NationStates Jolt Archive

And music = freedom of expression.

Exactly, just look at Marilyn Manson.:rolleyes:

Anyway, a United States citizen burning the flag from their own country is like a homsexual person burning a homosexual pride flag. What is the point in that? It's disrespectful and it shouldn't happen. People are always so quick to pull the 1st amendment card and say it's freedom of speech but they are always the people who want the world to be more "politically correct" and wanting us to "show sensitivity". How about showing sensitivity and a little respect by not burning the flag of the country you live in regardless of what you think of the President? I don't necessarily agree with everything President Bush is doing but that doesn't mean I disrespect the country I live in and the freedoms that I have by burning it's flag.

Only certain organizations are authorized to properly dispose of the flag by burning.

There is a massive difference in destroying a flag "..in a dignified way, preferably by burning." and burning, spitting upon and trampling it.


Incorrect.

ANYONE may dispose of a flag through burning. Tell me where in the Flag Code (which is not law, btw) it says a private individual may not dispose of a flag in this manner? Tell me where it states that ONLY the American Legion, the US Government, or the Boy Scouts may dispose of the flag.

I'll wait.

Exactly, just look at Marilyn Manson.:rolleyes:

Anyway, a United States citizen burning the flag from their own country is like a homsexual person burning a homosexual pride flag. What is the point in that? It's disrespectful and it shouldn't happen. People are always so quick to pull the 1st amendment card and say it's freedom of speech but they are always the people who want the world to be more "politically correct" and wanting us to "show sensitivity". How about showing sensitivity and a little respect by not burning the flag of the country you live in regardless of what you think of the President? I don't necessarily agree with everything President Bush is doing but that doesn't mean I disrespect the country I live in and the freedoms that I have by burning it's flag.
Yeah, take a look at Marilyn Manson if you want.

It's silly how people hold a flag or a pledge so sacred. Personally, I spit on the idea of mandatory pledges of allegiance or singing of the anthem to be allowed into schools or such things. What right do they have to withhold me anything based on dangerous, fanatic nationalism? That's right, fanatic. Only in fascist countries is it mandatory to show your nationalism. As much as I like my country, I wouldn't hesitate to jump the border if such ideals became real here. I love my country because I am not forced to do anything.

With that in mind, I find it ridiculous to ban flag burning. If you hold a simple piece of cloth in higher regard than a sentient (eccentric) being, especially when the symbolism you claim that flag has symbolically protects that individual's right to protest as fiercely as he can with causing harm, you're into something way over your head. Just don't get your panties in a bunch over it, people will always protest and will sacrifice one resource or another for it. If I where to stomp on McDonalds hamburgers and spoil Coca Cola in the open as a sign of anti-Americanism there's nothing you can do about it either, or will the interests of American Patriotism and McDonalds and Coca Cola also be protected by constitutional amendments?

Just think about it. Your neighbour could be hating his country and will make no attempt to hide his disrespect for it. And you'd better darn well let him, it's his choice how to use/waste his right to free speech.

Incorrect.

ANYONE may dispose of a flag through burning. Tell me where in the Flag Code (which is not law, btw) it says a private individual may not dispose of a flag in this manner? Tell me where it states that ONLY the American Legion, the US Government, or the Boy Scouts may dispose of the flag.

I'll wait.

If the Flag Code were actual law, a lot of businesses that put up a flag and leave it there until it rots away would be in trouble.

Incorrect.

ANYONE may dispose of a flag through burning. Tell me where in the Flag Code (which is not law, btw) it says a private individual may not dispose of a flag in this manner? Tell me where it states that ONLY the American Legion, the US Government, or the Boy Scouts may dispose of the flag.

I'll wait.

I can answer the Boy Scouts as being an Eagle Scout.

We were not licensed to dispose of flags, we did it as a service to the community. We received instructions and preformed the ceremony for it.

Anybody can legally burn a flag as long as they follow the proper procedure for doing it.

