NationStates Jolt Archive

I just read a newspaper article, according to which a certain Philip Chester, vicar of the parish of St. Matthews, Westminster, petitions to replace England's national saint with St. Alban for various reasons, one of them being the questionability of George's existence; whereas Alban allegedly was killed in England in ~304 a.d. Further reasons cited included George's link to the Crusades, and Alban patrony over refugees.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find any online article on it - mayhaps one of you lot has more information?

Anyway, thought and comments?

Why do you need a national saint? Hardly anyone in the UK goes to church anymore.

Why do you need a national saint? Hardly anyone in the UK goes to church anymore.

Which possibly one of our UK friends could answer? As far as I'm aware, Germany hasn't had a national saint for the last 60 years.

<stuff>Further reasons cited included George's link to the Crusades<stuff>

A fair few of the English kings went crusading and killing heathens. So what's the problem for Philip Chester then?

Undoubtedly he's got a warehouse full of authentic St. Albans medallions.

I just read a newspaper article, according to which a certain Philip Chester, vicar of the parish of St. Matthews, Westminster, petitions to replace England's national saint with St. Alban for various reasons, one of them being the questionability of George's existence; whereas Alban allegedly was killed in England in ~304 a.d. Further reasons cited included George's link to the Crusades, and Alban patrony over refugees.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find any online article on it - mayhaps one of you lot has more information?

Anyway, thought and comments?

The saint who killed dragons might not have existed? Nonsense! How else do you explain why there aren't any dragons left in England?

I just read a newspaper article, according to which a certain Philip Chester, vicar of the parish of St. Matthews, Westminster, petitions to replace England's national saint with St. Alban for various reasons, one of them being the questionability of George's existence; whereas Alban allegedly was killed in England in ~304 a.d. Further reasons cited included George's link to the Crusades, and Alban patrony over refugees.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find any online article on it - mayhaps one of you lot has more information?

Anyway, thought and comments?

Similar happened to Saint Christopher. He was removed from most Catholic lists of saints because there is reason to believe that he never existed, or got mixed up with another existing saint.

Seems to me that religious people ought to be the last to worry about whether someone really existed. :p

I suggest the Russians saint.... St. Kalashnikov!

I suppose changing our saint would also involve changing our flag which just ain't gunna happen.
I think its symbolic anyway ours is the cross of St. George slayer of the dragon and the welsh flag is the dragon...

Coincidence? I think not

Isn't St. George so intertwined with British culture it would be damned near impossible to "remove" him anyhow?

Mind you, the ones I've seen in my time using St.George iconography the most were NF/BNP dirtbags and "White Power" bands from England (i.e., Brutal Attack and "The Return of St. George). So maybe in the normal human Englishperson's life, it's not that big a deal anymore to have a change-over.

I also agree with L.Goofballs. Saints are no longer people. They're spiritual icons. What is the point of determining their historical accuracy?

Do we next attempt to determine whether Our Hero "actually" beat the holy hell out of a fire-breathing Satanic dinosaur? Will that settle the issue?

I suggest the Russians saint.... St. Kalashnikov!

Nahhh, the Englanders can't have him.

That's one of the few state-approved saints in the Illustrious Dominion of Kherberusovichya.

Hands off!

It's a very good idea. St George, if he ever did exist, was a man of questionable morals and most certainly not English. The closest he ever got to England is about Turkey.

St Alban is a much better character and is actually related to England. They've talked about this for years; I hope they finally hurry up and do it.

Seems to me that religious people ought to be the last to worry about whether someone really existed. :p

Yup. :D

Another thing I wondered about was under whose 'jurisdiction' this actually falls.
As far as I understand, it's a matter of the Anglican Church, so would a change from their side automatically change the flag?

SAINT ROGER THE WHOREMONGER

Born the son of a Florentine nobleman, Saint Roger the Whoremonger's early life was spent in riotous dissipation with prostitutes and loose women. At the age of thirty an angel appeared and told him to mend his ways. Roger smoothed his moustache and said, "Hellooo, ring-a-ding-ding," and the angel had to flee in fear of her virtue.
At the age of forty, however, he had a change of heart and renounced women, henceforth devoting his days to self-abuse. Ten years later God spoke to him and said, "Look, cut it out, all right? For heaven's sake, man, you'll do yourself a mischief." So Roger gave up onanism and went back to whoring. However, on his deathbed at the age of 83 he sent for a priest and repented. Realizing he still had about twenty minutes left, he then sent for his whores and roistered away merrily before repenting again with ten seconds to spare. Even then the priest had to smack his hand away from a whore's tit twice before he expired.
The exact nature of the sainthood of Roger the Whoremonger is still being debated today, but he certainly died with a beautiful smile on his face.


SAINT FELICITY THE MERRY

Saint Felicity the Merry used to skip around everywhere revelling in the joys of creation and singing the praises of God. She would say things like, "Oh, a butterfly, oh, look at the sunshine, tra-la-la." Eventually she was stoned to death by some people with hangovers.


