NationStates Jolt Archive

I've already accepted the fact that as long as I live in the Christian nation that is America, sex is evil and wrong.

However, I ask myself the question: Why do parents tell their children that "babies come from mommy's stomach"? Is it so hard to say "well honey/muffin/buttercup, there's a little place under mommy's stomach where babies grow." "What's that called, mommy?" "A womb."

Don't you agree that if we try not to cover toddlers from sex they won't be so curious and rebellious in later years? (Well, not that I really care, but it annoys to no ends how they say the things they do!) If you feel so bad about telling your kid what happened, then why I so humbly ask, did you partake in the very event?

Excuse my polite rant.

Not sure about rebellious, but I totally agree with you. If a kid asks how babies are made, you tell them. If you don't want to tell them about sex you don't have to, but you don't have to tell them a pile of crap.

Not everyone participates in the cover up, sorry. My parents were open with me, answering my questions according to my ability to comprehend, and I was open with my children in the same way. We don't have the Christian attitude towards sex and reproduction, but neither do we devalue it.

Glad to see not EVERYONE was thrown by this....issue. My parents avoided the topic. But I fully intend to answer any questions to any children I may have. Honesty really is the best policy.

Glad to see not EVERYONE was thrown by this....issue. My parents avoided the topic. But I fully intend to answer any questions to any children I may have. Honesty really is the best policy.

Indeed. I think most parents would be surprised by the decision making capability of their children were they to simply expect it of them instead of avoiding subjects or telling their children what they are to do/think...

I've already accepted the fact that as long as I live in the Christian nation that is America, sex is evil and wrong.

However, I ask myself the question: Why do parents tell their children that "babies come from mommy's stomach"? Is it so hard to say "well honey/muffin/buttercup, there's a little place under mommy's stomach where babies grow." "What's that called, mommy?" "A womb."

Don't you agree that if we try not to cover toddlers from sex they won't be so curious and rebellious in later years? (Well, not that I really care, but it annoys to no ends how they say the things they do!) If you feel so bad about telling your kid what happened, then why I so humbly ask, did you partake in the very event?

Excuse my polite rant.
Perhaps that's one reason none of mine rebelled when they were younger. My ex and I always answered their questions truthfully and precisely. There were no "forbidden questions" at my home. We never gave them more information than they asked for, but we always fully answered their questions.

Indeed. I think most parents would be surprised by the decision making capability of their children were they to simply expect it of them instead of avoiding subjects or telling their children what they are to do/think...
I was raised until age 12 by my grandparents. My grandmother, God bless her soul, once caught me "comparing notes" with the little girl across the street. She told me that it would fall off if I did that! LMAO! Fortunately, I was logical enough to figure out that, if that were true, there wouldn't be any humans running around. :D

What is this "sex" you speak of?

I was raised until age 12 by my grandparents. My grandmother, God bless her soul, once caught me "comparing notes" with the little girl across the street. She told me that it would fall off if I did that! LMAO! Fortunately, I was logical enough to figure out that, if that were true, there wouldn't be any humans running around. :D

Why am I not surprised that you, of all the posters I know, would've been caught at age 12 with the girl across the street?

lol

What is this "sex" you speak of?

Well, when a man and a woman love each other VERY much....

But seriously, I feel the same way about alcohol (yeah, I might catch some fire for that.) If we took a more relaxed approach towards alcohol as something to be enjoyed and NOT to get hammered, we might be in better shape. Naturally, there would still need to be an age limit, but ya know...

Well, when a man and a woman love each other VERY much....

But seriously, I feel the same way about alcohol (yeah, I might catch some fire for that.) If we took a more relaxed approach towards alcohol as something to be enjoyed and NOT to get hammered, we might be in better shape. Naturally, there would still need to be an age limit, but ya know...

What's the age limit in Europe? Do they have the same drinking problems the US does?

I personally don't remember ever hearing anything about where babies come from from my parents. I just knew they came from inside my mom, because that's where my sisters came out of. Didn't really bother with the issue.

I thought the stork brought them!

I thought the stork brought them!

But how does the stork know when your dad fucked your mom? :confused:

But how does the stork know when your dad fucked your mom? :confused:
He's got camera's in everyone's bedrooms...

He's got camera's in everyone's bedrooms...

Ooooh...I'll have to remember to put on a show for him next time I'm in the bedroom...

But how does the stork know when your dad fucked your mom? :confused:

He (she?) puts them under the cabbages in the local cabbage patch until he does. Thats why population is decreasing in some areas, no more cabbage patches.

He (she?) puts them under the cabbages in the local cabbage patch until he does. Thats why population is decreasing in some areas, no more cabbage patches.

Or maybe all the pesticides are killin off the babies before moms and dads can 'get it on'...

Everyone should eat organic, save the unborn babies!

What's the age limit in Europe? Do they have the same drinking problems the US does?

I live in America, but as I understand it, it's younger over there than here, (I'm pretty sure in some of them there is no age limit, but don't take that as fact). I have once watched an article of how some people binge drink daily in Europe, but I don't think it's as bad as over here.

I live in America, but as I understand it, it's younger over there than here, (I'm pretty sure in some of them there is no age limit, but don't take that as fact). I have once watched an article of how some people binge drink daily in Europe, but I don't think it's as bad as over here.
Please cite your source, Nothing I have ever seen backs up your binge drinking theory

fools

I've already accepted the fact that as long as I live in the Christian nation that is America, sex is evil and wrong.

However, I ask myself the question: Why do parents tell their children that "babies come from mommy's stomach"? Is it so hard to say "well honey/muffin/buttercup, there's a little place under mommy's stomach where babies grow." "What's that called, mommy?" "A womb."

Don't you agree that if we try not to cover toddlers from sex they won't be so curious and rebellious in later years? (Well, not that I really care, but it annoys to no ends how they say the things they do!) If you feel so bad about telling your kid what happened, then why I so humbly ask, did you partake in the very event?

Excuse my polite rant.

I've met atheist couples who won't say the proper words for sexual organs, and get flustered if their kid asks them what their sexual organs are for.

I've already accepted the fact that as long as I live in the Christian nation that is America, sex is evil and wrong.

However, I ask myself the question: Why do parents tell their children that "babies come from mommy's stomach"? Is it so hard to say "well honey/muffin/buttercup, there's a little place under mommy's stomach where babies grow." "What's that called, mommy?" "A womb."

Don't you agree that if we try not to cover toddlers from sex they won't be so curious and rebellious in later years? (Well, not that I really care, but it annoys to no ends how they say the things they do!) If you feel so bad about telling your kid what happened, then why I so humbly ask, did you partake in the very event?

Excuse my polite rant.