I've burned about 20 flags. Wait I didn't say that out load did I? ;)

Incorrect.

ANYONE may dispose of a flag through burning. Tell me where in the Flag Code (which is not law, btw) it says a private individual may not dispose of a flag in this manner? Tell me where it states that ONLY the American Legion, the US Government, or the Boy Scouts may dispose of the flag.

I'll wait.
In my copy of the US Flag code, which is printed pamphlet from the VFW, it says that "only members of the Uniformed Services, VFW, American Legion, Boy Scouts of America, Elks Lodge, or other authorized organization may burn the Flag of the United States to dispose of it."

I can answer the Boy Scouts as being an Eagle Scout.

We were not licensed to dispose of flags, we did it as a service to the community. We received instructions and preformed the ceremony for it.

Anybody can legally burn a flag as long as they follow the proper procedure for doing it.

I've burned about 20 flags. Wait I didn't say that out load did I? ;)

Thanks. My point exactly.

If the Flag Code were actual law, a lot of businesses that put up a flag and leave it there until it rots away would be in trouble.

:D

About 1/2 of the local car lots would be trouble for all the times I've seen ripped flags!

Thanks. My point exactly.
read my post...

read my post...
The VFW makes laws?

The VFW makes laws?
she asked me where it said that, and i told her :p

and as said before the Flag code is not law.

In my copy of the US Flag code, which is printed pamphlet from the VFW, it says that "only members of the Uniformed Services, VFW, American Legion, Boy Scouts of America, Elks Lodge, or other authorized organization may burn the Flag of the United States to dispose of it."

Actually that might be your State laws and or the beliefs of the VFW.

http://www.bcpl.net/~etowner/flagcode.html

(k) The Flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.

True that it may have beeen bias on the part of the person who made the VFW pamphlets.... ...but Kat's link also "suggests" it...

Section 8k of the Flag Code (see below) states, "The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning." We recommend that you contact your local VFW Chapter and ask them for help properly disposing of your flag. And be sure to consider providing a small donation to them for their assistance. Or you can contact your local Elks Lodge (who created the idea of Flag Day, established officially by President Truman, himself a member of the Elks), the American Legion, or the Knights of Columbus. Some Boy Scout and Girl Scout troups also can provide this service.

In my copy of the US Flag code, which is printed pamphlet from the VFW, it says that "only members of the Uniformed Services, VFW, American Legion, Boy Scouts of America, Elks Lodge, or other authorized organization may burn the Flag of the United States to dispose of it."

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode04/usc_sec_04_00000008----000-.html

Then that is an addition that the VFW made. It is NOT in the orginal code.

True that it may have beeen bias on the part of the person who made the VFW pamphlets.... ...but Kat's link also "suggests" it...
I can also provide this service. No donation necessary.

True that it may have beeen bias on the part of the person who made the VFW pamphlets.... ...but Kat's link also "suggests" it...

"We recommend" certainly does not mean only these people can do it. Methinks you need to read more critically?

http://i500.nopdesign.com/skins/wallpaper/Patriotic_Ass.jpg
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/4th-Of-July-Celebration.GIF
http://cosleia.smugmug.com/photos/29892243-S.jpg
http://www.dumbauctions.com/wp-content/plugins/ebayimages/5626347969.JPG
http://www.marshallgreyhounds.com/images/YappyHours/2002-06-13%20yappy%20hour%20-%20flag%20wag/Dingo%20winking.JPG
http://static.flickr.com/27/43180609_a6379057e2_m.jpg
http://www.gocollect.com/images/CherishedTeddies/200/112396.jpghttp://www.mygiftsite.com/images/31774.jpg
http://www.hopingskills.com/images/giftbaskets/FlagPencils.jpg

Oooh, those must be more illegal than cocaine:
http://www.bakingshop.com/bc/img/C-125.jpg

This is how the Americans expressed their grief for the people who got killed on 9/11.
You can sit on it, wear it, sharpen it, commit some serious crimes against good-taste with it, put it on an ass's ass, write on it, tattoo it on an elephant, put it on a dog, ... But you can't burn it?

