the enemy because you both try to foment war and oppression. So, every time you open your warmongering mouth, you get bumped up on the list -- like just now when you implied that anyone who doesn't want to plunge the world into sectarian violence might be a traitor to something. *bump* -- up you go.

I'd say that only in the case of Murvayets, or whatever that mutt was called.
Meow.

But if you don't have a marked preference over Our Troops as opposed to Their Insurgents, your loyalties are... suspicious.
I'm assuming that more than 400,000 people have serious concerns over what we are doing there. ( So do I. I still think we should have avoided that war in the first place. )
But there is just 400,000 who appearently have a preference for the other side.
*Bump* -- your spot on the list gets better and better.

You may put 'em on the list — you may put 'em on the list;
And they'll none of 'em be missed — they'll none of 'em be missed

http://math.boisestate.edu/gas/mikado/webopera/mk105a.html