NationStates Jolt Archive

Africa invites top anti-Americans to summit

BANJUL (Reuters) - Two of the world's most anti-American leaders, Hugo Chavez of Venezuela and Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, attended this weekend's Africa summit in Gambia to the consternation of Western diplomats.

Both lived up to their billing with Chavez railing against U.S. "hegemony" and Ahmadinejad blaming Western greed for "poverty, backwardness, regional conflicts, corruption, illicit drugs."

He said the Ahmadinejad invitation was apparently extended unilaterally by Gambian President Yahya Jammeh, and provoked criticism from some countries in the 53-member AU.

But Western diplomats suggested the two invitations may also have been intended to underline Africa's breakaway from the influence of former colonial powers in Europe.

"At one time the links with Europe were still strong. But in the 21st century Africa wants to show that these links have finally been broken," one European ambassador said.

They are saying Africa can have a position that differs with that of the West."

Gutto suggested that whereas there were strong and logical reasons to invite Venezuela, Ahmadinejad had probably pushed for an invitation to lobby for African support in Tehran's nuclear standoff with the West.

He said African countries were eager to hear about Chavez's policies toward Western oil companies.

Africa invites top anti-Americans to summit (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060702/ts_nm/africa_outsiders_dc)
---------------------------------------------------------------

Its just interesting to see that the African Union states would invite two people who are obviously...involved...with the West right now to something that is intended to voice the seperation of Africa from the Europeans and the West. I mean, I can understand that Africa wants to become self dependable and seperate itself from Europe and all...but why bring these two clowns into the picture? What is the purpose of having them there besides raising a few eyebrows in American and Europe?

Anyway, just an interesting article I thought I should make people aware of, thats all.

Fair bet that their debts won't be written off like the other nations the US/EU are forgiving.

Fair bet that their debts won't be written off like the other nations the US/EU are forgiving.

I just dont get it. We dump so much aid into those countries and I doubt Venzualia and Iran have even talked about helping Africa. Why would they invite a bunch of tools they know we, the west, have problems with?

I bet Chavez and Ahmadinejad don't contribute nearly as much money as the west does. I don't see how this is in Africa's best interests at all.

I bet Chavez and Ahmadinejad don't contribute nearly as much money as the west does. I don't see how this is in Africa's best interests at all.

Which is exactly *glances and points up* what I said in post 3.

Which you submitted like the exact same time I did.

I just dont get it. We dump so much aid into those countries and I doubt Venzualia and Iran have even talked about helping Africa. Why would they invite a bunch of tools they know we, the west, have problems with?
Maybe they consider them more equals than helpers.

Maybe they consider them more equals than helpers.
So they'd rather hold their heads high than help their poverty stricken populations?

Maybe they consider them more equals than helpers.

...lets say your a poor guy in a bad neighborhood. A rich guy comes in and says he will give you money to build up your house. You say ok. You see that theres two guys that dont have nearly as much money as the rich guy...and they are constantly fighting with the rich guy. Do you side with them because they may be your equal, financially, or do you side with the rich guy because he is totally superior in every way shape or form and can help you build up your house?


Hmmmm:rolleyes:

I just dont get it. We dump so much aid into those countries and I doubt Venzualia and Iran have even talked about helping Africa. Why would they invite a bunch of tools they know we, the west, have problems with?

Oil.

I bet Chavez and Ahmadinejad don't contribute nearly as much money as the west does. I don't see how this is in Africa's best interests at all.
As much as they are raving crackpots, they are right. And besides, what is money going to do? Give the dictators of impoverished countries more money to pay themselves?

Oil.

Afrikaa (I love how that looks in Dutch) doesnt have oil?

Afrikaa (I love how that looks in Dutch) doesnt have oil?

not enough at low prices

Africa invites top anti-Americans to summit

So? You say that like it's a bad thing.

...lets say your a poor guy in a bad neighborhood. A rich guy comes in and says he will give you money to build up your house. You say ok. You see that theres two guys that dont have nearly as much money as the rich guy...and they are constantly fighting with the rich guy. Do you side with them because they may be your equal, financially, or do you side with the rich guy because he is totally superior in every way shape or form and can help you build up your house?


Hmmmm:rolleyes:

Of course what this lovely little vignette misses is that often, the money never goes to the poor people who need it most, but a whole bunch of corrupt government and military officials who keep the money for themselves and their buddies, their cronies, so on and so forth.