You guys are so weird.

This is how the Americans expressed their grief for the people who got killed on 9/11.
You can sit on it, wear it, sharpen it, commit some serious crimes against good-taste with it, put it on an ass's ass, write on it, tattoo it on an elephant, put it on a dog, ... But you can't burn it?

You guys are so weird.
For clarification: there ARE a number of Americans on this thread ridiculing the idea of this amendment, myself included.

For clarification: there ARE a number of Americans on this thread ridiculing the idea of this amendment, myself included.

So when was the last time a protest burn happened in this country anyway?

As DK posted, businesses abuse the flag far more then joe blow citizen.....

I would support the amendment if it outlaws politicians wrapping themselves in the flag! ;)

So when was the last time a protest burn happened in this country anyway?

As DK posted, businesses abuse the flag far more then joe blow citizen.....


When I was about eleven, my mom and I had to write to my school DEMANDING that they remove and replace their flag because it was in tatters, with the requisite carbon copy to the local congressman.

;) Our school was gifted with a brand new flag from said congressman.

Said amendment was deated in the Senate, 66 to 34, one vote short of what was needed to send it to the states.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/06/27/MNGL4JLDTN3.DTL

Let's hear it for freedom of speech, even speech you don't like.

Said amendment was deated in the Senate, 66 to 34, one vote short of what was needed to send it to the states.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/06/27/MNGL4JLDTN3.DTL

Let's hear it for freedom of speech, even speech you don't like.


Amen. ;)

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11247349&postcount=365

Well, what do you know. The senate did not get its 2/3rds majority.

I remember you said it, LG.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11247349&postcount=365

Well, what do you know. The senate did not get its 2/3rds majority.

I remember you said it, LG.
If Barry Goldwater is proven wrong any more on this forum, I think he might self-combust.

It got killed by one vote ...that was close.. I cant understand how willing some Americans are to give away their rights .

Whats more important , the Bill of rights and the constitution or the Flag ?

It got killed by one vote ...that was close.. I cant understand how willing some Americans are to give away their rights .

Whats more important , the Bill of rights and the constitution or the Flag ?
Playing up their patriotism in an election cycle is more important than actual rights.

After the Senate Judiciary Committee approved a Constitutional amendment to criminalize any "physical desecration" of the American flag, the ACLU urged the Senate to reject it when it comes to a floor vote this week. If adopted, it would be the first time the Constitution has been used to restrict First Amendment freedoms.

"The right to voice a dissenting viewpoint - no matter how unpopular - is a bedrock principle of America," said Caroline Fredrickson, Director of the ACLU Washington Legislative Office. "The First Amendment is most important when it protects speech that is controversial and repugnant."

If you are an American now is the time to contact your Congressman or Senator.

http://www.aclu.org/
You're a fuckin nerd dude.

After the Senate Judiciary Committee approved a Constitutional amendment to criminalize any "physical desecration" of the American flag, the ACLU urged the Senate to reject it when it comes to a floor vote this week. If adopted, it would be the first time the Constitution has been used to restrict First Amendment freedoms.

"The right to voice a dissenting viewpoint - no matter how unpopular - is a bedrock principle of America," said Caroline Fredrickson, Director of the ACLU Washington Legislative Office. "The First Amendment is most important when it protects speech that is controversial and repugnant."

If you are an American now is the time to contact your Congressman or Senator.

http://www.aclu.org/


This isn't considered spam?

Was your statement a normative absolutist, and unqualified statement or not?
I made a statement about flagburners, you respond with the idiotic statement that I called veterans douchbags.

Seems like a pretty idiotic stretch.

This isn't considered spam?
What are you talking about?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11247349&postcount=365

Well, what do you know. The senate did not get its 2/3rds majority.

