NationStates Jolt Archive

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. told of plans to file lawsuits against the manufacturers of electronic voting machines:

PRWeek: Is there a next step?
Kennedy: I've been meeting with attorneys... to devise a litigation strategy. And I would say that very soon we'll be announcing lawsuits against some of the individuals and companies involved.

PRWeek: Who exactly would that litigation be targeting?
Kennedy: I wouldn't say, right now.

PRWeek: The election is over. Is it too late now?
Kennedy: There's another election soon. And as the Times [just] reported, the same people are up to the same shenanigans.
http://www.prweek.com/us/news/open/free/blogs/564483

You can see his article in Rolling Stone here: http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen

Do you think it's justified?

No opinion on electronic voting?

In Oklahoma, we are given a large heavy paper ballot and a pen that is a wide permanent black ink pen. To the right of the candidates name or the issue to be voted on is a thick black line, a blank and a thick black line. Like this ___ ___ If it is an issue, there are two lines one says FOR and the other says AGAINST. The voter then uses the pen to make a thick black line that connects the two other lines.

The ballot is then inserted into the machine either face up or face down. Doesn't matter which way as the machine will read it both ways. The voter then waits for the ballot to be accepted or immediately rejected.

The system is as nearly perfect as you can get. No hanging chads, no "miss-marked ballots" as stray marks or voting for more than one person for the same office will immediately reject the ballot so the voter can correct his/her error. No complicated high tech electronic voting machine that doesn't leave a paper trail in case a recount is necessary.

The system is so good; the results of the election are posted at each precinct within 30 to 45 minutes after the close of the poll.

In Oklahoma, we are given a large heavy paper ballot and a pen that is a wide permanent black ink pen. To the right of the candidates name or the issue to be voted on is a thick black line, a blank and a thick black line. Like this ___ ___ If it is an issue, there are two lines one says FOR and the other says AGAINST. The voter then uses the pen to make a thick black line that connects the two other lines.

The ballot is then inserted into the machine either face up or face down. Doesn't matter which way as the machine will read it both ways. The voter then waits for the ballot to be accepted or immediately rejected.

The system is as nearly perfect as you can get. No hanging chads, no "miss-marked ballots" as stray marks or voting for more than one person for the same office will immediately reject the ballot so the voter can correct his/her error. No complicated high tech electronic voting machine that doesn't leave a paper trail in case a recount is necessary.

The system is so good; the results of the election are posted at each precinct within 30 to 45 minutes after the close of the poll.
Old school is definitely the way to go.

Old school is definitely the way to go.

At least for us old farts who know how to use a black pen to connect two black lines. :D

At least for us old farts who know how to use a black pen to connect two black lines. :D
I just made the last generation that still uses pens.

Study shows US electronic voting machines vulnerable
Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:02am ET
By Thomas Ferraro

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The nation's three most commonly purchased electronic voting machines are all vulnerable to fraud, a study released on Tuesday found.

The study also concluded, however, that steps could be taken to reduce the chances of hackers breaking into these systems and undermining the integrity of state and national elections.

"These machines are vulnerable to attack. That's the bad news," said Michael Waldman, executive director of the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University Law School.


"The good news is that we know how to reduce the risks and the solutions are within reach," Waldman said.

The Brennan Center Task Force on Voting System Security, an initiative of the Brennan Center, conducted the study, which it called the most comprehensive study of electronic voting machines to date.

Larry Norden, chairman of the task force of government and private scientists, voting machine experts and security officials said about 80 percent of voters will vote on one of these electronic systems in November mid-term elections.

Norden said he hopes the study will prompt states and Congress to begin mandating that security measures recommended by the task force be part of the protocol for every county in the United States.

Rep. Rush Holt, a New Jersey Democrat who has introduced legislation to upgrade security for electronic voting machines, arranged to attend a news conference on Capitol Hill on Tuesday where the report was to be released.

Holt's bill has 192 cosponsors, most of them fellow Democrats, an aide said. He introduced the bill last year and it remained unclear whether Congress would enact it into law.

The measure would require all voting machines to produce a paper record voters could inspect to check the accuracy of their votes and election officials could use to verify votes in the event of a computer malfunction or other irregularity.