Christians do not consider all sex evil, we consider pre-marital and non-procreative sex (either the first alone, or both together, as in unmarried people having sex just for the orgasms,) quite immoral because that is not the purpose of sex, it is for procreation.

As to your first question, most parents do feel the need to coddle their young children. To number two, possibly, but most parents think that their kids will immediately go out and try it if they are told in the usual stage of constant questions and curiosity that small children have, which is when they usually ask about it.

Christians do not consider all sex evil, we consider pre-marital and non-procreative sex (either the first alone, or both together, as in unmarried people having sex just for the orgasms,) quite immoral because that is not the purpose of sex, it is for procreation.


If it's strictly for pro-creation, why does it feel good? There are lots of things we do on a daily basis that directly involve our survival that don't give anywhere near the same pleasure as sex. For instance: Eating. I mean, I know some people really enjoy to eat - I do. But I can't say I've ever heard of anyone - male or female - who orgasmed from food intake.

Christians do not consider all sex evil, we consider pre-marital and non-procreative sex (either the first alone, or both together, as in unmarried people having sex just for the orgasms,) quite immoral because that is not the purpose of sex, it is for procreation.

Most Christians in the US engage in recreational sex - that is, sex where procreation is not the aim of the exercise.

There is a minority who actually practice only procreative sex.

If it's strictly for pro-creation, why does it feel good? There are lots of things we do on a daily basis that directly involve our survival that don't give anywhere near the same pleasure as sex. For instance: Eating. I mean, I know some people really enjoy to eat - I do. But I can't say I've ever heard of anyone - male or female - who orgasmed from food intake.

They obviously haven't been eating the right kind of food.

They obviously haven't been eating the right kind of food.
LMAO...I guess not...

It's the need to protect children. That's all it is.

Sex ed was originally intended to enlighten the kids who had been coddled by their parents when it came to sex. But now, thanks to the Fundies in the state of North Carolina, it is state law to repeat the same BS.

SHAME ON YOU, NORTH CAROLINA! :upyours:

if they are old enough to ask the question, they are old enough to know the answer.

if you lie to your kids about something as simple as "where do babies come from?" they will never believe you about anything else.

I never did the whole "stork" thing that is popular here, and my kids have on occasion actually corrected adults about the "process" and got nothing but shocked looks.

A uterus is an organ just like your heart, and your intestines, it's nothing to hide, your genitals are body parts too, it's nothing bad or dirty, it's just skin....:p

Of course it doesn't really go over well during Sunday school when a kid says "mommy has a baby in her tummy" and my 3 year old says "you mean in her uterus, it's like the baby place, but not where it comes out, that's where it grows"

haha :D

It's nothing to do with protecting children, we just tell ourselves that to make us feel better. It's just we don't want that uncomfortable feeling as we try to explain to "little Jonny" how his penis works. Some might say it's a poor reflection on our attitudes towards sex.

Ok, so "we" doesn't actually mean everone, it's just a general covering we.

In relation to the drinking age, it's 18 in the UK, lower in some other parts of Europe, though I don't know the exact ages. It was always funny at Uni as the Americans could never take their alcohol and got drunk on about 3 pints.

This is my experience and in no way regards that all Americans get drunk so easily.

What is this "sex" you speak of?

Wait...I get it. There's a connection between sex and babies...ooooooh.

I think it's clear that there isn't a simple answer to whether or not parents are open with their children regarding sex, but I'll be honest with you. There are children who know more about sex than their parents do.

One member of my poly group asked his parents when he was little (probably around seven or so) about sex and they gave him a book that was about two inches thick -- adult reading, but he was already reading at a high-school level about then. Some of the stuff he read caused him to ask other questions and his parents were perplexed about it. Neither had, apparantly, read that book, much less anthing more advanced (and the book was pretty comprehensive and very-well illustrated). At the age of seven he was more educated about sex than either of his parents!

In short, there are several ways to find out about sex.

1. Parents or other legal guardians: Considering that many adults are full of misinformation about sex this might not be the best of situations. On the other hand, early sex education is important, at least in my perspective, as long as you're being given valid information. It will help a lot to aid children in discerning truth from fiction later on when they have access to other sources, such as the ones I list, below.

2. Books: This was one of my avenues. I spent a lot of time in the public library when I was living on the streets, and the section on sexuality wasn't, at that time, in the closed stacks. Depending upon your sources this might actually be the best way to get knowledge about sex. Of course, book learning, alone, doesn't really give you any skills, but that's another issue.

3. Sex education in the schools: I can't speak from experience because I never attended high school, but a couple of my friends had sex education at that level. They thought it was pretty cool, then. In retrospect, though, they're a bit disappointed. The courses were mostly about the physiology of reproduction and, of course, preached the dogma of abstinence without actually giving any details regarding how sex was "done". As with other approaches like this, most sex education programs completely ignore the fact that kids *will* experiment, regardless of the consequences. You can force abstinence down their throats all you want, but many are not going to abstain and you need to prepare them for the reality of sex -- not bury your head in the sand and pretend it's not going to happen.

4. Talking and "experimenting" with (or being "experimented" upon by) friends (or family, but we won't go there) or even total strangers -- in other words, the School of Hard Knocks: This is a veritable fountain of misinformation. One of my friends described a conversation he had with a school buddy (probably about fifth grade) in which his friend insisted that "if you leave it in too long you'll grow together"! On the other hand, getting some real "hands on experience" might be preferable to some of the red herrings you get fed by other routes. This comprised the bulk of my early sex education (from about age six), and I have mixed feelings about it. Some of it was valuable. Some of it was worthless. Some of it was pleasant. Some of it was very unpleasant. Bottom line -- probably not a healthy way to learn about sex.

5. Church: I have little (positive) to say about this. I know of one sex education program in a local church (at the Sunday School level), and from what I've heard it's basically a glossed-over, and in some cases, completely erroneous "education" with an unhealthy dose of Hell, Fire, and Brimstone thrown in for good measure.

6. Internet: This one is a mixed bag. Considering that websites, message boards, and other such resources are "fed" by the same people involved in the above five avenues for a sex education, that's probably not surprising. As with anything on the Internet, you have to learn to dig through the garbage to get to the treasure that's buried there.

7. Porn: I have only one thing to say, and this might surprise a lot of you. That's not "real" sex. :eek:

8. Self-exploration: We've all done it, right? How muich did you really learn? Not much, I'd imagine. Learning in a vacuum is pretty difficult, and, besides, you're getting a pretty one-sided and restricted perspective of what sex is.

Did I leave something out? Probably, but it's time to get on to another topic.

My parents never, actually told me. I just figured it out on my own.

Yay the internet.

