NationStates Jolt Archive

Hi to everyone!

There are some extreme elements in US society that is often very visible in your local news network, or newspapers or internet or blogosphere.

Many USAmericans will say that these elements are extremists. Not reflective of the opinions of the mainstream. Problem is the rest of us who get fed USAmerican newspaganda can't tell how mainstream or how extreme they really are.

This poll asks: how do these elements affect your perception of the USA?

GW Bush
Fundamentalist Christians
Evangelical Christians
Creationists/Intelligent Design movement
Supporters of Gun Rights
Groups against homosexuals
Groups in support of military torture
Anti-abortionists
Groups against embryonic stem cell research
Supporters of '03 Iraq invasion/continued occupation of Iraq

They are extremists to me. How much do they affect your view of the USA?

"The Amish are fundamentalists, but they don't hijack a carriage at needlepoint." -Robin Williams

Hey Xis - i actually catch a thread of yours early.
Is this specific to non-US'rs, or no?
I know you addressed the nons, but i didn't know if exclusivity were an issue or not.

Bam! And Jello-Boobs takes the lead in the poll, 1-0-0-0!!!

Bam! And Jello-Boobs takes the lead in the poll, 1-0-0-0!!!
How many Xisla polls have you been exposed to before? *tsks*

How many Xisla polls have you been exposed to before? *tsks*
Not enough, clearly. But there can never be enough.

...now ahead 3-0-0-1...

Hey Xis - i actually catch a thread of yours early.
Is this specific to non-US'rs, or no?
I know you addressed the nons, but i didn't know if exclusivity were an issue or not.

I've edited the thread to let everyone have their say. Whoopie!

Yes.

The impression we get of American society is that it is dangerously extreme. Factors that contribute to this are:

Your inability to elect non-psychotic leaders
Normal people carrying guns around
Capital punishment
Teaching creationism in schools
Country and Western music
Almost total lack of social welfare network
Hideous state egocentrism and superiority complex
Billy Ray Cyrus


Please don't get me wrong - I'm talking about our impression of your nation as a whole, not about individuals.

Yes.

Bush scares me.
The fact that homosexuality seems to be so foreign to many Americans.. :confused:
People who like torture? Meh. Stupid.

GW Bush - Not an extremist

Fundamentalist Christians - Don't care about them or fear them

Evangelical Christians - Whats wrong with them?

Creationists/Intelligent Design movement - Thats not extremism, just a different view.

Supporters of Gun Rights - They are right and we do have the right to hold guns, we need more of them!

Groups against homosexuals - I am gay and don't care!

Groups in support of military torture - Like who?

Anti-abortionists - Thats me!

Groups against embryonic stem cell research - They think different and have that right.

Supporters of '03 Iraq invasion/continued occupation of Iraq - Again, they have that right and have a good heart in wanting it.

GW Bush - Not an extremist

Fundamentalist Christians - Don't care about them or fear them

Evangelical Christians - Whats wrong with them?

Creationists/Intelligent Design movement - Thats not extremism, just a different view.

Supporters of Gun Rights - They are right and we do have the right to hold guns, we need more of them!

Groups against homosexuals - I am gay and don't care!

Groups in support of military torture - Like who?

Anti-abortionists - Thats me!

Groups against embryonic stem cell research - They think different and have that right.

Supporters of '03 Iraq invasion/continued occupation of Iraq - Again, they have that right and have a good heart in wanting it.

All of those sound extremist to a non-USAmerican like me though. Are there any other non-USAmerican who agrees with Empress_Suiko?

All of those sound extremist to a non-USAmerican like me though. Are there any other non-USAmerican who agrees with Empress_Suiko?



Why are they extremist?

FYI, Don't use the word USAmerican, its american and I am not an american.

Why are they extremist?

FYI, Don't use the word USAmerican, its american and I am not an american.

You are... Korean??? :confused:

FYI, Don't use the word USAmerican, its american and I am not an american.

Good for you. USian and USAmerican aren't real words. They are tacky terms made up by pseudo-intellectuals. Anyone interested in the proper usage of the English language says American.

You are... Korean??? :confused:


No, I am Japanese.....A REAL Japanese person.

*shrug*

I'm more concerned about such freaks as:
-NRA
-Nation of Islam
-NARAL
-PETA
-satanists
- SUV-owners
-Cindy Sheehan
-flagburners
-opponenents of TIGHT immigration-control.
-Dean-supporters


Why was Lt Rusty McCally in charge at My Lay?
Because Lt Bill Clinton had skived off...

Boobs! *drools*
Err...damn you Xisla, now all I can think of is je...boobs. I like boobs. Nay, I dare even say that I love them. Unfortunatly is still two hours till my better half (we're not married but she's half of our relationship and is certainly the better one) comes home and can let me say hello to her two boobies. I'll ask them about current events and we'll talk and laugh till the sunset comes. It'll be so good! *teary eyed*

Good for you. USian and USAmerican aren't real words. They are tacky terms made up by pseudo-intellectuals. Anyone interested in the proper usage of the English language says American.

Meh. I couldn't care less about the term "American" really, but out of respect to people who live in other countries in America (since they do exist, all ~500 million of them), I use USAmerican to be more specific.

Am I being thread-jacked into a side issue about "pseudo"-intellectuals? Tropical Sands, I've read many of your posts, they are well thought and well written. Yet this time you attack me because of a term? :confused:

Why are they extremist?

FYI, Don't use the word USAmerican, its american and I am not an american.


From most part of the occidental world they are extremist. And maybe USians is not a real word, but american is not accurate, is a part of your problem, you think you are the most important thing in the universe. Most americans are not citizens of the united states of america. Most americans speak spanish, a part of them in the US.

And about the general thread...., most of the "civilized" world walks towards less violent societies, but the USA. Most of them make bigger the wide between religions and politics-society. Most of us have learned to fear the war, specially preemtive and colonial, like irak one. Almost every country in Europe and Japan too has learned costly that empires, world control and so just bring misery, and has always a hard end.

*snip*

I'm more concerned about such freaks as:
-NRA
*snip*


I used to like Heston...till I found out he's some high ranking somebody in the NRA. Now I think he's an überswine. Do you reckon he likes boobs as much as guns?

From most part of the occidental world they are extremist. And maybe USians is not a real word, but american is not accurate, is a part of your problem, you think you are the most important thing in the universe. Most americans are not citizens of the united states of america. Most americans speak spanish, a part of them in the US.

And about the general thread...., most of the "civilized" world walks towards less violent societies, but the USA. Most of them make bigger the wide between religions and politics-society. Most of us have learned to fear the war, specially preemtive and colonial, like irak one. Almost every country in Europe and Japan too has learned costly that empires, world control and so just bring misery, and has always a hard end.


American is correct as the USA is the only nation that has that word in its name.


Fear war? They are just scared, I don't respect them as I don't fear war and support it as a means of defense. You fear war you fear defending yourself. That silly fear has lead to Japan being at the will of the US and being afraid of a nation smaller than it. Just sad, a proud nation of warriors reduced to this?

I used to like Heston...till I found out he's some high ranking somebody in the NRA. Now I think he's an überswine. Do you reckon he likes boobs as much as guns?


There is nothing wrong with the NRA, they just defend their rights.

Just because he supports something you don't doesn't make him a swine.

I used to like Heston...till I found out he's some high ranking somebody in the NRA. Now I think he's an überswine. Do you reckon he likes boobs as much as guns?


Forgive me for the following rant:

Those folks are so completely fiddlesticked in the head, that they'd rather fondle a gun than a girly!

Heston did the 10 Commandments ( and I like that film ), so which part of 'Lo Tirtsach!' does he not understand?
Walking around with a gun is preparing yourself to kill.
Morally reprehensible, in the view of this here Christian.

Meh. I couldn't care less about the term "American" really, but out of respect to people who live in other countries in America (since they do exist, all ~500 million of them), I use USAmerican to be more specific.

Am I being thread-jacked into a side issue about "pseudo"-intellectuals? Tropical Sands, I've read many of your posts, they are well thought and well written. Yet this time you attack me because of a term? :confused:

Yeah, I'm thread-jacking this sucker and taking it to Entebbe.