:rolleyes:

Afrikaa (I love how that looks in Dutch) doesnt have oil?
You should learn to spell Dutch then. :p

Since Im American, feel free to take this with a grain of salt (or two). I think that Africa is doing what would (in a smaller ring) be called "Political Posturing." For one thing, if they didnt invite these two fellows, would we even be discussing this? Or would the meeting be buried as a blurb on page 18 of your local newspaper. Moreover, both Chavez and the Iranian gentleman enjoy quite a bit of public popularity in their own regions, not just countries. Third, of course, is the benefit of thumbing your nose at the Superpower(s) (America primarily, possibly also England, as her ally). This third benefit achieved some fascinating permutations during the late Cold War, and it can do one of two things: Either work as the posture of Downtrodden Africa, victim extraorinare, defying the historical "Oppressors." (the US was once viewed as liberators in some places, but these words become very Protean in the modern era). Or backfire like hell, and make the African leaders look like loose cannons.

In any event, we're talking about it. Arent we?

Africa invites top anti-Americans to summit

So? You say that like it's a bad thing.

Numero uno, I didnt say that...that was the headline for the article.

Numero dos, it IS a bad thing.

Of course what this lovely little vignette misses is that often, the money never goes to the poor people who need it most, but a whole bunch of corrupt government and military officials who keep the money for themselves and their buddies, their cronies, so on and so forth.

:rolleyes:

Oh I'm not about to say that Africa isnt corrupt...but even if the dictators and such are getting money from the West and NOT giving it to their people, why would they turn to our enemies?

Numero dos, it IS a bad thing.
Why?

You should learn to spell Dutch then. :p

Or I should just learn Dutch completely.:p

Numero uno, I didnt say that...that was the headline for the article.

Which seems to want to make it out as though there is something remarkable about this.

Numero dos, it IS a bad thing.

Hardly.

Since Im American, feel free to take this with a grain of salt (or two). I think that Africa is doing what would (in a smaller ring) be called "Political Posturing." For one thing, if they didnt invite these two fellows, would we even be discussing this? Or would the meeting be buried as a blurb on page 18 of your local newspaper. Moreover, both Chavez and the Iranian gentleman enjoy quite a bit of public popularity in their own regions, not just countries. Third, of course, is the benefit of thumbing your nose at the Superpower(s) (America primarily, possibly also England, as her ally). This third benefit achieved some fascinating permutations during the late Cold War, and it can do one of two things: Either work as the posture of Downtrodden Africa, victim extraorinare, defying the historical "Oppressors." (the US was once viewed as liberators in some places, but these words become very Protean in the modern era). Or backfire like hell, and make the African leaders look like loose cannons.

In any event, we're talking about it. Arent we?

hmm...interesting way of looking at things, good post.

Which seems to want to make it out as though there is something remarkable about this.

Well...its sorta stupid for them considering we are the wealthy nations who give them aid...socialist 'paradises like Venezuala and insane Muslim theocracies like Iran are hardly Africas rich uncles.

Hardly.

Why?

For the above reason.

Well...its sorta stupid for them considering we are the wealthy nations who give them aid...socialist 'paradises like Venezuala and insane Muslim theocracies like Iran are hardly Africas rich uncles.


For the above reason.

So people who aren't the greatest of allies talking to people who you don't really care that much about anyway, is a bad thing for America..... because..... its stupid?

Well...its sorta stupid for them considering we are the wealthy nations who give them aid...socialist 'paradises like Venezuala and insane Muslim theocracies like Iran are hardly Africas rich uncles.

Africa would be far better off if it weaned itself off of Western "Aid," seeing as the West hardly gives it out of the goodness of its heart.

For the above reason.

That's not a reason.

not enough at low prices
You mean Nigeria and Sudan aren't exporting huge amounts of oil and making a lot of money from it?

As for the topic...they're inviting them. So what? If they think they can get better deals from Iran and Venezuela, then they should do that. They don't owe us anything. As that one guy in the OP said, Africa is free to form independent positions on world issues.
And to be honest, it's not like they carry the economical or military weight to make much of a difference.

Oh I'm not about to say that Africa isnt corrupt...but even if the dictators and such are getting money from the West and NOT giving it to their people, why would they turn to our enemies?