Kids are getting desensitized earlier, and learning these things younger and younger. I was visiting my old elementary school when Summer Vacation started, you should hear how much the 5-6 year olds know 0.o

does anyone know someone who told their children something other than a childsized version of the truth?

The 5-6 year olds aren't "learning more and learning it earlier." They're just being more relaxed about it because their parents are more relaxed.

And anyways, I have a few stories to tell about Sex ed (in the state of NC, also "abstinence class").

5th grade: We had a little health class where we learned about puberty. I alredy knew most of it.

6th grade: We didn't learn it at all. When the health teacher was talking about the effects of crack (or some other drug) on women, up came the subject of... the clitoris. She didn't say it, but pulled all the girls off to the side afterward and told us we would learn about it in 7th and 8th grade. WE DIDN'T.

7th grade: The first of 3 abstinence classes (the other two were in 8th grade). Oh dear Jesus... it was, for lack of a better word, MORONIC. All they did was mention STD's, the used BARBIE DOLLS (no lie!) and then... oh God... they borught out this little throw pillow with crepe paper attached to it, and called it "Speedy the Sperm." I am not lying! :headbang:

8th grade: There were 2 classes, one in April and the other in May (of this year). I got sick and missed the one in April, but I had to go to the one in May. There was a lot of bogus in there, such as "Condoms NEVER work" and "1 out of 6 cases of HIV were spread even using condoms." Ah, and this little gem, "Dating started when teenagers first had access to cars." :headbang: :sniper: :headbang: :upyours:

Now I'm hoping they're not as stupid in 9th grade. :headbang:

If it's strictly for pro-creation, why does it feel good? There are lots of things we do on a daily basis that directly involve our survival that don't give anywhere near the same pleasure as sex. For instance: Eating. I mean, I know some people really enjoy to eat - I do. But I can't say I've ever heard of anyone - male or female - who orgasmed from food intake.


Mainly so people will actually do it, because if there was not an orgasm it would probably be about as looked forward to as a colonoscopy.

Most Christians in the US engage in recreational sex - that is, sex where procreation is not the aim of the exercise.

There is a minority who actually practice only procreative sex.

Yes but if they are married it is not so bad; I mentioned that in my origional post, I think. {but not in those words and you may have just missed it, I said "we consider pre-marital and non-procreative sex (either the first alone, or both together, as in unmarried people having sex just for the orgasms,) quite immoral because that is not the purpose of sex, it is for procreation." What I mean is that Pre-marital for procreation or pleasure is bad, with the latter worse, but post-marital sex for procreation or pleasure is acceptable, with the former more so.}

I've already accepted the fact that as long as I live in the Christian nation that is America, sex is evil and wrong.

I'd love to know what extreme Christian group, exactly, is responsible for creating the impression that Christians think sex is wrong. We don't, as far as I've ever heard, we just think it has a proper place, called marriage. And have you heard the "US isn't a Christian nation" speech yet?

I was raised until age 12 by my grandparents. My grandmother, God bless her soul, once caught me "comparing notes" with the little girl across the street. She told me that it would fall off if I did that! LMAO! Fortunately, I was logical enough to figure out that, if that were true, there wouldn't be any humans running around. :D

If your grandmother had told you you would turn to stone if you kept comairing notes with the girl, you would have beleived her. :eek:

I'd love to know what extreme Christian group, exactly, is responsible for creating the impression that Christians think sex is wrong. We don't, as far as I've ever heard, we just think it has a proper place, called marriage. And have you heard the "US isn't a Christian nation" speech yet?

Then why is homosexual marriage even an issue?

Well, when a man and a woman love each other VERY much....

But seriously, I feel the same way about alcohol (yeah, I might catch some fire for that.) If we took a more relaxed approach towards alcohol as something to be enjoyed and NOT to get hammered, we might be in better shape. Naturally, there would still need to be an age limit, but ya know...

The Spanish have a very open attitude toward alcohol. Their kids do partake in drinking wine with them, even in a bar. No big deal.

Mainly so people will actually do it, because if there was not an orgasm it would probably be about as looked forward to as a colonoscopy.



Yes but if they are married it is not so bad; I mentioned that in my origional post, I think. {but not in those words and you may have just missed it, I said "we consider pre-marital and non-procreative sex (either the first alone, or both together, as in unmarried people having sex just for the orgasms,) quite immoral because that is not the purpose of sex, it is for procreation." What I mean is that Pre-marital for procreation or pleasure is bad, with the latter worse, but post-marital sex for procreation or pleasure is acceptable, with the former more so.}

Sex is no more special an action than eating or using the restroom. It's a natural part of life. Why must we treat it as something more?

Then why is homosexual marriage even an issue?

Because there are Christians (and Muslims, and Jews, and people who just think it's weird) in the US, and we think it's a bad idea, on the whole. Whenever you have one part of a country that holds a different opinion than another part, it's going to be what you call an "issue", especially when at least one side thinks there's an absolute involved.

Christians do not consider all sex evil, we consider pre-marital and non-procreative sex (either the first alone, or both together, as in unmarried people having sex just for the orgasms,) quite immoral because that is not the purpose of sex, it is for procreation.

I presume you are speaking for yourself and not all Christians. Some do look at sex a necessary evil while others have no problem with non-procreative sex between married people.

Because there are Christians (and Muslims, and Jews, and people who just think it's weird) in the US, and we think it's a bad idea, on the whole. Whenever you have one part of a country that holds a different opinion than another part, it's going to be what you call an "issue", especially when at least one side thinks there's an absolute involved.

Excuse me, your ism is showing.

Excuse me, your ism is showing.

Hmm. Wow, I actually make it obvious that I consider myself a Christian. I didn't realize this was bad. :rolleyes:

:headbang:

Here have some asprin. With all that headbanging you need it.

Hmm. Wow, I actually make it obvious that I consider myself a Christian. I didn't realize this was bad. :rolleyes:

It goes far beyond that. Think about it a little longer.

I presume you are speaking for yourself and not all Christians. Some do look at sex a necessary evil while others have no problem with non-procreative sex between married people.

i could not agree more

i could not agree more

Why must it be within the bounds of a traditional marriage?

Some of us dont believe in marriage. Why are we wrong for then having sex? And would it be wrong if we were trying to procreate and were to take responsibility for that?

I've already accepted the fact that as long as I live in the Christian nation that is America, sex is evil and wrong.

However, I ask myself the question: Why do parents tell their children that "babies come from mommy's stomach"? Is it so hard to say "well honey/muffin/buttercup, there's a little place under mommy's stomach where babies grow." "What's that called, mommy?" "A womb."

