NationStates Jolt Archive

COMMENTARY: North Korea is capable of launcing not only a missle attack against South Korea and Japan, but a massive artillery attack against South Korean population centers. What do you think about this?


North Korean Guns,
Clear and Present Danger to South (http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/world/international-korea-north-artillery.html)


By REUTERS
Published: June 27, 2006
Filed at 5:26 a.m. ET

Skip to next paragraph SEOUL (Reuters) - If the world is alarmed about a North Korean long-range missile, for most South Koreans it is just one more addition to their neighbor's arsenal which could already devastate around half the population in a few hours.

Seoul, Tokyo and Washington have all warned Pyongyang not to test-fire a long-range missile, which has apparently been prepared for launch, saying it would imperil regional security and bring a harsh response.

The first time North Korea tried out a long-range missile -- in 1998, firing it over Japan -- it sent panicked regional financial markets into a tailspin.

But for South Korea, a more immediate danger may be North Korea's artillery.

The capital Seoul, only 60 km (37 miles) south of the heavily fortified Demilitarized Zone that has divided the peninsula since the end of the Korean War in 1953, has long been within range of one of the world's most powerful artillery batteries.

South Korea's Defense Ministry said the North had amassed more than 13,000 pieces of artillery and multiple rocket launchers, much of it aimed at Seoul.

Jane's International Defense Review estimates that if North Korea launched an all-out barrage, it could achieve an initial fire rate of 300,000 to 500,000 shells per hour into the Seoul area -- home to about half the country's 48.5 million people.

The biggest are 170-mm self-propelled artillery guns and 240-mm multiple rocket launchers. It also has hundreds of Scud missiles that could hit any part of South Korea.

North Korea is also thought to have been working to attach chemical and biological weapons to its long-range artillery.

"The threat from the North's artillery is the indiscriminate firing against our capital region and urban centers with its multiple rocket launchers and field artillery,'' a South Korean defense officer said.

Military experts note that South Korean and U.S. forces have worked for decades to perfect a counter strike. They also say that impoverished North Korea probably has not kept all of its guns in working order and may be short of shells.

But as a relatively basic weapons system, a rain of artillery would be the North's most effective and reliable way to hit the South fast and hard, they add.

Ordinary South Koreans appear to have become largely used to the threat, paying decreasing attention over the years to regular civil defense drills that were once mandatory.

The two Koreas are technically still at war because the 1950-1953 Korean War ended in a truce and not a peace treaty.

Though the North keeps most of its 1.2-million-man army near the border, the two Koreas have reached agreements in recent years aimed at reducing military tensions.

Japan, South Korea and the United States, along with China and Russia, have been locked in three years of now-stalled negotiations talks to dismantle North Korea's nuclear program.

Officials and military analysts say Pyongyang wants to develop a long-range missile to be able to carry a nuclear warhead.

But according to a recent survey by a state-funded research group, South Koreans view China -- and not North Korea -- as the biggest threat to their security 10 years from now.

It's a justified, rational response to decades of US Imperialist warmongering against Juche and Glorious Leader Kim Jong-Il!

COMMENTARY: North Korea is capable of launcing not only a missle attack against South Korea and Japan, but a massive artillery attack against South Korean. What do you think about this?
Gee, you like to keep up to date with stuff, don't ya?

I think it's the best reason not to go to war with North Korea. You can't shoot down that many artillery shells (can you shoot down shells at all?), and you can't take out that much artillery quickly enough to prevent many, many thousands casualties in the South. Not with the constant level of readiness that the North Korean Army has.

What do you think about this?

The South should rise again?

Weird, thought that was common knowledge.

Poor old Seoul. Piggy in the middle really.

Meh. Now you know how South american and canadians feel.
I always thought it was funny that the US paints NK as a bunch of warmongerers, when the war was fought on their territory, no doubt with greater losses to their army.

Liasia']Meh. Now you know how South american and canadians feel.
I always thought it was funny that the US paints NK as a bunch of warmongerers, when the war was fought on their territory, no doubt with greater losses to their army.

Seeing as how the North did start the Korean War...

Seeing as how the North did start the Korean War...
Should of let them get on with it. Stop the spread of communism, sure, shame about the millions of lives it cost tho eh?

OMFG ITS TEH MUSLIM COMMIES!!!1

What would you do if a belligerent giant with a bunch of nukes and a history of randomly invading places kept making faces at you?

Probably the same thing the North Koreans are doing.

It's a justified, rational response to decades of US Imperialist warmongering against Juche and Glorious Leader Kim Jong-Il!
Riiiiight. :rolleyes:

Liasia']Should of let them get on with it.

Umm, no.

The UN was right to do what it did.

Gee, you like to keep up to date with stuff, don't ya?

I think it's the best reason not to go to war with North Korea. You can't shoot down that many artillery shells (can you shoot down shells at all?), and you can't take out that much artillery quickly enough to prevent many, many thousands casualties in the South. Not with the constant level of readiness that the North Korean Army has.
Can you say, "Tactical nuclear device" boys and girls?

Umm, no.

The UN was right to do what it did.
Says you. I doubt many North Koreans would agree.

Can you say, "Tactical nuclear device" boys and girls?
Yes, but so can the North Koreans. They have those right?

Liasia']Says you. I doubt many North Koreans would agree.

You're right. I doubt many North Koreans can do anything either. Except maybe 'Love the Leader'.

Liasia']Meh. Now you know how South american and canadians feel.
I always thought it was funny that the US paints NK as a bunch of warmongerers, when the war was fought on their territory, no doubt with greater losses to their army.
No, the Korean War was fought on the South Korean territory. Remember the 38th Paralell?

No, the Korean War was fought on the South Korean territory. Remember the 38th Paralell?
The war went above that, as i recall. Meaning north Korea.

COMMENTARY: North Korea is capable of launcing not only a missle attack against South Korea and Japan, but a massive artillery attack against South Korean population centers. What do you think about this?
As the "gun nuts" of NS are wont to say:

"An armed society, is a polite society". :p

Liasia']The war went above that, as i recall. Meaning north Korea.
Yes, but the North invaded the South initally.

(with a little prompting from Beijing)

Yes, but the North invaded the South initally.

(with a little prompting from Beijing)
Still, the US shouldn't have interfered. Imprealism in denial.

Liasia']Still, the US shouldn't have interfered. Imprealism in denial.
It wasn't the United States, it was the United Nations.

It wasn't the United States, it was the United Nations.
Who are dominated by who? Oh yes. The US.

Once again, the Leftists of NS are defending Communist Imperialism...Why I am not surprised?

Once again, the Leftists of NS are defending Communist Imperialism...Why I am not surprised?
Whilst the righties are defending capitalist imperialism. I fail to see how one is worse than the other.

As the "gun nuts" of NS are wont to say:

"An armed society, is a polite society". :p
But "two armed societies are a war wating to happen?" :p

Liasia']Still, the US shouldn't have interfered. Imprealism in denial.
You should review your history a bit more often. It wasn't America which intervened, it was the UN. :p

Liasia']Who are dominated by who? Oh yes. The US.
...and France, the Soviet Union, and Britian at the time. What's your point?

It was legitimate. N. Korea's invasion was not.

Liasia']Who are dominated by who? Oh yes. The US.
Just can't stand the idea that SOMETHING in the world isn't the fault of America, can you! Sigh. :(

Liasia']Whilst the righties are defending capitalist imperialism. I fail to see how one is worse than the other.
If it was Imperialism, we would have taken them over...We did'nt...We defended South Korea and left a fortified border between the two, to keep the war from sparking up again...Some Imperialists, eh?

Actually, I don't see any problem with this. They're well on their way to becoming an Americite territory, as shown by their wholehearted adoption of what is by far the most important tenant of modern American society. The second amendment.

Once again, the Leftists of NS are defending Communist Imperialism...Why I am not surprised?
Because that's what they DO? Ya think? Heh!

But "two armed societies are a war wating to happen?" :p
Well, all is quiet on the eastern front for the past 54 years.

Well, using your analogy, it is just a matter of time before the US, China, France, UK, Pakistan, India, and Russia get into the mother of all wars.

So why worry?

...and France, the Soviet Union, and Britian at the time. What's your point?

It was legitimate. N. Korea's invasion was not.
*shrugs* I'm only 17, I was born one year before the fall of the berlin wall. For me, communism doesn't seem to carry the same weight of fear behind it as it does for some. History is full of illigitimate invasions, with one very recent one which springs to mind, but because the gov. behind this was communist everyone views it with a slant.

Liasia']Whilst the righties are defending capitalist imperialism. I fail to see how one is worse than the other.
How does talking about the massive attack capabilities of North Korea translate into somehow "defending capitalist imperialism," pray tell?

If it was Imperialism, we would have taken them over...We did'nt...We defended South Korea and left a fortified border between the two, to keep the war from sparking up again...Some Imperialists, eh?
I was under the impression that the allies wouldv'e done if they were able, but got driven back after those huge massacres of troops around that lake and the harsh korean winter.

Liasia']*shrugs* I'm only 17, I was born one year before the fall of the berlin wall. For me, communism doesn't seem to carry the same weight of fear behind it as it does for some. History is full of illigitimate invasions, with one very recent one which springs to mind, but because the gov. behind this was communist everyone views it with a slant.
Read the original post, then tell me exactly where even the TERM "communism" or "communist" was mentioned.

How does talking about the massive attack capabilities of North Korea translate into somehow "defending capitalist imperialism," pray tell?
Because you seem to be saying NK's attack capability is somehow more scary than the nuclear arsenal's of the UK, France, the US etc.

Liasia']I was under the impression that the allies wouldv'e done if they were able, but got driven back after those huge massacres of troops around that lake and the harsh korean winter.
Ah! I see the problem now. You've been taught a revisionist version of history. Tsk!

Read the original post, then tell me exactly where even the TERM "communism" or "communist" was mentioned.
Does it need to be?

Ah! I see the problem now. You've been taught a revisionist version of history. Tsk!
:confused: I saw it on a history channel documentary, dude.

Liasia']*shrugs* I'm only 17
It shows.

Liasia']:confused: I saw it on a history channel documentary, dude.

Hah! History Channel is a vast left-wing conspiracy. Why do you think they have that show on engineering disasters? They're trying to shake faith in the infallible American ingenuity and manufacturing ability.

Ah, Kim Jong-Il must have run out of cash for his massive movie collection. Time to extort money out of the west again! Where's Clinton and his trusty fat wallet when you need it? Kim needs his allowance.

