NationStates Jolt Archive


Here we go again! Somalia now has extremist Moslem ruler.

Eutrusca
26-06-2006, 15:22
COMMENTARY: Another hotbed of terrorism in the works here, or just another warlord? God help Africa!


New Militant Leader Emerges in Mogadishu (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/26/world/africa/26somalia.html?hp&ex=1151380800&en=e1b1bfed28630a6e&ei=5094&partner=homepage)


By MARC LACEY
Published: June 26, 2006
NAIROBI, Kenya, June 25 — The jockeying for power inside Somalia took a potentially ominous turn over the weekend as a Muslim sheik whom the Bush administration has linked to terrorism emerged as the leader of the Islamic militants who seized control of the capital, Mogadishu, earlier this month.

The sheik, Hassan Dahir Aweys, was appointed the leader of the Council of the Islamic Courts, the newly formed governing entity of the movement that ousted Mogadishu's secular warlords on June 5. Previously, the public face of the Islamists had been Sharif Ahmed, a more moderate sheik who had spoken of his desire to work with the West.

The emergence of Mr. Aweys may represent another setback for the Bush administration's policy in Somalia. Mr. Aweys, a former military colonel, was vice chairman of Al Itihaad, an Islamic group that Washington labeled a terrorist group in the weeks after the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001.

Mr. Aweys, 71, who wears a bushy beard dyed bright red with henna in the traditional Somali way, was similarly cited for links to terrorism and barred from visiting the United States. No evidence to back up the claim was given at the time.

Usually reclusive, Mr. Aweys has spoken to reporters in recent months, disavowing links with terrorism and accusing the West of being too quick to label Islamist leaders throughout the Muslim world extremists. [ HA! ]

Still, Mr. Aweys, of the powerful Ayr clan, has publicly told followers that God would forgive them for spilling the blood of any foreign peacekeepers who set foot on Somali soil. He has also said Somalis who hand over their countrymen to American operatives in exchange for cash are guilty of "selling us to the Jews."

Mr. Aweys was appointed to lead a new 88-member council at a meeting of hundreds of Islamic leaders in Mogadishu on Saturday night. Earlier in the week, a delegation of Somali Islamists agreed to recognize and work together with the secular government that was formed in 2004 after long peace negotiations involving all of Somalia's clans. That United Nations-backed government, based in the provincial town of Baidoa because Mogadishu had been considered too dangerous for it to relocate there, is struggling to gain a foothold.

Mr. Aweys has repeatedly declared that an Islamic state is the only answer for Somalia, which has effectively been in anarchy since its last government fell in 1991. Mr. Aweys is a critic of the secular government and a longtime foe of its president, Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed.

In the 1990's, Mr. Aweys and Mr. Yusuf led military campaigns against each other, and those who know them say the enmity remains.

"The Western world should respect our own ideas in choosing the way we want to govern our country, the way we want to go about our own business," Mr. Aweys said in an interview with The Associated Press last fall. "That is our right."

In recent years, the United States backed a covert program to pay Mogadishu's warlords for their assistance in tracking down those in Somalia with links to terrorism.

That policy backfired, however, when Islamists banded together earlier this year and took on the American-backed warlords, ousting them from the capital. In an effort to recover, American officials have in recent weeks lent their support to Somalia's transitional government, which had only lukewarm backing from Washington before.

The Bush administration has said its top priority in Somalia remains rooting out members of Al Qaeda who Washington believes are being protected in Mogadishu.

"It is very clear that there are foreign terrorists in Somalia," Jendayi Frazer, the assistant secretary of state for African affairs, told reporters in Nairobi last week.

She called for the Islamic leaders in Mogadishu to hand them over, citing the names of three foreigners who she said were in Somalia and have been linked to terrorist attacks in East Africa — Fazul Abdullah Mohammed of Comoros, Saleh Ali Saleh Nabhan of Kenya and Abu Taha al-Sudani of Sudan.

Somalia watchers were still waiting Sunday for signs of whether the appointment of Mr. Aweys represented a significant shift in the Islamic leaders' intentions toward the West.

"It's too early to have a complete assessment," said Mario Raffaelli, the Italian special envoy for Somalia. "We have to see if they are dropping dialogue or just adding more voices to the discussion."

In fact, some analysts said that the appointment of Mr. Aweys might prove a good thing by bringing his hard-line views into the open. Sharif Ahmed, the movement's former leader, considered more of a moderate in his views toward secular government, remains head of a newly formed executive committee that will handle day-to-day affairs, officials said.

