NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm not Jewish, but they really do rock. They are supremely intelligent, and they fight terror more then the U.S. They are so organized. Anyway, state something about the awsome Jewish race, good or bad.
Israel is the best!

Actually Israel happens to be the worst. And jews arent any better or more special than anyone else. Too many people feel sorry them and treat them special. That said the potato things they make are pretty good and there are many Israeli women that are attractive to say the least. So there, I said something nice.

*sigh*

as a jew, i feel that people should try just, i dunno, stop stereotyping us either way and just let us be. could some mature mod/admin please lock this? so freakin pointless and it invariably leads to stupid, ignorant people saying stupid, ignorant, yet hurtful things.

Actually Israel happens to be the worst. And jews arent any better or more special than anyone else. Too many people feel sorry them and treat them special. That said the potato things they make are pretty good and there are many Israeli women that are attractive to say the least. So there, I said something nice.
Israel is the worst? I respect your opinion dear-sir, but how so?

*sigh*

as a jew, i feel that people should try just, i dunno, stop stereotyping us either way and just let us be. could some mature mod/admin please lock this? so freakin pointless and it invariably leads to stupid, ignorant people saying stupid, ignorant, yet hurtful things.
Allright, I won't post anymore on this topic, I'm sorry if you don't like it...:(

Israel is the worst? I respect your opinion dear-sir, but how so?
That whole thing about how they have a tendency to invade and occupy their neighbours. And you know, using land that wasnt theirs to setup their little country. Other than that its great, really great:rolleyes:

In my opinion, I blame Israel for 9/11, and the war on Terror right now, and for a handful of other problems in the Middle East. I also agree that way to many people feel sorry for them. Israel is the most rascist country on Earth. They have a pretty big segregation between Muslims and Jews, and Israel does not truly belong to the Jews, but they kind of took more than they were supposed to when the British gave them a haven after WW2. In my opinion, Israel is a horrid little nation.

That whole thing about how they have a tendency to invade and occupy their neighbours. And you know, using land that wasnt theirs to setup their little country. Other than that its great, really great:rolleyes:


What land that wasn't theirs?

That whole thing about how they have a tendency to invade and occupy their neighbours. And you know, using land that wasnt theirs to setup their little country. Other than that its great, really great:rolleyes:


*sighs about posting*

The Hebrews originated from the land of Canaan, which is now Israel and the surrounding area. They want the land that they had first, IE. they want a Hebrew State. I mean, come on. Why not let them? There's enough Islamic nations in the world, why not a Hebrew one?

In my opinion, I blame Israel for 9/11, and the war on Terror right now, and for a handful of other problems in the Middle East. I also agree that way to many people feel sorry for them. Israel is the most rascist country on Earth. They have a pretty big segregation between Muslims and Jews, and Israel does not truly belong to the Jews, but they kind of took more than they were supposed to when the British gave them a haven after WW2. In my opinion, Israel is a horrid little nation.


Then who does it belong to then? Krusty The Clown?

Yes, Krusty the Clown. It belongs rightfully to Palestine

Then who does it belong to then? Krusty The Clown?
er, no Arabs.

In my opinion, I blame Israel for 9/11, and the war on Terror right now, and for a handful of other problems in the Middle East. I also agree that way to many people feel sorry for them. Israel is the most rascist country on Earth. They have a pretty big segregation between Muslims and Jews, and Israel does not truly belong to the Jews, but they kind of took more than they were supposed to when the British gave them a haven after WW2. In my opinion, Israel is a horrid little nation.
QFT

*sighs about posting*

The Hebrews originated from the land of Canaan, which is now Israel and the surrounding area. They want the land that they had first, IE. they want a Hebrew State. I mean, come on. Why not let them? There's enough Islamic nations in the world, why not a Hebrew one?


Didn't the Jews run the Canaanites out of Israel?

er, no Arabs.



er, no jews.

In my opinion, I blame Israel for 9/11, and the war on Terror right now, and for a handful of other problems in the Middle East.

You should head over to the Nazi thread, since you'd be in great company. Not only do Neo-Nazis blame Israel for 9/11 and the "war on terror", but so do all of the terror groups themselves. Aside from anti-Semites and the extreme on both sides, no one tends to blame Israel for such things. New research that attempts to do so, such as the Mearsheimer-Walt paper has been praised only by people such as David Duke (Klan leader) and shot down by virtually all of academia. Including other anti-Semites, like Chomsky.

QFT

Sorry, but what is QFT?

*sighs about posting*

The Hebrews originated from the land of Canaan, which is now Israel and the surrounding area. They want the land that they had first, IE. they want a Hebrew State. I mean, come on. Why not let them? There's enough Islamic nations in the world, why not a Hebrew one?
Thousands of years ago! Do you really want all the countries of the world today to be set up as they were thousands of years ago? no that would make sense. And to your 2nd point, a hebrew one does not belong in the middle of the Islamic ones. Just like Islamic ones dont belong with western ones*turkey in the EU cough*

Sorry, but what is QFT?
Quoted for Truth

You should head over to the Nazi thread, since you'd be in great company. Not only do Neo-Nazis blame Israel for 9/11 and the "war on terror", but so do all of the terror groups themselves. Aside from anti-Semites and the extreme on both sides, no one tends to blame Israel for such things. New research that attempts to do so, such as the Mearsheimer-Walt paper has been praised only by people such as David Duke (Klan leader) and shot down by virtually all of academia. Including other anti-Semites, like Chomsky.

Ok, go ahead and shoot this down, why are the people in the middle east pissed of at us? Its because we are helping Israel to basically enslave the Palestinians.

Ok, go ahead and shoot this down, why are the people in the middle east pissed of at us? Its because we are helping Israel to basically enslave the Palestinians.



I suggest you research what is really going on before you make a blanket statement like that.

er, no jews.
not quite, it hasnt been jewish land in a long time

I thought Jewish women were supposed to have big noses be a little homely and be too argumentative. Go Korean - all the brains but cuter and more easy going.
There is some rampant racial stereotyping for you!

Jews for teh grand wictory! \o/ :sniper:

not quite, it hasnt been jewish land in a long time


It belonged to the jews until the ottomans invaded it I believe. Try to remember that Judaism is older then Islam and the jews were in Israel before Islam and Muhammad even existed.

I suggest you research what is really going on before you make a blanket statement like that.

I have. I would like to see you give me a different reason why the Middle East does not like us.

I suggest you research what is really going on before you make a blanket statement like that.
There is a level to truth to that. Of course they are also pissed because the west makes sure secular pro-western governments stay in power, preventing the Islamic fundies from setuping up oppressive governments like in Afghanistan and somalia.

I have. I would like to see you give me a different reason why the Middle East does not like us.


Because we are not Muslims. Islamofascits hate all non-muslims.

It belonged to the jews until the ottomans invaded it I believe. Try to remember that Judaism is older then Islam and the jews were in Israel before Islam and Muhammad even existed.

So lets give Europe all over to Italy, right? I mean, Rome owned it all two thousand years ago right? Or no, you know what, lets give half of Asia to Greece. Alexander did take all that over right?

That whole thing about how they have a tendency to invade and occupy their neighbours. And you know, using land that wasnt theirs to setup their little country. Other than that its great, really greatYou might be able to make the argument that the sources they aquired the land from, didn't have the right to sell it. But I don't see how you can blame the peoples of Israel for that.

The "tendency to invade" is complete bullshit. Israel has been under siege from day one, and the sole reason they still hold the occupied territories, is because there weren't any responsible party/parties to hand it over to - both of which is their neighbours faults.

Because we are not Muslims. Islamofascits hate all non-muslims.

So why not attack China? Or Africa? Or Brazil?

It belonged to the jews until the ottomans invaded it I believe. Try to remember that Judaism is older then Islam and the jews were in Israel before Islam and Muhammad even existed.
You didnt disprove my point, you made it. The Ottoman empire hasnt been around for some time.

Ok, go ahead and shoot this down, why are the people in the middle east pissed of at us? Its because we are helping Israel to basically enslave the Palestinians.

Israel isn't enslaving the Palestinians. In fact, the Palestinian towns on the Green Line are petitioning to be a part of Israel, rather than a part of Palestine, when final borders are drawn. Why? The main reasons are better standards of health and equal rights.

I would suggest reading up on the charters of various terror groups. Those like al-Qaeda, the ones most geared toward anti-American agenda, refer mostly to the "West" in general and even Western associated countries like Saudi Arabia. Only a few specific terror groups have to do with Palestine and Israel (more than a few, really), but rarely do they direct as much attention against the West in general as other global terror groups.

So, perhaps you can explain why the terror groups that hate the US the most are the same ones that pay the least attention to Israel? Doesn't fit with your false causality, does it?