Probably because they learned the lessons of Ngo Dinh Diem, Manuel Noriega and Saddam Hussein: Being America's pet dictator isn't good enough if Uncle Sam decides you're much useful being disposed of.

Africa would be far better off if it weaned itself off of Western "Aid," seeing as the West hardly gives it out of the goodness of its heart.

I'll second that. I dont want my country's money going to that corrupt hell hole.

You mean Nigeria and Sudan aren't exporting huge amounts of oil and making a lot of money from it?

As for the topic...they're inviting them. So what? If they think they can get better deals from Iran and Venezuela, then they should do that. They don't owe us anything. As that one guy in the OP said, Africa is free to form independent positions on world issues.
And to be honest, it's not like they carry the economical or military weight to make much of a difference.

I'm not saying we should stop them from doing this....all I'm saying is it is a bit stupid of them to do this, thats all.

Probably because they learned the lessons of Ngo Dinh Diem, Manuel Noriega and Saddam Hussein: Being America's pet dictator isn't good enough if Uncle Sam decides you're much useful being disposed of.

African nations are hardly America's pets....and anyway this isnt about America only..its about the West as a whole....more Europe I think because they colonized Africa. Atleast thats what the article made it seem like.

Oh I'm not about to say that Africa isnt corrupt...but even if the dictators and such are getting money from the West and NOT giving it to their people, why would they turn to our enemies?

Why do you think that all the countries that think's different to your country are your enemy?

Afrikaa (I love how that looks in Dutch) doesnt have oil?

They want it, and they want it very cheaply. And Venezuela and Iran might be willing to make very good deals with African nations. Sort of a "If you go against the US or EU, we will provide you with cut rate oil." kind of thing. And since Africa needs cheap oil to industrialize and pull itself out of poverty, it may be very tempting for them to do so.

Well, we all know how much Iran cares about the wellbeing of its citizens, especially the ones stoned to death for being gay or getting raped. Or maybe the ones killed for not allowing their husbands to abuse them anymore, they're also fine examples of modern law and welfare. Maybe the 11% who are unemployed or the 40% in dire poverty could extol the virtues of Iran as well...

The only reason these nations are invited is because they have a lot of money and oil, both of which are desparately needed by many African nations.

You mean Nigeria and Sudan aren't exporting huge amounts of oil and making a lot of money from it.

Nigeria and Sudan have oil, but most of sub-Saharan Africa does not and has to import it. At $70/barrel, that's great for exporters but hell for poor nations already crippled by severe inflation and socialist mismanagement.

They want it, and they want it very cheaply. And Venezuela and Iran might be willing to make very good deals with African nations. Sort of a "If you go against the US or EU, we will provide you with cut rate oil." kind of thing. And since Africa needs cheap oil to industrialize and pull itself out of poverty, it may be very tempting for them to do so.

Well put.

Why do you think that all the countries that think's different to your country are your enemy?

Uh...because Achmadinejad (who cares about sp) and Chavez...are our enemies.

...lets say your a poor guy in a bad neighborhood. A rich guy comes in and says he will give you money to build up your house. You say ok. You see that theres two guys that dont have nearly as much money as the rich guy...and they are constantly fighting with the rich guy. Do you side with them because they may be your equal, financially, or do you side with the rich guy because he is totally superior in every way shape or form and can help you build up your house?


Hmmmm:rolleyes:

If the rich guy treated me like some sort of sub-human charity case and always strutted around claiming to be "totally superior in every way shape or form," I'd probably ally myself with the other guys if they treated me as an equal. Respect is more important than wealth to most people. No matter how wealthy or powerful a person or nation is, those with superiority complexes are insufferable and not worth dealing with.

If the rich guy treated me like some sort of sub-human charity case and always strutted around claiming to be "totally superior in every way shape or form," I'd probably ally myself with the other guys if they treated me as an equal. Respect is more important than wealth to most people. No matter how wealthy or powerful a person or nation is, those with superiority complexes are insufferable and not worth dealing with.

Easy for you to say that when you live in a nice state like Texas.

Try living in black Africa, then tell me that you'd rather live in African poverty and be buddy buddy with Americas enemies and get some 'respect' than get money. pffft...

We know nothing of the poverty and ghettos that the Africans live in. We cant even compare it to what our blacks live in.

Easy for you to say that when you live in a nice state like Texas.

