NationStates Jolt Archive

Its not the first time Europe has been the frontline of an Islamic invasion. Nearly a thousand years ago they found themselves in the same predicament. Spain was overrun by Moors, France was threatened by Moorish invasion from Spain, Greece and the Balkans were dominated by Muslims for centuries, and Italy has always been subject to raiding by rouge Berbers throughout the Mediterranean, and Germany, Italy, France, and Prussians barely stopped Muslims from getting into the heartland of Europe at Vienna. The Byzantine Empire held off Islamic invasion for nearly 500 years, until it fell to the Turks.

Now, they find themselves in the exact same spot they were in 700 years ago. This is nothing more than a continuation of Islamic conquest. Except now they’re accomplishing it by infiltration, rather than a military invasion.

But make no mistake, these immigrants (who remain Islamic) are militant. Their mosques do not belong in Europe- they are terrorist training centers- the youth being brainwashed and turned into future soldiers. Europe is having a wake-up call- albeit they’re waking up slow. But waking up nonetheless. If they were fully awake, they would expel every mullah and imam, and any other Muslim not at least trying to absorb themselves to some aspects of Western society. They cannot be allowed to practice Sharia. The goal of the “Missionaries” of Islam is to kill you, or convert you. Everyone must be bound by Sharia. And it awaits at European doorsteps if they don’t continue hardening their stance against it.

Kudos to the efforts they’ve made thus far- but it isn’t enough. But the saddest part of this whole thing is that Europeans (and Americans too) will have to violate many of our own principles of Freedom in order to accomplish any victory against the Islamic invasion.

Freedom of religion would be jeopardized, Freedom of speech would be jeopardized, Freedom in general would be jeopardized if we started throwing people in jail for beliefs or speech. It seems intolerant, tolerance being something we value highly. We essentially deny Muslims their rights of freedom, and we become intolerant of them.

However, it would be far worse not to harden against them. Give them an inch, they’ll take a mile. Your freedom of the press would be threatened (as evidenced by the Political Cartoon fiasco in Denmark) you couldn’t say what you wished, for fear of offending Islam, and landing your butt in jail- or death, if they can get that on you. You couldn’t practice your own religion (atheism, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, etc..) because it is false- not Islam. Women would be forced to wear the burqa. How’s that for a setback in women’s rights. If we don’t “break” our own rules now, they will be broken later- and it’ll be too late by then. The Crusades never ended- they just lay dormant for a few centuries- but now they’re back. And whoever wins this go around, wins forever- Freedom, or slavery. That’s our choice. I’d rather go for long term freedom, than eternal slavery.

Sectist history freak.

"Stand fast against the Brown Horde, brothers!


THE ARYAN WAY OF LIFE SHALL NEVER DIE!"

so,we came out of nowhere,full of predictions ,technologies and mathematics,"we" were greater than the master "we"got our revenge ,"we" colonalized them,and give them the opportunity to be our slaves in the name of civilisation....
This was fun,but now it is pay back time,how can?,we did it so good,and god too, he made the bosphorus ,Gibraltar as well as the Ourals...
Yeah it,is not the first time,and will not be the last.

Go to sleep and have good dreams,but be good ,Ok!!!!!

:fluffle: :upyours:

Ah yes, the old "immigration is invasion" conspiracy shit.

How do people like you manage to continue breathing? I mean, you DO know that this so-called "oxygen based life" is nothing more than an attempt by Muslims to infiltrate and destroy the purity of your lungs, yes?

I think you mean Muslims invented smoking :p

I think you mean Muslims invented smoking :p

who is thinking of such a desaster,?
Awnser : the Camel :D (only to see in zoo's,and war films)

:eek:

First of all, you're mistaking "Moslims" for "Al-Qaida." All Al-Qaida members are Moslims, but not all Moslims, and indeed most Moslims outside the Middle East don't even support them, are not Al-Qaida.

Second of all, Moslim invasion? Al-Qaida has blown up what, three buses and a couple of buildings in Europe in the past five years the war has been going on. Westerners invaded Afganistan after Al-Qaida, which pretty much ruled it, attacked the United States, which is understandable; they attack us, we attack them.

