NationStates Jolt Archive

Well today in class we were going over poetry by William Blake and it seems many of his poems attack religion for being to hypocritical. Needless to say that this caused a major debate one side saying religion isn't hypocritical others (including myself) saying it is. So how hypocritical is religion and its teachings? For example murder is a sin YET many witch burnings occured in the 18th and early 19th centuries in the name of religion. So in your opinion how hypocritical is it?

Well today in class we were going over poetry by William Blake and it seems many of his poems attack religion for being to hypocritical. Needless to say that this caused a major debate one side saying religion isn't hypocritical others (including myself) saying it is. So how hypocritical is religion and its teachings? For example murder is a sin YET many witch burnings occured in the 18th and early 19th centuries in the name of religion. So in your opinion how hypocritical is it?


Actualy about 1 or 2 witch burnings took place, some of the people accused of witchcraft where hung, some drowned and most aqiuted.

Religion is not hypocritical, after all religion is only an idea, you might as well say
music is hypocritical. Some religius people are, and some religious scripture is, but then some atheists people are and so are some atheist writtings *shrug* the world is a complex place after all.

I don’t know choosing one unprovable deity over another unprovable deity has always seemed rather silly to me if not hypocritical.

In the end I think having an un-provable source of “Right” or wrong used as justification for things regarding other religions has a massive potential for hypocrisy.

I think I remeber one thread that had all the verses in the bible that contradicted each other, it was huge.

I think I remeber one thread that had all the verses in the bible that contradicted each other, it was huge.
Clasic
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

YAY - something new and exciting - a religion debate....








:headbang:

YAY - something new and exciting - a religion debate....








:headbang:


hehe what have you no free will? Then don't contribute, man how is easy is it just to ignore it and go to a differant thread?

Ummmmm unless you secretly love the whole religion thing, umm ummm????

Very.

Thread over.

hehe what have you no free will? Then don't contribute, man how is easy is it just to ignore it and go to a differant thread?

Ummmmm unless you secretly love the whole religion thing, umm ummm????

I wasn't planning on contributing any further, merely stating an opinion, of sorts - that is what a forum is for.

Enjoy your topic

I wasn't planning on contributing any further, merely stating an opinion, of sorts - that is what a forum is for.

Enjoy your topic

Well, depending on the nature of the forum and what it was exactly made for.

Clasic
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html
Note that the King James version of the bible is known to have nearly 3,000 translation errors. Not a good source for bible knowledge.

It's not hypocritical. It's the people who interpret the religion to justify wrongdoing that are the hypocrites. In many ways, it's the same as people using science to justify racism or eugenics.

Well today in class we were going over poetry by William Blake and it seems many of his poems attack religion for being to hypocritical. Needless to say that this caused a major debate one side saying religion isn't hypocritical others (including myself) saying it is. So how hypocritical is religion and its teachings? For example murder is a sin YET many witch burnings occured in the 18th and early 19th centuries in the name of religion. So in your opinion how hypocritical is it?

Religion is NOT hypocritical. PEOPLE are hypocritical. I'm a religious person, and I'll be the first to tell you that we are the obvious example of hypocrisy. Most people are, but we are the more obvious ones. :headbang:

Well considering that the world would be a much more peaceful planet without religion, quite hypocritical.

why do people like to point fingers at their idealogical opponents?

That IS hypocritical.

Religion is not. Nor is Atheism (which is a form of religion)

People are hypocritical. Period.

To lump people of like beliefs together and say (indeed imply) they are the only hypocritical people in the world is just meanspirited and usually as wrong as ANY generalization of the sort.

Note that the King James version of the bible is known to have nearly 3,000 translation errors. Not a good source for bible knowledge.

The King James Version is "BAD" only if you're getting into semantics. If you understand the linguistics of it, and a little of the Greek and Hebrew from whence it comes, it's just fine.

But, having said that, the German (or Gutenburg) Bible has been proven to be the most accurate as far as meaning and emphasis goes.

Well considering that the world would be a much more peaceful planet without religion, quite hypocritical.

Actually, if we all started out a staunch atheists, the fights would be for land, wealth and power, but much more violent and the civil statures would be much worse.

Well considering that the world would be a much more peaceful planet without religion, quite hypocritical.

No, the world would be more peaceful if everyone belonged to the SAME religion (aka, MY religion). A Godless world is a worthless world.