Try living in black Africa, then tell me that you'd rather live in African poverty and be buddy buddy with Americas enemies and get some 'respect' than get money. pffft...

We know nothing of the poverty and ghettos that the Africans live in. We cant even compare it to what our blacks live in.

It's amazing how the United States is outsourcing a lot of things besides jobs, like Democracy and Welfare.

Why aren't the Africans allowed to have pride despite being dirt-poor and probably scrabbling for survival because El Presidente needs another summer home for the backyard party with his cronies?

Why is it considered parasitical to seek welfare assistance in the United States, but at the same time ridiculous if Africans refuse to suckle from the free handout teat of the Good Old US of A?

It's amazing how the United States is outsourcing a lot of things besides jobs, like Democracy and Welfare.

Why aren't the Africans allowed to have pride despite being dirt-poor and probably scrabbling for survival because El Presidente needs another summer home for the backyard party with his cronies?

Why is it considered parasitical to seek welfare assistance in the United States, but at the same time ridiculous if Africans refuse to suckle from the free handout teat of the Good Old US of A?

Africans arnt doing anything.

A few African corrupt leaders ARE. They are stealing the money. I dont know where your going with your post.

Easy for you to say that when you live in a nice state like Texas.

Try living in black Africa, then tell me that you'd rather live in African poverty and be buddy buddy with Americas enemies and get some 'respect' than get money. pffft...

We know nothing of the poverty and ghettos that the Africans live in. We cant even compare it to what our blacks live in.

You have no idea. I'm a good deal older than you and as such have had more life experiences. You'd be surprised at the choices I (and other adults) have made. I've given up economic security more than once (and actually ended up living on the street on one occasion) because I though the cost to my self respect was too high. And without self respect, you have nothing. But you'll have a better understanding of that once you get out into the real world. Pride is a surprisingly strong motivator.

And if you still don't believe that nations will sometimes choose respect over security, just look at all of the poor nations who have refused to submit to the US. They're not that hard to find. If all that matterd was money, we would have no enemies in the world.

And FYI, Texas isn't that nice of a state. In many ways we border on third world status.

Africans arnt doing anything.

A few African corrupt leaders ARE. They are stealing the money. I dont know where your going with your post.

That was in response to your post saying pride is impractical and ridiculous when living in absolute poverty. After all, the typical conservative mindset is "If you're poor it's because you're lazy and you deserve to be poor." Which starkly contrasts with giving free handouts.

And if the corrupt leaders are stealing money, why keep giving it to them? It's like the Food for Oil argument. All the dirty details were put in front of the United States but both times they let it slip past without giving it much thought.

You have no idea. I'm a good deal older than you and as such have had more life experiences. You'd be surprised at the choices I (and other adults) have made. I've given up economic security more than once (and actually ended up living on the street on one occasion) because I though the cost to my self respect was too high. And without self respect, you have nothing. But you'll have a better understanding of that once you get out into the real world. Pride is a surprisingly strong motivator.

And if you still don't believe that nations will sometimes choose respect over security, just look at all of the poor nations who have refused to submit to the US. They're not that hard to find. If all that matterd was money, we would have no enemies in the world.

And FYI, Texas isn't that nice of a state. In many ways we border on third world status.

1. All that is interesting, but I doubt you've lived in anything half as bad as African poverty.

2. How do you know how old I am?:confused:

3. Texas is a pretty nice state. Why dont you like it?

That was in response to your post saying pride is impractical and ridiculous when living in absolute poverty. After all, the typical conservative mindset is "If you're poor it's because you're lazy and you deserve to be poor." Which starkly contrasts with giving free handouts.

And if the corrupt leaders are stealing money, why keep giving it to them? It's like the Food for Oil argument. All the dirty details were put in front of the United States but both times they let it slip past without giving it much thought.

I'd rather we not give them aid...but I'm not in charge of our government...right now.

I'm thinking from an African point of view that its dumb for them to move to those guys when they have us, not an American point of view.

Uh...because Achmadinejad (who cares about sp) and Chavez...are our enemies.

If a country have economic ties (or try to have) with an "enemy" of the USA it´s dont means that this country became an "enemy" too.

Brazil don´t support USA against Cuba and have close economics ties with Venezuela. Do you think Brazil is an enemy of the USA?

