NationStates Jolt Archive

It's started. Wonder how it will turn out. Wonder where Meggido is.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/27/D8IGPTP00.html

More details...
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/731555.html

Here's where we find out whether or not Hamas plans to give the guy up.

Dont you just wish these countries didnt exist....

Dont you just wish these countries didnt exist....
What would CNN do for programming tonight if they didn't exist? Show more Katrina stuff? That can't be good for ratings.

Guide to Isreal and Palestine: Here's a synopsis: One side does something, the other side retaliates, the first retaliates for the retaliation, then the others retaliate for the retaliation of the retaliation, and then the first retaliates for that...

This latest intifada is *yawn* like its predecessors. Wake me up when they have peace. That'll be newsworthy.

My bet is on Israel, any takers?

Dont you just wish these countries didnt exist....

No, not really, for if they were not there where would they be. Having an ultra-Jewish state neighboring several neo-Muslim states may not be the best way to get "those Jews" out of Europe and to have just left the Middle East-India adrift but really they all helped in some way to contribute to Modern countries. How would have Britain be without it's colonies, how would it have had enough resources to combat Germany -not that Germany was bad, just everything would probably be a lot different and I like the things like they are now-. If the Middle East wasn't there (and probably you mean India also, with it's problems with Pakistan) with India who would have been the focus point with Japan through so much of its resources against. China sure wouldn't have lasted morethan a year if both the resources of Burma was thrown with the orignal forces. Then how would have America won?

So really, no matter how much we hate them, they o count in the long run.

What would CNN do for programming tonight if they didn't exist? Show more Katrina stuff? That can't be good for ratings.
Good point. Or maybe the bbc could go back to the whole bird flu thing...:rolleyes:

It's started. Wonder how it will turn out. Wonder where Meggido is.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/Megiddo_localisation.png

No, not really, for if they were not there where would they be. Having an ultra-Jewish state neighboring several neo-Muslim states may not be the best way to get "those Jews" out of Europe and to have just left the Middle East-India adrift but really they all helped in some way to contribute to Modern countries. How would have Britain be without it's colonies, how would it have had enough resources to combat Germany -not that Germany was bad, just everything would probably be a lot different and I like the things like they are now-. If the Middle East wasn't there (and probably you mean India also, with it's problems with Pakistan) with India who would have been the focus point with Japan through so much of its resources against. China sure wouldn't have lasted morethan a year if both the resources of Burma was thrown with the orignal forces. Then how would have America won?

So really, no matter how much we hate them, they o count in the long run.
Woah. Read a little to far into my comment there! lol. I didnt mean the middle east, just israel n palistine. Fair points though i guess...

Maybe if the Israelis completely obliterate the Occupied Territories down to the last man, woman and child someone'll finally wake up to what utter assholes they have become. Or everyone'll cheer and prove that humanity is too wretched to be allowed to live.

Let the games begin! Finally, some good old fashioned combat...it's been far too long since Israel last unloaded a good airstrike.

BBC news is showing it live.

lets have a side bet on how many civilians the IDF go through tonight

This is it: This is the Israeli show of force that will convince the desperate refugees that they have been wrong to support Hamas all these years and the young palestinians will instead cheer the Israeli troops that bulldoze their houses and harass them at checkpoints. This won't generate another wave of bitter despration leading to another increase in militant recruiting. Soon, all will be duckies and bunnies. :)

Maybe if the Israelis completely obliterate the Occupied Territories down to the last man, woman and child someone'll finally wake up to what utter assholes they have become. Or everyone'll cheer and prove that humanity is too wretched to be allowed to live.
B.

This is it: This is the Israeli show of force that will convince the desperate refugees that they have been wrong to support Hamas all these years and the young palestinians will instead cheer the Israeli troops that bulldoze their houses and harass them at checkpoints. This won't generate another wave of bitter despration leading to another increase in militant recruiting. Soon, all will be duckies and bunnies. :)
Precisely, the Israelis should instead acquiese to the kidnappers' demands, providing reinforcement to the idea that murdering and capturing IDF soldiers will produce favorable results for the Palestinian militants.

Let the games begin! Finally, some good old fashioned combat...it's been far too long since Israel last unloaded a good airstrike.
Aaaaahhhh, another warmonger. Sad.

BBC news is showing it live.
BBC 24 or whatever its called?

Precisely, the Israelis should instead acquiese to the kidnappers' demands, providing reinforcement to the idea that murdering and capturing IDF soldiers will produce favorable results for the Palestinian militants.

there is a happy medium im sure. somewhere between surrender and a full scale military assault on one of the most densly populated places on earth.

no chance hamas will recongnise israel now.

Woah, apparently Israel are going for it right now! Well by that i mean, entered the territory Quote: BBC news

Precisely, the Israelis should instead acquiese to the kidnappers' demands, providing reinforcement to the idea that murdering and capturing IDF soldiers will produce favorable results for the Palestinian militants.

Of course. How dare they attack military personnel?!? They're supposed to bomb malls and pool halls! The bastards switched tactics! :mad:

Of course. How dare they attack military personnel?!? They're supposed to bomb malls and pool halls! The bastards switched tactics! :mad:
Exactly; they have to learn to let incidents like these go unopposed.

