NationStates Jolt Archive

What if instead of the U.S. taking the allies side during W.W.II it had a different president that allied itself with Japan and Nazi Germany. Possibly having invasions of Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and Great Britain.

*snickers a bit about choice of OP's nation name, scurries along, leaving thread for those who like alternate history speculation*

I can't see the US siding with a country who had attacked them on their own territory. Although its likely they would have been happy to only fight the Japanese if Hitler hadn't declared war on the USA which he did to support Japan.

What if instead of the U.S. taking the allies side during W.W.II it had a different president that allied itself with Japan and Nazi Germany. Possibly having invasions of Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and Great Britain.

America wudda hung the frakkin qiizzlin.

It would depend if they just fought on nazi Germany's side, or if they where actually part of nazi germany.

America wudda hung the frakkin qiizzlin.

Hardly. The US has been allied with the Taliban, Saddam, Pinochet, Noriega, Saudi Arabia, and other less savoury or "nice" people and countries before, and no US president was hanged over that.

Hardly. The US has been allied with the Taliban, Saddam, Pinochet, Noriega, Saudi Arabia, and other less savoury or "nice" people and countries before, and no US president was hanged over that.
I think he means the US would pWn.. maybe

Wouldn't have happened. America was too opposed because their citizens kept on being sunk by Nazi submarines.

Liasia']I think he means the US would pWn.. maybe

"Quisling" is an originally Norwegian word that means "traitor," and is in his post referring to the president that would ally himself with with Japan and Nazi Germany.

"Quisling" is an originally Norwegian word that means "traitor," and is in his post referring to the president that would ally himself with with Japan and Nazi Germany.
Oooooo, thanks:fluffle:

Hardly. The US has been allied with the Taliban, Saddam, Pinochet, Noriega, Saudi Arabia, and other less savoury or "nice" people and countries before, and no US president was hanged over that.

Some of those are bad examples because they are from countries that are situated over American oil reserves.

Some of those are bad examples because they are from countries that are situated over American oil reserves.

You owe me a new flat panel screen.

You owe me a new flat panel screen.

Did you break it with a fist, or just puke on it?

Some of those are bad examples because they are from countries that are situated over American oil reserves.
hahaha

The US didn't have to join the war for it to go very differently. Just by not helping Britain get supplies through the German blockade and by selling oil to Japan, that would have been enough.

Did you break it with a fist, or just puke on it?

Are we straying from the topic?

Did you break it with a fist, or just puke on it?

Nothing so illustrious, mon vieux. I just squirted wine all over it.

The US could have not used nuclear missiles, possibly changing the events that lead to the Cold War.

The US could have not used nuclear missiles, possibly changing the events that lead to the Cold War.
Why not? Nuclear bomb+Toronto= KABOOM! Although i guess they woudln't have had all the scientists they stole from Germany and thier expertise.

It would never have gone that way...America was a very isolationist country back then, and the only thing that brought us out of it was the attack on Pearl Harbor...Nothing except an attack by the Allies on our turf would've snapped that isolationist sentiment and made us support Germany, and the Allies would have no reason to attack us. Ergo, impossible.

Why don't you come up with some alt-hist that's actually plausible?

Well i'm saying that before any war began with nazi germany or japan they allied and gave them economic support. Something i've done in Hearts of Iron 2

It would depend if they just fought on nazi Germany's side, or if they where actually part of nazi germany.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/1892_Pledge_of_Allegiance2.jpg
Whatever do you mean?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/1892_Pledge_of_Allegiance2.jpg
Whatever do you mean?
:rolleyes: Nice PhotoShop.

Got any of Bush eating a live baby harp-seal?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/1892_Pledge_of_Allegiance2.jpg
Whatever do you mean?
I always thought the pledge of allegiance is a bit creepy.. don't do anything equivalent over here in the uk.

What if instead of the U.S. taking the allies side during W.W.II it had a different president that allied itself with Japan and Nazi Germany. Possibly having invasions of Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and Great Britain.

SVEEEEEEEEEEEEEERIGE!

UK would sue for peace. Germany cuts Japan loose. Russia gets buried in a sea of US manufactured German engeineered tanks. Japan gets stomped by a US that didn't have support a second front so no a-bomb. The world may have never learned of the Holocaust.