"Engagement is still the answer," said Mr. Raffaelli, who has urged his government and others following developments in Somalia not to respond precipitously to the elevation of Mr. Aweys. "To say a so-called bad guy is in charge will only serve to reinforce the extremists. This movement continues to have moderate voices."

Mr. Aweys's backers are known to be well armed, and his ascendance is seen as connected to a regional struggle in the Horn of Africa. A May 2006 report by a United Nations panel of experts studying violations to the arms embargo in Somalia said Mr. Aweys's militant group still had operations in the country and had received numerous arms shipments from Eritrea, which analysts say is trying to destabilize its avowed enemy, Ethiopia.

Mr. Aweys has clashed in the past with Ethiopia. His militia was soundly defeated by the Ethiopian Army in the early 1990's. Ethiopian officials have made it clear in recent months that they do not intend to allow any government that threatens stability in their country to emerge in Somalia.

Abukar Albadri contributed reporting from Mogadishu, Somalia, for this article.
Teh_pantless_hero
26-06-2006, 15:27
Mr. Aweys has spoken to reporters in recent months, disavowing links with terrorism and accusing the West of being too quick to label Islamist leaders throughout the Muslim world extremists. [ HA! ]
The editor's note is sooo not contradictory. :rolleyes:
Swilatia
26-06-2006, 15:32
great. now somalia is also a theocracy. This just sucks.
Iztatepopotla
26-06-2006, 15:33
Yup. They've been taking more and more of the territory in the past four weeks or so, practically the entire southern Somalia now; and probably will constitute a government to talk with northern Somalia.

Anyway, this guy seems to be walking a pretty thin line between catering to his base and the practical issues of running a government. We'll see how that goes.
Kryozerkia
26-06-2006, 15:33
Eut... I guess, since you can't show any common sense, that maybe the mods will have to have a nice little chat with you, since "Moslim" is a racially offensive term and the correct term is "Muslim".
Andaluciae
26-06-2006, 15:36
My experience tends to make me lean towards "random warlord".
New Foxxinnia
26-06-2006, 15:36
Somalia is still up for grabs though, right?
Deep Kimchi
26-06-2006, 15:38
It's not news. And Somalia is a dirtspot.
Iztatepopotla
26-06-2006, 15:39
Eut... I guess, since you can't show any common sense, that maybe the mods will have to have a nice little chat with you, since "Moslim" is a racially offensive term and the correct term is "Muslim".
It is? Now, that's just ridiculous. What? Are people going to get mad because other people don't dot their I's with little hearts? C'mon, I'm as aware of cultural differences as any other, but it's one thing to get offended at a clearly offensive term and quite another to get offended at a spelling.

OTOH, Eutrusca gets offended at the term USian, so maybe you're on to something there.
Ieuano
26-06-2006, 15:39
Somaliland isnt that bad, they rule themselves up there while the rest of somalia annihlates itself
Drunk commies deleted
26-06-2006, 15:42
Somaliland isnt that bad, they rule themselves up there while the rest of somalia annihlates itself
Yep. They actually have a government and some democratic institutions. Heavily Islam-based, but still democratic. Somaila, on the other hand, is a complete mess. Nothing but Khat, gunfights and starvation.
Secret aj man
26-06-2006, 15:43
The editor's note is sooo not contradictory. :rolleyes:

of coarse i will give them the benifit of the doubt...right up to the point that another innocent kid gets killed!

thats what we do....let the the fuckin crazie's alone,,,,then they kill innocent kids...then we retaliate...then europe admonishes us..we say fuck off,cause we are mad..round and round we go..weee!

this should be fun for my kid in the service...euro's hating him for being alive,hating him for being part of the armed services(you know...the other branch of the devil)

and god forbid...fighting people that behead innocents...oh my gosh....well at least someone has the balls to step up...europe wont..they just created the mess(isreal,africa,asia..)but we are the bad guys,never mind we dont behead people..i am thinking we should..but that would lower us to their level..the nobel insurgents...beheading people..lol
Teh_pantless_hero
26-06-2006, 15:46
What the fuck are you talking about?
Deep Kimchi
26-06-2006, 15:49
I believe we should just keep the naval patrols around Somalia (as we have had to stop pirates out of Mogadishu from attacking freighters and cruise ships).

Other than that, we should let them kill each other, and revert to the 10th century with AKs.
Eutrusca
26-06-2006, 15:58
Eut... I guess, since you can't show any common sense, that maybe the mods will have to have a nice little chat with you, since "Moslim" is a racially offensive term and the correct term is "Muslim".
Fine. Sue me. :p
Eutrusca
26-06-2006, 16:00
What the fuck are you talking about?
It's called reality. You wouldn't understand.
MrQuestion
26-06-2006, 16:03
Eut... I guess, since you can't show any common sense, that maybe the mods will have to have a nice little chat with you, since "Moslim" is a racially offensive term and the correct term is "Muslim".

