NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0607030107jul03,1,6574022.story?coll=chi-newslocal-hed

We just got rid of Gov. George Ryan. As a Republican, he embarrassed me and a ton of other Republicans. I thought no one could be worse. It appears Blagojevich has proven me wrong. He is shaping up to be worse than Ryan. This year is an election year. It's going to be ugly as the Republican candidate is a moron named Judie Bar Topinka. She is the same idiot who brought Alan Keyes in to run for senate. On top of this, Cook County voters voted for Jon Stroger despite the fact he lost half of his brain cells after a stroke. God help Illinois.

Yeah, thanks Chicago.

Does anyone from Wisconsin want them? That was the original plan BTW.

Go third party. GO! GO THIRD PARTY.

Go third party. GO! GO THIRD PARTY.

So they can split the R vote and keep the Daleycrats(separate from democrats) in power?

Yeah, I used to think Illinois was pretty screwed up.. until I moved to California.. It gets worse, believe me.. :p

Unfortunately, we have a 2 party system. I wish there was a strong 3rd party in Illinois.:headbang:

Yeah, I used to think Illinois was pretty screwed up.. until I moved to California.. It gets worse, believe me.. :p
Try living in the city of Chicago. Mix Illinois politics with the Daley Regime. My city is a dictatorship.:(

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0607030107jul03,1,6574022.story?coll=chi-newslocal-hed

We just got rid of Gov. George Ryan. As a Republican, he embarrassed me and a ton of other Republicans. I thought no one could be worse. It appears Blagojevich has proven me wrong. He is shaping up to be worse than Ryan. This year is an election year. It's going to be ugly as the Republican candidate is a moron named Judie Bar Topinka. She is the same idiot who brought Alan Keyes in to run for senate. On top of this, Cook County voters voted for Jon Stroger despite the fact he lost half of his brain cells after a stroke. God help Illinois.

Illinois is no longer in God's good graces. Republicans are a joke anyway.

Illinois is no longer in God's good graces. Republicans are a joke anyway.
It appears the Democrats in Illinois are about as bad if not worse with Blago and Michael Maddigan.

Illinois is no longer in God's good graces. Republicans are a joke anyway.
Could be worse.

Could be living in New Jersey.

Virginia seems to be quite well run, and we go back and forth from Democrat to Republican on the Governor.

But that's because you can only be governor for one term in Virginia. It seems to balance out quite nicely, and if a governor is an asshat, they won't be in office long.

Yeah, I used to think Illinois was pretty screwed up.. until I moved to California.. It gets worse, believe me.. :p

I lived in CA for over 4 years. They are silly, true.

However, I don't think you had a mayor bulldoze an airport that he didn't like while under injuction not to and get away w/ it because he controls the entire political machine.

A governor that doesn't even live in the capitol and makes everyone commute back and forth to Chicago because that's where his master is.

Does anyone from Wisconsin want them? That was the original plan BTW.Sorry, not enough cows. ;)

On top of this, Cook County voters voted for Jon Stroger despite the fact he lost half of his brain cells after a stroke. God help Illinois.
A Democrat lost half his brain cells?
I'm surprised he hasn't joined GOP.

Badaboom!

A Democrat lost half his brain cells?
I'm surprised he hasn't joined GOP.

Badaboom!

YAY! :D

Try living in the city of Chicago. Mix Illinois politics with the Daley Regime. My city is a dictatorship.:(

I lived 10 miles north of the city for 15 years.. I've got my share of stories.. :p

I get the feeling that Illinois has been corrupt from one end to the other for a long, long time, regardless of which party you're talking about.

Patrick Fitzgerald is going to destroy Blago. No politician is safe. He took down Ryan, Scooter Libby, and now he will take out Blago and Maddigan.

Try living in the city of Chicago. Mix Illinois politics with the Daley Regime. My city is a dictatorship.:(

More like a monarchy, first the dad and now the son. I feel sorry for Chicago.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0607030107jul03,1,6574022.story?coll=chi-newslocal-hed

We just got rid of Gov. George Ryan. As a Republican, he embarrassed me and a ton of other Republicans. I thought no one could be worse. It appears Blagojevich has proven me wrong. He is shaping up to be worse than Ryan. This year is an election year. It's going to be ugly as the Republican candidate is a moron named Judie Bar Topinka. She is the same idiot who brought Alan Keyes in to run for senate. On top of this, Cook County voters voted for Jon Stroger despite the fact he lost half of his brain cells after a stroke. God help Illinois.


It might be worth pointing out that Topinka did not bring in Keyes, he was brought in over her objections and part of the reason he had so little support and funding was because she actively manuvered against him. She lost her seat as the head of the Illinois Republican party largely because the ultra-conservative downstaters viewed her moderate politics and opposition to Keyes as a betrayal.

That said, Topinka comes from the near south suburbs of Chicago and she'll be just as dirty(though probably a little less blatant) as our previous governors. Illinois is a corrupt state, it always has been. Honestly, I'm a little shocked that anyone is suprised that Blago is being investigated. He advanced through the ranks because he married Dick Mell's daughter and buddied up to King Daley, you can't get much closer to corruption than that unless you're the one actually delivering the sack of cash...

Still, Topinka gets my vote because any vote against the interests of Daley is a good vote. A republican governor means that there will be les resitance to federal investigations of the Mayor's office, it means that Daley won't have an automatic veto over any gun legislation he dislikes, and it means that power in the state won't be so consolidated. She might not be a good candidate, but shes better than the status quo.

Patrick Fitzgerald is going to destroy Blago. No politician is safe. He took down Ryan, Scooter Libby, and now he will take out Blago and Maddigan.