(some would see this post as hypocritical)

Well considering that the world would be a much more peaceful planet without religion, quite hypocritical.

I'm sure the 100 million people killed in the USSR and the PRC would disagree with you there...atheist regimes are just as brutal if not more so than religious ones.

I'm sure the 100 million people killed in the USSR and the PRC would disagree with you there...atheist regimes are just as brutal if not more so than religious ones.

yes, but if there was no religion, people wouldn't have to kill religious people cause they wouldn't exist

Well considering that the world would be a much more peaceful planet without religion, quite hypocritical.


Hehe I love that sort of thing. Go on prove it then.

No, the world would be more peaceful if everyone belonged to the SAME religion (aka, MY religion). A Godless world is a worthless world.

(some would see this post as hypocritical)

Well the thing is, in most cases, religion is the victim.
However, if religion wasn't there, the problem would never exist.
Sort of like how you could argue that the Ku Klux Klan wouldn't exist if there were no black people.

So if religion is a victim which starts war (See World War 2) and brings many sides fighting for and against it.

And if religion starts wars..

What is the point of religion?
It is the anti-peace of the world in my opinion.

yes, but if there was no religion, people wouldn't have to kill religious people cause they wouldn't exist

They didn't kill religious people. They killed scientists, writers, politicians, technicians, engineers, soliders, and ordinary people just for not appearing overjoyed at receiving their rations. Religion played at best a modest role in the purges of Stalin and Mao.

Well the thing is, in most cases, religion is the victim.
However, if religion wasn't there, the problem would never exist.
Sort of like how you could argue that the Ku Klux Klan wouldn't exist if there were no black people.

So if religion is a victim which starts war (See World War 2) and brings many sides fighting for and against it.

And if religion is starts of wars..

What is the point of religion?
It is the anti-peace of the world in my opinion.

If Atheism is a religion, and Non-denominationalism is religion, and Agnosticism is religion- We're stuck with religion either way- the only thing to decide is WHICH religion.

I'd rather not go with Atheism (the official religion of Communism and Socialism). Christianity (in its pure unadulterated form, with Christ ruling the Planet aka the Millenium) sounds just fine and dandy to me.

Note that the King James version of the bible is known to have nearly 3,000 translation errors. Not a good source for bible knowledge.
One edition of the Bible in English had the word "not" left out of the 5th Commandment, making it say "Thou shalt commit adultery." The printers were fined a huge amount of 17th century money which was used to have a really nice set of Greek fonts created for the the Oxford Press.

They didn't kill religious people. They killed scientists, writers, politicians, technicians, engineers, soliders, and ordinary people just for not appearing overjoyed at receiving their rations. Religion played at best a modest role in the purges of Stalin and Mao.

you know what. i think people who do morally wrong things just shouldn't exist. there, covered them all

yes, but if there was no religion, people wouldn't have to kill religious people cause they wouldn't exist

Impossible-, see above post, 3 posts up. Religion will ALWAYS exist.

you know what. i think people who do morally wrong things just shouldn't exist. there, covered them all

The only downside is that there would be no free will....

Impossible-, see above post, 3 posts up. Religion will ALWAYS exist.

not if it doesn't

If Atheism is a religion, and Non-denominationalism is religion, and Agnosticism is religion- We're stuck with religion either way- the only thing to decide is WHICH religion.

I'd rather not go with Atheism (the official religion of Communism and Socialism). Christianity (in its pure unadulterated form, with Christ ruling the Planet aka the Millenium) sounds just fine and dandy to me.

Well yes, that's the thing.
If there was only one race of people, racism wouldn't exist.
If there was only one religion, religious battles wouldn't exist.

So if the world just decided upon something, it would solve alot.
*Except for the races, I think they are our only dividing line of culture*

Well the thing is, in most cases, religion is the victim.
However, if religion wasn't there, the problem would never exist.
Sort of like how you could argue that the Ku Klux Klan wouldn't exist if there were no black people.

So if religion is a victim which starts war (See World War 2) and brings many sides fighting for and against it.

And if religion starts wars..

What is the point of religion?
It is the anti-peace of the world in my opinion.


Thanks for adding that little 'in my opinion' it makes it easyer for me to keep me temper heheh! Now of course the question springs to mind, what makes you have this opinion?