"Anything of value should be auditable," said Holt.

"Votes are valuable, and each voter should have the knowledge and the confidence that his or her vote was recorded and counted as intended."
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyID=2006-06-27T130232Z_01_N26181575_RTRUKOC_0_US-VOTINGMACHINES.xml&pageNumber=1&imageid=&cap=&sz=13&WTModLoc=NewsArt-C1-ArticlePage1


What a great idea these machines were!

Robert Kennedy?





I think its impossible to file a lawsuit when...




you are dead.


Robert Kennedy is the greatest American president that never was btw.

EDIT: Wait a minute... how many RFK are there?

At least for us old farts who know how to use a black pen to connect two black lines. :D

I bet the new generation of pens will probably be designed for the nibs to fall off when you try to mark the 'wrong' party. Or they'll load it with fading ink :p

Robert Kennedy?





I think its impossible to file a lawsuit when...




you are dead.


Robert Kennedy is the greatest American president that never was btw.

EDIT: Wait a minute... how many RFK are there?


IIRC, the one filing the suit is RFK Jr.

Robert Kennedy?





I think its impossible to file a lawsuit when...




you are dead.


Robert Kennedy is the greatest American president that never was btw.

EDIT: Wait a minute... how many RFK are there?
Yeah, I meant JR... just trying to save space on the title. Though it would be pretty attention getting if it was Sr.

"The good news is that we know how to reduce the risks and the solutions are within reach," Waldman said


So whats the problem ? Too many fucking lawyers ?

So whats the problem ? Too many fucking lawyers ?
Some people like the way things are broke.

Item #1 - It's a computer that runs on software. This means that of fucking course it's vulnerable to fraud.

Item #2 - How about we get rid of the electronic voting machines but at the same time put a simple nationwide ID requirement for voting in all elections. How much do you want to bet that if were to be advanced that RFK jr. would politely but emphatically decline while Pelosi stood off in the corner and screamed bloody murder?

Item #1 - It's a computer that runs on software. This means that of fucking course it's vulnerable to fraud.

Item #2 - How about we get rid of the electronic voting machines but at the same time put a simple nationwide ID requirement for voting in all elections. How much do you want to bet that if were to be advanced that RFK jr. would politely but emphatically decline while Pelosi stood off in the corner and screamed bloddy murder?
Item #1: Yes, that is what is being discussed.
Item #2: No, that is not what is being discussed.

Suing the manufacturers seems a little... misdirected, but I certainly believe there has been election fraud in both of the previous elections. Al Gore should have been re-elected in 2004, if the counting was fair and honest. I don't know what liability the manufacturers really have, but anything to clean up for 2008, I guess. Everyone should just go back to paper ballots. Here in Oregon, they mail you your ballot, you fill in little bubbles like on standardized tests, and then you drop it off at whichever is convenient to you of a number of drop-boxes.

Suing the manufacturers seems a little... misdirected, but I certainly believe there has been election fraud in both of the previous elections. Al Gore should have been re-elected in 2004, if the counting was fair and honest. I don't know what liability the manufacturers really have, but anything to clean up for 2008, I guess. Everyone should just go back to paper ballots. Here in Oregon, they mail you your ballot, you fill in little bubbles like on standardized tests, and then you drop it off at whichever is convenient to you of a number of drop-boxes.
Have you seen the internal emails of the Diebold company? This is the first site I could find with them. I'm sure there are less leftist sites out there that would also carry the information:
http://why-war.com/features/2003/10/diebold.html

Last bump. I promise. But I'm disappointed in all of you.

I am one to believe that the the lack of paper trail was very intentional. I think diebold voting machines elected Bush.

The main problem with the US political system is not the voting machines but the fact that you have to register to vote! This prevents the true meaning of democracy as if you are prevented from registering for some reason beyond your control, you can't vote.

In Europe you are automatically registered to vote through the local councils as you have to pay local taxes which means that there is a record of who lives where and who is or is not entitled to vote by age. (Remember that in the UK, so long as you are not the monarch, mad or IN prison (and not a former prisoner), you are entitled to vote.) If your name is not on the voters rolls you can prodce proof of residency (drivers licence, bills etc) to the council and you will be registered to vote.