NationStates Jolt Archive

Umm...uhhh...DAMN! They are serious about getting their man back. This calls for an EEK :eek: !

Israel warns: free soldier or PM dies
Middle East correspondent Martin Chulov
July 01, 2006
ISRAEL last night threatened to assassinate Palestinian Prime Minister Ismael Haniyeh if Hamas militants did not release a captured Israeli soldier unharmed.
The unprecedented warning was delivered to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in a letter as Israel debated a deal offered by Hamas to free Corporal Gilad Shalit.

It came as Israeli military officials readied a second invasion force for a huge offensive into Gaza.

Hamas's Gaza-based political leaders, including Mr Haniyeh, had already gone into hiding.

But last night's direct threat to kill Mr Haniyeh, a democratically elected head of state, sharply raised the stakes.

The bid to free Corporal Shalit was brokered by Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, who last night warned Hamas it faced severe consequences if it did not curb its "extreme stance" and described the growing conflict as a lightning rod for Palestinian vengeance.

Jerusalem has made no official comment, but Egyptian state media said Israel had found the offer unacceptable. Israel has not spelt out the terms demanded by Hamas, but earlier this week it refused to buy into talk of a prisoner swap.

Thousands of Hamas supporters protested in Gaza City late on Thursday over the arrest by Israeli forces of up to 32 Hamas MPs on the West Bank that day.

A Hamas spokesman said the group would never recognise Israel, in spite of a deal its leaders signed this week offering implicit recognition of the Jewish state in return for easing an economic blockade.

Israeli fighter jets bombed 20 targets in Gaza, including the Interior Ministry, which it said had been used by militants to stage meetings, while artillery hit the northern strip with 500 shells in the 24 hours until yesterday morning.

Jewish settler Eliyahu Asheri, who was murdered by militants this week, was buried on Thursday as leaders of the Popular Resistance Committees pledged to seize more hostages in the West Bank. No further word has emerged about another suspected Jewish hostage, Noach Moskowitz, who Israeli police said was found dead hours after Mr Asheri's remains were found.

Much of Gaza, including two main hospitals, was without power and running water as a UN aid chief warned that the 1.4 million residents of the strip were three days away from a humanitarian crisis.

"They are heading for the abyss unless they get electricity and fuel restored," said emergency relief co-ordinator Jan Egeland, who urged militants to free Corporal Shalit and stop firing rockets into Israel.

Residents complain that sonic booms caused by Israeli jets traumatise children and that shelling confines families to their homes.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has vowed the military will do all it can to avoid civilian deaths if a full-scale assault is launched.

Mr Olmert said the decision to invade northern Gaza had already been delayed to allow Mr Mubarak's negotiations to continue.

The arrested Hamas legislators have been sent to security prisons and many will stand trial on terrorism offences. The detentions have hurt Hamas's already limited ability to govern and are likely to force a regime change.

Israel claims it has intelligence about the area where Corporal Shalit is held, but has been unable to pinpoint the exact location. Mr Olmert said the military would leave the strip if he was unconditionally and safely returned.

Egypt and the neighbouring Arab states of Jordan and Lebanon fear a war between Israel and the Palestinians could lead to uprisings within their own borders, which house many Palestinian refugees.

*Scribbles furiously*
*Takes notes*

Holy shit, we spend so much trying to build democracy in the middle east, and now Isreal is going around threatening to kill the elected officials.

Seriously, at this point if I was a Palestinian I'd be reaching for my implements of torture.

-snip-
Good article and such and goddamn...

...Off topic, but what the hell kinda statement is your sig trying to make anyway (the last line)?

Umm...uhhh...DAMN! They are serious about getting their man back. This calls for an EEK :eek: !
The Israelis are hardcore. GO ISRAEL!

O Alleluhia!
Thanks Israel..

Thanks to show the way the radical should have to free Gantanashit prisoners...
Free the war prisoner or we go war crime!

No one could judge us!
A martyr country cant be a torturer...

When Iran is going to have that fuk* nuke by the way?

shurrup with your stupid questions, thanks

Seriously, at this point if I was a Palestinian I'd be reaching for my implements of torture.