Fitzgerald is a machine, its true, but hes trying to empty the ocean with a bucket. You can take down 100 corrupt politicians in Illinois and they'll just be replaced as long as you have Daley in office. He is the center of the corruption, and because he wields so much power everyone else gets away with it. Even the republicans would be less corrupt in Illinois if it wasn't the cost of doing buisness anywhere in cook county. Imagine you're a downstate politician, do you really think that there is any incentive for you to not have your hand in the till a little bit when everyone up north is getting away with so much more?

I get the feeling that Illinois has been corrupt from one end to the other for a long, long time, regardless of which party you're talking about.

indeed. but it seems to work well enough, as long as you don't start selling commercial truck drivers' licenses to anyone with the cash to pay the bribe.

the ultra-conservative downstaters

and that's the group that scares me in il

and that's the group that scares me in il

I thought you cheeseheads hated all of IL. Don't you guys use the term "FIP" too?

I thought you cheeseheads hated all of IL. Don't you guys use the term "FIP" too?

i'm a chicago boy through and through. sheboygan is something of a temporary exile.

and the term is actually "fib" - fucking illinois bastards. i prefer the term "colonial overlords" myself.

Go third party. GO! GO THIRD PARTY.


It's always seemed weird to me that you yanks only have two parties...well to main parties, and when anyone tries to get a third one going, they get laughed out of the room. Why is everything so black and white?

and that's the group that scares me in il
And Daley doesn't?

Well, I'm glad I live in Virginia.

i'm a chicago boy through and through. sheboygan is something of a temporary exile.

and the term is actually "fib" - fucking illinois bastards. i prefer the term "colonial overlords" myself.

Ah, the first part makes it all make sense. Shall I assume you don't tell too many people in Wisconsin about being from Illinois?

We say FIP for fucking Illinois people on this side of the lake. Of course, we prefer you Illinoians to Ohioans.

And Daley doesn't?

no more so than all political elites everywhere do. at least he's all focused on wealth and power and the general "look at how much more awesome my city is than your's" competition, rather than those crazy fucks downstate who want to roll us back to the dark ages.

Ah, the first part makes it all make sense. Shall I assume you don't tell too many people in Wisconsin about being from Illinois?

We say FIP for fucking Illinois people on this side of the lake. Of course, we prefer you Illinoians to Ohioans.

at least we know how to care for our great lake. crazy ohio people and their waterways that catch fire. we just turned a river around and sent our pollution to it's proper home down south.

i'm fairly open about being from il, but i've got some wisconsin cred since i went to college here and have lived here for several years since college, with a brief round of living in idaho (to resume this august, actually). i can even speak the native language if i have to, and can partake of the various indigenous customs without much problem.

no more so than all political elites everywhere do. at least he's all focused on wealth and power and the general "look at how much more awesome my city is than your's" competition, rather than those crazy fucks downstate who want to roll us back to the dark ages.


Daley couldn't give two shits how the city looks to the rest of the world. Every single major competitive initiative Daley has launched as been focused on creating more construction contracts for his buddies down in Bridgeport. All Daley cares about is making money for his friends and consoldating as much raw power as he can. The only thing different between Daley and his father is that he is less focused on actively screwing minorities.

Besides, Daley doesn't exactly have a healthy respect for civil rights. Between the way he allows the police to act and his stance on guns, he is almost as bad as the religious conservatives downstate. Almost.

i can even speak the native language if i have to, and can partake of the various indigenous customs without much problem.

Which means you can talk about the Packers and drink Leinenkugels?

It's always seemed weird to me that you yanks only have two parties...well to main parties, and when anyone tries to get a third one going, they get laughed out of the room. Why is everything so black and white?
That's a good question. It's interesting to note that the only thing a third party has ever done is replaced a major party. It's like Major League Baseball. There are several leagues out there (Pacific League, Central League, etc.), but only two are considered major (American League and National League). In theory, if the commissioner deemed that one of the leagues were too terrible to compete as a major league (*cough*National League*cough*), then he could demote that league and promote another. Note that this has NEVER happened, and probably NEVER will. Like this, we have several parties (Libertarian, Green, Peace & Freedom, etc.) but only two are considered major (Democratic and Republican). If the candidates from party have been too terrible to truly compete (*cough*Democrats*cough*), then the electorate will find a better party to replace them (I dream of my party [Libertarian] becoming major). This HAS happened, and probably WILL again. The three times are the Democrats replacing the Federalists, the Whigs replacing the Democrat-Republicans, and the Republicans replacing the Whigs. As I said, I dream of the Libertarians replacing either major party, and if they both continue to be run by utter and complete douchebags, it may just happen. (The baseball references are curtesy of George Will).

Besides, Daley doesn't exactly have a healthy respect for civil rights. Between the way he allows the police to act and his stance on guns, he is almost as bad as the religious conservatives downstate. Almost.

What's wrong with being a conservative and being religious? I am. (my political compass is (8.63, 0.21), mind you)

And I'm up for an assassination of Daley....

Maybe that's why he has strict gun control laws. HE knows he'd be shot by an angry mob if he didn't rob the people of their right to own weaponry.

And who says that we don't need guns to overthrow tyrannical regimes. :D

I think Rod is a good man, and a great governor. Then again, I have talked with him personally,one on one quite a few times when campaiginng for him, plus i parade around with his bumper sticker :D

I get the feeling that Illinois has been corrupt from one end to the other for a long, long time, regardless of which party you're talking about.


-blames chicago-

Honestly I think Illinois should Annex STL, and give chicago over to WI.

Honestly I think Illinois should Annex STL, and give chicago over to WI.

Better idea: purge the Chicago leadership.

Or, purge Chicago. Whichever. I live in Pennsylvania, so meh.