Let the games begin! Finally, some good old fashioned combat...it's been far too long since Israel last unloaded a good airstrike.

Aaaaahhhh, another warmonger. Sad.

War is Peace
Slavery is Freedom

Get with the program!

Exactly; they have to learn to let incidents like these go unopposed.

Unfortunately, neither have the Palestinians.

So the incidents will keep happening. But maybe when they're all dead, the duckies and bunnie will come out to play. :)

Unfortunately, neither have the Palestinians.

So the incidents will keep happening. But maybe when they're all dead, the duckies and bunnie will come out to play. :)

Maybe if the US pounded the place with 100 nuclear warheads or so, the problem would just go away. And no one could go live there afterwards.

There have been shots of Israeli mod M113 Zeldas and some Pumas as well, mostly sitting in the dark waiting.

Most recent news is that Israel launched an airstrike against Gaza City's power station, cutting power to most of the city. They've begun moving in as of about 30 minutes ago, and there's some light fighting.

War is Peace
Slavery is Freedom

Get with the program!
They have been trying this program from the beginning of time. Time to change the program. :D

I actually have a plan to deal with Isreal/Palestine. Temporarily move everyone to cruise ships, then (using the Army Corps of Engineers) flatten the land and buldoze all the cities/houses/streets. Build a big wall all the way around the land, to prevent other countries from interfering in the affairs of the Isrealies and the Palestinians, and build a big wall to split the territory exactly in half. The Isrealies would live on one side, and the Palestinians would live on the other side (both would have approximately the same sea access). Also in my plan, Palestine would become its own autonomous state.

Then there shouldn't be ANY violence between the 2 countries, and the US could start reducing the aid to Isreal, seeing as they should be safe (and the US could really use the money for other things).

Wonder where Meggido is.
That's where they keep the drunken knife-wielding priests for when the Anti-Christ comes. Its sort of like the Israeli Area 51, except that nobody cares.
And, uh, actually that's all I've got.

*sigh*
This is depressing. :(

No good can come from this, none.

I actually have a plan to deal with Isreal/Palestine. Temporarily move everyone to cruise ships, then (using the Army Corps of Engineers) flatten the land and buldoze all the cities/houses/streets. Build a big wall all the way around the land, to prevent other countries from interfering in the affairs of the Isrealies and the Palestinians, and build a big wall to split the territory exactly in half. The Isrealies would live on one side, and the Palestinians would live on the other side (both would have approximately the same sea access). Also in my plan, Palestine would become its own autonomous state.

Then there shouldn't be ANY violence between the 2 countries, and the US could start reducing the aid to Isreal, seeing as they should be safe (and the US could really use the money for other things).


They tried splitting the land in half back in '47 but the Arabs didn't like having Jewish nieghbors so they said fuck that and have been tryin to get rid of the Jews ever since.

If the Palestinians lay down their weapons and stop killing, Israel will have no need for a militray presence or for checkpoints, or for anything. They would simply be a country next to another country. But the Pals don't want that, they voted in a terrorist government and they have been using international aid to fund terrorism for years instead of building an economy and jobs for the people there.

Maybe if the US pounded the place with 100 nuclear warheads or so, the problem would just go away. And no one could go live there afterwards.

You don't have to nuke the whole place. Just Jerusalem. Give them enough warning to clear out then vaporize that god-forsaken place.

They tried splitting the land in half back in '47 but the Arabs didn't like having Jewish nieghbors so they said fuck that and have been tryin to get rid of the Jews ever since.

If the Palestinians lay down their weapons and stop killing, Israel will have no need for a militray presence or for checkpoints, or for anything. They would simply be a country next to another country. But the Pals don't want that, they voted in a terrorist government and they have been using international aid to fund terrorism for years instead of building an economy and jobs for the people there.

that has to be the most appalingly ignorant version of Israeli/Palestinan history I have ever read.

a million miles off

You don't have to nuke the whole place. Just Jerusalem. Give them enough warning to clear out then vaporize that god-forsaken place.

Jerusalem is the holiest city in the world to the Jews, lets not joke about vaporizing this G-dly city.

You don't have to nuke the whole place. Just Jerusalem. Give them enough warning to clear out then vaporize that god-forsaken place.
Have to make sure to make it a ground burst, and use a salted weapon to make sure the place is uninhabitable for the next 20,000 years.

Just Jerusalem. Give them enough warning to clear out then vaporize that god-forsaken place.

The irony of the statement is sad but fitting. :(

They tried splitting the land in half back in '47 but the Arabs didn't like having Jewish nieghbors so they said fuck that and have been tryin to get rid of the Jews ever since.

If the Palestinians lay down their weapons and stop killing, Israel will have no need for a militray presence or for checkpoints, or for anything. They would simply be a country next to another country. But the Pals don't want that, they voted in a terrorist government and they have been using international aid to fund terrorism for years instead of building an economy and jobs for the people there.

See, with my plan, it would be like a parent separating 2 fighting children, and making them stand in separate corners. There would be no room for discussion in my plan. If they can't make peace work by themselves, they apparently aren't mature enough to make their own decisions, and must be separated.