It´s necessary USA to stop to think that only it's the owner of the truth.

I'm thinking from an African point of view that its dumb for them to move to those guys when they have us, not an American point of view.

And how is it an "African perspective" that it's best to continue sucking off the American Tit? That statement is just a fraction of the superiority complex that has a good deal of the world annoyed at the United States. It reminds me of the Simpsons episode where Homer gets the crayon pulled out of his brain and suddenly becomes a genius. Then with the sudden influx of know-it-all attitude he ends up alienating friends by getting the nuclear plant shut down. The last thing he's saying as his coworkers are walking away from him is "...but I'm your better!"

1. All that is interesting, but I doubt you've lived in anything half as bad as African poverty.

No home and sleeping in the bushes + no food to eat = half as bad as African poverty. I don't claim it to be the same. But people will give up more than you could ever imagine to keep their self respect and liberty. However, some will never understand that. They tend to be the types who are willing to give up some of their basic freedoms in exchange for a little security. Fortunately, not everyone is like that.

2. How do you know how old I am?:confused:

I was on here when you first started posting. And while I don't post very often, I do pay attention to those who do. You posted several times about how you don't like certain aspects of your high school (racial makeup being a prominent concern). I don't know your exact age, but I guess it to be between 14 and 16 based on your posting history.

3. Texas is a pretty nice state. Why dont you like it?

No, it's not. It's a cultural and social backwater run by greedy bastards who would rather have people die on hospital steps than pay a few extra cents in taxes and provide even basic social services.

If a country have economic ties (or try to have) with an "enemy" of the USA it´s dont means that this country became an "enemy" too.

Brazil don´t support USA against Cuba and have close economics ties with Venezuela. Do you think Brazil is an emeny of the USA?

It´s necessary USA to stop to think that so it is the owner of the truth.

I think your misunderstanding me. I never said that the African nations are our enemies, I said they are turning TO our enemies. See the difference?

Chavez is cool.:)

No home and sleeping in the bushes + no food to eat = half as bad as African poverty. I don't claim it to be the same. But people will give up more than you could ever imagine to keep their self respect and liberty. However, some will never understand that. They tend to be the types who are willing to give up some of their basic freedoms in exchange for a little security. Fortunately, not everyone is like that.



I was on here when you first started posting. And while I don't post very often, I do pay attention to those who do. You posted several times about how you don't like certain aspects of your high school (racial makeup being a prominent concern). I don't know your exact age, but I guess it to be between 14 and 16 based on your posting history.



No, it's not. It's a cultural and social backwater run by greedy bastards who would rather have people die on hospital steps than pay a few extra cents in taxes and provide even basic social services.

1. Hmm...I JUST turned 17 so your right on.

2. I see what the problem is, your a lefty in a right wing state!:p

3. I will continue this tomorrow, I gotta go to bed, I'm le tired.

I think your misunderstanding me. I never said that the African nations are our enemies, I said they are turning TO our enemies. See the difference?

You said it was a bad thing on other post.

I think your misunderstanding me. I never said that the African nations are our enemies, I said they are turning TO our enemies. See the difference?

And it's this Father Knows Best condescencion on a national scale that is turning those countries away from the United States in the first place.

And it's this Father Knows Best condescencion on a national scale that is turning those countries away from the United States in the first place.
Which is a good thing.

And it's this Father Knows Best condescencion on a national scale that is turning those countries away from the United States in the first place.

Please, I'd rather have African nations turn away from us...then we wont have to dump dollar after dollar into those corrupt shit holes.

Dont flatter yourself.

Which is a good thing.

Damn right.

Damn right.
So we're in agreement then that Chavez is a good man.

1. Hmm...I JUST turned 17 so your right on.


I'll place that information in your file.

Please, I'd rather have African nations turn away from us...then we wont have to dump dollar after dollar into those corrupt shit holes.

Dont flatter yourself.

Excuse me but USA don´t put money only for Aid. The money is to buy support, to open markets, and more and more and more. If the money go to poor people, it´s good ... if not, it´s good too if the country do what USA expect it to do.

Please, I'd rather have African nations turn away from us...then we wont have to dump dollar after dollar into those corrupt shit holes.

Dont flatter yourself.

So why whine about the countries turning towards America's Enemies™ in the first place?

Sour grapes, anyone?

