NationStates Jolt Archive

Or, more specifically, I'm fed up with computer programmes insisting that American English is the only variant of the language.

Why is it that I can install software in various versions of Chinese, French or Spanish, but the extra effort of putting a 'u' in here and there is too much for computer programmers?

Or, more specifically, I'm fed up with computer programmes insisting that American English is the only variant of the language.

Why is it that I can install software in various versions of Chinese, French or Spanish, but the extra effort of putting a 'u' in here and there is too much for computer programmers?

NLS support costs money to implement. However, if you set your machine to UK (if it's Windows) you may see a difference. It certainly makes a difference in a lot of programs I use.

Had to switch back and forth this year.

Or, more specifically, I'm fed up with computer programmes insisting that American English is the only variant of the language.

Why is it that I can install software in various versions of Chinese, French or Spanish, but the extra effort of putting a 'u' in here and there is too much for computer programmers?

Wheres your sense of humor?

That sort of thing is easy pickings for any project manager wishing to save time and/or money - reducing budgeted man-hours without compromising functionality.

Wheres your sense of humor?
It got lost when iTunes just made me download about the fifth 35mb new version this year, and presented me with the language options.

So while we're at it, why can't Mac just release patches?

Wheres your sense of humor?
Where's your apostrophe? And the goddamn 'u'?:p

Or, more specifically, I'm fed up with computer programmes insisting that American English is the only variant of the language.

It is a well-known fact that adding the letter "u" to words like "colour" will instantaneously transform a red-blooded American into a cheese-eating surrender monkey. This is why real Americans are careful to use only the most butchered forms of English spelling. "Color" is even a bit risky...a real American should go with "culler," just to be on the safe side.

In Soviet Russia, American English is fed up with you!

It is a well-known fact that adding the letter "u" to words like "colour" will instantaneously transform a red-blooded American into a cheese-eating surrender monkey. This is why real Americans are careful to use only the most butchered forms of English spelling. "Color" is even a bit risky...a real American should go with "culler," just to be on the safe side.
Cullers are purdy.

It is a well-known fact that adding the letter "u" to words like "colour" will instantaneously transform a red-blooded American into a cheese-eating surrender monkey. This is why real Americans are careful to use only the most butchered forms of English spelling. "Color" is even a bit risky...a real American should go with "culler," just to be on the safe side.

One who culls?

Why is it that English Brits insist upon adding another vowel to so many words? Not just the vowel "u" eother. It is "aluminum" not "aluminium" ta.
Is this some sort of ancient war of bitterness you people have with the poor Welsh who barely even have vowels?

Why is it that English Brits insist upon adding another vowel to so many words?
Or, to put the question in its more accurate form, why is it that Americans insist on removing vowels from so many words?

One who culls?

Why is it that English Brits insist upon adding another vowel to so many words? Not just the vowel "u" eother. It is "aluminum" not "aluminium" ta.
Is this some sort of ancient war of bitterness you people have with the poor Welsh who barely even have vowels?
See, I can understand taking the letter u out sometimes, because the pronunciation doesn't get changed. But taking the 'i' out of aluminium does change the pronunciation, so why do it? I mean, the Americans called it aluminium until towards the end of the nineteenth century, but then randomly decided to change...

It's aluminium!

hey, its our language. its English. if you guys sotn want to use it properly then dont use it at all.

hey, its our language. its English. if you guys sotn want to use it properly then dont use it at all.
Oh, the irony. :p

I'm fed up with English. So I changed my locales.

Tada.

Oh, the irony. :p

how so?

how so?
There's something inherently amusing about someone trying to defend proper use of English while producing so many spelling mistakes and grammatical errors. :p

Or, more specifically, I'm fed up with computer programmes insisting that American English is the only variant of the language.

Why is it that I can install software in various versions of Chinese, French or Spanish, but the extra effort of putting a 'u' in here and there is too much for computer programmers?

I won't defend my language, but I will defend my profession. Language support is dynamic, as a programmer I tell my applications $string_language_farbe instead of saying colour/color. The issue is then with the products people, if they don't build the spellchecker and language files for my program there isnt much I can do.

only one. and thats becuase i type too fast :P

Or, to put the question in its more accurate form, why is it that Americans insist on removing vowels from so many words?

Only redundant ones. And ones like the i in your aluminium that should never have been put there in the first place.

See, I can understand taking the letter u out sometimes, because the pronunciation doesn't get changed. But taking the 'i' out of aluminium does change the pronunciation, so why do it? I mean, the Americans called it aluminium until towards the end of the nineteenth century, but then randomly decided to change...

It was aluminum before it was aluminium. Before that it was alumium.