Well, rapes are down in percentage in Illinois so it cant all be bad, they're up by 6% in most other parts of the country.:(

Which means you can talk about the Packers and drink Leinenkugels?

pretty much, yeah

Honestly I think Illinois should Annex STL, and give chicago over to WI.

eventually there will be a lake michigan megacity extending from milwaukee (or perhaps even sheboygan or even all the way up to green bay - though that way would probably loop around the other side of lake winnebago instead) all the way over to like benton harbor or so in michigan. it will defacto become a state unto itself, simply because the people from elsewhere in the states it will occupy already disapprove of chicago and milwaukee and the northern indiana counties. and lo, the urbanites shall rejoice.

I think Rod is a good man, and a great governor. Then again, I have talked with him personally,one on one quite a few times when campaiginng for him, plus i parade around with his bumper sticker :D


So you support him spending tens of thousands of dollars in travel fees because he wants to live in Chicago instead of the governors mansion where the government is?

You support his hypocrisy in making "ethics" rules while at the same time breaking the law by handing out government jobs to friends and family?

You support his "cost saving" measures that basically just push the debts to later generations and end up costing millions more?

He may be a "nice guy" but politically he's just as bad as Ryan and nearly every other politician out there.

Corrupt politicians? What's new?

It might be worth pointing out that Topinka did not bring in Keyes, he was brought in over her objections and part of the reason he had so little support and funding was because she actively manuvered against him. She lost her seat as the head of the Illinois Republican party largely because the ultra-conservative downstaters viewed her moderate politics and opposition to Keyes as a betrayal.

And thank God she did resist them. Keyes is a whackjob. And a wretched piece of shit as a father. I hate people who turn against those that matter in their lives because of some "higher principle". It's weakness, not strength.

That said, Topinka comes from the near south suburbs of Chicago and she'll be just as dirty(though probably a little less blatant) as our previous governors. Illinois is a corrupt state, it always has been. Honestly, I'm a little shocked that anyone is suprised that Blago is being investigated. He advanced through the ranks because he married Dick Mell's daughter and buddied up to King Daley, you can't get much closer to corruption than that unless you're the one actually delivering the sack of cash...

Yeah, and yeah. Some famous "quotista" has it that Illinois survives and thrives not despite the corruption but because of it, at this point...

Still, Topinka gets my vote because any vote against the interests of Daley is a good vote. A republican governor means that there will be les resitance to federal investigations of the Mayor's office, it means that Daley won't have an automatic veto over any gun legislation he dislikes, and it means that power in the state won't be so consolidated. She might not be a good candidate, but shes better than the status quo.

I hate to agree here, but I (grudgingly) do. She's "socially liberal" compared to the downstate Republicans, and hasn't tried to put forth any really insane or blatantly racist pet issues as if our political future depended on it (coughJimOberweiscough).

Does it really matter who the governor of the state is anyway? Doesn't Daley pretty much run the entire place out of his palace in Chicago?

Does it really matter who the governor of the state is anyway? Doesn't Daley pretty much run the entire place out of his palace in Chicago?

W/ his pet in office yes, w/o he's limited to Chicago and the suburbs.

I think Rod is a good man, and a great governor. Then again, I have talked with him personally,one on one quite a few times when campaiginng for him, plus i parade around with his bumper sticker :D


As was mentioned before, he's likely a great guy (I feel the same about Clinton), but he's done some stuff that doesn't exactly enamor him to anyone. Like talking about how he wouldn't cut funding for health, education, or public housing...then, later on, raiding the coffers for all three, in order to "balance the budget" easily, apparently just to keep the republicans from having ammunition against him.

This kind of stuff hurts us pretty badly.

What's wrong with being a conservative and being religious? I am. (my political compass is (8.63, 0.21), mind you)
And I'm up for an assassination of Daley....
Maybe that's why he has strict gun control laws. HE knows he'd be shot by an angry mob if he didn't rob the people of their right to own weaponry.
And who says that we don't need guns to overthrow tyrannical regimes. :D

"Who says..." What? Nobody said anything pro or con, you gunfondling nerd. :rolleyes:
We were talking about his abuse of police authority. That doesn't automatically segue into a "Sic Semper Tyrannis" knucklehead-fest.

I thought you said you were a conservative. If so, don't suddenly advocate regime change by assassination. It makes you sound like some Sendero Luminoso or RCP fathead. "Conservatism" implies you have some respect for the political process. Hopefully more so than that of some Chicago politicos.

Given that, I also hope that your willingness to zap the Mayor is predicated on some thing more than his stance on guns. Something, I don't know, a little across-the-board that actually threatens you and those you care about? Like, if he was starving you out, or his policies were actively designed to put you in harm's way...but a mere absence of "assault weapons" (admittedly a poorly-created and ridiculuosly-enforced law) in your home is not a direct threat to you.

Really, why would you get him? What's the threat? This is a real question.

And thank God she did resist them. Keyes is a whackjob. And a wretched piece of shit as a father. I hate people who turn against those that matter in their lives because of some "higher principle". It's weakness, not strength.

yeah, that was just not cool at all. i haven't been keeping up with her, but maya (his daughter) had a bit of a rough time finding a place to live on short notice back then, and was recently having issues applying for financial aid for college. apparently being quite publicly kicked out doesn't affect your legal status as a dependant, and the school wanted her parents' to provide a bunch of information. and, of course, her loving christian parents aren't willing to have even that much contact with her now.

Yeah, and yeah. Some famous "quotista" has it that Illinois survives and thrives not despite the corruption but because of it, at this point...

that actually makes a bit of sense, when you compare the corrupt areas to those places downstate where they have bars in the middle of nowhere called "the long branch" whose sign is just a picture of a noose on a tree. and yes, this bar actually exists - its out on US 136 somewhere.

