NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm sick of intellectuals sitting in their McHappy ivory tower. Believing that the power of reason will somehow spread like wildfire through the populace simply because it is "rational" or "true".

Let me tell you a sobering fact. All this talk about natural selection has underemphasized an important aspect of adaptation. When we say "environment", it's not just about the wild animals that love human meat. Or the occasional earthquake. Or volcanic eruption.

That "environment" includes other Homo sapiens. That's right my friends. The people surrounding you can literally be the death of you. And throughout human history and pre-history, they certainly have been the death of millions of their fellows.

Never underestimate the power of social forces. You'd think that a cult which disbelieves in gravity and constantly stage skyscraper plunges would definitely go extinct. Wrong. If they have the right kind of social message, the right approach in making tons of babies born into that sick cult of theirs, they can keep dying and still have more young anti-gravitationalists ready to sacrifice themselves for their cult leader, or ideology or insert your God here.

Wake up. So called "intellectuals". Think that politics is below you because it is so entangled? Think that you can isolate yourself from the stupid masses, 'cos well, they are irrelevant - the state pays your grants, so smart people in high places will understand why you're doing your research right?

Big mistake. If you are an intellectual, a science-o-phile, a technocrat go out there and make yourself heard! Join committees, social networks, talk with the regular guys on the street. Engage them! Excite them! Make speeches! Accept positions of political responsibilities! You MUST because that is our responsibility to the society. Unless you prefer to see the world cycle back into its pre-scientific spiritualistic nightmare-mush that it once was.

And can still be, my friend. DON'T let that happen. Be proactive.

...

Ummm.


Okay?


Seriously, whats your point here? Are you specifically against intellectuals, or a certian subgrouping of them? Your OP is rather confusing.

I'm thinking he's on about intellectuals who talk or think so much that they never ever actually do anything.

Then again - who is to know what he means? :confused:

I can't go out and do anything because then I can't sit in my armchair, drink brandy, and be haughty.

I really don't think we have enough Ivory Tower types on this forum to necessitate an open letter.. but I guess it can't hurt..

anger. managment.

and a little bit of intelligence.

I'm thinking he's on about intellectuals who talk or think so much that they never ever actually do anything.

Then again - who is to know what he means? :confused:

Look at them evangelicals singing and dancing, and waving their hands and making extensive social networks and converting millions to their cause. Just look! Does that have a shred of connection with their ACTUAL religious principles? Does all that passion and youth vigor and creativity and poetic energy have anything to do with their dusty holy book of vengeance? Zippety-doo.

We should have more scientific communicators and filmmakers and singers, writers, poets, sculptors... Everyone is welcome! We must make Science into a popular social movement, because Science is not just a bag of dry facts lying in a corner of an abandoned library. Science is not just a specific method of finding out a specific thing. It is about People! You and me, my friends! A social endeavor.

I'm arguing that just because it is true doesn't mean it will automatically become popular. And though popularity sounds like a dirty word to a geek, it is something we must have to effect social impact. Staying in isolated, tiny inner circles will not promote the longevity of the scientific social endeavor.

anger. managment.

and a little bit of intelligence.

Fine, I agree you are calmer and smarter than me.

But do you have any comments about my idea? Some thoughts, my friend!

Look at them evangelicals singing and dancing, and waving their hands and making extensive social networks and converting millions to their cause. Just look! Does that have a shred of connection with their ACTUAL religious principles? Does all that passion and youth vigor and creativity and poetic energy have anything to do with their dusty holy book of vengeance? Zippety-doo.

We should have more scientific communicators and filmmakers and singers, writers, poets, sculptors... Everyone is welcome! We must make Science into a popular social movement, because Science is not just a bag of dry facts lying in a corner of an abandoned library. Science is not just a specific method of finding out a specific thing. It is about People! You and me, my friends! A social endeavor.

I'm arguing that just because it is true doesn't mean it will automatically become popular. And though popularity sounds like a dirty word to a geek, it is something we must have to effect social impact. Staying in isolated, tiny inner circles will not promote the longevity of the scientific social endeavor.


*grin*
They got God on their side... not rationality.

Fine, I agree you are calmer and smarter than me.

But do you have any comments about my idea? Some thoughts, my friend!
Most other people are stupid. Supid and selfish for that matter.

It is probable best to ignore them in the end.

Most other people are stupid. Supid and selfish for that matter.

It is probable best to ignore them in the end.

You have considered and rejected manipulation?

tried it for a while, got bored, moved on to outright cynicism and rejection of the rest of humanity. People doing what I wanted all the time got old.

tried it for a while, got bored, moved on to outright cynicism and rejection of the rest of humanity. People doing what I wanted all the time got old.

You could have settled for 50%. Toin-coss and all.

You could have settled for 50%. Toin-coss and all.
too much of two face from batman for me.

Now its just being underhandidly sarcastic to people and drunk, this seems to work.

Never underestimate the power of social forces. You'd think that a cult which disbelieves in gravity and constantly stage skyscraper plunges would definitely go extinct. Wrong.
Hmmm...you may have a point. But I have a solution - make them extinct.