No one's adding vowels to the words. Those vowels contain historical etymological information, and you Americans are the ones who removed them.

I blame Noah Webster. Git.

Whatever your language or dialect, I think we can all agree on one thing: certain word processing programs' *cough*Microsoft Word*cough* automatic spelling/grammar checkers are really, really, blitheringly, monumentally stupid. :p

(I taught a communiversity-style poetry seminar a few years back, which involved making printouts of a lot of famous poems - which involved typing said famous poems into Word. If you ever want to go stark raving mad, try spending a few hours figuring out how to make MS Word stop "correcting" e. e. cummings. Argh.)

American English should be considered a mental disability.

hey, its our language. its English. if you guys sotn want to use it properly then dont use it at all.

Hey, it's our language. It's English. If you guys don't want to use it properly, then don't use it at all.

So... You were saying?

(Yes, yes, it was mentioned earlier how ironic it was.)

Hey, it's our language. It's English. If you guys don't want to use it properly, then don't use it at all.

So... You were saying?

(Yes, yes, it was mentioned earlier how ironic it was.)

Send all your software back for a full refund.

American English should be considered a mental disability.

Second only to trolling

Send all your software back for a full refund.

Nah, I'll just hack into my own software and change it.

If I can figure out how. Until the, not being a native speaker, I'll do with either american or british english (favouring british).

Second only to trolling

And hypocrisy.

I do find a great deal to object to, both in terms of the stresses of American pronunciation and accentation, and its spelling and unrecognised vocabulary.

To quote my old, and favourite, English tutor; "American is an abhorrent perversion of the language of Wilde, Hardy and Dickens"

... programmes ...
Uh ... don't you mean an extra "m" AND a "u?" :D

I do find a great deal to object to, both in terms of the stresses of American pronunciation and accentation, and its spelling and unrecognised vocabulary.

To quote my old, and favourite, English tutor; "American is an abhorrent perversion of the language of Wilde, Hardy and Dickens"

Two great countries seperated by a single language

Uh ... don't you mean an extra "m" AND a "u?" :D


and an "e"

One who culls?

Why is it that English Brits insist upon adding another vowel to so many words? Not just the vowel "u" eother. It is "aluminum" not "aluminium" ta.
Is this some sort of ancient war of bitterness you people have with the poor Welsh who barely even have vowels?

It's aluminium. I speak American English but we don't use such lazy truncations with other elements. It's Radium, not Raddum. Uranium, not Urnum. It's Einstinium, not Einsteinum. We only say Aluminum because it came into common usage before knowledge of elements did.

Uh ... don't you mean an extra "m" AND a "u?" :D
Programmmues...prougmrammes...prumogrammes...

hmm... :p

It's aluminium. I speak American English but we don't use such lazy truncations with other elements. It's Radium, not Raddum. Uranium, not Urnum. It's Einstinium, not Einsteinum. We only say Aluminum because it came into common usage before knowledge of elements did.

You are wrong and overly influenced by Davy. Sorry.

Sir Humphry made a bit of a mess of naming this new element, at first spelling it alumium (this was in 1807) then changing it to aluminum, and finally settling on aluminium in 1812. His classically educated scientific colleagues preferred aluminium right from the start, because it had more of a classical ring, and chimed harmoniously with many other elements whose names ended in –ium, like potassium, sodium, and magnesium, all of which had been named by Davy.


http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/aluminium.htm

Yeah ya'll can argue about Modern English.

I'm still pissed the Norman purity of speech was diluted and distorted by those damned Angles and Saxons.

Yeah ya'll can argue about Modern English.

I'm still pissed the Norman purity of speech was diluted and distorted by those damned Angles and Saxons.


Blardy Saxons!

So it should be -ium then as that was the spelling decided by the person who named the thing.

Yeah ya'll can argue about Modern English.

I'm still pissed the Norman purity of speech was diluted and distorted by those damned Angles and Saxons.
Pffft... bloody Normans.

So it should be -ium then as that was the spelling decided by the person who named the thing.

Sure, if he hadnt published aluminum first and screwed it all up. Theres the rub.

Sure, if he hadnt published aluminum first and screwed it all up. Theres the rub.
Well then technically we should be calling it alumium, in which case the -ium would still be correct.

and an "e"
Yeah. I meant an "e." Sorry.

Or, more specifically, I'm fed up with computer programmes insisting that American English is the only variant of the language.

Why is it that I can install software in various versions of Chinese, French or Spanish, but the extra effort of putting a 'u' in here and there is too much for computer programmers?

