NationStates Jolt Archive

i love my country,my son is serving,my dad was in korea,and my grandfather got the cmh in ww1...

i feel we are being fucked...what happenened to the eishowers?(sp)

my kid went away,and i miss him so much i could die.
i would happily trade places with any kid over there.

and it offends me that people here,bad mouth my son,and he has not 1 bad bone in his body.but some here will cheer his death...when all he wants to do is be good for the world.
he is a kid....idealistic like most here,but it his only way to advance thru society,as he has no rich daddy or some skill that is needed.

as much as everyone hates america...please take 1 moment and think of a dad,feeling terribly alone with his son in a battle he had no part in starting...
the rich assholes sent him off,as they knew he had no option...and consider him collateral damage if he dies,like innocent civilians..

sorry for the rant...but i want to cry right now..i miss him so much,i tried to talk him out of it,but i am poor,and he realised it was his out..if he can make it thru it...he has a job in the real world.

i am not saying i agree or dissagree with the war..i am saying i miss my son....and i would trade places with him in a new york minute..as i am sour...he is a beautiful child,and i fear war will jade him.
he has a romantic idea....cause my family was war heros,but he is a sweet kid,and it kills me to think of him seeing the reality of war..i was a shitty dad,kinda,well i was selfish,and i fought gang stuff...but war,and i fear i trained him to like this shit...\
sorry,does anyone pray?

sounds dumb eh

sounds dumb eh
Not at all. I hope he comes back soon, safe and sound.

It's not dumb. The same thing has happened countless times to countless people, and this is one of the more peaceful times civilization has seen, believe it or not. I've got relatives who've been in the same boat or currently are, and it's not easy on anyone.

Not at all. I hope he comes back soon, safe and sound.

Me too.
Sometimes it helps to share. :fluffle:

To your son..Good luck and Godspeed.


i love my country,my son is serving,my dad was in korea,and my grandfather got the cmh in ww1...

i feel we are being fucked...what happenened to the eishowers?(sp)

my kid went away,and i miss him so much i could die.
i would happily trade places with any kid over there.

and it offends me that people here,bad mouth my son,and he has not 1 bad bone in his body.but some here will cheer his death...when all he wants to do is be good for the world.
he is a kid....idealistic like most here,but it his only way to advance thru society,as he has no rich daddy or some skill that is needed.

as much as everyone hates america...please take 1 moment and think of a dad,feeling terribly alone with his son in a battle he had no part in starting...
the rich assholes sent him off,as they knew he had no option...and consider him collateral damage if he dies,like innocent civilians..

sorry for the rant...but i want to cry right now..i miss him so much,i tried to talk him out of it,but i am poor,and he realised it was his out..if he can make it thru it...he has a job in the real world.

i am not saying i agree or dissagree with the war..i am saying i miss my son....and i would trade places with him in a new york minute..as i am sour...he is a beautiful child,and i fear war will jade him.
he has a romantic idea....cause my family was war heros,but he is a sweet kid,and it kills me to think of him seeing the reality of war..i was a shitty dad,kinda,well i was selfish,and i fought gang stuff...but war,and i fear i trained him to like this shit...\
sorry,does anyone pray?

sounds dumb eh

To your son..Good luck and Godspeed.

I hate Bush also, good luck to your son.

I really hope he comes home safe. It's a shame that people in our own country spit on our soldiers like they do. A real damn shame.

thank you to everyone...i am am at wits end.

it is so nice to not feel so alone and afraid.

i am afraid for him/for what he may see..i am suppose to shelter him from that horror....now i cant and i feel...horrible.

thankyou to everyone that understands,i am scared for him,and it is selfish,but i would rather be in his shoes.

i never prayed until lately..lol...

/snip

sorry,does anyone pray?

sounds dumb eh

I don't pray, and I don't like Americas wars. But we are all human, to cheer anyones death would be callous and cruel.
I hope your son returns to you safe and unharmed.

The only thing "dum" is your brazen assault upon the English language.

I hope your son comes back safe as soon as possible. No prayers, sorry, but sincere hope. It makes me sick how this war is making real people suffer the way you and your family are. I wish I could do anything to make it easier for you. Just know you are not alone. Everyone of us who oppose this war, do it because we love and respect our soldiers and don't want to see them used like corporate mercenaries. Don't ever think we don't feel for you and your family.

The only thing "dum" is your brazen assault upon the English language.

thanks for your lesson in english...and sensitivity!

Not at all. I hope he comes back soon, safe and sound.

Same here. Will pray for his safety, and that he accomplishes his job and executes swift justice upon evil doers....whereever they may be.

Reminder: The goal of the armed forces is not to die for their country. It's to make the other fella die for his ;)

My buddy is either going to Iraq after airbourne school or germany.

He wants Iraq.

I'm about a year off from finishing up at college.....:p

ETA: AJ man, do you talk to him much? I've got a ton of advice from Iraq vets you might want to share with him. Basic stuff that would help him save his limbs from getting blown off by IEDs, etc...if you want it I can Telegram it to you or just post it here. Also some stuff on Preventative maintenance for his rifle so it doesn't let him down when he needs it most.

A friend of mine came back from Iraq recently. I hope your son comes back too.

But even if he comes back, it'll be hard. And I hope he makes it through that too.

thanks for your lesson in english...and sensitivity!To what do you refer? I assume, that my callous and flippant refusal to allow English to be misused has caused you offence, I am not sorry. As for your son who may or may not exist, I really do not feel one way or the other and find it demeaning, to all concerned, to feign compassion.

I hope your son comes back safe as soon as possible. No prayers, sorry, but sincere hope. It makes me sick how this war is making real people suffer the way you and your family are. I wish I could do anything to make it easier for you. Just know you are not alone. Everyone of us who oppose this war, do it because we love and respect our soldiers and don't want to see them used like corporate mercenaries. Don't ever think we don't feel for you and your family.

thank you,
i was/am against the war..

i despise war..but it is as history shows,inevitable.

it hits close to home obviously for me,and i imagine for anyone in a combat zone.

i suppose i want to point out that i am old enough to know that war and violence is senseless.
i just miss my son,and i thought i instilled in him the point that war is futile,no one wins
but....he is there,and yes i blame bush for putting him there...but the fact is,my son is in harms way...and i guess it is in some way protecting us...but until bush goes and gets wet,,,,i cant respect him,i just miss my boy,and dread how it will change him.

the neo cons are very loose with their warmongering...yet they never serve.

i didn't want to make this political...sorry..i just miss my kid..and i am proud of him...period!

Who said anything about hating anyone?:confused:

I hate Bush also, good luck to your son.

To what do you refer? I assume, that my callous and flippant refusal to allow English to be misused has caused you offence, I am not sorry. As for your son who may or may not exist, I really do not feel one way or the other and find it demeaning, to all concerned, to feign compassion.
So don't feign compassion if you don't want to, but don't dog him on his internet grammar and put him down.

Not at all. I hope he comes back soon, safe and sound.

thank you.

i love my country,my son is serving,my dad was in korea,and my grandfather got the cmh in ww1...

i feel we are being fucked...what happenened to the eishowers?(sp)

my kid went away,and i miss him so much i could die.
i would happily trade places with any kid over there.

and it offends me that people here,bad mouth my son,and he has not 1 bad bone in his body.but some here will cheer his death...when all he wants to do is be good for the world.
he is a kid....idealistic like most here,but it his only way to advance thru society,as he has no rich daddy or some skill that is needed.

as much as everyone hates america...please take 1 moment and think of a dad,feeling terribly alone with his son in a battle he had no part in starting...
the rich assholes sent him off,as they knew he had no option...and consider him collateral damage if he dies,like innocent civilians..

sorry for the rant...but i want to cry right now..i miss him so much,i tried to talk him out of it,but i am poor,and he realised it was his out..if he can make it thru it...he has a job in the real world.

i am not saying i agree or dissagree with the war..i am saying i miss my son....and i would trade places with him in a new york minute..as i am sour...he is a beautiful child,and i fear war will jade him.
he has a romantic idea....cause my family was war heros,but he is a sweet kid,and it kills me to think of him seeing the reality of war..i was a shitty dad,kinda,well i was selfish,and i fought gang stuff...but war,and i fear i trained him to like this shit...\
sorry,does anyone pray?

sounds dumb eh


I can be a real asshole at times...sorry .