SAINT JOAN THE FOOLISH

A simple peasant girl from the Dordogne, Joan heard voices telling her to drive the French out of France. She made a nuisance of herself in several villages in Alsace-Lorraine attempting to drive people over the border with a fly-whisk, saying, "Go on, piss off, you buggers." She demanded an audience with the Dauphin, claiming to be at the head of a mighty army, although as her troops only entered one at a time eventually everyone realized it was just her going in and out in different false beards and calling herself things like 'Pierre' and 'Bill'. She was slapped severely and sent home.


SAINT NOGGIN THE NOG

A recluse and mystic, St. Noggin lived a simple life in a cave in the Carpathian mountains, wearing the same clothes all his life and never washing. People attested to the almost overpowering aura that emanated from him, especially when he raised his arms to heaven. Upon his death it was found that his clothes could not be destroyed and seemed imbued with a life of their own for weeks afterwards. They slithered loyally to his grave and whined inconsolably for days. His underpants, displayed from the city walls, are credited with turning the Turks back from Vienna.


SAINT VIRGINIA THE HARD-TO-GET

Despite being really fit, Saint Virginia the Hard-to-Get was so chaste she tied her legs together at the age of 13 and had to hop around everywhere. (She won the village sack race every year though.) She was so modest even gingerbread men had to wear trousers before she would look at them.
Kidnapped by a pagan prince, Virginia was offered a choice between becoming his concubine or being burned to death. She unflinchingly chose death, even offering to go and fetch the kindling herself. As you can imagine, this didn't do much for the prince's self-esteem and he spent several weeks skulking in shadows muttering, "I am not an elephant," and dragging one leg and making slobbering sounds. Whenever he passed a mirror he would make this really irritating high-pitched screeching noise and shriek, "Take it away! Take it away!" until his courtiers told him to stop milking it.
The Prince continued to pester Virginia to surrender to him, plying her with offers of jewels and furs and chocolates and sophisticated arguments such as, "Please, go on, I'll be really quick," but her virtue remained steadfast. Eventually Virginia converted him to Christianity and persuaded him to build a ruddy great temple to the Lord, whereupon she married him and thereafter went like the clappers, by all accounts. Although for many years their union was not blessed with offspring, at the age of sixty she miraculously gave birth to 800 mice.


http://www.michaelkelly.fsnet.co.uk/saints.htm

I suppose changing our saint would also involve changing our flag which just ain't gunna happen.
I think its symbolic anyway ours is the cross of St. George slayer of the dragon and the welsh flag is the dragon...

Coincidence? I think not


Just for the record St George was of Turkish decent and a roman legionaire who served in the middle east , he was allegedly executed as any muslim to christian conversion was , his blood stained cross was used by his followers and the cult spread to Knights hundreds of years later , these crusaders were from germany , holland , france and britain... the Dragon was intoduced as a story as the Arthur tales were spread to the british Isles ( It does not represent slaying the welsh etc) , the dragon was the Wyvern and it never happened ( myth not fact) , the Dragon Flag of Wales does carry significance of a welsh battle were Llewelyn the Greats troups beat Edward I's Irish and french mercinary force on the welsh border near Prestigne.
to cap the history lesson off
1. St George was not English
2. There was no Dragon
3. England was beaten in Battle by a welsh Tribe
hope this clears this murky myth up....
Also for the record St Patrick was a welsh monk kidnapped by Irish Pirates...Another myth busted by the people who brought you St George..NOT AS ENGLISH AS PIE AND CHIPS :)

Which possibly one of our UK friends could answer? As far as I'm aware, Germany hasn't had a national saint for the last 60 years.
Don't we still have Archangel Michael, Saint Boniface, and Ansgar (Anskar)?

I can't recall when it was decided to get rid of Archangel Michael?!?

Just for the record St George was of Turkish decent and a roman legionaire who served in the middle east , he was allegedly executed as any muslim to christian conversion was , his blood stained cross was used by his followers and the cult spread to Knights hundreds of years later , these crusaders were from germany , holland , france and britain... the Dragon was intoduced as a story as the Arthur tales were spread to the british Isles ( It does not represent slaying the welsh etc) , the dragon was the Wyvern and it never happened ( myth not fact) , the Dragon Flag of Wales does carry significance of a welsh battle were Llewelyn the Greats troups beat Edward I's Irish and french mercinary force on the welsh border near Prestigne.
to cap the history lesson off
1. St George was not English
2. There was no Dragon
3. England was beaten in Battle by a welsh Tribe
hope this clears this murky myth up....
Also for the record St Patrick was a welsh monk kidnapped by Irish Pirates...Another myth busted by the people who brought you St George..NOT AS ENGLISH AS PIE AND CHIPS :)

I was only joking but nice history lesson though:p

Any measure that curbs public outpourings of nationalism can ony be good. I vote for St. Marylin Manson.

Any measure that curbs public outpourings of nationalism can ony be good. I vote for St. Marylin Manson.

Whats wrong with the occasional public show of nationalism?

Whats wrong with the occasional public show of nationalism?

Nationalism is so 90's, imposter.

Saints Days are only an excuse for a day off work to drink. Hell, some even make it an International day....

St. Patrick and all. :D

Saints Days are only an excuse for a day off work to drink. Hell, some even make it an International day....

St. Patrick and all. :D
While not actually needing an excuse to stay home from work and drink, it is nice to have official sanction for it now and then. :D

Crap. I live on Saint George Place.