W/ his pet in office yes, w/o he's limited to Chicago and the suburbs.

especially because the rulers of a good number of the suburbs are hopelessly inept

that actually makes a bit of sense, when you compare the corrupt areas to those places downstate where they have bars in the middle of nowhere called "the long branch" whose sign is just a picture of a noose on a tree. and yes, this bar actually exists - its out on US 136 somewhere.

One of my professors, also a Catholic priest, went through a town called Caro. As far as I am aware, Caro is in Illinois, and not too far south, IIRC. Though my geography is shite.

My prof, when pulled over for a faulty tail light, made sure to hide his collar.

Because, as he told us, Caro is Klan. There are whole towns in IL that are Klan.

It's a different kind of corruption.

It's not just sickeningly criminal, and done for criminal motives of personal profit. Which, by the way, is bad enough.

The motives are purely treasonous and anti-American.

THAT'S the kind of thing that makes me start thinking about scopes and ammo bins.
EDIT: THank you for the heads-up re: spelling:)

One of my professors, also a Catholic priest, went through a town called Cairo. As far as I am aware, Cairo is in Illinois, and not too far south, IIRC. Though my geography is shite.

My prof, when pulled over for a faulty tail light, made sure to hide his collar.

Because, as he told us, Cairo is Klan. There are whole towns in IL that are Klan.

It's a different kind of corruption.

It's not just sickeningly criminal, and done for criminal motives of personal profit. Which, by the way, is bad enough.

The motives are purely treasonous and anti-American.

THAT'S the kind of thing that makes me start thinking about scopes and ammo bins.

It's spelled Caro. People in Illinois just pronounce it like Cairo.

Better idea: purge the Chicago leadership.
Or, purge Chicago. Whichever. I live in Pennsylvania, so meh.

I just read the above again.

What's with the hate for Chicago?

More importantly, is your last name McKelvey?

Think carefully before answering;)

There are whole towns in IL that are Klan.

It's a different kind of corruption.

It's not just sickeningly criminal, and done for criminal motives of personal profit. Which, by the way, is bad enough.

The motives are purely treasonous and anti-American.

THAT'S the kind of thing that makes me start thinking about scopes and ammo bins.

it's not exactly corruption. it just good, old-fashioned, downstate crazy.

(and, actually, i think it really is 'cairo', and they just pronounce it 'stockholm' - they've also got a 'havana' and an 'athens' down there)

What's wrong with being a conservative and being religious? I am. (my political compass is (8.63, 0.21), mind you)

Aside from the fact that your compatriots show a startling disresect for the individual liberties that made this county great, a combination of myopia and political gamesmanship whose only logical end is an authoritarian government, and an inherant respect ofr authority that I can only describe as creepy? Nothing, I guess...

I think Rod is a good man, and a great governor. Then again, I have talked with him personally,one on one quite a few times when campaiginng for him, plus i parade around with his bumper sticker :D


I cannot comment directly on whether he is a good man or not, but a great governor? How can you say that? I mean, but the majority of his tenure has been marked by medicority. I can only realy site one policy position that he has taken in his entire time in office that I have found positive(forcing pharmacists to have someone on duty who will dispense birth control). Even then, you have some of the truely damaging stances he has taken(such as cutting special education dollars in order to help pay for universal pre-school and generally treating Illinois like a state with a bottomless budget). How can you get excited about a candidate like that?

Honestly, I'm not trying to be cruel or sarcastic, but I've never really encountered someone who was excited about a Blago campaign. Is there something I'm missing? The guy has always seemed to me to be a mediocre candidate who made it to the governor's mansion because he was always marginally better than his opponents, and he only got into that position because of nepotism and the Chicago Machine...

Could be living in New Jersey.
Ungh, don't even talk to me about the situation here. It's insane.

I hate to agree here, but I (grudgingly) do. She's "socially liberal" compared to the downstate Republicans, and hasn't tried to put forth any really insane or blatantly racist pet issues as if our political future depended on it (coughJimOberweiscough).

Shes a shade right of moderate, shes fiscally conservative while still being somewhat progressive(meaning shes obsessed with the idea of efficency), she isn't quite as left as I would like on the abortion issue, but she isn't so driven by it that she is likely to go out of her way to go against the status quo, she isn't openly hostile to any constitutional rights, and shes not known for suffering fools gladly. She sure as hell isn't my ideal candidate, but unless something spectacular happens, shes likely the best we'll get this time around.

Besides, it won't take a two thirds majority to make Illinois the 49th state with her in office...

Really, why would you get him? What's the threat? This is a real question.


In violation of a court order and under cover of night, the man destroyed an airport while complaining about how the city's other two airports were too congested because this specific strip of land interefered with his concept of city beautification. He has placed cameras at multiple intersections of the city in order to allow the police to watch those neighborhoods and the placement of said cameras is obviously racially motivated. He has engaged in an aggressive campaign to ticket parked cars for imagined violations as a means of generating tax revenue becuse "most of them will just pay instead of contesting it." He and his family have documented mob connections going back to his father's tenure. EVERY single person in Daley's immediate circle has been implicated in corruption scandals. He has willfully and consciously signed into law city ordinances that he believed violated the right of free association because he could. He has wasted billions of taxpayer dollars on giving sweetheart deals to his political allies in order to beautify white(and only white) neighborhoods. He has used the city power of eminent domain in order to intimidate private landowners from purchasing land that the city owns because his friends wanted to purchase the same plot for a lower price. He has unilaterally destroyed private property because, despite deeds saying otherwise, he decided that they city owned all riverbanks. He used his political influence to help his son out of charges for a racially motivated attempted murder that happened on his property. Need me to go on?

