NationStates Jolt Archive

In your opinion what do you think of this? Will medical science override the final barrier and stop death? Will people be able to live forever? And if so what would be the consequences?

Of course not.

"That is not dead, which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons, even death will die!"


Wurd, I know it doesn't apply, but take heed mere mortal! FOR CTHULU LIES SLEEPING!!!!!!

It's not totally impossible, I'll say that.

For example, in theory, trees can live forever so long as conditions are right and they have enough food. Now, all of our cells have something in them called a 'telomere' and while biologists don't know exactly how it works, it seems that every time one of your cells divides, the telomere in each one gets shortened. Think of it as like a fuse and when it reaches the end, your cells no longer divide and hence, old age. If we could find some way to make our telomeres NOT shorten with each cell division, that could be the key to eternal life.

hmm possible i suppose. highly unlikely mind.

not impossible, but death needs to be here.

If there was no death, we'd overpopulate the earth, and since death would no longer apply, there would be absolutely no way to stop or shorten the population.

No. Biological life contains thousands of in-built limitations to ensure that Death occurs, as Death is essential to evolution. It would be a nigh-impossible task to get rid of all these limitations. And even it were achieved, it would only protect you against natural death, I'm sure people would still fall off things or get murdered or whatever.

death will always be a part of life

Just imagine if Stalin or Mao actually lasted longer than they did already. :eek:

Probably. Is it a good idea? Maybe.

No, they can only boost the human life span so much, or simply put them in hibernation.

I've heard once that dying is sort of genetical - when there's no illnesses to kill you your own body starts distoying you ítself. So, in theory if the killing genes could be found and altered (don't ask me how, I obviously don't understand anything about DNA) maybe we just could live till cancer kills you

yes. Once quantum computing becomes widespread and cheap and we have fully mapped and understood the workings of the human brain, we will be able to use a variety of scanning methods to convert our organic conciousness into a synthetic one. The death of the organic body will still be unavoidable, but the conciousness will not die with it.

That is of course, assuming that all we are is organic matter and energy transmissions through organic matter, but that is another discussion entirely.

I think it might be possible to expand the life-time of a human being by as much as centuries, but serious genetic reworking and incredible advances in medical science would have to be required.

The serious issue would than be (once the process of aging has been slowed), who gets to live the longest? Probably only the wealthiest of wealthy would have the access to that kind of medicine. This would probably firmly create a very very powerful longlasting kind of aristocracy, permanently creating a segregated society.

In theory perhaps. But in reality, no. People must die. Its the way nature works, because if people don't die, the Earth will overpopulate and it will meet its own demise.

Without Death, Life will become meaningless.

Oooh, a materialist :)

not necessarily - maybe I believe that the act of utilising a computing medium (be it flesh or something else) for the computation of conciousness automatically makes it more than material; infact makes it inherantly spiritual. Flesh doesn't deserve exclusivity on transcending the material world.

Hmmm, you might be right about that. But I'm still wondering that in any kind of "transfer" of that magnitude (we're talking memories, feelings, one's entire personality, logical reasoning, passions, etc) we might lose at least part of our humanity.

Or if it worked; just imagine waking up and not having a body around you, (almost like the unfortunate soldier in metallica's "one" video, but more extreme even), no sensory perceptions, just the realisation that you still are. Like existing in some limbo....

Would not the mere transition and consequent realisation induce madness?

Hmmm, you might be right about that. But I'm still wondering that in any kind of "transfer" of that magnitude (we're talking memories, feelings, one's entire personality, logical reasoning, passions, etc) we might lose at least part of our humanity.

Or if it worked; just imagine waking up and not having a body around you, (almost like the unfortunate soldier in metallica's "one" video, but more extreme even), no sensory perceptions, just the realisation that you still are. Like existing in some limbo....

Would not the mere transition and consequent realisation induce madness?