What if instead of the U.S. taking the allies side during W.W.II it had a different president that allied itself with Japan and Nazi Germany. Possibly having invasions of Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and Great Britain.

SVEEEEEEEEEEEEEERIGE!

För sent, jag fnissade redan.

It would have switched sides swiftly to prevent the loss of its interests in Asia and Nazi domination of Europe.

:rolleyes: Nice PhotoShop.

It's not photshopped. They used to salute the flag during the pledge of allegiance that way, until Hitler gave the salute a bad name. Same thing that happened to the swastika.

It's not photshopped. They used to salute the flag during the pledge of allegiance that way, until Hitler gave the salute a bad name. Same thing that happened to the swastika.
What they said.

Check the link, it's wikipedia for whatever that's worth. Have a look at the Eugenics in America stuff for a hoot.

PS The Japs got hoofed into concentration camps pretty quickly once WWII got under way. I don't know if they had any badges or tattoo stuff.

What they said.

Check the link, it's wikipedia for whatever that's worth. Have a look at the Eugenics in America stuff for a hoot.

PS The Japs got hoofed into concentration camps pretty quickly once WWII got under way. I don't know if they had any badges or tattoo stuff.
We stopped doing that shit a long time ago. The only reason you people bring it up these days is for political point-scoring.

Just for shits and giggles i thought id ask what people think of America's use of biological research gained from Japanese and German scientists after the war? Bearing in mind the research was done on unwilling chinese and holocaust victims. Seems a tad hypocritical to me.. but meh.

Hittler would have won with the state-of-the-art equipment being designed in germany and the industral power of the US and raw materials we would have slautered the whole world easy. Also since we and germany had the best minds building the A-bomb we would have discovered it right in the beginning of the war I think.

That of course if we wern't isolationists, and still hated UK and if the japs didn't attack us.

We stopped doing that shit a long time ago. The only reason you people bring it up these days is for political point-scoring.
Calm down this is a hypothetical isn't it. Like that Philip K. Dick book, whatsit, The Man in the High Castle although I think it has another name. Also check http://www.cambridge.org/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=0521847060&ss=ind out.

Jeez, touchy yanquees, oy!

Liasia']Just for shits and giggles i thought id ask what people think of America's use of biological research gained from Japanese and German scientists after the war? Bearing in mind the research was done on unwilling chinese and holocaust victims. Seems a tad hypocritical to me.. but meh.

Not fully clear on what you mean. Do you mean, as I think you do, that America used data gathered from Nazi/Japanese biological research done on humans? Because I don't see a problem with it. Once the data is available, no sane government would ignore or destroy it just because the means of doing said research was unethical. Personally, if I had been given the call, I would have done the same. Not that I support the manner in which the research was done, but I have no problem with using the data after the fact.

If you mean that America did research on unwilling Chinese and Holocaust victims... I'd like to see a source.

Edit: The interned Japanese-Americans weren't tattooed or forced to wear a rising sun badge, etc. At least, my grandfather wasn't. They weren't treated terribly well, and it was a travesty. But it had nothing on the holocaust. So yes, when you compare my country to Nazi Germany, I do get a little touchy. Wouldn't you?

What the US really should've done was delay intervention long enough to let the Nazis defeat the USSR...or even send the USN to shell Vladivostock and possibly land troops to take over the eastern half of the communist scum.

I maintain it was history's greatest mistake for US Presidents to stop Paton from enlisting the well trained Germans to head east to Moscow, as well as stopping MacArthur from liberating Nth Korea then turning his sights to Peking.

Calm down this is a hypothetical isn't it. Like that Philip K. Dick book, whatsit, The Man in the High Castle although I think it has another name. Also check http://www.cambridge.org/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=0521847060&ss=ind out.

Jeez, touchy yanquees, oy!
Don't play dumb. You liberals like to compare the US to Nazi Germany all the fucking time, so don't act like you were'nt just trying to.

What if someone woke up with an avocado tree growing out his ass? Could he get rich by shitting guacamole and selling it to Taco Bell?

Wow, why not start an new thread and include a poll?