Don't you agree that if we try not to cover toddlers from sex they won't be so curious and rebellious in later years? (Well, not that I really care, but it annoys to no ends how they say the things they do!) If you feel so bad about telling your kid what happened, then why I so humbly ask, did you partake in the very event?

Excuse my polite rant.

Well not all parents tell their children that. When I was pregnant with my son, my daughter had a lot of questions. I answered them in a way I thought she could understand(she was 5 then 7 now), plus I let her watch "A Baby Story" on Discovery Health where they actually show the birth and process leading up to delivery. Some people didnt agree with me letting her watch it, but my children, my choice.

Why am I not surprised that you, of all the posters I know, would've been caught at age 12 with the girl across the street?

lol
LMAO! Um ... I plead da fif' 'mendment! :D

LMAO! Um ... I plead da fif' 'mendment! :D
Was the 5th even around back then?

Here have some asprin. With all that headbanging you need it.

Thanks, Celt. With all these fundies around here, it's amazing that the local Food Lion doesn't carry a lot of aspirin and the nearest drugstore is 30 minutes away. :headbang:

EDIT: They don't carry contraceptives either. :eek: :headbang:

Was the 5th even around back then?
Hmmm. Should I or should I not?? Aw, what the hell.
http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/236/smileytroutsmack20cw.gif (http://imageshack.us)

It goes far beyond that. Think about it a little longer.

Having thought about it, I'm forced to conclude that someone thinks I'm homophobic. Or not?

And I have a question: so what if my "ism" is showing? It's not like I don't actually think that way.

Having thought about it, I'm forced to conclude that someone thinks I'm homophobic. Or not?

And I have a question: so what if my "ism" is showing? It's not like I don't actually think that way.
nevermind, I see now it was wasted on you. You fail to see the point I was making.

Why must it be within the bounds of a traditional marriage?

Some of us dont believe in marriage. Why are we wrong for then having sex? And would it be wrong if we were trying to procreate and were to take responsibility for that?

We were talking specificly about Christian attitudes about sex. I don't know of any Christians that beleive sex outside of marrage is OK, but then I don't know all Christians.

We were talking specificly about Christian attitudes about sex. I don't know of any Christians that beleive sex outside of marrage is OK, but then I don't know all Christians.

I know of a few, but, then again, I find it interesting to watch Christians amass wealth and new cars and such while professing to true belief in their God...

I know of a few, but, then again, I find it interesting to watch Christians amass wealth and new cars and such while professing to true belief in their God...

They got all that stuff because they gave generously to the church and God rewarded them. Did you sleep through that "the more you give, the more you get" sermon. Were you asleep when they passed around the dishpan instead of the collection plate? (dishpan is bigger...):D

They got all that stuff because they gave generously to the church and God rewarded them. Did you sleep through that "the more you give, the more you get" sermon. Were you asleep when they passed around the dishpan instead of the collection plate? (dishpan is bigger...):D

I could've sworn the bible says something about a camel through the eye of a needle and caring about those less well off?

Why must it be within the bounds of a traditional marriage?

Some of us dont believe in marriage. Why are we wrong for then having sex? And would it be wrong if we were trying to procreate and were to take responsibility for that?

ok, pardon if this is long wided and makes no sence..iam not very good at explaining things in writing... some of this is comming from my personal stand in christanity and some of it is teh tryditional stand so if you a christan and you dont agree iam ok with that....

let me say this, if you are not a christian I do not and will not hold you to the "christain standered."

Sex is ment to be keeped with in marrage, part of this is becauses it insure that STD's will not be a problum, if both partners are vergin when married and they dont have sex out side of that marrege STD's aren a problum. some of this is left over from historical times when there was no other was to prevent STD's. another reason for this is becaues Vergin brides were worth more, Guys wanted to marrie a virgin not some one what had slept with every man in the town.

as for not beileving in marrage, to be honist i dont know what to tell you, aside from thats a personal choice. there is biblical backing for staying celibit your whole life but iam assuming you mena not beeing married but still having sex- according to the bible this is wrong- personaly if your not a christian and you want to do that, go ahead i guess. Now for the procrative part, again it would be better to be married, but the bible says that if you are pregnat to get married, this would keep the child from being a basterd. but in to days socioty its not really that big of a deal any more.

nevermind, I see now it was wasted on you. You fail to see the point I was making.

Well, damn. I'm not doing very well at being intelligent right now, so would you mind explaining?

I could've sworn the bible says something about a camel through the eye of a needle and caring about those less well off?
every religion has its bad apples...though i do know several weathy people who are the main support for severaly small charities and an orphanage for aids kids in africa...i guess its the "bad" ones that givet eh res the bad reputation..its a steriotype thing:(

every religion has its bad apples...though i do know several weathy people who are the main support for severaly small charities and an orphanage for aids kids in africa...i guess its the "bad" ones that givet eh res the bad reputation..its a steriotype thing:(
You also have missed the point. If you truly feared your God, truly believed, then you would devote your entire life - every aspect of it - to serving that God.

What you have is the illusion of belief that allows you to live your life comfortably. It explains everything, gives everything a reason for being the way it is. But, hey, if it works for ya, power to ya. Just dont force your morality on me.

I am not a Christian. At one time, I was. I now consider myself a radical athiest. It's not that I simply dont believe in God, it's that I am convinced there is no god.

Why, then, should I be subject to the Christian views on morality? Why am I immoral for living my life according to my own moral values which just so happen to not equate to those of the Christian sector of the population?

There were no "forbidden questions" at my home. We never gave them more information than they asked for, but we always fully answered their questions.

So did they ever get round to asking you 'do you still beat your wife?'?

You also have missed the point. If you truly feared your God, truly believed, then you would devote your entire life - every aspect of it - to serving that God.

What you have is the illusion of belief that allows you to live your life comfortably. It explains everything, gives everything a reason for being the way it is. But, hey, if it works for ya, power to ya. Just dont force your morality on me.

I am not a Christian. At one time, I was. I now consider myself a radical athiest. It's not that I simply dont believe in God, it's that I am convinced there is no god.

Why, then, should I be subject to the Christian views on morality? Why am I immoral for living my life according to my own moral values which just so happen to not equate to those of the Christian sector of the population?
iam not trying to convert you nor am i trying to force my values on you, i would not do that and i dont want to eather, iam sorry if i came accross that way. personaly i dont hold none christian to my belief, its not fair to do that and its not right eather.

i find it interesting that you do not bileve in anything and yet you are trying to tell me about my faith...i belive that god calls cirten people to do cirtian things...some people are wealthy and others are not...there is a lot to understand about what he was saying about the eye of a neddle...look at you average celebrity, they are not only rich but hauty and stuck up... that is what he wasgetting at, not the weath it was the attitude

I can only hope that half the people posting here are posting opinions based on a lack of experience, because your suggestions are atrocious!