Liasia']Because you seem to be saying NK's attack capability is somehow more scary than the nuclear arsenal's of the UK, France, the US etc.

If you are living in Seoul it is.

Did you even read the post? Or did you never hear about the MASSIVE amount of artillery aimed directly at Seoul for the past half century or so?

Because that's what they DO? Ya think? Heh!

Here. I consider myself to be somewhat 'left', and I'm defending the war! Don't tar us all.

It shows.
Hey I admitted it, so there's no need to take a cheap shot.

Hah! History Channel is a vast left-wing conspiracy. Why do you think they have that show on engineering disasters? They're trying to shake faith in the infallible American ingenuity and manufacturing ability.
Discovery channel is better. A constant diet of sharks/nazis/mythbusters. It's great.

Liasia']*shrugs* I'm only 17, I was born one year before the fall of the berlin wall. For me, communism doesn't seem to carry the same weight of fear behind it as it does for some. History is full of illigitimate invasions, with one very recent one which springs to mind, but because the gov. behind this was communist everyone views it with a slant.

I would suggest looking at the results of communism in China. Look up 'The Great Leap Forward' and 'the Cultural Revolution'. It was a disaster.

I believe they also have a great many artillery pieces trained on the DMZ, home to tens of thousands of American soldiers.

If you are living in Seoul it is.

Did you even read the post? Or did you never hear about the MASSIVE amount of artillery aimed directly at Seoul for the past half century or so?

As if they would ever declare war again, after the ass-whuppin they got last time.

The way to defeat North Korea: Block the Yalu River and the Korean Sea. The country would collaspe on its own, without their Chuugoku-ian support.

I would suggest looking at the results of communism in China. Look up 'The Great Leap Forward' and 'the Cultural Revolution'. It was a disaster.
China isn't communist, it's capitalism with less civil rights.

I would suggest looking at the results of communism in China. Look up 'The Great Leap Forward' and 'the Cultural Revolution'. It was a disaster.

Capitalist lies. Why else would it be called 'The Great Leap Forward' instead of the Chinese equivilant? Eh? Because America leads the Capitalist Pig Dogs, that's why!

Yeah, I'm an equal opportunity mocker.

The way to defeat North Korea: Block the Yalu River and the Korean Sea. The country would collaspe on its own, without their Chuugoku-ian support.

A collapsed country can't really collapse.

Liasia']China isn't communist, it's capitalism with less civil rights.

You're looking at it's current incarnation, not what it was from the end of the world war II until the death of Mao.

And the North Korean brand of 'communism' is similar.

Liasia']As if they would ever declare war again, after the ass-whuppin they got last time.
It doesn't need to.

It preventative/defensive. Don't you see?

If anyone tried anything against N. Korea, with a flick of a switch, Seoul is obliterated.

Its a fantastic ace in the hole if you can get it.

Liasia']Still, the US shouldn't have interfered. Imprealism in denial.

It's replies like yours that make me think (just for a moment) that maybe the USA SHOULD go Imperialist again. We're already getting the complaining, we may as well get the goods.

N.B.: The United States has not taken any territory in combat since the Spanish-American War (1898).

So am I the only one who saw the title of the thread and wondered, just for a moment, why Eut was worried about an artillery attack from Canada?
http://www.profileking.org/smilies/53.gif

Heh. We had to go to war with Iraq because Saddam was a bad, bad man in charge of a corrupt, warlike government.

But we can't go to war with North Korea cuz they have nukes and artillery.

See? Moral reasons for war are so very versatile. Practical. It's kind of like how the bully hates fat kids, so he beats up the fat kid who can't fight back and stays away from the fat kid who can.

(Plus, North Korea isn't a Muslim nation. Hence not good fodder for sensationalist news. And no one could ever use 9/11 to justify going to war with them.)

Massed Arty a threat?

This is new news?

It's replies like yours that make me think (just for a moment) that maybe the USA SHOULD go Imperialist again. We're already getting the complaining, we may as well get the goods.

N.B.: The United States has not taken any territory in combat since the Spanish-American War (1898).
*cough*Iraq*cough*. you don't have to take territory directly to control it, you know. The manipulation of governments serves the US as well as direct control would.

Here. I consider myself to be somewhat 'left', and I'm defending the war! Don't tar us all.
Relax. I was agreeing with you. :p

It doesn't need to.

It preventative/defensive. Don't you see?

If anyone tried anything against N. Korea, with a flick of a switch, Seoul is obliterated.

Its a fantastic ace in the hole if you can get it.
Good point, but as NK has nukes any war between it and another nuke bearing country would entail MAD anywho. Depends if the world cares about seoul enough.

Heh. We had to go to war with Iraq because Saddam was a bad, bad man in charge of a corrupt, warlike government.

But we can't go to war with North Korea cuz they have nukes and artillery.

See? Moral reasons for war are so very versatile. Practical. It's kind of like how the bully hates fat kids, so he beats up the fat kid who can't fight back and stays away from the fat kid who can.

(Plus, North Korea isn't a Muslim nation. Hence not good fodder for sensationalist news. And no one could ever use 9/11 to justify going to war with them.)

Come on, we've all seen 'Team America'. We all know Kim-Jong Il is behind it all - and he has 'Arec Bardrin' at his side to boot.

Something must be done.

Relax. I was agreeing with you. :p
Humm. Ok. :fluffle:

Heh. We had to go to war with Iraq because Saddam was a bad, bad man in charge of a corrupt, warlike government.

But we can't go to war with North Korea cuz they have nukes and artillery.

See? Moral reasons for war are so very versatile. Practical. It's kind of like how the bully hates fat kids, so he beats up the fat kid who can't fight back and stays away from the fat kid who can.

(Plus, North Korea isn't a Muslim nation. Hence not good fodder for sensationalist news. And no one could ever use 9/11 to justify going to war with them.)

Meh. All Bush has to do is put the conspiracy theories to good use. After all, on the surface at least, it's not too unbelievable to say that North Korea would have funded terrorists against the hated Capitalist Imperialist America.

You're looking at it's current incarnation, not what it was from the end of the world war II until the death of Mao.

And the North Korean brand of 'communism' is similar.
I saw a program about Nk, it's economy is apparently completly in ruins already trying to support its military. Not going too well you know.

I believe they also have a great many artillery pieces trained on the DMZ, home to tens of thousands of American soldiers.
Verily, thou dost exaggerate. And if you had bothered to read the article, you'd know that they're not trained on the DMZ, but on Soeul, the capital of South Korea, where live, you know ... like, CIVILIANS! :p

Liasia']*cough*Iraq*cough*. you don't have to take territory directly to control it, you know. The manipulation of governments serves the US as well as direct control would.

Yes, I'm sure that elected government is making you cough. Just like the impossible voting without violence. :rolleyes:

Riiiiiiiight. And the US is running Germany, Italy, and Japan too, eh?

Meh. All Bush has to do is put the conspiracy theories to good use. After all, on the surface at least, it's not too unbelievable to say that North Korea would have funded terrorists against the hated Capitalist Imperialist America.

Given his popularity at the moment, I think he would need another Big Terrorist Event to pull that off. But that'll happen sooner or later, so who knows? It wouldn't surprise me (the first one didn't).

Verily, thou dost exaggerate. And if you had bothered to read the article, you'd know that they're not trained on the DMZ, but on Soeul, the capital of South Korea, where live, you know ... like, CIVILIANS! :p

But the DMZ is home to interesting animals that are extinct in the rest of Korea. And we all know that commies hate biodiversity.

Liasia']I saw a program about Nk, it's economy is apparently completly in ruins already trying to support its military. Not going too well you know.

Which is why N. Korea is playing 'blackmail' again. The Dear Leader needs more cash. This is what fighting in Korea was all about. Now we're stuck with Krazy Kim.

A collapsed country can't really collapse.

If it's collapsed, then why is it still running. China supports it, and it isn't communist; capitalism with few, if any, political freedoms.

Ahhhhh yes, good ol' Kim Jong Mentally-Il

Given his popularity at the moment, I think he would need another Big Terrorist Event to pull that off. But that'll happen sooner or later, so who knows? It wouldn't surprise me (the first one didn't).

Or maybe he'll utilize Americas stupidity... I mean, all he has to do is to tell the public that Kim Jong-Il is a muslim. For all they know, it's true.

If it's collapsed, then why is it still running. China supports it, and it isn't communist; capitalism with few, if any, political freedoms.

Ahhhhh yes, good ol' Kim Jong Mentally-Il

There is something to be said for inertia.
That, and who really wants to walk in and clean up that mess?

Or maybe he'll just utilize Americas stupidity... I mean, all he has to do is to tell the public that Kim Jong-Il is a muslim. For all they know, it's true.

Nah. After 3 Asian wars in 50 years, we know a gook when we see one.

(oh, gee! I'm sorry! I spit a sterotype back at you!)

Or maybe he'll just utilize Americas stupidity... I mean, all he has to do is to tell the public that Kim Jong-Il is a muslim. For all they know, it's true.

That was a low blow. I'm American and though I don't claim everyone is terribly well-learned when it comes to foreign affairs here, there IS a limit to how much we'll swallow.

I mean... I hope there is... :(

That was a low blow. I'm American and though I don't claim everyone is terribly well-learned when it comes to foreign affairs here, there IS a limit to how much we'll swallow.

I mean... I hope there is... :(

Unless you're Jenna Jameson. <rimshot!>

Nah. After 3 Asian wars in 50 years, we know a gook when we see one.

(oh, gee! I'm sorry! I spit a sterotype back at you!)

Isn't a communist muslim gook with a Canadian passport something that would keep patriotic people awake at night, shivering with fear?

Verily, thou dost exaggerate. And if you had bothered to read the article, you'd know that they're not trained on the DMZ, but on Soeul, the capital of South Korea, where live, you know ... like, CIVILIANS! :p


http://www.cnn.com/interactive/maps/world/fullpage.troop.deployments/world.index.html

Cnn says 32,000 US troops in korea.

One of the big threats from the korean arty arsenal, one not mentioned in the article (and on top of the big threat to civilians) is that it could be used to decimate the US troops stationed along the DMZ, causing troops casualties that dwarf Iraq so far.

Isn't a communist muslim gook with a Canadian passport something that would keep patriotic people awake at night, shivering with fear?

Nah. That's nothing near as bad as the Commie-Nazi East German female
athletes we used to see in the 70s and 80s in the Olympics.

That, and you can always hear Charlie in the wire.

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/maps/world/fullpage.troop.deployments/world.index.html

Cnn says 32,000 US troops in korea.