You'll have to explain that.

Frankly, I think your just making it up. According to MW, moslem is just a variant of muslim and there is no annotation indicating that it is offensive.

Nor can I see how it could be.
Yootopia
26-06-2006, 16:03
What's this?

America bribes the wrong warlords again, leading to worldwide crisis?

Hmm... now where has that happened before?
Yootopia
26-06-2006, 16:06
Eut... I guess, since you can't show any common sense, that maybe the mods will have to have a nice little chat with you, since "Moslim" is a racially offensive term and the correct term is "Muslim".
Moslim and Moslem are actually localised terms for Muslim, the spelling just reflects the accenting. This is why HAMAS uses the term Moslem, whereas the Saudis use the term Muslim.

It'd be the same word in Arabic.

Much like if you tried to spell 'tomato' in Arabic. The US says one thing, the UK says another, and since it's a foreign language, you try and spell it as best you can with your own alphabet.
MC Wedge
26-06-2006, 16:08
The editor's note is sooo not contradictory. :rolleyes:


like ok hes right add me 2 ur list of interestin countries:fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :) :)
Secret aj man
26-06-2006, 16:10
I believe we should just keep the naval patrols around Somalia (as we have had to stop pirates out of Mogadishu from attacking freighters and cruise ships).

Other than that, we should let them kill each other, and revert to the 10th century with AKs.

works for me...

to bad bosnia wasnt bordered by water...

we could have helped them also.

the glorious communists armed them...so let them die by their own hands,,,,my friend died there trying to help them..i feel very badly for the somalies.
my heart truly goes out to the women that is hunkered down in her hut..while the bullets fly...but lest we forget...blame the u.s.?
Khadgar
26-06-2006, 16:10
Mogadishu =/= Somalia

Just because Abu Mohammad al abdu Mohammad allah islam rules Mogadishu does not mean he's in control of the country, no one is.
Yootopia
26-06-2006, 16:10
COMMENTARY: Another hotbed of terrorism in the works here, or just another warlord? God help Africa!
We've already sent them Bibles and they can't eat those.

Maybe "The whole world - help Africa!"
BogMarsh
26-06-2006, 16:11
Moslim and Moslem are actually localised terms for Muslim, the spelling just reflects the accenting. This is why HAMAS uses the term Moslem, whereas the Saudis use the term Muslim.

It'd be the same word in Arabic.

Much like if you tried to spell 'tomato' in Arabic. The US says one thing, the UK says another, and since it's a foreign language, you try and spell it as best you can with your own alphabet.


Fine, whatever, erm... can we just kill 'em anyway? Without spellchecks.

Hamas and that wacko in Somalia. Not moslems in general.
MC Wedge
26-06-2006, 16:11
[QUOTE=Eutrusca]It's called reality. You wouldn't understand.[/Q

its called ur a geek, and u no wat i mean lol jk dw but first quotes rite
Teh_pantless_hero
26-06-2006, 16:12
It's called reality. You wouldn't understand.
I'm sorry, I wasn't talking to your biased, hypocritical self.
BogMarsh
26-06-2006, 16:13
I'm sorry, I wasn't talking to your biased, hypocritical self.

So shaddap, oh friendless one.
Iztatepopotla
26-06-2006, 16:16
Mogadishu =/= Somalia

Just because Abu Mohammad al abdu Mohammad allah islam rules Mogadishu does not mean he's in control of the country, no one is.
These guys very nearly are. Only a few pockets of resistance from the previous warlord left in the south. The north has pretty much its own governments, it remains to be seen what they'll do about that when the situation in the south is resolved.
Teh_pantless_hero
26-06-2006, 16:17
So shaddap, oh friendless one.
I don't need hypocritical racists for friends.
Whittlesfield
26-06-2006, 16:18
its called ur a geek, and u no wat i mean lol jk dw but first quotes rite
Dear: MC Wedge

[X] Clueless n00b
[_] Lamer
[_] Flamer
[_] Pervert
[_] Sexist
[_] Spammer
[_] Racist
[X] Idiot
[X] Dumbass
[_] Troller
[_] "Expert"
[_] Wannabe
[X] Waste of Life
[_] Other:
[_] All of the above

You are being told off because:

[X] You made an "Off-Topic" post.
[X] You obviously don't know anything about the topic at hand.
[X] You started a pointless thread.
[_] You bumped a pointless thread.
[X] Your post contained nothing but crap.
[X] You can't spell more than 3 words right.
[_] Your awful markup made the post unreadable.
[X] You made a useless assumption.
[_] You posted ALL IN CAPS FOR NO APPARENT REASON.
[_] YoU tYpEd SoMeThInG lAmE lIkE tHiS.
[_] You say you're "1337".
[_] You posted a topic that's been posted 23 times already.
[_] You're posting something illegal and will be banned anyway.
[_] You're asking for something illegal.