Afrikaa (I love how that looks in Dutch) doesnt have oil?
Just about all countries have oil. Some more or less than others.

But whenever someone uses 'oil' as an arguement I do not see it as valid or the most logical thought answer. Using oil in a debate is like saying 'Your momma is so fat' in a school yard fight.

Basically, the problem is in the "governments" (Not applicable in all areas) of the African "nations." The only real way to solve Africa's problems is to get rid of the corrupt and inept (or both) "governments" of the African "nations." Have fun trying, though. Until it's stable, Africans will lose every time.

And stability is possible. Look at Botswana. They have probably one of the best economies on the continent, even dispite the massive AIDS infection rates, and there's plenty of programmes to cut that down.

African nations need to learn from Botswana.

Just about all countries have oil. Some more or less than others.

But whenever someone uses 'oil' as an arguement I do not see it as valid or the most logical thought answer. Using oil in a debate is like saying 'Your momma is so fat' in a school yard fight.

"Your oil is so thick, when I drill into your ground, I have to use titanium drills"

That sort of school yard fight? :p

Easy for you to say that when you live in a nice state like Texas.

Try living in black Africa, then tell me that you'd rather live in African poverty and be buddy buddy with Americas enemies and get some 'respect' than get money. pffft...

We know nothing of the poverty and ghettos that the Africans live in. We cant even compare it to what our blacks live in.

You're making it entirely obvious that you know nothing of most Africans' lives, that's for sure.

Africa is not some uniform mass in which all the leaders are equally corrupt, all the countries think alike, and all the inhabitants are the cute little orphans with big eyes you see on the Christian Charity Fund commercials. Africans, strangely enough, are people, most of whom have some self-respect, and many of whom find the West's condescending attitude towards their entire continent insufferable. People like to own their problems, not have someone who believes himself "totally superior in every way" say, "Aw, you poor pathetic widdle things. Rich uncle America will take pity on you - provided you're properly grateful!"

And, incidentally, when did the U.S. declare war on Venezuela and Iran? Unless we've done that, Chavez and Ahmadinejad aren't our "enemies," they're just not our friends. Why on earth should African representatives only be permitted to speak with national leaders the U.S. government likes?

And FYI, Texas isn't that nice of a state. In many ways we border on third world status.

FYI, yes it is.
Houston - Energy capital of the world, MD Anderson Cancer Center/Medical Center, NASA, 4th largest city in the US, one of the most diverse in the country with very low racial tension.

Austin/Kerrville - folk music center

Some of the most diverse geographical features in any single state (ok, I grant you it's a big state).

Lower taxes, far more freedoms than I experienced when I went to college in the Northeast.

Music Education - second only to New York in the highest-rated music programs in public schools (my wife teaches middle school music).

University of Texas - national college football champions.

One series away from baseball champions - Houston Astros.
One game away from NBA champions - Dallas Mavericks.

I could go on ....

I just dont get it. We dump so much aid into those countries and I doubt Venzualia and Iran have even talked about helping Africa. Why would they invite a bunch of tools they know we, the west, have problems with?

You're a bit misguided about what constitutes "aid."

Look at it this way. Would you support a bill to take a hundred million dollars of taxpayer money and give it to some millionaire that gave a hundred thousand dollars to help get a politician elected?

Of course not. A hundred million dollars to provide medical aid to children dying of cholera in a US protectorate? Well you'd have to be heartless to turn that down. So we give it to some South Pacific Island, or African village or whatever, but we say that it must be spent on US products. Still sounds fairly reasonable, right?

Well then, the US companies, knowing that this country is sitting on a hundred million dollars that it must either give to an American company, or use as toilet paper, marks their prices up by hudreds of percent. The electrolyte sucrose sachets that cure dysentary are sold by French companies for about 25 cents each and make a big profit. American companies charge five dollars each. Esentially over 90% of our "foreign aid" is just money laundering.

...lets say your a poor guy in a bad neighborhood. A rich guy comes in and says he will give you money to build up your house. You say ok. You see that theres two guys that dont have nearly as much money as the rich guy...and they are constantly fighting with the rich guy. Do you side with them because they may be your equal, financially, or do you side with the rich guy because he is totally superior in every way shape or form and can help you build up your house?