But seriously, I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking you over the term. I just think its getting absurd on NSG.

Boobs! *drools*
Err...damn you Xisla, now all I can think of is je...boobs. I like boobs. Nay, I dare even say that I love them. Unfortunatly is still two hours till my better half (we're not married but she's half of our relationship and is certainly the better one) comes home and can let me say hello to her two boobies. I'll ask them about current events and we'll talk and laugh till the sunset comes. It'll be so good! *teary eyed*

Some boobs are more jelly-ish and watery-wobbly. Some just heave. Some don't even move much. Sometimes it depends on size, but not really, small boobs can move more than bigger ones. I don't know why this is so, except for some medical term called "pendulous"-ness.

I would start on whole thread on this, but then the mods would kill it. Oh well. :(

Forgive me for the following rant:

Those folks are so completely fiddlesticked in the head, that they'd rather fondle a gun than a girly!

Heston did the 10 Commandments ( and I like that film ), so which part of 'Lo Tirtsach!' does he not understand?
Walking around with a gun is preparing yourself to kill.
Morally reprehensible, in the view of this here Christian.


Owning a gun is Morally reprehensible? Gimme a break.:rolleyes:

There is nothing wrong with the NRA, they just defend their rights.

Just because he supports something you don't doesn't make him a swine.

Ofcourse it makes him a swine. To me. And since the world is just a mirror of my own mind and is thusly controlled by me I can't be wrong. Though it kinda makes me wonder why I haven't thinked myself a better car and abs like those of a god...oh, and world peace and all that crap.

Ofcourse it makes him a swine. To me. And since the world is just a mirror of my own mind and is thusly controlled by me I can't be wrong. Though it kinda makes me wonder why I haven't thinked myself a better car and abs like those of a god...oh, and world peace and all that crap.



Of course owning a gun you have never used against another person and would not unless forced is reallly bad.

American is correct as the USA is the only nation that has that word in its name.


Fear war? They are just scared, I don't respect them as I don't fear war and support it as a means of defense. You fear war you fear defending yourself. That silly fear has lead to Japan being at the will of the US and being afraid of a nation smaller than it. Just sad, a proud nation of warriors reduced to this?


Ok, american is right from the point of view of linguistic but politically is not accurated. I have no problem to use american, but neither to use USian, we are all the time using strange words and briefings (¿?) that make me hard to understand sometimes, and isn't proper english.

And about war, i agree with you, I'm ready to fight for my freedom and so, in my border. I meant foreign adventures like Irak, or japanese participation in WWII, or the looooooooooooong wars my country (spain) held to be the superpower in europe and America. Hegemony is something very expensive and is never permanent. That's all I wanted to say. An a nation of warriors is the worst thing I can expect to be my country. I want to be the part of nation of scientist, of writers, of artist, of solidarity, etc..

Ok, american is right from the point of view of linguistic but politically is not accurated. I have no problem to use american, but neither to use USian, we are all the time using strange words and briefings (¿?) that make me hard to understand sometimes, and isn't proper english.

And about war, i agree with you, I'm ready to fight for my freedom and so, in my border. I meant foreign adventures like Irak, or japanese participation in WWII, or the looooooooooooong wars my country (spain) held to be the superpower in europe and America. Hegemony is something very expensive and is never permanent. That's all I wanted to say. An a nation of warriors is the worst thing I can expect to be my country. I want to be the part of nation of scientist, of writers, of artist, of solidarity, etc..


I would to, but I also want one that can protect itself and fear no nation.

Some boobs are more jelly-ish and watery-wobbly. Some just heave. Some don't even move much. Sometimes it depends on size, but not really, small boobs can move more than bigger ones. I don't know why this is so, except for some medical term called "pendulous"-ness.

I would start on whole thread on this, but then the mods would kill it. Oh well. :(

Boobies can be considered a whole science. I like the ones that are ergonomic to hold and that moves moderatly when shaken. James Bonds drinking motto can be applied to boobies as far as I'm concerned. Size is a deciding factor but I've found out that in the end pretty much any size is nice. A pair of "off" size boobies is better, after all, than a punch in face. It would be interesting to get pucnhed in the face by a pair of angry bobbies though. At least I imagine.

From most part of the occidental world they are extremist. And maybe USians is not a real word, but american is not accurate, is a part of your problem, you think you are the most important thing in the universe. Most americans are not citizens of the united states of america. Most americans speak spanish, a part of them in the US.

I speak Spanish, I've lived all over the American continents. And, even in Spanish, in whatever South American state you're in, citizens of the United States are called Americanos, no one else is. American is accurate, exactly as it is defined in English and in Spanish. No one confuses the term.

In fact, its implctly insulting to the rest of the people on the American continents when you use terms like USian, as if the rest of people on the American continents consider themselves American (they don't) and there is some confusion (there isn't).

In addition, since you've obviously never been to or lived in a country in Latin America, I can assure you that the Western world does not all view Americans as extremists. This is a view almost exlusive to Europe. It is not something I've encountered in my life anywhere in Mexico, South America, the Caribbean, or Southeast Asia.

Forgive me for the following rant:

Those folks are so completely fiddlesticked in the head, that they'd rather fondle a gun than a girly!

Heston did the 10 Commandments ( and I like that film ), so which part of 'Lo Tirtsach!' does he not understand?
Walking around with a gun is preparing yourself to kill.
Morally reprehensible, in the view of this here Christian.


I thought we'll never agree and I must confess I'm impressed. *Clap hands with a little tears running down the cheek*
I'm not a believer of any religion but I agree, if you carry a gun is much easier you end killing or hurting someone.

Of course owning a gun you have never used against another person and would not unless forced is reallly bad.

I think that was aimed at mr. Bog? Anyway, I might as well capitalize on the confusion and simply say that, for this once, I actually completely agree with Bogmarsh.

Oh damn...I think I ate too much fibres this morning...they all need to come out now. Hello toilet!
Oh god...it's a boy!

Ok, american is right from the point of view of linguistic but politically is not accurated. I have no problem to use american, but neither to use USian, we are all the time using strange words and briefings (¿?) that make me hard to understand sometimes, and isn't proper english.

American is politically accurate. You're confusing geography with politics. No other country on Earth uses "American" as a personal noun. In addition, the term "American" occurs as a synonym on virtually all political documents around the world, in varying languages. USian never occurs.

I thought we'll never agree and I must confess I'm impressed. *Clap hands with a little tears running down the cheek*
I'm not a believer of any religion but I agree, if you carry a gun is much easier you end killing or hurting someone.



Ever heard of a saftey?

Of course owning a gun you have never used against another person and would not unless forced is reallly bad.

You know I have nothing against people owning deactivated firearms and polishing it everyday to brush their teeth against their reflection.

Nothing against using the said firearm to twack an attacker on the head if the person is being attacked.

However, the right for a civilian to load bullets into a completely effective killing machine, thus permitting people to escalate fist-fights into a gun-fight, making "America" the lone industrialized state with a substantial number of civilian deaths due to guns, well...

I used to like Heston... Do you reckon he likes boobs as much as guns?
Ask him when he's donning that ever-so-fetching neckscarf. You know, the one that lent so much masculinity to his roles. :rolleyes:

I speak Spanish, I've lived all over the American continents. And, even in Spanish, in whatever South American state you're in, citizens of the United States are called Americanos, no one else is. American is accurate, exactly as it is defined in English and in Spanish. No one confuses the term.

In fact, its implctly insulting to the rest of the people on the American continents when you use terms like USian, as if the rest of people on the American continents consider themselves American (they don't) and there is some confusion (there isn't).

In addition, since you've obviously never been to or lived in a country in Latin America, I can assure you that the Western world does not all view Americans as extremists. This is a view almost exlusive to Europe. It is not something I've encountered in my life anywhere in Mexico, South America, the Caribbean, or Southeast Asia.

Well, in my spanish, from europe, is estadounidenses or americanos, I just wanted to say that there's nothing wrong within creating new words, these more accurated. As long as America is a geographical term before being a political one. But please, is really so important?