To repent, you must:

[X] Refrain from posting until you have a vague idea what you're doing.
[_] Stab yourself in the eye with a pen.
[_] Give up your internet account.
[_] Eat paint chips for the next 6 months.
[_] Tell your mommy to up your medication.
[_] Jump into a bathtub with a toaster (plugged in of course!).
[X] Actually post something relevant.
[X] Read and memorize the rules.
[_] Leave these boards forever.
[_] Print your home phone number.
[X] Simply shut up.

In Closing, I'd Like to Say:

[_] Blow me
[_] Get a life
[_] Never post again
[_] I pity your dog
[_] Your IQ must be 7
[_] Take your rejection somewhere else
[_] STHU & GTHO
[X] Learn to post
[_] Go jump into some industrial equipment
[_] All of the above
BogMarsh
26-06-2006, 16:19
I don't need hypocritical racists for friends.


You mean, you don't have friends at all.
And you don't need 'em.
And you wont get 'em.
Eutrusca
26-06-2006, 16:19
I'm sorry, I wasn't talking to your biased, hypocritical self.
LMAO! Like I give a shit? :p
Deep Kimchi
26-06-2006, 16:19
I don't need hypocritical racists for friends.
Calling someone who doesn't think that militant Islam is a good idea, and who doesn't think that people who believe in militant Islam are safe to be around isn't racist.

Militant Islam is not a race. It's an idea. Just like being Republican or Democrat or Socialist or Communist is an idea.

I've noticed that when you don't have any rational arguments, you immediately call people racists, even when the term makes no sense whatsoever.
Whittlesfield
26-06-2006, 16:21
Teh_pantless_hero, BogMarsh and Eutrusca, can't you keep this to TGs?
Eutrusca
26-06-2006, 16:21
Calling someone who doesn't think that militant Islam is a good idea, and who doesn't think that people who believe in militant Islam are safe to be around isn't racist.

Militant Islam is not a race. It's an idea. Just like being Republican or Democrat or Socialist or Communist is an idea.

I've noticed that when you don't have any rational arguments, you immediately call people racists, even when the term makes no sense whatsoever.
Heh! He was neglected as a child. Ignore him. :D
Teh_pantless_hero
26-06-2006, 16:22
Calling someone who doesn't think that militant Islam is a good idea, and who doesn't think that people who believe in militant Islam are safe to be around isn't racist.
You obviously missed my first post and the irony of what I quoted.
Deep Kimchi
26-06-2006, 16:22
BogMarsh and Eutrusca, can't you keep this to TGs?
In a world where other posters' first response to virtually anything is "you're a racist"?
Yootopia
26-06-2006, 16:25
So shaddap, oh friendless one.
I like Teh Pantless Hero...
Teh_pantless_hero
26-06-2006, 16:25
In a world where other posters' first response to virtually anything is "you're a racist"?
Maybe you should read the thread before making asinine accusations.
Whittlesfield
26-06-2006, 16:25
Well needless insults coming from both sides of the argument should be kept to TGs to stop the cluttering of an interesting debate.
Whittlesfield
26-06-2006, 16:26
Teh_pantless_hero, BogMarsh and Eutrusca, can't you keep this to TGs?
Unfortunately Deep Kimchi missed the addition to the post: Teh_pantless_hero
BogMarsh
26-06-2006, 16:26
I like Teh Pantless Hero...

*nods*
So do I. I love myrth, and am ever amused by his comedy-value.

*grins and fluffles Yootopia*
Yootopia
26-06-2006, 16:29
Well needless insults coming from both sides of the argument should be kept to TGs to stop the cluttering of an interesting debate.
Mmmm yes, or maybe you can stop trying to be a moderator with 7 posts who gets this extremely off-topic and uses a nerdy auto-flamer thingy.
Whittlesfield
26-06-2006, 16:31
I'm not trying to be a moderator only stating the obvious. Sure, I've got 9 posts, but posts don't correlate to IQ, or maturity.
Deep Kimchi
26-06-2006, 16:33
Maybe you should read the thread before making asinine accusations.
Maybe I've noticed that you resort to "racist" in my threads pretty quickly, too, when it isn't applicable.
Teh_pantless_hero
26-06-2006, 16:35
Maybe I've noticed that you resort to "racist" in my threads pretty quickly, too, when it isn't applicable.
I guess I can't expect any more than uninformed leaps to conclusions with you. Try not to fall down the pit of logic you are trying to jump across.