Not fully clear on what you mean. Do you mean, as I think you do, that America used data gathered from Nazi/Japanese biological research done on humans? Because I don't see a problem with it. Once the data is available, no sane government would ignore or destroy it just because the means of doing said research was unethical. Personally, if I had been given the call, I would have done the same. Not that I support the manner in which the research was done, but I have no problem with using the data after the fact.

If you mean that America did research on unwilling Chinese and Holocaust victims... I'd like to see a source.

Edit: The interned Japanese-Americans weren't tattooed or forced to wear a rising sun badge, etc. At least, my grandfather wasn't. They weren't treated terribly well, and it was a travesty. But it had nothing on the holocaust. So yes, when you compare my country to Nazi Germany, I do get a little touchy. Wouldn't you?
That wasn't me dude.
To use the data and then condemn the gathering of it is sooo hypocritical, and the actual use of the self-same scientists by the US and other countries when they had proved themselves capable of such horiffic things is just sick. The moral high ground america tries to claim makes me sick.

Don't play dumb. You liberals like to compare the US to Nazi Germany all the fucking time, so don't act like you were'nt just trying to.

It's your failure of intellect is the problem around here.

Liasia']That wasn't me dude.
To use the data and then condemn the gathering of it is sooo hypocritical,
If the most evil scientist in the world somehow found the cure for cancer (or AIDS), and we were done defeating him in his HQ, would you destroy the research because it'd be "hypocritical" to use it?
Liasia']
The moral high ground america tries to claim makes me sick.
Why? We're certainly more moral than the majority of the governments on the planet.

It's your failure of intellect is the problem around here.
Oh, such a comeback. u r 1337 haxx0r.

What's next, are you going to call me a "poopiehead"?

Don't play dumb. You liberals like to compare the US to Nazi Germany all the fucking time, so don't act like you were'nt just trying to.

Was it the schoolkids saluting the US flag, or the internment of the Japanese that tipped you off to the Nazi thing? This thread unless I'm wildly mistaken is about a possible world branched off from our own some sixty to seventy years ago.

If you cannot grasp the notion of context, then I say that is a failure of intellect.

America wudda hung the frakkin qiizzlin.

i don't think any one knows exactly what u are saying

Liasia']That wasn't me dude.
To use the data and then condemn the gathering of it is sooo hypocritical, and the actual use of the self-same scientists by the US and other countries when they had proved themselves capable of such horiffic things is just sick. The moral high ground america tries to claim makes me sick.

The first part was you, the second wasn't. I forgot to include the applicable quote.

It's hardly 'sick', it's reasonable. To say that we are going to ignore legitimate scientific information because the manner in which it was gathered by others is distasteful is unneccessarily self limiting. The actions of the scientists were deplorable, but the information is solid.

It was possible that the information could be used to save people's lives in the future, although from your stance on it I presume that this turned out not to be the case. But what if it was? What if, buried in the work done by these people, was the cure for, say, cancer? The people who used the information had no way of knowing. Who are we to condemn them after the fact?

Take nuclear technology, yes? It drives ships, powers cities all across the US, Britain, France, Germany and elsewhere. It has contributed to medical science in the form of specific machines that allow us to view the interior of the body. But when the bomb was first tested, it caused radiation sickness in a large number of people. Do you then say, in the light that people were poisoned, that nuclear power is wrong, evil and omgihateamerica:P?

Was it the schoolkids saluting the US flag, or the internment of the Japanese that tipped you off to the Nazi thing? This thread unless I'm wildly mistaken is about a possible world branched off from our own some sixty to seventy years ago.
A very implausible world, yes.

If you cannot grasp the notion of context, then I say that is a failure of intellect.
Oh, please. You liberals are allways calling us "Nazis" one way or another. Stop trying to weasel out of your reputation.

Why, we'd all be in Nazi uniform today, saluting Der Fuhrer, the Emperor, and whatever popped up in the US. ^^

You liberals are allways calling us "Nazis" one way or another. Stop trying to weasel out of your reputation.

I'm a liberal...and an American. To me they are one and the same since this country was founded and made great by liberal ideas.

However, this thread is asinine. The best response?