And I think now in Central and south america USA is not going trough it's best moment on people's apreciation. I've seen serious polls (Pew institute) about the degree of approval of the USA in the world is quite low in the entire world, specially in Europe.

Ever heard of a saftey?

Yes, I always have the saftey on when humping someone whose name I don't know.

Boobies can be considered a whole science. I like the ones that are ergonomic to hold and that moves moderatly when shaken. James Bonds drinking motto can be applied to boobies as far as I'm concerned. Size is a deciding factor but I've found out that in the end pretty much any size is nice. A pair of "off" size boobies is better, after all, than a punch in face. It would be interesting to get pucnhed in the face by a pair of angry bobbies though. At least I imagine.

For me size matters, well, to the extent that it affects shape. I'm afraid I'm more picky, like a boob connoisseur. A well-shaped boob is a delight. Movement is good too. I prefer a nice pair of "C"s that hang nicely, a little overhang on the chest. Ah! :D

Yes, I always have the saftey on when humping someone whose name I don't know.

I always have the safety on.

(Where's the "Some are extremist, some aren't" option?)

GW Bush - Should be dragged into the street and shot. He's made the rest of the world hate America, and it's the only way we can sufficiently distance ourselves from him.
Fundamentalist Christians - We should officially teach atheism in public schools to deal with them. Teaching ABOUT religion is OK, but not promoting religion. Same goes for the teaching of Islamism in California schools.
Evangelical Christians - Same as Fundies.
Creationists/Intelligent Design movement - Same as Fundies.
Supporters of Gun Rights - I believe in gun rights.
Groups against homosexuals - Combat religious fundamentalism (see above) and most of the homophobia will dry up.
Groups in support of military torture - Morons. Torture may get information, but if the victim is not a terrorist (or even is a terrorist and low on the hierarchy) they may not have the needed information and will tell us anything, then we rely on it and get killed.
Anti-abortionists - I don't believe in abortion after the fetus develops a brain, unless absolutely needed to save the mother.
Groups against embryonic stem cell research - Fundies. See above.
Supporters of '03 Iraq invasion/continued occupation of Iraq - Saddam Hussein is a bad man and needed to be removed from power and tried as a war criminal, but we should just arm the Iraqis to fight the insurgents. Arming the Israelis eventually produced a military force superior to our own, if we take the aid we're now giving to Israel and give it to Iraq, they can fight their own insurgents, and make the world not hate us for supporting Israel anymore. It's not like the Israelis need our aid anymore, anyway. They did just fine in 1967 without a single American soldier, so yes, the 1967 borders are defensible, contrary to the Kahanist nuts who say that the international community wants them to shrink into indefensible borders.[/Israel rant]

Well, in my spanish, from europe, is estadounidenses or americanos, I just wanted to say that there's nothing wrong within creating new words, these more accurated. As long as America is a geographical term before being a political one. But please, is really so important?

We hate Spanish from Spain! :D

But no, it isn't that important. What bothers me is that people try to use the term USians to discredit the United States. People in the United States don't use the term "Americans" because they are self-centered bigots. The etymology arose due to European explorers calling the New World the Americas, via Amerigo Vespucci, and became a part of the English language. Its a European term. It wasn't some term created by people in the United States that were so pig-headed they didn't realize that there were other countries there.

For me size matters, well, to the extent that it affects shape. I'm afraid I'm more picky, like a boob connoisseur. A well-shaped boob is a delight. Movement is good too. I prefer a nice pair of "C"s that hang nicely, a little overhang on the chest. Ah! :D

Size matter for me as well. I said that "...in the end I'm happy with any boobs" but if I get to pick my preference falls closely to your. Big c's or d's. What can I say...some men like the ass, some the hips, some the feet but I like the boobs. I feel so lucky that my loved one is blessed with a nice pair (and with much else to). Though I must sanitize my appartment in less than an hour now, before she arrives here. Or she'll frown at me and take a walk while I'm forced to polish the place :D

Ah...shape. I like most shapes but the ones that have that somewhat banana shaped curve to them always makes me a little extra happy. That shape is so...naughty it drives me nuts! (almost literally)

Ever heard of a saftey?

So I'll go to a red light district, but not actually have my zipper open.

There is no way one could count that as preparing oneself to fornicate...

*snip*In addition, since you've obviously never been to or lived in a country in Latin America, I can assure you that the Western world does not all view Americans as extremists. This is a view almost exlusive to Europe. It is not something I've encountered in my life anywhere in Mexico, South America, the Caribbean, or Southeast Asia.

I don't think "America" is popular among Indonesians and Malaysians and Myanmese nowadays. Thais, Vietnamese, Laotian, Cambodians, Singaporeans, Bruneians are more neutral. A lone Philippines doesn't the whole Southeast Asia make.

These elements are extremists and they do give me a bad impression of the USA but - hot dang! - I love jello because it sure does wobble like boobs. Yum!

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/titty.gif
Hehehe!


(Besides - while I don't use the term "USian" 'cause that looks and sounds stupid - using US-Americans to particularly address the folks in the USA is not stupid, only focused. And the term US-Americans does exist in other languages as well.
That the USA is the only one having "America" in their name only shows their overinflated ego and blatant disregard of other people living in the Americas)

Size matter for me as well. I said that "...in the end I'm happy with any boobs" but if I get to pick my preference falls closely to your. Big c's or d's. What can I say...some men like the ass, some the hips, some the feet but I like the boobs. I feel so lucky that my loved one is blessed with a nice pair (and with much else to). Though I must sanitize my appartment in less than an hour now, before she arrives here. Or she'll frown at me and take a walk while I'm forced to polish the place :D

Ah...shape. I like most shapes but the ones that have that somewhat banana shaped curve to them always makes me a little extra happy. That shape is so...naughty it drives me nuts! (almost literally)

Lucky dude. I must confess I have only dated meaty women, well endowed in the boobs department. My favorite shape is a narrow shape from the front, smooth slope on top, with generous roundness below, tucked in with a bit of overhang. So that it swings a little with every movement and wobbles like jelly when she laughs! AH! :D

We hate Spanish from Spain! :D

But no, it isn't that important. What bothers me is that people try to use the term USians to discredit the United States. People in the United States don't use the term "Americans" because they are self-centered bigots. The etymology arose due to European explorers calling the New World the Americas, via Amerigo Vespucci, and became a part of the English language. Its a European term. It wasn't some term created by people in the United States that were so pig-headed they didn't realize that there were other countries there.

Luckily I'm from the south of spain, where language is quite different from the center and north. We talk closer to the american spanish accent, thanks to god.

And by the other question, I know all that, and I can understand why it became in the name of the citizens and why is the only country to use word America in it's name, it was the first independent state in the whole continent. But in spanish I use a word "estadounidenses" that allows to no confusion, so when I first saw USians, seemed funny and useful.

Hi to everyone!

There are some extreme elements in US society that is often very visible in your local news network, or newspapers or internet or blogosphere.

Many USAmericans will say that these elements are extremists. Not reflective of the opinions of the mainstream. Problem is the rest of us who get fed USAmerican newspaganda can't tell how mainstream or how extreme they really are.

This poll asks: how do these elements affect your perception of the USA?

GW Bush
Fundamentalist Christians
Evangelical Christians
Creationists/Intelligent Design movement
Supporters of Gun Rights
Groups against homosexuals
Groups in support of military torture
Anti-abortionists
Groups against embryonic stem cell research
Supporters of '03 Iraq invasion/continued occupation of Iraq

They are extremists to me. How much do they affect your view of the USA?

1. I like how all of those groups are 'extremists' and how you define 'extremism' as automatically wrong.

Here's a hint:

Extremism in itself is neither right nor wrong.


The opposition to slavery was extreme in its time, when they said: "There can be no compromise about this issue. Slavery is evil, period."

Who was it that said...

"God, Guts, Guns and the Flag make America great - let's keep all four."

Who was it that said...

"God, Guts, Guns and the Flag make America great - let's keep all four."


I don't know but is quite stupid. Freedom made America (you see, I'm not extremist about it) great, freedom and a big country not too populated, so you could take advantage of the natural resources.