I'm not saying I'd take a shot at the mayor, but I'm also not saying I'd shed a tear if someone else did. Hell, if I was on a jury trying the man who murdered Daley I'd be wrestling with myself over the concept of nullification. He is a bad man, and as corrupt a politician as they come. I'm 25 years old and I can only remember two mayors. My father is close to sixty and he can only remember five. A Daley has been in the Mayor's office for 38 of the last 51 years, and a lot of damage has been done to the city by the corruption, racism, and naked will to power.

im just surprised us illinois ins have enough ppl on nation states to even run a politicol forum on just illinois, anyhoos no matter who the governor will be illinois is going to be liberal in the senate and the house anyways so it wont and nvr has mattered to much

In violation of a court order and under cover of night, the man destroyed an airport while complaining about how the city's other two airports were too congested because this specific strip of land interefered with his concept of city beautification.

that's my favorite example actually - the sheer audacity of it. and, of course, nothing happened.

eventually there will be a lake michigan megacity extending from milwaukee (or perhaps even sheboygan or even all the way up to green bay - though that way would probably loop around the other side of lake winnebago instead) all the way over to like benton harbor or so in michigan. it will defacto become a state unto itself, simply because the people from elsewhere in the states it will occupy already disapprove of chicago and milwaukee and the northern indiana counties. and lo, the urbanites shall rejoice.
Okay, that's cool and all, but that city will only have any power in Wisconsin and Illinois. Indiana's portion would either be balanced or overpowered by Indianapolis, and Michigan's would be by Detroit. It's like if Erie and Buffalo becama a megacity. Would either be large enough to overwhelm Philidelphia and New York respectively? I highly doubt it. Hell, in California, San José, Oakland and San Francisco have become a megacity (it may not seem like a big deal, but it's happened within my lifetime, so I watched it happen), but they can't overpower Los Angeles.

. He has placed cameras at multiple intersections of the city in order to allow the police to watch those neighborhoods and the placement of said cameras is obviously racially motivated. He has engaged in an aggressive campaign to ticket parked cars for imagined violations as a means of generating tax revenue becuse "most of them will just pay instead of contesting it." He and his family have documented mob connections going back to his father's tenure. EVERY single person in Daley's immediate circle has been implicated in corruption scandals. He has willfully and consciously signed into law city ordinances that he believed violated the right of free association because he could. He has wasted billions of taxpayer dollars on giving sweetheart deals to his political allies in order to beautify white(and only white) neighborhoods. He has used the city power of eminent domain in order to intimidate private landowners from purchasing land that the city owns because his friends wanted to purchase the same plot for a lower price. He has unilaterally destroyed private property because, despite deeds saying otherwise, he decided that they city owned all riverbanks. He used his political influence to help his son out of charges for a racially motivated attempted murder that happened on his property. Need me to go on?

Hmmm. A good solid response. And thank you for it:) . Though you weren't the guy I was talking specifically to, I suspect that your response is much more clearheaded than that of what the Pennsylvania poster would have (or might) say. Good.

You've stirred memories of some stuff I had willfully forgotten.
You're right. Daley Jr. is a madda-f@kka, and the fact that he's "not as bad as his dad" is insufficient reason for me to hand-wave his ugliness.

I think, from the manner in which he has thrown money around, Daley doesn't mind enacting de-facto racist agendas of his cronies, as long as they serve him. He has, IIRC, thrown money towards the upscaling and support of Black neighborhoods...but they were neighborhoods like Bronzeville, which contains many rich residents still, and is ripe for a new boom, to become the "next Wicker Park".

From the pattern, poor people get the shaft in a Daley world. It just so happens that the poorest of Chicago happen to have brown-to-dark brown skin, and be confined to certain areas for convenience. Har de har har.:mad:

In your post above, you mention (I think) the "gang association laws", the curtailment and violation of the rights of certain people to associate freely...

I agree with the sickness and wrongness of these laws on the face of it. Some of my students have suffered terribly because of this, and I've had to look into it.

Basically, for living in neighborhoods fucking CONTROLLED for two generations by the GDN or BPSN or some other scumbags, these kids get arrested en masse for the crimes of 1)being Black, 2)wearing Bulls/Sixers/Magic/U of I or any other sports gear, and 3)having friends. Once they're dragged in, they are automatically "gang associates". Regardless
of any actual charges.

But Daley isn't the beginning nor end of that trail. I've been researching these laws' pros and cons, and it's...really really long and contentious.

And a whole 'nother thread.

Sorry, I have to keep this short. I responded before in a longer response, and the list ate my fucking post. My fingers are tired.

But again, thanks for the detailed, honest response.

Try living in the city of Chicago. Mix Illinois politics with the Daley Regime. My city is a dictatorship.:(

They don't call it "Shit-cago" for nothing.

Okay, that's cool and all, but that city will only have any power in Wisconsin and Illinois. Indiana's portion would either be balanced or overpowered by Indianapolis, and Michigan's would be by Detroit. It's like if Erie and Buffalo becama a megacity. Would either be large enough to overwhelm Philidelphia and New York respectively? I highly doubt it. Hell, in California, San José, Oakland and San Francisco have become a megacity (it may not seem like a big deal, but it's happened within my lifetime, so I watched it happen), but they can't overpower Los Angeles.

ah, but this is where ye olde urban secession comes in...

They don't call it "Shit-cago" for nothing.

and who calls it that?

and who calls it that?
DesignatedMarksman, apparently.

I think, from the manner in which he has thrown money around, Daley doesn't mind enacting de-facto racist agendas of his cronies, as long as they serve him. He has, IIRC, thrown money towards the upscaling and support of Black neighborhoods...but they were neighborhoods like Bronzeville, which contains many rich residents still, and is ripe for a new boom, to become the "next Wicker Park".