What if someone woke up with an avocado tree growing out his ass? Could he get rich by shitting guacamole and selling it to Taco Bell?

Wow, why not start an new thread and include a poll?

If the US wouldnt have helped the allies, and instead Helped the axis powers, than the war would have been won easily from the begining, the US funneled billions of dollars and equipment to the allies before the US entered the war. so I guess Germany would have had an easier time beating the allies. But Hitler always considered the US to be the greatest threat to a Nazi controlled Europe, so that would never have happened.

Seeing as minoko won't let it lie let's do this one then.

The Europeans join with Hitler. He proposes a reassertion of the Dominions of the European powers. Recent fuzzy thinking and decadent attitudes having led to such effete concepts as collectivism and co-operative socialist primitivism taking root. A new globalised Super Friends League!

Made up of the great powers of Europe, revitalised by the treasures of the untermensch. Industry fueled by production and demand from the colonies. A trickle down approach to wealth means the European Powers merely get first bite at any pie. The crumbs will trickle down to the colonies and all will benefit.

Funnily enough this didn't happen and in fact a fuckload of Europeans gave their lives so that generations later a bunch of yanquees aren't all speaking German.
Being European we don't like to go on about it though.

:rolleyes: Nice PhotoShop.

Got any of Bush eating a live baby harp-seal?
That's not photosphop, that's the old U.S. way to pledge Allegiance.

What the US really should've done was delay intervention long enough to let the Nazis defeat the USSR...or even send the USN to shell Vladivostock and possibly land troops to take over the eastern half of the communist scum.

I maintain it was history's greatest mistake for US Presidents to stop Paton from enlisting the well trained Germans to head east to Moscow, as well as stopping MacArthur from liberating Nth Korea then turning his sights to Peking.
They both would have lost. And the Cold War would have turned hot and Stalin would have prevailed with his retarded version of Totalitarian Communism.

Yeah, greatest mistake my ass.

It's hard to imagine the US actually 'siding' with the Axis powers during WWII. I think the most likely scenario would have been if the US had decided not only to be isolationist, but to not be squeamish about who they sold crude oil to, etc.

If the Americans had decided to sell the resources to the Japanese that the Japanese needed for their war machine, then Japan wouldn't have felt the need to strike first to eliminate the US as a potential enemy, thus giving the time they needed to secure the territories that they needed. In the Pacific, Japan would have dominated.

In Europe, Nazi Germany would still have lost to the Soviet Union. The USSR was the true 'victor' of that war if anyone was, and the Soviet advance west wouldn't have been stopped by an allied force; resulting in a communist Europe.

I believe the best and brightest of German scientists would have fled to the US, and you would end up in a world with three great powers; The US, The Empire of Japan, and The USSR. The US, not having built up a big war machine would not have expanded it's presence as much, so the 'super-powers', would be Japan and Russia.

Ideologically, and Economically, You would still have the Capitalism vs. Communism style cold war. Japan would be spending its time putting down communist insurrections in its Empire, and the US would continue to be isolationist.

It's hard to imagine the US actually 'siding' with the Axis powers during WWII. I think the most likely scenario would have been if the US had decided not only to be isolationist, but to not be squeamish about who they sold crude oil to, etc.

If the Americans had decided to sell the resources to the Japanese that the Japanese needed for their war machine, then Japan wouldn't have felt the need to strike first to eliminate the US as a potential enemy, thus giving the time they needed to secure the territories that they needed. In the Pacific, Japan would have dominated.

In Europe, Nazi Germany would still have lost to the Soviet Union. The USSR was the true 'victor' of that war if anyone was, and the Soviet advance west wouldn't have been stopped by an allied force; resulting in a communist Europe.

I believe the best and brightest of German scientists would have fled to the US, and you would end up in a world with three great powers; The US, The Empire of Japan, and The USSR. The US, not having built up a big war machine would not have expanded it's presence as much, so the 'super-powers', would be Japan and Russia.

Ideologically, and Economically, You would still have the Capitalism vs. Communism style cold war. Japan would be spending its time putting down communist insurrections in its Empire, and the US would continue to be isolationist.

In addition, with the Japanese conquest of China, communism would be almost exclusively represented by the USSR, as opposed to the USSR and China both being communist.

