NationStates Jolt Archive

One really wonders what the American Left has in place of brains. There's a fellow that writes on the Huffington Post, named Philip Slater that makes one think of sawdust. It's almost as if he lives in a different time than the rest of us. Of course, he is agin the conflict with Iraq and he says so with this the following warning:

Perhaps the reason Americans seem so comfortable about bombing and invading little countries around the world is that the United States, unlike Europe, has never experienced "collateral damage". If we had ever been bombed and invaded ourselves, had our infrastructure demolished, been subject to foreign soldiers breaking into our homes at night, seen our children slaughtered and our houses destroyed, we would be, I suspect, less gung-ho about war and less cavalier about inflicting these horrors on other people.

If we take him at his word, I guess he was on Mars during the Autumn of 2001.

Well, I suppose you could compare what happened to the US, or even Pearl Harbour, to the kind of total warfare experienced by many nations in Europe...if you are in the habit of comparing mountains to molehills.

One really wonders what the American Left has in place of brains. There's a fellow that writes on the Huffington Post, named Philip Slater that makes one think of sawdust. It's almost as if he lives in a different time than the rest of us. Of course, he is agin the conflict with Iraq and he says so with this the following warning:

If we take him at his word, I guess he was on Mars during the Autumn of 2001.
He's just jealous that we can stop this sort of crap from happening and his own country can't.

Let's see?
US civilians bombed? No.
Infrastructure attacked? ie, water supply, eletricity grid, roadways. Nope.
Houses destroyed? Maybe by accident.
Children slaughtered? On technicality only.
Invaded? Mexicans don't count here, people.

I think you are the one living in a militaristic jingoist fantasy world.

Yay! Baseless slanders and generalisations, yet again. Oh, and I'm sure 9/11 and Pearl Harbour are equal to two world wars and countless smaller continents.

The man has a point - although the US had an extremely bloody civil war, it hasn't had anything to even try and equal the two world wars and the holocaust, not to mention the various wars before it.

He's just jealous that we can stop this sort of crap from happening and his own country can't.
Hahahahaaaa....sorry...but isn't the person in question actually from the US?

One really wonders what the American Left has in place of brains. There's a fellow that writes on the Huffington Post, named Philip Slater that makes one think of sawdust. It's almost as if he lives in a different time than the rest of us. Of course, he is agin the conflict with Iraq and he says so with this the following warning:

If we take him at his word, I guess he was on Mars during the Autumn of 2001.

Oh, houses were destroyed in 9/11?

The USA was invaded in 9/11?

I had no idea. Good to know the "American Right" has access to secret information the rest of the world apparently doesn't. I'm glad your one example of ignorance allows me to generalize about what a bunch of dumb fuckin' retards the "American Right" is.

Well, I suppose you could compare what happened to the US, or even Pearl Harbour, to the kind of total warfare experienced by many nations in Europe...if you are in the habit of comparing mountains to molehills.
Personally, I think a comparsion between the attacks on New York and Washington, DC and the attacks on Pearl Harbor are quite valid. And I believe that Pearl Harbor was, indeed, part of the U.S when it was attacked.

If you want to compare the attacks on New York with something from European history, don't you think the attacks on London come pretty close?

He's just jealous that we can stop this sort of crap from happening and his own country can't.
Yeah, I'm sure being seperated from any threats by water and distance has nothing to do with it. Oh wait, World Trade Center destruction. Good job stopping that. Proved we would be fucked if attacked by fighter planes.

And I believe that Pearl Harbor was, indeed, part of the U.S when it was attacked.
A military installation.

Hahahahaaaa....sorry...but isn't the person in question actually from the US?
*ding-ding-ding* :D jackpot!

Personally, I think a comparsion between the attacks on New York and Washington, DC and the attacks on Pearl Harbor are quite valid. And I believe that Pearl Harbor was, indeed, part of the U.S when it was attacked.

If you want to compare the attacks on New York with something from European history, don't you think the attacks on London come pretty close?

you should probably try reading it again...

He's just jealous that we can stop this sort of crap from happening and his own country can't.
What, America cant stop those things?

Personally, I think a comparsion between the attacks on New York and Washington, DC and the attacks on Pearl Harbor are quite valid. And I believe that Pearl Harbor was, indeed, part of the U.S when it was attacked.

If you want to compare the attacks on New York with something from European history, don't you think the attacks on London come pretty close?
Yeah and the British moved on and Americans still act like it was the biggest tragedy in the history of humanity.