The only thing "dum" is your brazen assault upon the English language.

your a troll...an intellectual type...but a troll none the less...and i read your "flippant remark"
i have nothing to say to someone as shitty as you...or maybe...go f#$# yourself you smug ass.

how dare you impugn me,and worse..my son who is fighting for your right to run your your twit mouth...

i get it..your all about freedom of speech..just as long as others secure it for you...pussy!

dont you ever insult my kid..insult me all you want..your unarmed...but disparage my kid...thats fighting for your right to sit in your parents room and run your twit mouth...lol..i have nothing else to say..you showed what a twit you are...go read tiger beat you arse.

i love my country,my son is serving,my dad was in korea,and my grandfather got the cmh in ww1...

i feel we are being fucked...what happenened to the eishowers?(sp)

my kid went away,and i miss him so much i could die.
i would happily trade places with any kid over there.

and it offends me that people here,bad mouth my son,and he has not 1 bad bone in his body.but some here will cheer his death...when all he wants to do is be good for the world.
he is a kid....idealistic like most here,but it his only way to advance thru society,as he has no rich daddy or some skill that is needed.

as much as everyone hates america...please take 1 moment and think of a dad,feeling terribly alone with his son in a battle he had no part in starting...
the rich assholes sent him off,as they knew he had no option...and consider him collateral damage if he dies,like innocent civilians..

sorry for the rant...but i want to cry right now..i miss him so much,i tried to talk him out of it,but i am poor,and he realised it was his out..if he can make it thru it...he has a job in the real world.

i am not saying i agree or dissagree with the war..i am saying i miss my son....and i would trade places with him in a new york minute..as i am sour...he is a beautiful child,and i fear war will jade him.
he has a romantic idea....cause my family was war heros,but he is a sweet kid,and it kills me to think of him seeing the reality of war..i was a shitty dad,kinda,well i was selfish,and i fought gang stuff...but war,and i fear i trained him to like this shit...\
sorry,does anyone pray?

sounds dumb eh

Your child is brave to go to war. While I am pro-war I understand how hard any war/all war is. I think your son made a good choice in going, if thats truley what we wanted...and I pray that he will make it back safe, and a better man from it. The parents of our military show strength beyond what is humanly possible...and while I am for this war I hope we can end it soon and bring our children home.

To what do you refer? I assume, that my callous and flippant refusal to allow English to be misused has caused you offence, I am not sorry. As for your son who may or may not exist, I really do not feel one way or the other and find it demeaning, to all concerned, to feign compassion.

Fancy words do not cover up that fact that your an asshole.

your a troll...an intellectual type...but a troll none the less...and i read your "flippant remark"
i have nothing to say to someone as shitty as you...or maybe...go f#$# yourself you smug ass.

how dare you impugn me,and worse..my son who is fighting for your right to run your your twit mouth...

i get it..your all about freedom of speech..just as long as others secure it for you...pussy!

dont you ever insult my kid..insult me all you want..your unarmed...but disparage my kid...thats fighting for your right to sit in your parents room and run your twit mouth...lol..i have nothing else to say..you showed what a twit you are...go read tiger beat you arse.

Dont worry, we call these pussies, internet thugs.

In reality, they are usually week and feeble...and lose all source of life during a power outage.

I hope your son comes back, safe in both mind and body. I hope that whatever you believe in that comforts you gives you the strength and the wisdom to pull yourself through these times as well.

Further, I hope that, even in this trying time, that you have the patience to seperate criticism of the war from criticism of the warriors.

My family has seved in the milatary since the civil war.....both sides...I cant tell you much more than ..my brothers and myselfe have served in either law enforcement or the army ....the navy ...and the Marines ...MY brother died a Marine....so this bullshit that i have to deal with on this forum and others like it...not for nothing it makes me fear for the future of my family and friends...

the world is fucked . If what I reaad and understand from what I see on this forum .

You realy should just get it over with and just kill your self . it would be faster and hurt less.

thank you for your service and for your families sacrifice,it is apparent,that most here have no idea about sacrifice or honor...actually..most here are typing away at daddies computer,that we provided,and listening to sour grape proffesors that are full of self loathing cause they sucked when the whistle blew...but then again..there are some right people here..from both sides of the fence,and it is smart to listen to them...just ignore the knee jerk twits.

i always listen to opposing points of view,just not asshole kneejerk party line types.
or you know..my proffessor told me this..lol...pathetic at times how kids think they know it all...and yet know nothing...and on the other hand...some real cool kids got me beat with enjoying life.

but i digress..as soon as my kid calls me from fort benning(the toughest bootcmp next to parris island)i will be content..and the losers that my kid protects can run their mouths all day.
and i wont care..
nice people here if you ask me..but a bunch of keyboard commando's also...you know..for the lib's

the funny thing is..i am a socialist by nature

thank you for your service and for your families sacrifice,it is apparent,that most here have no idea about sacrifice or honor...actually..most here are typing away at daddies computer,that we provided,and listening to sour grape proffesors that are full of self loathing cause they sucked when the whistle blew...but then again..there are some right people here..from both sides of the fence,and it is smart to listen to them...just ignore the knee jerk twits.

i always listen to opposing points of view,just not asshole kneejerk party line types.
or you know..my proffessor told me this..lol...pathetic at times how kids think they know it all...and yet know nothing...and on the other hand...some real cool kids got me beat with enjoying life.

but i digress..as soon as my kid calls me from fort benning(the toughest bootcmp next to parris island)i will be content..and the losers that my kid protects can run their mouths all day.
and i wont care..
nice people here if you ask me..but a bunch of keyboard commando's also...you know..for the lib's

the funny thing is..i am a socialist by nature

So the American liberals who teach your children for a pittance, go out and do their part to keep developing nations stable to prevent the rise of dangerous dictatorships (you know, the Peace Corps? where they get payed just over 6000 dollars for over 2 years of service?), or have shortened lifespans in the protection of people's health (doctors) have no idea what sacrifice is, is that it? Professors who are payed next to nothing to teach children and young adults the skills they will need to survive in the real world, and whose research keeps the people of this nation safe, healthy, happy, and comfortable for less money than they would earn in the private sector... are they just "windbags"?

Come on. Even a pacifist like me respects that there is a sacrifice involved in joining the military, but to act as if fighting were the only service one can provide (or, indeed, a superior one) is sheer arrogance. Be fair, it is certainly wrong to impugn the honor of one who serves in the military, and anyone with a heart feels empathy for military families, but it is equally wrong to impugn the honor of those people who serve their country in non-violent ways or plan to do so, if they cannot yet.

So the American liberals who teach your children for a pittance, go out and do their part to keep developing nations stable to prevent the rise of dangerous dictatorships (you know, the Peace Corps? where they get payed just over 6000 dollars for over 2 years of service?), or have shortened lifespans in the protection of people's health (doctors) have no idea what sacrifice is, is that it? Professors who are payed next to nothing to teach children and young adults the skills they will need to survive in the real world, and whose research keeps the people of this nation safe, healthy, happy, and comfortable for less money than they would earn in the private sector... are they just "windbags"?

Come on. Even a pacifist like me respects that there is a sacrifice involved in joining the military, but to act as if fighting were the only service one can provide (or, indeed, a superior one) is sheer arrogance. Be fair, it is certainly wrong to impugn the honor of one who serves in the military, and anyone with a heart feels empathy for military families, but it is equally wrong to impugn the honor of those people who serve their country in non-violent ways or plan to do so, if they cannot yet.

Hear hear!

If you think this war is foolish, then what is your son?
Why didn't you stop him?

You'll just have to forgive me for thinking this whole thing is absurd. It's like a worried mother asking people to pray her neo-Nazi son don't get hurt while he's off beating up immigrants with a lead pipe.

Unlike DM, I'm not hoping your son fights evil whenever he sees it. I'm sure he'd get put to death if he shot his commanding officer, and while such grave stupidity as your son's should be illegal, I've no desire to se him harmed.