Because we are not Muslims. Islamofascits hate all non-muslims.
not quite, you should see my post on this.

So lets give Europe all over to Italy, right? I mean, Rome owned it all two thousand years ago right? Or no, you know what, lets give half of Asia to Greece. Alexander did take all that over right?



Your not making any sense. Italy stole that land from the people who owned it first, now they have it back, same as what alexander stole. Stop this silliness.

You didnt disprove my point, you made it. The Ottoman empire hasnt been around for some time.



How did I make your point? I stated it was jewish until it was taken from them.

How did I make your point? I stated it was jewish until it was taken from them.
my point was that it hasnt been jewish for a long time.

The whole thing started with the US being involved with Israel, then the rest grew from that. And there really is no real Palestine. The only chance to go anywhere is to become a second class Israeli, because they dont let Palestinians do anything. If Israel was so happy and nice, why is Hamas there?

Your not making any sense. Italy stole that land from the people who owned it first, now they have it back, same as what alexander stole. Stop this silliness.

Israel did not steal their land? Do you read the Bible? Jericho?

my point was that it hasnt been jewish for a long time.


It was always mostly jewish, just ruled by other nations at it is jewish now.

Israel did not steal their land? Do you read the Bible? Jericho?



The bible is a fantasy.

It belonged to the jews until the ottomans invaded it I believe. Try to remember that Judaism is older then Islam and the jews were in Israel before Islam and Muhammad even existed.

Wrong. Absolutly wrong.

Israel was conquered by Arabs in 638 A.D, then later absorbed into the Ottoman Empire-a thousand years later in 1517.

That land hadn't been the Jews for nearly a thousand and a half years. Just because the Judaism has been around longer than Islam does not mean they can take Arab land.

Under the same logic, we might as well give back America to the decendants of the Native Americans in compensation for the American slaughter of natives hundreds of years ago. Or, you know, pay blacks reperations for slavery or something.

Israel is the worst mistake ever made.
That country deserves all the constant attacks on it.

Lets get the facts straight. During the Ottoman Empire, very few Arabs lived in the region partitioned off as the "British Mandate of Palestine." None of them viewed themselves as "Palestinian." That term hadn't even arose yet. The few Arabs that dwelled in the Palestinian Mandate viewed themselves as Syrians. They explicitly stated that they did not want to be a part of Palestine, and that they wanted to be a part of Syria. A major Arab leader in Palestine at the time, Auni bey Abdul Hadi, stated to the Peel Comission (when they were attempting to partition it into an Arab state and a Jewish state), "There is no such country as Palestine! Palestine is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries a part of Syria." So, it is a historical fact that Jews never stole any land from a group of people called "Palestinians" - they simply didn't exist yet. It would become a national identity later, but it didn't exist when Jews began to settle.

Furthermore, as I stated, the population was very sparse. Pro-Palestinian historians like Benny Morris have conceded that less than 2,000 Arab families were resulted before the formation of the State of Israel. And those 2,000 were felaheen - they didn't own any land.

Arabs didn't begin to get displaced, and land wasn't "stolen" until Jordan, Syria, and Egypt attacked in 1948. Then, Jordan and Egypt "stole" more land than Israel did. They annexed virtually everything set aside to be a Palestinian state. It was this war that was responsible for Arab displacement. Even to this day, the majority of Palestinians in refugee camps are locked away like prisoners in Jordan. The full moral responsibility, if not the full practical responsiblity, for the displacement of Arabs falls on the neighboring Arab countries who attacked first and annexed the land set aside for a Palestinian state.

Wrong. Absolutly wrong.

Israel was conquered by Arabs in 638 A.D, then later absorbed into the Ottoman Empire-a thousand years later in 1517.

That land hadn't been the Jews for nearly a thousand and a half years. Just because the Judaism has been around longer than Islam does not mean they can take Arab land.

Under the same logic, we might as well give back America to the decendants of the Native Americans in compensation for the American slaughter of natives hundreds of years ago. Or, you know, pay blacks reperations for slavery or something.

Wrong again!

The jews had kingdoms there since 1200 BC until the Byzantine Empire invaded it and stole it from the jews. FYI, the Byzantine empire was christian.

That land hadn't been the Jews for nearly a thousand and a half years. Just because the Judaism has been around longer than Islam does not mean they can take Arab land.

They didn't take Arab land. You could see the full post above. Rather, most of the Arab land was actually stolen by other Arabs in a war that other Arab countries (Egypt, Jordan, and Syria) started. The Jews that settled in Palestine displaced less than 2,000 families, none of whom owned land. It was vastly uninhabited.

Wrong again!

The jews had kingdoms there since 1200 BC until the Byzantine Empire invaded it and stole it from the jews. FYI, the Byzantine empire was christian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isreal#Zionism_and_Aliyah

Wiki disagrees. Read the last two sentances of the second paragraph of "Historical roots."

Oh good lord.

It's true, Israel's stance on a lot of issues has created a lot of hatred against them, particularly the decision to construct settlements on the west bank. I think that was a bad decision, and they should have treated the situation with jordon and syria the same way as they did with Egypt. They gave egypt the land back after the Yom Kippur war, and egypt and israel have had reasonably peaceful relations ever since. Had they done the same with the west bank, there wouldn't be a palestinian problem; it's not like they needed the land militarily. After the 73 war, no arab nation was going to invade again. Israel had too large a military advantage, and had proven that even when hit with a suprise attack with overwhelming numbers and sufficient SAMs to neutralize their air defences, Israel could still win and survive. They didn't need the defencive depth any more. Instead they held on, and raised two generations of homeless fanatics.

Frankly, I don't see any reason for Israel's existance any more. After WWII, it might have seemed like a good idea, but nations designed to be a 'homeland' for a single ideology and religion are bound to become discriminatory. While antisemitism is still a problem, it is no where near as prevelent as it was even sixty years ago, and much of it is caused by Israel's policies. On the whole, I think the Balfour Declaration was a terrible idea... why didn't some other nation give up land willingly rather than imposing it on the arabs? and the british handled the situation with spectacular incompetance. And even then, it might have worked unless extremists on both sides ruined it with the 49 war. There were plenty of examples of arabs and jews living peacefully together before the war.

Frankly, I don't see that Israel's existance has a reason any more, and I think the world would be a better place without it. On the other hand, it IS there, and we can't wish it away. And it's proven remarkably resiliant. So have the palestinians. So the best thing would be if we managed to come to a negociated agreement with the palestinians and stopped the escalation of violence, which will never solve the problem short of genocide.

Further, jews are no better nor no worse than any other people. I certainly like certain aspects of our culture, like the emphasis on education, and I'm certainly aware that we have a much larger influence on the world than we should for a culture our size, but that's mainly because of our emphasis on education and the stubborness that let us survive thousands of years of persicution. The persicution existed, and still does, to a lesser extent. But that doesn't mean we should visit it on our neighbors the arabs.

And I'm Jewish.

Israel is the worst mistake ever made.Hardly. The colonization of the US, as others have pointed out, was a far, far greater mistake.
That country deserves all the constant attacks on it.Why?
From where I'm sitting, it sounds like you're saying that Israel should be demolished & the Israeli peoples eradicated, simply because Israel's neighbours are complete bastards.

It's like condemning a rape victim to death for fighting back..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isreal#Zionism_and_Aliyah

Wiki disagrees. Read the last two sentances of the second paragraph of "Historical roots."



Wiki is where I got it from. read the first paragraph of Historical roots. You might also want to read the part it said they conquered the land from the Byzantine Empire in 638! In other words, STOLEN BY FORCE!

Wrong again!

The jews had kingdoms there since 1200 BC until the Byzantine Empire invaded it and stole it from the jews. FYI, the Byzantine empire was christian.

O tru, so the Crusades didn't happen because the Muslims didn't rule the holy land. I get it.

Wrong again!

The jews had kingdoms there since 1200 BC until the Byzantine Empire invaded it and stole it from the jews. FYI, the Byzantine empire was christian.

Wait a minute. Hold on. I misread, sorry. So that means the land wasn't hasn't been the Jews for over three thousand years. So...why do they deserve to have it back again?

The Jews did a fair share of "Stealing Land" back in their hayday, I hear. You know, slaughtering non-belivers and wiping out civilizations at the command of God.

Wrong again!

The jews had kingdoms there since 1200 BC until the Byzantine Empire invaded it and stole it from the jews. FYI, the Byzantine empire was christian.

Not quite.

Jews lived there since about 1200 BC/E. There was at first one kingdom, which was split in two. The Northern one was destroyed by Assyria in 721 BCE, the Southern one by Babylon in 586 BCE. Babylon was conquered by Persia, and Cyrus the Great allowed the Jews to return in 537. Judea was a self governing province but still part of the Persian Empire.