I do not believe in mythologising the reproductive process with storks or cabbage patches unless given as a glib, myrthful answer within the playful nature that comes when dealing with Children.

Not at all the same, but with some parallels, why do we tell our children about Santa Claus? We give them a bit of magic at Christmas time - something that brings them pleasure, but we also dispell the myth when the time has come for them to accept truth over myth. But we give them that bit of magic.

In that vein, we allow our children to watch magicians and give them the pleasure in beleiving in magic instead of saying the Hat has a false top or the hankeies are up his sleeve. Why despoil their delusions that bring them pleasure while they are young enough for it not to matter?

As I said - there are parallels (only!).

I don't think it's wise to give children notions of stalks and cabbage patches as a serious answer to a serious question, but neither is it necessary to rob your children of their innocence. Why should todllers know where babies come from? What use do they have for that information? Even if one was twisted enough to think it was ok for a child of a toddlers age to partake in sexual activities, the child is incapable of procreating.

What need is there for them to have that information at that time? Why not wait until it becomes poignient / necessary?

Surely, whether you have children or not, you MUST realise that telling young children about the sexual and reproductive processes, you hone their inquiry. Suddenly, where babies come from doesn't become nearly so interesting as to what sex is.

I know from the tone of this thread that there will be all too many who are willing to shoot me down and say that I would subject children to lies and maintain their ignorance, but it seems almost mind boggling to me that there are those of you who cannot see the point of view I am advocating.

We seem to live in an age where we don't value our childhood. We protect it with political correctness and we appear to insist on a sterile form of education and developmental regime designed to download human knowledge and a homogenous western world view into our children as quickly as possible. We don't value parents who give their time to their childrens development - to cultivating family and good values - the home makers etc. Family seems to have fallen from the Western cultural agenda, and we seem to have an expectation for our children to grow up as quickly as possible. Can we not be bothered to help our children enjoy a safe and innocent childhood? What has happenned to western culture? What's gone wrong?

Someone suggested that we tell our children lies about reproduction to avoid embarassment and uncomfortable situations. What nonsense. We live in an age of sexual liberation. While some seem to think this means anything goes, those others amongst us more capable of monitoring our morals and excercising self control, recognise that we can respect ourselves and maintain our dignity and not be ashamed about openly discussing matters sexual. In regard to my own daughter, I see no probalems in fielding her questions openly and honestly, but it HAS to be at the right time. Just because she can ask the question does not go to mean that she is ready to deal with the answer.

Please, I've never felt so lead to be judgemental of fellow posters on here as I do now, but please...grow up people! And please do it before you bring another life into the world!


Kin Wicked
Leader of the Wikaedian people.

I can only hope that half the people posting here are posting opinions based on a lack of experience, because your suggestions are atrocious!

I do not believe in mythologising the reproductive process with storks or cabbage patches unless given as a glib, myrthful answer within the playful nature that comes when dealing with Children.

Not at all the same, but with some parallels, why do we tell our children about Santa Claus? We give them a bit of magic at Christmas time - something that brings them pleasure, but we also dispell the myth when the time has come for them to accept truth over myth. But we give them that bit of magic.

In that vein, we allow our children to watch magicians and give them the pleasure in beleiving in magic instead of saying the Hat has a false top or the hankeies are up his sleeve. Why despoil their delusions that bring them pleasure while they are young enough for it not to matter?

As I said - there are parallels (only!).

I don't think it's wise to give children notions of stalks and cabbage patches as a serious answer to a serious question, but neither is it necessary to rob your children of their innocence. Why should todllers know where babies come from? What use do they have for that information? Even if one was twisted enough to think it was ok for a child of a toddlers age to partake in sexual activities, the child is incapable of procreating.

What need is there for them to have that information at that time? Why not wait until it becomes poignient / necessary?

Surely, whether you have children or not, you MUST realise that telling young children about the sexual and reproductive processes, you hone their inquiry. Suddenly, where babies come from doesn't become nearly so interesting as to what sex is.

I know from the tone of this thread that there will be all too many who are willing to shoot me down and say that I would subject children to lies and maintain their ignorance, but it seems almost mind boggling to me that there are those of you who cannot see the point of view I am advocating.

We seem to live in an age where we don't value our childhood. We protect it with political correctness and we appear to insist on a sterile form of education and developmental regime designed to download human knowledge and a homogenous western world view into our children as quickly as possible. We don't value parents who give their time to their childrens development - to cultivating family and good values - the home makers etc. Family seems to have fallen from the Western cultural agenda, and we seem to have an expectation for our children to grow up as quickly as possible. Can we not be bothered to help our children enjoy a safe and innocent childhood? What has happenned to western culture? What's gone wrong?

Someone suggested that we tell our children lies about reproduction to avoid embarassment and uncomfortable situations. What nonsense. We live in an age of sexual liberation. While some seem to think this means anything goes, those others amongst us more capable of monitoring our morals and excercising self control, recognise that we can respect ourselves and maintain our dignity and not be ashamed about openly discussing matters sexual. In regard to my own daughter, I see no probalems in fielding her questions openly and honestly, but it HAS to be at the right time. Just because she can ask the question does not go to mean that she is ready to deal with the answer.

Please, I've never felt so lead to be judgemental of fellow posters on here as I do now, but please...grow up people! And please do it before you bring another life into the world!


Kin Wicked
Leader of the Wikaedian people.
I fail to see how not telling children about the stork and instead telling them the basic truth negates a child's childhood. Again, I think children will surprise you if you give them a chance. I've seen 11 and 12 yr old kids acting more maturely and making more responsible decisions than the 18-25 yr old people I work with on a daily basis.

If you expect your children to make the right decision, more oft than not, they will. Perhaps at 5 a child cannot be trusted to make the right decision about sex, but then again, at 5 yrs old, a child should not be put into a position to have to make that decision.

Don't you agree that if we try not to cover toddlers from sex they won't be so curious and rebellious in later years? (Well, not that I really care, but it annoys to no ends how they say the things they do!) If you feel so bad about telling your kid what happened, then why I so humbly ask, did you partake in the very event?


I take it you haven't tried explaining sex to a two year old? You just get a blank look.

I think everyone needs to chill out man, just lean back and let it happen, it'll only hurt for a little bit at the start but then it will start to feel really good...;)

Surely, whether you have children or not, you MUST realise that telling young children about the sexual and reproductive processes, you hone their inquiry. Suddenly, where babies come from doesn't become nearly so interesting as to what sex is.

I know from the tone of this thread that there will be all too many who are willing to shoot me down and say that I would subject children to lies and maintain their ignorance, but it seems almost mind boggling to me that there are those of you who cannot see the point of view I am advocating.