The irony of the statement is sad but fitting. :(

If that place was ever holy, it's been washed away in blood long ago. Nobody deserves it. Not jews, not muslims and not christians. Send it back to God. *nod* Like Deep Kimchi says, that'll settle the argument for 20,000 years.

that has to be the most appalingly ignorant version of Israeli/Palestinan history I have ever read.

a million miles off


And I'm sure your version is something along the lines of "The evil Zionisnts came from Europe, and kicked out every Arab in Palestine and stole their land and murdered their children and put them all in camps."

The UN partitioned Palestine into two states, the Arabs said they didn't want the Jews there, so they invaded wiht the intent of annihilation. There is no denying that.

See, with my plan, it would be like a parent separating 2 fighting children, and making them stand in separate corners. There would be no room for discussion in my plan. If they can't make peace work by themselves, they apparently aren't mature enough to make their own decisions, and must be separated.


Why punish the child who has been victimized by terrorism and attempts at annihilation since its inception. I guess you wouldn't make such a good parent.

Why punish the child who has been victimized by terrorism and attempts at annihilation since its inception. I guess you wouldn't make such a good parent.

While the Isrealies might not have started hostilities, they do react to them with their own hostilities. Thus, they are as guilty as the Palestinians of the violence, and should be punished equally.

And I think I'd make a damn fine parent. I'm good with kids, I don't play favorites, and I love sugar cereal as much as any kid.

While the Isrealies might not have started hostilities, they do react to them with their own hostilities. Thus, they are as guilty as the Palestinians of the violence, and should be punished equally.

And I think I'd make a damn fine parent. I'm good with kids, I don't play favorites, and I love sugar cereal as much as any kid.
What do you expect them to do? Just ignore the violence? The lack of a reaction won't convince the other side to quit. It just shows them that their tactics work. I'm not saying Israel hasn't done the Palestinians wrong, but the state of Israel certainly has a right to exist, doesn't it?

While the Isrealies might not have started hostilities, they do react to them with their own hostilities. Thus, they are as guilty as the Palestinians of the violence, and should be punished equally.

And I think I'd make a damn fine parent. I'm good with kids, I don't play favorites, and I love sugar cereal as much as any kid.


lol, I was kidding about your parenting skill.

But as for Israel's retaliation, they aren't left with much of a choice when the HAMAS charter explicitly states:

"Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. Abusing any part of Palestine is abuse directed against part of religion. Nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its religion. Its members have been fed on that. For the sake of hoisting the banner of Allah over their homeland they fight. "Allah will be prominent, but most people do not know."

The only way to deal with these people is to kill their leaders and attempt to negotiate with a moderate who is sincere about peace; and as much as the media claim Mahmoud Abbas is a moderate, the guy got his PHD in holocaust denial for G-d sake; he's no moderate. So until they are serious about peace, Israel will continue to defend its citizens by killing the terrorists and their leaders.

Also, as long as the terrorists continue to hide behind civilian populations, civilian casualties may occur. The ball is in the Arabs court. In this example, had the Palestinians not kidnapped a soldier, or atleast returned right away, this military operation would not be taking place.

but the state of Israel certainly has a right to exist, doesn't it?

I don't think anyone here has ever said otherwise.

Normally the argument is- the right to exist extends to all.

I don't think anyone here has ever said otherwise.

Normally the argument is- the right to exist extends to all.
Well, Israel has agreed to a Palestinian state several times. From here, it looks like the other side isn't compromising.

What do you expect them to do? Just ignore the violence? The lack of a reaction won't convince the other side to quit. It just shows them that their tactics work. I'm not saying Israel hasn't done the Palestinians wrong, but the state of Israel certainly has a right to exist, doesn't it?

No, Isreal shouldn't ignore the violence, but they overreact. They use a missile to take out a terrorist, and inadvertantly take out his entire family, or his neighbors. They have no qualms about racking up collateral damage, and that's that's one of the things that keeps the Palestinians riled up.

On another note, in my plan Isreal will still exist. They'll just have a new neighboring country (Palestine).

Well, Israel has agreed to a Palestinian state several times. From here, it looks like the other side isn't compromising.

Meh. Depends on your point of view.

Normally when fighting for self determination you don't compromise.

(And no, this is not a validation of the old ''the 'rabs want to drive them to the sea'' :rolleyes: - I'm talking about modern day West Bank/Gaza)

The only way to deal with these people is to kill their leaders and attempt to negotiate with a moderate who is sincere about peace;

i pray to god you are on a wind up

are the palestinians allowed the same attitude towords the israelis?

Well, Israel has agreed to a Palestinian state several times. From here, it looks like the other side isn't compromising.

Israel also built settlements on the land agreed to belong to the Palestinian state. And shot palestinians who tried to take back the settlements.

I'm not siding with the Palestinians. They have done everything possible to exacerbate the conflict. But then again, so have the Israelis. They have gone out of their way to force the palestinians to take a submissive role to them rather than to treat them as equals.

No, Isreal shouldn't ignore the violence, but they overreact. They use a missile to take out a terrorist, and inadvertantly take out his entire family, or his neighbors. They have no qualms about racking up collateral damage, and that's that's one of the things that keeps the Palestinians riled up.