As far as I'm concerned, it's the only true form of English. Everything else is just cheap imitations. Except British which I am now convinced is a completely different language. Seriously, who calls a muffin a crumpet....and What the hell is a crumpet? A made up word. That's what.

Well then technically we should be calling it alumium, in which case the -ium would still be correct.

And the form you use would still be incorrect by the same logic. Alumium only barely caught on BTW.You wont probably see it again ever.

You are wrong and overly influenced by Davy. Sorry.

Sir Humphry made a bit of a mess of naming this new element, at first spelling it alumium (this was in 1807) then changing it to aluminum, and finally settling on aluminium in 1812. His classically educated scientific colleagues preferred aluminium right from the start, because it had more of a classical ring, and chimed harmoniously with many other elements whose names ended in –ium, like potassium, sodium, and magnesium, all of which had been named by Davy.


http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/aluminium.htm

Davy? From the Christian Claymation show?

The only thing I was influenced by was the periodic table. Naming new elements tends to get them an -ium ending. I was right about that, you said so yourself.

The thing is, there isn't really an American English. I think Roosevelt tried to set up a government bureau whose job it would be to decide what constituted officially correct American English, like the French do with their language. But the idea was rebuffed. So all we really have in America with regards to "correct" English is prissy English teachers. That's why "Bootylicious" and "McJob" made it into the dictionary. The only yardstick that Webster uses to determine "real" words is "how many people are using them.

Seriously, who calls a muffin a crumpet....and What the hell is a crumpet?
A crumpet is not a muffin.

Here is an easy guide for you:

A muffin is a muffin.
A crumpet is a crumpet.

Hope that helps. :)

As far as I'm concerned, it's the only true form of English. Everything else is just cheap imitations. Except British which I am now convinced is a completely different language. Seriously, who calls a muffin a crumpet....and What the hell is a crumpet? A made up word. That's what.
You wouldn't complain about crumpet if you were getting it;)

Yeah ya'll can argue about Modern English.

I'm still pissed the Norman purity of speech was diluted and distorted by those damned Angles and Saxons.

Actually, it was the Normans who invaded. They did it thereselves.

And the form you use would still be incorrect by the same logic. Alumium only barely caught on BTW.You wont probably see it again ever.
But whether I see it again or not isn't the point, the point is the -ium ending is the correct one because it was the first and the eventual one chosen as the name, thusly -ium is correct and -um is just wrong.

A crumpet is not a muffin.

Here is an easy guide for you:

A muffin is a muffin.
A crumpet is a crumpet.

Hope that helps. :)

Actually, when the British word 'Muffin' is used it is being used as the true English's(America's) Biscuits. And then to clear up a step higher, The British word 'Biscuit' is describing the True English's word Cookie. Now who the hell thought that up?

Actually, when the British word 'Muffin' is used it is being used as the true English's(America's) Biscuits. And then to clear up a step higher, The British word 'Biscuit' is describing the True English's word Cookie. Now who the hell thought that up?
You call muffins biscuits? No wonder you're confused...

You meaning Americans in general, not you specifically.

Actually, when the British word 'Muffin' is used it is being used as the true English's(America's) Biscuits. And then to clear up a step higher, The British word 'Biscuit' is describing the True English's word Cookie. Now who the hell thought that up?
Now I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.:)

Here's a visual guide:

Muffin:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e283/Slippery__Jim/muffinson.jpg
Biscuit:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e283/Slippery__Jim/raisin.jpg
Crumpet:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e283/Slippery__Jim/nkindex.jpg

A crumpet is not a muffin.

Here is an easy guide for you:

A muffin is a muffin.
A crumpet is a crumpet.

Hope that helps. :)

I'm under the impression that what the British call a crumpet is roughly what we Americans call an "English muffin." Is this correct?

I'm under the impression that what the British call a crumpet is roughly what we Americans call an "English muffin." Is this correct?
Roughly, yes.

We should make Latin the official language of the US. How kickass would that be.

You call muffins biscuits? No wonder you're confused...

You meaning Americans in general, not you specifically.
:eek: :eek: :eek: :confused: :confused: :( :( :mad: :mad: :gundge:
YOU LIE!! We call biscuits biscuits! Unlike you!

One of the most curious changes from English to American English I can see is the change from the word "Tap" to the word "Faucet". How did that happen?

This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crumpet) is a crumpet (ignoring the slang indicated by the image above. ;) )

It is a well-known fact that adding the letter "u" to words like "colour" will instantaneously transform a red-blooded American into a cheese-eating surrender monkey. This is why real Americans are careful to use only the most butchered forms of English spelling. "Color" is even a bit risky...a real American should go with "culler," just to be on the safe side.