I can see the point of view you're advocating, but I don't entirely agree with it. My experience with children and yours have apparently been rather different; I find that if a child wants to know something, they tend to seek out that information through whatever avenues are available. If mommy and daddy tell the child "You don't need to know that" or make up obvious falsehoods, that child is far more likely to go seek information elsewhere than to say, "Oh, okay. I don't need to know that. Whatever!" - and I don't know about you, but I'd much rather have children learn about sex from their parents than from other kids or TV shows.

Besides, what's so horrible about how babies are made? I don't believe anyone's suggesting sitting your kids down and explaining sexual techniques to them, and I don't see anything too horrible and innocence-destroying about the existence of sexual reproduction.

I've already accepted the fact that as long as I live in the Christian nation that is America, sex is evil and wrong.

However, I ask myself the question: Why do parents tell their children that "babies come from mommy's stomach"? Is it so hard to say "well honey/muffin/buttercup, there's a little place under mommy's stomach where babies grow." "What's that called, mommy?" "A womb."

Don't you agree that if we try not to cover toddlers from sex they won't be so curious and rebellious in later years? (Well, not that I really care, but it annoys to no ends how they say the things they do!) If you feel so bad about telling your kid what happened, then why I so humbly ask, did you partake in the very event?

Excuse my polite rant.

I always knew about the womb and how babies were born, ie. the mom had to push them out. i was only 2 when my brother was born and my mom knew that i wouldn't take any bullcrap lame excuses. she said that i told the kids at preschool that when babies were born it was like coming out a big slide, like at the playground...

So did they ever get round to asking you 'do you still beat your wife?'?
Ha. Ha. As a matter of fact, one of my sons once asked me a very similar question, but that was when he was learning how much fun it is to play with words. As I recall, he was about 12 at the time. :p

I can see the point of view you're advocating, but I don't entirely agree with it. My experience with children and yours have apparently been rather different; I find that if a child wants to know something, they tend to seek out that information through whatever avenues are available. If mommy and daddy tell the child "You don't need to know that" or make up obvious falsehoods, that child is far more likely to go seek information elsewhere than to say, "Oh, okay. I don't need to know that. Whatever!" - and I don't know about you, but I'd much rather have children learn about sex from their parents than from other kids or TV shows.

Besides, what's so horrible about how babies are made? I don't believe anyone's suggesting sitting your kids down and explaining sexual techniques to them, and I don't see anything too horrible and innocence-destroying about the existence of sexual reproduction.

I suppose it's entirely dependant on what specifically you tell the child. As I'd stated, I would not offer daft mythologies as a serious answer, but I remember back to when I was quite young....maybe 6 or 7.... I broadly knew that there was this thing called sex and that's how babies were made, but I had no idea what sex was or how it worked....and I was happy to leave it at that. My enquiries to my parents only came after I had some kid being graphic in the play ground, but that was barely as a preteen when I made those enquiries. I can't help but feel that If I knew more about what sex was at a younger age I'd have been far more interested to seek it out. In hindsight, I cherish my own youthful naivety. I don't see that as a bad thing while others (not all on this thread) seem to take extreme views where sexual mechanisms should be taught to 4 year olds. There have been trials of such education in small samples here in the UK - Some parents left appauled by educational videos akin to hentai being shown to very small children, graphically depicting sexual acts.

It really boils my blood, and thus I can't help but come across as more judgemental - not something I particularly relish being. I will fight for my own daughters innocence for as long as it is relevant to do so. She is only 2 and a half at the moment, and the thought of her being exposed to thoughts and ideas that she is not intellectually or emotionally ready to cope with at the hands of people who feel they are educated or legislated to do so..... well, I trust my tone is self evident!!

I suppose it's entirely dependant on what specifically you tell the child. As I'd stated, I would not offer daft mythologies as a serious answer, but I remember back to when I was quite young....maybe 6 or 7.... I broadly knew that there was this thing called sex and that's how babies were made, but I had no idea what sex was or how it worked....and I was happy to leave it at that. My enquiries to my parents only came after I had some kid being graphic in the play ground, but that was barely as a preteen when I made those enquiries. I can't help but feel that If I knew more about what sex was at a younger age I'd have been far more interested to seek it out. In hindsight, I cherish my own youthful naivety. I don't see that as a bad thing while others (not all on this thread) seem to take extreme views where sexual mechanisms should be taught to 4 year olds. There have been trials of such education in small samples here in the UK - Some parents left appauled by educational videos akin to hentai being shown to very small children, graphically depicting sexual acts.

It really boils my blood, and thus I can't help but come across as more judgemental - not something I particularly relish being. I will fight for my own daughters innocence for as long as it is relevant to do so. She is only 2 and a half at the moment, and the thought of her being exposed to thoughts and ideas that she is not intellectually or emotionally ready to cope with at the hands of people who feel they are educated or legislated to do so..... well, I trust my tone is self evident!!

There's a difference between showing a child pornography and telling them about reproduction. If you cannot see the difference, I pity you.

Please cite your source, Nothing I have ever seen backs up your binge drinking theory

Sorry man, it was a TV report :headbang:

I'll try and dig something up

Moral of this story: Teach kids facts, not fundamentalist BS.

And Food Lion should carry contraceptives too.:headbang:

Not that I really need them, I just think they should...

I don't think it's wise to give children notions of stalks and cabbage patches as a serious answer to a serious question, but neither is it necessary to rob your children of their innocence. Why should todllers know where babies come from? What use do they have for that information? Even if one was twisted enough to think it was ok for a child of a toddlers age to partake in sexual activities, the child is incapable of procreating.

What need is there for them to have that information at that time? Why not wait until it becomes poignient / necessary?

Surely, whether you have children or not, you MUST realise that telling young children about the sexual and reproductive processes, you hone their inquiry. Suddenly, where babies come from doesn't become nearly so interesting as to what sex is.


I don't understand you, Kin. Why would explaining to your toddlers how they came into the world "rob them of their innocence"? Sex is a natural act.

And to the second paragraph of your excerpt, what are you suggesting that you do? Pretend like you didn't hear it? There may not be a need to know many things, but if a child asks, shouldn't you set the standard of responding truthfully and completely to something they want to know?

And to the last part of the excerpt, I believe that though their interest might die down, certainly, when they reach puberty and beyond, it will spike up again, and they might come to you again, with more mature and pointed questions.

Moral of this story: Teach kids facts, not fundamentalist BS.

And Food Lion should carry contraceptives too.:headbang:

Not that I really need them, I just think they should...