On another note, in my plan Isreal will still exist. They'll just have a new neighboring country (Palestine).
You may be right; it could also be that the terrorists in question put Israel in the position of having to cause collateral damage in any reprisal. You can't expect precision; maybe a certain degree, and maybe Israel has crossed the line now and in the past, but it's basically war. The US forces in Iraq have racked up an large list of dead civilians as well, and they fight similar tactics.

Meh. Depends on your point of view.

Normally when fighting for self determination you don't compromise.

(And no, this is not a validation of the old ''the 'rabs want to drive them to the sea'' :rolleyes: - I'm talking about modern day West Bank/Gaza)
It seems to me that Hamas wants a little more than a state encompassing Gaza and the West Bank. Their official position on Israel says that they want it all.

It seems to me that Hamas wants a little more than a state encompassing Gaza and the West Bank. Their official position on Israel says that they want it all.

Hamas has been in power for less than 6 months.

I'm talking about slightly longer than 6 months here for the whole Palestinian right to exist malarky.

Israel also built settlements on the land agreed to belong to the Palestinian state. And shot palestinians who tried to take back the settlements.

I'm not siding with the Palestinians. They have done everything possible to exacerbate the conflict. But then again, so have the Israelis. They have gone out of their way to force the palestinians to take a submissive role to them rather than to treat them as equals.
One of Israel's sins, I agree. They should do more to discourage/remove the settlements. They were established on territory gained in a defensive war, but that itself is not an excuse.

Hamas has been in power for less than 6 months.

I'm talking about slightly longer than 6 months here for the whole Palestinian right to exist malarky.
Sorry, you did say 'modern'.

You may be right; it could also be that the terrorists in question put Israel in the position of having to cause collateral damage in any reprisal. You can't expect precision; maybe a certain degree, and maybe Israel has crossed the line now and in the past, but it's basically war. The US forces in Iraq have racked up an large list of dead civilians as well, and they fight similar tactics.

in that case the Palestinian forces are quite entitled to take prisoners/battlefield detainees....

in that case the Palestinian forces are quite entitled to take prisoners/battlefield detainees....
I dunno, I could be talking out of my ass, but maybe if the Palestinian militants were a legitimate army bound by the Geneva Accords, Israel might not be so hell-bent to retrieve their prisoners.

I dunno, I could be talking out of my ass, but maybe if the Palestinian militants were a legitimate army bound by the Geneva Accords, Israel might not be so hell-bent to retrieve their prisoners.

Well, thats not technically possible as Palestine as a state does not yet exist, therefore it has no official Army.

However, if they didn't attack civilian targets I would find it easier to sympathise with them.

It's started. Wonder how it will turn out. Wonder where Meggido is.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/27/D8IGPTP00.html

Dk you DUPED me! :eek:

in that case the Palestinian forces are quite entitled to take prisoners/battlefield detainees....

The palistinian's don't have a legitimate army. Just a bunch of towel headed hamas/FATAH members running around.

The palistinian's don't have a legitimate army. Just a bunch of towel headed hamas/FATAH members running around.
Ah, the company I keep. Is the adjective 'towel headed' truly necessary?

Ah, the company I keep. Is the adjective 'towel headed' truly necessary?
No. But in the sense that the Palestinians don't have a credible armed force, he is technically correct.

This is it: This is the Israeli show of force that will convince the desperate refugees that they have been wrong to support Hamas all these years and the young palestinians will instead cheer the Israeli troops that bulldoze their houses and harass them at checkpoints. This won't generate another wave of bitter despration leading to another increase in militant recruiting. Soon, all will be duckies and bunnies. :)

If only the IDF would start launching into random areas and carbombing open air business it would be just desserts.

Anyway, if you ask me, this is mostly caused by Israel's willingness in the past to negotiate with kidnappers, sometimes exchanging prisoners at a ratio of about 1000 to 1. Tell me that doesn't encourage anything ...

Anyway, if you ask me, this is mostly caused by Israel's willingness in the past to negotiate with kidnappers, sometimes exchanging prisoners at a ratio of about 1000 to 1. Tell me that doesn't encourage anything ...
What? When exactly?

The last time anything like this happened was 12 years ago.

Ah, the company I keep. Is the adjective 'towel headed' truly necessary?

Have you ever seen a hamas militant WITHOUT one?

They do that so they aren't identified by the israeli predators and blown to peices at 300 AM in the morning :D

What? When exactly?

The last time anything like this happened was 12 years ago.
Israel's policy on it isn't consistent, true. But there's a precedent.

Have you ever seen a hamas militant WITHOUT one?

Yes. Frequently.

No. But in the sense that the Palestinians don't have a credible armed force, he is technically correct.

credible enough to sneak up on an armoured column, take out 2 soldiers and capture another, get back across the border and remain undetected for 2 days.

credible enough that the IDF are going in with everything they have.

i was refering to the fact that Ginnorea refered to this as war.

I think its probably fair to say the militants are a standing army. they are in uniform etc.

credible enough to sneak up on an armoured column, take out 2 soldiers and capture another, get back across the border and remain undetected for 2 days.

credible enough that the IDF are going in with everything they have.

i was refering to the fact that Ginnorea refered to this as war.