I remember you said it, LG.
Well, technically what LG said was that it wouldn't get a majority, which it did. It just didn't get its 2/3rds to send it through. (Which is good)

Playing up their patriotism in an election cycle is more important than actual rights.
"The first responsibility of a politican is to get reelected."

"The first responsibility of a politican is to get reelected."
"The second responsibility of a politician is to figure out how to supplement a government salary."

"For it has been said so truthfully that it is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech.

It is the soldier, not the agitator, who has given us the freedom to protest.

It is the soldier who salutes the flag, serves beneath the flag, whose coffin is draped by the flag, who gives that protester the freedom to abuse and burn that flag."

The spirit of America is not represented by that vile protester.

Glad I could help. Now, stop trying to tarnish my efforts by denying people the right to act on the rights I worked so hard to protect.

Given your limited view on the word 'speech' must a 'figure of speech' be spokent? Is it called a figure of text when written? A figure of song when sung? A figure of signing when in sign language? Or perhaps speech refers to expression not spoken words.

Someone on the first few pages said 70% of American citizens supported the ban. I realize its sort of irrelevant now, but just for the sake of correct information:
A 2005 Gallup poll reported that 55 percent of Americans favored a constitutional amendment that would make it illegal to burn the American flag, a decrease from the 63 percent who favored such an amendment in 1999.

Thank God for the Senators who voted against this Ammendment.

Anyway, a United States citizen burning the flag from their own country is like a homsexual person burning a homosexual pride flag. What is the point in that? It's disrespectful and it shouldn't happen.

False analogy. The person burning the US flag is burning a symbol of something they do not wish to be associated with for some reason; this is completely different from someone burning a flag of something they wish to be upheld and do believe in.

A better analogy would be that burning the flag is similar to feminists burning their bras; in both cases, something closely associated with the group [Americans, women] is destroyed to make a point that they don't like what it represents.

Also, maybe I slept through the part where America was founded on the idea that everyone had to respect their own nation. Bearing in mind that if America was founded on those values it would still be a British colony, since revolutions are kinda disrespectful.

People are always so quick to pull the 1st amendment card and say it's freedom of speech but they are always the people who want the world to be more "politically correct" and wanting us to "show sensitivity".

Try me on that. I most certainly do not want the world to be more politically correct, but I recognise that if you go around undermining the founding principles of your nation you are taking a bigger piss on the flag than some college kid with a lighter ever could.

How about showing sensitivity and a little respect by not burning the flag of the country you live in regardless of what you think of the President?

How about you show sensitivity and a little respect by not supporting an attempt to damage the freedoms that flag represents?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11247349&postcount=365

Well, what do you know. The senate did not get its 2/3rds majority.

I remember you said it, LG.

True, but it was a lot closer than I expected. Disturbingly so.

Well, technically what LG said was that it wouldn't get a majority, which it did. It just didn't get its 2/3rds to send it through. (Which is good)

True. I really didn't expect it to be that close.

I originally liked the amendment, but my school teachers scared me because they reminded me of the separation of church and state and because this is exactly what hitler did in germany. While my parents like the republicans, and I like them when I first hear their proposals, after being educated in school I now realize just how evil the republicans really are. I'm glad the Founders established the ACLU to make sure that the constitution isn't repealed.

I originally liked the amendment, but my school teachers scared me because they reminded me of the separation of church and state and because this is exactly what hitler did in germany. While my parents like the republicans, and I like them when I first hear their proposals, after being educated in school I now realize just how evil the republicans really are. I'm glad the Founders established the ACLU to make sure that the constitution isn't repealed.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Now that this amendment has failed in the Senate, when do we get to see the alternate choice - an amendment that requires mandatory flag burning?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Was C&T just being sarcastic? It is so difficult to tell these things over the internet with no tone of voice.

Now that this amendment has failed in the Senate, when do we get to see the alternate choice - an amendment that requires mandatory flag burning?


2009.:D

Was C&T just being sarcastic? It is so difficult to tell these things over the internet with no tone of voice.



I hope so, but that is the point of emoticons.