Persia was conquered by Alexander, who met the Jews in 432. He treated them well, but after his death his kingdom was split. The Ptolemaic dynasty controled Judea Alexanders death until 198 when it was captured by another successor state, the Seleucid Empire. It ruled until 164 when the Maccabes threw them out. (The story of Hanukkah.)

The Jewish Hasmonean Kingdom existed as an independent state, but it was beset by civil war. One side turned to Rome for help. Judea became a cliant state of Rome until the failed Jewish Revolt of 66 CE– 73 CE.

Since then, Jews had always lived in the land of Israel. Often they were a small minority, but had a continuous presence.

O tru, so the Crusades didn't happen because the Muslims didn't rule the holy land. I get it.


Those were sanctioned by the pope most of the time..Is the pope jewish?

Wiki is where I got it from. read the first paragraph of Historical roots. You might also want to read the part it said they conquered the land from the Byzantine Empire in 638! In other words, STOLEN BY FORCE!

Keep in mind, almost all land ever taken by one country/people to form a new country/enlarge one was taken by force. So are you suggesting we change al nations around so they exist as they were as far back as we know? So, give the U.S.A. back to the Indian tribes, and so on? I mean I'm cool with that, but it seems a bit unfeasible. So why do the same for Israel?

Did I say he was? The Crusades were because Muslims took over that area and didn't let pilgrims go through there. What does this have to do with a Jewish pope?

Wait a minute. Hold on. I misread, sorry. So that means the land wasn't hasn't been the Jews for over three thousand years. So...why do they deserve to have it back again?

The Jews did a fair share of "Stealing Land" back in their hayday, I hear. You know, slaughtering non-belivers and wiping out civilizations at the command of God.


They should get it back because it was theirs to begin with. That and they need it more, Judaism can't exist without it anymore.

STOLEN BY FORCE!

BLARG, STOLEN BY FORCE! Just like the Europeans stole the Americas! Just like Gengis Kahn stole huge parts of Asia! Just like land is stolen in every single war in history! It's not that unusual for nations to lose land, you know. It's not like some higher power drew out lines for each group of people to stay in and say, "Stay here. Don't steal anyone else's land either."

Land, especially back in the Byzantine era, was power. Big deal, some people lost their land. They were conquered. Sucks for them. If they want it back, raise an army and take it back. That's how the world usually works.

Wait a minute. Hold on. I misread, sorry. So that means the land wasn't hasn't been the Jews for over three thousand years. So...why do they deserve to have it back again?

I don't think you do get it, if you think its been three thousand years. Jews retained Judea and the Jewish monarchy under Roman rule with Herod the great. This ended around 70AD. Virtually all Jews were forecfully expelled from Judea (can we say genocide?), yet a few managed to remain the majority in certain areas up until this very day.

Contrast this to Arab Palestinians, who did not exist as a distinct nationality earlier than 100 years ago, and wanted to be a part of Syria. Arab Palestinians who occupied virtually none of what was Mandatory Palestine. Jews have just as much a historical "right" to that land as Arabs do - and that is exactly what the League of Nations and the UN stated.

Land, especially back in the Byzantine era, was power. Big deal, some people lost their land. They were conquered. Sucks for them. If they want it back, raise an army and take it back. That's how the world usually works.

This is inconsistent with your previous claims - i.e. Israel is bad because it "stole" Arab land. Which is it, do you support taking the land or do you not support the fact that Israel got it in defensive wars post 48?

They should get it back because it was theirs to begin with. That and they need it more, Judaism can't exist without it anymore.

Who "Gave it" to them? As i've suggested numerous times, should we not give back the America's to Native Decendants? It was, after all, theirs to begin with.

Keep in mind, almost all land ever taken by one country/people to form a new country/enlarge one was taken by force. So are you suggesting we change al nations around so they exist as they were as far back as we know? So, give the U.S.A. back to the Indian tribes, and so on? I mean I'm cool with that, but it seems a bit unfeasible. So why do the same for Israel?



If you want to do that you wouldn't give it to the "native americans", they were beaten here by somebody else you know. But I wasn't born in the usa and don't plan on staying, so do what you want. I think america should be broken up anyway.


FYI, Israel is mostly jewish, the US isn't mostly Indian.

So why not attack China? Or Africa? Or Brazil?

Brazil is a little far away - otherwise er maybe you dont watch the news enough.

Who "Gave it" to them? As i've suggested numerous times, should we not give back the America's to Native Decendants? It was, after all, theirs to begin with.


what?!?!? The natives are about 1% of the US population, Jews are over 75% of israels. Do you plan on deporting them all? Its jewish, deal with it!

If you want to do that you wouldn't give it to the "native americans", they were beaten here by somebody else you know. But I wasn't born in the usa and don't plan on staying, so do what you want. I think america should be broken up anyway.


FYI, Israel is mostly jewish, the US isn't mostly Indian.

So yeah, but then ,the Jews were most likely beaten by someone else to the land around Israel. I mean, so what?

And who was it, anyway?

And the U.S. isn't mostly Indian, I agree, but could that maybe be due to the GENOCIDE we inflicted upon them? Hmmm...And sincce when has what ethnic group the majority of members of any state belong to had anything to do with who rules that state?

So yeah, but then ,the Jews were most likely beaten by someone else to the land around Israel.

you dont need to say "most likely". Basically every human not in africa has ancestors who walked through israel prior to the jews or palestinians recent history.
First group is either the aborigonies in australia or possibly the islanders in the eastern indian ocean.

This is inconsistent with your previous claims - i.e. Israel is bad because it "stole" Arab land. Which is it, do you support taking the land or do you not support the fact that Israel got it in defensive wars post 48?

Oh, Israel had every right to go to war in '48. They were under attack by a lot of angry people who wanted to kill them. I probably would have done the same in that situation.

The Jews were given Israel after the second world war as compensation for the Holocaust, among other things, I belive. While I think there were...better choices for a Jewish state rather than Israel, it was done. And I don't support it. There. So, the Jews got in a war in '48. They won. Woo hoo.

It's not that war that's the problem, though; it's the fact that I don't get what the Jews did to deserve the land that they had not collectively lived on for thousands of years.

And the U.S. isn't mostly Indian, I agree, but could that maybe be due to the GENOCIDE we inflicted upon them? Hmmm...And sincce when has what ethnic group the majority of members of any state belong to had anything to do with who rules that state?

In Israel, an ethnic majority doesn't "rule" the state. Unlike places where Saudi Arabia, where only Arab Muslims are allowed political positions. In fact, only Arab Muslims are allowed to drive on certain roads and enter certain cities. Or Jordan - where Jews can't even become citizens.

Yet, in Israel, we have Arab Knesset members who are elected by the Arab-Israeli population. You would be hard pressed to find an Arab minority in Israel who seriously wants Israel to be destroyed or disbanded. None of them want to live in any of the neighboring countries. This is why Palestinians are constantly trying to get citizenship (as well as Egyptians, Jordanians, Lebanese, Syrians, etc.) and why the towns on the Green Line want to be a part of Israel rather than a future Palestinian state.

So yeah, but then ,the Jews were most likely beaten by someone else to the land around Israel. I mean, so what?

And who was it, anyway?


The canaanites, but they don't exist anymore I think. The point is the land belonged to the Jews until multiple forces forced them out.

And the U.S. isn't mostly Indian, I agree, but could that maybe be due to the GENOCIDE we inflicted upon them? Hmmm...And sincce when has what ethnic group the majority of members of any state belong to had anything to do with who rules that state?


The europeans started that genocide. So are you saying the majority should never run its own county that its been in for thousands of years?

what?!?!? The natives are about 1% of the US population, Jews are over 75% of israels. Do you plan on deporting them all? Its jewish, deal with it!

...It's the same concept. The Jews suffered terrible tradgety in the second world war, and apparently they deserve land for it. The Natives had their civilization nearly wiped out by Europeans; should not they get a peice of land and their own state as well, made up of the land they originally lived on hundreds of years ago?

Oh, Israel had every right to go to war in '48. They were under attack by a lot of angry people who wanted to kill them. I probably would have done the same in that situation.

The Jews were given Israel after the second world war as compensation for the Holocaust, among other things, I belive. While I think there were...better choices for a Jewish state rather than Israel, it was done. And I don't support it. There. So, the Jews got in a war in '48. They won. Woo hoo.

Actually plans for a Jewish state are pre-Holocaust. And the very beginnings of Jewish immigration with a state in mind start in the late 19th century.

It's not that war that's the problem, though; it's the fact that I don't get what the Jews did to deserve the land that they had not collectively lived on for thousands of years.