So the American liberals who teach your children for a pittance, go out and do their part to keep developing nations stable to prevent the rise of dangerous dictatorships (you know, the Peace Corps? where they get payed just over 6000 dollars for over 2 years of service?), or have shortened lifespans in the protection of people's health (doctors) have no idea what sacrifice is, is that it? Professors who are payed next to nothing to teach children and young adults the skills they will need to survive in the real world, and whose research keeps the people of this nation safe, healthy, happy, and comfortable for less money than they would earn in the private sector... are they just "windbags"?

Come on. Even a pacifist like me respects that there is a sacrifice involved in joining the military, but to act as if fighting were the only service one can provide (or, indeed, a superior one) is sheer arrogance. Be fair, it is certainly wrong to impugn the honor of one who serves in the military, and anyone with a heart feels empathy for military families, but it is equally wrong to impugn the honor of those people who serve their country in non-violent ways or plan to do so, if they cannot yet.

you know..i just love my son.

and i have nothing but respect for the peace corps.

my girlfriend went to africa "to do the right thing"..she was murdered...but that is life..no?

now i have my son and daughter...my son is being deployed,and my girl is going to law school....

my girl is the most selfish person i have ever met...a 1 way street if you will...but thats fine with me....my boy..he went in the army,cause my dad was in there and my grandfather was also.

he somehowthinks he can make a difference....fol;...i keep telling him...everyone will hate you cause your an american soldier...he just says,oh well!
my girl says she wants to be rich and have my house on the beach...cool....way different attitudes.

my son is going to risk his life,and he does not need too...for others...he could coast on me...but he wont/will not...so i a proud. father.....and some weiner asswipe badmouthing him does not detract from my respect of him...it only proves my point.

he is the guy that keeps the wussies typing away at daddies keyboard....

some turd typing bad shit about my boy proves only 1 thing...they are pussies,and ...dont look now...mommy's coming...lol

it is real easy to badmouth others...walk a mile in their shoes...period.

your a troll...an intellectual type...but a troll none the less...and i read your "flippant remark"
i have nothing to say to someone as shitty as you...or maybe...go f#$# yourself you smug ass.

how dare you impugn me,and worse..my son who is fighting for your right to run your your twit mouth...

i get it..your all about freedom of speech..just as long as others secure it for you...pussy!

dont you ever insult my kid..insult me all you want..your unarmed...but disparage my kid...thats fighting for your right to sit in your parents room and run your twit mouth...lol..i have nothing else to say..you showed what a twit you are...go read tiger beat you arse.
I do not believe I ever insulted your son, in fact I am member of the Australian Naval Reserves, what I do take issue with, is the fact you bastardise the language of Shakespeare.

If I ever met you in the street, I would say the same thing.

The only one ad hominem attacked in this thread has been me, as I do recall I was called "an asshole".

So I'll walk across the room of MY apartment, crack open a bottle of Moet and engage in a hearty "lol"

To what do you refer? I assume, that my callous and flippant refusal to allow English to be misused has caused you offence, I am not sorry. As for your son who may or may not exist, I really do not feel one way or the other and find it demeaning, to all concerned, to feign compassion.


and civility, as well.

Classy, Rot.

SNIP
sorry,does anyone pray?

sounds dumb eh

I'll bear your son, and you, in mind tomorrow.

i love my country,my son is serving,my dad was in korea,and my grandfather got the cmh in ww1...

i feel we are being fucked...what happenened to the eishowers?(sp)

my kid went away,and i miss him so much i could die.
i would happily trade places with any kid over there.

and it offends me that people here,bad mouth my son,and he has not 1 bad bone in his body.but some here will cheer his death...when all he wants to do is be good for the world.
he is a kid....idealistic like most here,but it his only way to advance thru society,as he has no rich daddy or some skill that is needed.

I hope your son returns home safe. However, he DID VOLUNTEER.
America is not hijacked. That you are not rich or that he "has no needed skills" is solely a reflection upon how the two of you have lived your lives, not on the USA.

as much as everyone hates america...please take 1 moment and think of a dad,feeling terribly alone with his son in a battle he had no part in starting...
the rich assholes sent him off,as they knew he had no option...and consider him collateral damage if he dies,like innocent civilians..

Yep. Like my friends at WTC 7 (heartattack during 9/11) and in the North Tower? Yes, he might die in combat. I really, really hope he doesn't. And I thank him for fighting so that I can work in NYC with a much lower risk of getting blown up. He's doing his job well.

sorry for the rant...but i want to cry right now..i miss him so much,i tried to talk him out of it,but i am poor,and he realised it was his out..if he can make it thru it...he has a job in the real world.

i am not saying i agree or dissagree with the war..i am saying i miss my son....and i would trade places with him in a new york minute..as i am sour...he is a beautiful child,and i fear war will jade him.
he has a romantic idea....cause my family was war heros,but he is a sweet kid,and it kills me to think of him seeing the reality of war..i was a shitty dad,kinda,well i was selfish,and i fought gang stuff...but war,and i fear i trained him to like this shit...\
sorry,does anyone pray?
sounds dumb eh

Not dumb at all. I'll light a candle for you & yours this Sunday.

Good lord. Nobody questions the bravery or valour of the combatent forces in US wars. Their lack of intellect, and blind jingoism, perhaps, but not their bravery.

The majority of the critics of the war are able to percieve the defined line between the prosecutors of a conflict, and its directors.

Your child is brave to go to war. While I am pro-war I understand how hard any war/all war is. I think your son made a good choice in going, if thats truley what we wanted...and I pray that he will make it back safe, and a better man from it. The parents of our military show strength beyond what is humanly possible...and while I am for this war I hope we can end it soon and bring our children home.
Any endorsement by a pro-war poster who uses Hitler in his signature is like the kiss of death...

i love my country,my son is serving,my dad was in korea,and my grandfather got the cmh in ww1...

i feel we are being fucked...what happenened to the eishowers?(sp)

my kid went away,and i miss him so much i could die.
i would happily trade places with any kid over there.

and it offends me that people here,bad mouth my son,and he has not 1 bad bone in his body.but some here will cheer his death...when all he wants to do is be good for the world.
he is a kid....idealistic like most here,but it his only way to advance thru society,as he has no rich daddy or some skill that is needed.

as much as everyone hates america...please take 1 moment and think of a dad,feeling terribly alone with his son in a battle he had no part in starting...
the rich assholes sent him off,as they knew he had no option...and consider him collateral damage if he dies,like innocent civilians..

sorry for the rant...but i want to cry right now..i miss him so much,i tried to talk him out of it,but i am poor,and he realised it was his out..if he can make it thru it...he has a job in the real world.

i am not saying i agree or dissagree with the war..i am saying i miss my son....and i would trade places with him in a new york minute..as i am sour...he is a beautiful child,and i fear war will jade him.
he has a romantic idea....cause my family was war heros,but he is a sweet kid,and it kills me to think of him seeing the reality of war..i was a shitty dad,kinda,well i was selfish,and i fought gang stuff...but war,and i fear i trained him to like this shit...\
sorry,does anyone pray?

sounds dumb eh
I hope you son survives the maxim "those who live by the sword, die by the sword". I'm afraid I can't imagine God being on his side. Still, I do hope he returns safe and sound and - hopefully - will have realised his mistake in supporting war.

To what do you refer? I assume, that my callous and flippant refusal to allow English to be misused has caused you offence, I am not sorry. As for your son who may or may not exist, I really do not feel one way or the other and find it demeaning, to all concerned, to feign compassion.

You are a bastard, Rotovia. No one deemed you police of the English language, and to question the authenticity of the poster is absurd, because there is a decent chance his post is authentic -- you even admitted so. Bastard. And you didn't need to feign compassion; at least don't pile on with your useless grammatical criticism. F***ing bastard, puking in your face would be too good for your kind.

To the original poster, none of us are perfect, and the overwhelming chances are, your son will return from Iraq unharmed. Godspeed.

Good lord. Nobody questions the bravery or valour of the combatent forces in US wars. Their lack of intellect, and blind jingoism, perhaps, but not their bravery.

The majority of the critics of the war are able to percieve the defined line between the prosecutors of a conflict, and its directors.

Being dumb doesn't usually win wars. :rolleyes:

I hope you son survives the maxim "those who live by the sword, die by the sword". I'm afraid I can't imagine God being on his side. Still, I do hope he returns safe and sound and - hopefully - will have realised his mistake in supporting war.