Look up the etymology of the word "color" and you'll find "L. color". French turned it into "colour", which then made its way into Middle English. The American spelling is thus closer to the etymological origin of the word.

There's a reason why Webster got rid of "-our" spellings: they're not needed! Brits, you need to "get with the program" :D

One who culls?

Why is it that English Brits insist upon adding another vowel to so many words? Not just the vowel "u" eother. It is "aluminum" not "aluminium" ta.
Is this some sort of ancient war of bitterness you people have with the poor Welsh who barely even have vowels?

My old chemistry teacher once referred to the word 'aluminum' as "a bastardised Americanism that should have been drowned at birth". I'm inclined to agree, it's not like it's hard to pronounce.

The thing I hate about American English is that it forgets the u in words like colour, favour, and so on.. I also think that standard english is awesome. I mean...Ye Olde Shoppe? Thats hott :p

Or, to put the question in its more accurate form, why is it that Americans insist on removing vowels from so many words?

So that "u" is worth more points in Scrabble. Its really all a conspiracy by Hasbro.

Now I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.:)

Here's a visual guide:

Muffin:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e283/Slippery__Jim/muffinson.jpg
Biscuit:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e283/Slippery__Jim/raisin.jpg
Crumpet:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e283/Slippery__Jim/nkindex.jpg

That so-called 'biscuit' is clearly a cookie. Are you Blind? If that's not a cookie, Then you can call me Rosa Parks.

That so-called 'biscuit' is clearly a cookie. Are you Blind? If that's not a cookie, Then you can call me Rosa Parks.
Hello Rosa. *Waves*

A cookie is a particular type of biscuit.

YOU LIE!! We call biscuits biscuits! Unlike you!
Maybe, but you can't even get chips right. They're called crisps!:D
Crisps
http://www.javajane.co.uk/food/crisps.jpg
Chips
http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2005/02/17/chips2.jpg

I do find a great deal to object to, both in terms of the stresses of American pronunciation and accentation, and its spelling and unrecognised vocabulary.

To quote my old, and favourite, English tutor; "American is an abhorrent perversion of the language of Wilde, Hardy and Dickens"

I find this conceit pointlessly outdated. I mean who even reads Dickens these days? I bet you haven't since school.

And let's face it. England may have started it, but we took it over. There are more Americans than English nowadays, and thats just how the world works. We're more important. :)

I find this conceit pointlessly outdated. I mean who even reads Dickens these days? I bet you haven't since school.

And let's face it. England may have started it, but we took it over. There are more Americans than English nowadays, and thats just how the world works. We're more important. :)

I refuse to dignify that with any ire. I have read Dickens extra-curricularly, amongst other glitterati such as Wilde, Milton, Defoe and Hardy.

Incidentally, an intransigent adherence to grammatical form is neither conceit nor archaic, it is good form.

Bloody heathens, I am now returning to my crumpets.....:p

I wouldn't say took it over. More evolved out of, in the same way many languages evolved out of others (Latin, anybody?). I would be willing to argue that American English is a differant language to English (Even though I'm one of the people whom is frequently annoyed by it)

I find this conceit pointlessly outdated. I mean who even reads Dickens these days? I bet you haven't since school.

And let's face it. England may have started it, but we took it over. There are more Americans than English nowadays, and thats just how the world works. We're more important. :)

Darn Tootin'! Sorry, but that's the way it goes.

One of the most curious changes from English to American English I can see is the change from the word "Tap" to the word "Faucet". How did that happen?

I'm not sure there ever was a change from "tap" to "faucet" per se. A quick glance at the etymology suggests that both words came into being at approximately the same time - the former is derived from Old English by way of Middle English, the latter from Old French by way of Middle English. British English seems eventually to have largely abandoned "faucet," whereas American English came to differentiate between the two words - for example, we refer to a "beer tap," but never a "beer faucet."

I refuse to dignify that with any ire. I have read Dickens extra-curricularly, amongst other glitterati such as Wilde, Milton, Defoe and Hardy.

Incidentally, an intransigent adherence to grammatical form is neither conceit nor archaic, it is good form.

Bloody heathens, I am now returning to my crumpets.....:p
Damn right!:D

I wasn't to fond of Hardy though...

Damn right!:D

I wasn't to fond of Hardy though...

I find it very easy and enjoyable to read, since I like over-elaboration myself.

However, Austen is the anti-christ.

Maybe, but you can't even get chips right. They're called crisps!:D
Crisps
http://www.javajane.co.uk/food/crisps.jpg
Chips
http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2005/02/17/chips2.jpg

Those "'chips'" are clearly French Fries. and the only time ever to use the word Crisp is when a Vegan* is describing lettuce.