Then Westerners invaded Iraq, killed hundreds, and destroyed the native government, calling it "liberation." Al-Qaida might have what, two million members/supporters? Out of tens of millions of Moslims in the world who's only crime is sharing the same religion with them. And Iraq wasn't even run by Al-Qaida like Afganistan was; it was ruled by a horrible, but unrelated dictatorship.

Oppresing millions of Moslims because of a small number of Islamic fanatics isn't self-defense, it's bloodthirsty revenge and intolerence. I agree that Al-Qaida must be fought, but leave the rest of the members of one of the world's largest religions out of it.

Yes, Middle Easterners tried to invade the West five years ago, but now Westerners are invading the Middle East with ten times the force, and attacking countries that have nothing to do(well, before they were attacked and became war fronts, anyway) with Islamic terrorists.

But make no mistake, these immigrants (who remain Islamic) are militant. Their mosques do not belong in Europe- they are terrorist training centers- the youth being brainwashed and turned into future soldiers.

Unsubstantiated, paranoid, generalizations.

the saddest part of this whole thing is that Europeans (and Americans too) will have to violate many of our own principles of Freedom in order to accomplish any victory against the Islamic invasion.

Freedom of religion would be jeopardized, Freedom of speech would be jeopardized, Freedom in general would be jeopardized if we started throwing people in jail for beliefs or speech. It seems intolerant, tolerance being something we value highly. We essentially deny Muslims their rights of freedom, and we become intolerant of them.

Yeah. So is the threat to freedom Muslims... or is people like you?

I'll take a wild guess and say people like you, since you're the one openly advocating violating your precious "freedoms" even while you hypocritically claim to support freedom.

It's not just "seems intolerant." It *is* intolerant. And you're willing to throw freedom away just for a chance to get at the hidden, subversive threat you perceive in a population segment based on ethnicity/religion.

GOSH WHERE HAVE I SEEN THAT BEFORE IN EUROPE?

Give them an inch, they’ll take a mile.

They said the same thing about every minority and ethnic group that's ever come along.

Except I'm pretty sure they used the metric system.

Your freedom of the press would be threatened (as evidenced by the Political Cartoon fiasco in Denmark)

Ah yes, as evidenced by how Denmark now outlaws the publication of those kinds of cartoons.

OH WAIT IT DOESNT.

Freedom, or slavery. That’s our choice. I’d rather go for long term freedom, than eternal slavery.

And by "long term freedom," you mean, "saying fuck-you to freedom, once and for all."

*spit*

There's your fucking freedom, for all the value you appear to hold for it.

First of all, you're mistaking "Moslims" for "Al-Qaida." All Al-Qaida members are Moslims, but not all Moslims, and indeed most Moslims outside the Middle East don't even support them, are not Al-Qaida.

Second of all, Moslim invasion? Al-Qaida has blown up what, three buses and a couple of buildings in Europe in the past five years the war has been going on. Westerners invaded Afganistan after Al-Qaida, which pretty much ruled it, attacked the United States, which is understandable; they attack us, we attack them.


If I rememeber correctly, 5 trains bombed, about one or two buses bombed, and that whole, "paris is burning" fiasco. Islamic terrorists behind everyone. How about that shmuck of a sheik who only spews hate against the West in every mosque in Britain, telling all muslims to join in the fight. British athorities cant shut him up because he has a right to speak his mind, even though he pushes for violence against the West. Yeah, very peaceful they are.....

Ah yes, as evidenced by how Denmark now outlaws the publication of those kinds of cartoons.

OH WAIT IT DOESNT.


yeah so why are a lot of the newspapers and the media in Britain and Denmark trying to bend over backwards to not publish anything that might "offend" the Muslims?

If I rememeber correctly, 5 trains bombed, about one or two buses bombed, and that whole, "paris is burning" fiasco. Islamic terrorists behind everyone. How about that shmuck of a sheik who only spews hate against the West in every mosque in Britain, telling all muslims to join in the fight. British athorities cant shut him up because he has a right to speak his mind, even though he pushes for violence against the West. Yeah, very peaceful they are.....