Well, presumably there would also be the capability to simulate a reality (including body simalcrum) for the newly-transferred to inhabit, so it won't be too much of a jolt. Over time these concessions to the old "reality" will presumably be broken down as we become more at home with our new state. As for madness... I think it'll depend on the person, and their mental preparedness for the change. I know I'd personally rather choose to live for eternity as a machine, with the capability for almost infinite improvement and development, than die as a lowly base-level human after only a century (or less) of life. :p

"That is not dead, which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons, even death will die!"


Wurd, I know it doesn't apply, but take heed mere mortal! FOR CTHULU LIES SLEEPING!!!!!!

nitpick:

That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange æons, even death may (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu) die.

and

ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming

yes. Once quantum computing becomes widespread and cheap and we have fully mapped and understood the workings of the human brain, we will be able to use a variety of scanning methods to convert our organic conciousness into a synthetic one. The death of the organic body will still be unavoidable, but the conciousness will not die with it.

Oh goody, a copy of me will live forever.

Everything with a begining has an end. The only things certain in life is death.

if science was able to advance for another 1000 to 2000 years, Id say it may be possible. However something horrible will most likely happen to the world, leaving us all dead so meh.

Not if the souless minions of orthodoxy have anything to say about it.

Eternal life would suck. Really, really hard.

Beyond that, the universe will indeed end, either as a tiny pinprick of matter, with infinite mass, but zero volume, or complete entropy. Even if you cannot die of natural causes, the end of the universe will still smite thee.

That would suck...living for no purpose other than to keep living...overpopulation would lead to famine and diseases would spread far more quickly...finite resources would disappear...would life be worth living to never die?

It'll never happen. And even if it does, think about it. We have too many people in the world as it is. What'll happen when we stop dying at a regular rate?

Beyond that, the universe will indeed end, either as a tiny pinprick of matter, with infinite mass, but zero volume, or complete entropy. Even if you cannot die of natural causes, the end of the universe will still smite thee.

If we're advanced enough to live forever, we will definitely be able to escape to a new universe or create a new one...9 billion years of applied research should definitely produce something of benefit. If we can escape, the less advanced peoples of the new universe might call us God...

It'll never happen. And even if it does, think about it. We have too many people in the world as it is. What'll happen when we stop dying at a regular rate?

if we transfer our minds into computers (yuh!, although a long way off and it may not be possible) which would be stored in android bodies we wouldnt be able to have sex and so there wouldnt be as much of an over population problem.

That would suck...living for no purpose other than to keep living...overpopulation would lead to famine and diseases would spread far more quickly...finite resources would disappear...would life be worth living to never die?
Here's the problem I have with the whole finite resources disapearing thing: where do they go? Do you think that just because you eat some food the matter that made it up just went poof? I know that the planet isn't a closed system and that we lose some atmosphere to space all the time and that what we lose gets replaced with erruptions and all that crap but matter is matter. After every reaction you still have the same amount you started with in a different arrangement!

I'm not saying life wouldn't suck, eveyrhting else about overpopulation and famine and suffering would happen if nobody ever died ever, but even with 6 billion (with a B!) people on this lump of iron we still only have developed about 5% (or less) of the planets habitable surface. That includes buildings, roads, farms, and just about anything else that we stick in the dirt. So for the overpopulation thing to happen we'd need a frickin' long time and tons more people.

Now, in the interest of further derailing this thread:
"Super Shoe 2: Revenge of Los Rebok" Discuss it.

If we're advanced enough to live forever, we will definitely be able to escape to a new universe or create a new one...9 billion years of applied research should definitely produce something of benefit. If we can escape, the less advanced peoples of the new universe might call us God...

hmmm, you would need new minds though, fresh ideas, that may not be possible with the same people working on the same problems.

...which would be stored in android bodies ...
Why can't androids have sex? Look at Data, he's an android, though fictitious, and he had sex.

hmmm, you would need new minds though, fresh ideas, that may not be possible with the same people working on the same problems.

That's true; it would be vital that population and economic growth continue in order to keep technology advancing. Of course, that would require some pretty strict population management to keep it from getting out of control with eons-long lifespans. Without that growth, technology stagnates and we would enter another Dark Age.