The Forces of Reason must conquer the planet and extinguish all opposition!

*waves arms about madly*

We should have more scientific communicators and filmmakers and singers, writers, poets, sculptors... Everyone is welcome! We must make Science into a popular social movement, because Science is not just a bag of dry facts lying in a corner of an abandoned library. Science is not just a specific method of finding out a specific thing. It is about People! You and me, my friends! A social endeavor.


Uh, society is 'scientific', its another word for secular I believe. And a scientific social movement? Humanism. I thought anybody with a good knwoledge of worldviews would know that

*looks to the rest of the people in the room who nod their heads*:rolleyes:

Uh, society is 'scientific', its another word for secular I believe. And a scientific social movement? Humanism. I thought anybody with a good knwoledge of worldviews would know that

*looks to the rest of the people in the room who nod their heads*:rolleyes:
if society is so scientific and secular, why is the only world power ruled by an evangelist?

if society is so scientific and secular, why is the only world power ruled by an evangelist?
Let's change it to "civilised society is scientific and secular".

Let's change it to "civilised society is scientific and secular".

Indeed!

And I appreciate everyone who goes out and makes Science comprehensible, interesting and exciting for the regular folks, including myself.

I especially thank the wonderful country of Canada for making so many interesting scientific documentaries to watch and stimulate our minds! Kudos to BBC and Discovery Channel as well!

I appreciate all those scientists who go out and connect with regular folks, to use the simplest clearest language to explain difficult convoluted concepts in this messy Universe of ours. Who take time off to talk to us. To contribute their time and effort to society. All those who are not shy to speak the truth when confronted by policies that are inspired by spiritual moralistic mush. You GO dudes!

Thank you thank you thank you. If not for people like you, I would have gone mad a long time ago. You make me believe humanity has a future!

Let's change it to "civilised society is scientific and secular".
don't be sarcastic. :D

too much of two face from batman for me.

Now its just being underhandidly sarcastic to people and drunk, this seems to work.


Ohh I like that perhaps I can try the ohh heh I already do!

Indeed!

And I appreciate everyone who goes out and makes Science comprehensible, interesting and exciting for the regular folks, including myself.

I especially thank the wonderful country of Canada for making so many interesting scientific documentaries to watch and stimulate our minds! Kudos to BBC and Discovery Channel as well!

I appreciate all those scientists who go out and connect with regular folks, to use the simplest clearest language to explain difficult convoluted concepts in this messy Universe of ours. Who take time off to talk to us. To contribute their time and effort to society. All those who are not shy to speak the truth when confronted by policies that are inspired by spiritual moralistic mush. You GO dudes!

Thank you thank you thank you. If not for people like you, I would have gone mad a long time ago. You make me believe humanity has a future!


Hehe I can see what you are railing at and what you want, but it really is no good you know.

Why? Well it's like this this. There are people in this world that do not, will not, and cannot think like you do. There are those that have no interest in science, in humanist endvours or in betering them selves or their children.
The world is made up of all sorts and this is the way that either God intended it to be, or the way it has evolved, depending on your belife.
Either way though this is how it is and this is how it shall remain long after I'm dead.

So try if you like, shout untill you are blue and try to get everybody else to agree with you, heheh good luck on that one mate!

Uh, society is 'scientific', its another word for secular I believe. And a scientific social movement? Humanism. I thought anybody with a good knwoledge of worldviews would know that

*looks to the rest of the people in the room who nod their heads*:rolleyes:

*looks around at people in the room, sees that these people nodding their heads only exist in Imperial Domain's head*

Science is the process we go through to obtain knowledge of the natural world. Secular means not relating to any particular religion. See the difference?

*looks around at people in the room, sees that these people nodding their heads only exist in Imperial Domain's head*

Science is the process we go through to obtain knowledge of the natural world. Secular means not relating to any particular religion. See the difference?


They were nodding their heads in boredom-induced drowsiness.

Hehe I can see what you are railing at and what you want, but it really is no good you know.

Why? Well it's like this this. There are people in this world that do not, will not, and cannot think like you do. There are those that have no interest in science, in humanist endvours or in betering them selves or their children.
The world is made up of all sorts and this is the way that either God intended it to be, or the way it has evolved, depending on your belife.
Either way though this is how it is and this is how it shall remain long after I'm dead.

So try if you like, shout untill you are blue and try to get everybody else to agree with you, heheh good luck on that one mate!

If there are many people who are not interested in Science, then we in the scientific endeavor must ask ourselves, why? Are we not reaching out enough? Is there not enough "song and dance and drama"? Rationalists like to think of these outreach and popular edu-tainment activities as just fluff. But our spiritualistic evangelistic competitors have built themselves an Empire based on just "fluff". In this world of Human-human selection we must present a powerful alternative to the faith-based social groups, and any social tools they use to accumulate influence and membership is also fair game for us. I am making an impassioned appeal to thinkers of all ages and nationalities to try make a difference.

I know I can't get everyone to agree with me. Of course. A lone voice is weak. But NSG is read by a community of hundreds if not thousands. Everyone counts, every little effort is appreciated. Thank you thank you thank you.