Was C&T just being sarcastic? It is so difficult to tell these things over the internet with no tone of voice.

I'm not sarcastic, but I'm basically combining the majority sentiment of people on the Forum in response to conservatives.

Now I ask you: Why do conservatives hate the ACLU when it was established by the Founders to protect the Bill of Rights?

I'm not sarcastic, but I'm basically combining the majority sentiment of people on the Forum in response to conservatives.

Now I ask you: Why do conservatives hate the ACLU when it was established by the Founders to protect the Bill of Rights?
Don't make it harder for us-
The ACLU was founded by Roger Baldwin, Crystal Eastman, Albert DeSilver and others in 1920. We are nonprofit and nonpartisan and have grown from a roomful of civil liberties activists to an organization of more than 500,000 members and supporters. We handle nearly 6,000 court cases annually from our offices in almost every state.
http://www.aclu.org/about/index.html

Don't make it harder for us-

http://www.aclu.org/about/index.html

That can't be though. I looked up Roger Baldwin and it says he was a communist. It can't be true because Madison endorsed the ACLU I thought, at least my teacher said this.

Seems odd, if you can double check your source, it would be nice.

That can't be though. I looked up Roger Baldwin and it says he was a communist. It can't be true because Madison endorsed the ACLU I thought, at least my teacher said this.

Seems odd, if you can double check your source, it would be nice.
The source is the ACLU itself...

Are you funnin' us? Maybe there's a fish hook in my mouth I haven't noticed...

http://cagle.msnbc.com/working/060627/lester.jpg

I originally liked the amendment, but my school teachers scared me because they reminded me of the separation of church and state and because this is exactly what hitler did in germany. While my parents like the republicans, and I like them when I first hear their proposals, after being educated in school I now realize just how evil the republicans really are. I'm glad the Founders established the ACLU to make sure that the constitution isn't repealed.
Your campaign of fake-trolling (in an apparent attempt to claim "liberals" have infected your school) is neither witty nor effective. You're not subtle. You fail.

By one vote this unAmerican amendment is fought off for one more year.

http://cagle.msnbc.com/working/060627/lester.jpg
Zing!

Now that this amendment has failed in the Senate, when do we get to see the alternate choice - an amendment that requires mandatory flag burning?


fuck yeah...

Your campaign of fake-trolling (in an apparent attempt to claim "liberals" have infected your school) is neither witty nor effective. You're not subtle. You fail.

When was the last time you've been to a public high school? It's certainly NOT fake!

When was the last time you've been to a public high school? It's certainly NOT fake!

So what are you ranting about?

When was the last time you've been to a public high school? It's certainly NOT fake!

So it's real trolling?

So it's real trolling?

No, what my teachers have taught over the years. Not all of them, but a lot of them, and my favorite ones in particular.

You know, I think it says something when people who are educated enough to educate others tend to lean towards being liberal.

No, what my teachers have taught over the years. Not all of them, but a lot of them, and my favorite ones in particular.

I very much doubt your teachers taught you that the Founding Fathers set up the ACU. Stop being so melodramatic.

No, what my teachers have taught over the years. Not all of them, but a lot of them, and my favorite ones in particular.

What's your point? That Conservatives can't teach you crap?

Maybe Conservatives simply don't care about our children enough to take up the honorable profession of teaching?

Lack of education on their part?

What reason do you think teachers lean so liberal in grade schools and colleges? Hmmm....

Ogeik said it best.

No, what my teachers have taught over the years. Not all of them, but a lot of them, and my favorite ones in particular.
Here we go again. :rolleyes:

What reason do you think teachers lean so liberal in grade schools and colleges? Hmmm....
Because, as the old axiom goes, "those that can't, teach."

The real problem here is that not one senator had the character to stand up and denounce this as moral treason.

Because, as the old axiom goes, "those that can't, teach."

Buddha, Socrates, and Jesus were all teachers.

Because, as the old axiom goes, "those that can't, teach."
And that old axiom is so wrong it's not even funny.