And what's more, my second post in this thread only said Eutrusca was biased and hypocritical.
Deep Kimchi
26-06-2006, 16:37
I guess I can't expect any more than uninformed leaps to conclusions with you. Try not to fall down the pit of logic you are trying to jump across.

Explain how attacking an idea (militant Islam) is racist.

When you're done, your argument should be able to support any ideology we put in the brackets there (Republican, Democrat, Atheist, Socialist, Christian, Muslim, Communist).
Whittlesfield
26-06-2006, 16:40
Trying to get us vaguely back on topic, what do you lot think the chances are of Somaliland being recognised by the UN and other countries as an independant country?
Yootopia
26-06-2006, 16:40
Trying to get us vaguely back on topic, what do you lot think the chances are of Somaliland being recognised by the UN and other countries as an independant country?
Zero, and it'll be taken over by the new government anyway, methinks.
Whittlesfield
26-06-2006, 16:45
Are you sure? Its got quite a lot of control over its lands, and the local militia would be opposed to a take over.
Its only got recognition from Ethiopia so far.
Teh_pantless_hero
26-06-2006, 16:50
Explain how attacking an idea (militant Islam) is racist.

When you're done, your argument should be able to support any ideology we put in the brackets there (Republican, Democrat, Atheist, Socialist, Christian, Muslim, Communist).
I could explain or I could run around in circles, both would get the same reaction from you.
Yootopia
26-06-2006, 16:51
Are you sure? Its got quite a lot of control over its lands, and the local militia would be opposed to a take over.
Its only got recognition from Ethiopia so far.
The local militia vs. a group comparible in size and strength to the Taleban?

No chance.
Whittlesfield
26-06-2006, 16:52
The Military of Somaliland personnel is largely composed of three groups:

1. The former Somaliland National Movement (SNM) guerilla fighters who opposed to former dictator Siad Barre's rule.
2. Militia from communities who themselves opposed the SNM.
3. Individuals who served in the former dictator's army but did not serve inside Somaliland.

The military together with the police get the biggest share of the national budget. Although the United Nations provides assistance towards police force, the Somaliland Military does not get any kind of support, military or otherwise. Their equipment is aging and is composed of the armaments left behind by the fleeing military of the former dictator.

Some military facilities were bought during Egal's administration to assist the military's usual duties and the necessary movements.
Hmm, maybe with UN assistance they could stay independant.
Yootopia
26-06-2006, 16:53
Hmm, maybe with UN assistance they could stay independant.
Only if UN assistance was something like the whole of the Swedish Army or something.
Whittlesfield
26-06-2006, 16:58
But Somaliland is much more organised and advanced than the rest of Somalia. Numbers might help, but they don't always win battles.
Greyenivol Colony
26-06-2006, 17:09
Somalia is a phoenix. It existed for many years as a post-Colonial state - but such states in Africa are fundamentally weak because they do not comply with the native political culture.

Somalia with arise from its own ashes as a new, and authentically African nation, we are already seeing this is the North.

The Islamic Courts Union are a threat to this - sure. But I don't hold the opinion that they will go on to take control of all Somalia. They are already beginning to lose popular support, the most important commodity in a stateless nation, due to the enactment of many of their beliefs, (for example, they banned public broadcasts of the World Cup in Mogadishu... not a good idea).

The ICU will collapse eventually, and there will be a renewed vigour in Phoenix Somalia.
RLI Returned
26-06-2006, 17:12
In recent years, the United States backed a covert program to pay Mogadishu's warlords for their assistance in tracking down those in Somalia with links to terrorism.

That policy backfired, however, when Islamists banded together earlier this year and took on the American-backed warlords, ousting them from the capital. In an effort to recover, American officials have in recent weeks lent their support to Somalia's transitional government, which had only lukewarm backing from Washington before.

Is it too much to hope that the US government will one day realise that backing oppressive regimes/warlords really is counterproductive in the long run? If they could do it before the policy triggers a world war it'd be nice.
DesignatedMarksman
26-06-2006, 17:22
Let's invade Somalia. Again.


Drop a MEU off the coast and let them go to work.