Oh my gosh, I'm sorry for coming off an an arrogant SOB... but what a lack of perspective. And how arrogant to say "God is not on the side of a kid returning home from war unharmed." How the hell would you know one way or the other?

Again, to the original poster: without reservation, I and most of the opther posters hope and/or pray your son comes back unharmed. The overwhelming chances are, he will be back to you soon. When that happens, it will be a great day.

Being dumb doesn't usually win wars. :rolleyes:

Overwhelming numbers and technical superiority generally does the trick though......

My point was that, in light of the dangers of warfare, perhaps we ought to question the intellect of the child in question for enlisting.

Overwhelming numbers and technical superiority generally does the trick though......

My point was that, in light of the dangers of warfare, perhaps we ought to question the intellect of the child in question for enlisting.

The US has never fought with overwhelming numbers... and the technical superiority also points to not being dumb. ;)

Aha! Got it.

The US has never fought with overwhelming numbers... and the technical superiority also points to not being dumb. ;)

Aha! Got it.

Never fought with overwhelming numbers? The mantra of the US army is overwhelming force.

Incidentally, prior to your alienating the entire Iraqi population, by what margion did you outnumber the insurrectionists?

Oh my gosh, I'm sorry for coming off an an arrogant SOB... but what a lack of perspective. And how arrogant to say "God is not on the side of a kid returning home from war unharmed." How the hell would you know one way or the other?

Again, to the original poster: without reservation, I and most of the opther posters hope and/or pray your son comes back unharmed. The overwhelming chances are, he will be back to you soon. When that happens, it will be a great day.
Get off your high horse cowboy.... I didn't say "God isn't on his side", I said "I can't imagine God being on his side". If God does exist, I can't imagine Him worrying about people carrying guns, as much as He would be worrying with those that are killed without ever having carried a gun...

Never fought with overwhelming numbers? The mantra of the US army is overwhelming force.

Incidentally, prior to your alienating the entire Iraqi population, by what margion did you outnumber the insurrectionists?

Force yes. Numbers? No. The US has (since the Mexican-American War) relied on the theory of "combined arms" in order to win. Infantry is backed up by Cavalry (now armored units), which is backed up by artillery/naval units, which is backed up by air power.

That hasn't happened yet. We have about 130.000 troops in Iraq, and are most certainly NOT fighting 27 million people...

Any endorsement by a pro-war poster who uses Hitler in his signature is like the kiss of death...

I use the Hitler quote to show what happens to humanity when men do not think.

But, take my endorsement as you will.

i love my country,my son is serving,my dad was in korea,and my grandfather got the cmh in ww1...

i feel we are being fucked...what happenened to the eishowers?(sp)

my kid went away,and i miss him so much i could die.
i would happily trade places with any kid over there.

and it offends me that people here,bad mouth my son,and he has not 1 bad bone in his body.but some here will cheer his death...when all he wants to do is be good for the world.
he is a kid....idealistic like most here,but it his only way to advance thru society,as he has no rich daddy or some skill that is needed.

as much as everyone hates america...please take 1 moment and think of a dad,feeling terribly alone with his son in a battle he had no part in starting...
the rich assholes sent him off,as they knew he had no option...and consider him collateral damage if he dies,like innocent civilians..

sorry for the rant...but i want to cry right now..i miss him so much,i tried to talk him out of it,but i am poor,and he realised it was his out..if he can make it thru it...he has a job in the real world.

i am not saying i agree or dissagree with the war..i am saying i miss my son....and i would trade places with him in a new york minute..as i am sour...he is a beautiful child,and i fear war will jade him.
he has a romantic idea....cause my family was war heros,but he is a sweet kid,and it kills me to think of him seeing the reality of war..i was a shitty dad,kinda,well i was selfish,and i fought gang stuff...but war,and i fear i trained him to like this shit...\
sorry,does anyone pray?

sounds dumb eh


I feel for you...my nephew is doing convoy security...as a volunteer...and my cousins are Marines trying to train iraqis to fight for themselves when they are not in Afghanistan humping all over the mountains looking for Al Queda and taliban .

My son leaves in six months...my brother in law comes back at the same time after 3 tours...they wont let him stay unyil he " decompresses" a bit he wants to go back and finsh the job .

God bless all of them . Every man and women who are doing the things we cant do . I wish them all a safe return and a good life . I love them all .

sounds dumb eh

May he return to you safe and sound Secret. I know what its like to have love ones in harms way. If you ever need to talk, you can reach me through email, telegram, or im.

thank you to everyone...i am am at wits end.

it is so nice to not feel so alone and afraid.

i am afraid for him/for what he may see..i am suppose to shelter him from that horror....now i cant and i feel...horrible.

thankyou to everyone that understands,i am scared for him,and it is selfish,but i would rather be in his shoes.

i never prayed until lately..lol...

You wouldn't be a parent if you didn't fear for him :)

*snip*

Here's a tip. There are many conservatives who are fighting in this war. Keep that in mind before you make a flippent remark like this one.

My family has seved in the milatary since the civil war.....both sides...I cant tell you much more than ..my brothers and myselfe have served in either law enforcement or the army ....the navy ...and the Marines ...MY brother died a Marine....so this bullshit that i have to deal with on this forum and others like it...not for nothing it makes me fear for the future of my family and friends...

the world is fucked . If what I reaad and understand from what I see on this forum .

You realy should just get it over with and just kill your self . it would be faster and hurt less.

Talk about insensitivity. :rolleyes:

Grow up.

You are a bastard, Rotovia. No one deemed you police of the English language, and to question the authenticity of the poster is absurd, because there is a decent chance his post is authentic -- you even admitted so. Bastard. And you didn't need to feign compassion; at least don't pile on with your useless grammatical criticism. F***ing bastard, puking in your face would be too good for your kind.

To the original poster, none of us are perfect, and the overwhelming chances are, your son will return from Iraq unharmed. Godspeed.
I believe the word is 'fucking'. And while many of you may take umbrage with Rotovia on this thread, I can relate to where Rot's coming from on this one. Secret aj man, there's really no way for anyone to know if what you say hear is true or not, so there's no reason to get unduly upset when people doubt the veracity of your claims. That being said, I of course wish harm upon no-one, and I'll hope your son is returned to you before injury, either physical or emotional, is visited upon him in this prolonged, pointless, state-sanctioned armed PR campaign for PNAC.

Overwhelming numbers and technical superiority generally does the trick though......

My point was that, in light of the dangers of warfare, perhaps we ought to question the intellect of the child in question for enlisting.

ANd here's an attack on the American Soldier at its finest. Grow up Chris.

ANd here's an attack on the American Soldier at its finest. Grow up Chris.
No, that's an attack on "the child in question". Remove the blinders, Corny.

No, that's an attack on "the child in question". Remove the blinders, Corny.

Child-in-question=American soldier.

Nice try though. Not my fault you don't know how to comprehend.

Child-in-question=American soldier.

Nice try though. Not my fault you don't know how to comprehend.
It's better than a nice try. It's truth. Children are children, first; they march in silly uniforms and are taught to kill their fellowmen later on.

Read 'em and weep, Corneliu. Biology trumps the artifice of hierarchal structure. Every time.

i love my country,my son is serving,my dad was in korea,and my grandfather got the cmh in ww1...

i feel we are being fucked...what happenened to the eishowers?(sp)

my kid went away,and i miss him so much i could die.
i would happily trade places with any kid over there.

and it offends me that people here,bad mouth my son,and he has not 1 bad bone in his body.but some here will cheer his death...when all he wants to do is be good for the world.
he is a kid....idealistic like most here,but it his only way to advance thru society,as he has no rich daddy or some skill that is needed.

as much as everyone hates america...please take 1 moment and think of a dad,feeling terribly alone with his son in a battle he had no part in starting...
the rich assholes sent him off,as they knew he had no option...and consider him collateral damage if he dies,like innocent civilians..

sorry for the rant...but i want to cry right now..i miss him so much,i tried to talk him out of it,but i am poor,and he realised it was his out..if he can make it thru it...he has a job in the real world.

i am not saying i agree or dissagree with the war..i am saying i miss my son....and i would trade places with him in a new york minute..as i am sour...he is a beautiful child,and i fear war will jade him.
he has a romantic idea....cause my family was war heros,but he is a sweet kid,and it kills me to think of him seeing the reality of war..i was a shitty dad,kinda,well i was selfish,and i fought gang stuff...but war,and i fear i trained him to like this shit...\
sorry,does anyone pray?

sounds dumb eh
:fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

It's better than a nice try. It's truth. Children are children, first; they march in silly uniforms and are taught to kill their fellowmen later on.

