NationStates Jolt Archive


Garden of Eden

Zilam
02-07-2006, 22:37
Now I know many will flock here to say something bad about believing in such a place. I don't care. I am going to go with the assumption that at one time such a place was around. It was a beautiful garden in the land known as eden. The problem is there is no way to really give a contemporary location to the ancient place. That is what the purpose of this thread is.

The only geographical information given about the Garden is this from Genesis(there might be somehting in the Qur'an, not sure)

8And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

9And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

10And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.

11The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;

12And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.

13And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.

14And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.



Now lets dissect that. We learn in verse 8 that the garden is not called Eden, but rather is place eastward in the land of Eden. One can assume that Eden refers to the land that is now known as Iraq. The next clue we have is that there was a mighty river that flowed through the garden, and as it exited the Garden it split into four other rivers, Pison(Pishon), Gihon, Hiddekel(Tigris), and the Euphrates.

Lets look at the four rivers and see what we can learn from them.

11The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;

The first river is known as the River Pison or Pishon. It means "free flowing". We get a clue to where it once flowed when the text says it flows through the whole land of Havilah, or the strechy sand area. That area is what we would call Arabia today. Recent sattellite photography suggest that indeed at one time, around 6000 years ago or so, a river once flowed through arabia, as this text suggests. Very interesting.

The Second clue is about the River Gihon. Gihon means gushin fountain. In the OT it was often known to be the primary source of water for Jerusalem, possibly comming from a spring in the Kidron Valley. However this text says "the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia." Now don't be confused by ethiopia in the verse. It actually is referring to the land known as Cush, as Cush and Ethiopia were used to mean the same thing early in the OT. However, I don't know how to take this text. Does it mean that the river is the Nile, or perhaps its saying its like the Nile, in that it flows the same way, and is very large. I have no clue about this one.

The third and fourth clues we find is that the Tigris and Euphrates rivers are mentioned. Unless in ancient time they deviated radically from their current course, then we are talking about a similiar flow today for the two.

Now with the first clue, and the third and fourth clues, we can reasonably assume that the Garden would have been located around southern Iraq, perhaps even at one time the Persian Gulf was dried, and the garden was there. However the one thing that bugs me is the whole thing about the Gihon River, and the land of Ethiopia(Cush) thing...Any suggestions on this?

Oh by the way I have found some maps claiming to know where the Garden was located.

http://www.ldolphin.org/eden/fig2.gif

A landsat (http://www.ldolphin.org/eden/fig3.gif)(that map shows the rive Gihon as the River Karun of Iran.)
Zilam
02-07-2006, 22:44
I have heard several other locations as well, such as the fast east, in places like the south china sea, or in thailand. Then you have the mormons whom claim it was in missouri( i think), and still others say its actually in africa, while some other will claim it to have some sort of relationship to Atlantis. So I will put a poll up to see what NS thinks of the location.
Empress_Suiko
02-07-2006, 22:49
I saw a show on either the history channel or discovery channel that said it was in Iran.
Zilam
02-07-2006, 22:51
I saw a show on either the history channel or discovery channel that said it was in Iran.


Iran? Interesting... I would tend to believe more of Iraq, as it was the "birthplace of civilization". So you'd think a story of a garden would stick with the locales more.

Oh btw, i forgot an other Option, so if anyone wants to, they can use the last option about atlantis as an other(specify) option
Big Jim P
02-07-2006, 22:54
Eden was, most likely, in present-day Iraq as that's where recorded civilzation originated.
Good Lifes
02-07-2006, 22:56
The trick is the rivers split apart. normally rivers converge to form a larger river not split into 4 rivers. The only place where this normall happens is in a delta. Also the garden wasn't perfect. If you read further you will see Adam had a job of caring and improving the garden.
Zilam
02-07-2006, 23:00
The trick is the rivers split apart. normally rivers converge to form a larger river not split into 4 rivers. The only place where this normall happens is in a delta. Also the garden wasn't perfect. If you read further you will see Adam had a job of caring and improving the garden.


i read this site right here when i started studying it. (http://www.ldolphin.org/eden/)

its what led me to believe its in southern Iraq, perhaps in the gulf. Originally with the whole Gihon river puzzle, i thought it to be more western, like in Jordan or northern Arabia, as to compensate for having one river way out of place with the others.
East of Eden is Nod
02-07-2006, 23:20
Google earth overlays http://mbauglir.my-place.us/edin_gan_cush.kmz
The Coral Islands
02-07-2006, 23:41
I voted for Iraq, but I always pictured it in Iran or Turkey.
[NS]Liasia
02-07-2006, 23:43
I'd imagine in the same place as the garden of babylon.. Iraq yeh?
EarlLand
02-07-2006, 23:59
None of these is correct. If you ignore the biblical timeline, which has been discredited already, you'd look for a place that no longer exists or is no longer what it once was (OK, maybe Iraq isn't such a bad idea). I'm talking about the north pole!