Walk outside and say HI to the Israeli predator drones overhead!

I bet the PM is nervous. Very nervous.

Good article and such and goddamn...

...Off topic, but what the hell kinda statement is your sig trying to make anyway (the last line)?

The Islam vs Christianity debate summed up in 2 lines. I posted it and someone said it was very well said and true, so I made it part of my sigline.

:D


And I thought this was getting boring!

The Islam vs Christianity debate summed up in 2 lines. I posted it and someone said it was very well said and true, so I made it part of my sigline.
It's comforting to know that you think that a debate over religions can be summed up in two lines, and that religions can be summed up so simplisticaly. I don't want to go off-topic...but it just that you really peeved me.

Walk outside and say HI to the Israeli predator drones overhead!

I bet the PM is nervous. Very nervous.And yet, if various newspapers are to be believed, the biggest effect this have had, is to increase the support for Hamas.

But alright. Subtle is overrated. If you have a cannon, why settle for shooting yourself in the foot with a toy pistol.

DM, the threat of of military might have always been there. There's a reason it's called the occupied territories. But when people have lived under that threat their whole lives, nothing will bring out the pent up rage like making good on that threat.

:D


And I thought this was getting boring!
Things may get quiet for a little while, but if anyone knows how to create some major tension, it's those Israelis and Palestinians.

Allah demands you send your son for him. God demanded his son to die for you.

In Soviet Russia, Your son demand that Allah die for YOU!

well, i hope the israelis take back the strip, but assasinating a PM :sniper: might just be a little bit harsh. if it actually happened i wouldnt complain though.

If I was Palestinian, it's likely I would be planning some sort of attack in the near future. Perhaps a video of Azmi Bishara being found would make things equal.

In Soviet Russia, Your son demand that Allah die for YOU!

I don't have a son. Yet.

:D


And I thought this was getting boring!


Yep. Things are sort of like shooting fish in a barrel....literally

I am guaranteed to spice, spam, flame, or troll things up.

Guaranteed

Of course, this kind of overlooks one little variable.

Whether or not the kidnappers care if the Prime Minister dies, or if they even want Israel to kill him aka the Ruthless People scenario.

Doesn't international law state that it's illegal to assassinate the leader of another nation?

In Soviet Russia, Your son demand that Allah die for YOU!I thought people stopped doing that back in the early 80's?

Incidently, doesn't the Bible also command that one gives one's first born son to God?

I don't have a son. Yet.

Considering how you helped create the mess that was your sister, I don't think you could qualify to be a parent. Unless you significantly change your worldviews, any offspring you have are likely to become the same way your sister did.

Or murder you in your sleep.

Doesn't international law state that it's illegal to assassinate the leader of another nation?

I don't think the Israeli's care. Although I do have to wonder if this blather is just really the animosity of the higher ups towards Hamas and the kidnapping was an excuse to get away with acting on it.

Return our soldier or we kill the leader of your country? Israel has done some extreme stuff before, but this takes the cake. Of course they don't even know if it really is Hamas who holds the soldier or some other group.

Of course they don't even know if it really is Hamas who holds the soldier or some other group.

I’m usually pretty sympathetic but those Israelis have lost the plot.

I suggest a much simpler strategy would be to kidnap a hamas member and immediately offer a prisoner exchange.

Hamas should make a point of ignoring the threats.

Mail Olmert a toe.

Doesn't international law state that it's illegal to assassinate the leader of another nation?
If they haven't agreed to that law they are not bound by it.

If they haven't agreed to that law they are not bound by it.

That's right and what do these terrorists know about the law anyway.

The rest of the world needs to step in to enforce international law.

I don't see how it is wrong to assassinate a terrorist. Democratically elected or not. He is still a terrorist. Would you say it would have been wrong to kill Hitler because he was democratically elected?

I mean, if Pakistan all of a sudden elected Bin Laden as their PM, could the US not kill him? The Hamas leader was a terrorist a long time before he was elected. I don't believe Israel or the US have ever recognized him as the lawful leader, and have never negotiated with him as the leader of Palestine. Instead, they negotiate with the Fatah.