You have to remember, this wasn't land bustling with Palestinains. This was vast nothingness. Jews came with the kibbutz movement and developed the land. This increased Arab immigration to the area, and Arabs began to work for Jews (leaving their previous Arab employers) due to better pay and work conditions. Today, the land is the best agricultural land in the Middle East, all a result of Jewish development. That is what they did to deserve the land, in my opinion, among other things.

you dont need to say "most likely". Basically every human not in africa has ancestors who walked through israel prior to the jews or palestinians recent history.
First group is either the aborigonies in australia or possibly the islanders in the eastern indian ocean.


Nope. The aborigonies are believed to only have gotten to australia 10,000 years ago. The human race is a tad older than that.

...It's the same concept. The Jews suffered terrible tradgety in the second world war, and apparently they deserve land for it. The Natives had their civilization nearly wiped out by Europeans; should not they get a peice of land and their own state as well, made up of the land they originally lived on hundreds of years ago?


they do have their own land. :rolleyes:

...It's the same concept. The Jews suffered terrible tradgety in the second world war, and apparently they deserve land for it. The Natives had their civilization nearly wiped out by Europeans; should not they get a peice of land and their own state as well, made up of the land they originally lived on hundreds of years ago?

Slow down, slow down. See the post above. Jews were not given a state due to the Holocaust. Jewish plans for a state are pre-Nazi Germany, as is Jewish settlement in preparation for a state. The Holocaust occured right on the brink of serious Jewish politics in the Middle East, when the plans for a Jewish state were already in the works. The British are responsible for thousands of Jews dying during the Holocaust for cutting off Jewish pre-state immigration due to Arab complaints (such as from the Grand Mufti, who worked with Eichmann to build gas chambers in Germany).

they do have their own land. :rolleyes:

What, reservations?

Yea, great land there. So much better than the original land that they lived on.

I'm talking about the concept of a seperate and united Native nation, not simply native landowners. The Natives deserve it as much as the Jews do, in my opinion.

What, reservations?

Yea, great land there. So much better than the original land that they lived on.

I'm talking about the concept of a seperate and united Native nation, not simply native landowners. The Natives deserve it as much as the Jews do, in my opinion.



The "natives" are perfectly happy with what they have. They aren't greedy and don't want nor need anymore and haven't asked for anymore.

It's not that war that's the problem, though; it's the fact that I don't get what the Jews did to deserve the land that they had not collectively lived on for thousands of years.Down that way line the beast of pointlessness lurking. Nobody ever did anything to deserve the countries they have, save perhaps being born.

I agree that the creation of Israel was a bad move. Not because it's Israel or because the Jewish peoples don't deserve a place to call their own, but because much of the resulting trouble was forseeable. But I'm also of the opinion that what's done is done, and that people need to accept it & move the on.

Why fight Israel?
Nobody in the world has a more legitimate claim to the land, than the peoples of Israel (who aren't just Euro-Jews, by the way).
Moreover, Israel was never the aggressor. If the neighbouring countries hadn't tried to steal the land, the current situation wouldn't have been created. Israel wouldn't be annexing the Palestinian territories, because they wouldn't be occupying it.

Worse still, Israel couldn't even give back the occupied territories, because there's no one to hand it over to - at least, not without causing what might as well be mass-murder on the peoples in the territories.

So what exactly would you have them do? And what is it you have against Israel?

Nope. The aborigines are believed to only have gotten to Australia 10,000 years ago. The human race is a tad older than that.

They had to walk there all the way from Africa and in the mean time various other waves had to come by and kill off the ancestors they left behind, so while they might have got to Australia 10,000 years ago (I would say it was longer) they got to Israel hundreds of thousands of years ago (you can see the evidence for the waves, each one not quite obliterating the previous one, in the anthropology of south east Asia / Australasia).

If you have a candidate for an earlier wave who is it?

What, reservations?

Yea, great land there. So much better than the original land that they lived on.

I'm talking about the concept of a seperate and united Native nation, not simply native landowners. The Natives deserve it as much as the Jews do, in my opinion.
Uh, dumb-dumb, how many Indians want their own nation? The U.S. is perfectly fine for them.

The "natives" are perfectly happy with what they have. They aren't greedy and don't want nor need anymore and haven't asked for anymore.

Har. How little you know.

I happen to have a very good friend who works as a part-time teacher at a Reservation out in Arizona. The conditions are shit, there's no agriculture at all, the infrastructure of the very reservation is hardly functioning, and many youths are in violent gangs.

Yea, I'm sure you and I would be happy with it, too.

Har. How little you know.

I happen to have a very good friend who works as a part-time teacher at a Reservation out in Arizona. The conditions are shit, there's no agriculture at all, the infrastructure of the very reservation is hardly functioning, and many youths are in violent gangs.

Yea, I'm sure you and I would be happy with it, too.
Sounds like the rest of the U.S. to me pal.

They had to walk there all the way from Africa and in the mean time various other waves had to come by and kill off the ancestors they left behind, so while they might have got to Australia 10,000 years ago (I would say it was longer) they got to Israel hundreds of thousands of years ago (you can see the evidence for the waves, each one not quite obliterating the previous one, in the anthropology of south east Asia / Australasia).

If you have a candidate for an earlier wave who is it?



I don't buy that out of africa theory. Remember Javaman? I believe we evolved and different times at different areas around the world. It's only a matter of time before it is prove and the whole africa deal makes less sense. But to be honest, I really couldn't care less.

Har. How little you know.

I happen to have a very good friend who works as a part-time teacher at a Reservation out in Arizona. The conditions are shit, there's no agriculture at all, the infrastructure of the very reservation is hardly functioning, and many youths are in violent gangs.

Yea, I'm sure you and I would be happy with it, too.


Good lord. Listen, they don't want more land! Just better living conditions in what they have!

Sounds like the rest of the U.S. to me pal.

Um. Most places in the States are a little bit more functional than the average reservation. Last I checked, a majority of U.S. citzens have at least semi-decent homes, a steady source of income, and basic infrastructure. For the most part, not so on reservations.

These reservations are barely what I would call "part of the first world."

Sounds like the rest of the U.S. to me pal.
Well not all of it. But there are some equally bad conditions people are born into and have no way of escaping.

Um. Most places in the States are a little bit more functional than the average reservation. Last I checked, a majority of U.S. citzens have at least semi-decent homes, a steady source of income, and basic infrastructure. For the most part, not so on reservations.

These reservations are barely what I would call "part of the first world."

You have to remember that reservation life isn't a result strictly of the reservation, but has to do with a lot of other social and cultural factors. If we turned a reservation into Beverly Hills overnight, it would just collapse and go back to being a reservation.

These reservations are barely what I would call "part of the first world."
So are ghettos and projects. Not all parts of a 1st world country have tip top living conditions.

Um. Most places in the States are a little bit more functional than the average reservation. Last I checked, a majority of U.S. citzens have at least semi-decent homes, a steady source of income, and basic infrastructure. For the most part, not so on reservations.

These reservations are barely what I would call "part of the first world."
*Yawns*. So what is the exact purpose of a reservation?

I don't buy that out of africa theory. Remember Javaman? I believe we evolved and different times at different areas around the world. It's only a matter of time before it is prove and the whole africa deal makes less sense. But to be honest, I really couldn't care less.

I think out of africa explains the anthropology better but if you are right they still must have left africa at some stage. Maybe it would be a tie between a whole "super group" like "asians" - anyway, probaly not either jews or arabs. It might even be possible to find it out with a bit of analysis of old bones. that would be quite interesting I think...

There is a level to truth to that. Of course they are also pissed because the west makes sure secular pro-western governments stay in power, preventing the Islamic fundies from setuping up oppressive governments like in Afghanistan and somalia.

Another thing you might want to put down in writing is that the people the West generally prop up tend to treat their own people poorly. The Shah of Iran comes to mind. There are quite a few more actually who were supported by the US but were tin pot dictators.

Another example. Pre-Kuwait Iraq and Saddam Hussein. Saddam Hussein was a great friend of the US administration and recieved numerous forms of aid, including, but not limited to, chemical weaponrs, when they wanted him to contain the Iranians.

But during the time when he enjoyed US support, the CIA was fairly well informed as to his blood soaked past. That and the goon squads he had running around stiffling dissenters.

Granted, a prosperous and relatively just society will not stop lunatic fundies from preaching their rubbish (Pat Robertson), but at the same time, a lot less people would be willing to listen to them.

The problem is that US proxy governments have almost always resulted in societies that were either not very prosperous, unjust or both.

The problem is that US proxy governments have almost always resulted in societies that were either not very prosperous, unjust or both.

Of course, this has almost always been in countries where there wouldn't have been a prosperous or just government anyway.:headbang:

no, isreal is not the best. I don't want to sound like a nazi here, but I think there shouldent be a jewish state.