One of the big threats from the korean arty arsenal, one not mentioned in the article (and on top of the big threat to civilians) is that it could be used to decimate the US troops stationed along the DMZ, causing troops casualties that dwarf Iraq so far.

Except the population of Seoul is a much more juicier target for the artillery to hit.

Is it confirmed that North Korea has nuclear warheads, or is it just researching them still? (ie, have they tested?)

If they have'nt, there's still time to take Kim out.

Isn't a communist muslim gook with a Canadian passport something that would keep patriotic people awake at night, shivering with fear?
Nope. It would just make me clean my gun more often. :D

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/maps/world/fullpage.troop.deployments/world.index.html

Cnn says 32,000 US troops in korea.

One of the big threats from the korean arty arsenal, one not mentioned in the article (and on top of the big threat to civilians) is that it could be used to decimate the US troops stationed along the DMZ, causing troops casualties that dwarf Iraq so far.
True. IMHO, that just goes to show how reality-challenged North Korea is. I suspect the reaction here in America would be fury.

Is it confirmed that North Korea has nuclear warheads, or is it just researching them still? (ie, have they tested?)

If they have'nt, there's still time to take Kim out.

*sigh*

Did you even glance at the first post? Even the bolded parts?

This has abso-fucking-lutley nothing to do with nuclear weapons.

Nah. That's nothing near as bad as the Commie-Nazi East German female athletes we used to see in the 70s and 80s in the Olympics.
Ah, I've seen those... There are some things you can't "un-see" no matter how much you wish for it.

COMMENTARY: North Korea is capable of launcing not only a missle attack against South Korea and Japan, but a massive artillery attack against South Korean population centers. What do you think about this?


North Korean Guns,
Clear and Present Danger to South (http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/world/international-korea-north-artillery.html)


By REUTERS
Published: June 27, 2006
Filed at 5:26 a.m. ET

Skip to next paragraph SEOUL (Reuters) - If the world is alarmed about a North Korean long-range missile, for most South Koreans it is just one more addition to their neighbor's arsenal which could already devastate around half the population in a few hours.

Seoul, Tokyo and Washington have all warned Pyongyang not to test-fire a long-range missile, which has apparently been prepared for launch, saying it would imperil regional security and bring a harsh response.

The first time North Korea tried out a long-range missile -- in 1998, firing it over Japan -- it sent panicked regional financial markets into a tailspin.

But for South Korea, a more immediate danger may be North Korea's artillery.

The capital Seoul, only 60 km (37 miles) south of the heavily fortified Demilitarized Zone that has divided the peninsula since the end of the Korean War in 1953, has long been within range of one of the world's most powerful artillery batteries.

South Korea's Defense Ministry said the North had amassed more than 13,000 pieces of artillery and multiple rocket launchers, much of it aimed at Seoul.

Jane's International Defense Review estimates that if North Korea launched an all-out barrage, it could achieve an initial fire rate of 300,000 to 500,000 shells per hour into the Seoul area -- home to about half the country's 48.5 million people.

The biggest are 170-mm self-propelled artillery guns and 240-mm multiple rocket launchers. It also has hundreds of Scud missiles that could hit any part of South Korea.

North Korea is also thought to have been working to attach chemical and biological weapons to its long-range artillery.

"The threat from the North's artillery is the indiscriminate firing against our capital region and urban centers with its multiple rocket launchers and field artillery,'' a South Korean defense officer said.

Military experts note that South Korean and U.S. forces have worked for decades to perfect a counter strike. They also say that impoverished North Korea probably has not kept all of its guns in working order and may be short of shells.

But as a relatively basic weapons system, a rain of artillery would be the North's most effective and reliable way to hit the South fast and hard, they add.

Ordinary South Koreans appear to have become largely used to the threat, paying decreasing attention over the years to regular civil defense drills that were once mandatory.

The two Koreas are technically still at war because the 1950-1953 Korean War ended in a truce and not a peace treaty.

Though the North keeps most of its 1.2-million-man army near the border, the two Koreas have reached agreements in recent years aimed at reducing military tensions.

Japan, South Korea and the United States, along with China and Russia, have been locked in three years of now-stalled negotiations talks to dismantle North Korea's nuclear program.

Officials and military analysts say Pyongyang wants to develop a long-range missile to be able to carry a nuclear warhead.

But according to a recent survey by a state-funded research group, South Koreans view China -- and not North Korea -- as the biggest threat to their security 10 years from now.

Certain people love to ask, "Why did we invade Iraq and not North Korea?"

This is one reason why.

Nope. It would just make me clean my gun more often. :D
You're not so tough... We all know Cindy Sheehan and her homosexual muslim brigade scare the crap out of you.

*sigh*

Did you even glance at the first post? Even the bolded parts?

This has abso-fucking-lutley nothing to do with nuclear weapons.
Yes, ***hole, I did. I was asking a question, seeing as how they're related (ie, related to the NK military.)

Why don't you think before you open your rusty trap?

Ah, I've seen those... There are some things you can't "un-see" no matter how much you wish for it.
You mean kinda like I wish I could "un-see" the name WangWee? Heh!

Liasia']Says you. I doubt many North Koreans would agree.


not if you gave them a hamburger .

not if you gave them a hamburger .
Heh! Or even a bowl of rice.

Nope. It would just make me clean my gun more often. :D

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/03/02/photos/wire-clean.jpg

C'mon E! It only takes 7 minutes every other day!

Yes, ***hole, I did. I was asking a question, seeing as how they're related (ie, related to the NK military.)

Why don't you think before you open your rusty trap?

Well my dear, then you would notice that nuclear weapons are irrelevant in this scenario, because if N. Korea got wind of an incoming missile... bye bye Seoul- purely via artillery.

Petty, but thats the mind-set.

Heh! Or even a bowl of rice.
I have a feeling that most DPRKians would live to be "conquered" by the evil capitalist imperialist warmongering South.

I have a feeling that most DPRKians would live to be "conquered" by the evil capitalist imperialist warmongering South.

Or indeed, just have Ronald McDonald invade. ;)

(What the heck? They DID take all the questionable mad-cows the Germans were going to slaughter a few years back...)

You mean kinda like I wish I could "un-see" the name WangWee? Heh!

Before you post a lame comeback, look deep within your soul (yeeurgh!) and ask yourself the question: "Did I hear that one in the playground? In Nam? On The Bill Cosby show?"...And if you did, don't hit "submit reply".

Before you post a lame comeback, look deep within your soul (yeeurgh!) and ask yourself the question: "Did I hear that one in the playground? In Nam? On The Bill Cosby show?"...And if you did, don't hit "submit reply".

I think he was more put aback by someone who chose a name which is slang for "small penis".

Well my dear, then you would notice that nuclear weapons are irrelevant in this scenario, because if N. Korea got wind of an incoming missile... bye bye Seoul- purely via artillery.

Petty, but thats the mind-set.
Yes, casualties would be significant, but if we struck the artillery hard and fast with small tacnukes, they would'nt have a chance to fire off all of them.

Same thing with the NK troops...We should'nt allow a madman like Kim to get nukes and threaten free countries.
Heh! Or even a bowl of rice.
Heck, even a puppy would do...

Before you post a lame comeback, look deep within your soul (yeeurgh!) and ask yourself the question: "Did I hear that one in the playground? In Nam? On The Bill Cosby show?"...And if you did, don't hit "submit reply".
Ya don' KNOW, DO ya! LMAO! :D

Yes, casualties would be significant, but if we struck the artillery hard and fast with small tacnukes, they would'nt have a chance to fire off all of them.

'Tacnukes' as you call them, don't move at the speed of light. You are not giving the N. Korean defence warning systems much credit at all.

The artillery emplacements do not need to be fired individually or manually as you seem to be assuming. These aren't gun carriages we're talking about here, this is the largest concentration of artillery in one place in the world- enough to wipe out a huge city.

Yes, casualties would be significant, but if we struck the artillery hard and fast with small tacnukes, they would'nt have a chance to fire off all of them.

Same thing with the NK troops...We should'nt allow a madman like Kim to get nukes and threaten free countries.

Heck, even a puppy would do...
Ick! LOL!

I will never understand those who ask idiotic questions like, "Why is the US allowed to have nuclear weapons if the North Koreans ( or the Iranians ) aren't allowed to have them?" Do these people even live in the same universe???

I think he was more put aback by someone who chose a name which is slang for "small penis".

I tried to type "the disputed territories of humongous cocks" when I was creating my nation but for some odd reason my fingers wouldn't comply.

I tried to type "the disputed territories of humongous cocks" when I was creating my nation but for some odd reason my fingers wouldn't comply.

Must be genetic. :D

I tried to type "the disputed territories of humongous cocks" when I was creating my nation but for some odd reason my fingers wouldn't comply.


I don't think your fingers would lie :p

Ya don' KNOW, DO ya! LMAO! :D

No...My national motto has to do with ancient Chinese philosophy.

Ick! LOL!

I will never understand those who ask idiotic questions like, "Why is the US allowed to have nuclear weapons if the North Koreans ( or the Iranians ) aren't allowed to have them?" Do these people even live in the same universe???
Preferably neither would possess any. But NK ranks pretty much at the top of the 'please God, not them' list.

Let's assume action of some description needs to be taken against NK aggression. Ain't the Iraq war gonna seem really stupid then?

Preferably neither would possess any. But NK ranks pretty much at the top of the 'please God, not them' list.

Let's assume action of some description needs to be taken against NK aggression. Ain't the Iraq war gonna seem really stupid then?
There were many who thought that it was stupid in the first place.

Preferably neither would possess any. But NK ranks pretty much at the top of the 'please God, not them' list.

Let's assume action of some description needs to be taken against NK aggression. Ain't the Iraq war gonna seem really stupid then?
Well, there's allways the Draft...'Bout time those youngins' learned them some respect for the uniform, eh? :D

Well, there's allways the Draft...'Bout time those youngins' learned them some respect for the uniform, eh? :D
Throwing some rich folks' kids into combat should help the powers-that-be gain a little perspective, yes.

Agreed, Eutrusca. But the NK situation doesn't appear to be have been a major influence on views at the time.

Well, there's allways the Draft...'Bout time those youngins' learned them some respect for the uniform, eh? :D

http://www.world-wide-art.com/art/va/printjpgs/b/gbaldwin/rabbitouthat.jpg

Bullwinkle: Hey, Rocky! Watch me pull 3 million unwilling recruits out of my hat!

Rocky: Aw, that trick never works!

Bullwinkle: No doubt about it, I'm gonna need a new hat!