From the pattern, poor people get the shaft in a Daley world. It just so happens that the poorest of Chicago happen to have brown-to-dark brown skin, and be confined to certain areas for convenience. Har de har har.:mad:

I kind of agree. Still, I think that you underestimate the racism of the Daley administration. At heart, Daley is still an Irish kid from Bridgeport, thats where his friends and family are, thats the game he plays. If you look at the patronage positions handed out, you see that they're all Irish, Polish, and Italian, if you look at the hired truck scandal, what you see is Daley deliberately creating a program to give favortism to minorities and then diliberately handing the whole thing to a group of mobbed up friends backhome who created fake minority buisnesses. Also, I think that you need to keep in mind just how bad his father was. I haven't known many kids who grew up with parents as openly racist as Old Man Daley was that didn't end up with at least some pretty strong subtle racist attitudes. It takes a special kind of hate to build a highway with the intent of keeping the "darkies" out of your neighborhood.

And lets not forget the little black boy who was beaten half to death with bats for riding his bike on the wrong block a few years back. It was amazing how light the courts went on hi attackers.

The only reason many people dislike Rod is because he is a typical chicago democrat, aka anti-gun. Im sure if he went to a campaign rally with an NRA pin, with some sort of automatic rifle, the state would hail him as King.

Here are some things he has done for Illinois:After the 2002 elections, Democrats had control of the Illinois House, Senate, and all but one statewide office. Since taking office, Blagojevich has since signed numerous pieces of progressive legislation such as ethics reform, death penalty reform, a state Earned Income Tax Credit, and expansions of health programs like KidCare and FamilyCare. Blagojevich signed a bill in 2005 that prohibited discrimination based on sexual orientation in employment, housing, public accommodations, and credit.

Other notable actions of his term include a strict new ethics law and a comprehensive death penalty reform bill that was written by now-U.S. Senator Barack Obama (back when he was serving as an Illinois State Senator), and the late U.S. Sen. Paul M. Simon.

Despite an annual budget crunch, Blagojevich has overseen an increase in funding for health care and education every year without raising general sales or income taxes. He has, however, been criticized by Republicans and many moderate Democrats for failing to adequately fund the state pension system. On 10 January 2006, Blagojevich announced a proposal for a new three billion (US) Dollar spending plan for Illinois roads, mass transit, and schools, to be paid for by increased tax revenue and new gambling proposals (such as Keno and Lottery games). The proposal met with immediate opposition by members of the Republican Party in Illinois and many Democrats, who view it as "an election year ploy." The suggestion to legalize Keno within Illinois was later withdrawn
Another early 2006 proposal included "universal preschool" for all three and four year old children in Illinois. Legislation authorizing the program was adopted as part of the fiscal 2007 budget.

Governor Blagojevich is a long time supporter of gun control. He has tried to raise the price of an Illinois Firearm Owners Identification (FOID) card from $5.00 to $500.00, saying that such a large increase was necessary so people would think twice about wanting to own a gun . Blagojevich vetoed 3 gun bills in 2005,which would have:

Eliminated the police database of gun purchases
Eliminated the waiting period for someone wanting to buy a rifle or shotgun,
Overridden local laws regulating transport of firearms (see [5]).

In February 2006, in his "State of the State" address, he talked of the need for a state ban on semi-automatic firearms, prompting threats from several gunmakers in the state to leave. Among these were ArmaLite Inc., Rock River Arms, Les Baer Custom and the legendary Springfield Armory (see [6]).

In October 2005, the State of Illinois had $1.4 billion in overdue medical bills, yet in November 2005, Blagojevich created two new government agencies and signed the All Kids health insurance bill into law. The bill, criticized as Socialist medicine by its opponents, obligates Illinois to provide affordable, comprehensive health insurance to every child in the state

I guess people don't like socialist health care, or equal oppurtunity for all?

let's not forget that he DOESN'T have to live in the governor's mansion, and he opted out because of his infant daughter.

As for any ethical disruptions, i can't defend him there, because I haven't really been paying attention to much lately in Illinois politics.

I kind of agree. Still, I think that you underestimate the racism of the Daley administration. {snip} I haven't known many kids who grew up with parents as openly racist as Old Man Daley was that didn't end up with at least some pretty strong subtle racist attitudes. It takes a special kind of hate to build a highway with the intent of keeping the "darkies" out of your neighborhood.
And lets not forget the little black boy who was beaten half to death with bats for riding his bike on the wrong block a few years back. It was amazing how light the courts went on hi attackers.

Yeah, but let's not completely merge the effective entrenched racism of this city's entire history with the opportunist racism of one current mayor. We've already got enough to hate him for. Whether or not he's a racist scumbag, there's no getting around that he's a fucking gangster, and in a just city, would be in jail like the Mayor of Cicero.:p

EDIT: Wait, DID she go to jail? Or did she just run off to parts unknown with the money she stole?

I'm not a native, I guess I'm still learning about the depth of racism in Chi. I have an idea of the breadth, i.e., everywhere.

But, ah hell, I dunno. Everytime I love living in Chicago, something comes out and reminds me I'm also in "the Midwest". Chicago citizen's attitudes just don't seem as racist as say, the suburbs outside of Chicago , or those outside in Illinois.

I still don't hate him as much as, say, Jesse Helms, who not only never actually repudiated his views on White Supremacy, but also made not-so-veiled threats against the President, in my lifetime.