Read 'em and weep, Corneliu. Biology trumps the artifice of hierarchal structure. Every time.

:eyeroll:

Never fought with overwhelming numbers? The mantra of the US army is overwhelming force.
Not at all. The "mantra" of the American military is individual initiative.

Not at all. The "mantra" of the American military is individual initiative.
Unmitigated crap.

You trying to tell us it takes 'individual initiative' to file on queue?

:eyeroll:
...and I'll take your response as an admission of defeat. Go me!

...and I'll take your response as an admission of defeat. Go me!

It wasn't an admission of defeat Dobby. More like annoyance that you don't know what you are talking about.

It wasn't an admission of defeat Dobby. More like annoyance that you don't know what you are talking about.
You're far too easily annoyed, then. A point not lost on many in this place.

It wasn't an admission of defeat Dobby. More like annoyance that you don't know what you are talking about.

Happy 19,999 post!

To what do you refer? I assume, that my callous and flippant refusal to allow English to be misused has caused you offence, I am not sorry. As for your son who may or may not exist, I really do not feel one way or the other and find it demeaning, to all concerned, to feign compassion.


Funny. Weren't you the guy who took offence at being called a n**** by any white guy, and "wished" it would stop? So we're all supposed to care about your pseudo-opression, while you beat down on people who are just letting out some steam? Well, hero of the australian reserves, don't let the door hit you on your *asshole* on the way out.

I do not believe I ever insulted your son, (and) in fact I am (a) member of the Australian Naval Reserves, (but) what I do take issue with is the fact (that) you bastardise the language of Shakespeare.
I find this hilarious, since Shakespeare himself bastardised the English language.

Edit: Apparently I forgot the equally hilarious grammar errors in Rotovia-'s post.

To what do you refer? I assume, that my callous and flippant refusal to allow English to be misused has caused you offence, I am not sorry. As for your son who may or may not exist, I really do not feel one way or the other and find it demeaning, to all concerned, to feign compassion.

Just as many intelligent people can't speak English properly (it is the hardest language in the world to learn and many native speakers are bewildered by it), so many people show their lack of intelligence about human needs by posting inappropriate messages to threads. Please, if you are unable to be compassionate, find a thread where your misanthropy will be appreciated.

Thank you.

Funny. Weren't you the guy who took offence at being called a n**** by any white guy, and "wished" it would stop? So we're all supposed to care about your pseudo-opression, while you beat down on people who are just letting out some steam? Well, hero of the australian reserves, don't let the door hit you on your *asshole* on the way out.

Good post. Agreed 100%

Way to tell him.

Rotovia-, I found something that might help to remind you to use conjunctions. It's in the form of a song, so it might be easier for you to understand.

Conjunction Junction, what's your function?
Hooking up words and phrases and clauses.
Conjunction Junction, how's that function?
I got three favorite cars
That get most of my job done.
Conjunction Junction, what's their function?
I got "and", "but", and "or",
They'll get you pretty far.

"And":
That's an additive, like "this and that".
"But":
That's sort of the opposite,
"Not this but that".
And then there's "or":
O-R, when you have a choice like
"This or that".
"And", "but", and "or",
Get you pretty far.

You might also want to learn how to use semicolons.

ANd here's an attack on the American Soldier at its finest. Grow up Chris.

Why?

By all accounts the child was not forced at gun point to enroll, thus one questions why he did so.

Why?

By all accounts the child was not forced at gun point to enroll, thus one questions why he did so.Well, the father pretty much said it was for personal gain.

Why?

By all accounts the child was not forced at gun point to enroll, thus one questions why he did so.

Because he wanted to sign up. Why question their intelligence for signing up?You sir, are an idiot.

Because he wanted to sign up. Why question their intelligence for signing up?You sir, are an idiot.

If an individual is aware of his country's record for involvement in conflict, and willingly enrolls, perhaps he is a tad moronic.

If an individual is aware of his country's record for involvement in conflict, and willingly enrolls, perhaps he is a tad moronic.

My advice to you is to stop insulting my nation's troops. It is not moronic to want to serve in your nation's military. I find it noble that they are willing to place their lives on the line to defend their nation and to keep morons like you free to type this kind of crap.

My advice to you is to stop insulting my nation's troops. It is not moronic to want to serve in your nation's military. I find it noble that they are willing to place their lives on the line to defend their nation and to keep morons like you free to type this kind of crap.

"Morons like you"? Said moron whose nation had no problem with Islamic fundamentalism until jug ears followed Dubya into Iraq? Said moron whose nation was indeed considered in high regard by Iraqis in light of 1922.

Oh, but wait. The quintissential line about "defending those pussies back home". Why on earth would I want to violate the autonomy of a state, or, for that matter, enroll into an establishment wherein I would be subject to danger? If one is willing to sacrifice oneself in the cause of Dollar Imperialism, one's intellect is questionable.

My advice to you is to stop insulting my nation's troops. It is not moronic to want to serve in your nation's military. I find it noble that they are willing to place their lives on the line to defend their nation and to keep morons like you free to type this kind of crap.

Of course - you could argue that anyone joining the military in the last half a decade, has been doing so to wage wars in other countries, and kill OTHER people's sons and daughters... since we are not currently under a state of 'home war'... thus 'defend' is irrelevent.

"Morons like you"? Said moron whose nation had no problem with Islamic fundamentalism until jug ears followed Dubya into Iraq? Said moron whose nation was indeed considered in high regard by Iraqis in light of 1922.

Did I name a leader? No? thought not. I see that you love to twist things around. Yep. Just like I thought. A moron.

Oh, but wait. The quintissential line about "defending those pussies back home".

Care to point out where I said that or implied that?

Why on earth would I want to violate the autonomy of a state, or, for that matter, enroll into an establishment wherein I would be subject to danger? If one is willing to sacrifice oneself in the cause of Dollar Imperialism, one's intellect is questionable.

Just continue to insult them Chris because right now, your name is anything but blessed.

Of course - you could argue that anyone joining the military in the last half a decade, has been doing so to wage wars in other countries, and kill OTHER people's sons and daughters... since we are not currently under a state of 'home war'... thus 'defend' is irrelevent.
That's why I enlisted in the infantry through the mid-1980s to early 1990s.

That's why I enlisted in the infantry through the mid-1980s to early 1990s.

I'm not sure we were actually being invaded THEN, either... but the point I was making is that THIS 'war' situation has been ongoing for half a decade... there is no 'I didn't know' excuse.

Did I name a leader? No? thought not. I see that you love to twist things around. Yep. Just like I thought. A moron.



Care to point out where I said that or implied that?



Just continue to insult them Chris because right now, your name is anything but blessed.

You trapped out the frankly deflated line about how dare we deplore those who defend us. Well, quite honestly, they do nothing in my name, nor will the US ever do so. The USA, for the most part, revulses me.

Indeed, I merely responded to your insulting me, bad form incidentally sir, and refuted any association with the US forces, and pointed to quite how Britain has devolved through its alliance with you.

Finally, have you ever encountered a little entity called irony?

I'm not sure we were actually being invaded THEN, either... but the point I was making is that THIS 'war' situation has been ongoing for half a decade... there is no 'I didn't know' excuse.

Well, there's always a small percentage of people who join the military and hope that they never see combat. Not out of the normal sense of self-preservation, but out of a sense that they think of the Army as a jobs program.

You don't remember Panama, or the 1991 Gulf War?

Well, there's always a small percentage of people who join the military and hope that they never see combat. Not out of the normal sense of self-preservation, but out of a sense that they think of the Army as a jobs program.

You don't remember Panama, or the 1991 Gulf War?

Oddly, however, they were not defence really were they? Unless my geography is severely flawed:)

You trapped out the frankly deflated line about how dare we deplore those who defend us. Well, quite honestly, they do nothing in my name, nor will the US ever do so. The USA, for the most part, revulses me.

Indeed, I merely responded to your insulting me, bad form incidentally sir, and refuted any association with the US forces, and pointed to quite how Britain has devolved through its alliance with you.