Oh right. Islamic militants behind the paris riots. And here was I and the rest of the fucking world thinking it was to do with ghettoizing Paris. Silly us, eh?

By "The shmuck [sic] of a sheik" do you mean Abu Hamza? The guy that's now in jail for preaching said hatred? Yes, I rather think you do.

And where was the other bus bombed in Europe? And where are your facts? Oh, that's right. You must have left them up your ass while you were rooting around for more spurious arguments.

yeah so why are a lot of the newspapers and the media in Britain and Denmark trying to bend over backwards to not publish anything that might "offend" the Muslims?

Are they now? Well, unless you can show that the government has ordered/oppressed the media to shut up about it, the "evidence" for the Danish Cartoon Fiasco leading to limitation-of-freedom simply doesn't exist.

Islam is not a threat to freedom.

Islamism, however, is. notbecauseof these figment of your imagination called al qaeda, but because of scumbag governments like the saudi monarchy.

"And here was I and the rest of the fucking world thinking it was to do with ghettoizing Paris. Silly us, eh?"

Silly you, silly me, silly Pascal Mailhos, head of the Renseignements Généraux (French intelligence agency) the influence of radical islamism in the 2005 civil unrest in France was nil.

If I rememeber correctly, 5 trains bombed, about one or two buses bombed, and that whole, "paris is burning" fiasco. Islamic terrorists behind everyone. How about that shmuck of a sheik who only spews hate against the West in every mosque in Britain, telling all muslims to join in the fight. British athorities cant shut him up because he has a right to speak his mind, even though he pushes for violence against the West. Yeah, very peaceful they are.....

In the 1970s the terrorist attacks (far more than today) were coming from the German Red Army (Baader-Meinhof Gang), the Italian Red Brigades, the Basque ETA, Greece's November 17, France's National Front for the Liberation of Corsica (NFLN), and the Irish Republican Army.

Would you have characterized that as some sort of invasion or was that a civil war?


ETA killed 800 people from 1968 to 2003
The IRA killed 1,775 people over a 27-year period
NFLN mounted hundreds of bomb attacks and occasional assassination attempts since the mid-1970s
German Red Army kidnapped business leaders, gunned down politicians, prosecutors and police officers, bombed corporation headquarters and U.S. military bases, and hijacked an airliner
November 17 claimed responsibility for more than 20 killings from 1975 to 2002. Among those it assassinated were a CIA station chief, a U.S. Navy captain, defense attaches at the British and American embassies, and a Turkish diplomat.
Red Brigades killed hundreds of government officials, judges and lawyers, and police officers. In 1978, Red Brigades members kidnapped and murdered former Prime Minister Aldo Moro.

i guess we all can debate,after that, fight each other(with a rightfull feeling),then nuke each other or bomb each other,again and again,,,,
if there is no ponctuation ,it is because we all know!...
Isn't it?

The original posters words are hauntingly similar to some I have heard before

Compare and contrast:

Kudos to the efforts they’ve made thus far- but it isn’t enough. But the saddest part of this whole thing is that Europeans (and Americans too) will have to violate many of our own principles of Freedom in order to accomplish any victory against the Islamic invasion.

-The Niamen, Addressing NationStates Players

with:

The highest freedom comes from obedience. Obedience which is prepared to render each and every sacrifice to pride, to external honour and to all that is dear to us personally. We have the moral right, we have a duty to our people. We must destroy this people who want to destroy us. We must fulfill this most difficult duty for the love of our people. I say to you in the name of that love, that our spirit, our soul, our character will not suffer injury from it.

-Heinrich Himmler, Addressing the SS in 1943

"Oh noes the muslims are going to kill us all!!":rollseyes:

I bet the muslims were thinking the same thing about the christians during the crusades. Oh wait that was in the name of God. (note i am an atheist). Hmm me sees similar situations

"And here was I and the rest of the fucking world thinking it was to do with ghettoizing Paris. Silly us, eh?"

Silly you, silly me, silly Pascal Mailhos, head of the Renseignements Généraux (French intelligence agency) the influence of radical islamism in the 2005 civil unrest in France was nil.

elaborate over the guy ,please?
does he think class/social war is chaos.and if ,why?

this is a debate,remember?