I think its probably fair to say the militants are a standing army. they are in uniform etc.

Credible, as in they have the capability to seize and hold territory - that's the classical definition.

They won't be able to hold Gaza, and the overwheming force is to mitigate Israeli casualties.

More to the point, if the Israelis wanted to reoccupy every Palestinian territory, and search every house and building from top to bottom, there is no way that the Palestinians could stop it from happenning.

Yes, Israelis would take casualties. But it would occur, and Palestinians would only die trying to stop it.

Credible, as in they have the capability to seize and hold territory - that's the classical definition.

They won't be able to hold Gaza, and the overwheming force is to mitigate Israeli casualties.

so the israeilis arent a credible army either.

compared to the US?

so the israeilis arent a credible army either.

compared to the US?

Compared to the US, no. Compared to the Palestinians, it's essentially suicide for Palestinians to attempt to hold a position.

credible enough to sneak up on an armoured column, take out 2 soldiers and capture another, get back across the border and remain undetected for 2 days.

credible enough that the IDF are going in with everything they have.

i was refering to the fact that Ginnorea refered to this as war.

I think its probably fair to say the militants are a standing army. they are in uniform etc.

Well, they do all wear red/white towels on their heads. That's the only thing uniform about them.

More to the point, if the Israelis wanted to reoccupy every Palestinian territory, and search every house and building from top to bottom, there is no way that the Palestinians could stop it from happenning.

Yes, Israelis would take casualties. But it would occur, and Palestinians would only die trying to stop it.

And thats the saddest thing.

People would die protecting their homes. :(

Well, they do all wear red/white towels on their heads. That's the only thing uniform about them.
No, I think you'll find a green headband, or scarf or general green fatigues would be their uniform.

I'll put it this way.

RPGs will not penetrate a Merkava tank. So Palestinians attempting to hold a block, and firing from a building at Israeli infantry will end up eating either a 120mm tank round (which will destroy most of the building), or a guided bomb or missile from an Israeli aircraft or helicopter.

One building at a time, the Palestinians will run out of people with rifles and RPGs. After the dust of each explosion clears, the Israelis can move forwards.

The Palestinians have no anti-tank weapons and no anti-aircraft weapons that are effective against Israeli tanks and aircraft.

After you're mostly out of guys, the Israelis sweep through with infantry, and it's done.

I'll put it this way.

RPGs will not penetrate a Merkava tank.

What about the tracks? Are they covered all the way to ground?

I mean an experienced user could get close, especially in urban environs.

What about the tracks? Are they covered all the way to ground?

I mean an experienced user could get close, especially in urban environs.

Merkava carries the heaviest armor of any tank in the world, and is more severely sloped.

The track armor is substantial.

Palestinians have had to resort to putting nearly 1000 pounds of explosive under the road, and hoping the Merkava will drive over it.

so the israeilis arent a credible army either.

compared to the US?

They're democratic, don't consider civilians a legitimate target.

Good hunting IDF, get back your man and kill a bunch of theirs.

Merkava carries the heaviest armor of any tank in the world, and is more severely sloped.

The track armor is substantial.

Palestinians have had to resort to putting nearly 1000 pounds of explosive under the road, and hoping the Merkava will drive over it.

Hmm. Thought as much. The last IDF tanks to get knocked out were quite a while ago, and I think were down to homemade 'mines' as you described all right.

Palestinians would get slaughtered, but standing and fighting like that isd not exactly their forte anyway. They inflict their causualties during an occupation.

And thus the cycle continues.... :(

They're democratic, don't consider civilians a legitimate target.

Good hunting IDF, get back your man and kill a bunch of theirs.

Then the IDF must be very sloppy, as they end up killing civilians all the time.

Is there any strategic reason for whoever captured this guy to keep him alive now the tanks are in?

Is there any strategic reason for whoever captured this guy to keep him alive now the tanks are in?

Not getting occupied again?

Not having hundreds of innocents killed?

Well, they do all wear red/white towels on their heads. That's the only thing uniform about them.

hamas wear green and wite, islams colours. red and white are the socialist groups PFLP etc. fatah wear black and white

and fatigue uniforms and boots.

more ignorant than normal today DM?

Not getting occupied again?

Not having hundreds of innocents killed?

but the IDF have attacked, the innocents are done for anyway. if they shoot him at least the IDF have 'failed' to rescue him. it will be no more or less brutal for hamas one way or the other.

does anyone think the IDF will actually rescue this poor sod with an armour attack?

but the IDF have attacked, the innocents are done for anyway.
Not yet.

if they shoot him at least the IDF have 'failed' to rescue him.
Yeah, and thats just what the civilian population of the Palestinian Territories need.... a pissed off IDF rampaging like a wounded elephant.

it will be no more or less brutal for hamas one way or the other.
They could salvage some domestic honour and PR from this if they released him.


does anyone think the IDF will actually rescue this poor sod with an armour attack?

It puts pressure on others to work faster at getting him released. And I wouldn't be surprised if they do find him... alive is another matter.