Personally, I think a comparsion between the attacks on New York and Washington, DC and the attacks on Pearl Harbor are quite valid. And I believe that Pearl Harbor was, indeed, part of the U.S when it was attacked.

If you want to compare the attacks on New York with something from European history, don't you think the attacks on London come pretty close?
Or you could, as I believe previous posters were saying, compare them to the utter devastation visited on European cities during the Second World War. In which case the 9/11 attacks come nowhere near.

One really wonders what the American Left has in place of brains. There's a fellow that writes on the Huffington Post, named Philip Slater that makes one think of sawdust. It's almost as if he lives in a different time than the rest of us. Of course, he is agin the conflict with Iraq and he says so with this the following warning:

If we take him at his word, I guess he was on Mars during the Autumn of 2001.
Oh, so that guy is the American Left! I've been wondering who so many people have been talking about.

But since it's just one guy, why not just call him Slater instead of "The American Left"? :rolleyes:

(Can you say "Sweeping Generalizations" boys and girls?)

Personally, I think a comparsion between the attacks on New York and Washington, DC and the attacks on Pearl Harbor are quite valid. And I believe that Pearl Harbor was, indeed, part of the U.S when it was attacked.

If you want to compare the attacks on New York with something from European history, don't you think the attacks on London come pretty close?
You miss the point.

9-11 and Pearl Harbour don't even come close to comparing with what Europe experienced during the World Wars.

Let's look again:

"If we had ever been bombed and invaded ourselves, had our infrastructure demolished, been subject to foreign soldiers breaking into our homes at night, seen our children slaughtered and our houses destroyed..."

Alright, you've been bombed. Check.

Invaded? Nope.

Infrastructure demolished? No. Sorry...two buildings and a harbour do not consititute 'infrastructure'....forgive me if I think a little more extensive damage would have to be inflicted first.

Foreign soldiers breaking into your homes at night? Nope.

Your children slaughtered? Some died at the WTC, correct? I'll give you that one, as long as you do not try to tell me that the number of dead US children is equal to the number of dead children throughout Europe.

Houses destroyed? No.

Do you see why trying to say that these situations are equal simply fails?

If you want to compare the attacks on New York with something from European history, don't you think the attacks on London come pretty close?
let's see:

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41271000/jpg/_41271895_bombmap203220_lma.jpg
Purple: Damage beyond repair
Orange: Minor blast damage
Red: Serious damage

er.... no doubt the attacks on NY were worse...

Let's see?
US civilians bombed? No.
February 23rd, 1993. World Trade Center. Remember?

Infrastructure attacked? ie, water supply, eletricity grid, roadways. Nope.

Subways closed from 9/11 attacks due to destroyed rails. Yup. Anthrax letters sent through the mail. Yup. Broadcast signals interrupted by 9/11 attacks. Yup.

Houses destroyed? Maybe by accident.
Oh, it's only collateral damage, it doesn't count. :rolleyes: Rare words from the left, they're typically heard from the right.

Children slaughtered? On technicality only.
They're still children. A lot of those troops in Iraq are still in their teens. They could still be considered children.

Invaded? Mexicans don't count here, people.
Foreign operatives carrying out attacks by slipping into our country? Yup, that would qualify as an invasion, albeit on a small scale. And how dare you say Mexicans don't count. They're people, too.

I think you are the one living in a militaristic jingoist fantasy world.

And I think you are ill-informed or ignorant. :(

Hilarious.

The Mexicans are invading!!!!
*runs away screaming*

Or you could, as I believe previous posters were saying, compare them to the utter devastation visited on European cities during the Second World War. In which case the 9/11 attacks come nowhere near.
I don't know... maybe he has a point. Planes and destroyed buildings (http://homepage.eircom.net/~finnegam/war/images/blitz.5.gif). Why, yes, it's the exact same thing!

He's just jealous that we can stop this sort of crap from happening and his own country can't.

Pssst. He is in our country.

Oh dear god. I can't believe people are trying to compare 9/11 to what Europe suffered under.

Hilarious.

The Mexicans are invading!!!!
*runs away screaming*


Invading? Oh noes its much more serious. Its part of a plan to commit genocide against Whites! RUN! :p

Invading? Oh noes its much more serious. Its part of a plan to commit genocide against Whites! RUN! :p
If their plan involves having lots of sex and popping out brown babies, I'm all for it!

...
...

come on, even you two must feel some embarassment when you say stupid shit like this.

i think the BBC are exaggerating, bloody commies...
Direct bombing of industrial targets and civilian centres began on 7 September 1940 with heavy raids on London and rapidly escalated.

That month the German Air Force dropped 5,300 tons of high explosives on London in just 24 nights.