No, I have nothing against judaism. just religious states of any kind.

no, isreal is not the best. I don't want to sound like a nazi here, but I think there shouldent be a jewish state.

No, I have nothing against judaism. just religious states of any kind.

So are there any other ethnicities you'd like to take a state away from, or just Jews?

no, isreal is not the best. I don't want to sound like a nazi here, but I think there shouldent be a jewish state.Too late.No, I have nothing against judaism. just religious states of any kind.Israel isn't a religious state, and there's more than just Jews living there.

So are there any other ethnicities you'd like to take a state away from, or just Jews?
no, I think we should take a state away fromreligions, not ethnicties.

no, I think we should take a state away fromreligions, not ethnicties.

Oh, well it might help you to know that Israel is a secular state. If you'd like to disband religious states, you could start with Saudi Arabia and Iran.

OK - Here is my opinion.

World War 2 and the persecution of the Jews was really, really horrible. I can see why they were given a state, but I don't necessarily agree with it.

It probably sounded like an excellent idea at the time, but surely a second's thought would have said "put them somewhere in which they have not been fighting the Arabs for thousands of years", no?

Maybe putting the state of Israel in Sardinia or something would have been a better idea, or possibly what would have been the best idea would have been to return the Jews to the lands which they came from, and give them reperations from the funds of the Allies.

That would have definitely have sorted out the problem much better.

I respect Judaism for its views on education (although it isn't the only religion to do this, up until about 500 years ago, Islam was the main religion of science) and I can see why it seemed like a good idea to give them a state.

On the other hand, getting a land of your own, which is taken from someone else, someone that there has never been much agreement with, because you were persecuted, is wrong.

That is why I am against there being a state of Israel, but on the other hand, why I don't mind Judaism.

OK - Here is my opinion.

World War 2 and the persecution of the Jews was really, really horrible. I can see why they were given a state, but I don't necessarily agree with it.

WW2 didn't result in Jews being given land. The foundations for the State of Israel had been set down decades before that.


On the other hand, getting a land of your own, which is taken from someone else, someone that there has never been much agreement with, because you were persecuted, is wrong.

Now, I know you know better, because you've been told before. Israel didn't take land from Palestinians. I challenge you to show me one single account of Jews stealing land from Palestinians before 1948. Less than 2,000 families were displaced, according to pro-Palestinian sources like Benny Morris, and these were not land owners. At this point you're either (still) misinformed, or just being deliberately dishonest. Settlement in unowned land is not taking land from anyone.

WW2 didn't result in Jews being given land. The foundations for the State of Israel had been set down decades before that.
It would certainly appear that WW2 was a catalyst for it, though.
Now, I know you know better, because you've been told before. Israel didn't take land from Palestinians. I challenge you to show me one single account of Jews stealing land from Palestinians before 1948. Less than 2,000 families were displaced, according to pro-Palestinian sources like Benny Morris, and these were not land owners. At this point you're either (still) misinformed, or just being deliberately dishonest. Settlement in unowned land is not taking land from anyone.
2000 families is still a fairly high number, and my point was mainly that it was an exceptionally poor place to put the state of Israel.

You're right, I'll be honest, I am fairly misinformed upon this.

It would certainly appear that WW2 was a catalyst for it, though.

WW2 became added justification and support. Ironically (and horrifingly) Jewish immigration to Palestine was cut off during the peak of the Holocaust, resulting in tens of thousands of Jewish deaths.

2000 families is still a fairly high number, and my point was mainly that it was an exceptionally poor place to put the state of Israel.

You're right, I'll be honest, I am fairly misinformed upon this.

Yes, it was a poor place. Zionists really hadn't taken into consideration that they would have to live surrounded by a bunch of hostile neighbors. It was a bad move, but it will work itself out. If there were some way to dismantle the State of Israel, it would be a worse move.

Now, many Palestinians were displaced, and land was stolen, in the 1948 war. This isn't the fault of Israel alone; Israel was attacked by three neighboring Arab states. And these Arab states seized just as much land as Israel. We also don't know how many Arabs were displaced as a result of the actions of each side, only how many refugees were created. While Israel and the Arab states bear responsibility for this existential refugee problem, and stealing Palestinian land, the Arab states bare the moral responsibility since it resulted from them attacking first.

WW2 became added justification and support. Ironically (and horrifingly) Jewish immigration to Palestine was cut off during the peak of the Holocaust, resulting in tens of thousands of Jewish deaths.
Crikey, I didn't know that happened :(

It would seem that there were rather few places for Jews to go, methinks.
The USA - The quotas didn't let them in
France - A lot of underground anti-Semitism
Poland - Was about to get invaded
Britain - Was in a terrible state
The USSR - Memories of the Jewish Purges and I don't think they got let in anyway.
Italy - Mussolini

So I guess it was Switzerland, then, which wasn't a cheap place to live.
Yes, it was a poor place. Zionists really hadn't taken into consideration that they would have to live surrounded by a bunch of hostile neighbors. It was a bad move, but it will work itself out. If there were some way to dismantle the State of Israel, it would be a worse move.
I don't know... if the land was given to the neighbouring states (and the Israelis could still live there and such) then maybe that might stop a lot of tension in the area.
Now, many Palestinians were displaced, and land was stolen, in the 1948 war. This isn't the fault of Israel alone; Israel was attacked by three neighboring Arab states. And these Arab states seized just as much land as Israel. We also don't know how many Arabs were displaced as a result of the actions of each side, only how many refugees were created. While Israel and the Arab states bear responsibility for this existential refugee problem, and stealing Palestinian land, the Arab states bare the moral responsibility since it resulted from them attacking first.
Ah, but the moral responsibility could fall in many other places, and I would say that the Allies, the creators of Israel, were at least partially to blame on this one, by putting Israel on some of the better land in the area, and putting Israel in a very hostile location.

I agree, the Arabs did a terrible thing, and it was never going to end well whatever happened, but they're not the only ones to blame

I don't know... if the land was given to the neighbouring states (and the Israelis could still live there and such) then maybe that might stop a lot of tension in the area.

Its difficult to tell what would have happened. Tensions were extremely high before Israel declared its independence, and Jews were being systematically exterminated in Palestine by Arabs. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem visited with Adolf Eichmann and had adopted plans to build gas chambers on Palestinian soil. It was probably too hostile for a Jewish minority to live within an Arab majority.

Ah, but the moral responsibility could fall in many other places, and I would say that the Allies, the creators of Israel, were at least partially to blame on this one, by putting Israel on some of the better land in the area, and putting Israel in a very hostile location.

I don't think the land was better. When Jews began to immigrate in the late 19th century, virtually all of the land was useless. It was developed using advanced farming techniques on kibbutzim that hadn't been used in the Middle East before. Then, once the land began getting further developed, the British did things like give 17,000 dunams of land out of 750,000 to Jews, while giving 350,000 to Arabs. If you look at the map of Israel when it declared its independence, it looks almost like three little blocks of land, and is non-contigious in one place. Most of that land was undeveloped and not worth much. Israel didn't get some of the good land until the Arab nations attacked and it pushed forward to create defensible bordres.

Its difficult to tell what would have happened. Tensions were extremely high before Israel declared its independence, and Jews were being systematically exterminated in Palestine by Arabs. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem visited with Adolf Eichmann and had adopted plans to build gas chambers on Palestinian soil. It was probably too hostile for a Jewish minority to live within an Arab majority.
Indeed, which is why I thought that maybe putting it somewhere like Sardinia (reasonably good land, not too hostile and it's an island, which is always handy) would be a much better idea.
I don't think the land was better. When Jews began to immigrate in the late 19th century, virtually all of the land was useless. It was developed using advanced farming techniques on kibbutzim that hadn't been used in the Middle East before. Then, once the land began getting further developed, the British did things like give 17,000 dunams of land out of 750,000 to Jews, while giving 350,000 to Arabs. If you look at the map of Israel when it declared its independence, it looks almost like three little blocks of land, and is non-contigious in one place. Most of that land was undeveloped and not worth much. Israel didn't get some of the good land until the Arab nations attacked and it pushed forward to create defensible bordres.
Ah. That might well be where my error lies in my views of Israel. I haven't seen any maps of it before 1948 and hence presumed that it covered a fairly large area. I didn't know that it was actually very small once.

Ah. That might well be where my error lies in my views of Israel. I haven't seen any maps of it before 1948 and hence presumed that it covered a fairly large area. I didn't know that it was actually very small once.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/middle_east/03/v3_israel_palestinians/maps/img/1947_un_partition300.gifhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/middle_east/03/v3_israel_palestinians/maps/img/1949_armistice_line_300.gif

Ah. That might well be where my error lies in my views of Israel. I haven't seen any maps of it before 1948 and hence presumed that it covered a fairly large area. I didn't know that it was actually very small once.

