NationStates Jolt Archive

Having recently done one of my typical studies of Luke's Gospel, I couldn't help but consider the references to demons in some of the earlier chapters. To me, they always seemed out of place in Luke, which has been more about Jesus within the context of the human world than to do with the theology of otherworldly creatures. Even the God it paints is more of an Einsteinian Gaia than a supreme ruler creature.

Yet from as early as the fourth chapter, there they are; inhabiting individuals and giving them abnormal lack of restraint in their verbal defiance of Jesus, apparently taunting him with their calls of "messiah!".

Something seems very out of place here. Presumably, we are not to take the conventional meaning of the word Demon for granted. So just what is it that Jesus is rebuking here in chapter 4?
Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, "You are the Son of God!" But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Christ.
So, suddenly, out pops a crowd of people shouting out an acknowledgement of who Jesus was. Were they all posessed by super-planar beings? Or is there a fuller understanding to be gained in an analysis of the events in line with the rest of Luke's Gospel?

This kind of behaviour reminds me a lot of one of those Christian Youth things I went to when I was a bit younger. You know the kind; lots of singing, jumping around, then lots of emotional manipulation that gets the crowd whipped up into a frenzy of Jesus-lovin' chanting. Crowds of people shouting "You are the Lord"? Definitely a Mannafest concert.

It's the perfect example of Evangelism at its most effective. You have a leader to start it off and a crowd to follow. The events in Luke 4 match up perfectly with a modern-day Evangelical service. Pack behaviour takes control, and these people find themselves going along with the flow, shouting out acknowledgements of the Messiah.

I think we've just identified the Demon; the incarnation of group mentality and hysteria. In a very real sense, I think that is perhaps part of the reason that Evangelistic Christianity and Demons have such an inherent link. You know what I'm talking about, right? It's never the moderates that talk about Devils and Demons; it's always those with the political approach to the bible that use them as common ideas. Perhaps the reason for this is the very use of Demons themselves as core to their essential function? Rather like Scientology with Psychiatry, and like Islam with Judaism, our organised structures tend to have a severe dislike for that which they strongly resemble...

What's more, I think we can take this as a testimony to Jesus's attitude to such methodologies, as well as possibly a hint as to the origin of his own power. To be controlled by this mentality, he feels, is something that humans need to be freed from and something that he can and does free people from. How, we may only speculate, but Jesus's power seems to derive from his own degree of control over groups and packs...

So... yeah. Jesus doesn't like hysterical evangelising. Or something.

am I supposed to break that down point by point to show you how crazy you actually are?

and I think you are using the term Evangelical incorrectly....yeah.

Luke? Anakin's son?

..dont see why people have to draw their morals from some invisible dude in the sky. As the two greatest propets of the c20th said: 'be excellent to each other'.

Liasia']..dont see why people have to draw their morals from some invisible dude in the sky. As the two greatest propets of the c20th said: 'be excellent to each other'.

And "Party on, dudes."

am I supposed to break that down point by point to show you how crazy you actually are?

and I think you are using the term Evangelical incorrectly....yeah.
Nuu, I know how crazy I am. The line between Genius and Madness is governed merely by one's ability to make a work of art out of the subject matter. Though you must ask; what the heck are demons, when they're at home? It seems perfectly rational that Demons, in context, are astoundingly similar to that group which most fears and despises them.

And... well... Evangelical is concerning Evangelicalism, isn't it? Going out and trying to convert people through public displays of preaching being one of their core tenants? Perhaps "Those who Evangelise" would be a better term, then, though Evangelical Christians are certainly included within that category.

Liasia']..dont see why people have to draw their morals from some invisible dude in the sky. As the two greatest propets of the c20th said: 'be excellent to each other'.
And "Party on, dudes."
Excellent.

*Air guitar*

Incidentally, though, Liasia, if you follow some of my other "insane" theological ideas, you'll find a somewhat different approach to Jesus. I don't think his God is some invisible dude in the sky; I think it was closer to a sort of Mother Nature entity that was present in everything that he understood and might even have been able to make use of.

It's not about drawing morals from some dude in the sky. It's about drawing moral meanings and wisdom from stories, tales and Art and sharing them between us. It just so happens that the bible is one of the older, and thus more unusual, sources of art we have; hence the messages we take from it have a slightly different sense to them than we might get from each other today.

Excellent.

*Air guitar*

Incidentally, though, Liasia, if you follow some of my other "insane" theological ideas, you'll find a somewhat different approach to Jesus. I don't think his God is some invisible dude in the sky; I think it was closer to a sort of Mother Nature entity that was present in everything that he understood and might even have been able to make use of.

It's not about drawing morals from some dude in the sky. It's about drawing moral meanings and wisdom from stories, tales and Art and sharing them between us. It just so happens that the bible is one of the older, and thus more unusual, sources of art we have; hence the messages we take from it have a slightly different sense to them than we might get from each other today.
Still seems a bit redundant when it basically comes down to whether you hurt another human being. If you hurt someone else, that's morally wrong- I don't need any theoretical entity or being to tell me that. Ah w/e- I just think it'd be so much easier without all the b/s people associate with religion. I don't disagree with what Jesus perportedly said, just with what people use it to justify in terms of churches and rituals.

Liasia']Still seems a bit redundant when it basically comes down to whether you hurt another human being. If you hurt someone else, that's morally wrong- I don't need any theoretical entity or being to tell me that. Ah w/e- I just think it'd be so much easier without all the b/s people associate with religion. I don't disagree with what Jesus perportedly said, just with what people use it to justify in terms of churches and rituals.
Exactly what I disagree with. But I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, if you get what I mean. Just because Christianity as a social structure sucks doesn't mean there's nothing of value we can derive from their texts.

Sometimes it takes a little insight to work out exactly what course of action is the more harmful or beneficial in the long run, and sometimes inspiration from weird and wonderful sources can help in coming to a decision. The most important truths in all religions come from throwing aside the ceremony and direct instructions and looking beneath the stories to see how they tick. After all, any meaning you derive from those involves a meaningful and engaging consultation between the author or artist and yourself, which will always have more of an impact than simply being told what to do or trying to work it out solely on your own.

Nuu, I know how crazy I am. The line between Genius and Madness is governed merely by one's ability to make a work of art out of the subject matter. Though you must ask; what the heck are demons, when they're at home? It seems perfectly rational that Demons, in context, are astoundingly similar to that group which most fears and despises them.
you can either take the demons as literal characters (enemies of Christians, satan's little helpers ect.) or as symbolic characters (the personification of rebellion, knowing full well what is right and going against it) but not really both, I mean I guess you can choose both or a little of column a and a little of column b but really you just sound crazy.

And... well... Evangelical is concerning Evangelicalism, isn't it? Going out and trying to convert people through public displays of preaching being one of their core tenants? Perhaps "Those who Evangelise" would be a better term, then, though Evangelical Christians are certainly included within that category.
I am fine with the use of Evangelical to speak about people whom Evangelize, but I thought I picked up a hint of Evangelical=trying to make a theocracy which is where my problem lies.

And "Party on, dudes."
I totally loogied on that good dead me!

Luke? Anakin's son?
My thoughts exactly.