NationStates Jolt Archive

i m reallly conflicted on this one.

on 1 hand i dont trust the "court system" they have.

on the other hand....i sometimes think that the punishment should fit the crime,and in the case of rape..stoning seems pretty reasonable....

i know most disagree with me...but it is one of the few things i agree with the fundies on...you rape someone..figure your going to get bashed in the head with a big rock....but ...what if your innocent?

maybe the 20th century has something to offer?

Somalia's Islamists to stone rapists to death By Mohamed Ali Bile
Mon Jun 26, 7:29 PM ET



MOGADISHU (Reuters) - Somalia's newly powerful Islamists said on Monday they will stone to death five rapists, in what some fear is the latest sign of a plan to install a hardline Islamic authority like Afghanistan's Taliban.

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The punishments, like others carried out by the Islamists in their sharia courts in the capital Mogadishu and elsewhere, follow the naming of Sheikh Hassan Dahir Aweys -- on a U.N. list of al Qaeda associates -- to a top post over the weekend.

Aweys, a former army colonel who in the 1990s led militant Islamists in failed campaigns in Somalia but has denied any al Qaeda links, was named head of the Council of Islamic Courts.

The United States would have no contact with Aweys, but has made no decision about relations with the group as a whole, said State Department spokesman Sean McCormack,

"Of course we are not going to work with somebody like that and of course we would be troubled if this is an indicator of the direction that this group would go in," McCormack said. "But again let's wait, let's see what the collective leadership of this group does."

The council is a parliament for the Islamists, whose well-trained militias seized Mogadishu from U.S.-backed warlords on June 5 after months of fighting that killed at least 350.

The rapists were to be stoned to death in Jowhar, which the Islamists took in the last phase of a campaign that saw them seize a strategic swathe of Somalia from the coastal capital northwest nearly to the Ethiopian border.

"Five men who raped four women on June 22 will be stoned to death today (Monday) in accordance with the Islamic sharia. They have pleaded guilty to the crime and also have been identified by the victims," Siyad Mohamed, a militia leader linked to Islamic courts, told Reuters by phone from Jowhar.

Mohamed later said the execution had been delayed as the courts looked to arrest a sixth suspect. He said it was not clear when the sentences would be carried out.

The Islamist victory dealt an embarrassing public setback to Washington's counter-terrorism campaign, as its support for the much-despised warlords gave the Islamists popular backing.

'THE UPPER HAND'

The Islamists at first tried to present a moderate face to the world, saying they only wanted to end anarchy and restore peace lost since dictator Mohamed Siad Barre was ousted in 1991.

One Western diplomat who follows Somalia said Aweys' rise would likely close channels for dialogue with the West.

"I think it demonstrates how secure they feel in their own right. They don't need international recognition, and they can do this because they have the upper hand," the diplomat said.

The shooting of a Swedish journalist in Mogadishu Friday also hurt the Islamists' claim to be pacifying the city.

Asked about the appointment of Aweys, Somalia's interim government was circumspect: "It is the internal business of the courts," government spokesman Abdirahman Dinari said.

Somalia's weak interim government and the Islamists, in talks mediated by Sudan in Khartoum, last week agreed to recognize each other and meet again on July 15. Both sides are deeply suspicious of the other's intentions.

Islamic Courts Union Chairman Sheikh Sharif Ahmed said in an interview with Al Jazeera television on Monday that fellow African nations should block any deployment of foreign forces in his country.

Somalia's parliament approved a plan for deployment of foreign peacekeepers earlier this month. The government's call for international peacekeepers has infuriated the Islamists.

Ahmed also said his group was not ready to heed government calls to abandon weapons. "(The call) to drop weapons is premature. Let negotiations start first. I think any other talk is unacceptable and unfruitful," he said.

(Additional reporting by Guled Mohamed, Bryson Hull in Nairobi)

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The death penalty is really a pretty barbaric thing. The United States, Somalia, and other countries need to learn how to be civilized and quit committing retributive murder.

Well, at least now only Somalia executes juveniles, since the US stopped a year or two ago.

somalia is an exception in some regards..it was so out of hand,maybe they need to use draconian methods to restore order.

it aint my country,and i would not support stonings here..lol...but then again..consider the country,it may well be the only way to settle them the fuck down.

well .... if really guilty - death keeps from repeat offenders :cool:

Yeah, it all seems reasonable until you realize that under Sharia law, the raped woman gets killed too, for now being unclean, violated and desecrated.

I don't agree with any form of capital punishment. Not only because every court system is falible and innocents might be killed, but also because I that punishment is a social necessity with the aim to correct the victims behaviour, not revenge. Revenge has no room in jurisdiction, ever.

The death penalty is really a pretty barbaric thing. The United States, Somalia, and other countries need to learn how to be civilized and quit committing retributive murder.

Well, at least now only Somalia executes juveniles, since the US stopped a year or two ago.

i am an american,and i dont ever recall juviniles ever being killed..aside from a lynching..but that was not court ordered.

somalia..a whole nother ball game...

and let me please reiterate...i know nothing of the culture,so i am just guessing here.

my girlfriend was killed there a few years back,so forgive my seeming apathy

Capital punishment would be the least of my complaints if I had to live under Sharia law.. condolences to Somalia, although I suspect we've got plenty of missiles set aside for certain contingencies.. ;)

I don't agree with any form of capital punishment. Not only because every court system is falible and innocents might be killed, but also because I that punishment is a social necessity with the aim to correct the victims behaviour, not revenge. Revenge has no room in jurisdiction, ever.

well this may be a first..your right and i fear i am wrong!

i think you may be correct

i am an american,and i dont ever recall juviniles ever being killed..aside from a lynching..but that was not court ordered.


They never were, at least in recent history. They could be sentenced to death for certain crimes if they were under 18, but never executed as minors. The appeals process takes too long anyhow.

I don't agree with any form of capital punishment. Not only because every court system is falible and innocents might be killed, but also because I that punishment is a social necessity with the aim to correct the victims behaviour, not revenge. Revenge has no room in jurisdiction, ever.
I agree with you on that, but I've lived in Saudi Arabia and there the punishments they have are pretty harsh too but in a sense it really does help; the amount of crimes there seems much lower because no one wants to have any of those punishments (and isn't lower crime rates the idea behind punishments?) I felt pretty safe living there, a lot safer than in many western countries I've been in

I agree with you on that, but I've lived in Saudi Arabia and there the punishments they have are pretty harsh too but in a sense it really does help; the amount of crimes there seems much lower because no one wants to have any of those punishments (and isn't lower crime rates the idea behind punishments?) I felt pretty safe living there, a lot safer than in many western countries I've been in

Its true that police states have the potential for safety. Singapore is like that as well. The question is if the results are worth the human rights violations and quality of life that results.

I agree with you on that, but I've lived in Saudi Arabia and there the punishments they have are pretty harsh too but in a sense it really does help; the amount of crimes there seems much lower because no one wants to have any of those punishments (and isn't lower crime rates the idea behind punishments?) I felt pretty safe living there, a lot safer than in many western countries I've been in

I somehow find it hard to believe that the feeling of safety and the low crime rates relate directly to the severity of the punishments. If that were the case, wouldn't that also mean that crime rates in the USA, at least in those states with capital punishment, must be very much lower than crime rates in, say, Sweden or even Ireland, where the police don't even carry firearms?

My guess is that the crime rates correspond much more to social pressure and the general unacceptability of any sort of misbehaviour in all circles of society. Social pressure is a lot more effective than legal pressure.