They're democratic, don't consider civilians a legitimate target.

Good hunting IDF, get back your man and kill a bunch of theirs.

Why stop at a bunch? Have them go at all, man woman and child.

:mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5:

Why stop at a bunch? Have them go at all, man woman and child.

:mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5:


It seems like thats the only way you will ever see peace in that area .

Then the IDF must be very sloppy, as they end up killing civilians all the time.

Is there any strategic reason for whoever captured this guy to keep him alive now the tanks are in?

The problem is that hamas surrounders itself with civilians.

If they do kill him I'm pretty sure Israel will put craters in the roads in Gaza, err, imagine Sherman going to the sea...except jewish...:p

If he's found dead, I hope they do.


hamas wear green and wite, islams colours. red and white are the socialist groups PFLP etc. fatah wear black and white

and fatigue uniforms and boots.

more ignorant than normal today DM?

I'm Jewish, not Palistinian.

All those colors stand out against a blue sky. Perfect for IDF soldiers :D


Why stop at a bunch? Have them go at all, man woman and child.

:mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5:

If the IDF really wanted to give the Pali's a taste of their own medicine, they'd just drop a 500lb bomb every 500 yards or so in Pali areas.

But they don't.

If peices of alluminum and steel could dream, mine would dream about riding in an M113 behind held by a 19 year old private named Benjamin taking aim at a GREEN AND WHITE toweled target :p

If peices of alluminum and steel could dream, mine would dream about riding in an M113 behind held by a 19 year old private named Benjamin taking aim at a GREEN AND WHITE toweled target :p

You are sickening.

You are sickening.

:D

Romans 8:31 "If God be for us, who can be against us"

It's all Operation Yellow Elephant and 101st Fighting Keyboarder masturbation talk anyways. For all they rub their genitals about murdering Muslims, they don't have the balls to do it themselves. Hell, there's plenty of Muslims living in the United States and they wouldn't have the nerve to start the butchering. If Islam is such an evil threat, why don't they protect their country and start killing them?

:D

Romans 8:31 "If God be for us, who can be against us"

Anyone in their right mind.

Next question?

It's all Operation Yellow Elephant and 101st Fighting Keyboarder masturbation talk anyways. For all they rub their genitals about murdering Muslims, they don't have the balls to do it themselves. Hell, there's plenty of Muslims living in the United States and they wouldn't have the nerve to start the butchering. If Islam is such an evil threat, why don't they protect their country and start killing them?

The gas station attendant down the road is an EVIL THREAT?

OH NOES111!!!!!!!1111!!!!

:rolleyes:

It's all Operation Yellow Elephant and 101st Fighting Keyboarder masturbation talk anyways. For all they rub their genitals about murdering Muslims, they don't have the balls to do it themselves. Hell, there's plenty of Muslims living in the United States and they wouldn't have the nerve to start the butchering. If Islam is such an evil threat, why don't they protect their country and start killing them?


Why what did they do ?

Israel's deputy prime minister, Shimon Peres, recognized a split among Palestinians and blamed exiled Hamas political leader Khaled Meshaal for Shalit's kidnapping. Peres said Meshaal "wants to destroy any chance for peace."

"All this was done against, maybe, the better judgment of the Palestinian leaders on the ground," Peres told CNN. "The orders came from Syria. They came from a gentleman who wants to destroy any chance for peace."

It looks like he got his wish :rolleyes:

Why what did they do ?

Apparenty we are supposed to hate all muslims and kill them.


:rolleyes:

:D

Romans 8:31 "If God be for us, who can be against us"


Didn't you say you were Jewish???


And for everyone else...isn't it obvious that if the Palestinians had just released Gilad right away there would be no ground invasion taking place right now?

The problem is that hamas surrounders itself with civilians.

As did the IDF, up until very recently. And I understand they may still be using the "Neighbor_Procedure" (http://www.btselem.org/english/Human_Shields/Neighbor_Procedure.asp) in violation of several court orders.

As did the IDF, up until very recently. And I understand they may still be using the "Neighbor_Procedure" (http://www.btselem.org/english/Human_Shields/Neighbor_Procedure.asp) in violation of several court orders.

The Neighbor Procedure is nothing at all similiar to the way Hamas and terror groups in Palestine use civilians. For one, the NP is on request. The Palestinian requested to do it may refuse.

In contrast, terror groups often break into the houses of people, hold them at gunpoint, and use them as locations to launch qassam rockets. Or force groups of people, again at gunpoint, to stand around them while they plant explosives or launch missles.

The Neighbor Procedure is nothing at all similiar to the way Hamas and terror groups in Palestine use civilians. For one, the NP is on request. The Palestinian requested to do it may refuse.

In contrast, terror groups often break into the houses of people, hold them at gunpoint, and use them as locations to launch qassam rockets. Or force groups of people, again at gunpoint, to stand around them while they plant explosives or launch missles.