Finally, have you ever encountered a little entity called irony?

Ironicly, we've been allies since after World War I and solidified during World War II. Ironicly, you had your own troubles with muslims for longer than we have. I guess you do not know your own history as well as you think you have so why don't you go study British History and learn a thing or two about what your nation has done in the Muslim world. That is, if you have the stomach to do so.

Oddly, however, they were not defence really were they? Unless my geography is severely flawed:)

Panama was more of a drug thing so yea, that could be considered defensive.

Well, there's always a small percentage of people who join the military and hope that they never see combat. Not out of the normal sense of self-preservation, but out of a sense that they think of the Army as a jobs program.

You don't remember Panama, or the 1991 Gulf War?Those were selfdefence?

Oddly, however, they were not defence really were they? Unless my geography is severely flawed:)
Defense of American interests abroad, but not technically defense of the home land.

I think that the US problem is that we call it the Defense Department. I get the impression that we were a little less adventurous back when it was called the Department of War. The meaning of "War" is pretty obvious, while "Defense" is more vague, and more likely to get you into trouble.

Ironicly, we've been allies since after World War I and solidified during World War II. Ironicly, you had your own troubles with muslims for longer than we have. I guess you do not know your own history as well as you think you have so why don't you go study British History and learn a thing or two about what your nation has done in the Muslim world. That is, if you have the stomach to do so.

Granted, our conduct in regard to Isreal and Palestine was not exemplary, and yes, we have had riots such as the Bradford riots, however terror has been the reserve of the IRA. Incidentally, did the IRA ever meet American contempt?

Another classic Corneliu attack I see then, attempting to deplore the poster's history knowledge, despite my having never asserted to be an expert in the field. However, I put this to you. When was the first act of Islamic terror in Britain?

When was the first act of Islamic terrorism in the US?

Defense of American interests abroad, but not technically defense of the home land.

I think that the US problem is that we call it the Defense Department. I get the impression that we were a little less adventurous back when it was called the Department of War. The meaning of "War" is pretty obvious, while "Defense" is more vague, and more likely to get you into trouble.

Indeed. The notion of a global defence, whilst being valid in the cold war, appears a little antiquated now though, given the nature of your enemy.

*snip*

It is because of Britain and their so called world domination (which they never truly conquered the world) that the west is despised by the eastern World. Don't forget about the French involvement in the Middle East as well.

It wasn't till after World War II did we become more involved in the Middle East. You and France have been involved since the crusades.

Indeed. The notion of a global defence, whilst being valid in the cold war, appears a little antiquated now though, given the nature of your enemy.
It would have to be more of a global war of espionage and assassination of decentralized terror network members, as opposed to large scale invasions of countries piecemeal.

It is because of Britain and their so called world domination (which they never truly conquered the world) that the west is despised by the eastern World. Don't forget about the French involvement in the Middle East as well.

It wasn't till after World War II did we become more involved in the Middle East. You and France have been involved since the crusades.

But we were never actually attacked, nor, for that matter, reviled. You, however, are.

But we were never actually attacked, nor, for that matter, reviled. You, however, are.

Never attacked uh? Explain the terror attacks in Israel and Palestine done by both the Jews AND the Muslims.

Well, there's always a small percentage of people who join the military and hope that they never see combat. Not out of the normal sense of self-preservation, but out of a sense that they think of the Army as a jobs program.

You don't remember Panama, or the 1991 Gulf War?

Who invaded us in 1991? As far as I knew, the Gulf War was mainly fought 'over there'...?

Who invaded us in 1991? As far as I knew, the Gulf War was mainly fought 'over there'...?
I think you missed my previous post about "defense of American interests" and the vague quality of the word "defense".

It is because of Britain and their so called world domination (which they never truly conquered the world) that the west is despised by the eastern World. Don't forget about the French involvement in the Middle East as well.


Interesting idea.

Of course, I'd like to see it supported... since most of the hostility seems very deliberately pointed at the US, specifically.

Interesting idea.

Of course, I'd like to see it supported... since most of the hostility seems very deliberately pointed at the US, specifically.

You do know what AQ's beef with us is right though it should be directed more at Saudi Arabia for the called us in and not the other way around.

As to support, you do know that Britain had this area right? France was just to the north right? You do know the history of the area right?

I think you missed my previous post about "defense of American interests" and the vague quality of the word "defense".

Not at all. I was responding, originally, to Corneliu's claims "I find it noble that they are willing to place their lives on the line to defend their nation"...

Clearly, 'their nation' is not at risk - and you can't expect much sympathy for the cause, when our 'cause' is 'defending' someone ELSE's oilfields that we happen to want.

You do know what AQ's beef with us is right though it should be directed more at Saudi Arabia for the called us in and not the other way around.


Al Qaeda's 'beef' with us, is our militaristic imperialism - just as it was with the Soviets. Saudi Arabia incited emnity for allowing us in, rather than favouring bin Ladin, during the first Gulf war.

What do you mean 'they called us in'? I was under the impression we were mobilising troops for a war.


As to support, you do know that Britain had this area right? France was just to the north right? You do know the history of the area right?

Mainly, our contentions were historically in areas like Egypt and Pakistan... both of which are, curiously, allies, now.

The only thing "dum" is your brazen assault upon the English language.

Not all people are as educated as you might be, but they have a lot more "couth" than you do. :mad:

Al Qaeda's 'beef' with us, is our militaristic imperialism - just as it was with the Soviets. Saudi Arabia incited emnity for allowing us in, rather than favouring bin Ladin, during the first Gulf war.

What do you mean 'they called us in'? I was under the impression we were mobilising troops for a war.



Mainly, our contentions were historically in areas like Egypt and Pakistan... both of which are, curiously, allies, now.

I guess you forgot that Saudi Arabia called the US in to protect it from Iraqi agression.

Unmitigated crap.

You trying to tell us it takes 'individual initiative' to file on queue?

Gee, have you ever been in the military? Or known anyone who was? I have two children who were both enlisted personnel in the navy. They were both petty officers, both served in Desert Storm. Both of my kids are known by their peers for initiative and individuality. I find your take on it insulting to the military and my children. Don't spout of about something about which you are so obviously ignorant.

I guess you forgot that Saudi Arabia called the US in to protect it from Iraqi agression.

You'd have to show me a source - from what I recall, we chose to place troops in Saudi Arabia and Turkey as staging posts, because they were about the only places that would let us.

As far as I recall - Al Qaeda HAD been offering support to Saudi Arabia, but withdrew the offer once the Saudi's allowed 'infidels' in the Holy Land.

It would have to be more of a global war of espionage and assassination of decentralized terror network members, as opposed to large scale invasions of countries piecemeal.

Uh huh.

Never attacked uh? Explain the terror attacks in Israel and Palestine done by both the Jews AND the Muslims.

Not domestic though, and certainly not directed at us purely for religious grounds, unlike those of 7/7.

Not domestic though, and certainly not directed at us purely for religious grounds, unlike those of 7/7.

NO it just happened abroad because they just didn't like you.

Gee, have you ever been in the military? Or known anyone who was? I have two children who were both enlisted personnel in the navy. They were both petty officers, both served in Desert Storm. Both of my kids are known by their peers for initiative and individuality. I find your take on it insulting to the military and my children. Don't spout of about something about which you are so obviously ignorant.

Of course, if their peers are mindless pawns... then "being known by their peers for initiative and individuality" wouldn't be much of a claim...

You do know what AQ's beef with us is right though it should be directed more at Saudi Arabia for the called us in and not the other way around.

As to support, you do know that Britain had this area right? France was just to the north right? You do know the history of the area right?

"Had" this area in waht sense, and when?

L of N mandates, well quite, but hardly in the modern era.

"Had" this area in waht sense, and when?

I guess you forgot that Britain CONQUERED this region? Yea I thought you might've forgotten that little tidbit.

I guess you forgot that Britain CONQUERED this region? Yea I thought you might've forgotten that little tidbit.

When precisely?

We certainly disabused the Ottoman empire of its provinces in 1919 or 1920, the precise date is irrelevant, however we were considered by Iraqi's to have liberated them from Ottoman rule for the most part.

I guess you forgot that Britain CONQUERED this region? Yea I thought you might've forgotten that little tidbit.