Class/social war is usually nto chaos but in Paris earlier this year all hell broke loose. Rioting, fires all over the city. A lot of suppressed anger that exploded in one go.

ok I voted wrong...totally didn't know that this was going to turn out to be racist, thought it was more about a theocracy muslim state, which is bad, but not as bad a the fukin nazis.

and that whole, "paris is burning" fiasco. Islamic terrorists behind everyone.

How odd. I live there, and I never even noticed it was the act of Islamist terrorists.

Oh, wait... Maybe because IT WASN'T, you ignorant nutjob!

*yawns* More of the same rubbish. And the really ironic thing is, the few Muslims I know are amongst the most intelligent, open-minded, educated and progressive people I know. Compare that with your narrow-minded, moronic, cowardly xenophobia.

You're running scared, and you're not even smart enough to realise your fear comes from your own ignorance.

Class/social war is usually nto chaos but in Paris earlier this year all hell broke loose. Rioting, fires all over the city. A lot of suppressed anger that exploded in one go.
but it has more correlation with frustation dan nothing else.
PS: i was there and it was far from fire and flame,and it didn't explode....
Not yet...
you only saw what was to see....
and for some, it is daily confrontation.

to you(Londin):
Are you an armchair spectator?

Please, please, PLEASE!!! FIND SOME NEW TOPICS!

This is bullshit!

An armchair spectator? No. I evaluate situations and weigh up arguments. I am active in a few things here and there to with politics. I view all sides of an argument then form my own opnion. BTW the exploding thing was just a metaphor.

Anyway many people seem to hide behind silly reasons to push their own ignorant ideas. If you look past the fact that some muslims are people then you will see that a minority of these people use it to push their own fanatical ideas which are opposed by the majority.

"Stand fast against the Brown Horde, brothers!


THE ARYAN WAY OF LIFE SHALL NEVER DIE!"

JA!

Can I wear my rubber storm trooper pants at the rallies?

An armchair spectator? No. I evaluate situations and weigh up arguments.
but between evaluation and situation is, one difference,the one there and the other one here
I am active in a few things here and there to with politics. I view all sides of an argument then form my own opnion. BTW the exploding thing was just a metaphor.
i'm sure you are not alone

Anyway many people
Who are they?
seem to hide behind silly reasons
what is silly?
Who are you to judge them?
to push their own ignorant ideas. If you look past the fact that some muslims are people then you will see that a minority of these people use it to push their own fanatical ideas which are opposed by the majority.

look who is talking now

Well i like YOU to explain me why,is believing better than faith.

Most Muslems I know are not very militant...

Question for you: How many Muslems do YOU know?

Neither is better than the other. Without faith the world would be a boring and in my opinion unfeeling place. If people didn't have faith in doctors then would they visit them? No. Some people have faith in God which I respect regardless of religion. I don't believe in God so I can't have faith in something I do not believe.

Who are they?

I don't know. Anyone yo u want to put there you can.

Okay I can't judge them but that is my opinion of neo nazis ,islamism ( note: different to Islam) and other things. I'm sure some peole perceive me as that way.

Firstly, your characterisation of Islam in Mediaeval Europe is historically inaccurate and racist. The Islamic presence in Europe was a good thing, it served as a redress to the Catholic Church, who had been corrupted by their power by showing people that it was not the only true faith. And furthermore the Islamic States in Europe have all been much better in what we would call 'respect for Human Rights' than their Christian counterparts, al-Andalus, the Muslim nation of Spain allowed total tolerance for members of all faiths, whereas the Christian nations which overthrew it instigated the Inquisition, a campaign of forced conversions, state torture and alegal executions.

The Ottoman Empire was a worthy successor to Rome, it continued the legacy of scientific and technical innovation and added many things besides. A lot of medical techniques originated in Ottoman Turkey. The Empire did not evangelise like the Europeans, instead they allowed freedom of religion in the Balkans. Unfortunately, as history is often cruel, this liberty ultimately came to lead to their downfall as Tsarist Russia incited the Yugoslav peoples to rebel against the Ottomans.