I don't know but is quite stupid. Freedom made America (you see, I'm not extremist about it) great, freedom and a big country not too populated, so you could take advantage of the natural resources.


I would point out that freedom was guaranteed by certain things the early Americans did - and any historian would argue that the religion of the population played a vital role in building their system of values. Guts - i.e. holding on to that freedom in face of incredible odds, and guns, having the actual firepower to back it up. And the flag, of course, as a symbol of the American federal democratic republic system.

I would point out that freedom was guaranteed by certain things the early Americans did - and any historian would argue that the religion of the population played a vital role in building their system of values. Guts - i.e. holding on to that freedom in face of incredible odds, and guns, having the actual firepower to back it up. And the flag, of course, as a symbol of the American federal democratic republic system.


It was, but also the greatness of separating religion and state. And what was useful to build a nation two centuries ago, is no more now.

Hi to everyone!

There are some extreme elements in US society that is often very visible in your local news network, or newspapers or internet or blogosphere.

Many USAmericans will say that these elements are extremists. Not reflective of the opinions of the mainstream. Problem is the rest of us who get fed USAmerican newspaganda can't tell how mainstream or how extreme they really are.

This poll asks: how do these elements affect your perception of the USA?

GW Bush
Fundamentalist Christians
Evangelical Christians
Creationists/Intelligent Design movement
Supporters of Gun Rights
Groups against homosexuals
Groups in support of military torture
Anti-abortionists
Groups against embryonic stem cell research
Supporters of '03 Iraq invasion/continued occupation of Iraq

They are extremists to me. How much do they affect your view of the USA?
All of those are extremists, except maybe for the gun rights activists and the anti-abortionists. I don't agree with either of them, but I can see where they are coming from.

It was, but also the greatness of separating religion and state.

That - if indeed true, as there is controversy - is only a product of the above, just like the American jury system.

And what was useful to build a nation two centuries ago, is no more now.

That, sir, is what I call an unproven assertion.

Hi to everyone!

There are some extreme elements in US society that is often very visible in your local news network, or newspapers or internet or blogosphere.

Many USAmericans will say that these elements are extremists. Not reflective of the opinions of the mainstream. Problem is the rest of us who get fed USAmerican newspaganda can't tell how mainstream or how extreme they really are.

This poll asks: how do these elements affect your perception of the USA?

GW Bush
Fundamentalist Christians
Evangelical Christians
Creationists/Intelligent Design movement
Supporters of Gun Rights
Groups against homosexuals
Groups in support of military torture
Anti-abortionists
Groups against embryonic stem cell research
Supporters of '03 Iraq invasion/continued occupation of Iraq

They are extremists to me. How much do they affect your view of the USA?


They aren't all the same people.

If you take just one group, supporters of gun rights, it's pretty apparent that state by state, going by the actions of the state legislatures over the past decade, where the right to carry concealed firearms has been enacted in almost every US state, in some cases overriding the veto of a Democratic governor, one can come to the conclusion that a majority of voting Americans support gun rights at least to that level - and that many support gun rights at a lower level that is still much higher than the non-existent gun rights in some other countries.

So that would mean that on this issue, I'm in tune with a majority of Americans, and I am by no means "extreme". I'm solidly in the mainstream there.

American is correct as the USA is the only nation that has that word in its name.

Nation?, yes

What about a continent with that word in that name?

Estadounidense or Unitedstater seems to be more proper, but as I have explained before, nothing wrong with them calling themselves americans, after all, the ARE americans.

And, on topic, well. USA is a country of extremes, don't you think?

Just my opinion...

They aren't all the same people.

If you take just one group, supporters of gun rights, it's pretty apparent that state by state, going by the actions of the state legislatures over the past decade, where the right to carry concealed firearms has been enacted in almost every US state, in some cases overriding the veto of a Democratic governor, one can come to the conclusion that a majority of voting Americans support gun rights at least to that level - and that many support gun rights at a lower level that is still much higher than the non-existent gun rights in some other countries.

So that would mean that on this issue, I'm in tune with a majority of Americans, and I am by no means "extreme". I'm solidly in the mainstream there.

Which is disturbing to me because, then, what is mainstream in your country is extreme to other industrialized countries.

Perhaps its not just a few extremists. Perhaps most "Americans" are really extremists with a few moderates. The World should then wake up and examine what the US is trying to achieve, very closely.

Xisa Khan: So how is extremism precisely BAD?

Xisa Khan: So how is extremism precisely BAD?

Personally I consider religious bigots screaming that homosexuals are evil and should die to be bad. That's just one example of bad extremism...

Which is disturbing to me because, then, what is mainstream in your country is extreme to other industrialized countries.

Perhaps its not just a few extremists. Perhaps most "Americans" are really extremists with a few moderates. The World should then wake up and examine what the US is trying to achieve, very closely.

You're still with the logical fallacy that just because someone supports one of the policies you pointed out, that somehow they support all of them.

Or support any one of them all the time.

Since when is "well, everyone in the world believes X so we should believe X, or we're extremists" a good way to think?

After all, everyone in the world once believed that monarchy was the best form of government (especially the Europeans).

Personally I consider religious bigots screaming that homosexuals are evil and should die to be bad. That's just one example of bad extremism...

Can I get away with saying, shouting or ranting that the State ought to make Sodomy a criminal offense?

Can I get away with saying, shouting or ranting that the State ought to make Sodomy a criminal offense?
No, because I like sodomy, and I believe everyone should do it.

No, because I like sodomy, and I believe everyone should do it.

I'm asking Skinny - to seek some form of boundary as to what makes a thing extremism.
Obviously, just killing folks for sodomy is kinda... SICK.

I don't think anyone likes 'extremists'. The question becomes more blurry when you ask who extremists are. IMHO, I don't think any group on the original poster's list gives the world a good impression of us, except maybe for a very tiny bit of the intelligent design lobby. I don't see the harm in presenting intelligent design as an alternative theory in science classes. They give us alternative theories all the time and all they have to say is "this is just for thought." They're not saying it's the absolute truth.

That said, I don't like 'extremists' anywhere. And the best way to determine if someone is an extremist is, I think, to listen to Napoleon.

"There is no place in a fanatic's head through which reason can enter."

Basically, those who never change their mind on any issue would be suspect because real life is gray area most of the time, not black or white.

Do these things give bad impressions of the USA? No. They give bad impressions of people living in the USA. The US is severely fucked up right now, and the reason it is fucked up is because its residents are allowing it to be fucked up.

oh, I mis-read the title, I thought you wanted opinions from extremists......I came to answer........

Can I get away with saying, shouting or ranting that the State ought to make Sodomy a criminal offense?

I never said you couldn't. Although that does make you an extremist, and a probably a bigot to boot.

Hi to everyone!

There are some extreme elements in US society that is often very visible in your local news network, or newspapers or internet or blogosphere.

Many USAmericans will say that these elements are extremists. Not reflective of the opinions of the mainstream. Problem is the rest of us who get fed USAmerican newspaganda can't tell how mainstream or how extreme they really are.

This poll asks: how do these elements affect your perception of the USA?

GW Bush
Fundamentalist Christians
Evangelical Christians
Creationists/Intelligent Design movement
Supporters of Gun Rights
Groups against homosexuals
Groups in support of military torture
Anti-abortionists
Groups against embryonic stem cell research
Supporters of '03 Iraq invasion/continued occupation of Iraq

They are extremists to me. How much do they affect your view of the USA?
LMAO! Those aren't the "extremists." The extremists are the far lefties who want us to give up on everything except Social Welfare. :p

I never said you couldn't. Although that does make you an extremist, and a probably a bigot to boot.

Can I moderately oppose Sodomy?

Luckily I'm from the south of spain, where language is quite different from the center and north. We talk closer to the american spanish accent, thanks to god.

And by the other question, I know all that, and I can understand why it became in the name of the citizens and why is the only country to use word America in it's name, it was the first independent state in the whole continent. But in spanish I use a word "estadounidenses" that allows to no confusion, so when I first saw USians, seemed funny and useful.