For my opinion says that humans have always had violence in their history, and it seems to me every little dispute that we have is ultimatly sorted out using violence. I can see no reason why this would be differant if we did not have religion.

The only downside is that there would be no free will....

pffft, who needs that. how could we even know we didn't have free will?

The only downside is that there would be no free will....

Anyone who understands TRUE Christianity KNOWS that Agency is the First and one of the greatest gifts from God to His children.

Originally Posted by Londim
Well today in class we were going over poetry by William Blake and it seems many of his poems attack religion for being to hypocritical. Needless to say that this caused a major debate one side saying religion isn't hypocritical others (including myself) saying it is. So how hypocritical is religion and its teachings? For example murder is a sin YET many witch burnings occured in the 18th and early 19th centuries in the name of religion. So in your opinion how hypocritical is it?
Actualy about 1 or 2 witch burnings took place, some of the people accused of witchcraft where hung, some drowned and most aqiuted.
FYI: There were no witch trials or executions in the 18th and 19th centuries. Witch trials/executions in Europe were an intermittent occurrence during the period of the Inquisition, during the 15th and 16th centuries. Many people were burned, but most were hanged. (Burning was preferred for heretics, who might also be accused of witchcraft; hanging was the more common, less expensive method.) This is what modern Wiccans refer to as "the Burning Times." During this period over 10,000 people across Europe were killed and many tens of 1000s tortured/interrogated. Places where religious conflict was developing saw higher numbers of witch trials, which might start with isolated neighbor versus neighbor accusations or might be driven by touring witchfinders in the employ of the Inquisition. Germany, in particular (launch pad of the Protestant Reformation) saw outbreaks of witch crazes that killed hundreds in a single season, sometimes emptying whole villages of their female populations, according to some historical studies.

Witch trials faded into non-existence with a papal declaration (I forget which pope) that belief in witches was a heresy. This also signaled the beginning of the end for the Inquisition as an institution.

The Salem witch trials in North America happened nearly 100 years AFTER the last recorded witch trial in Europe. There have been none since that I know of.

Religion is not hypocritical, after all religion is only an idea, you might as well say music is hypocritical. Some religius people are, and some religious scripture is, but then some atheists people are and so are some atheist writtings *shrug* the world is a complex place after all.
I agree.

Well the thing is, in most cases, religion is the victim.
However, if religion wasn't there, the problem would never exist.
Sort of like how you could argue that the Ku Klux Klan wouldn't exist if there were no black people.

So if religion is a victim which starts war (See World War 2) and brings many sides fighting for and against it.

And if religion starts wars..

What is the point of religion?
It is the anti-peace of the world in my opinion.

I think, given the propensity of man toward violence, that the world would be just as violent without religion. We can be so creative in coming up with reasons to harm our neighbor...

If Atheism is a religion, and Non-denominationalism is religion, and Agnosticism is religion- We're stuck with religion either way- the only thing to decide is WHICH religion.

I'd rather not go with Atheism (the official religion of Communism and Socialism). Christianity (in its pure unadulterated form, with Christ ruling the Planet aka the Millenium) sounds just fine and dandy to me.

Heheh Atheisim is the offical religon of Communism and Soialism is it, then can you explain how I can be both a Socialist and a Sikh?

Well the thing is, in most cases, religion is the victim.
However, if religion wasn't there, the problem would never exist.
Sort of like how you could argue that the Ku Klux Klan wouldn't exist if there were no black people.

So if religion is a victim which starts war (See World War 2) and brings many sides fighting for and against it.

And if religion starts wars..

What is the point of religion?
It is the anti-peace of the world in my opinion.

If Black People didn't exist then no one would. Hence that is unavoidable either way.

World War 2 had little to do with religion. World War 2 was the Germans being disgruntled and impoverished under the treaty of Versailles and the forced to pay reparations from World War I (which was not religiously tied).

Thanks for adding that little 'in my opinion' it makes it easyer for me to keep me temper heheh! Now of course the question springs to mind, what makes you have this opinion?

For my opinion says that humans have always had violence in their history, and it seems to me every little dispute that we have is ultimatly sorted out using violence. I can see no reason why this would be differant if we did not have religion.

Well obviously, humans are the most violent species in the world.
However a high percentage of blood shed would drop without religion.