Here is a map of Israel in 1947 (http://www.factsofisrael.com/en/maps/1947.gif). The only good land on this map is the middle sliver; the top portion is not connected, making it a non-contigious state, and the bottom portion is almost all desert.

And here is Israel in 1949 (http://www.uc3m.es/uc3m/dpto/HC/SIGLOS/israel-1949.jpg). A lot of the land needed to make the borders more secure was taken, and that included valuable farmland resources (such as in the northwest part).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/middle_east/03/v3_israel_palestinians/maps/img/1947_un_partition300.gif
Hmm that plan wasn't very good at all.

I'd have Palestine to the south and Israel to the north myself, and I've have Jerusalem splitting the border, with half of it on the Israeli side and half of it on the Palestinian side.

No walls or anything, though.

no, isreal is not the best. I don't want to sound like a nazi here, but I think there shouldent be a jewish state.

No, I have nothing against judaism. just religious states of any kind.

However, the Jews are also considered a race as much as a religion, hence they do have the right to self-determination, and to a state. While Israel does have some religious functions established within their State, it's pretty minimal.

Hmm that plan wasn't very good at all.

I'd have Palestine to the south and Israel to the north myself, and I've have Jerusalem splitting the border, with half of it on the Israeli side and half of it on the Palestinian side.

No walls or anything, though.

Nah, the Jews had already settled in most of those areas, I think.

EDIT: Is anyone else sick to death of Palestine v. Israel threads? They are just multiplying like f*****g rabbits!

Nah, the Jews had already settled in most of those areas, I think.
*sighs*

Probably, and I guess that they wouldn't take too well to being moved on, I suppose.

Still, that would be my own "ideal" solution, although it's doubtless riddled with flaws.

I'm not Jewish, but they really do rock. They are supremely intelligent, and they fight terror more then the U.S. They are so organized. Anyway, state something about the awsome Jewish race, good or bad.
Israel is the best!
Israel =/= Jews in general

Yes, I respect the Jewish people. In most societies they have made disproportionate cultural contributions.

A few generations back, prior to the turn of the last century, a jewish girl in Kansas married a gentile and years later, long after she had passed away, her ethnic looks are still cropping up in a child here or there. That was my great-grandmother and her family was one of a few jewish families who came to Kansas to farm and make a go of it along with all the other sod-busters.

These jews were considered peculiar at the time and kept largely to themselves in small farm enclaves. The Kansas frontier was dotted with communities of every kind of immigrant imaginable, Dutch, French, Chech and European Jews just to name a few. It was not an uncommon thing for the language to change from town to town, although nearly everyone spoke enough English to get along.

Finding farming to be more difficult than they were lead to believe, they soon returned to the occupations of their fathers and became merchants and traders. Here they flourished and later became city officials, sheriffs and eldermen of small towns that cropped up on the Kansas plains. Being reasonable people they realized their numbers were too few to inter-marry safely and so married the local gentiles.

The story of these early jewish kansas pioneers can be read here:
http://www.kancoll.org/books/harris/sodcontents.htm#contents

A few family re-unions ago we took a picture of my brother and two of my cousins together because they alone in a family of white crackers inherited her ethnic looks. This photo is known as "the three jews" and the resemblence is absolutely amazing. My grandmother, her daughter, would have been both proud and slightly embarrassed I think.

My grandmother passed on to her children a sense of "family above all else" and encouraged all to pursue educations, work hard, and scrimp and save. These are the jewish values that were passed on to her. When she passed away, she left what she had to an education fund founded by her husband's religion...the Methodists.

My daughter and I have taken an interest in digging up some of this family history and recover some of this lost identity. It's been pretty interesting. Having a jewish ancestor is like having an italian, irish or native american ancestor. There are somethings about it that are really cool and somethings that are not so cool, somethings that we are proud of and somethings that are downright embarrassing. Its just geneology when you get right down to it and precious few of us are thouroughbred anything, so why overly identify with any of it?

At any rate, the more you learn about jews, and what it means to be jewish, the less likely you are to "flat out hate" (to quote the title of another thread) them. Good luck on your journey. =)

*sigh*

as a jew, i feel that people should try just, i dunno, stop stereotyping us either way and just let us be. could some mature mod/admin please lock this? so freakin pointless and it invariably leads to stupid, ignorant people saying stupid, ignorant, yet hurtful things.

Wait a minute sir. You are licking your wounds before they have been inflicted. If this thread were titled "THE IRISH ROCK!", would you expect to see such a pitiful post? Come now. You are embarrassing me.

In my opinion, I blame Israel for 9/11, and the war on Terror right now, and for a handful of other problems in the Middle East. I also agree that way to many people feel sorry for them. Israel is the most rascist country on Earth. They have a pretty big segregation between Muslims and Jews, and Israel does not truly belong to the Jews, but they kind of took more than they were supposed to when the British gave them a haven after WW2. In my opinion, Israel is a horrid little nation.

Well you chose to put the word "Confederacy" in your name, so how seriously are we supposed to take you, redneck?

I'm not Jewish, but they really do rock. They are supremely intelligent, and they fight terror more then the U.S. They are so organized. Anyway, state something about the awsome Jewish race, good or bad.
Israel is the best!
I'm sitting in a room right now with a Jew...

I can't say that I agree with you in the least.

This guy is NOT organized.

He's smart, but not smarter than me.

The only thing he fights is me when I try and get the last can of Diet Pepsi.

The only good thing I can say about Jews from what I've seen is that the woman are damn fine cooks! Every Jewish woman I've met to date can cook.

Jews are cool people, but they aren't superior or anything over any other religion. Of course the sad thing about them is that they have such a long history of being oppresed by one tyrannical empire after another. A history so long it even dates back to ancient egypt and continues today with extremist Iran.

Actually, I am a self-hating Jew. I suck! See:

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h153/IlieNS/photos%20of%20me/jew.jpg

...AND I have a German dog. Obviously begging for my own destruction.

Jews? Oh yeah, definitely. I love jews. Especially orange jews, with the pulp, gets you going in the morning and also has tons of vitamin C. :)

The depressing thing is that before the israel was set up jews and muslims lived together in that area in relative peace, it was only after all the muslims were told to piss off that everything got shitty.

imho, israel should not have been created, it was a stupid idea in the first place and was nothing more than some kind of gimmic out of sympathy for the holocaust which although terrible is no excuse to kick a load of totally unrelated people out of their homes

thank you for having a great time bashing isreal on the stupidty of creating a jewish state. isreal is the only democracy in the middle east and i dont want any crap about lebanon. when the arabs fled israel they ran from the wind. the mufti and the neighboring arab states pumped them full of propaganda saying that the jews raped and all that crap. all of israels land was won in defensive wars. arabs in the arab revolt in 1936-1939 was started by the english to get rid of the jews. moderates(real moderates not abu mazen who tells its a crime but helps them) were killed and forcefully silenced by the mufti. the mufti was selected from more educated and popular people by some jew who deserves to burn in hell. arabs started attacking the jews way before the state was created. the lawerence thing is a bunch of crap. now why do the muslims hate the jews because A. we don't feel like dying B. we do have a nice place which we made! C. we don't feel like being second class citzens (i expect a bunch of crap on how arab israelies are second class) D. our good friend the prophet couldn't get us to convert, so he killed us all in medina, and wrote that we are infedels. E. as long as we sit along and let them kill us it is fun. like if you could steal i bet 99% of america would be looting and killing peoples. britan did not let jews come to it and switzerland was practicly nazi.

Actually, I am a self-hating Jew. I suck! See:

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h153/IlieNS/photos%20of%20me/jew.jpg

...AND I have a German dog. Obviously begging for my own destruction.
u bitch ten to one you are not jewish and photoshoped it on the internet

u bitch ten to one you are not jewish and photoshoped it on the internet

I'm sorry sweet pea, I actually am Jewish. Although I DID use Paint to add in the words to that picture. Those words don't just float about my head in real life.

Jews? Oh yeah, definitely. I love jews. Especially orange jews, with the pulp, gets you going in the morning and also has tons of vitamin C. :)

srry to ruin your joke but thier are orange jews. there are jews when they were exiled from israel went to china, india, and afgahnastan

srry to ruin your joke but thier are orange jews. there are jews when they were exiled from israel went to china, india, and afgahnastan

Please tell me this is an evil puppet. :p

srry to ruin your joke but thier are orange jews. there are jews when they were exiled from israel went to china, india, and afgahnastan

And they're called orange??? :confused:

I'm sorry sweet pea, I actually am Jewish. Although I DID use Paint to add in the words to that picture. Those words don't just float about my head in real life.

really i thought they did. you know i do not understand why 5 of ten jews hate themselves. if we could convert the chinese it would be okay.
u r still a bitch

And they're called orange??? :confused:
japense/chinese/korean/slash asian pacific nations derogatorie term is orange you damn crackers.