The High Court disagreed when the IDF made the same claims:
According to Barak's written decision, it is impossible to achieve "genuine" consent under military occupation. "It is hard to judge when [a Palestinian’s] consent was given freely and when it was the fruit of overt or covert pressure," Barak wrote. "A basic principle of the rules of belligerent occupation in international law is the prohibition on using protected residents as part of the army's military effort. The civilian population must not be exploited for the army's military needs."
http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2465

The High Court disagreed when the IDF made the same claims:

http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2465

No, the high court did not disagree that it was not "using human shields" or not similiar to Hamas. The only part that was disagreed upon was the possibility to determine if consent was genuine - not if it actually was. The very possibility that it wasn't genuine is why it was prohibited. Israeli courts are known around the world for being activist in this fashion, something courts in other countries would never do.

You've slipped into the fallacy of the slippery slope. By reading a news excerpt that says it is impossible to know if consent was given, you have now claimed that the court decided that consent wasn't given. You've also used it as a blanket argument to claim that the court "disagreed" with other statements that occur nowhere in the ruling - such as the fact that the NP isn't similiar in any way to the terrorist use of human shields.

Of course. How dare they attack military personnel?!? They're supposed to bomb malls and pool halls! The bastards switched tactics! :mad:


Its there treacherous nature reasserting itself once more.


If the Palestinians lay down their weapons and stop killing, Israel will have no need for a militray presence or for checkpoints, or for anything. They would simply be a country next to another country. But the Pals don't want that, they voted in a terrorist government and they have been using international aid to fund terrorism for years instead of building an economy and jobs for the people there.:

Were that the reason why build settlements? Do Palestinians respond well to the site of Israelis in semi-dettached housing?


Jerusalem is the holiest city in the world to the Jews, lets not joke about vaporizing this G-dly city.

How about "vanishing"? Remember it would offend muslims equally so you cant claim discrimination....


The palistinian's don't have a legitimate army. Just a bunch of towel headed hamas/FATAH members running around..

Yep. War boner.


I think its probably fair to say the militants are a standing army. they are in uniform etc...

"militia" is more apt, as Army may actually give the impression they have a snowballs chance in hell to the uninformed.

If peices of alluminum and steel could dream, mine would dream about riding in an M113 behind held by a 19 year old private named Benjamin taking aim at a GREEN AND WHITE toweled target ..

War boner part deux.


The Neighbor Procedure is nothing at all similiar to the way Hamas and terror groups in Palestine use civilians. For one, the NP is on request. The Palestinian requested to do it may refuse...

O no.....Just when we were having a decent uncivil conversation.

Were that the reason why build settlements? Do Palestinians respond well to the site of Israelis in semi-dettached housing?

Dude, settlements aren't an issue. Israel is willing to disband them all excluding major ones near the fence. They are built on EMPTY land, not land stolen from anyone. That land is in Israels control until the Pals decide to wise up and push for a state instad of killing Israelis.



How about "vanishing"? Remember it would offend muslims equally so you cant claim discrimination....

It wouldn't offend Muslims equally, because Jerusalem isn't that holy to the Muslims. Jerusalem is not mentioned in the Koran once. NOT ONCE. It's mentioned in the Torah and Tanach countless times. In fact, the only way Muslims make a link to Jerusalem is by referring to Mohammeds Night Journey in which he traveled through heaven and hell etc. The text says he went from the Sacred Mosque (in Mecca) to the furthest Mosque (Al Aqsa). But no one knowns what the furthest Mosque refers to. The Umayadd Caliphate however decided to fabricate a connection to Jerusalem (the Umayadds were based out of Damascus) by constructing the Al Aqsa Mosque on the Temple Mount and naming it Al Aqsa...years after the tractace specifying Al Aqsa was written.

Dude, settlements aren't an issue. Israel is willing to disband them all excluding major ones near the fence. They are built on EMPTY land, not land stolen from anyone. That land is in Israels control until the Pals decide to wise up and push for a state instad of killing Israelis.

Not just empty land, but land privately owned by Israeli citizens, both Arab and Jew. The people who call for the full removal of settlements implictly advocate stealing private land that is legally owned and giving it to a foreign state.

Its something that would be unthinkable were it to occur elsewhere. Yet, when it comes to Israel, the anti-Israeli crowd has no problem adovocating that Jews give up privately owned land to a foreign state.

It's all Operation Yellow Elephant and 101st Fighting Keyboarder masturbation talk anyways. For all they rub their genitals about murdering Muslims, they don't have the balls to do it themselves. Hell, there's plenty of Muslims living in the United States and they wouldn't have the nerve to start the butchering. If Islam is such an evil threat, why don't they protect their country and start killing them?

I've shot Iraqis before.

hamas wear green and wite, islams colours. red and white are the socialist groups PFLP etc. fatah wear black and white

and fatigue uniforms and boots.

more ignorant than normal today DM?

Don't forget that when they go to be suicide bombers, they are wearing civilian clothes, and are not in uniform. Well, except for the explosives...

Dude, settlements aren't an issue. Israel is willing to disband them all excluding major ones near the fence. They are built on EMPTY land, not land stolen from anyone. That land is in Israels control until the Pals decide to wise up and push for a state instad of killing Israelis.


The settlements are most certainly an issue. A very large and central one.