Hmmmm:rolleyes:

It depends. Is the rich guy going to expect that you let him sell drugs out of your living room? When he's cheating on his wife does he expect you to let him and his strumpet stay in your room while you sleep on the couch, and then lie to his wife and tell her that "yea, me and him were out all night at the bar, he wanted to leave, but I have a drinking problem. He felt bad for me and stayed here all night to make sure I didn't drown in my own vomit. You got a great guy there. I'm not gay or nothin' but if he wasn't married...?"

If so, I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that he can take his money and shove it up his ass.

University of Texas - national college football champions.

I could go on ....

Texas U's Law School has such high standards that they rejected Dubya, and he ended up having to settle for Yale business school.

Texas U's Law School has such high standards that they rejected Dubya, and he ended up having to settle for Yale business school.
I believe UT is in the top 100 law schools in the country, along with University of Houston.

I'll second that. I dont want my country's money going to that corrupt hell hole.
Well most of the aid just visits corrupt hell holes and comes right back to western companies.
"We the western government now give you 1 000 000$. Do what you ever want with it, but remember that you have to spend all of it to our companies, don't even think about doing something by yourself. Got it? Good."

*snip....
If so, I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that he can take his money and shove it up his ass.

Yep. Theres controls on what the money goes on, and the more you take, the less control you have. Take it off the US, IMF etc and they'll want roads, dams and privatisation. In countries with illiteracy over 70% and more. But that doesnt matter because forigen managers will run the workplace, leaving locals in less well paid jobs, unable to gain the experience to take over at the higher level.

And Chavez is not a dictator by the way.

The rest of the world fucking hates America. Until you realize that...you are not going to understand A LOT.

I just dont get it. We dump so much aid into those countries and I doubt Venzualia and Iran have even talked about helping Africa. Why would they invite a bunch of tools they know we, the west, have problems with?

Exactly how much aid do you "dump" on those countries? Maybe you'd like to tell us? I mean, you being able to spell Venezuela and all, you're obviously the Foreign Affairs expert in your compound.

They are trying to choose the lesser evıl thats all. They hate west because their local leaders are fed with guns and drugs by them, flaming civil wars. And their natural resources like diamonds are used to feed western economies among other things as african people die of hunger. Arabs and middle east doesnt care about them as they have their own problems.
African intellectuals and peaceful leaders are being assasinated, jailed, tortured and oppressed for so long that finally even the general population is realising the causes of their civil war. The drama in afrika is a long and sorrowful.
As for the aids to africa, its like giving them a few small fish instead of teaching and letting them catch their own. All that some powers care about is converting them to christianity destroying their ethnic and religious history, giving them a small spoon of honey if they obey and leaving them to die if they dont.

*Make some research on ex Cia and Kgb members memories about africa, have some about european colonization and racial wars too. Search diamond companies etc.

The rest of the world fucking hates America. Until you realize that...you are not going to understand A LOT.

And tell me, why DOES the rest of the world hate America? For what we have, or what we do?

If it's for what we have... revolt and set up American style government in your country. Oh, you may never make up 20-25% of the planetary GDP, but you'll have the liberties and very likely a standard of living that are close.

If it's for what we do... take a look at the world from our POV. You might well end up doing the same things yourself.


For everyone that says NFW: that's your perogative. But then don't hate us. We can't live like you any more than you can live like us.

And tell me, why DOES the rest of the world hate America? For what we have, or what we do?

If it's for what we have... revolt and set up American style government in your country. Oh, you may never make up 20-25% of the planetary GDP, but you'll have the liberties and very likely a standard of living that are close.

If it's for what we do... take a look at the world from our POV. You might well end up doing the same things yourself.


For everyone that says NFW: that's your perogative. But then don't hate us. We can't live like you any more than you can live like us.

*claps*
Well done on rising to the bait.

And tell me, why DOES the rest of the world hate America? For what we have, or what we do?http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0971394253/002-8561803-7582404?v=glance&n=283155
Read this book. Most people who say they hate America, or act like it (apart from the religious nuts) will probably agree with the arguments put forward in it.
Also, if you purchase and read it, that cuts the debate in this thread short.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0971394253/002-8561803-7582404?v=glance&n=283155
Read this book. Most people who say they hate America, or act like it (apart from the religious nuts) will probably agree with the arguments put forward in it.
Also, if you purchase and read it, that cuts the debate in this thread short.

Ah, got that book a few years back. I think there's a sequel to it as well.

