NationStates Jolt Archive

Because I was sick and tired of all the threads that start out 'what if America didn't get involved in WW2?' or 'what if America joined teh Nazis'

It always seems to come down to the point, 'It wasn't the Americans, it was the Russians'

So...

What if Hitler had abided by the Nazi-Soviet pact, and Russia hadn't got involved in WW2?

While I'm no history major... I'm pretty sure Russia was involved from the get-go, they were just on the other side.

Hitler would probably broken later when he was in a position of greater european strength when russia started to attack japans territory in china.

Hitler would probably have taken and held onto Europe with greater ease, and communism would have flourished in china... some other stuff, but i dont really know anything.

What if Hitler had abided by the Nazi-Soviet pact, and Russia hadn't got involved in WW2?

All those German forces would have been deployed to North Africa and Europe, and perhaps for the elimination (through invasion or bombardment or naval blockade) of the UK.

In short, all those extra German forces deployed to what was called the Western Front would have made WW2 either longer, grind to a stalemate, or unwinnable.

In 1945 the US had the Bomb. The question is, whether the Germans would have it first, perhaps having eliminated the UK, the nerve centre of commando raids, including the Norweigan Heavy Water Plant in Telemark.

Without that sabotage, who knows? The Germans may have had the bomb too.

Don't forget the US joined in 1942.....by that time, without an Eastern Front, the Germans may have brought Britain to it's knees or invaded it.

Even if Hitler had still declared war in late 1941, would the US still take it to him, or would both sides have a Cold War?


Who knows....


One guess is that the USSR would have become involved at some point. Seeing the Nazis grow stronger at their borders would surely over time raise tensions between these conflicting idealogical nations.

On the other hand, Hitler wouldn't have gained all of those resources in western Russia. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

On the other hand, Hitler wouldn't have gained all of those resources in western Russia. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

It does, which then asks the question in itself whether Hitler would have kept to the Ribbentropp-Molotov Pact at all.

Which he did'nt.

There were resources in North Africa.....and if he took out the UK, the British Army probably would not be there to stop the Germans getting into The Middle East proper as they did in '41 and '42 with the US....

And indeed, it is unknown if the US would be involved....I would say when it comes to The Middle East....yes.

Capture the middle east, you can keep your Russia....

But Hitler could not tolerate a rival that was the Soviets on the Reich's borders.....perhaps that was key.

Hitler and Stalin were both planning to attack each other if Hitler hadn't made the first move Stalin would of and this time it would be the reverse situation with German troops being caught off guard

I would doubt Hitler could of taken Britain even without the eastern front had the royal air force been defeated the Royal navy would of cut supplies to any invading force (albeit suffering horrendous casualties)

The real question is would Britain join Germany in a war against a communist invader with dreams of eventually crushing Britain?

Without Russia's aid, The Nazis could've easily won WWII. The Russians had the most advanced tanks in WWII, which were the only tanks able to defeat the Nazi Panzer divisions.
The American contribution to the war was pathetic compered to the Russians, and the Russians had a legitimate reason no to get involved in the war (The pact) whilst the Americans had no real reason. They just wanted to stay out of it. It took Pearl Harbour to make them believe the war was serious and even then the American forces did little to help against Hitler, they were more interested in fighting Japan.

Without Russian aid, Germany would've eventually won. They had Britain cornered and it took the might of the Soviet army to force the Germans to abandon their invasion plans and defend their own country from being invaded. Remember that Half of Germany was in Russian hands right up until 1989.

Without Russia's aid, The Nazis could've easily won WWII. The Russians had the most advanced tanks in WWII, which were the only tanks able to defeat the Nazi Panzer divisions.
The American contribution to the war was pathetic compered to the Russians, and the Russians had a legitimate reason no to get involved in the war (The pact) whilst the Americans had no real reason. They just wanted to stay out of it. It took Pearl Harbour to make them believe the war was serious and even then the American forces did little to help against Hitler, they were more interested in fighting Japan.

Without Russian aid, Germany would've eventually won. They had Britain cornered and it took the might of the Soviet army to force the Germans to abandon their invasion plans and defend their own country from being invaded. Remember that Half of Germany was in Russian hands right up until 1989.