Well, there's allways the Draft...'Bout time those youngins' learned them some respect for the uniform, eh? :D

The draft is bad.

You don't get hard-core bad mofo warriors from draftees.

You get HDBMWs from people who WANT to be there.

You can't turn a sheep into a wolf. A wolf is born a wolf.....

Yes, casualties would be significant, but if we struck the artillery hard and fast with small tacnukes, they would'nt have a chance to fire off all of them.

Same thing with the NK troops...We should'nt allow a madman like Kim to get nukes and threaten free countries.

Wow... tacnukes... on the Korean Peninsula... that's the fastest way to get billions of Chinese people in the war.

And besides, if there's going to be a war, I doubt that America would strike first - the DPRK would start it with everything that they've got the first time. The idea is to get the DPRK to lose the war before it's even begun, because otherwise, you'll get chaos.

'Tacnukes' as you call them, don't move at the speed of light. You are not giving the N. Korean defence warning systems much credit at all.

The artillery emplacements do not need to be fired individually or manually as you seem to be assuming. These aren't gun carriages we're talking about here, this is the largest concentration of artillery in one place in the world- enough to wipe out a huge city.


if they are all in one place then they can all be blown to bits all at one time.

its not as if they are hidden or hardened.

just a bunch of targets to be disposed of .

Its not like we have not had 50 years to practice blowing them to bits and plan for is it ?:D

You have heard of stealth bombers have you not ...?

So ..what warning ???

The draft is bad.

You don't get hard-core bad mofo warriors from draftees.

You get HDBMWs from people who WANT to be there.

You can't turn a sheep into a wolf. A wolf is born a wolf.....
I think the political and social effects of a draft are interesting and desirable enough to risk having dodgy soldiers.

I think the political and social effects of a draft are interesting and desirable enough to risk having dodgy soldiers.

Why? Is Canada running out of people again? :D

EUT you own a gun?


Stop holding out on me, post some pics.

:p

Wow... tacnukes... on the Korean Peninsula... that's the fastest way to get billions of Chinese people in the war.

And besides, if there's going to be a war, I doubt that America would strike first - the DPRK would start it with everything that they've got the first time. The idea is to get the DPRK to lose the war before it's even begun, because otherwise, you'll get chaos.


ahhh yes ...billions of dollars in trade and wall mart ...vs....a troublesome Elvis type with heel lifts a bad hair cut and a raving loony toon to boot .


What a really tough call for China .:D

I think the political and social effects of a draft are interesting and desirable enough to risk having dodgy soldiers.

You must be a politician.

if they are all in one place then they can all be blown to bits all at one time.

its not as if they are hidden or hardened.

just a bunch of targets to be disposed of .

Its not like we have not had 50 years to practice blowing them to bits and plan for is it ?:D

You have heard of stealth bombers have you not ...?

So ..what warning ???


Daisy cutter.

FAE

Cluster bomb

Napalm

Carpet bombing

Cruise missile

VIAGRA

etc

The draft is bad.

You don't get hard-core bad mofo warriors from draftees.

You get HDBMWs from people who WANT to be there.

You can't turn a sheep into a wolf. A wolf is born a wolf.....
There are some on the margins who can be trained to be, but by and large you're correct.

You must be a politician.
My point is that if those who so blithely and recklessly send young men and women into war have a personal stake in their decision, perhaps they'll give the matter more serious consideration.

Fuck it. Send in Private Rumsfeld.

Daisy cutter.

FAE

Cluster bomb

Napalm

Carpet bombing

Cruise missile

VIAGRA

etc
I prefer Fuel-Air mixtures myself. :)

"Viagra???"

My point is that if those who so blithely and recklessly send young men and women into war have a personal stake in their decision, perhaps they'll give the matter more serious consideration.

Fuck it. Send in Private Rumsfeld.

There are always those who are meant to lead, and those who are ment to be led.


To reverse there rules is not only stupid, but suicide.

Thats just how it is.

There are always those who are meant to lead, and those who are ment to be led.




Ah yes. Führerprinzip!

I prefer Fuel-Air mixtures myself. :)

"Viagra???"

How many wangs are out there?

:p

How many wangs are out there?

:p
WangWee is the only true "wang" I know of? :D

Ah yes. Führerprinzip!

You dont think so? Take a quick glance at a history book....leaders, and their countries/armies.

We do not live in a time of individuals living among individuals, we live in a time of nation-states...who a run by leaders...some more blatantly than others.

You dont think so? Take a quick glance at a history book....leaders, and their countries/armies.

We do not live in a time of individuals living among individuals, we live in a time of nation-states...who a run by leaders...some more blatantly than others.

Hey, I won't disagree with Führerprinzip. It's a nice, inadaptive, deterministic system which leads to socialism and totalitarianism. What could go wrong with such a viewpoint? Just because Hitler was a bad man, doesn't mean he wasn't wrong ... right?

WangWee is the only true "wang" I know of? :D

Well, there IS PVT Tainee Dong, PFC Bigduk dong, CPL Mai ding Dong and of course GEN WHAK ME DONG :D

NK has funny names :p

ahhh yes ...billions of dollars in trade and wall mart ...vs....a troublesome Elvis type with heel lifts a bad hair cut and a raving loony toon to boot .


What a really tough call for China .:D


Either you're not Asian, or you really don't have a clue about Asia period.

It's true that China considers its economic stability to be important, but in all honesty, they'd be glad to wipe out the world to keep America out of the North. They like to have "good" neighbors. Besides that, America shouldn't be stupid enough to risk a war in Asia anyway.

Well, there IS PVT Tainee Dong, PFC Bigduk dong, CPL Mai ding Dong and of course GEN WHAK ME DONG :D

NK has funny names :p
LMAO!! :D

Either you're not Asian, or you really don't have a clue about Asia period.

It's true that China considers its economic stability to be important, but in all honesty, they'd be glad to wipe out the world to keep America out of the North. They like to have "good" neighbors. Besides that, America shouldn't be stupid enough to risk a war in Asia anyway.
Can you say, "Glassed parking lot," boys and girls? :D

There are always those who are meant to lead, and those who are ment to be led.


To reverse there rules is not only stupid, but suicide.

Thats just how it is.
You miss the point.

There are some on the margins who can be trained to be, but by and large you're correct.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE:eek: !

The chosen one!


[bows down]

Uhhhh ohhh....uhhh ohhh.....uhhhh ohh...uhhhh...ohhh....












:D

It's true that China considers its economic stability to be important, but in all honesty, they'd be glad to wipe out the world to keep America out of the North. They like to have "good" neighbors. Besides that, America shouldn't be stupid enough to risk a war in Asia anyway.
Hmmm, interesting...So if we wanted too, we could manipulate them into doing our job for us...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE:eek: !

The chosen one!


[bows down]

Uhhhh ohhh....uhhh ohhh.....uhhhh ohh...uhhhh...ohhh....

:D
LOL! Boy, you ain't right! :D

Well, there IS PVT Tainee Dong, PFC Bigduk dong, CPL Mai ding Dong and of course GEN WHAK ME DONG :D

NK has funny names :p

That is a very inconsiderate insult. Otherwise, I'd have some very nice choice words for that. And it's not just an insult against Koreans...

Hmmm, interesting...So if we wanted too, we could manipulate them into doing our job for us...

:rolleyes:

If America's goal is to initiate Armageddon, alright...

That is a very inconsiderate insult. Otherwise, I'd have some very nice choice words for that. And it's not just an insult against Koreans...

Jesus tapdancing Christ, this is NS General!

Nothing is sacred here!

:rolleyes:

If America's goal is to initiate Armageddon, alright...
Why would that be? China probably does'nt like NK nukes as much as we do...So just let them invade.

Jesus tapdancing Christ, this is NS General!

Nothing is sacred here!

Sacred is nothing - it's respect.

Why is this such a panic?

I thought the American Armed Forces has much advanced technology that can shoot down the poorest country's missiles. What's there to panic about?

Unless, one of the world's poorest countries can make the big giant scared. Is the US challenged here? The poorest country has better arms than the richest. WTF.

Why would that be? China probably does'nt like NK nukes as much as we do...So just let them invade.

China invading DPRK is just as bad as USA invading DPRK, maybe worse [although no one would really stop the Chinese...they have veto power and everyone hates the DPRK more than they hate the PRC - except dogmatic Stalinists]

Sacred is nothing - it's respect.
Respect is another thing sorely lacking on NS General.

Why is this such a panic?

I thought the American Armed Forces has much advanced technology that can shoot down the poorest country's missiles. What's there to panic about?

Unless, one of the world's poorest countries can make the big giant scared. Is the US challenged here? The poorest country has better arms than the richest. WTF.
You misunderstand, or are being deliberatly obtuse.

Missles vs. atrillery shells. BIG difference. And it's not that America is "afraid" of North Korea; it's just that we don't much like thousands, perhaps millions, of our people killed. Nor do we like thousands, prehaps millions, of the people of our allies ( such as Japan ) killed. Got it? Kewl.

That is a very inconsiderate insult. Otherwise, I'd have some very nice choice words for that. And it's not just an insult against Koreans...
LMAO! Get a grip, dude.

Sacred is nothing - it's respect.

Respect is nonexistant here. The sooner you get that through your head, the easier it is.

North Korea has two chopices in a war. Bombard Seoul and destroy the very heart of the economic power they covet so much or shell the DMZ with enough force to allow their ground troops to break through. They can't do both at the same time though.

My point is that if those who so blithely and recklessly send young men and women into war have a personal stake in their decision, perhaps they'll give the matter more serious consideration.

Fuck it. Send in Private Rumsfeld.

What if you want to win ?

Either you're not Asian, or you really don't have a clue about Asia period.

It's true that China considers its economic stability to be important, but in all honesty, they'd be glad to wipe out the world to keep America out of the North. They like to have "good" neighbors. Besides that, America shouldn't be stupid enough to risk a war in Asia anyway.


A .......if the wanted to risk a war in asia they would have already destroyed the NK ability to produce nukes.

B.....China would not be one of our largest trade partners.


C....." America" could care less about the "North " except for the fact they threaten our allies and their leader is a fruitcake .

D......America wouldnt be bothered with going into the north...not when China is fully capable of doing it for them ...or if China aggree's to it..South Korea heads
north ( after we bomb the NK's to oblivion )..and reunifies the country .

E....China has everything to lose and nothing to gain by siding with the loonytoon in the North...he exist as long as he remains their puppet and jumps when the strings are pulled. The more the puppet is annoying the west the more "concessions " China can wring from the west ..for little more than a leash pull .


so who is it that doesnt understand Asia ?