I won't even go into 'Vegan' vocabulary as they are a different race who along with the French evolved from Chimpansies. And not created by the one true god which has created all. Except Vegans. And Britts. And all of France.

Hello Rosa. *Waves*

A cookie is a particular type of biscuit.

Well, really, it depends on the location of the cookie/biscuit. As one crosses the precise longitudinal center of the Atlantic ocean going west, all biscuits spontaneously transform themselves into cookies. Likewise, crispy cookies undergo a similar magical metamorphosis into biscuits when traveling eastward. :)

I find it very easy and enjoyable to read, since I like over-elaboration myself.

However, Austen is the anti-christ.
It wasn't difficult to read, just didn't really enjoy his writing. I think having to study Return of the Native probably did him in for me though.

Austen I agree with you about wholeheartedly.

I wouldn't say took it over. More evolved out of, in the same way many languages evolved out of others (Latin, anybody?). I would be willing to argue that American English is a differant language to English (Even though I'm one of the people whom is frequently annoyed by it)


Noooo, merely a different dialect.

However, Austen is the anti-christ.

But Mr. Darcy is teh sexay!

i can hardly spell properly as it is being dyslexic.. you people have way to much time on your hands to complain about this kinda thing...so MS word tells you its spell wrong. so what you know how you want to spell it so spell it that way, just cuz you dont like something doesn't mean the whole world has to conform to the way you think it should be
/end rant]

There's a reason why Webster got rid of "-our" spellings: they're not needed! Brits, you need to "get with the program" :D

Only if you, like Webster, incorrectly assume English to be a phonetic language.

One of the most curious changes from English to American English I can see is the change from the word "Tap" to the word "Faucet". How did that happen?

I find it odd that Americans have abandoned the word "cutlery" and incorrectly labelled everything as "silverware", even when it's made from steel.

It's only silverware when it's silver.

Now I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.:)

Here's a visual guide:

Muffin:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e283/Slippery__Jim/muffinson.jpg

Cup cake, surely?


Muffin:
http://www.whirligig-tv.co.uk/tv/children/muffin/muffin-col.jpg

I find it odd that Americans have abandoned the word "cutlery" and incorrectly labelled everything as "silverware", even when it's made from steel.

It's only silverware when it's silver.
i still uses the word "cutlery" and iam an american

Cup cake, surely?


Muffin:
I can't believe you just past up the opportunity to repost that damned sexy picture of Nicole Kidman... :(

There's a reason why Webster got rid of "-our" spellings: they're not needed! Brits, you need to "get with the program" :D


Not needed? Not needed!?

Very well then, let us simplify our spelling to remove extraneous letters.

u can c that ths maks sens, rite? u dont agry? y not?

I find it odd that Americans have abandoned the word "cutlery" and incorrectly labelled everything as "silverware", even when it's made from steel.

It's only silverware when it's silver.

We haven't actually abandoned "cutlery" - it's not used as frequently as "silverware," but it's still definitely in use. "Silverware" is indeed one of the many, many linguistic oddities in modern English; I've jokingly justified it before by pointing out that at least the vast majority of silverware is silver in color, if not in composition. (Not that this actually helps, since one can buy white plastic "silverware"...)

Or, more specifically, I'm fed up with computer programmes insisting that American English is the only variant of the language.

Why is it that I can install software in various versions of Chinese, French or Spanish, but the extra effort of putting a 'u' in here and there is too much for computer programmers?
Because we make most of your software, that's why. I'm surprised you Brits still stick with your inferior way of spelling. What's the use of the "u" anyway? :rolleyes:

Noooo, merely a different dialect.

*Sigh.* Okay, you arrogant Brits. I have a little thing to say to you. No one else can hear it. Come closer... that's it... Just a bit closer... No, closer... That's it... Now, I just have to tell that:

AMERICAN ENGLISH IS A DIALECT!

Do Spanish-speakers have this same argument too...??? :D

Yeah, how come you never hear the spanish bitch at Mexico, or most of South America, "You don't speak spanish! A few ways of your spelling is different, EVER so slightly, and you use different slang than we do! You should speak Mexican/Argentinan/Peruvian, not Spanish!"

Humerous.

Because we make most of your software, that's why. I'm surprised you Brits still stick with your inferior way of spelling. What's the use of the "u" anyway? :rolleyes:
Because the "u" changes the pronunciation. Think about it, you don't pronounce the word "col-or" you say "col-ur" or "col-er" so the "u" is required in order to add that change of the word. It could be argued, more specifically, that the "o" should be removed as it is the part that is not required.