Secondly, you underestimate the value of freedom, probably because you yourself hate it. Once immersed in a Free society it is impossible for a subculture to stay oppressive for long. The dominant ideology is that you should be able to do what you want, and every subsequent generation it becomes harder and harder for an imam to argue with that.

So, if you absolutely must see it in Barbaric terms, then Freedom is winning over Islam, but in a battle over people's hearts, not through force and intolerance. Within a few generations Islam will seem no more deviant than Protestantism.

I think Islam will be good for europe.

Firstly, your characterisation of Islam in Mediaeval Europe is historically inaccurate and racist. The Islamic presence in Europe was a good thing, it served as a redress to the Catholic Church, who had been corrupted by their power by showing people that it was not the only true faith. And furthermore the Islamic States in Europe have all been much better in what we would call 'respect for Human Rights' than their Christian counterparts, al-Andalus, the Muslim nation of Spain allowed total tolerance for members of all faiths, whereas the Christian nations which overthrew it instigated the Inquisition, a campaign of forced conversions, state torture and alegal executions.

The Ottoman Empire was a worthy successor to Rome, it continued the legacy of scientific and technical innovation and added many things besides. A lot of medical techniques originated in Ottoman Turkey. The Empire did not evangelise like the Europeans, instead they allowed freedom of religion in the Balkans. Unfortunately, as history is often cruel, this liberty ultimately came to lead to their downfall as Tsarist Russia incited the Yugoslav peoples to rebel against the Ottomans.

Secondly, you underestimate the value of freedom, probably because you yourself hate it. Once immersed in a Free society it is impossible for a subculture to stay oppressive for long. The dominant ideology is that you should be able to do what you want, and every subsequent generation it becomes harder and harder for an imam to argue with that.

So, if you absolutely must see it in Barbaric terms, then Freedom is winning over Islam, but in a battle over people's hearts, not through force and intolerance. Within a few generations Islam will seem no more deviant than Protestantism.
What about the laws regarding dhimmis? Certainly the Islamic world was more tolerant than Europe at that point, but compared to today it was still pretty repressive. Europe progressed in areas like democratic government and human rights, but certain elements in the Muslim ummah still cling to repressive ideologies of the past.

Firstly, your characterisation of Islam in Mediaeval Europe is historically inaccurate and racist. The Islamic presence in Europe was a good thing, it served as a redress to the Catholic Church, who had been corrupted by their power by showing people that it was not the only true faith. And furthermore the Islamic States in Europe have all been much better in what we would call 'respect for Human Rights' than their Christian counterparts, al-Andalus, the Muslim nation of Spain allowed total tolerance for members of all faiths, whereas the Christian nations which overthrew it instigated the Inquisition, a campaign of forced conversions, state torture and alegal executions.

The Ottoman Empire was a worthy successor to Rome, it continued the legacy of scientific and technical innovation and added many things besides. A lot of medical techniques originated in Ottoman Turkey. The Empire did not evangelise like the Europeans, instead they allowed freedom of religion in the Balkans. Unfortunately, as history is often cruel, this liberty ultimately came to lead to their downfall as Tsarist Russia incited the Yugoslav peoples to rebel against the Ottomans.

Secondly, you underestimate the value of freedom, probably because you yourself hate it. Once immersed in a Free society it is impossible for a subculture to stay oppressive for long. The dominant ideology is that you should be able to do what you want, and every subsequent generation it becomes harder and harder for an imam to argue with that.

So, if you absolutely must see it in Barbaric terms, then Freedom is winning over Islam, but in a battle over people's hearts, not through force and intolerance. Within a few generations Islam will seem no more deviant than Protestantism.


protestantism is not deviant,it is an option of religion and reality means same shit

Value of freedom is so much like god,it is an illusion,.
Tell me your idea of freedom?

What about the laws regarding dhimmis? Certainly the Islamic world was more tolerant than Europe at that point, but compared to today it was still pretty repressive. Europe progressed in areas like democratic government and human rights, but certain elements in the Muslim ummah still cling to repressive ideologies of the past.