And by the way NO sane person would consider NK a " good Neighbor " by any stretch of the imagination .

As China allows more democracy and learns to respect some human rights ..and becomes less dogmatic..and opens up more to the west, you may see a bargain between the US and China over Taiwan ..with Korean unification as the prize ....IMO ...thats the only reason China allows NK to exist ...because the US wont let them take Taiwan .

The Elvis puppet makes noise every time China makes noise about Taiwan...coincidance ? I think not .

Liasia']Because you seem to be saying NK's attack capability is somehow more scary than the nuclear arsenal's of the UK, France, the US etc.

However, each of these arsenals have rational people at the helm. NK has a madman leading it.

LMAO! Get a grip, dude.

I know. It's for humour, and it was featured on SNL not too long ago. OMG! OH NO!


What if you want to win ?


Silly US, we don't get into wars to win them, we get in so we can look tough! :rolleyes:

[sarcasm]

You go to war to beat the other guy to a pulp and crush him, nothing less.


However, each of these arsenals have rational people at the helm. NK has a madman leading it.

Yup.

duh, communist countries always have massed artillery....always.

Why is this such a panic?

I thought the American Armed Forces has much advanced technology that can shoot down the poorest country's missiles. What's there to panic about?

Unless, one of the world's poorest countries can make the big giant scared. Is the US challenged here? The poorest country has better arms than the richest. WTF.

North Korea is a bigger threat to the US than Iraq ever was.

As for having "better arms," that's absolute hogwash.

As Eutrusca said we can't, as of yet, shoot down artillery shells. Therefore there is the threat of mass death in a major land offensive. (This is part of old Soviet doctrine - massed artillery, major land offensives.) Sure, we could defeat them in a long war of attrition - but what has people "Scared" is that North Korea's got a gun to the head of civilians in South Korea and Japan, and to those civilians it will be little comfort if we kill North Korea after the trigger is pulled.

I don't think they will... but it doesn't help that we essentially have no real response to this kind of thing, particularly with our troops in Iraq, or pinned down in Arizona "defending the US economy" from "illegals."

COMMENTARY: North Korea is capable of launcing not only a missle attack against South Korea and Japan, but a massive artillery attack against South Korean population centers. What do you think about this?

It has been like that for like decades....what's new about it?

But "two armed societies are a war wating to happen?" :p

You just want to keep your guns while keeping your neighbor from having any you unAmerican traitor :p

Just remember the NK is defending there own borders, how would you feel if the UN, NATO, USA and/or other nations where knocking at your door? If I was Kim, I would full every missile, full of anything that would kill a man, “like gas, atomic or chemical warheads?” because I know, as soon as there tanks roll over your borders, you know your dead, so wouldn’t you try to kill as many as you can? Because I know I would. Just because you have the 4th largest army in the world, doesn’t mean your going win. They are testing every weapon they can make so they can hopefully save there butts and that’s a big deal to the USA because after they make a few and find out its no use to mass produce them, they sell them, just look at Iran! This is the last place on earth where the cold war is still going on, it’s all about ideals, and the north is based on old pro-Russian communism called Stalinism the other pro-American democracy. These people will fight it out or the US is going to invade and then dump the rest on South Korea. If the South wins, there isn’t going to be a north it just going to be changed to the Republic of Korea (that’s with the north and south together) and if the north wins it’s going to be the same thing but called The People’s Republic of Korea, different idea of how things will be run. I wish the best of luck to the north, because I wish if they will win if a war breaks out because give it 50 years its going to change from a dictatorship to a communist state to a single party democracy, just look at Cuba and Vietnam there already single party democracy’s they have changed on there own give them a chance to figure it out without any outside help… you know that’s not going to happen… so I say, “Don’t you just love the sweet smell of Napalm in the morning?” :sniper:

Can you say, "Tactical nuclear device" boys and girls?
That would have to be one pretty damn big tactical nuclear device...

http://cns.miis.edu/research/korea/dprkmil.htm
Read, learn, repent.

Just remember the NK is defending there own borders, how would you feel if the UN, NATO, USA and/or other nations where knocking at your door? If I was Kim, I would full every missile, full of anything that would kill a man, “like gas, atomic or chemical warheads?” because I know, as soon as there tanks roll over your borders, you know your dead, so wouldn’t you try to kill as many as you can? Because I know I would. Just because you have the 4th largest army in the world, doesn’t mean your going win. They are testing every weapon they can make so they can hopefully save there butts and that’s a big deal to the USA because after they make a few and find out its no use to mass produce them, they sell them, just look at Iran! This is the last place on earth where the cold war is still going on, it’s all about ideals, and the north is based on old pro-Russian communism called Stalinism the other pro-American democracy. These people will fight it out or the US is going to invade and then dump the rest on South Korea. If the South wins, there isn’t going to be a north it just going to be changed to the Republic of Korea (that’s with the north and south together) and if the north wins it’s going to be the same thing but called The People’s Republic of Korea, different idea of how things will be run. I wish the best of luck to the north, because I wish if they will win if a war breaks out because give it 50 years its going to change from a dictatorship to a communist state to a single party democracy, just look at Cuba and Vietnam there already single party democracy’s they have changed on there own give them a chance to figure it out without any outside help… you know that’s not going to happen… so I say, “Don’t you just love the sweet smell of Napalm in the morning?” :sniper:

Single party democracy?:rolleyes:

Just remember the NK is defending there own borders, how would you feel if the UN, NATO, USA and/or other nations where knocking at your door? If I was Kim, I would full every missile, full of anything that would kill a man, “like gas, atomic or chemical warheads?” because I know, as soon as there tanks roll over your borders, you know your dead, so wouldn’t you try to kill as many as you can? Because I know I would. Just because you have the 4th largest army in the world, doesn’t mean your going win. They are testing every weapon they can make so they can hopefully save there butts and that’s a big deal to the USA because after they make a few and find out its no use to mass produce them, they sell them, just look at Iran! This is the last place on earth where the cold war is still going on, it’s all about ideals, and the north is based on old pro-Russian communism called Stalinism the other pro-American democracy. These people will fight it out or the US is going to invade and then dump the rest on South Korea. If the South wins, there isn’t going to be a north it just going to be changed to the Republic of Korea (that’s with the north and south together) and if the north wins it’s going to be the same thing but called The People’s Republic of Korea, different idea of how things will be run. I wish the best of luck to the north, because I wish if they will win if a war breaks out because give it 50 years its going to change from a dictatorship to a communist state to a single party democracy, just look at Cuba and Vietnam there already single party democracy’s they have changed on there own give them a chance to figure it out without any outside help… you know that’s not going to happen… so I say, “Don’t you just love the sweet smell of Napalm in the morning?” :sniper:

To paraphrase Winston Churchill:
"Never in NS General has the one not understood the many by so much".

Personally, I'd let the US & NATO in for tea and biscuits.
The UN? Screw them, they always turn up late, make a mess of the place, and leave with the silverware. :(

Your examples are all of failed states that are clinging on to badly applied Communist theory. All of them were victims of cults of personality (Castro, Kims, and Ho (back in the day)).
Can't change? How about Poland, Hungary or the other dozen Communist countries that converted in the 90s?

Well, its been there for more than 50 years...

What's the point?

Can you say, "Tactical nuclear device" boys and girls?
Can you say, "All-out war with China if the US ever nuked NK"?

Just remember the NK is defending there own borders, how would you feel if the UN, NATO, USA and/or other nations where knocking at your door? If I was Kim, I would full every missile, full of anything that would kill a man, “like gas, atomic or chemical warheads?” because I know, as soon as there tanks roll over your borders, you know your dead, so wouldn’t you try to kill as many as you can? Because I know I would. Just because you have the 4th largest army in the world, doesn’t mean your going win. They are testing every weapon they can make so they can hopefully save there butts and that’s a big deal to the USA because after they make a few and find out its no use to mass produce them, they sell them, just look at Iran! This is the last place on earth where the cold war is still going on, it’s all about ideals, and the north is based on old pro-Russian communism called Stalinism the other pro-American democracy. These people will fight it out or the US is going to invade and then dump the rest on South Korea. If the South wins, there isn’t going to be a north it just going to be changed to the Republic of Korea (that’s with the north and south together) and if the north wins it’s going to be the same thing but called The People’s Republic of Korea, different idea of how things will be run. I wish the best of luck to the north, because I wish if they will win if a war breaks out because give it 50 years its going to change from a dictatorship to a communist state to a single party democracy, just look at Cuba and Vietnam there already single party democracy’s they have changed on there own give them a chance to figure it out without any outside help… you know that’s not going to happen… so I say, “Don’t you just love the sweet smell of Napalm in the morning?” :sniper:


Yeah a win for the north would result in 50 million South koreans being condemned to a prison camp, boy that would give the lefties something to mull over.... OMG North korea is opressing the masses...... but North Korean is socialist so it cant be... oh yes I remeber the terminology...... all south koreans are class traitors and conter revolutionaries.. and deserve 're-education' by 9mm bullet to the back of the head.

It's a justified, rational response to decades of US Imperialist warmongering against Juche and Glorious Leader Kim Jong-Il!
Not only that but South Korea has Arty as well, sure it wouldn't be 13,000 but that is irrelevant, America has too many Aircraft Carriers should we go to war with them?:rolleyes:

Not aimed at you TSI.

Personally, I'd let the US & NATO in for tea and biscuits.
The UN? Screw them, they always turn up late, make a mess of the place, and leave with the silverware. :(



You do realise it was the UN that took part in the Korean War right?

Liasia']*shrugs* I'm only 17, I was born one year before the fall of the berlin wall. For me, communism doesn't seem to carry the same weight of fear behind it as it does for some. History is full of illigitimate invasions, with one very recent one which springs to mind, but because the gov. behind this was communist everyone views it with a slant.

What in gods name are you ranting about? The United Nations supported the legitimate South Korean government against a Beijing-backed North Korean invasion, and after three bloody years of war ended the conflict, hopefully for good.

It doesn't matter if North Korea had been Communist, Fascist, Nazi or Capitalist. They were still an aggressive power invading a soverieign state. I fail to see how that can be criticised as an illegitimate invasion on the patr of the United Nations.

After reading all the posts and seeing the point of view from all sides, I am left with one plausible answer: Turn South Korea into an island.