Errrr, no

The Andaluz accent is nowhere close to our accent, the "z" is just...too "z"

The right translation of "estadounidense" seems to be "United Stater", not "USian", but it is being discussed

Can I moderately oppose Sodomy?

Define 'Moderately'.

LMAO! Those aren't the "extremists." The extremists are the far lefties who want us to give up on everything except Social Welfare. :p

Exhibit A of what I said in my post above.

Everyone has their own idea of extremists and more often than not, they don't like them.

LMAO! Those aren't the "extremists." The extremists are the far lefties who want us to give up on everything except Social Welfare. :p

Wow. More blanket generalisations Eut? Why not add something in there about 'Moslems' and get a hat-trick whilst you're at it?

Do these things give bad impressions of the USA? No. They give bad impressions of people living in the USA. The US is severely fucked up right now, and the reason it is fucked up is because its residents are allowing it to be fucked up.

Doesn't appear fucked up here in Virginia. Ever been to the US?

Define 'Moderately'.

I honestly don't know.

However, if I can oppose sodomy as an extremist, I think the possibility must exist that I can oppose sodomy moderately as well.

Therefore, I'm asking you.

I might make the same point about, say, gun-ownership.
If one says I oppose it as an extremist, then I think that person should tell me how I could oppose it as a moderate.

Wow. More blanket generalisations Eut? Why not add something in there about 'Moslems' and get a hat-trick whilst you're at it?
That's ok. The far lefties with their demented "politically correct" nonsense are doing quite enough of that with their "Awww! The poor, poor Muslims" apologetics.

I honestly don't know.

However, if I can oppose sodomy as an extremist, I think the possibility must exist that I can oppose sodomy moderately as well.

Therefore, I'm asking you.

I might make the same point about, say, gun-ownership.
If one says I oppose it as an extremist, then I think that person should tell me how I could oppose it as a moderate.

You can oppose it to any length that you wish. Extremist would be something akin to 'HOMOSEXUALS MUST DIE! NOT NATURAL! KILL THE FAGS!' whilst moderately opposing might be akin to 'Gay's can't marry, it's not natural. However, I don't want to kill them'.

It'd still make a bigot. Just not quite as violent or vocal a one.

That's ok. The far lefties with their demented "politically correct" nonsense are doing quite enough of that with their "Awww! The poor, poor Muslims" apologetics.

Look mate, can you actually make a point without vast generalisations and flaming? I'm not even sure why you're in this thread - you've not really said anything.

Why not try to make a statement and debate rationally without flaming? Like I'm doing with BogMarsh?

You can oppose it to any length that you wish. Extremist would be something akin to 'HOMOSEXUALS MUST DIE! NOT NATURAL! KILL THE FAGS!' whilst moderately opposing might be akin to 'Gay's can't marry, it's not natural. However, I don't want to kill them'.

It'd still make a bigot. Just not quite as violent or vocal a one.

OK. I'm a moderate bigot.
I can live with that. :)

( It's that weird thing about most Anglicans. We're all for justice - provided no one has to be killed for it. The list of folks I'd like to see DEAD is kinda... short. )

Look mate, can you actually make a point without vast generalisations and flaming? I'm not even sure why you're in this thread - you've not really said anything.

Why not try to make a statement and debate rationally without flaming? Like I'm doing with BogMarsh?
How, pray tell, is anything I've posted here a "flame?"

OK. I'm a moderate bigot.
I can live with that. :)

( It's that weird thing about most Anglicans. We're all for justice - provided no one has to be killed for it. The list of folks I'd like to see DEAD is kinda... short. )

Whilst I may not like that, at least you're not advocating death for homosexuals. Which is something, I suppose.

How, pray tell, is anything I've posted here a "flame?"

Calling 'Far Lefties' (Whoever they are) 'Demented' and attacking 'Muslim Apologetics (Again, no idea where they are) might just be a flame. Seriously, why not debate without lashing out and randomly calling people names and barnding entire groups (Who might not even exist) 'Demented'?

Whilst I may not like that, at least you're not advocating death for homosexuals. Which is something, I suppose.

Would you try running the same analysis about my opposition to gun ownership?

Would you try running the same analysis about my opposition to gun ownership?

What is your view on gun ownership?

What is your view on gun ownership?

Toss anyone who insists on bearing deadly weapons in public space, other than as a member of the Armed Forces or the Police, straight into the wacky bin.

Treat gun ownership as direct evidence of conspiracy to commit murder.

Zero Tolerance for the possession of deadly weapons.

Toss anyone who insists on bearing deadly weapons in public space, other than as a member of the Armed Forces or the Police, straight into the wacky bin.

Treat gun ownership as direct evidence of conspiracy to commit murder.

Zero Tolerance for the possession of deadly weapons.

So you're saying that Governments, who have committed more murders than all the civilians combined, should have a monopoly on it?

You believe that over 80 million people in the US alone are committing a "conspiracy to commit murder"?

And you consider the NRA extremist?

Toss anyone who insists on bearing deadly weapons in public space, other than as a member of the Armed Forces or the Police, straight into the wacky bin.

Treat gun ownership as direct evidence of conspiracy to commit murder.

Zero Tolerance for the possession of deadly weapons.

Yeah. That's also an extremist view. In fact, that's at the 'Extreme' edge of Extremism.

Yeah. That's also an extremist view. In fact, that's at the 'Extreme' edge of Extremism.

Ah :) I'm proud to be extreme on THAT one, actually.

Personally I consider religious bigots screaming that homosexuals are evil and should die to be bad. That's just one example of bad extremism...


I'm bisexual.

But my question has not been answered.

Toss anyone who insists on bearing deadly weapons in public space, other than as a member of the Armed Forces or the Police, straight into the wacky bin.

Treat gun ownership as direct evidence of conspiracy to commit murder.

Zero Tolerance for the possession of deadly weapons.

Ted Kennedys car has killed more people than my firearms. :D

To your assertation that people that want to carry deadly weapons in public space are crazy, I'm assuming you're talking about the people that carry handguns concealed, as most people don't walk around with rifles out in public (unless they're in a carrying case, transporting them to/from their vehicle). Those people that carry handguns concealed are not crazy, as usually there is a lengthy licensing process that must be done in order to get that priviledge (I know in CT, the licensing process includes a local, state, and federal criminal and mental background check). If you've crazy, your permit is denied (also, if you're crazy, you're not supposed to be able to own a firearm anyway.

On your view about gun ownership equalling conspiracy to commit murder, you don't look at the reasons people own firearms. Some people have firearms just for personal and home protection, but they're not conspiring to commit murder. Also, what about the hunters (shooting a deer isn't murder, and venison tastes great), the target shooters (who like to compete against other people in putting little round holes in paper from long range), and the collectors (many of whom never even shoot their collection, in fear of devaluing it)?

About your zero tolerance policy for deadly weapons, where does your list end? People can be killed with quite a lot of things, like baseball bats, rope, cars, paperweights, etc. Do you plan to ban all of those things as well?



In my not so professional medical opinion (after all, I'm not a doctor, although I almost played one in a school play once), you suffer from Hoplophobia.

*snip*About your zero tolerance policy for deadly weapons, where does your list end? People can be killed with quite a lot of things, like baseball bats, rope, cars, paperweights, etc. Do you plan to ban all of those things as well?*snip*

I am strongly against this view. A .357 magnum with hollow point bullets isn't made to be used to bat a ball, for setting up tents, to drive you to work, or to keep your bills from flying. It has a very specific purpose.

All this "guns don't kill people, people kill people" bullshit really annoys me. Of course many things kill people, motor vehicles being a salient culprit. But designed specifically to supereffective at popping lives? Fireweapon.

This is a "too-what-extent" kind of argument, my friend. "Americans" should be made to write learnt proper essays like in UK A-Levels rather than that multiple-choice excuse of an education system.

*Snip*

GW Bush
Fundamentalist Christians
Evangelical Christians
Creationists/Intelligent Design movement
Supporters of Gun Rights
Groups against homosexuals
Groups in support of military torture
Anti-abortionists
Groups against embryonic stem cell research
Supporters of '03 Iraq invasion/continued occupation of Iraq

They are extremists to me. How much do they affect your view of the USA?