Invaded? Nope.

Actually 1812. ;)

Infrastructure demolished? No. Sorry...two buildings and a harbour do not consititute 'infrastructure'....forgive me if I think a little more extensive damage would have to be inflicted first.

Well in 1812 the Brits burned Washington.

Foreign soldiers breaking into your homes at night? Nope.

Your children slaughtered? Some died at the WTC, correct? I'll give you that one, as long as you do not try to tell me that the number of dead US children is equal to the number of dead children throughout Europe.

Houses destroyed? No.

Do you see why trying to say that these situations are equal simply fails?

Well in 1812 I am sure a bunch of that happened.

But that was also 194 years ago.

Personally, I think a comparsion between the attacks on New York and Washington, DC and the attacks on Pearl Harbor are quite valid. And I believe that Pearl Harbor was, indeed, part of the U.S when it was attacked.

If you want to compare the attacks on New York with something from European history, don't you think the attacks on London come pretty close?

The losses in the Blitz, according to Wikipedia:

43,000 civilians are estimated to have died during the campaign, with over 139,000 injured and around a million houses destroyed

That, of course, does not mention the pilots and ground crews who lost their lives on active service. Nor does it mention the extensive damage done to numerous government buildings in London, including the Houses of Parliament. Finally, it also does not accomodate for military infrastructure and equipment that was lost, such as planes, AA guns etc etc.

The losses at Pearl Harbour, according to Wikipedia:

2,335 military and 68 civilians killed,
1,143 military and 35 civilians wounded,
4 battleships sunk,
4 battleships damaged,
3 cruisers damaged,
3 destroyers sunk,
2 other ships sunk,
188 planes destroyed,
155 planes damaged

I think we can see that the validity of the comparison is minimal.

If their plan involves having lots of sex and popping out brown babies, I'm all for it!

....


....

You are one of them!

*runs*

Oh dear god. I can't believe people are trying to compare 9/11 to what Europe suffered under.
9-11 was terrible, I mean, come on...very few sane individuals would deny it...but it is really too much for these guys to be sitting here trying to tell us that it is equal to what happened in Europe.

I wonder if the intent here is not really to make that comparison, but to have people dissing 9-11, and therefore providing 'proof' that lefties hate the US, and think that the victims of that attack all deserved it...or something else underhanded like that. Make an outrageous claim, people attack the claim...twist it into 'people think that 9-11 was okay!'

Invading? Oh noes its much more serious. Its part of a plan to commit genocide against Whites! RUN! :p

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qw2fo-DMXPY&search=Illegal%20Immigrants

I dunno, some of them seem to think that's a good idea. You've got maniacs on all sides.

....


....

You are one of them!

*runs*
You left without the sex!!!

I think we can see that the validity of the comparison is minimal.

What you have to understand is that many people in the USA honestly believe American lives have more intrinsic value than non-American lives.

Hence how people suggest that Hiroshima and Nagasaki are directly comparable and equal to Pearl Harbor.

Generally, the rate of value inflation seems to be a factor of ten (or more). Thus it's alright to kill 30,000 Iraqi civilians, as long as 3,000 or so American civilians died.

One really wonders what the American Left has in place of brains. There's a fellow that writes on the Huffington Post, named Philip Slater that makes one think of sawdust. It's almost as if he lives in a different time than the rest of us. Of course, he is agin the conflict with Iraq and he says so with this the following warning:

If we take him at his word, I guess he was on Mars during the Autumn of 2001.

At least put the link to the story.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/philip-slater/lets-get-real-about-atro_b_23978.html

Children slaughtered? On technicality only.
They're still children. A lot of those troops in Iraq are still in their teens. They could still be considered children.
they are children?! you are sending children to fight wars????? :headbang:
*faints*

Yeah and the British moved on and Americans still act like it was the biggest tragedy in the history of humanity.

You have to remember we have short attention spans. The last major conflict on the soil with a foreign power was in 1812.

Remind me when the US last fought a war on it's own territory.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qw2fo-DMXPY&search=Illegal%20Immigrants

I dunno, some of them seem to think that's a good idea. You've got maniacs on all sides.

I see nothing there about committing or advocating genocide.

What you have to understand is that many people in the USA honestly believe American lives have more intrinsic value than non-American lives.
In all fairness, thinking that way is unfortunately not a uniquely American trait.

they are children?! you are sending children to fight wars????? :headbang:
*faints*
Hey, that first quote was not mine by the way.