Israel ahs full right and authority to defend itself from terrorists, and if that means to threaten or kill the leader of a terrorist group, then they may do that. No UN ruling, no election, no country can protect that terrorist from Israel if it wants to kill him.

In that case I should be allowed to shoot George Bush, or indeed Olmert.

Israel ahs full right and authority to defend itself from terrorists, and if that means to threaten or kill the leader of a terrorist group, then they may do that. No UN ruling, no election, no country can protect that terrorist from Israel if it wants to kill him.And by the same standard, Palestinians are well within their rights to defend themselves from Israel & assasinate Israelis... Or does this bullshit of yours only work one way?

Who is your president, by the way? - It's beyond bloody unlikely that your president isn't directly or indirectly involved in carrying our or sponsoring terrorist acts on one population or other. Does that mean Mr. Random next door should but a bullet in your president's head?

And by the same standard, Palestinians are well within their rights to defend themselves from Israel & assasinate Israelis...



Is that not how they got the prisoner in question in the first place?

Well, Hamas is not your normal political party. And they've used their new position for nothing but bad things. I don't really see why Israel has to respect Hamas' political position, when they don't even respect it themselves.

And by the same standard, Palestinians are well within their rights to defend themselves from Israel & assasinate Israelis... Or does this bullshit of yours only work one way?
Ahem...you'll note that they don't defend themselves, or assassinate selected Israelis.

They fire unguided missiles at houses of innocent people. In the middle of peace talks being held. Try as I might, I don't see anything approaching equivalence.

I don't see how it is wrong to assassinate a terrorist. Democratically elected or not. He is still a terrorist. Would you say it would have been wrong to kill Hitler because he was democratically elected?

I mean, if Pakistan all of a sudden elected Bin Laden as their PM, could the US not kill him? The Hamas leader was a terrorist a long time before he was elected. I don't believe Israel or the US have ever recognized him as the lawful leader, and have never negotiated with him as the leader of Palestine. Instead, they negotiate with the Fatah.

Israel ahs full right and authority to defend itself from terrorists, and if that means to threaten or kill the leader of a terrorist group, then they may do that. No UN ruling, no election, no country can protect that terrorist from Israel if it wants to kill him.

That's absolutely right! I am personally glad that the Israeli government is decisive here. I wish we could be more resolute in Iraq and send more troops in to nuke those suicidal civilians.

Wow.

Israel really doesn't get to play the persecution card anymore.

"Release our soldier or we kill the leader of a country who may or may not be related to the kidnapping"

That's absolutely right! I am personally glad that the Israeli government is decisive here. I wish we could be more resolute in Iraq and send more troops in to nuke those suicidal civilians.
:fluffle:

Wow.

Israel really doesn't get to play the persecution card anymore.

"Release our soldier or we kill the leader of a country who may or may not be related to the kidnapping"
I think the whole "Surrounded by people who want to kill you" thing trumps this. ;)

Ahem...you'll note that they don't defend themselves, or assassinate selected Israelis.

They fire unguided missiles at houses of innocent people. In the middle of peace talks being held. Try as I might, I don't see anything approaching equivalence.

Give palestine the planes, the artillery, the guns, the training, etc. Lets see if they are still randomly firing unguided missiles at houses(a bit of a contradiction, you cant really fire something unguided at as small a target as a house).

When palestine gets a more equivilent force, they will start using equivilent tactics. You can hardly expect them to fight fair when the situation isn't, regardless of who you side with.

I think the whole "Surrounded by people who want to kill you" thing trumps this. ;)

I think the whole "Only country with nukes in the region" trumps that.

And by the same standard, Palestinians are well within their rights to defend themselves from Israel & assasinate Israelis... Or does this bullshit of yours only work one way?

Who is your president, by the way? - It's beyond bloody unlikely that your president isn't directly or indirectly involved in carrying our or sponsoring terrorist acts on one population or other. Does that mean Mr. Random next door should but a bullet in your president's head?

One, Israelis are not invloved in terrorism. If they were, I would not only say they may be killed, I would expect the Palestinians and the Israeli government to put them on trial. Now, Mr. Random, being either George Bush or Ehud Olmert as I am a citizen of both countries, are not terrorists. But you know what, I call upon the terrorists to try. Because if they kill either one, they are fucked.