Well yes, that's the thing.
If there was only one race of people, racism wouldn't exist.
If there was only one religion, religious battles wouldn't exist.

So if the world just decided upon something, it would solve alot.
*Except for the races, I think they are our only dividing line of culture*

Yes, but the only people who've actually attempted that turned out to be nutcases- Hitler, the Popes of the Middle Ages, KKK, If only there was a humane way to "accomplish" this. :p

you know what. i think people who do morally wrong things just shouldn't exist. there, covered them all


Heheh yeah lets get onto morals, and discus how everybody has exactly the same set of moral principles! Ohh I'm loving this!

FYI: There were no witch trials or executions in the 18th and 19th centuries. Witch trials/executions in Europe were an intermittent occurrence during the period of the Inquisition, during the 15th and 16th centuries. Many people were burned, but most were hanged. (Burning was preferred for heretics, who might also be accused of witchcraft; hanging was the more common, less expensive method.) This is what modern Wiccans refer to as "the Burning Times." During this period over 10,000 people across Europe were killed and many tens of 1000s tortured/interrogated. Places where religious conflict was developing saw higher numbers of witch trials, which might start with isolated neighbor versus neighbor accusations or might be driven by touring witchfinders in the employ of the Inquisition. Germany, in particular (launch pad of the Protestant Reformation) saw outbreaks of witch crazes that killed hundreds in a single season, sometimes emptying whole villages of their female populations, according to some historical studies.

Witch trials faded into non-existence with a papal declaration (I forget which pope) that belief in witches was a heresy. This also signaled the beginning of the end for the Inquisition as an institution.

The Salem witch trials in North America happened nearly 100 years AFTER the last recorded witch trial in Europe. There have been none since that I know of.


I agree.

WE'VE FOUND ANOTHER WITCH!!! CAN WE BURN 'ER?! :p

Heheh yeah lets get onto morals, and discus how everybody has exactly the same set of moral principles! Ohh I'm loving this!

i'm just talkin about my morals, which are of course the only ones that are truly good

FYI: There were no witch trials or executions in the 18th and 19th centuries. Witch trials/executions in Europe were an intermittent occurrence during the period of the Inquisition, during the 15th and 16th centuries. Many people were burned, but most were hanged. (Burning was preferred for heretics, who might also be accused of witchcraft; hanging was the more common, less expensive method.) This is what modern Wiccans refer to as "the Burning Times." During this period over 10,000 people across Europe were killed and many tens of 1000s tortured/interrogated. Places where religious conflict was developing saw higher numbers of witch trials, which might start with isolated neighbor versus neighbor accusations or might be driven by touring witchfinders in the employ of the Inquisition. Germany, in particular (launch pad of the Protestant Reformation) saw outbreaks of witch crazes that killed hundreds in a single season, sometimes emptying whole villages of their female populations, according to some historical studies.




Thansk for your info.

World War 2 had little to do with religion. World War 2 was the Germans being disgruntled and impoverished under the treaty of Versailles and the forced to pay reparations from World War I (which was not religiously tied).

No, that disgruntlement merely caused Hitler to achieve supreme power over Germany. However then he had to act upon his scapegoat, the jews, and invade Poland.

It occurs to me that we wouldn't have ANY of these problems if PEOPLE didn't exist. So let's do ourselves and the world a favor, and just DIE!!!

:eek: :D

It occurs to me that we wouldn't have ANY of these problems if PEOPLE didn't exist. So let's do ourselves and the world a favor, and just DIE!!!

:eek: :D

here here!

Well obviously, humans are the most violent species in the world.
However a high percentage of blood shed would drop without religion.


You see you left out that lil 'in my opinion' which makes me loose my temper and say things like, yeah go on then prove that point that you just made, go on!

Heh but you can't coz it's is just conjecture, the truth is we can't know what you say is true, but somehow in my opinion I doubt it.

i'm just talkin about my morals, which are of course the only ones that are truly good


hehe okay point taken then:p

Well today in class we were going over poetry by William Blake and it seems many of his poems attack religion for being to hypocritical. Needless to say that this caused a major debate one side saying religion isn't hypocritical others (including myself) saying it is. So how hypocritical is religion and its teachings? For example murder is a sin YET many witch burnings occured in the 18th and early 19th centuries in the name of religion. So in your opinion how hypocritical is it?
simple, in those days, the King James Version of the bible was the most commonly used bible.

so let's look at these verses from the KJV...