At least put the link to the story.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/philip-slater/lets-get-real-about-atro_b_23978.html
I don't agree with everything he says, but I think he makes some valid and interesting points :)

Wait, where is Myrmidonisia? A cut and run?

Am I crazy, or did somebody in this thread compare 9/11 to the London Blitz?

Coz that is INSANE.

In all fairness, thinking that way is unfortunately not a uniquely American trait.

Of course not. I'm an American and generally am exposed to mostly American viewpoints, shared with other nations they may be.

But unlike with, say, Norway, the USA has enough power to kill 10 foreigners for every 1 citizen... and get away with it.

What you have to understand is that many people in the USA honestly believe American lives have more intrinsic value than non-American lives.

Hence how people suggest that Hiroshima and Nagasaki are directly comparable and equal to Pearl Harbor.

Generally, the rate of value inflation seems to be a factor of ten (or more). Thus it's alright to kill 30,000 Iraqi civilians, as long as 3,000 or so American civilians died.

also, the numbers aren't cummulative - the same 3,000 americans can be traded in for both 30,000 iraqis and 30,000 afghanis. and hell, we could even throw in a few other peoples as well, just in case.

in addition, there appears to be something of variable exchange rate, based on (to be perfectly honest) skin tone.

Hey, that first quote was not mine by the way.
corrected... my apologies for the mistake...

Wait, where is Myrmidonisia? A cut and run?

it's amazing how frequently that happens, isn't it?

9-11 was terrible, I mean, come on...very few sane individuals would deny it...but it is really too much for these guys to be sitting here trying to tell us that it is equal to what happened in Europe.


Well I guess it's a matter of perspective. A comparison to the death and destruction is crazy.

Shock value? Were people shocked by another major European conflict? Especially when WW1 was still in memory?

Now before 9/11 would you have bet money you would have ever thought it could happen in the US? People were stunned by it.

Comparing the two still remains apples vs oranges.

Of course not. I'm an American and generally am exposed to mostly American viewpoints, shared with other nations they may be.

But unlike with, say, Norway, the USA has enough power to kill 10 foreigners for every 1 citizen... and get away with it.
You're only saying that because you don't quite know what they're hiding in them thar Fjords! :eek:

Wait, where is Myrmidonisia? A cut and run?
I like to stir the pot once in a while, then sit back and watch. I'm going to head down to the lake, with a large glass of bourbon, presently. Y'all can carry on and I'll check back in after I've fed the fish.

it's amazing how frequently that happens, isn't it?
Isn't that trolling? At what point does that get reported? Page 10 maybe?

Oh, so that guy is the American Left! I've been wondering who so many people have been talking about.

But since it's just one guy, why not just call him Slater instead of "The American Left"? :rolleyes:

(Can you say "Sweeping Generalizations" boys and girls?)

When someone on the left makes a particularly juicy target he becomes "the Left," no matter how trivial a figure he is. When someone on the Right makes an ass of him/herself, that person is instantly deemed irrelevant, no matter how important he is.

e.g. I posted a thread about Tom Delay's corruption a while back asking conservative posters to "Defend This." The response I got was that Conservatives don't need to defend it because the House Majority Leader isn't really that important to the conservative movement!:eek:

Ward Churchill, an obscure professor that noone had heard of before became "The Left" when he made a fairly dumb statement about 9/11. But Anne Coulter argues that liberals should be murdered and she's "just the conservative Michael Moore."

I'd ask what the Right has in place of brains, but I already know that it's radio recievers hooked directly up to their mouths, that's why they all quote Karl Rove directly whenever they talk. What I want to know is what do they have instead of decency.

corrected... my apologies for the mistake...
Thanks:)

I see nothing there about committing or advocating genocide.

"The last gasp of white America."

"We're in a civil war. United Latinos will win!"

And if you read comments on youtube about videos that are critical of illegal immigrants, if not on that video in particular, than on others, you see plently of cries to "kill the gringos."

Back on topic, comparing the London bombings in World War II to 9/11 is completely insane. It's like comparing having your hand cut off to losing the entire arm. Both hurt, both are horrible things to have happen, but losing the arm is more.

Philip Slater

Yes ... I seem to recall electing him King of the Liberals and granting him the title "Undesputed Voice of the American Left".

Remind me when the US last fought a war on it's own territory.

Well the Civil War in the 1860s

The War of 1812.

We did have minuscule invasion by Japan in the Aleutians

Am I crazy, or did somebody in this thread compare 9/11 to the London Blitz?

Coz that is INSANE.

I think the poster was comparing 9/11 to the terrorist attacks on London, which is a fair compareson. I agree that you can't compare the destruction of one large building and 3K people to the WW2 Blitz!