Barry youre obviously the early Barrygoldwater "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice" as opposed to the kinder, gentler quasi-libertarian Goldwater he was when he died. As for me, I err on the side of freedom. The flag represents free speech. Burning a flag, to me (being an amateur vexillologist) is offencive, but it is also speech. We dont need any more laws than we already have (actually we already have too many laws, if you want My opinion).

As an american I choose not to burn my flag but I respect the rights of others to do as they please with it .

My question is ; Why do you choose to burn the constitution , something much more important than any bunch of collored fiber ?

Because, as the old axiom goes, "those that can't, teach."

I'm cool with that. Still doesn't explain why Conservatives who are so concerned about our children and so concerned about what they learn but can't be arsed to become a teacher? Unless our conservatives friends want to admit that there is no bias in teaching institutions.

As an american I choose not to burn my flag but I respect the rights of others to do as they please with it .

My question is ; Why do you choose to burn the constitution , something much more important than any bunch of collored fiber ?
Er... Probably because, sadly, most Americans wouldn't reconize it?

Because, as the old axiom goes, "those that can't, teach."
that old axiom must have been invented by someone who never tried teaching anyone anything. it's much more hard-work to teach than to do. i would know, i've done them both.

I feel like burning 66 flags and sending the ashes of each to one of the Senators who supported this.

What's your point? That Conservatives can't teach you crap?

Maybe Conservatives simply don't care about our children enough to take up the honorable profession of teaching?

Lack of education on their part?

What reason do you think teachers lean so liberal in grade schools and colleges? Hmmm....
Simple, unions tend to be left wing to the extreme and to teach in most public schools you have to become part of the union. It drives quite a few teachers who are conservative out of the public teaching profession. If you were to go through private schools you would find a much greater amount of conservative teachers. Not to mention that public school beauacracy is enough to drive any good conservative who isn't interested in politics to drink.

I feel like burning 66 flags and sending the ashes of each to one of the Senators who supported this.
Make sure they're little flags. That could get expensive.

Simple, unions tend to be left wing to the extreme and to teach in most public schools you have to become part of the union. It drives quite a few teachers who are conservative out of the public teaching profession. If you were to go through private schools you would find a much greater amount of conservative teachers. Not to mention that public school beauacracy is enough to drive any good conservative who isn't interested in politics to drink.

So being a public school teacher is bad because you have to join a union to ensure you are getting a good salary and benefits? The union is on YOUR side. I dont understand why conservatives reject unions as they do.

Frankly, there is WAY, WAY more maligning of the flag done by people who support the US than people who oppose it. In any case, I think America is just fine with people able to burn flags.

So being a public school teacher is bad because you have to join a union to ensure you are getting a good salary and benefits? The union is on YOUR side. I dont understand why conservatives reject unions as they do.
Because they dream of being the one who pay the bad salary with no benefits.

So being a public school teacher is bad because you have to join a union to ensure you are getting a good salary and benefits? The union is on YOUR side. I dont understand why conservatives reject unions as they do.

Maybe you don't know what's happened to a lot of unions in the US.

We can start with the Teamsters.

Or the UAW, where it's pretty clear that the union is moving hand in hand with management to fuck the whole company out of business.

Barry youre obviously the early Barrygoldwater "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice" as opposed to the kinder, gentler quasi-libertarian Goldwater he was when he died.
Goldwater was always a Libertarian. He followed his own sayings, for example he dodged abortion laws to help his daughter.

I REFUSE to read 39 pages! But I will say that I'm bothered by the fact that 66 Senators voted for it. If I see someone burning the flag, I'm going to exersize my 1st amendment rights, but I don't think we need a Constitutional Amendment!

I have no problem with people burning flags.
People burning money.
People burning crosses.

Burn whatever the hell you want, it's a free country.
(Just don't burn people)

It drives quite a few teachers who are conservative out of the public teaching profession.