Perhaps replace the Cuban Missile Crisis with North Korean Missile Crisis or Taiwanese Missile Crisis? Let's face it, everybody was working on building nukes. And since the Russians would probably get to steal most of the German scientists, I'd say that they would probably get it, even if they weren't the first.

With the USSR in control of most of Europe, Afghanistan is suddenly no longer such a priority, and the USSR doesn't bankrupt itself. Result? The Cold War continues. Oh, no Berlin Wall either, as the USSR has both East and West Berlin.

In addition, with the Japanese conquest of China, communism would be almost exclusively represented by the USSR, as opposed to the USSR and China both being communist.

Perhaps replace the Cuban Missile Crisis with North Korean Missile Crisis or Taiwanese Missile Crisis? Let's face it, everybody was working on building nukes. And since the Russians would probably get to steal most of the German scientists, I'd say that they would probably get it, even if they weren't the first.

With the USSR in control of most of Europe, Afghanistan is suddenly no longer such a priority, and the USSR doesn't bankrupt itself. Result? The Cold War continues. Oh, no Berlin Wall either, as the USSR has both East and West Berlin.

The Great Wall of China becomes the new 'Iron Curtain'. The Cold War still exists, and the US, Japan and USSR all make their presence felt in the middle-east in the rush for oil, but the USSR and Japan have the biggest stake, since they have land armies actually IN Asia, whereas the US never built the massive war-time infrastructure that made it a counter-weight to the USSR.

In the long run, it's hard to say which of the two big imperialistic powers would crumble first, as they would both be expending huge resources just to hold on to foreign nations. Internal unrest would have to be put down through militancy, and if the US and western hemisphere were the only remaining areas of the world with freedom of the press, etc., it would be hard to imagine how long that might last... or would the rush to break free of totalitarianism break these powers anyway?

What if I were born Bill Gates and was the richest man on Earth?

What if I were born Bill Gates and was the richest man on Earth?

A) You'd be giving me lots of money.
B) You'd no longer be sexually attractive.

A) You'd be giving me lots of money.
B) You'd no longer be sexually attractive.

LMAO

During the 1930's America was just as vulnerable to Fascist takeover as any other state - indeed, if I recall I think there were a few near misses.

So assuming one of these near misses was a near hit and America becomes a Fascist country:

Its fascism is less extreme - the federal system allows for individual states not to perpetrate the atrocities suggested by the Federal government. However, if the USA uses similar propaganda methods to Nazi Germany it would not be too long before elections became fraudulent and dissent prohibited. America would probably not engage in any kind of genocide, but ethnic minorities will no doubt be hassled. Albert Einstein has fled to London instead, and worked on his theories there.

Fast forward: Hitler invades Czechoslovakia. No-one considers doing anything as America is Nazi Germany's ally. Hitler invades Poland, again, opposition seems like suicide. Hitler and Franco carve France between them. Britain is shitting itself, the populace is heavily armed and told to raise hell if the Reichsmarine turn up. It doesn't.

Meanwhile, much of the domains of the British Empire, especially Arabia and India have defected to the Nazis. Japan's advance into Asia is unopposed, Australia is invaded and subdued.

The only two countries not subservient to Berlin, Rome, Tokyo or Washington are Britain and the USSR. Britain, humiliated by the abandon of its Empire is susceptable to a Communist Revolution and it becomes a constituent republic of the Soviet Union.

There is a terrible peace in which the Second World War simply does not occur. The USSR and the fascist powers both begin developing nuclear weapons. The developement goes on for several decades. Then, some time in the '70s, simultaneous Nuclear warheads are launched from the Soviet Union at Tokyo, Berlin, Rome and Los Angeles. The Fascists retaliate. Everyone loses.

well by ww2 I dont believe the US would've ever sided with the Nazis, however at the outset of world war one, there was a strong sentiment to join with Imperial Germany rather than England and France, Now that would've really changed things.

well by ww2 I dont believe the US would've ever sided with the Nazis, however at the outset of world war one, there was a strong sentiment to join with Imperial Germany rather than England and France, Now that would've really changed things.

Indeed, that would have been interesting, and, I believe, would have probably led us to a fairer world today.