Well, considering atheist parents tell their kids about the stork or whatever too, it is hardly fundamentalist

I take it you haven't tried explaining sex to a two year old? You just get a blank look.

You don't have to go into every nook and cranny detail (unless they ask you) but you can dumb it down to a point where they understand.

But, no, I haven't. It will be quite an experience if I ever have to.

Well, considering atheist parents tell their kids about the stork or whatever too, it is hardly fundamentalist

True. But are atheists the ones teaching us abstinence-only BS?
And Fundies tend to do it more often.

True. But are atheists the ones teaching us abstinence-only BS?
And Fundies tend to do it more often.

Abstinence definitely is the only way to be sure you don't have a kid...

Abstinence definitely is the only way to be sure you don't have a kid...
Yeah, because teaching abstinence only sex-ed has kept this town's pregnancy level one of the highest in the state.

The truth is that people will have sex. It's a natural instinct. Whether we choose to accept that and provide them the info and tools they need to be responsible about it or not is what will ultimately decide pregnancy rates.

Abstinence definitely is the only way to be sure you don't have a kid...

True. (^.^)

(<.<)(>.>) But still, the sexually active should know about birth control.

True. (^.^)

(<.<)(>.>) But still, the sexually active should know about birth control.

They should know BEFORE they become sexually active. It only takes one time a baby to make.

Wikaedia, unlike you when I was six I was already well-aware of what sex, if not procreation, was all about, thanks to abuse. Even looking back on those times, I fail to see how an appropriate introduction to the basic facts of sex and reproduction in any way rob a child of "innocence". Are you equating "innocence" with lack of sexual knowledge? If so, then it's pointless to argue my stance, because you've already dismissed the issue by defining it in a way that likely isn't consistent with the majority view, and definitely not with mine.

To me "innocence" has nothing to do with knowledge. It has everything to do with one's way of looking at the world. A child views the world in a very different way than an adult does. There's a sense of wonder, there, that we eventually lose. I grew up from a very early age with a cynical outlook on life, and I'm only now beginning to regain that sense of wonder ... that "innocence" -- and I actually know quite a lot about sex.

I'm not saying that you should sit down and talk about the birds and bees on some scheduled point in your child's life -- only that you answer truthfully (and *fully*) any question that a child has regarding sex when that question is asked. If your answers spur more questions, then so be it. In my book that's a Good Thing. It's much better that a child of age seven know about sex from his/her parents (assuming *they* are knowledgeable about it) than to learn it from fellow students in school. On the flip side, any attempt to sugar-coat things will almost certainly result in misunderstandings later on, and those misunderstandings propagate from one generation to the next. It's probably one reason that the average guy can't explain *precisely* where the hymen is (and many girls, who actually have them, don't know, either).

When is an appropriate age for children to start asking questions? The age at which they start asking questions, of course. I was curious when I was four and got no answers except "don't touch yourself down there". Some children don't ask that first question until they're eight. It depends upon the child, but as a responsible adult you have to be willing and ready to deal with the issue in a straightforward way when the time comes.

I'll probably never have children, save for external fertilization and surrogate mothers, since I've been partially "fixed", as we say in the veterinary profession, but if I do (and this includes any I help to raise), they aren't going to be told about cabbage patches and storks and Santa Clause, except in the context that they *know* we're talking about fantasy and not real life. We owe it to our children to not stuff their brains with such malarkey at such a tender, impressionable age. There are other ways to whet their appetite for the wonders of the world than to make stuff up like that.

They should know BEFORE they become sexually active. It only takes one time a baby to make.

Bah, that's what I meant. (>.<) REally, that's what I meant.

Bah, that's what I meant. (>.<) REally, that's what I meant.

Ok :fluffle:

Ok :fluffle:

I'll fluffle with you Celt, if ya tell me how old you are.

...I'm 14. :eek:

I'll fluffle with you Celt, if ya tell me how old you are.

...I'm 14. :eek:

63 years young, so if you are truly 14 and female I guess I can wait another 4 years to fluffle with you. :p

I never asked my parents, I just kind of learned it on my own. :eek: I've never even had "the talk."

63 years young, so if you are truly 14 and female I guess I can wait another 4 years to fluffle with you. :p

:eek: No fluffle for you then!

:D

:eek: No fluffle for you then!

:D
:( :p

True. But are atheists the ones teaching us abstinence-only BS?And Fundies tend to do it more often.


Yes, as school is a secular institution, it could be considered atheists teachings. My 8th grade health class espoused abstinence only, and that was the only non-parental sex-ed I ever had.

Yes, as school is a secular institution, it could be considered atheists teachings. My 8th grade health class espoused abstinence only, and that was the only non-parental sex-ed I ever had.

Hmm, somehow I don' think so. Assuming you live in the US, then you'll know that it's illegal in some states (like North Effing Carolina) to teach BC in school, thanks to the religious right.:headbang:

Since when do Christians think sex is evil.

Yes, as school is a secular institution, it could be considered atheists teachings.

This is actually a rather naieve perspective ... nothing personal, you understand. Many people don't realize that the laws of this country, as well as many of the moral/ethical standards espoused in the public education system, are actually Christian ideals (or at least based upon them), loosely, if at all, disguised as secular ideas. The vast majority of Christians are going to miss this point because to them those concepts are such a "natural" part of their lives and it just makes sense to them. There are some of us, however, who don't happen to agree with those ideals, or who do so because of non-religious reasons, for whom the religious influence in our legal doctrines is quite obvious. Contrary to what is widely taught, Americans do *not* live in a secular society and our government is not secular, separation of Church and State notwithstanding.

eh... no more sugarcoating... why hasn't anyone petitioned any state governments about this?:headbang:

As others have said, Christian's don't think that sex is evil. Sex is great...in its place. Which is inside marriage. Not everyone agrees with this. I get that, and I respect your right to believe differently.
That is why sex ed should absolutely NOT take place in schools. Abstinence education is not likely to work in that setting. It is not because kids are going to "do it anyway". It is because abstinence requires a why. Yes, kids will disobey if you just tell them "don't do it". Young kids will also play in the street after being told not to. They have to understand the danger. (This analogy may be flawed, my husband can usually find the flaw, but he isn't here right now to help.) Teenagers can make wise decisions given the chance, but they need the right information. They won't get that from an abstinence course in a school setting. They need a parent (or parent appointed surrogate) who can explain the "why". That "why" will not even always be the same.
The point is, that the school cannot adequately explain the "why" for everyone. But teaching birth control doesn't work either. That takes away the prerogative of the parents to provide for the education of their children. This subject is just entirely inappropriate for a school setting.