Exodus 22:18
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

1 Samuel 15:23
For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

Micah 5:12
And I will cut off witchcrafts out of thine hand; and thou shalt have no more soothsayers:

Galatians 5:20
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

and much more. Now back then, there were trials and "Persuasions ala Inquisition" done to get these "witches" to repent and to save their souls.

many denied being witches, and that denial only harkened a long and painful death.

Unfortunately, most of these accused witches were denounced by some rival for petty (in reguard to taking someone's life) reason. Jelousy by women who saw someone as their rival, or by a husband who got his mistress pregnant.

The reason why it doesn't seem like breaking the commandment of "Tho Shalt not commit Murder" to them is that it's really not murder when compared to some of the verses of the KJV... that and in those days, Witchcraft was equated to Devil worship, druidism, and other "Heathen" practices that worship idols and not God. thus breaking a greater commandment that God has put forth.

Do I believe they (the witch hunters) were right? no. but they belived they were right.

hehe okay point taken then:p

yay! do i win?:)

WE'VE FOUND ANOTHER WITCH!!! CAN WE BURN 'ER?! :p
Sorry, bud, but at my last weigh-in, I was 1/2 a pound heavier than a duck. (Gotta keep up my Ho-Ho intake.) ;)

yay! do i win?:)


Umm let me think, yes if your set of moral principles is in actuality of a higer order than mine, then yes you win, if not though according to my morals you need to bath for three days and nights in a vat of wather measureing no less than 3 x 3 and no more than 5 x 5 whilst a stream of eels are poured over your head.

Sorry to butt in, but in my opinion I cannot see how a compassionate God can exist. And yes, religion is generally hypocritical.

Sorry to butt in

hehe....

Sorry, bud, but at my last weigh-in, I was 1/2 a pound heavier than a duck. (Gotta keep up my Ho-Ho intake.) ;)

Dangit, foulest of curses. I thought we ACTUALLY had one this time. :(

as a idea is.
it could be an idea, only when you are not alone

To a certain degree.

Yes, but the only people who've actually attempted that turned out to be nutcases- Hitler, the Popes of the Middle Ages, KKK, If only there was a humane way to "accomplish" this. :p

Hitler had too small of a mindframe to accomplish my goal.

An estimation was given that around 21% of the World's Population are non-believers. This means that about 1,386,000,000 people are non-believers.

So..
6,629,000,000 - 1,386,000,000 = 5,243,000,000 people to take 'care' of to purify the world.

Sadly, I don't have that kind of army..

Hitler had too small of a mindframe to accomplish my goal.

An estimation was given that around 21% of the World's Population are non-believers. This means that about 1,386,000,000 people are non-believers.

So..
6,629,000,000 - 1,386,000,000 = 5,243,000,000 people to take 'care' of to purify the world.

Sadly, I don't have that kind of army..

Especially seeing that most the people who would otherwise join your army are slated for death on you get that army. :p

This is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've seen in awhile, and I moderate a forum chock full of about 10,000 junior high kids.

Religion cannot be "hypocritical". The people who practice it can very easily be so, but religion has no more ability to have such traits than a pen. Religion is not hypocritical, it does not start wars, it does not force people to do anything, etc. Religion does nothing. People who use religion do many things.

This is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've seen in awhile, and I moderate a forum chock full of about 10,000 junior high kids.

Religion cannot be "hypocritical". The people who practice it can very easily be so, but religion has no more ability to have such traits than a pen. Religion is not hypocritical, it does not start wars, it does not force people to do anything, etc. Religion does nothing. People who use religion do many things.

We made that point earlier, but alas, you are young in the ways of the force and still have much more stupidity in other people to see.

Nobody cares what anybody thinks- unless they can argue about it.

Welcome to the club. May you be picked apart, ridiculed, mocked and deranged like the rest of us.

Have Fun :D

One edition of the Bible in English had the word "not" left out of the 5th Commandment, making it say "Thou shalt commit adultery." The printers were fined a huge amount of 17th century money which was used to have a really nice set of Greek fonts created for the the Oxford Press.
http://www.sptimes.com/2006/01/19/images/large/WK_0_wk19ink2_231790_0119.jpg
Ah yes, the "Wicked Bible":D