Well I pretty much support, everything up there, is that bad, and if it is, give me a really good reason why, and if you think im wrong about this, chances are I think your wrong too.

I don't care.

The OP clearly has an anti-conservative slant, not suprising. The list in the OP pretty much has me written all over it.

And yes, we have a right, I repeat, a RIGHT to bear arms. That means GUNS. Yes, GUNS. Why? For hunting goblins inside your house at 3am, hunting deer, hunting, shooting targets, and whatsoever you legally decide to do.

<-Owner of the 2 most popular Evil black rifles in America.



:p

If everyone else thinks we are bad because we beleive differently...I'm not breaking a sweat.

I am strongly against this view. A .357 magnum with hollow point bullets isn't made to be used to bat a ball, for setting up tents, to drive you to work, or to keep your bills from flying. It has a very specific purpose.

All this "guns don't kill people, people kill people" bullshit really annoys me. Of course many things kill people, motor vehicles being a salient culprit. But designed specifically to supereffective at popping lives? Fireweapon.

This is a "too-what-extent" kind of argument, my friend. "Americans" should be made to write learnt proper essays like in UK A-Levels rather than that multiple-choice excuse of an education system.

You must be talking about public schools. The only thing I agree with you about.

BTW, if you think someone who carries a gun DAILY for protection is a homicidal maniac...you are wrong. My buddy AND his wife both carry "heat", and my buddy even has TWO with him. Neither have ever fired a shot or hurt anyone as a result, and that's how it supposed to be-it's there whether you need it or not. Like a fire extenguisher.

And his gun collection dwarfs mine :(. By several times.

I am strongly against this view. A .357 magnum with hollow point bullets isn't made to be used to bat a ball, for setting up tents, to drive you to work, or to keep your bills from flying. It has a very specific purpose.

All this "guns don't kill people, people kill people" bullshit really annoys me. Of course many things kill people, motor vehicles being a salient culprit. But designed specifically to supereffective at popping lives? Fireweapon.

This is a "too-what-extent" kind of argument, my friend. "Americans" should be made to write learnt proper essays like in UK A-Levels rather than that multiple-choice excuse of an education system.

The thing is, a firearm does NOTHING until its fire control mechanisms are manipulated. After all, it is an inanimate object. And yes, it may be effective at taking human life, but that is not its only purpose (as I have listed in my previous post). In fact, a knife, rock, etc may be more efficient than a firearm, because a firearm needs ammo to be effective, whereas a knife, rock, etc does not.

Whilst I may not like that, at least you're not advocating death for homosexuals. Which is something, I suppose.

Homosexuals are people, not animals. I can't say I support their lifestyle, since, well, my faith opposes it, but I'll be damned if someone decided to execute them over it.

The thing is, a firearm does NOTHING until its fire control mechanisms are manipulated. After all, it is an inanimate object. And yes, it may be effective at taking human life, but that is not its only purpose (as I have listed in my previous post). In fact, a knife, rock, etc may be more efficient than a firearm, because a firearm needs ammo to be effective, whereas a knife, rock, etc does not.

More people are murdered/assaulted/harmed/raped by people using fists, feet, bats, crowbars, etc than guns.

That is why a CCW gives you that extra ability to "Reach out and touch someone"-before they touch you. You do NOT want to mess with someone who is willing to kill you for your purse.

Homosexuals are people, not animals. I can't say I support their lifestyle, since, well, my faith opposes it, but I'll be damned if someone decided to execute them over it.
...mighty white of you there, sport.

<-Owner of the 2 most popular Evil black rifles in America.

You just need an M1A in a sage stock to complete the hat trick. :D




So do I. :(

Normally I wouldn't have voted for the joke option. But you just made yours so damn appealing to vote for...

This Groups against homosexuals is the only group I would find to be "Extremists" and even then, only if they want to hurt them.

You just need an M1A in a sage stock to complete the hat trick. :D




So do I. :(

Pffttt! An M1a is WAAY out of my pricerange. DSA fal is waay more close, more reliable, durable, and cheaper.

...mighty white of you there, sport.


I love the sinner but hate the sin.

Not that way, but you get the idea.

:p

Fundamentalist Christians
Evangelical Christians
Creationists/Intelligent Design movement
Supporters of Gun Rights
Groups against homosexuals
Groups in support of military torture
Anti-abortionists
Groups against embryonic stem cell research
??????????

How am i an extremist? How does it give America a bad name to have an opinion????

Hi to everyone!

There are some extreme elements in US society that is often very visible in your local news network, or newspapers or internet or blogosphere.

Many USAmericans will say that these elements are extremists. Not reflective of the opinions of the mainstream. Problem is the rest of us who get fed USAmerican newspaganda can't tell how mainstream or how extreme they really are.

This poll asks: how do these elements affect your perception of the USA?

GW Bush
Fundamentalist Christians
Evangelical Christians
Creationists/Intelligent Design movement
Supporters of Gun Rights
Groups against homosexuals
Groups in support of military torture
Anti-abortionists
Groups against embryonic stem cell research
Supporters of '03 Iraq invasion/continued occupation of Iraq

They are extremists to me. How much do they affect your view of the USA?

Despite living in the USA myself, I'm genuinely uncertain to what degree the things on your list are "extremist" or "mainstream." I'd like to think they're all extreme, but I'm not sure the facts would back me up. Personally, I disagree to at least some extent (in many cases, to a very great extent) with all the people and positions listed, and I know many people who feel similarly - but I also know many who don't. I think at this point, most of these issues could hardly be called either extreme or mainstream - they have too much support to be ignored, but too much opposition to be considered typical of Americans in general. We're kind of a divided country at the moment...

First of all, your list if fucking bullshit.

I agree with you that any extremists suck, but your list is just wrong for the most part.

end of story.

Fundamentalist Christians
Evangelical Christians
Creationists/Intelligent Design movement
Supporters of Gun Rights
Groups against homosexuals
Groups in support of military torture
Anti-abortionists
Groups against embryonic stem cell research
??????????

How am i an extremist? How does it give America a bad name to have an opinion????

Well, some (though not all) of those opinions, if made into law, would cause direct and demonstrable damage to others - or, for that matter, to the country as a whole. It can sometimes be rather hard for people who don't feel the same way to respect such opinions.

Supporters of Gun Rights
Hate to break it to you but the Bill of Rights gives us the right to own guns. So I wouldn't call that group extremist. There are some people who go overboard with it but there are also greenies who like to set fires.

Groups in support of military torture
It gets the job done and done quick. I'm not for the sexual abuse but a barking dog will scare without doing physical harm. Playing the tele-whosit soundtrack won't do any physical harm but after a while even I'd spill my guts just to get some peace and quiet.

Supporters of '03 Iraq invasion/continued occupation of Iraq
So we should have just let him keep up the mass murder? It's pretty common knowledge that he wasn't one of the good guys. He may not have been the threat we thought he was but he's still on trial in his own country for killing 100+ people.

You forgot our other half of the extremists...

Such as...

Communists
Socialists
Gun control advocates
Animal Rights Activists
Hippies
KKK
Neo Nazis
Etc...

Each annoying in thier own way, fortunantly most of them are fringe groups and are treated accordingly. The good thing is they are jeered at but never silenced, thanks to the 1st amendment! ;)

Hi to everyone!

There are some extreme elements in US society that is often very visible in your local news network, or newspapers or internet or blogosphere.

Many USAmericans will say that these elements are extremists. Not reflective of the opinions of the mainstream. Problem is the rest of us who get fed USAmerican newspaganda can't tell how mainstream or how extreme they really are.

This poll asks: how do these elements affect your perception of the USA?

GW Bush
Fundamentalist Christians
Evangelical Christians
Creationists/Intelligent Design movement
Supporters of Gun Rights
Groups against homosexuals
Groups in support of military torture
Anti-abortionists
Groups against embryonic stem cell research
Supporters of '03 Iraq invasion/continued occupation of Iraq

They are extremists to me. How much do they affect your view of the USA?