Because the "u" changes the pronunciation. Think about it, you don't pronounce the word "col-or" you say "col-ur" or "col-er" so the "u" is required in order to add that change of the word. It could be argued, more specifically, that the "o" should be removed as it is the part that is not required.

This is what caused the problem in the first place.

There's no necessary connection between spelling and pronunciation in English. Thinking there is leads to errors.

*Sigh.* Okay, you arrogant Brits. I have a little thing to say to you. No one else can hear it. Come closer... that's it... Just a bit closer... No, closer... That's it... Now, I just have to tell that:

AMERICAN ENGLISH IS A DIALECT!

Do Spanish-speakers have this same argument too...??? :D

Oww, hey, I just said that, why're you telling me?

And yes, there are differences in pronounciation and word-usage in Spanish and Mexican-Spanish. Even within different regions in Spain, as a matter of fact. And, while I don't know it for certain, I wouldn't be surprised to learn the same of French and Canadian-French.

Because the "u" changes the pronunciation. Think about it, you don't pronounce the word "col-or" you say "col-ur" or "col-er" so the "u" is required in order to add that change of the word. It could be argued, more specifically, that the "o" should be removed as it is the part that is not required.

If we're going to get technical, neither O, U, or E intrinsically indicates a schwa. If English followed inflexible pronunciation rules, the American version of the word would be pronounced KOH-lore, and the British KOH-loor (or, more likely given the derivation, ko-LOOR). But English pronunciation is anything but inflexible, so we regularly ignore "rules" on when vowels are long or short and make any old vowel we happen to feel like indicate the schwa sound.

And personally, I think having such a crazy language is fun. :)

This is what caused the problem in the first place.

There's no necessary connection between spelling and pronunciation in English. Thinking there is leads to errors.

Well, no. What caused the problem was Webster and his insistence on distancing America from the 'inferior' British.

If we're going to get technical, neither O, U, or E intrinsically indicates a schwa. If English followed inflexible pronunciation rules, the American version of the word would be pronounced KOH-lore, and the British KOH-loor (or, more likely given the derivation, ko-LOOR). But English pronunciation is anything but inflexible, so we regularly ignore "rules" on when vowels are long or short and make any old vowel we happen to feel like indicate the schwa sound.

And personally, I think having such a crazy language is fun. :)
I agree, how boring would it be if it always followed all the rules precisely. I was just pointing out that the "u" within those words does have intrinsic value as to the pronunciation and it isn't just an unnecessary addition to the words (though as ever in English there are still words that completely ignore that fact).

Oww, hey, I just said that, why're you telling me?

And yes, there are differences in pronounciation and word-usage in Spanish and Mexican-Spanish. Even within different regions in Spain, as a matter of fact. And, while I don't know it for certain, I wouldn't be surprised to learn the same of French and Canadian-French.

Be unsurprised, then. Canadian-French is indeed noticeably different from French-French (which is also different from other varieties of French-French, of course). And I have, in fact, heard European francophones complain about how stupid Quebecois French sounds. People worldwide have silly ideas about how any given language "should" be. :p

Oww, hey, I just said that, why're you telling me?

And yes, there are differences in pronounciation and word-usage in Spanish and Mexican-Spanish. Even within different regions in Spain, as a matter of fact. And, while I don't know it for certain, I wouldn't be surprised to learn the same of French and Canadian-French.

There are significant differences between French and Canadian French. French is regulated by the French government, while Canadian French has evolved freely for about 400 years.

*Crosses one item of his 'supposition' list, and adds it to his 'knowledge' list.*

Well there you go. The point is that language evolves and changes, and we British are hardly innocent (Whose Fscking fault is it that 'Bling bling' ever got anywhere near a dictionary? Hmmmm?). However, this mostly occurs when the users of the language in question are seperated. Given the increase in global communications, it'll be interesting to see whether the language barrier continues to widen or, with the increased prevalence of mixed cultures, the language merges into a single, coherent unit.

Oww, hey, I just said that, why're you telling me?

And yes, there are differences in pronounciation and word-usage in Spanish and Mexican-Spanish. Even within different regions in Spain, as a matter of fact. And, while I don't know it for certain, I wouldn't be surprised to learn the same of French and Canadian-French.