And anyway, do answer me about my toher examples. Would it have been ok to kill Hitler if he had not commited suicide? And, if Pakistan elected Bin Laden, would that protect him form the US?

You see, I only applyu the UN ruling to actual leaders of actual countries. Arafat, no, I would not want Israel to kill him, and not the Fatah guy for that matter. I would not want the US or Israel to kill Iran's PM, or the ayatola, or any other leader of any other country like Syria. Hamas is a terrorist organization, nothing more, nothing less. Electing them does not protect them. They are bloody murderers.

And lets say it is the Palestinians right to kidnap that soldier because there is somewhat of a war, well then, it is Israel's right and duty to do anything it can to retrieve him safely, and if that includes killing the enemy, well then, go ahead.

O and the Hamas leader certainly does have to do with this. The Hamas has kidnapped the soldier, and the leader said the Hamas will not release the soldier unless the Israelis release terrorists. Well, I say let the PM piss his pants.

One, Israelis are not invloved in terrorism. If they were, I would not only say they may be killed, I would expect the Palestinians and the Israeli government to put them on trial. Now, Mr. Random, being either George Bush or Ehud Olmert as I am a citizen of both countries, are not terrorists. But you know what, I call upon the terrorists to try. Because if they kill either one, they are fucked.

And anyway, do answer me about my toher examples. Would it have been ok to kill Hitler if he had not commited suicide? And, if Pakistan elected Bin Laden, would that protect him form the US?

You see, I only applyu the UN ruling to actual leaders of actual countries. Arafat, no, I would not want Israel to kill him, and not the Fatah guy for that matter. I would not want the US or Israel to kill Iran's PM, or the ayatola, or any other leader of any other country like Syria. Hamas is a terrorist organization, nothing more, nothing less. Electing them does not protect them. They are bloody murderers.

And lets say it is the Palestinians right to kidnap that soldier because there is somewhat of a war, well then, it is Israel's right and duty to do anything it can to retrieve him safely, and if that includes killing the enemy, well then, go ahead.

O and the Hamas leader certainly does have to do with this. The Hamas has kidnapped the soldier, and the leader said the Hamas will not release the soldier unless the Israelis release terrorists. Well, I say let the PM piss his pants.

If its a war, then palestinian attacks on israel are justified on civilians, capturing troops, etc. Making them not terrorists, just brutal fighters. But if they aren't terrorists, then this makes them a recognized govt... meaning israel can't legally assassinate the pm. But if they are a recognized govt., they cant attack civilians like that...

head explode!

I don't see how it is wrong to assassinate a terrorist. Democratically elected or not. He is still a terrorist. Would you say it would have been wrong to kill Hitler because he was democratically elected?

I mean, if Pakistan all of a sudden elected Bin Laden as their PM, could the US not kill him? The Hamas leader was a terrorist a long time before he was elected. I don't believe Israel or the US have ever recognized him as the lawful leader, and have never negotiated with him as the leader of Palestine. Instead, they negotiate with the Fatah.

Israel ahs full right and authority to defend itself from terrorists, and if that means to threaten or kill the leader of a terrorist group, then they may do that. No UN ruling, no election, no country can protect that terrorist from Israel if it wants to kill him.

Hamas does not recognize Israel as a government. By your logic, they are within their rights to remove him as a leader by any means neccessary.

If its a war, then palestinian attacks on israel are justified on civilians, capturing troops, etc. Making them not terrorists, just brutal fighters. But if they aren't terrorists, then this makes them a recognized govt... meaning israel can't legally assassinate the pm. But if they are a recognized govt., they cant attack civilians like that...

head explode!

First of all its not a war. Second of all, in no war are civillian deaths unless caused by accident, are justifiable. In Vietnam, when soldiers went and killed whole villages, nothing was justifiable. It was wrong. While capturing a troop may not be a terrorist act, it is just fine for Israel to retrieve him. The Hammas is not a recognized government. It is a terrorist group, thus Israel can assassinate any of the Hamas they want to. Do not affiliate yourself with the Hamas if you don't want to be assassinated.