The groups you are speaking of aren't all extreme as you say. Anti-abortionists, include extreme members and people of extreme beliefs, but as a whole are only for the rights for the unborn child. Creationists/Intelligent Design movement, what is extreme about this, why didn't you list Catholics, Baptists, and every other religion known to man? This just goes about a few of them, but I'm tired...next time though consider both sides of the issue.

Well, some (though not all) of those opinions, if made into law, would cause direct and demonstrable damage to others - or, for that matter, to the country as a whole. It can sometimes be rather hard for people who don't feel the same way to respect such opinions.

Thanks for your posts.

I hope I have emphasized a point that non-"Americans" often have no idea what your mainstream is, and whether those elements I listed can be considered as extremists or not. Maybe not even "Americans" themselves.

Although the USA is powerful now, brute power and soft cultural influence must go hand in hand to allow "Americans" to enjoy their way of life into the future. The world is of course quite a divided political entity with pro-US, neutral and anti-US nations in constant bickering.

Unfortunately, the increasing popularity of these elements in the USA which I consider extreme has completely soured the image of your country. Not just in the eyes of anti-US states, but also fellow democratic, industrialized nations. If this image persists, the USA will have very few "real" friends. Of course you can say you don't need it, you have the money and weapons, you can fight two fronts at the same time.

But slowly the World turns. The Roman Empire is no more. The British Empire is no more. Let me remind you the Chinese used to think that they were the Middle Kingdom. Until foreign powers, whom they considered as gizmo-crazy barbarians, cooperated to rip apart their country. The USA is not exempt from collapse by the Mandate of Heaven.

Don't piss us off just because you are big. Small changes can have large effects.

They are extremists to me.Same to me. I was about to object to the pro-gun crowd, but then, it's basically the NRA, and that org is .. Unhinged, to say the least.How much do they affect your view of the USA?A great deal, and most definitly not in a very positive way. Seems like the USians want a return to the darkages.

You forgot our other half of the extremists...

Such as...

Communists
Socialists
Gun control advocates
Animal Rights Activists
Hippies
KKK
Neo Nazis
Etc...

Each annoying in thier own way, fortunantly most of them are fringe groups and are treated accordingly. The good thing is they are jeered at but never silenced, thanks to the 1st amendment! ;)

I definitely agree these are also extremists. But I have not seen as much airtime on these elements. Do you think non-"Americans" will mistake these elements for the mainstream? I certainly consider all these very niche.

I definitely agree these are also extremists. But I have not seen as much airtime on these elements. Do you think non-"Americans" will mistake these elements for the mainstream? I certainly consider all these very niche.

Some are mainstream, such as the gun control groups and the socialists. While others get as much attention as some of the groups you mentioned. Anyhow, what is seen is who gets the most air-time but do not represent the overall opinion.

I definitely agree these are also extremists. But I have not seen as much airtime on these elements. Do you think non-"Americans" will mistake these elements for the mainstream? I certainly consider all these very niche.

Of the things on that list, the only ones that seem to at least this token US Midwesterner to be anything but really teensy weensy niche groups are gun control activists and animal rights activists - although the latter is mostly represented in the media by PETA, which is unambiguously extremist and considered to be somewhat ridiculous by pretty much everyone who's not a member. One could make an argument for socialists being something other than a niche group, but only if you include people with only vaguely socialist leanings (e.g. "universal health care is a nice idea") under that heading.

Certainly nothing on that list other than gun control supporters seems remotely to rival anything on your earlier list as far as sheer numbers are concerned. (Incidentally, I'm thinking here of people who want things like better background checks, not people who support banning the sale of firearms or anything like that. Those latter are decidedly a niche group.)

Unfortunately, the increasing popularity of these elements in the USA which I consider extreme has completely soured the image of your country. Not just in the eyes of anti-US states, but also fellow democratic, industrialized nations. If this image persists, the USA will have very few "real" friends. Of course you can say you don't need it, you have the money and weapons, you can fight two fronts at the same time..

Heh. I, for one, am highly unlikely to say anything of the sort. :)

Truth be told, though, I'm unsure that the popularity of those views really is increasing overall. Heck, there's no question that support for Bush and the Iraq war are withering - our commander in chief's approval ratings have become a favorite topic for mockery, and the majority of Americans at this point seem to be fairly convinced that the man is profoundly incompetent. (Waging interminable wars and woefully mismanaging natural disasters can do that - go figure!) Whether support for some of the conservative platforms will follow suit remains to be seen...

I live in the U.S., and I think groups against embryonic stem cell research, G. W. Bush, fundamentalist Christians, evangelical Christians, creationists/intelligent design movement, and anti-abortionists all lower the value of the United States. Stupid extremists.

I live in the U.S., and I think groups against embryonic stem cell research, G. W. Bush, fundamentalist Christians, evangelical Christians, creationists/intelligent design movement, and anti-abortionists all lower the value of the United States. Stupid extremists.

No arguement here. Before I launch off, Khan feel free to send me a shout on AIM if you wish to chat further on this.

I live in the U.S., and I think groups against embryonic stem cell research, G. W. Bush, fundamentalist Christians, evangelical Christians, creationists/intelligent design movement, and anti-abortionists all lower the value of the United States. Stupid extremists.

And what about the folks that banned smoking in my homestate? Or the food police? Or the folks that want to ban guns? Or the people who want to increase eduaction speding in MN even though half the budget is already going to public schools? Or the idiots who pushed the stupid stadium bill and are now forcing the people of Hennepin county to pay for it? Or the ELF running around burning cars and houses still under construction?

The smoking ban was only the first step. The next thing they'll try to take out is fast food. They'll be standing on the corner with tazers hooked up to car batteries shoving health food at you and saying, "You'll eat it, and you'll like it!"

whats so wrong with owning a fucking gun, for fucks sake, omg hes gonna go shoot people, you know, just cuz someone doesnt have a gun doenst mean they arent gonna kill people. If you want someone dead and didnt have a gun, then you'd use a knife, or and axe, or a screwdriver. want to ban all of those? fine, then people will go back to using sticks and stones, then when you ban that, they'll go use they're bare hands...

And what about the folks that banned smoking in my homestate? Or the food police? Or the folks that want to ban guns? Or the people who want to increase eduaction speding in MN even though half the budget is already going to public schools? Or the idiots who pushed the stupid stadium bill and are now forcing the people of Hennepin county to pay for it? Or the ELF running around burning cars and houses still under construction?

The smoking ban was only the first step. The next thing they'll try to take out is fast food. They'll be standing on the corner with tazers hooked up to car batteries shoving health food at you and saying, "You'll eat it, and you'll like it!"


right man, I'd also like to point out that it was the fucking Nazi party who invented the idea that smoking cause cancer, and was hitlers nazi germany first nation to have smoking regulations. much like the ones in america. you ban smoking sure, then your gonna have a situation like the prohibition on alcohol. no one will listen,

right man, I'd also like to point out that it was the fucking Nazi party who invented the idea that smoking cause cancer, and was hitlers nazi germany first nation to have smoking regulations. much like the ones in america. you ban smoking sure, then your gonna have a situation like the prohibition on alcohol. no one will listen,

We already had the prohibition of alcohol during the Hoover administration. It didn't work, though, because the Mafia and bootleggers used it to profit from by selling alcohol. Even Hoover drank, and a senator had a brewery in his back yard.

and was hitlers nazi germany first nation to have smoking regulations

The first one was the Catholic church back when tobacco was discovered by the West. Mexico used to ban smoking right at the time of the US/Mexico war.

Errrr, no

The Andaluz accent is nowhere close to our accent, the "z" is just...too "z"

The right translation of "estadounidense" seems to be "United Stater", not "USian", but it is being discussed


Your should be right normally, but the andalusian have two modes, with z and with s, and the last one in mine, and it was just a comparative, my accent (from Cadiz, don't know if you know) is closer to south american one than to north spain spanish. For me "z" users sounds like farmers talkers.

whats so wrong with owning a fucking gun, for fucks sake, omg hes gonna go shoot people, you know, just cuz someone doesnt have a gun doenst mean they arent gonna kill people. If you want someone dead and didnt have a gun, then you'd use a knife, or and axe, or a screwdriver. want to ban all of those? fine, then people will go back to using sticks and stones, then when you ban that, they'll go use they're bare hands...