Perhaps eternal life would be awarded rather than just freely available; ordinary people might only get a century or two while those that distinguish themselves in certain fields get access to eternal life, sort of like a futuristic Nobel Prize or something similar.

if we transfer our minds into computers (yuh!, although a long way off and it may not be possible) which would be stored in android bodies we wouldnt be able to have sex and so there wouldnt be as much of an over population problem.

...and what part of "no sex" do you think is a good thing?

Why can't androids have sex? Look at Data, he's an android, though fictitious, and he had sex.

yes thats what i was thinking but could he produce sperm or could he just have sex? how would the sperm be kept alive, remember he doesnt need food.

yes thats what i was thinking but could he produce sperm or could he just have sex? how would the sperm be kept alive, remember he doesnt need food.
He built his child. I don't think he can impregnate anyone. I suppose reproduction would have to occur by parental units building their child from parts. Weird.

yes. Once quantum computing becomes widespread and cheap and we have fully mapped and understood the workings of the human brain, we will be able to use a variety of scanning methods to convert our organic conciousness into a synthetic one. The death of the organic body will still be unavoidable, but the conciousness will not die with it.

The Rise of the Cybermen!

That's true; it would be vital that population and economic growth continue in order to keep technology advancing. Of course, that would require some pretty strict population management to keep it from getting out of control with eons-long lifespans. Without that growth, technology stagnates and we would enter another Dark Age.

Perhaps eternal life would be awarded rather than just freely available; ordinary people might only get a century or two while those that distinguish themselves in certain fields get access to eternal life, sort of like a futuristic Nobel Prize or something similar.

hmmm, it still produces an un-equal balance between haves and have nots, its can also be hard to determine what a valuable contribution to society is. maybe a huge project could be initialized at great expense to allow everyone to have their minds stored in a computer network, new minds could be created in that network who could be rewarded human or android forms after a certain amount of time (considering that at this stage we would have colonized other planets so the increase in numbers brought about by this waiting list could be dispersed). nearly everyone would get to live forever.

The Rise of the Cybermen!
Borg!! Finally!! Something to look foward to!!!

hmmm, it still produces an un-equal balance between haves and have nots, its can also be hard to determine what a valuable contribution to society is. maybe a huge project could be initialized at great expense to allow everyone to have their minds stored in a computer network, new minds could be created in that network who could be rewarded human or android forms after a certain amount of time (considering that at this stage we would have colonized other planets so the increase in numbers brought about by this waiting list could be dispersed). nearly everyone would get to live forever.

I think the best way to do it would be to give people the option of storing themselves in the computer as a way to avert death, and then if they so desire they can be put back in to a physical form to live another life or they can remain in the computer. Those living in the computer would exist in a virtual reality in which they would have physical forms and could interact with the universe created by the computer; they would have total freedom to decide whether to live or remain in VR.

The Matrioshka Brain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrioshka_brain) is a perfect example of how this could be done.

Borg!! Finally!! Something to look foward to!!!

My Doctor Who pwns your Star Trek.

alls i gotta say is....


DMX



that is the answer.

if we transfer our minds into computers (yuh!, although a long way off and it may not be possible) which would be stored in android bodies we wouldnt be able to have sex and so there wouldnt be as much of an over population problem.
I'd hate that even more. It'd just be a copy and not me specifically.

I'd hate that even more. It'd just be a copy and not me specifically.But what is "you"? If it possesses your memories, experiences, interests, skills, aspirations, and personality, as well as anything else that creates one's essence of being; is the copy really that bad? It sounds to me like a form of reincarnation only with full awareness of one's past.

Could it be done? Yes. Should it be done? No.

But what is "you"? If it possesses your memories, experiences, interests, skills, aspirations, and personality, as well as anything else that creates one's essence of being; is the copy really that bad? It sounds to me like a form of reincarnation only with full awareness of one's past.
But would it have my soul? Or my penis?

Just imagine if Stalin or Mao actually lasted longer than they did already. :eek:


Well, if we cure death, people like Stalin and Mao wouldn't matter, would they? I mean, it's not like they could kill anyone.