We are talking about an area where 'being conquered' is pretty much expected every few years. How is the British Empire relevent to THIS debate?

When precisely?

Forget it. It is apparent you know jack about your own nation's history. That's sad to see.

We are talking about an area where 'being conquered' is pretty much expected every few years. How is the British Empire relevent to THIS debate?

Use your Brain that God has given you.

Heading back onto the original topic....
Honey, nobody wins in war. Despite having many friends who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan and friends who have died in both places, I still support the war, and I support your amazing son. Saddam was a little Hitler, terrorizing and killing people based on their race/religion etc. It is a massive cleanup effort now, and I applaud your son for his good deeds. More than that, I applaud you for letting your son do what he felt was necessary.
Do not beat yourself up because you haven't much money and this was your son's 'out' as you put it.... Instead, be happy that he wants to *be* somebody. And be happy that when you're old and need some help, having such a fine, upstanding and wonderful son (who will, I am certain, arrive home safely) will certainly ease the burden.
All my love and support to you and your son!

Of course, if their peers are mindless pawns... then "being known by their peers for initiative and individuality" wouldn't be much of a claim...

I think you underestimate the military. Intelligence, the ability to make decisions under pressure, the ability to know and respond appropriately to an illegal order are all necessary to function well in the military. A level of scepticism concerning authority is also not discouraged. If you actually knew anyone serving in the military well, you would not have this opinion. The "mindless pawns" are the exception and not the rule.

Heading back onto the original topic....
Honey, nobody wins in war. Despite having many friends who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan and friends who have died in both places, I still support the war, and I support your amazing son. Saddam was a little Hitler, terrorizing and killing people based on their race/religion etc. It is a massive cleanup effort now, and I applaud your son for his good deeds. More than that, I applaud you for letting your son do what he felt was necessary.
Do not beat yourself up because you haven't much money and this was your son's 'out' as you put it.... Instead, be happy that he wants to *be* somebody. And be happy that when you're old and need some help, having such a fine, upstanding and wonderful son (who will, I am certain, arrive home safely) will certainly ease the burden.
All my love and support to you and your son!

A well said post.

Forget it. It is apparent you know jack about your own nation's history. That's sad to see.

Oh good lord no. Do elaborate. I will confess Imperial histroy is not my particular expertise at present, however we never actually conquered the middle east to my knowledge.

Use your Brain that God has given you.

I don't believe in your little god, as well you know.

If you have no argument.. just admit it - I won't think any less of you, but don't resort to this kind of hollow insulting technique.

It is not becoming.

Use your Brain that God has given you.

God, my dear fellow, neither gave him, nor you, anything, since he is a safety net for the insecure, and the justification of a moral code.

I think you underestimate the military. Intelligence, the ability to make decisions under pressure, the ability to know and respond appropriately to an illegal order are all necessary to function well in the military. A level of scepticism concerning authority is also not discouraged. If you actually knew anyone serving in the military well, you would not have this opinion. The "mindless pawns" are the exception and not the rule.

Rubbish.

I have close friends serving (or having served) in the militaries of two nations (US and UK), and family that serve/have served in the military.

You and I both know that the military RELIES on a principle of taking orders and shutting-the-hell-up.

Those were selfdefence?

Self defense of our oil and self defense for our government sanctioned CIA drug dealers, obviously.

Rubbish.

I have close friends serving (or having served) in the militaries of two nations (US and UK), and family that serve/have served in the military.

You and I both know that the military RELIES on a principle of taking orders and shutting-the-hell-up.

And yet....provided that the actions do not violate the UCMJ....then the commanders have free reign to pull off their orders any way they see fit.

And yet....provided that the actions do not violate the UCMJ....then the commanders have free reign to pull off their orders any way they see fit.

Again with the... huh?

Rubbish.

I have close friends serving (or having served) in the militaries of two nations (US and UK), and family that serve/have served in the military.

You and I both know that the military RELIES on a principle of taking orders and shutting-the-hell-up.

No, actually, you and I both don't know that. I know that the military can't function long unless they have intelligent personnel. Cannon fodder is not what is needed in the modern military. And following orders is not necessarily the act of a mindless puppet. If you have a civilian job, you follow orders or you don't keep your job, and in a civilian job you don't have the luxury of not following illegal orders, because in a civilian job there is no such thing as an illegal order.

No, actually, you and I both don't know that. I know that the military can't function long unless they have intelligent personnel. Cannon fodder is not what is needed in the modern military. And following orders is not necessarily the act of a mindless puppet. If you have a civilian job, you follow orders or you don't keep your job, and in a civilian job you don't have the luxury of not following illegal orders, because in a civilian job there is no such thing as an illegal order.

From the bizarre to the irrelevent, all in one post. I applaud you.

From the bizarre to the irrelevent, all in one post. I applaud you.

So you are going to ignore his point?

So you are going to ignore his point?

That civilans don't have illegal orders?

That civilans don't have illegal orders?

Define what an illegal order is in the civilian world.

Define what an illegal order is in the civilian world.

Why the hell would I be defending someone else's irrelevence?

It is not moronic to want to serve in your nation's military.
That's a value judgement, not a factual judgement Corneliu. Just FYI.

Gee, have you ever been in the military? Or known anyone who was? I have two children who were both enlisted personnel in the navy. They were both petty officers, both served in Desert Storm. Both of my kids are known by their peers for initiative and individuality. I find your take on it insulting to the military and my children. Don't spout of about something about which you are so obviously ignorant.
It's good that you 'find my take on it' to be insulting. It was intended as such. I couldn't give a monkey's turd whether your sainted mother was Patton. I'll stick to my original statement.

Don't like it? Well, until such time as conveying sentiments not in accordance with elevating career militarists over the rest of one's fellowmen becomes an indictable offense, tough-o. If this is the first time you've heard me 'spout off' on this or related subjects, well you'd better get used to it - as I have no regard whatever for subscribers to, or supporters of, state-sanctioned, taxpayer-funded hierarchical structures of what I would certainly describe as being of highly questionable social value.

I hope your son doesn't hurt anyone.

Unmitigated crap.

You trying to tell us it takes 'individual initiative' to file on queue?
No. I fuckin' lied. All we are is fuckin' mindless robots, you asshole.

It's good that you 'find my take on it' to be insulting. It was intended as such. I couldn't give a monkey's turd whether your sainted mother was Patton. I'll stick to my original statement.

Don't like it? Well, until such time as conveying sentiments not in accordance with elevating career militarists over the rest of one's fellowmen becomes an indictable offense, tough-o. If this is the first time you've heard me 'spout off' on this or related subjects, well you'd better get used to it - as I have no regard whatever for subscribers to, or supporters of, state-sanctioned, taxpayer-funded hierarchical structures of what I would certainly describe as being of highly questionable social value.
Fuck you, and your "social value," and the horses ass you both rode in on.

My advice to you is to stop insulting my nation's troops. It is not moronic to want to serve in your nation's military. I find it noble that they are willing to place their lives on the line to defend their nation and to keep morons like you free to type this kind of crap.


Here's something for ya EUT.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/14818103936.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/14817490913.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/14818100131.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/14818085253.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/14818053546.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/14817565588.jpg&s=f5

"Morons like you"? Said moron whose nation had no problem with Islamic fundamentalism until jug ears followed Dubya into Iraq? Said moron whose nation was indeed considered in high regard by Iraqis in light of 1922.

Oh, but wait. The quintissential line about "defending those pussies back home". Why on earth would I want to violate the autonomy of a state, or, for that matter, enroll into an establishment wherein I would be subject to danger? If one is willing to sacrifice oneself in the cause of Dollar Imperialism, one's intellect is questionable.

IIRC we were fine with it as long as it left us alone. When it didn't, previously, we'd launch a few missiles, drop a few bombs, etc. That didn't work, so we're really pissed now so we'll go after them mano-en-mano. had they not attacked us on 9/11 they probably would have stood a much greater chance of accomplishing their global sharia BS.

Rubbish.

I have close friends serving (or having served) in the militaries of two nations (US and UK), and family that serve/have served in the military.

You and I both know that the military RELIES on a principle of taking orders and shutting-the-hell-up.