It's been like that for 50 years buddy. My teacher this year told us that along the North-South Korean border there are more landmines then everywhere else in the world combinied. There's tanks, artillary, soldiers, machine guns, all that on both sides of the borders just waiting for the cease fire they signed in the 50's to end.(There's no set time for it to end, it's just if one person shoots I guess it's over) Go on google images and type in North Korean Border or something like that, they're might be pictures. Anyway, the south has the same setup though. They're only telling you about the North because people get scaed of their whole nuclear program.

And if they were to go back to war with each other, it's estimated that Seol (capital of south korea) would be leveled completly by artillary in 11 minutes, and that 2 million people would die in like 10 minutes, and that's on both sides. So don't worry, I don't think they'll be going back to war anytime soon.

Liasia']*shrugs* I'm only 17, I was born one year before the fall of the berlin wall. For me, communism doesn't seem to carry the same weight of fear behind it as it does for some. History is full of illigitimate invasions, with one very recent one which springs to mind, but because the gov. behind this was communist everyone views it with a slant.


some cold war history.......which starts in 1944

Red army pours across Poland liberating it...and get to within 5 miles of Warsaw.... Polish home army and resistance rises to liberate Warsaw, germans spend 2 months pounding the city and people into the dust... red army just sits there, and Stalin wont allow RAF/USAAF planes to use liberated polish airfields to re-supply Warsaw

1947 Communist takeover of most countries under soviet control
1956 Hungarians rebel against soviet imposed government.... USSR sends in the troops.... 1000's killed
1968 Prague spring..... bought to an end by USSR sending in the troops
1979 Afganistan soviet backed leader toppled in coup..... yupp you guessed it... USSR sends in the troops.

Not forgetting to mention Korea, Vietnam, Cuba(1962 springs to mind) and a hundred other incidents and proxy wars when things could have spiralled out of control with the result one side or t'other presses the button marked 'to end civilization, launch all missiles by pressing this button' with the result I'd have 10-15 minutes to consider how lucky I was to have such a good life*:eek:

El-Presidente Boris

* of course if my life had'nt been good, I could consider how lucky I was that it would only last another 10-15 minutes :D

WangWee is the only true "wang" I know of? :D

Which explains why you're so pissed off at the universe.

COMMENTARY: North Korea is capable of launcing not only a missle attack against South Korea and Japan, but a massive artillery attack against South Korean population centers. What do you think about this?


North Korean Guns,
Clear and Present Danger to South (http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/world/international-korea-north-artillery.html)


By REUTERS
Published: June 27, 2006
Filed at 5:26 a.m. ET

But for South Korea, a more immediate danger may be North Korea's artillery.

The capital Seoul, only 60 km (37 miles) south of the heavily fortified Demilitarized Zone that has divided the peninsula since the end of the Korean War in 1953, has long been within range of one of the world's most powerful artillery batteries.

South Korea's Defense Ministry said the North had amassed more than 13,000 pieces of artillery and multiple rocket launchers, much of it aimed at Seoul.

Jane's International Defense Review estimates that if North Korea launched an all-out barrage, it could achieve an initial fire rate of 300,000 to 500,000 shells per hour into the Seoul area -- home to about half the country's 48.5 million people.

The biggest are 170-mm self-propelled artillery guns and 240-mm multiple rocket launchers. It also has hundreds of Scud missiles that could hit any part of South Korea.
Duh.

And everyone dismisses it so easily when I say it. :rolleyes:

You can't fight North Korea without sacrificing the South. One salvo from each gun position and the capital is gone just the same as if it was nuked.

Duh.

And everyone dismisses it so easily when I say it. :rolleyes:

You can't fight North Korea without sacrificing the South. One salvo from each gun position and the capital is gone just the same as if it was nuked.

Sacrificing Seoul and every military installation within firing range of the border. Already knew that one.

You do realise it was the UN that took part in the Korean War right?

Of course. But one good act 50 years ago does not a good friend make.
Or so some of the European members of NS seem to keep implying about the US. :D

I guess this is why the capital of SK will be moved to Pusan.

Liasia']Should of let them get on with it. Stop the spread of communism, sure, shame about the millions of lives it cost tho eh?
Yes, as we know, the spread of Stalinist communism has historically been bloodless. :rolleyes:

Liasia']Still, the US shouldn't have interfered. Imprealism in denial.
Well, the US had its own interests at heart, but they weren't out to rule Korea.

It's not imperialist to defend an ally from an aggressor. It was quite similar to the Allied invasion of France in 1944.

Once again, the Leftists of NS are defending Communist Imperialism...Why I am not surprised?
Well, one leftist, and there are a few other leftists arguing against him.

Liasia']*shrugs* I'm only 17, I was born one year before the fall of the berlin wall. For me, communism doesn't seem to carry the same weight of fear behind it as it does for some. History is full of illigitimate invasions, with one very recent one which springs to mind, but because the gov. behind this was communist everyone views it with a slant.
Whatever your opinion of communism, the government of North Korea is aggressive, oppressive and evil. And not genuinely communist at all, for that matter.

Of course. But one good act 50 years ago does not a good friend make.
Or so some of the European members of NS seem to keep implying about the US. :D
I can't believe that someone actually born in Europe is putting forth this US supremacist neocon ideology. The US is part of the UN, not a "friend" of it.

I guess this is why the capital of SK will be moved to Pusan.

The actual proposal is to move the capital to Chungchong Province, which is closer to Taejon.

Well, the US had its own interests at heart, but they weren't out to rule Korea.

It's not imperialist to defend an ally from an aggressor. It was quite similar to the Allied invasion of France in 1944.


Well, one leftist, and there are a few other leftists arguing against him.


Whatever your opinion of communism, the government of North Korea is aggressive, oppressive and evil. And not genuinely communist at all, for that matter.

North Korea is not communist in any sense of the word. It is an authoritarian despotic regime with the intent to gain supremacy over the Korean peninsula by any means possible. They've tried war, they've tried subversion tactics, they've tried kidnapping citizens, they've tried random border incursions, they've tried anti-Western appeals, and they've even tried to win over hearts [other than by calling the USA an imperialist bloodsucker...]. The massive array of artillery, missiles, manpower, etc aimed at Seoul and Tokyo [both cities are target - the former because it's strategic, and the latter because they still really hate Japan] is to send a message to anyone that they will get hurt if someone tries to hurt them, even China.

It's only perhaps fortunate that half of the country is either starving or barely starving because of crop failures. But even then, eventually Korea will become unified - the real question is under what regime. [here's to hoping that North Korea runs dry of intelligent leaders that are conceited or they wise up and surrender...]

I can't believe that someone actually born in Europe is putting forth this US supremacist neocon ideology. The US is part of the UN, not a "friend" of it.

It's neocon to not like the UN? News to me.
NB: The UN didn't to SQUAT when Czechoslovakia was invaded. Nor did they do anything about Hungary in '56.

However, please reread what I'd said:
The UN? Screw them, they always turn up late, make a mess of the place, and leave with the silverware.

...I was alluding to the UN's practice of not showing up (Do Rwanda, Jugoslavia and Sudan/Darfur ring a bell), making a mess and stealing (food for oil scandal, sex for food scandal).

There is 0% US Supremecy in that statement, and 0% neoconism.

I work in the Chrysler Buildling. The UN is about three blocks away. All they do is jam traffic and not pay their parking tickets! :D


As for my anti-US euro jibe: It is very existant in some of the more vocal posters. Really.

...I was alluding to the UN's practice of not showing up (Do Rwanda, Jugoslavia and Sudan/Darfur ring a bell), making a mess and stealing (food for oil scandal, sex for food scandal).




Dont tell the NY Times its a secret ....shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :D

You're not so tough... We all know Cindy Sheehan and her homosexual muslim brigade scare the crap out of you.

Rofl, Cindy Sheehan is in Canada now, cooperating with defectors from the US military (probably during the vietnam war). I bet she is living in the woods with a bunch of mountain men.

You do realise it was the UN that took credit for fighting in the Korean War right?

Fixed. U.S. forces did most of the fighting, and the Marines did most of the winning. :D

Rofl, Cindy Sheehan is in Canada now, cooperating with defectors from the US military (probably during the vietnam war). I bet she is living in the woods with a bunch of mountain men.

I can only hope that she either gets eaten by a very hungry and rare carnivorous moose, or she finds here true soulmates (les Quebecois) and settles down up there.

Fixed. U.S. forces did most of the fighting, and the Marines did most of the winning. :D
Gee, aren't we glad that Americans give credit to their Allies. The Koreans did most of the fighting and dying (the Americans were only one third of the UN Forces). And some of the hardest battles involved mostly British, Canadian, the Philippines or other Commonwealth Forces.

http://www.korean-war.com/unitednations.html

I see two possible ways around this sticky tactical situation...

1: Intimidate them by making an "example" of Iran....Bunker-Bust the shit out their nuclear R&D sites, and maybe use a Nuclear Bunker-Buster on a deep complex to make sure Kim knows we'll use it...

Hopeful Resolution: Kim Folds Diplomatically.

2: Allow China to invade NK from the north....Kim will move his forces to counter the Chinese threat, and leave his southern border weakened...

Hopeful Resolution: Peacefully Split NK Between SK and China. Destroy Nuclear Threat.

Comments?

I see two possible ways around this sticky tactical situation...

1: Intimidate them by making an "example" of Iran....Bunker-Bust the shit out their nuclear R&D sites, and maybe use a Nuclear Bunker-Buster on a deep complex to make sure Kim knows we'll use it...

Hopeful Resolution: Kim Folds Diplomatically.

2: Allow China to invade NK from the north....Kim will move his forces to counter the Chinese threat, and leave his southern border weakened...

Hopeful Resolution: Peacefully Split NK Between SK and China. Destroy Nuclear Threat.

Comments?

1. While Kim went into hiding for months during the invasion of Iraq, it is unlikely that a bombing of Iran would do the same thing. Likewise, there is far too much to bomb effectively -- it's not like Iraq in 1982 for Israel.
Also, seeing the West tied up in Iran, Kim will stall for time.

2. Allow? How would we STOP them?
Anyway, that is as unlikely of a scenario as France re-occupying Algeria: what would be gained?

They ain't gonna put 13'000 Artillary pieces in one area!

Gee, aren't we glad that Americans give credit to their Allies. The Koreans did most of the fighting and dying (the Americans were only one third of the UN Forces). And some of the hardest battles involved mostly British, Canadian, the Philippines or other Commonwealth Forces.

http://www.korean-war.com/unitednations.html

It's allright. It's not called 'The Forgotten War' for nothing...