The law regarding Dhimmis was different, but it was by no means inferior. Dhimmis were immune to certain obligations that Muslims were not, and vice versa. All in all a much better situation than in Christendom when adherence to a different faith could have you killed.

Europe did ultimately progress when the Ummah did not. But the fact is that for a while Islam proved to be a major civilising force in the world, and there is no reason why it cannot be again.

First of all, you're mistaking "Moslims" for "Al-Qaida." All Al-Qaida members are Moslims, but not all Moslims, and indeed most Moslims outside the Middle East don't even support them, are not Al-Qaida.

Second of all, Moslim invasion? Al-Qaida has blown up what, three buses and a couple of buildings in Europe in the past five years the war has been going on. Westerners invaded Afganistan after Al-Qaida, which pretty much ruled it, attacked the United States, which is understandable; they attack us, we attack them.

Then Westerners invaded Iraq, killed hundreds, and destroyed the native government, calling it "liberation." Al-Qaida might have what, two million members/supporters? Out of tens of millions of Moslims in the world who's only crime is sharing the same religion with them. And Iraq wasn't even run by Al-Qaida like Afganistan was; it was ruled by a horrible, but unrelated dictatorship.

Oppresing millions of Moslims because of a small number of Islamic fanatics isn't self-defense, it's bloodthirsty revenge and intolerence. I agree that Al-Qaida must be fought, but leave the rest of the members of one of the world's largest religions out of it.

Yes, Middle Easterners tried to invade the West five years ago, but now Westerners are invading the Middle East with ten times the force, and attacking countries that have nothing to do(well, before they were attacked and became war fronts, anyway) with Islamic terrorists.

Then these peaceful Muslims should join the Westerners in the fight against Al-Qaida that is making the rest of you Muslims look like terrorist.

I heard that the Jew is using the ****** as muscle against the white man. It was in The Blues Brothers.

protestantism is not deviant,it is an option of religion and reality means same shit

Value of freedom is so much like god,it is an illusion,.
Tell me your idea of freedom?

I mentioned Protestantism as an example of something that was once seen as deviant to European culture, but is now seen as an essential part of it. Your ability to understand what I am saying seems equal to your ability to understand how the comma works.

And Freedom is not an illusion, it is, when it is actually present, the most palpable thing to the Human sense and sensuality. My idea of Freedom is a situation where ones' actions are limited only by practicality and where ones' mind and soul are truly able to achieve their true potential.

The law regarding Dhimmis was different, but it was by no means inferior. Dhimmis were immune to certain obligations that Muslims were not, and vice versa. All in all a much better situation than in Christendom when adherence to a different faith could have you killed.

Europe did ultimately progress when the Ummah did not. But the fact is that for a while Islam proved to be a major civilising force in the world, and there is no reason why it cannot be again.
One of the main obstacles in it's way is the vocal and violent minority in the Muslim community who want to turn the clock back.

One of the main obstacles in it's way is the vocal and violent minority in the Muslim community who want to turn the clock back.

That's true. But we also must not overlook the work of Islamic Moderates, who are doing some terrific theological work. For example, there are Islamic movements in Russia which are much more liberal than the Russian Orthodox Church (which is legitimately criticised for even now being a puppet of the Kremlin), which is why Islam is taking root in Russia.

I believe that this theological debate will take foot in Europe, and Muslims will realise that there is no dichotomy in being tolerant liberals and being Muslims.

I mentioned Protestantism as an example of something that was once seen as deviant to European culture, but is now seen as an essential part of it. Your ability to understand what I am saying seems equal to your ability to understand how the comma works.

And Freedom is not an illusion, it is, when it is actually present, the most palpable thing to the Human sense and sensuality. My idea of Freedom is a situation where ones' actions are limited only by practicality and where ones' mind and soul are truly able to achieve their true potential.
between comas and illusion i agree with you ,you just have to look behind the smoke screen,only by seeing lies, will you see it.....
Freedom is somethig like choice isn't it?

Muslims are not a threat. The terrorist groups within their ranks are. I believe a nation has the right to control its' borders, but this is ridiculous.