Erm... not sure... :confused:

Heh. Finally found someone who had the exact same opinion as me, though. :p

*Crosses one item of his 'supposition' list, and adds it to his 'knowledge' list.*

Well there you go. The point is that language evolves and changes, and we British are hardly innocent (Whose Fscking fault is it that 'Bling bling' ever got anywhere near a dictionary? Hmmmm?). However, this mostly occurs when the users of the language in question are seperated. Given the increase in global communications, it'll be interesting to see whether the language barrier continues to widen or, with the increased prevalence of mixed cultures, the language merges into a single, coherent unit.
Single perhaps. Coherent a much bigger stretch.

yo, this thread is stoopit. y'all need to go out and find some bootyliscous ho's to get freaky with!

heh. on the original subject: older versions of word are worse. they have an option to use a british dictionary, or sometimes even an australian or New Zealand one... you set it... it keeps right on trying to use american spelling and objecting at you when you don't.

don't even get me started on the gramer checkers, seriously.


what i find weirdest about american english is this: in a lot of cases the spelling has changed to be closer to how the British pronounce the words... and then the Americans pronounce them compleatly differently. what was the point? sure, it's different, but it's just as silly.

the one that annoys me most though has got to be "bouy" kiwi pronounciation: boy. american pronounciation :boo-E. ugh. that drove me nuts when i was whatching the sailing when the America's Cup was held here.

honestly though: you want a dialect that's "different" ... try New Zealand English. hehe. there's this random false vowel we use, apparantly. it has no writen charicter, but results in differences in pronounciation between words that are pronounced identicaly in a lot of other dialects.

also results in words that are pronounced differently in other dialects sounding identical in NZ english. heh.

there are many, many other issues too. writen NZ english is still pretty well identical to writen "proper" british english, except for the adition of Maori nouns.

some of the weirdest froms of english i've ever heard, though, have come out of england it's self. go figure.

*Crosses one item of his 'supposition' list, and adds it to his 'knowledge' list.*

Well there you go. The point is that language evolves and changes, and we British are hardly innocent (Whose Fscking fault is it that 'Bling bling' ever got anywhere near a dictionary? Hmmmm?). However, this mostly occurs when the users of the language in question are seperated. Given the increase in global communications, it'll be interesting to see whether the language barrier continues to widen or, with the increased prevalence of mixed cultures, the language merges into a single, coherent unit.

There is a big differences betwen adding new words to a language, and changing the existing words for no reason.

The English words and spelling worked fine - there was no need for Americans to adapt them. Really, what was wrong with manoeuvre that needed fixing?

Damn, I messed up my ebonics. Um... imagine, if you will, "with" spelled like "wit". Thank you everyone, now go out and get laid.

Honestly languages have changed througout history. Differing dialects have always been around. Really, arguing the matter is pointless. So.. let some air out of your puckered asses and charm some fine lady tonight. ;-)

The spoken and written languages are different things entirely. I frankly don't care how people talk.

I do want them to spell and use punctuation correctly.

There is a big differences betwen adding new words to a language, and changing the existing words for no reason.

The English words and spelling worked fine - there was no need for Americans to adapt them. Really, what was wrong with manoeuvre that needed fixing?

Simply that Noah Webster didn't like it. He considered America superior to Europe, and wanted to alter spellings to enhance the seperation.

There is a big differences betwen adding new words to a language, and changing the existing words for no reason.

The English words and spelling worked fine - there was no need for Americans to adapt them. Really, what was wrong with manoeuvre that needed fixing?

Ah, but you're proceeding from the faulty supposition that modern British English is somehow older than modern American English, or that one of them "came from" the other. Both dialects came from a common parent language - colonial-era British English. Then both separately evolved into the dialects they are today. During that time, both changed approximately equal amounts of existing words for no particular reason other than "languages do that."

Unless, of course, you're saying modern British people go around saying "forsooth" and addressing their friends with "thee" and "thou," in which case I'll be willing to believe that you folks haven't changed existing words for no reason. :p

*GASP!* There's no u in favorite!!! I think I'm gunna die!!!! :eek:

Ah, but you're proceeding from the faulty supposition that modern British English is somehow older than modern American English, or that one of them "came from" the other. Both dialects came from a common parent language - colonial-era British English. Then both separately evolved into the dialects they are today. During that time, both changed approximately equal amounts of existing words for no particular reason other than "languages do that."

Unless, of course, you're saying modern British people go around saying "forsooth" and addressing their friends with "thee" and "thou," in which case I'll be willing to believe that you folks haven't changed existing words for no reason. :p
Don't forget replacing the letter "s" with "f".

You Brits need to at least update to American English...after that, we can work on the letter "c". :) You do have a few good words though...like "bloody"

Seriously, you're language is still Norman/French.

One who culls?

Why is it that English Brits insist upon adding another vowel to so many words? Not just the vowel "u" eother. It is "aluminum" not "aluminium" ta.
Is this some sort of ancient war of bitterness you people have with the poor Welsh who barely even have vowels?
The Englis are Angles the Welsh are more Celtic The West of Britain resisted the Vikings and Angle/Saxons the Welsh and Irish go hard on n, g, h and stuff

The English love the e, even when it is at the end of a name and made silent, one must have an e.
Yay fore Ye OLde England!