The 9/11 disaster is worse then any european attack that has happened in at least the last 50 years.

It killed thousands of people.
It destroyed a central part of new york and a major part of the economy.

Yes ... I seem to recall electing him King of the Liberals and granting him the title "Undesputed Voice of the American Left".
Actually, he did receive a award from Ms Magazine. He's one of their "Male Heroes". Whatever that means.

Back on topic, comparing the London bombings in World War II to 9/11 is completely insane. It's like comparing having your hair cut off to losing an entire arm. Both hurt, both are horrible things to have happen, but losing the arm is more.
Fixed.

Yes ... I seem to recall electing him King of the Liberals and granting him the title "Undesputed Voice of the American Left".
Indeed. Just remember the name the next time you come across such a generalisation about the "American Left" - then all you have to do to respond is this:

*Shakes fist at Philip Slater*
SLAAAAAATEEEEEERR!!!

The 9/11 disaster is worse then any european attack that has happened in at least the last 50 years.

It killed thousands of people.
It destroyed a central part of new york and a major part of the economy.

You're joking...right?

Actually, he did receive a award from Ms Magazine. He's one of their "Male Heroes". Whatever that means.

Oh don't be coy, you know you read Ms Magazine. ;)

Am I crazy, or did somebody in this thread compare 9/11 to the London Blitz?

Coz that is INSANE.
I don't know how insane, it certainly destroyed a large portion of Manhattan. That attack killed a large number of people. The country's economy suffered. It certainly surpassed any one night of bombing by the Germans in any calculation.

Oh don't be coy, you know you read Ms Magazine. ;)
No, I just look at the pictures.

Fixed.

We'll meet in the middle. How about losing three fingers and stubbing your toe to losing your arm?

I don't know how insane, it certainly destroyed a large portion of Manhattan. That attack killed a large number of people. The country's economy suffered. It certainly surpassed any one night of bombing by the Germans in any calculation.

You're still trying to compare the two? You're nutso. We don't have to compare it to just the British, you know. What about Dresden, for example? I'm sure that caused just as much adamge, if not more.

"The last gasp of white America."

"We're in a civil war. United Latinos will win!"

Radical, but still doesn't advocate genocide. Declining birth rates is not genocide. "Cide" means to kill, not to just die off "cuz they're not making babies."


And if you read comments on youtube about videos that are critical of illegal immigrants, if not on that video in particular, than on others, you see plently of cries to "kill the gringos."

Yeah, but youtube is full of that kind of nonsense. I would guess a good many of those comments are made by people who don't give a shit about the topic and/or are actually white people. Trolling nonsense, unlike when people actually make what are held to be 'arguments' advocating the planned extermination of people based on race.

You're joking...right?

No, look at the facts. You won't find any attack on western european soil as bad as that since the war.

We'll meet in the middle. How about losing three fingers and stubbing your toe to losing your arm?
Deal.

Myrmidonisia, you have a two week forum ban, and an official warning for trolling, with deletion recommended on next offence. Don't worry, I will arrange a nice telegram so you will know about it.

You will not troll. You will certainly not boast about it and expect to keep your nation.

The 9/11 disaster is worse then any european attack that has happened in at least the last 50 years.

It killed thousands of people.
It destroyed a central part of new york and a major part of the economy.

No, look at the facts. You won't find any attack on western european soil as bad as that since the war.
Nice...

If you want to compare the attacks on New York with something from European history, don't you think the attacks on London come pretty close?
There really haven't been anywhere near enough attacks on New York to compare them with the Blitz just yet. You've had two (admittedly very prominent) buildings brought down and a couple of thousand dead caused by a relatively small group that themselves perished in the attacks. Now imagine that occurring city-wide for 57 days straight - one of which killed over three thousand - by bombers who survived to bring yet more destruction. There's the fundamental difference.

And Britain has gotten off lightly on the casualty side of things compared to the rest of the world. Poland lost about 2 million of its citizens to the war, while estimates place the Russian civilian casualties at the eleven million mark.

Perhaps the key counterexample to Slater's statement is the American Civil War, but even then almost all of the recorded casualties were military. 9/11 is the closest America has ever come to an attack on civilians, and compared to events in Europe, Asia and Africa, it has been far oversold as an example of Collateral Damage.

Man, we have some awfully touchy moderators today. The ban suits me, though. I should be doing something else.

Adios!

Man, we have some awfully touchy moderators today. The ban suits me, though. I should be doing something else.

Adios!
Actually, on second thoughts, you both just got nuked.