Gee, aren't we glad that Americans give credit to their Allies. The Koreans did most of the fighting and dying (the Americans were only one third of the UN Forces). And some of the hardest battles involved mostly British, Canadian, the Philippines or other Commonwealth Forces.

http://www.korean-war.com/unitednations.html

Don't point things like that out.

Their heads will explode if they have to agree that the UN did something good and positive for the world.

It's neocon to not like the UN? News to me.
NB: The UN didn't to SQUAT when Czechoslovakia was invaded. Nor did they do anything about Hungary in '56.

However, please reread what I'd said:
The UN? Screw them, they always turn up late, make a mess of the place, and leave with the silverware.

...I was alluding to the UN's practice of not showing up (Do Rwanda, Jugoslavia and Sudan/Darfur ring a bell), making a mess and stealing (food for oil scandal, sex for food scandal).

There is 0% US Supremecy in that statement, and 0% neoconism.

I work in the Chrysler Buildling. The UN is about three blocks away. All they do is jam traffic and not pay their parking tickets! :D


As for my anti-US euro jibe: It is very existant in some of the more vocal posters. Really.

Everytime you blame the UN, you collectively blame our own governments. This is no 'us' and 'the UN'- there is only the UN.

If you say that UN didn't do anything to prevent Rwanda, Darfur, Hungary 1956, Prague (although those last two are Cold War and that makes it more tricky) you are also saying you own government didn't do anything to prevent it either. I agree with on those issues, but it's not ''there's the UN and then there's us''.

Remember that.

Don't point things like that out.

Their heads will explode if they have to agree that the UN did something good and positive for the world.

It was the last time. After that, the UN has a spectacular record of putting "peacekeepers" in situations where their role is chiefly to aid and abet one party in committing genocide, if only by standing there and watching.

2. Allow? How would we STOP them?
A Treaty. Also, as NK forces draw to the North, we will rapidly take territory coming up behind them. China will have no choice but to stop where the line is drawn, or risk starting a war. They're not that stupid.

Obviously, a "backroom deal" will be needed between China, the US, and South Korea to work all that out. But it can be done.

Anyway, that is as unlikely of a scenario as France re-occupying Algeria: what would be gained?
For China? Gee, I dunno, get rid of a madman on their border who wants nuclear weapons? And also, to get more territory for their empire? Just a guess...We would also get the safety of knowing we stopped Kim from getting weapons, and we'd gain more territory and reunite most of Korea under a democratic government.

Everytime you blame the UN, you collectively blame our own governments. This is no 'us' and 'the UN'- there is only the UN.

If you say that UN didn't do anything to prevent Rwanda, Darfur, Hungary 1956, Prague (although those last two are Cold War and that makes it more tricky) you are also saying you own government didn't do anything to prevent it either. I agree with on those issues, but it's not ''there's the UN and then there's us''.

Remember that.

Excellent point, well made.

I see two possible ways around this sticky tactical situation...

1: Intimidate them by making an "example" of Iran....Bunker-Bust the shit out their nuclear R&D sites, and maybe use a Nuclear Bunker-Buster on a deep complex to make sure Kim knows we'll use it...

Hopeful Resolution: Kim Folds Diplomatically.

Impossible. That would undoubtedly lead to a war with Iran, and with that, not NK, on the governments' and public mind, Kim would know that while embroiled in Iran an attack on NK would be impossible. If anything, the North would go South, no pun intended.

2: Allow China to invade NK from the north....Kim will move his forces to counter the Chinese threat, and leave his southern border weakened...

Hopeful Resolution: Peacefully Split NK Between SK and China. Destroy Nuclear Threat.

Comments?

It is unacceptable to invade a totalitarian dictatorship, and then split it between another totalitarian dictatorship and a democracy by drawing arbitary lines on a map. China would anyway be better off without any of Korea at all - they know the west can, and should, pay to rebuild the North.

It's neocon to not like the UN? News to me.
NB: The UN didn't to SQUAT when Czechoslovakia was invaded. Nor did they do anything about Hungary in '56.

However, please reread what I'd said:
The UN? Screw them, they always turn up late, make a mess of the place, and leave with the silverware.

...I was alluding to the UN's practice of not showing up (Do Rwanda, Jugoslavia and Sudan/Darfur ring a bell), making a mess and stealing (food for oil scandal, sex for food scandal).

See, when you speak of the UN as if it's a foreign country my neo-con alert bells go off. The US is a strong member of the UN. Why not blame the members, including the US, for its failures rather than a body which is powerless without them?

I see two possible ways around this sticky tactical situation...

1: Intimidate them by making an "example" of Iran....Bunker-Bust the shit out their nuclear R&D sites, and maybe use a Nuclear Bunker-Buster on a deep complex to make sure Kim knows we'll use it...

Hopeful Resolution: Kim Folds Diplomatically.

2: Allow China to invade NK from the north....Kim will move his forces to counter the Chinese threat, and leave his southern border weakened...

Hopeful Resolution: Peacefully Split NK Between SK and China. Destroy Nuclear Threat.

Comments?
1. He won't back down over that.

2. Even worse idea. China won't stop until they take all of Korea.

Everytime you blame the UN, you collectively blame our own governments. This is no 'us' and 'the UN'- there is only the UN.

If you say that UN didn't do anything to prevent Rwanda, Darfur, Hungary 1956, Prague (although those last two are Cold War and that makes it more tricky) you are also saying you own government didn't do anything to prevent it either. I agree with on those issues, but it's not ''there's the UN and then there's us''.

Remember that.

When your country is invaded by a superpower and five other alleged "allies", and the UN does NOTHING because it's bylaws don't allow it to, then one can bitch at the UN.

The government in Prague tried EVERYTHING to prevent 1968. They failed.
The US sure as hell wasn't going to mess in a sphere of Soviet influence on its own, nor would NATO (being a defensive organization).
That leaves... THE UN. And it did squat.

The UN needs a massive overhaul:
* India, Japan, Brazil and Germany all need permanent seats on the Security Council.
* SC voting needs to be by 2/3rds majority -- no more of the (US's!) beloved single veto.
* A country that is listed as a human rights violator CANNOT SIT on the Human Rights Council!
* UN resolutions need teeth -- non-compliance for 180 days means censure. 360 means sanctions. 720 means intervention.

... and blaming the UN is NOT blaming your own government. It's blaming an organization whose bylaws are barely better than the failed League of Nations.

See, when you speak of the UN as if it's a foreign country my neo-con alert bells go off. The US is a strong member of the UN.
Why not blame the members, including the US, for its failures rather than a body which is powerless without them?

When did I speak of it as a foreign nation?!? I spoke of it as an ineffective entity!!!

Because the UN is SUPPOSED to be a forum for resolution. And while the US has weilded the most vetoes in the UN, it's not like it gets its way that often, either.
The UN is powerless w/o its members, sure. But it's also become corrupted and is a sham of what it should be.

A Treaty. Also, as NK forces draw to the North, we will rapidly take territory coming up behind them. China will have no choice but to stop where the line is drawn, or risk starting a war. They're not that stupid.

Obviously, a "backroom deal" will be needed between China, the US, and South Korea to work all that out. But it can be done.

A treaty? My point was that the US really can't stop China from invading NK if it wanted to, thus my "Allow?" question.

Stupid? Hardly! The Chinese would welcome a land war in Korea. They could bleed the West white (who in the US/EU wants the draft back?), take the WHOLE Korean continent and possibly attack Japan.

For China? Gee, I dunno, get rid of a madman on their border who wants nuclear weapons? And also, to get more territory for their empire? Just a guess...We would also get the safety of knowing we stopped Kim from getting weapons, and we'd gain more territory and reunite most of Korea under a democratic government.

* That's to China's advantage. They're MODERATES as long as NK is the bad guy.
* China hardly needs more land. Almost the entire western half of the country has a population of 2 people per square kilometer, if that.
* China has no desire to strengthen South Korea. They are a competitor, and an enemy that fought against the Chinese in 3 wars during the 20th century.
* China also has no desire to spread Democracy. It is still a Communist country politically. It may change/evolve, but if it works for regime change in NK, why the hell wouldn't the Chinese soldiers/people rise up and demand reform at home?

Impossible. That would undoubtedly lead to a war with Iran, and with that, not NK, on the governments' and public mind, Kim would know that while embroiled in Iran an attack on NK would be impossible. If anything, the North would go South, no pun intended.
We can decimate the Irani army with Airstrikes alone. No need for boots on the ground. Besides, it's not like we have'nt done two wars at once before (WW2).

It is unacceptable to invade a totalitarian dictatorship, and then split it between another totalitarian dictatorship and a democracy by drawing arbitary lines on a map.
We split Germany between the Soviets and allies at the end of World War 2.

China would anyway be better off without any of Korea at all - they know the west can, and should, pay to rebuild the North.
Nobody can rebuild until Kim is out.

1. He won't back down over that.

2. Even worse idea. China won't stop until they take all of Korea.
1: Why? It shows him we have the willpower to do such a thing. It shows him we won't bluff and then not do anything when they call us on it.

2: And start a war with the West (which they cannot win), and wreck their economy at the same time? You seem to take the Chinese as idiots.

A treaty? My point was that the US really can't stop China from invading NK if it wanted to, thus my "Allow?" question.
You're right. China could invade if we wanted them too or not...What I meant was a Treaty to divide the land between the two sides peacefully.

Stupid? Hardly! The Chinese would welcome a land war in Korea. They could bleed the West white (who in the US/EU wants the draft back?), take the WHOLE Korean continent and possibly attack Japan.
Bleed the West white? Do you have any idea the backlash an all-out war started by China would cause? It'd be WW2 all over again, people will sign up to fight them worldwide, and the draft will even be started again.

And with the modernized military of the west behind us, we'd crush them...Manpower does'nt win out over technology, especially at our levels. That, and their precious economy would crumble overnight.

You seem to be underestimating the intelligence of the Chinese and underestimating the military strength of the western world.
* That's to China's advantage. They're MODERATES as long as NK is the bad guy.
Moderate does'nt mean shit when you're lying dead in nuclear rubble...

* China hardly needs more land. Almost the entire western half of the country has a population of 2 people per square kilometer, if that.
Need is different than want...They want an empire.

* China also has no desire to spread Democracy. It is still a Communist country politically. It may change/evolve, but if it works for regime change in NK, why the hell wouldn't the Chinese soldiers/people rise up and demand reform at home?
I'm not saying there'd be democracy for the Chinese half of North Korea, I was saying there'd be democracy on the South Korean half.

We can decimate the Irani army with Airstrikes alone. No need for boots on the ground. Besides, it's not like we have'nt done two wars at once before (WW2).