Very informative, and nicely put together.

Uh...because Achmadinejad (who cares about sp) and Chavez...are our enemies."our enemies" ???

they are NOT my enemy.

Africa invites top anti-Americans to summit
BANJUL (Reuters) - Two of the world's most anti-American leaders, Hugo Chavez of Venezuela and Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, attended this weekend's Africa summit in Gambia to the consternation of Western diplomats.

Both lived up to their billing with Chavez railing against U.S. "hegemony" and Ahmadinejad blaming Western greed for "poverty, backwardness, regional conflicts, corruption, illicit drugs."

He said the Ahmadinejad invitation was apparently extended unilaterally by Gambian President Yahya Jammeh, and provoked criticism from some countries in the 53-member AU.

But Western diplomats suggested the two invitations may also have been intended to underline Africa's breakaway from the influence of former colonial powers in Europe.
"At one time the links with Europe were still strong. But in the 21st century Africa wants to show that these links have finally been broken," one European ambassador said.

They are saying Africa can have a position that differs with that of the West."

Gutto suggested that whereas there were strong and logical reasons to invite Venezuela, Ahmadinejad had probably pushed for an invitation to lobby for African support in Tehran's nuclear standoff with the West.

He said African countries were eager to hear about Chavez's policies toward Western oil companies.




Africa invites top anti-Americans to summit (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060702/ts_nm/africa_outsiders_dc)
---------------------------------------------------------------

Its just interesting to see that the African Union states would invite two people who are obviously...involved...with the West right now to something that is intended to voice the seperation of Africa from the Europeans and the West. I mean, I can understand that Africa wants to become self dependable and seperate itself from Europe and all...but why bring these two clowns into the picture? What is the purpose of having them there besides raising a few eyebrows in American and Europe?
Anyway, just an interesting article I thought I should make people aware of, thats all.
Did you read the article you linked? All your questions are answered right there.
I made the effort to link them for you. Bold goes with bold, underline with underline, you get the picture.

Added commentary:
Underline: Western diplomat speculate on why they were invited. Shall we consider they are right from the get or shall we see what are their agenda (being diplomat and all).

Bold: It seems it's not the African Union at all who invited them but one member. Shall we paint the whole of the US as slacked jawed yokels because some Arkansans is one? Would you object to such a characterisation?

I just dont get it. We dump so much aid into those countries and I doubt Venzualia and Iran have even talked about helping Africa. Why would they invite a bunch of tools they know we, the west, have problems with?

Ohhh I don't know.....Free will? The freedom to do so? The West not neccesarily speaking for Africa in terms of diplomatic relations with world leaders?

Just an idea.....

And your topic title is slightly misleading, you said it yourself, or you quoted it, that not all of Africa wanted to invite them, it was Gambia.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0971394253/002-8561803-7582404?v=glance&n=283155
Read this book. Most people who say they hate America, or act like it (apart from the religious nuts) will probably agree with the arguments put forward in it.
Also, if you purchase and read it, that cuts the debate in this thread short.

I flipped through that thing in the Barnes & Noble. As a literary work, I put it right up there with "1945" be Newt Gingrich. :rolleyes:

*claps*
Well done on rising to the bait.

Bait? Nah. I just like to hear the folks that don't understand fail about like they always do. :D

Nigeria alone is the 8th largest exporter of oil as well as now producing LNG. Most of it is handled in "joint ventures" with foreign companies, notably Royal Dutch Shell.

The implication I picked up from the Venezuela connection is the interest in their approach to removing foreign involvement in their oil industry and in making sure that the profits from oil production are retained by the producing country rather than by foreign investors.

In the case of LNG, something like 45% of the principal company is owned by the Dutch. That's 45% of all profits going straight out of the country.

Now these deals have presumably been brokered in the past because of the expertise of the foreign companies in actually making it happen. It would be a logical question to ask how to bring that expertise to an african nation without giving away half the pie. Anyone with any small success in that is going to arouse interest.

One of the biggest economic issues in Africa at the moment is self-suffiicency and free trade. You can see why there would be interest in hanging onto more of the profits from their natural resources. The search for oil reserves in africa continues and presumably more nations will have oil reserves located under their soil. It is in their interests to make the best deal to get that oil out without giving away all the profits.

The "anti-american" label put on this is very prejudicial and leads away from the truth.