Ah, but you're proceeding from the faulty supposition that modern British English is somehow older than modern American English, or that one of them "came from" the other. Both dialects came from a common parent language - colonial-era British English. Then both separately evolved into the dialects they are today. During that time, both changed approximately equal amounts of existing words for no particular reason other than "languages do that.

Actually American English retained a good number of lingustic features and words from Early Modern English that died out in England during the past few centuries. We are technically the older language of the two dialects.

I'm reminded of arguments about keyboard layouts & Ny Norsk..

But if you lot really want to bitch about language, then perhaps you should consider a few things besides bloodyminded jingoism. You could, for example, take a moment to think about what the purpose of language is.

Language, written & spoken, is our primary means of communication. Complexity may be beautiful to some, but simplicity enables more people to use it.

We have all the technology we need, to ensure that the linguistic equivalent of flotsam won't get lost in time. Languages weren't meant to contain that information to begin with, and bits of leftovers eventually vanish. If the information is important, store it where it won't get lost. Don't turn a perfectly innocent little language into a labyrinthine museum of times long past.

Languages need to aim for the lowest common denominator to be truely useful. Elitist wank is all well & good, but not for tools that fools rely on. Think the 'u' belongs in colour? Good for you, Mr. Snob. I trust you'll eradicate dyslexia next Friday & pay the extra taxes needed to teach our children the pointless intricacies of correct spelling.

In the end, though.. Languages are too difficult to overhaul. Though I'll be the first to admit that dropping superflous bits would be clever, not even Micro$hite have managed to change the colour of my writing.

As long as a person can spell most commonly used words correctly and uses proper grammar I have no problem with their writing or speaking. They should also be able to spell the words used in their profession correctly; I'd feel pretty concerned if a doctor or surgeon couldn't spell the name of a prescription or medical condition properly.

Of course when I'm talking about proper grammar I mean basic subject/verb conjugation, correct prepositions and sentence structure, not the fine points of the subjunctive mood or dependent clauses. Not even I know the grammatical rules well enough to do everything correctly.

As long as a person can spell common words correctly and uses proper grammar I have no problem with their writing or speaking.

Of course, I'm talking about basic subject/verb conjugation, correct prepositions and sentence structure, not the fine points of the subjunctive mood or dependent clauses. Not even I know the grammatical rules well enough to do everything correctly.Some would claim that English have no such rules. It's why it's so damn hard to learn.

Now I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.:)

Here's a visual guide:

Muffin:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e283/Slippery__Jim/muffinson.jpg
Biscuit:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e283/Slippery__Jim/raisin.jpg
Crumpet:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e283/Slippery__Jim/nkindex.jpg
I think on that last one, you misspelled "strumpet":p

Some would claim that English have no such rules. It's why it's so damn hard to learn.


I think it's relative; the closer the language is to English, the easier it is for them to learn English and vice versa. One of the biggest challenges is the irregularity and the second most difficult is probably the sheer amount of vocabulary.

The rules are there, but many of them are so archaic or obscure enough to not matter. English has no Academie Francaise to keep the language standard; that is, in my opinon, one of its strengths. An evolving language is a thriving language...

Generally, the only rules that really matter are the most basic; if you don't know them, no one will understand you and you'll sound, well, stupid. As long as you know how to conjugate verbs, use correct prepositions for common terms, and construct basic sentence structures you'll be able to communicate without confusion. The more complex stuff is useful for expressing yourself in a more interesting manner or for discussing a complicated subject, but it's not necessary to get by or for most activities.

Maybe, but you can't even get chips right. They're called crisps!:D
Crisps
http://www.javajane.co.uk/food/crisps.jpg
Chips
http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2005/02/17/chips2.jpg


Errrr, they're both chips silly, just one is hot and one is cold...

One who culls?



its where we get the word cullinary silly!:D

I agree

Why are Americans so fond of Z, what's wrong with S?

Or, more specifically, I'm fed up with computer programmes insisting that American English is the only variant of the language.

Why is it that I can install software in various versions of Chinese, French or Spanish, but the extra effort of putting a 'u' in here and there is too much for computer programmers?

You misspelt program. It is from Greek, not French.

Yay fore Ye OLde England!

The "Y" in "Ye" is a remnant from old English and is used in place of a letter of the alphabet that has long been discarded.

The discarded letter looked like a "Y" but there was a line from the top of the left bar to the centre of the right bar. It represented the sound "th".

So "Ye" is correctly pronounced "the" and means what the modern spelling suggests.