We split Germany between the Soviets and allies at the end of World War 2.

Nobody can rebuild until Kim is out.

That was then. Unless NK did something crazy (say, nuked Seattle), the American people would NOT stand a draft.
And, BTW, air power has never won a war. Been a major facet? Sure. But you still need the guy with the rifle to go in.

And? What do you propose: Make a "North North Korea" and a "South North Korea"??
Another partition isn't going to help anybody. Ask Poland. They had 4, and none of them did THEM any good.


1: Why? It shows him we have the willpower to do such a thing. It shows him we won't bluff and then not do anything when they call us on it.

2: And start a war with the West (which they cannot win), and wreck their economy at the same time? You seem to take the Chinese as idiots.

Please don't reply to multiple people in the same reply. It can be confusing.


You're right. China could invade if we wanted them too or not...What I meant was a Treaty to divide the land between the two sides peacefully.

There is no way China would want that. Please see my closing paragraph below as to why.

Bleed the West white? Do you have any idea the backlash an all-out war started by China would cause? It'd be WW2 all over again, people will sign up to fight them worldwide, and the draft will even be started again.

And with the modernized military of the west behind us, we'd crush them...Manpower does'nt win out over technology, especially at our levels. That, and their precious economy would crumble overnight.

You seem to be underestimating the intelligence of the Chinese and underestimating the military strength of the western world.

Yep. Total pandemonium. But not quite as WW2: China taking all of Korea for itself won't bother all that many Dubliners, Detroiters, or Dortmunders. Really.

You think so? The Chinese can MARCH to NK. Their entire nation can mobilize and fight with a minimal logistical train.

The EU has no heavy lift capacity and cannot move any signifigant amount troops by air without US assistance. And the US? It can fight 2 wars at once. The middle east is already one. Even with the bases in Japan and SK, it would be a very, very costly fight. Never mind actually getting reinforcements there. How long would the 40,000 or so US forces in SK last against a million Chinese? Two million? Four?

No, not at all. I estimate that the Chinese could do a hell of a lot of damage if they wanted to. Also, our technology isn't so far ahead that it is invincible. One EMP (and in NK, who would care?) and *boom* we're blind as a bat and have no smart munitions.

Moderate does'nt mean shit when you're lying dead in nuclear rubble...

Why would NK nuke China? Makes no sense. China helped them in the War, and is their closest ally.
That's like Great Britain worrying if France will nuke it.

Need is different than want...They want an empire.

They can barely contain the 1 billion people they have now. Incorporating new lands would only make things even worse! I seriously do NOT believe that the Chinese Communist Party is seeking Imperialism.

I'm not saying there'd be democracy for the Chinese half of North Korea, I was saying there'd be democracy on the South Korean half.

They already have it. And if China were to fight to overthrow a brother (read: another legitimate Communist leadership), then they would be EXACTLY where the French were after supporting the Americans against the British. Formenting rebellion away against your own type of governance is not in your best interest. The French King paid for aiding the Americans against their brother (Monarch) England with the destruction of his own house.

That was then. Unless NK did something crazy (say, nuked Seattle), the American people would NOT stand a draft.
And, BTW, air power has never won a war. Been a major facet? Sure. But you still need the guy with the rifle to go in.
No we don't...Remember the 1990s', when Clinton bombed Afghanistan and Iraq? No boots on the ground then...All it would be is a much more expansive bombing than the one he ordered...

And? What do you propose: Make a "North North Korea" and a "South North Korea"??
Another partition isn't going to help anybody. Ask Poland. They had 4, and none of them did THEM any good.
Poland is Poland. Korea is Korea. What does'nt work in some cases may work in another.

Please don't reply to multiple people in the same reply. It can be confusing.

Ok.

Yep. Total pandemonium. But not quite as WW2: China taking all of Korea for itself won't bother all that many Dubliners, Detroiters, or Dortmunders. Really.

You think so? The Chinese can MARCH to NK. Their entire nation can mobilize and fight with a minimal logistical train.

The EU has no heavy lift capacity and cannot move any signifigant amount troops by air without US assistance. And the US? It can fight 2 wars at once. The middle east is already one. Even with the bases in Japan and SK, it would be a very, very costly fight. Never mind actually getting reinforcements there. How long would the 40,000 or so US forces in SK last against a million Chinese? Two million? Four?

No, not at all. I estimate that the Chinese could do a hell of a lot of damage if they wanted to. Also, our technology isn't so far ahead that it is invincible. One EMP (and in NK, who would care?) and *boom* we're blind as a bat and have no smart munitions.
You make a good argument, but do we know they have the capability for pure EMP bombs?

Why would NK nuke China? Makes no sense. China helped them in the War, and is their closest ally.
That's like Great Britain worrying if France will nuke it.
North Koreas' dictator is unstable mentally. Also, they will very likely try to sell to Al Queda and other groups. What about that potential threat?

I see allot of criticisms of potential intervention plans, but not allot of suggestions as to what to do.

No we don't...Remember the 1990s', when Clinton bombed Afghanistan and Iraq? No boots on the ground then...All it would be is a much more expansive bombing than the one he ordered...

And it achived... what?

Poland is Poland. Korea is Korea. What does'nt work in some cases may work in another.

He whom does not draw lessons from history is bound to repeat it. Are you saying that it's a good thing that the Korea is still divided?

You make a good argument, but do we know they have the capability for pure EMP bombs?

What's a pure EMP bomb? :confused:
An EMP is the secondary product of a nuclear explosion. Hit the ocean with a big enough bomb (preferably on a Nimitz class aircraft carrier off the coast?) and no electronics for awhile in that area.

North Koreas' dictator is unstable mentally. Also, they will very likely try to sell to Al Queda and other groups. What about that potential threat?

It's a very tanglible one. Just not to the Chinese.
Heck, if they're Machiavellian enough, they'd FAVOR such a thing.

I see allot of criticisms of potential intervention plans, but not allot of suggestions as to what to do.

Wait and sabotage. It worked against the Soviets.

When I first saw the title of this thread, I thought maybe we Cannucks were amassing artillery along the border with the US. :p
That would have amused me, up until the point that the US managed to get enough troops mobilized to invade us. :p

I think North Korea and the rest of the world should try and get to know each other. Like you know, invite state leaders over for a dinner party. Bush invites Kim to the U.S. for some Texan style beef steaks. Blair invites Kim over to the U.K. to have tea and biscuits and chill for a bit. Vice-versa, Kim should invite leaders over to N. Korea and enjoy some North Korean style kimchi! :)

When I first saw the title of this thread, I thought maybe we Cannucks were amassing artillery along the border with the US. :p
That would have amused me, up until the point that the US managed to get enough troops mobilized to invade us. :p

Hmmm... what sort of mobilization would that take? A Cub Scout Jamboree? :D

(Just kidding, we love you guys! We promised, no more invasions since we made nice after the War of 1812...)

I think North Korea and the rest of the world should try and get to know each other. Like you know, invite state leaders over for a dinner party. Bush invites Kim to the U.S. for some Texan style beef steaks. Blair invites Kim over to the U.K. to have tea and biscuits and chill for a bit. Vice-versa, Kim should invite leaders over to N. Korea and enjoy some North Korean style kimchi! :)

Kim ripped off Godzilla. We must be wary! After all, once Kim sees Memphis, we'll see an NK Elvis... where will it all end?!? :eek:

http://www.monsterlandtoys.com/video/Pulgasari.gif

Kim ripped off Godzilla. We must be wary! After all, once Kim sees Memphis, we'll see an NK Elvis... where will it all end?!? :eek:

http://www.monsterlandtoys.com/video/Pulgasari.gif

Well, I'm curious to see Elvis's greatest hits in Korean... :p

And it achived... what?
The difference between then and now, of course, will be that we will do enough damage to actually make a difference.

Objectives:
1: Demolish most military bases.
2: Demolish all R&D sites.
3: Destroy Irani Air Force


He whom does not draw lessons from history is bound to repeat it. Are you saying that it's a good thing that the Korea is still divided?
Of course not. Too bad we were caught off-gaurd after the end of WW2. The splitting of Korea was actually one of the main reasons for the defense budget to skyrocket afterwards.

What's a pure EMP bomb? :confused:
An EMP is the secondary product of a nuclear explosion. Hit the ocean with a big enough bomb (preferably on a Nimitz class aircraft carrier off the coast?) and no electronics for awhile in that area.
You think they'd risk using a nuke?

It's a very tanglible one. Just not to the Chinese.
Heck, if they're Machiavellian enough, they'd FAVOR such a thing.
Wait and sabotage. It worked against the Soviets.
What about starving him out? Blockade his ports and make his army hungry...Heck, might even be a coup there...

The difference between then and now, of course, will be that we will do enough damage to actually make a difference.

Objectives:
1: Demolish most military bases.
2: Demolish all R&D sites.
3: Destroy Irani Air Force

Those are indeed great goals. However, even with the might of US air power, #2 is nearly impossible. We might get 50 or even 90%, but not all.

However, those goals have nothing to do with my point: the Clinton (air) attacks in the 90s did just about nothing to Iraq nor Afghanistan. Air power alone cannot win wars. It probably never will, just as sea power never has.

Of course not. Too bad we were caught off-gaurd after the end of WW2. The splitting of Korea was actually one of the main reasons for the defense budget to skyrocket afterwards.

Ayep, it was a factor.

You think they'd risk using a nuke?

What risk? If they're going to keep NK, they NEED an EMP to render our modern munitions and intel worthless.
They needen't send up enough rads to kill lots of people. Hell, they could disguise it as a WESTERN attack or an accident, whatever.

What about starving him out? Blockade his ports and make his army hungry...Heck, might even be a coup there...

Starve who out? NK has already starved millions of people, with hundreds of thousands dead.
http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engasa240032004

The society is too far gone for a coup: they've been living in a world so cut off and so isolated that there is no way for it to happen.

I was well-aware of the starvation going on...Most of the food is given to his military...What I was saying was, that if we cut off even that food, his army would starve and weaken.

Anyway, I think you are overestimating Chinas' wanting to attack us...If you say they're not wanting of an empire, why would attacking the west make any sence? Turning them into an international pariah, isolating themselves, inviting the armies of the west to push them back into their own borders, and at the same time crushing their growing economy? It would make no damned sense....

Yes, they might be able to pull off that EMP crap near their own land, or on a land of a country with no nukes, but once they reach Allied/nuke-bearing countries, doing it could risk nuclear annihilation...Why would they do it?