Also, the idea that telling silly stories about child birth to small children is a Christian idea, is, well, silly. I don't know why people do that, but it is a silly thing to do regardless of your belief system. There are other ways to moderate children's depth of knowledge in the issue without making up lies. Christian doesn't equal stupid, despite what some people seem to think.

As others have said, Christian's don't think that sex is evil. Sex is great...in its place. Which is inside marriage. Not everyone agrees with this. I get that, and I respect your right to believe differently.
That is why sex ed should absolutely NOT take place in schools. Abstinence education is not likely to work in that setting. It is not because kids are going to "do it anyway". It is because abstinence requires a why. Yes, kids will disobey if you just tell them "don't do it". Young kids will also play in the street after being told not to. They have to understand the danger. (This analogy may be flawed, my husband can usually find the flaw, but he isn't here right now to help.) Teenagers can make wise decisions given the chance, but they need the right information. They won't get that from an abstinence course in a school setting. They need a parent (or parent appointed surrogate) who can explain the "why". That "why" will not even always be the same.
The point is, that the school cannot adequately explain the "why" for everyone. But teaching birth control doesn't work either. That takes away the prerogative of the parents to provide for the education of their children. This subject is just entirely inappropriate for a school setting.

BRAVO!!! Except one thing... I think sex ed should take place in schools, mainly due to the fact that asking one's parents isn't always such a good idea. Not every parent knows everything about BC, contraceptives, and STDs, plus if you've got very conservative parents, you're very likely not getting much information. Abstinence is a bad idea if you just tell us no with out giving us good reasons why and giving us the right information, which is why birth control should be taught along with it, so teens can make better choices.

There are other ways to moderate children's depth of knowledge in the issue without making up lies. Christian doesn't equal stupid, despite what some people seem to think

Well said. :D

I told my kids where babies came from, and over time we've covered many topics relating to sex. I don't believe one big "The Talk" is the way to deal with things. It's more of education over time like so many other things we teach our kids.

So... do any North Carolinians wanna petition the state government with me?

Anyone?

Anyone?

Am I alone in this...??? :(

Nobody wants to petition anything with me...??

:(

bump... bump bump bump.... bump bump bump... bump bump bump!!!

bumpity bumpity bumpity bumpity bump

bumps by bob bob bob philip bob billy bob bobby bob bob bob bob joe bob

BAH! Will soebody please post?

Or at least petition the NC state government with me?

:headbang:

Learning in a vacuum is pretty difficult, and, besides, you're getting a pretty one-sided and restricted perspective of what sex is.

OWWWWWCH, I bet it IS both one sided and restricted :eek: if you use a vacuum!!

Oh dear, that's just wrong. :p

OWWWWWCH, I bet it IS both one sided and restricted :eek: if you use a vacuum!!

:eek: :D

I've already accepted the fact that as long as I live in the Christian nation that is America, sex is evil and wrong.

However, I ask myself the question: Why do parents tell their children that "babies come from mommy's stomach"? Is it so hard to say "well honey/muffin/buttercup, there's a little place under mommy's stomach where babies grow." "What's that called, mommy?" "A womb."

Don't you agree that if we try not to cover toddlers from sex they won't be so curious and rebellious in later years? (Well, not that I really care, but it annoys to no ends how they say the things they do!) If you feel so bad about telling your kid what happened, then why I so humbly ask, did you partake in the very event?

Excuse my polite rant.

Who said the Christian view is that sex is wrong?

Who said the Christian view is that sex is wrong?

The original poster. :rolleyes:

Of course, with fundies spouting their BS within 3000 miles of celebrities spouting their "What STDs? What is abstinence?" BS, people are, for some reason, either more inclined to listen to a moron with breast implants and a glittery dress who didn't finish high school; or are more inclined to listen to some old fart saying "Sex is for marriage only!" The sad part is, the screaming liberals then say that Christians believe sex is evil. Which we do not believe.

Can we nuke Hollywank now?

My mom had "the talk" with me when I was ten, when I learned about menstruation and the basics of how babies are made. Before that, no one told me babies come from the belly, but I saw Mom's belly get bigger when she was pregnant, so when my sisters and I played, we'd put a doll under our shirt.

After that talk, all of my sex ed came from friends, books, and the internet. And I learned a lot.

My dad had a few other talks with me. The first when I started dating my first bf, he told me "when the gun comes out of the holster, its ready to fire." I definately was way more naive then he realized, lol. It was a totally unnecessary talk. And again around age 16 or 17, it was a much better talk. He told me not to have sex, not because of STDs or pregnancy, which altho they could happen the chances were slim, but because it is a huge emotional commitment I would not be ready to deal with, and I would not be able to talk to him about it, cuz he'd wanna kill me.

It was good reasoning, and I waited for some time because of it.

The original poster. :rolleyes:

Of course, with fundies spouting their BS within 3000 miles of celebrities spouting their "What STDs? What is abstinence?" BS, people are, for some reason, either more inclined to listen to a moron with breast implants and a glittery dress who didn't finish high school; or are more inclined to listen to some old fart saying "Sex is for marriage only!" The sad part is, the screaming liberals then say that Christians believe sex is evil. Which we do not believe.

Can we nuke Hollywank now?

Just because I don't listen to men who wear dog collars doesn't mean I listen to idiotic celebrities either. I think they are both idiotic. I would however, take the opinions of someone I know, and has had experience with sex. (Which might include priests, but I meant.....oh nevermind.)

Just because I don't listen to men who wear dog collars doesn't mean I listen to idiotic celebrities either. I think they are both idiotic. I would however, take the opinions of someone I know, and has had experience with sex. (Which might include priests, but I meant.....oh nevermind.)

Hmpf. I stand corrected then.

Can we still destroy Hollywank then? :sniper: :mp5:


:D

This is actually a rather naieve perspective ... nothing personal, you understand. Many people don't realize that the laws of this country, as well as many of the moral/ethical standards espoused in the public education system, are actually Christian ideals (or at least based upon them), loosely, if at all, disguised as secular ideas. The vast majority of Christians are going to miss this point because to them those concepts are such a "natural" part of their lives and it just makes sense to them. There are some of us, however, who don't happen to agree with those ideals, or who do so because of non-religious reasons, for whom the religious influence in our legal doctrines is quite obvious. Contrary to what is widely taught, Americans do *not* live in a secular society and our government is not secular, separation of Church and State notwithstanding.

I know this, as just about everyone here has read most of or all of the Declaration of Independance, wherein God is mentioned repeatedly. But in schools, (in my school district) religion is not even an optional course until practically college level. Laws here may be based partially on Christian morality, but freedom of religion is a major tenent of this country also. Because of this, the pre-college school system was deemed to not even have any option, really, of religious classes, history or otherwise. Therefore, modern schools are a secular institution.