I agree. There is nothing wrong with owning a gun!

I live in the U.S., and I think groups against embryonic stem cell research, G. W. Bush, fundamentalist Christians, evangelical Christians, creationists/intelligent design movement, and anti-abortionists all lower the value of the United States. Stupid extremists.


Why? You can't say they lower the value unless you give a valid reason why.

Why? You can't say they lower the value unless you give a valid reason why.
Well he can, but it just leads people to discount his argument and pity him.

Why? You can't say they lower the value unless you give a valid reason why.


Because in the rest of the world some or all of this opinions are worse and worse considered. And in general, US is worse viewed in the rest of the world. (Pew research center, I'm sorry, I read it in the newspaper so I cannot give a link)

Well he can, but it just leads people to discount his argument and pity him.



I would rather give him a chance to explain before I brush him off.

I think there are extremists in every country on this planet, some being a problem others not so much.
What I think Europeans and others perceive as scary is the attention given to extremists in the USA, the amount of influence they seem to have. In most European countries, religious fanatics are a fringe group with no influence on politics, so the influence religion has on politics in the USA seems strange to say the least.
Also, European societies have for the most part moved on from the idea of an authoritative government, from draconic punishments and a general threatening behaviour between nations. For a European looking at the US today is like looking at social structures in Europe 100 years ago. It is difficult to comprehend.

Really, I think the term "extremist" is not only a vague and opinionated word, it is widely overused. Politics was really one of the first "Entertainment" industries, dating back to ancient greece. It's the ultimate circus because every action effects you. Today, the flux of the word "extremist" reflects both a desire by our media to seek the farthest finge (with the desire to frighten), as well as political trends, that it their own fear, prefer you to believe people of other opinions represent a mortal threat to you.

I dont see the rationale in a women in Kansas being frightened by a group of ten people in Arizona. The aforementioned woman knows of their existence only because a news crew ("With broodingly concerned eyes and tough questions aplenty!") showed them to her.

I think the same goes for the international audience. Except without the benifit of living here, they see more "extremism" than normal voting citizens, because normal citizens are boring to watch on TV. Whereas extremists cause you watch them like a train wreck.

Moderate powers have far more (and more permanent) influence in American politics than a briskly assembled posse of wierdos. However I will say its not good to say what works for one country will work for another. Gun rights for example, are not negotiable as long as they are guarenteed by the constitution. This can be changed, but its unlikely that it will be.

SNIP



*shrug* focus on being a good little boy - or get used to the nick.

*shrug* focus on being a good little boy - or get used to the nick.

?

?


The chap I replied to wanted to assert his raht to arms.
Good little boys don't need 'em.
And bad little boys need to be kept locked up.

The chap I replied to wanted to assert his raht to arms.
Good little boys don't need 'em.
And bad little boys need to be kept locked up.

Isnt the idea of a right, to assert it? If he is a citizen where arms are protected as a right, he is free to do so. America(US) is one such place.

Isnt the idea of a right, to assert it? If he is a citizen where arms are protected as a right, he is free to do so. America(US) is one such place.

Despite claims to the contrary, there is no such a thing as a right that cannot be alienated away...

True enough. However, its far easier to alienate a right that is not exercised. By exercising his right to bear arms, would you say he is defending it?

True enough. However, its far easier to alienate a right that is not exercised. By exercising his right to bear arms, would you say he is defending it?

Defending something that should not be defended is no virtue.
Every word uttered in defence of such a right is an unvirtuous act in itself.

Defending something that should not be defended is no virtue.
Every word uttered in defence of such a right is an unvirtuous act in itself.
In your opinion. In my opinion socialized medicine shouldn't be defended, but that's for another thread. Basically, who are you to tell me I can't go out to the target range and test my skills? If my goverment ever does go truly extreme (to the right or left) I'll need those skills to defend myself. If a crazed lunatic bursts in with a knife, I'll need to defend myself while waiting for the cops to show up. What's wrong with a guy like me owning weapons? (Ok my family owns them, but I practice on them and hope to buy a rifle of my own soon.) Marksmanship is one of my best skills, I've never shot another living being or even had one in the crosshairs. What objection could you possibly have?

*shrug* focus on being a good little boy - or get used to the nick.

I tell you what. If you think that guns don't provide a useful and practical purpose, why don't you come to my next firearms class, and tell the women in the class why they should go about unarmed and let their ex-boyfriends/ex-husbands beat, stalk, rape, and terrorize them, and rely only on the non-existent protection of a "protective order" that actually doubles their chance of being killed (if they remain unarmed after obtaining the order).

None of the women I've trained who carry a gun have had even a single incident of harassment or stalking, let alone any incidents of violence since they began carrying.

None.

Your should be right normally, but the andalusian have two modes, with z and with s, and the last one in mine, and it was just a comparative, my accent (from Cadiz, don't know if you know) is closer to south american one than to north spain spanish. For me "z" users sounds like farmers talkers.

Ohhh, Cadiz people speak nicely indeed. Nice to know you.

I tell you what. If you think that guns don't provide a useful and practical purpose, why don't you come to my next firearms class, and tell the women in the class why they should go about unarmed and let their ex-boyfriends/ex-husbands beat, stalk, rape, and terrorize them, and rely only on the non-existent protection of a "protective order" that actually doubles their chance of being killed (if they remain unarmed after obtaining the order).

None of the women I've trained who carry a gun have had even a single incident of harassment or stalking, let alone any incidents of violence since they began carrying.

None.

Yeah. Y'see, I have this rock, and ever since I've carried it I've never been bothered by Tigers! This shit really works, y'know.

I wonder if the rest of the world thought that "Ben Franklin" and "Thomas Jefferson" where extremist ? Actually I shouldnt wonder because we know they did. Our country was FOUNDED by " extremist " So is it ant wonder we now have " extremist " living in our midst ? Aside from the fact " extremist " is a very subjective term..you could just as well say " Do republicans make the US look bad " Or Do liberals make the US look bad ..or "Do Democrats make the US look bad " And you will find groups that consider all of those groups " extremist " .

I would say that the fact we tolerate what others think as "extremist" instead of shooting them or putting them in jail or a concentration camp is a good thing , is it not ?
Or are you willing to sit around and wait for someone to label YOUR views " extremist and include you in a poll ? Or just arrest you and stick you in a cell ?

At one time Democracy and free speech were considered not only "extremist " but subversive and still are in some countries.

What do you think the Chinese consider "Extremist " ? Or the North Koreans ?

Yeah. Y'see, I have this rock, and ever since I've carried it I've never been bothered by Tigers! This shit really works, y'know.

Yes, women in the UK are beaten to death by their husbands and boyfriends as well. Most of them while waiting for the police to show up after calling them.

You know how it is with police response time - it takes less time to beat someone to death than it takes to drive from the local police station to someone's house.

Yes, women in the UK are beaten to death by their husbands and boyfriends as well. Most of them while waiting for the police to show up after calling them.

You know how it is with police response time - it takes less time to beat someone to death than it takes to drive from the local police station to someone's house.

Thats why guns were invented . The police are good for after the fact clean up and general note taking but have little value durring an assault . unless of course it takes place in a police station or we assign a police officer to every home .

*shrug* focus on being a good little boy - or get used to the nick.

Since I've never commited a crime, I'd have to say that I'm good. Also, I'm 6'3" and 32 years old, so I don't think I qualify for the title, "little boy".

The chap I replied to wanted to assert his raht to arms.
Good little boys don't need 'em.
And bad little boys need to be kept locked up.

There's a difference between needing a firearm and wanting a firearm. It just so happens that after I get used to my AR-15, I might be interested in trying to compete in some target matches. Also, once I get familiar enough with my rifle, I'm considering picking up a bolt action hunting rifle or pump shotgun, as I love the taste of properly prepared venison (AR-15s are too small a caliber to hunt deer with in CT).

Yeah. Y'see, I have this rock, and ever since I've carried it I've never been bothered by Tigers! This shit really works, y'know.
Sir, I want to buy this rock of yours!