It would have taken 2 or 3 more years, but the allies (thanks to America) would have still won. At least in Europe. Japan would have taken at least 5 years more to beat- maybe (if they could've been beat at that point).
Then again, Russia wasn't too involved in the Pacific. The U.S. and China (who really couldn't do much) were fighting single-handedly for the most part.

Did you know that there was a Japanese guy in the Phillippines who didn't surrender until 1970 somthing- the War was still on for him. I wonder what he did...hmmm:rolleyes:

i like the thought of what if the united states went back in time and killed hitler before he gained power scenerio. and that is when red alert starts

i like the thought of what if the united states went back in time and killed hitler before he gained power scenerio. and that is when red alert starts


Which is great idea ... killing Hitler before he gained power, and then you could have Hess, or Borham, or Enst Rhomn ??? (SA leader) in charge of the nazis.

Of course you could argue that they would not of started WW2, but if the war was inevitable, then Germany would have won easily, because although Hitler started the war, he was the reason the nazis lost it

Re Dunkirk 1940 ordering a 3 day halt to ground attacks, allowing many more BEF troops to escape.
September 1940 ordering the luftwaffe to bomb London instead of hitting the airfields/aircraft factories (RAF was down to 3 days operational capacity)
1941 invasion of Russia.... Played around with the objectives of the 3 army groups, with the result they never got to Moscow before the winter set in
1941 North africa. Could have given Rommel another 10 divisions of troops, would have shoved the British out of Eygpt and seized the Suez canal
1942 Russia Changed the objectives from seizing the Russian oilfields to Stalingrad... say no more
1943/1944 No retreat orders..... leaving 100 000's of german troops to be captured/killed in Russia, when they could have been used defending Germany.
1944 refused Rommel's advice to keep panzer divisions close to the coast, where they could easily attack the landing points.
1944 D-day : refused to move army divisions near Calais due to his 'astrologer' telling him the invasion would be there and Nomandy was a division
1945 commited suicide in the bunker in Berlin....... no ... hold on... thats something he did right:D

Imagine for example, Rommel being nazi leader...... could you imagine him making so many f*** ups ?

What if Hitler had abided by the Nazi-Soviet pact, and Russia hadn't got involved in WW2?That wouldn't have happened. Both were spoiling for war. Hitler wanted to buy time to conquer Western Europe and Stalin wanted to buy time to "reform" the red army.

i like the thought of what if the united states went back in time and killed hitler before he gained power scenerio. and that is when red alert startsAnd it utterly failed to explain why Poland was on the allied side and why all the borders were like they were after WWII when they should have been like they were after WWI...

Without Russia's aid, The Nazis could've easily won WWII. The Russians had the most advanced tanks in WWII, which were the only tanks able to defeat the Nazi Panzer divisions.
The American contribution to the war was pathetic compered to the Russians, and the Russians had a legitimate reason no to get involved in the war (The pact) whilst the Americans had no real reason. They just wanted to stay out of it. It took Pearl Harbour to make them believe the war was serious and even then the American forces did little to help against Hitler, they were more interested in fighting Japan.

Without Russian aid, Germany would've eventually won. They had Britain cornered and it took the might of the Soviet army to force the Germans to abandon their invasion plans and defend their own country from being invaded. Remember that Half of Germany was in Russian hands right up until 1989.
Uh.... I don't know where you got all that but you are wrong in a number of areas. The American plan was to deal with Germany first and then take out Japan, but they U.S. saw some advances and decided to hit both at once. The U.S. industrial might that supplied the British, French Resistance and the U.S. was a huge contibution to the war. The only reason the Soviets put so much effort into it is because there very curvival was a stake. the Soviets were good at fighting in the cold and that was there trump card. Was it not for the brave efforts of 'General Winter' and U.S. involvement then the Nazi's would have pressed much further into Soviet territory or completely taking it.

Also, if we had'nt have gotten involved, and the Soviets crushed the Nazis, we would've had a longer, more dangerous Cold War with the Soviets...

Russia would've invaded Germany. Stalin and Hitler--and their respective philosophies (communism vs. fascism)--weren't exactly well-aligned. One would have invaded the other, especially if Russia saw a Fascist regime gaining too much power in Europe, if only to preserve its own interests of security.

And it utterly failed to explain why Poland was on the allied side and why all the borders were like they were after WWII when they should have been like they were after WWI...
Psh, who cares. Fun game, anyway. Poetic--erm, designer license :D

Russia would've turned on Germany eventually.