And no one has answered my questions yet about Hitler and Bin Laden.

After they kill the Prime Minister they can bomb the shit out of the territory and then institute slavery for the survivors. A win-win situation for all.

Riiiight...

The Prime Minister is an expendible propaganda figure, just like Al-Zarqawi was. Killing him is what HAMAS wants.

Hamas should make a point of ignoring the threats.

Mail Olmert a toe.
Then they'll mail them back the PMs head. Along with a huge amount of incoming Artillery shells.

I think this might be the end, one or the other will die.

Wow.

Israel really doesn't get to play the persecution card anymore.

"Release our soldier or we kill the leader of a country who may or may not be related to the kidnapping"

Perhaps you haven't heard on what the Israelis did to a group of hjackers who hjacked an Israel passenger plane? Well firstly they were captured by the passengers, secondly when they landed they put the Terrorists in the Front row seat, put some plastic on the seats and the floor, and ON CAMERA.
slit the throat of every single one of them.

Then they'll mail them back the PMs head. Along with a huge amount of incoming Artillery shells.

I think this might be the end, one or the other will die.

LOL, I loved that.

And of course, I agree. I don't know if that guy you quoted knows, but Israel can actually assassinate him. They have done stuff like this many times, its not simply a threat.

Perhaps you haven't heard on what the Israelis did to a group of hjackers who hjacked an Israel passenger plane? Well firstly they were captured by the passengers, secondly when they landed they put the Terrorists in the Front row seat, put some plastic on the seats and the floor, and ON CAMERA.
slit the throat of every single one of them.

If true, I bet a few (like DM) would all go "But they're terrorists, we have the right to act as brutally and animalistic as they do because they did it first"

If true, I bet a few (like DM) would all go "But they're terrorists, we have the right to act as brutally and animalistic as they do because they did it first"

While that is not ok, I don't expect the people to really be nice to them.

That is why, in the US at least, there are cases where people don't go to jail for murder because of their mental condition. A women being raped for example, who kills her rapist, will probably not go to jail if she just found a knife and stabbed him. Its expected of normal people to kind of hate their attackers.

I don't condone theose people's actions, but I would not be too harsh on them.

First of all its not a war. Second of all, in no war are civillian deaths unless caused by accident, are justifiable. In Vietnam, when soldiers went and killed whole villages, nothing was justifiable. It was wrong. While capturing a troop may not be a terrorist act, it is just fine for Israel to retrieve him. The Hammas is not a recognized government. It is a terrorist group, thus Israel can assassinate any of the Hamas they want to. Do not affiliate yourself with the Hamas if you don't want to be assassinated.

And no one has answered my questions yet about Hitler and Bin Laden.

Fine. In ww2, it would have been fine for an ally to assassinate hitler. It would have been just as fine to assassinate roosevelt, hirohito, truman, mussolini, stalin... the list goes on.

Only since ww2 have attacks against civilians not been okay, and thats mostly only for larger countries. I don't think the rules of war changed in 66 years... some countries just have basic standards they agree to.

Palestine doesn't recognize israel; ergo, it can kill who it wants, who are part of israel?

Fine. In ww2, it would have been fine for an ally to assassinate hitler. It would have been just as fine to assassinate roosevelt, hirohito, truman, mussolini, stalin... the list goes on.

Only since ww2 have attacks against civilians not been okay, and thats mostly only for larger countries. I don't think the rules of war changed in 66 years... some countries just have basic standards they agree to.

Palestine doesn't recognize israel; ergo, it can kill who it wants, who are part of israel?

No, because Israel is not a terrorist organization. The Hamas is.

And yet I say again, let the terrorists try and kill Olmert. They won't even try because then, they are dead. I mena look at what Israel is doing for this one soldier. Now imagine the PM. HAHAHAHA.

Anyway, you still ahven't answered my question about Bin Laden. This situation is much more similar to our present situation.

Doesn't international law state that it's illegal to assassinate the leader of another nation?

Ha...O the law thing doesn't matter. Thats for little people. Once you're in with the yanks you don't have to worry about that too much.