The north pole was once tropical in climate, and the land had many fresh water rivers from present day Canada and Siberia. For more information on the tropical arctic, the following link is informative:

http://www.gatago.com/soc/retirement/18895814.html
East of Eden is Nod
03-07-2006, 00:03
North pole? You seem to confuse Adam with Santa... cut the crap.
Good Lifes
03-07-2006, 00:34
What always amazes me is Christians? will say that God never changes. Then Jesus is God. But Jesus taught in parables so people could understand hard concepts at their level.

But somehow this same unchanging God didn't speak in parables to the people of the OT so they could understand difficult concepts at their level.

I think real Christians would spend their time understanding the parables of both the NT and the OT.
Zilam
03-07-2006, 00:36
What always amazes me is Christians? will say that God never changes. Then Jesus is God. But Jesus taught in parables so people could understand hard concepts at their level.

But somehow this same unchanging God didn't speak in parables to the people of the OT so they could understand difficult concepts at their level.

I think real Christians would spend their time understanding the parables of both the NT and the OT.


So what? Perhaps there wasn't an actualy garden where life began, but perhaps there was a somewhat mystical beautiful place that was remembered as a holy place, or something? I want to find where this place is, and what it was.
New Zero Seven
03-07-2006, 00:36
My backyard in Markham, Ontario. Lots of forbidden fruit to eat, I should prolly try and start making some forbidden fruit jam and start my own business.
East of Eden is Nod
03-07-2006, 00:56
What the heck? Eden is not originally Christian or Jewish. The word "edin" is Sumerian and means high plain. It was used to refer to the Zagros area northeast of the Mesopotamian lowland. The story of biblical Eden is not the story about the origin of human life but the origin of human civilization. That's why some folks have such a hard time to distinguish between Africa as the cradle of humankind and the Middle East as the cradle of civilization.
Trostia
03-07-2006, 00:56
New Jersey. The "garden" state. Coincidence? I THINK NOT.
East of Eden is Nod
03-07-2006, 01:06
New Jersey. The "garden" state. Coincidence? I THINK NOT.

The "garden" state? I've never heard it called that. I always hear "armpit of America" .... :D
Trostia
03-07-2006, 01:20
The "garden" state? I've never heard it called that. I always hear "armpit of America" .... :D

That just shows how forsaken the place is ever since Adam and Eve were kicked out!
Jwp-serbu
03-07-2006, 01:20
germany of course - the BEER garden :p :p :p :p :p
[NS]Liasia
03-07-2006, 01:36
New Jersey. The "garden" state. Coincidence? I THINK NOT.
That film is awesome tho, I must say. Well done Zach Braff on that one.
East of Eden is Nod
03-07-2006, 01:46
After the poll nobody believes the Mormons :(

:D :D :D
Good Lifes
03-07-2006, 02:04
I have heard several other locations as well, such as the fast east, in places like the south china sea, or in thailand. Then you have the mormons whom claim it was in missouri( i think), and still others say its actually in africa, while some other will claim it to have some sort of relationship to Atlantis. So I will put a poll up to see what NS thinks of the location.
I've been to the place in Missouri that the Mormans claim. It's just a hill with a bunch of trees on it, just like millions of other hills with trees.
Markreich
03-07-2006, 10:34
New Jersey. The "garden" state. Coincidence? I THINK NOT.

I always thought it was a joke... it IS better than "New Jersey: WHAT'S THAT SMELL?!?" :D
Markreich
03-07-2006, 10:35
If there was such a place, I think it was a different planet/plane of existance.
I'm pretty sure that this is purgatory and that we stay here until we get it very right or very wrong.
Mt-Tau
03-07-2006, 12:59
You are all wrong. Garden of Eden is a kickass clothing optional bar located at Key West, Fl.