Please tell me this is an evil puppet. :p

i have evil puppets:upyours: :headbang: :sniper: :mp5: :gundge:

japense/chinese/korean/slash asian pacific nations derogatorie term is orange you damn crackers.

Actually people of East Asian decent have been labeled as "yellow" by early Westerners, though orange is close enough to yellow, I dunno where the hell that comes from.

really i thought they did. you know i do not understand why 5 of ten jews hate themselves. if we could convert the chinese it would be okay.
u r still a bitch

Okay, I'll try to be fair here because sometimes I don't understand sarcasm online. It is very difficult to tell if there's no other social cues. So please, let me make it clear to you that I do not actually hate myself, I am Jewish and proud of it, and I was using the picture to demonstrate how silly it is to typecast ordinary people into maliciously extraordinary beings.

...I don't know why you think I'm a bitch, and I don't know what you're talking about with Chinese people but chances are I don't want to know.

Okay, I'll try to be fair here because sometimes I don't understand sarcasm online. It is very difficult to tell if there's no other social cues. So please, let me make it clear to you that I do not actually hate myself, I am Jewish and proud of it, and I was using the picture to demonstrate how silly it is to typecast ordinary people into maliciously extraordinary beings.

...I don't know why you think I'm a bitch, and I don't know what you're talking about with Chinese people but chances are I don't want to know.

watch the lost tribes.
(a documentry on the finding jews who were exiled from israel by bavel)
do german dogs eat bitches.

watch the lost tribes.

do german dogs eat bitches.

Hahaha! Oh my...okay, I give up, you win. You're completely incomprehensible! And I love that last statement...maybe it's time I had a sig, eh?

Actually people of East Asian decent have been labeled as "yellow" by early Westerners, though orange is close enough to yellow, I dunno where the hell that comes from.

check out axis and allies japense r orange. not yellow

isreal is the only democracy in the middle east and i dont want any crap about lebanon.
You're completely forgetting Iran and now Iraq. That at the Occupied Territories, Egypt and also Lebanon.
britan did not let jews come to it and switzerland was practicly nazi.
Britain - it was more that it was in a crap state and nobody wanted to come to it.

Switzerland was the best hope for the Jews to be honest (the Gypsies escaped a fair amount of persecution there).

Hahaha! Oh my...okay, I give up, you win. You're completely incomprehensible! And I love that last statement...maybe it's time I had a sig, eh?

probably

probably

Let's be friends? :cool:

You're completely forgetting Iran and now Iraq. That at the Occupied Territories, Egypt and also Lebanon.

Britain - it was more that it was in a crap state and nobody wanted to come to it.

Switzerland was the best hope for the Jews to be honest (the Gypsies escaped a fair amount of persecution there).

iran= needs the mullahs permission
egypt=your only choice is to vote for or against the dam president.
hezbollah killing all the christains

srry to ruin your joke but thier are orange jews. there are jews when they were exiled from israel went to china, india, and afgahnastan
Orange Jews?

Nederlanders?

iran= needs the mullahs permission
Seemingly quite a lot of parties have it, and you can vote for different parties, making it a democracy.
egypt=your only choice is to vote for or against the dam president.
Yes, which makes it a democracy.
hezbollah killing all the christains
That's because there has been a civil war going on for years between the Christians and Muslims, they're just one side.

That whole thing about how they have a tendency to invade and occupy their neighbours. And you know, using land that wasnt theirs to setup their little country. Other than that its great, really great:rolleyes:


Wow you really must have paid attention in school ...how many times did you fail history ? You must have really had to work hard to be that ignorant of historical facts .

You should head over to the Nazi thread, since you'd be in great company. Not only do Neo-Nazis blame Israel for 9/11 and the "war on terror", but so do all of the terror groups themselves. Aside from anti-Semites and the extreme on both sides, no one tends to blame Israel for such things. New research that attempts to do so, such as the Mearsheimer-Walt paper has been praised only by people such as David Duke (Klan leader) and shot down by virtually all of academia. Including other anti-Semites, like Chomsky.

Ts you conider Chomski an anti -semite ? I consider him just a left wing, faux intelligenista , radical asshole ..but never thought to add anti -semite.

I'm not Jewish, but they really do rock. They are supremely intelligent, and they fight terror more then the U.S. They are so organized. Anyway, state something about the awsome Jewish race, good or bad.
Israel is the best!

Has anyone ever had that German dessert called Jew goo. I went there and it was served everywhere. They are still very much involved in the Jewish culture.

I'm not Jewish, but they really do rock. They are supremely intelligent, and they fight terror more then the U.S. They are so organized. Anyway, state something about the awsome Jewish race, good or bad.
Israel is the best!

Has anyone ever had that German dessert called Jew goo. I went there and it was served everywhere. They are still very much involved in the Jewish culture.

Seemingly quite a lot of parties have it, and you can vote for different parties, making it a democracy.

Yes, which makes it a democracy.

That's because there has been a civil war going on for years between the Christians and Muslims, they're just one side.

a really democratic thing egypt has, you call that a democracy come on.

the mullah= crazy man, iran=hell. not only that they are holding a big amount of jews hostage. also all those parties are islamofacist.

hezbollah is not a side it is terrorist orginazation.

dude if you like these guys so much why not just start living there, see how u like it.

Wow you really must have paid attention in school ...how many times did you fail history ? You must have really had to work hard to be that ignorant of historical facts .
Actually no. My statements are accurate, seems to me you are the one ignorant of history. And I would appreicate not being flamed.

Orange Jews?

Nederlanders?

yellow orange same thing. orange roxs

Let's be friends? :cool:
y not;)

Actually no. My statements are accurate, seems to me you are the one ignorant of history. And I would appreicate not being flamed.

do you know your history, explain to me when and where they did that.

Orange Jews?

Nederlanders?

There actually are Jewish Nederlanders too!

I really do think that most Jews are ethno-religiously Jewish.

Only a small percent(blonde haired jews or just plain black jews) are not racially jewish rather they are jewish because in the past their ancestors converted to the religon, so if this small percentage gives up judaism then I dont think that they should be counted as Jews anymore.

However for instance if you are an Ashkenazi or a Sephardi Jew then even if you give up Judaism you are still racially Jewish.

Thats what I believe.

What I find is that when Jewish chicks are hot, they are HOT, like smoking hot. She must be a parking ticket, 'cause she's got fine written all over her.

I really do think that most Jews are ethno-religiously Jewish.

Only a small percent(blonde haired jews or just plain black jews) are not racially jewish rather they are jewish because in the past their ancestors converted to the religon, so if this small percentage gives up judaism then I dont think that they should be counted as Jews anymore.

However for instance if you are an Ashkenazi or a Sephardi Jew then even if you give up Judaism you are still racially Jewish.

Thats what I believe.

I'm a blonde Jew and as far as I know I am Ashkenazi Jewish.

I'm a blonde Jew and as far as I know I am Ashkenazi Jewish.


I saw your picture.

Your parents have been lying to you your entire life. :p

You look like a posterboy of an Aryan Nazi Youth organization for christs sake.

I saw your picture.

Your parents have been lying to you your entire life. :p

You look like a posterboy of an Aryan Nazi Youth organization for christs sake.

Ehh...lol:p ...err...umm....hmm....:p

I dont know about all that....and I'm not sure whether to take that as a compliment or an insult, lol....but um...ok?

No, my parents are both Jewish and my dads whole side of the family is very very light blonde, like me...we are all very tall too, I'm like 6'3 almost 6'4. Yet, we are Ashkenazi Jewish as far as we know.