Yeah, but let's not completely merge the effective entrenched racism of this city's entire history with the opportunist racism of one current mayor. We've already got enough to hate him for. Whether or not he's a racist scumbag, there's no getting around that he's a fucking gangster, and in a just city, would be in jail like the Mayor of Cicero.:p

I'm not a native, I guess I'm still learning about the depth of racism in Chi. I have an idea of the breadth, i.e., everywhere.

But, ah hell, I dunno. Everytime I love living in Chicago, something comes out and reminds me I'm also in "the Midwest". Chicago citizen's attitudes just don't seem as racist as say, the suburbs outside of Chicago , or those outside in Illinois.

I still don't hate him as much as, say, Jesse Helms, who not only never actually repudiated his views on White Supremacy, but also made not-so-veiled threats against the President, in my lifetime.

Racism is definitly prevalent outside of Chicago. i think that's the only thing i like about chicago, being most liberal part of the state. Down here, south of I70, there is a lot of racism prevalent. I work with one, and honestly want to slap the hell out of him half the time. Also the suburbanites are rather racist as well. Stupid white, rich kids...:(

i live in east peoria and i think that the governor is alot better compared to the mayor of peoria!:headbang:

i live in east peoria and i think that the governor is alot better compared to the mayor of peoria!:headbang:


Try living with the failure of Mayors and City council men in Mt. Vernon...major headbang...

Speaking of how Illinois is F&*^ed up, how about that East St. Louis? I hate that place :p

Speaking of how Illinois is F&*^ed up, how about that East St. Louis? I hate that place :p


Yeah, I've not been there, one of my mom's friends grew up there. He says, speaking of racism, that the Black on Black racism there is profound and waaaaaay f@kked-up.

Waitaminute, weren't we both just on a different thread? Or was THIS the alternate thread?

* Son of a BITCH!*

I NEED SLEEP! NEED TO STOP THREADSURFING! Gaaaaaaaaaaaa...:)

I guess peopledon't like socialist health care, or equal oppurtunity for all?

let's not forget that he DOESN'T have to live in the governor's mansion, and he opted out because of his infant daughter.

As for any ethical disruptions, i can't defend him there, because I haven't really been paying attention to much lately in Illinois politics.

I can't speak for all people, but what I dislike is the fact that Blago seems to pass some kind of progressive legislation(KidCare is a great example, universal preschool is another) that the state does not have the funding to support. We have significant budget problems and he still spends money. You cannot increase public spending without increasing taxes, unless you cut spending elsewhere. For Rod, most of the cuts have been to longer term commitments(like the state pension). Worse still is the fact that he makes noise about passing new ethics rules when his office is so obviously corrupt.

I can handle a liberal Democrat, and I can handle a conservative Republican, what I cannot handle is a foolish populist. Time and again Blago has made the same kind of fiscal mistakes that the Bush administration seems so fond of: I like to call it the "Spend but not tax" plan, although most private citizens would know it as "digging yourself into a hole."

Sure, I'm happy that he stood up to pro-life pharmacists, and I like the fact that he seems interested in fighting discrimination against sexual minorities, but the rest of his tenure has been so awful that a few chits in his favor really can't make up for all his flaws. The man is a machine democrat, a product of nepotism, a crony, and a a craven political opportunist. He might also be a nice guy in real life, I might enjoy having dinner with him, but that doesn't mean he is qualified to be governor.

As for his infant daughter, I'll come right out and say it: who cares? If he wants to be an active father, perhaps he shouldn't run for public office when he knows that the seat of the government he wants to rule is going to be far from his child. Or perhaps he should move his family out to Springfield. Spending huge amounts public money to commute from Springfiled to Chicago when money is tight is irresponsible, self-centered, and I'd argue unethical. Can you really say that Rod's preference of living in Chicago or having children is a better use of the tens of thousands of dollars spent on transportation than, say, education or healthcare? Being a progressive(or even a socially responsible person) begins at home, and the "everyone but me" mentality pisses me off. If he isn't willing to sacrifice for the good of the state then how the hell can he expect anyone else to?

The only reason many people dislike Rod is because he is a typical chicago democrat, aka anti-gun. Im sure if he went to a campaign rally with an NRA pin, with some sort of automatic rifle, the state would hail him as King.

Here are some things he has done for Illinois:

I guess people don't like socialist health care, or equal oppurtunity for all?

let's not forget that he DOESN'T have to live in the governor's mansion, and he opted out because of his infant daughter.

As for any ethical disruptions, i can't defend him there, because I haven't really been paying attention to much lately in Illinois politics.
Oh my God, social medicine! We're all doomed, doomed I say. If the government ever dares to provide healthcare for it's citizens, we are all royally fucked, because if the companies won't do it and people arn't generous enough to do it, no one should! Remember, the corporations are looking out for your best interest by raising copay and lowering or stripping health benefits.

Racism is definitly prevalent outside of Chicago. i think that's the only thing i like about chicago, being most liberal part of the state. Down here, south of I70, there is a lot of racism prevalent. I work with one, and honestly want to slap the hell out of him half the time. Also the suburbanites are rather racist as well. Stupid white, rich kids...:(


The rich white kids aren't nearly as bad as the uneducated white kids, the poor and middle class whites. Chicago might be a liberal town, but it's institutions are still racist as hell. Ever had an occasion to deal with a Chicago cop? Ever been pulled over because you were in the wrong neighborhood or had the wrong color person as a passenger? Ever heard an officer use a racial slur? I can answer yes to every one of those questions.