It depends on where you live. I went to both public and private. One of the most liberal teachers I ever had was in a Catholic school. Go figure.

Many of the teachers I had were conservative.

They just knew how to seperate their values and teach the topic. The liberals tended to do the same.

There were others that didn't. Both sides had them.


Here is something that will make your head explode:

My uncle was in the UAW. My father-in-law was in the electricians union. They are arch-conservative and conservative.

Unions are not filled with the EBIL LIBS.

Simple, unions tend to be left wing to the extreme and to teach in most public schools you have to become part of the union. It drives quite a few teachers who are conservative out of the public teaching profession. If you were to go through private schools you would find a much greater amount of conservative teachers. Not to mention that public school beauacracy is enough to drive any good conservative who isn't interested in politics to drink.

Yeah, it's the fault of unions. I'm sure that's it.

And in colleges...?

Because, as the old axiom goes, "those that can't, teach."


And those that can have few teeth, and drink in a doublewide? :rolleyes:

Simple, unions tend to be left wing to the extreme and to teach in most public schools you have to become part of the union. It drives quite a few teachers who are conservative out of the public teaching profession. If you were to go through private schools you would find a much greater amount of conservative teachers. Not to mention that public school beauacracy is enough to drive any good conservative who isn't interested in politics to drink.

In other words, they can't be arsed except to take the EASY way out.

I'm cool with that. Still doesn't explain why Conservatives who are so concerned about our children and so concerned about what they learn but can't be arsed to become a teacher? Unless our conservatives friends want to admit that there is no bias in teaching institutions.

Plenty of conservative teachers teaching in private schools.

So, if you can't burn a rather tatty US flag to dispose of it - what do you do?

Feed it through a shredder?

Everyone keeps talking Freedom of Speech and The New York Times is hiding behind Freedom of Press. Well they are actually wrong b/c the majority of amendments are treated as concepts and not rights or freedoms. Limitations and translations on the amendments have been going on since the conception of the Constitution. Last time I checked the second amendment doesn't say I can't have an Uzi or an automatic rifle yet the government says no.

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.-2nd Amendment


Or how about the 9th amendment? Bush has broken this amendment and so have alot of judges.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.-9th Amendment


Best example of that one is the issue of gay marriage. To the best of my knowledge, nowhere in the original writing of the Constitution does it define marriage. However, the constant bans and re-defining marriage goes against this amendment because it is being construed to deny the rights of homosexuals.

These are all concepts. And the 1st amendment has been twisted and turned other times in history to meet certain administration needs and beliefs.

I personally do believe that the flag should be protected and the fact that there has always been limitations on our "freedoms" means that protecting our flag from desicration is fairly up for grabs since this nation has construed the Bill of Rights and the Constitution for years.

What are you talking about?

It's a blatant add for the ACLU.

Plenty of conservative teachers teaching in private schools.

Ah. That would make sense. Most of the poor kids are in public schools. If you want to teach children, why teach the ones that need you most. Of course, I don't really believe that.

People can start admitting, it's not really like that and that there's a split of conservatives and liberals in schools just like everywhere else in America.

Or keep arguing that conservatives don't care enough about the children in public schools to become their teachers.

Because, as the old axiom goes, "those that can't, teach."

And those that can't teach, become critics on Internet boards.

Ahh George Benard Shaw......

So, if you can't burn a rather tatty US flag to dispose of it - what do you do?

Feed it through a shredder?

Flush it down the toilet.

I'm cool with that. Still doesn't explain why Conservatives who are so concerned about our children and so concerned about what they learn but can't be arsed to become a teacher? Unless our conservatives friends want to admit that there is no bias in teaching institutions.

Bias? Is there a conservative way to teach math, science, english, art?

I thought they just taught like the ebil commie libs......

Bias? Is there a conservative way to teach math, science, english, art?

I thought they just taught like the ebil commie libs......

That's the point exactly. There is no logical reason for a unusual leaning of learning institutions unless conservatives are actively avoiding teaching our youth.