*sighs about posting*

The Hebrews originated from the land of Canaan, which is now Israel and the surrounding area. They want the land that they had first, IE. they want a Hebrew State. I mean, come on. Why not let them? There's enough Islamic nations in the world, why not a Hebrew one?


that is SO naive, the entire reply... is nothing but rediculous, you cant claim a land that people from your same religion lived 3000 years ago, that would cause chaos, you are claiming a land because it was the founding of your religion, would that mean that Chinese should claim India since it was the mother of Buddhism?? NO, indians have abandoned Buddhism and adopted Hinduism, what i want to say is, People dont realize that 3000 years ago, Jews living in Canaan are the palestinians that are living today, but throught history they adopted christianity then Islam, so this is nothing but a big fraud..........

and you say there's enaugh Islamic nations, FINE claim Germany and make them refugees in Europe, since there are enaugh christian nations in the world... thats just redicoulus...

iran= needs the mullahs permission
egypt=your only choice is to vote for or against the dam president.
hezbollah killing all the christains

OMG they do exist....

people that actually believe Hollywood crap... and CNN bullSH1t

Because we are not Muslims. Islamofascits hate all non-muslims. --Express Suıko (srry If I spelt that wrong)

Wow.. are you kıddıng me? Please tell me that by sayıng that we [Amerıcans] are not Muslım you ımply that we are a natıon of many relıgıons and, at least ın prıncıple, do not support any one relıgıon as accordıng to separatıon between church an state. I hope you dıdnt mean that there ısnt a relevant amount of Muslım people ın thıs country because, trust me, there are mıllıons upon mıllıons of Muslım people ın Amerıca and ıt ıs the fastest growıng relıgıon ın the US & the world too ıf I remember correctly.

Ts you conider Chomski an anti -semite ? I consider him just a left wing, faux intelligenista , radical asshole ..but never thought to add anti -semite.

You forget, everybody who disagrees with TS is an anti-semite at some level whether they themselves know it or not. One night I might wake up, standing on a podium in a funny uniform with large, brutish looking shaven headed men with their hands in the air, shouting things like "Heil" at me, and have no idea how I got there.

"Ahhh", you say, "but I'm Jewish". "You just are a self hating Jew" sez TS. Theres no way out.

Lol :p

OMG they do exist....

people that actually believe Hollywood crap... and CNN bullSH1t

define they!

really i thought they did. you know i do not understand why 5 of ten jews hate themselves. if we could convert the chinese it would be okay.
u r still a bitch

Hey Noob. Shut yer hole.

Hey Noob. Shut yer hole.

Well called there.

You forget, everybody who disagrees with TS is an anti-semite at some level whether they themselves know it or not. One night I might wake up, standing on a podium in a funny uniform with large, brutish looking shaven headed men with their hands in the air, shouting things like "Heil" at me, and have no idea how I got there.

"Ahhh", you say, "but I'm Jewish". "You just are a self hating Jew" sez TS. Theres no way out.This thread is so full of shit, it's hard to believe.

No, not all Israel critics are anti-Semites. No, Skinheads aren't neo-Nazis or racists. Yes, TS may have a tendency to assume the worst, but if you read through the various Israel/Jew related threads, it's damn hard to blame him for jumping to conclusions.

Hell, some of the least bullshit I've seen lately, was a complete nutter who wished destruction on Israel, because Israel is... Apparently.. A Judaeic Theocracy.

Nope. No anti-Semitism floating about here. None at all.

--Express Suıko (srry If I spelt that wrong)

Wow.. are you kıddıng me? Please tell me that by sayıng that we [Amerıcans] are not Muslım you ımply that we are a natıon of many relıgıons and, at least ın prıncıple, do not support any one relıgıon as accordıng to separatıon between church an state. I hope you dıdnt mean that there ısnt a relevant amount of Muslım people ın thıs country because, trust me, there are mıllıons upon mıllıons of Muslım people ın Amerıca and ıt ıs the fastest growıng relıgıon ın the US & the world too ıf I remember correctly.


The USA is secular non-islamic state. It will and should remain that way.

Hey Noob. Shut yer hole.



:rolleyes:


FYI, you are only a month older than him.

This thread is so full of shit, it's hard to believe.

No, not all Israel critics are anti-Semites. No, Skinheads aren't neo-Nazis or racists. Yes, TS may have a tendency to assume the worst, but if you read through the various Israel/Jew related threads, it's damn hard to blame him for jumping to conclusions.

Hell, some of the least bullshit I've seen lately, was a complete nutter who wished destruction on Israel, because Israel is... Apparently.. A Judaeic Theocracy.

Nope. No anti-Semitism floating about here. None at all.

I never said there wasn't anti-semitism, I was merely remarking that he sees it/them everywhere. Every fucking where. Theres only so much you can excuse him for. Particularily when its an accusation thats used in place of a rational argument.

a really democratic thing egypt has, you call that a democracy come on.
It's how democracy works...
the mullah= crazy man
Mehiran=hell
Not really...
not only that they are holding a big amount of jews hostage.
And the US is holding a lot of Muslims hostage...
also all those parties are islamofacist.
Both of the significant US parties are Christoconservative. What's your point?
hezbollah is not a side it is terrorist orginazation.
That's like saying that Sinn Fein are a terrorist organisation.
dude if you like these guys so much why not just start living there, see how u like it.
*sighs*

Just because they're kind of democratic doesn't mean I actually want to live there.

Oh also you forgot Afghanistan, which supposedly has an elected government. See?

The Middle East is rife with democracy!

What gets me is that people keep commenting on, "Well, we only displaced 2,000 families, and they were nomads, so they don't count"? What right did they have to displace ANY families, period? That's what I want to know...

Even if they moved around, they LIVED in that area, and were forced out of it... and it wasn't long before more than just 2,000 families were removed. Even then, it leaves at least 2,000 families, that would have kids and grandchildren of their own, angry at being booted out of the area they lived on for generations... and thus, the grievances start to build...

:rolleyes:


FYI, you are only a month older than him.

Witty! Witty! Dare I say, Witty?

LOL:p

that is SO naive, the entire reply... is nothing but rediculous, you cant claim a land that people from your same religion lived 3000 years ago, that would cause chaos, you are claiming a land because it was the founding of your religion, would that mean that Chinese should claim India since it was the mother of Buddhism?? NO, indians have abandoned Buddhism and adopted Hinduism, what i want to say is, People dont realize that 3000 years ago, Jews living in Canaan are the palestinians that are living today, but throught history they adopted christianity then Islam, so this is nothing but a big fraud..........

and you say there's enaugh Islamic nations, FINE claim Germany and make them refugees in Europe, since there are enaugh christian nations in the world... thats just redicoulus...

first thing there were at least fifty jews in the land of israel for the last 3000 years. christanity was a jewish cult and was dismissed as the rabbis as such. and my great friend the prophet tried to convert the jews but was not really succesful.

It's how democracy works...

Meh
Not really...

And the US is holding a lot of Muslims hostage...

Both of the significant US parties are Christoconservative. What's your point?

That's like saying that Sinn Fein are a terrorist organisation.

*sighs*

Just because they're kind of democratic doesn't mean I actually want to live
there.

Oh also you forgot Afghanistan, which supposedly has an elected government. See?

The Middle East is rife with democracy!

ty for providing a good argument
first thing how is the us holding moslems hostage. can moslems leave the us without saying that the us gets thier land. is their a bill which says that the moslems should wear badges of crescents or special hats going in the senate. afhgahnistan is part of asia, as you said it they are "kind of democratic" impiying that they are not. does the sinn fien go around shooting missles at britan? do they kidnap british solidiers? do attack british soldiers? if they do they r an terrorist organization.

i will correct my self Israel is the only real democracy in the middle east.

also if israel likes to attack people why not nuke syria or iran we got the nukes.

you call the left christoconservitive??????

that is SO naive, the entire reply... is nothing but rediculous, you cant claim a land that people from your same religion lived 3000 years ago, that would cause chaos, you are claiming a land because it was the founding of your religion, would that mean that Chinese should claim India since it was the mother of Buddhism?? NO, indians have abandoned Buddhism and adopted Hinduism, what i want to say is, People dont realize that 3000 years ago, Jews living in Canaan are the palestinians that are living today, but throught history they adopted christianity then Islam, so this is nothing but a big fraud..........

and you say there's enaugh Islamic nations, FINE claim Germany and make them refugees in Europe, since there are enaugh christian nations in the world... thats just redicoulus...

you have a really stupid and crappy point on india being chinese. A. the chinese government is secular and not attached to a religon. B. how does the fact that a bunch of chinese are buddhist have anything to do with it they are chinese. and according to your logic why don't all the moslems live in saudia arabia, it was the founding place of islam?

What gets me is that people keep commenting on, "Well, we only displaced 2,000 families, and they were nomads, so they don't count"? What right did they have to displace ANY families, period? That's what I want to know...

Even if they moved around, they LIVED in that area, and were forced out of it... and it wasn't long before more than just 2,000 families were removed. Even then, it leaves at least 2,000 families, that would have kids and grandchildren of their own, angry at being booted out of the area they lived on for generations... and thus, the grievances start to build...

i want facts not staments when and where were they forced out of their homes, also if you love refugees so much why not start talking about the half a million jews who were forced to leave with nothing on thier backs from arab states

"Jews living in Canaan are the palestinians that are living today"

wrong the jews living in cannan either were exiled, converted forcefully (islam)or not to (christanity)or remainded jews. the palestians are descended from the roaming arab tribes and such.