It wouldn't offend Muslims equally, because Jerusalem isn't that holy to the Muslims. Jerusalem is not mentioned in the Koran once. NOT ONCE. It's mentioned in the Torah and Tanach countless times. In fact, the only way Muslims make a link to Jerusalem is by referring to Mohammeds Night Journey in which he traveled through heaven and hell etc. The text says he went from the Sacred Mosque (in Mecca) to the furthest Mosque (Al Aqsa). But no one knowns what the furthest Mosque refers to. The Umayadd Caliphate however decided to fabricate a connection to Jerusalem (the Umayadds were based out of Damascus) by constructing the Al Aqsa Mosque on the Temple Mount and naming it Al Aqsa...years after the tractace specifying Al Aqsa was written.

Then you just double vaporise it for good measure.

Not just empty land, but land privately owned by Israeli citizens, both Arab and Jew. The people who call for the full removal of settlements implictly advocate stealing private land that is legally owned and giving it to a foreign state.

No, its land illegally held. They have no rights to it whatsoever. Not a one.


I've shot Iraqis before.

Wow. You're great.

Don't forget that when they go to be suicide bombers, they are wearing civilian clothes, and are not in uniform. Well, except for the explosives...

what do 'miltary contractors' in Iraq wear?

the SAS in Northern Ireland?

you still on that high horse?




All those colors stand out against a blue sky. Perfect for IDF soldiers :D


there are people reading this who remember the same attitude towords yellow stars.

grow up.

what do 'miltary contractors' in Iraq wear?

the SAS in Northern Ireland?

you still on that high horse?



there are people reading this who remember the same attitude towords yellow stars.

grow up.

I'm just quoting the Geneva Conventions... if you don't like them, repeal them.

I'm just quoting the Geneva Conventions... if you don't like them, repeal them.

its acceptible for US and British forces to hide in civilian clothing but that pleasure is not extended to those you dont like? :rolleyes:

its acceptible for US and British forces to hide in civilian clothing but that pleasure is not extended to those you dont like? :rolleyes:

Yes, as long as they are carrying identification that marks them as working on behalf of a High Contracting Party.

You really should read the Geneva Conventions before engaging the kneejerk.

Yes, as long as they are carrying identification that marks them as working on behalf of a High Contracting Party.

You really should read the Geneva Conventions before engaging the kneejerk.

so thats the SAS in Ireland out of the convention. and do the mercs in Iraq carry this ID?

its not kneejerk, your side does it too

so thats the SAS in Ireland out of the convention. and do the mercs in Iraq carry this ID?

its not kneejerk, your side does it too

The SAS was still within the convention. As are the private security contractors in Iraq.

The SAS was still within the convention. As are the private security contractors in Iraq.

despite the fact they wear civilian clothes and no military insignia?

are you sure they are covered?

despite the fact they wear civilian clothes and no military insignia?

are you sure they are covered?

Yes. If they have their dog tags and military ID cards, and are on orders from a military that is a High Contracting Party, they certainly are.

Yes. If they have their dog tags and military ID cards, and are on orders from a military that is a High Contracting Party, they certainly are.

chrisy on a fucking bicyle.

the SAS didnt. thats the point.

do mercenaries have these id's in Iraq?

chrisy on a fucking bicyle.

the SAS didnt. thats the point.

do mercenaries have these id's in Iraq?

The dog tags are worn under your shirt. The ID stays in your pocket. Got it?

Yes they do.

The dog tags are worn under your shirt. The ID stays in your pocket. Got it?

Yes they do.

so the SAS men regularly arrested by the Irish police on the wrong side of the border had MAGIC pockets. so magic that the embassy had to come and prove they were SAS in fact.

the point is allies of yours ditch their uniforms (and ID) when it suits them, so the higher moral ground is not really anyones here.

so the SAS men regularly arrested by the Irish police on the wrong side of the border had MAGIC pockets. so magic that the embassy had to come and prove they were SAS in fact.

the point is allies of yours ditch their uniforms (and ID) when it suits them, so the higher moral ground is not really anyones here.

You're generalizing the behavior of all US forces based on what SAS troopers may have done?

You're generalizing the behavior of all US forces based on what SAS troopers may have done?

here we go.

where did i mention stading US forces?

Hamas not wearing uniforms was help up as an example of how eeeevvvilllll they are.

Im merely pointing out the US employ mecenaries in Iraq who wear civies and the SAS were constantly (see the Gibralter killings, incursions into the Irish republic) wearing clothes other than their uniforms. are US special forces not also allowed a looser definition of uniforms?

so pot.kettle.black.

here we go.

where did i mention stading US forces?

Hamas not wearing uniforms was help up as an example of how eeeevvvilllll they are.

Im merely pointing out the US employ mecenaries in Iraq who wear civies and the SAS were constantly (see the Gibralter killings, incursions into the Irish republic) wearing clothes other than their uniforms. are US special forces not also allowed a looser definition of uniforms?

so pot.kettle.black.

US forces, including the private security contractors, have military identification.

Even when dressed in less than military attire, the SF people have their dog tags and identification.

Try again. You can't generalize what the US forces do from what the SAS might have or might not have done.

Hamas should wear uniforms, or have an emblem, or have a military identification card that identifies them as members of a High Contracting Party (Hamas is not).