Worse than the overt racism that you see in the police is the subtle racism that you see in the citizens. White people in Chicago(especially on the near north side) like to think of themselves as progressive and right-thinking, they like to imagine that race isn't an issue for them or that they are colorblind, but all you have to do is listen to see they're liars. You hear it in their speech patterns with phrases like "those people" coming up all too often, you get a sense of it from their attitudes and the way they always seem to treat the poor or dark as little children who need to be lead and protected, you can feel their discomfort if a black man under thirty five walks past. The covert racism is built into their political attitudes: social programs which treat blacks and hispanics as too stupid, foolish, or vulnerable to protect themselves; gun control schemes which take guns out of the hands of the poor(who just so happen to be disproportionately non-white) and limit the kinds of guns which can be owned to those which are least likely to be useful in self-defense; education schemes which keep children who are born in the ghettos from every getting out of the ghettos; public housing systems that prevent the poor from every living in a neighborhood where everyone else isn't poor. On and on.

Worse than the overt racism that you see in the police is the subtle racism that you see in the citizens. White people in Chicago(especially on the near north side) like to think of themselves as progressive and right-thinking, they like to imagine that race isn't an issue for them or that they are colorblind, but all you have to do is listen to see they're liars. You hear it in their speech patterns with phrases like "those people" coming up all too often, you get a sense of it from their attitudes and the way they always seem to treat the poor or dark as little children who need to be lead and protected, you can feel their discomfort if a black man under thirty five walks past. The covert racism is built into their political attitudes: social programs which treat blacks and hispanics as too stupid, foolish, or vulnerable to protect themselves; gun control schemes which take guns out of the hands of the poor(who just so happen to be disproportionately non-white) and limit the kinds of guns which can be owned to those which are least likely to be useful in self-defense; education schemes which keep children who are born in the ghettos from every getting out of the ghettos; public housing systems that prevent the poor from every living in a neighborhood where everyone else isn't poor. On and on.
Anyone else catch that little gem? Pro free gun ownership to the end, fuck everything else.

Anyone else catch that little gem? Pro free gun ownership to the end, fuck everything else.

Anyone else catch everything else that was said? No, it just has to be ignored.

Anyone else catch that he raised all these taxes to increase funding and then stripped the coffers of education, health, etc. to pay for his own projects?

Anyone else catch that while he doesn't 'have' to live in the Governors office, he's costing the state tens of thousands of dollars making his administrators and the assembly travel back and forth constantly because he refuses to.

Anyone else catch that he pushed all these 'ethics' rules and is now under federal investigation for breaking them?

Anyone else catch that little gem? Pro free gun ownership to the end, fuck everything else.

Charming. Yes, I am pro-gun ownership. It is one of many political issues I have a stance on. It is even quite important to me, somewhere in the top 5 issues I consider when looking at a political candidate. Perhaps that consigns me to some intellectual ghetto.

Yes, I believe that gun control is an inherantly racist concept, at least as it is applied in the United States(most other contries have a very different history of gun ownership and gun control practices). It is one of the issues where subtle racism is almost always present in a discussion. I cannot tell you how many times the subject has come up when someone says something to the effect of "well, I know that you would never misuse a weapons, but you're in the minority, its all those other people who are dangerous." There is this impression built in that guns are a tools of dangerous "others" who seek to destroy the lives of good people. Just take a look at the disparity that exists in the enforcement of gun control laws. I can think of half a dozen small white girls I know who carry guns, three of them have been caught by the police. In only one of these cases was the weapon even confiscated, and none of them were arrested. I somehow get the feeling that things might have gone differently if instead of white girls they had been black men, and instead of walking through a relatively safe middle class neighborhood they had been walking through a bad neighborhood where the likelyhood of being a victim of crime was higher. Its just a hunch I have.

Also, where exactly did I say "fuck everything else?"

I'm surprised no one in this thread has brought up the worst thing to come from the Daleys hold on Chicago. THat would be "The Lincoln Park Pirates." The Lincoln Park Towing company got towing contracts from the city. Even if your car was legally parked, they would tow it and impound it. If you didn't pay, they would damage your car. It got so bad that Chicago songwriter Steve Goodman wrote a song about it.


LINCOLN PARK PIRATES
Steve Goodman


The streetlamps are on in Chicago tonight,
And lovers a'gazin' at stars;
The stores are all closin', and Daley is dozin',
And the fat man is counting the cars...
And there's more cars than places to put 'em, he says,
But I've got room for them all;
So 'round 'em up boys, 'cause I want some more toys,
In the lot by the grocery store...

To me, way, hey, tow them away,
The Lincoln Park Pirates are we,
From Wilmette to Gary, there's nothin' so hairy
And we always collect our fee!
So it's way, hey, tow 'em away,
We plunder the streets of your town,
Be it Edsel or Chevy, there's no car too heavy,
And no one can make us shut down.

We break into cars when we gotta,
With hammer and pickaxe and saw;
And they said this garage had no license;
But little care I for the law!
Our drivers are friendly and courteous;
Their good manners you always will get;
'Cause they all are recent graduates
Of the charm school in Joliet.

To me, way, hey, tow them away,
The Lincoln Park Pirates are we,
From Wilmette to Gary, there's nothin' so hairy
And we always collect our fee!
So it's way, hey, tow 'em away,
We plunder the streets of your town,
Be it Edsel or Chevy, there's no car too heavy,
And no one can make us shut down.

And when all the cars are collected,
And all of their fenders are ruined,
Then I'll tow all the boats in Belmont Harbor
To the Lincoln Park Lagoon;
And when I've collected the ransom,
And sunk all the ones that won't yield;
I'll tow all the planes that are blocking the runways
At Midway, O'Hare, and Meigs Field!

To me, way, hey, tow them away,
The Lincoln Park Pirates are we,
From Wilmette to Gary, there's nothin' so hairy
And we always collect our fee!
So it's way, hey, tow 'em away,
Now citizens, gather around,
And I think it's enough, let's call his bluff,
Let's throw the bum out of town!