No, actually, you and I both don't know that. I know that the military can't function long unless they have intelligent personnel. Cannon fodder is not what is needed in the modern military. And following orders is not necessarily the act of a mindless puppet. If you have a civilian job, you follow orders or you don't keep your job, and in a civilian job you don't have the luxury of not following illegal orders, because in a civilian job there is no such thing as an illegal order.

ORders are orders-you follow them whether you like them or not.

I know a guy who is at home now who was a marine near the syrian border back when four Jarheads were killed by Sheet heads operating on both sides of the border. They were stationed up about 2 or 3 miles away and they could see the firefight going on but they were told to hold on to the position and stay put. They could hear them over the radio...it was tough not to abandon the post and go charging in to help them. The brass had them sit there so they could keep the Sheet heads from escaping. USAF came in and bombed them to peices, ending it.

I've got a pic from it too...

No. I fuckin' lied. All we are is fuckin' mindless robots, you asshole.

Easy eut...dobbsey pisses me off too man, ain't worth swearin' over.

Rubbish.

I have close friends serving (or having served) in the militaries of two nations (US and UK), and family that serve/have served in the military.

You and I both know that the military RELIES on a principle of taking orders and shutting-the-hell-up.
Perhaps the "military" YOU know does, but not the one I spent some 34 years in. There are a number of principles upon which the military relies and "taking orders and shtting-the-hell-up" is not one of them. Indeed, one of the most imporant lessons for any commander is to learn that his men and their initiative and creativity are among his most important assets.

The effective commander encourages comments and critiques of his proposed courses of action, right up to the point in time where he or she makes a decision. At that point, all debate ceases and the decision then becomes the decision of the entire unit, regardless of level.

In the event some in the unit believe with good reason such order to be illegal, it is their responsibility to oppose it and if needed disobey it.

Define what an illegal order is in the civilian world.
A directive to commit some act which is illegal. Period.

And yet....provided that the actions do not violate the UCMJ....then the commanders have free reign to pull off their orders any way they see fit.
Almost every order must be "interpreted" by those lower in the chain of command who have to implement it. It's virtually impossible to draft an order which will cover all contingencies. Part of why the American military is so effective is that we emphasize individual initiative and adaptation to changing circumstances at every level. Sometimes following an order to the letter can lead to disaster, particularly if the circumstances have radically changed at the operating level. That is where interpretation of oders and individual initiative come in.

There were numerous times during almost every conflict in which America has been involved when the only thing that saved the day was the initiative of the individual combat soldier.

From the bizarre to the irrelevent, all in one post. I applaud you.
It's neiter bizarre nor irrelevant. You are either being disengenuous or deliberately trying to obfuscate the issue.

That's a value judgement, not a factual judgement Corneliu. Just FYI.
And just FYI, everything I have seen you post in this thread represents a value judgment. Pot, meet kettle.

Eut what branch of the mil were you in? Wasn't it navy?

Eut what branch of the mil were you in? Wasn't it navy?
FRACK NO! I weren't no squid! Army, all the way: airborne, special ops, counterinsurgency ops, mech infantry, etc.

Here's something for ya EUT.

I'm not Eut :D

Perhaps the "military" YOU know does, but not the one I spent some 34 years in. There are a number of principles upon which the military relies and "taking orders and shtting-the-hell-up" is not one of them. Indeed, one of the most imporant lessons for any commander is to learn that his men and their initiative and creativity are among his most important assets.

The effective commander encourages comments and critiques of his proposed courses of action, right up to the point in time where he or she makes a decision. At that point, all debate ceases and the decision then becomes the decision of the entire unit, regardless of level.

In the event some in the unit believe with good reason such order to be illegal, it is their responsibility to oppose it and if needed disobey it.

The American bombing of Cambodia was begun without the knowledge or approval of the US congress. Not only that, but the crews willing went through debriefs reporting that they had been over South Vietnam. Please explain

I'm not Eut :D
A fact of which I am sure BOTH of us are glad! :p :D

FRACK NO! I weren't no squid! Army, all the way: airborne, special ops, counterinsurgency ops, mech infantry, etc.

And if it wasnt for that Hippy, you'd have taken back the North for Democracy and baby jesus...

The American bombing of Cambodia was begun without the knowledge or approval of the US congress. Not only that, but the crews willing went through debriefs reporting that they had been over South Vietnam. Please explain
How can I explain that? I was Army, not Air Force, and I wasn't there when the briefings or debriefings were held. :confused:

And if it wasnt for that Hippy, you'd have taken back the North for Democracy and baby jesus...
Very funny. Ha. Ha. You're a regular laugh riot, you are. :rolleyes:

A fact of which I am sure BOTH of us are glad! :p :D

LOL! Most definitely since I piss on the Army :D

J/king :D

Gotta love interservice rivalry :)

LOL! Most definitely since I piss on the Army :D

J/king :D

Gotta love interservice rivalry :)
LMAO! Yeah, just as long as you guys don't forget to support the REAL military ... the guys on the ground who have to actually, you know ... like ... fight? :D

Your son, and apparently your father and grandfather, enjoy killing people for a living.

That's what armies do. They kill people and take over land for their nations. It doesn't really matter how you justify what you are doing-wether it's "freeing a nation from an oppressive regime" or "Woo hoo, I can get lots of money and oil from invading this country!" The simple fact is that the soldiers in armies use guns that shoot bullets that kill people-sometiems cold-hearted killers and sometimes innocent civilians-and these soldiers get paid to do such things. Not right or wrong, just a fact.

I don't support the troops of the current war and I certianly don't support our leaders, and in only very rare cases would I ever support the troops or the leaders; mabey 60 years ago in WWII, but not now. If we are attacked, then we have the right to respond; otherwise, we should stay put. Afganistan? Fine. Iraq? No.

I'm not cheering for anyone's death, but I think we could solve much of the world's problems if we used fucking diplomicy instead of gearing up and going to war. It's simpler, cost effective, and peaceful.

LMAO! Yeah, just as long as you guys don't forget to support the REAL military ... the guys on the ground who have to actually, you know ... like ... fight? :D

Hey hey. If it wasn't for the Air force, you wouldn't have the transportation by air. You would instead have to do it by sea with the *cringes* navy. Not to mention, the Air Force gives you the air support needed to accomplish your missions. Hell..it was the Air Force that took care of Zarqawi :D

FRACK NO! I weren't no squid! Army, all the way: airborne, special ops, counterinsurgency ops, mech infantry, etc.

Whoops, sorry for offending you.

Airborne-too scared to jump and too lazy to walk. :p


I'm not Eut :D

I get you guys confused..... M'bad.

As penance I will post a military picture thread for you guys. I so solly.

How can I explain that? I was Army, not Air Force, and I wasn't there when the briefings or debriefings were held. :confused:

A rather pathetic attempt to dodge the question. Members of the US military carried out attacks without any congressional authority. They actively and knowingly colloborated with this clearly illegal activity over a long period of time. You stated


Perhaps the "military" YOU know does, but not the one I spent some 34 years in. There are a number of principles upon which the military relies and "taking orders and shtting-the-hell-up" is not one of them. yet this is precisely what they did. For four years. The full truth only came out after the bombings had stopped, during the post-Watergate investigations.

And should you again use the "I wasn't in the Air Force" dodge, I might remind you that a number of bombings were witnessed by (and one actually struck) special forces inside Cambodia.

Your son, and apparently your father and grandfather, enjoy killing people for a living.

Ask any soldier if they enjoy killing people. I dare you.

I'm not cheering for anyone's death, but I think we could solve much of the world's problems if we used fucking diplomicy instead of gearing up and going to war. It's simpler, cost effective, and peaceful.

1) Is Diplomacy.

2) to borrow a quote from a song... "pray for peace, prepare for war" why? What if Diplomacy fails?

Hey hey. If it wasn't for the Air force, you wouldn't have the transportation by air. You would instead have to do it by sea with the *cringes* navy. Not to mention, the Air Force gives you the air support needed to accomplish your missions. Hell..it was the Air Force that took care of Zarqawi :D
True, true. I love that damned ugly Warthog! Close air support iz da shit! :D

2) to borrow a quote from a song... "pray for peace, prepare for war" why? What if Diplomacy fails?

Go ahead and fight.

Not what we really did in Iraq, though. We didn't really attempt to even utilize diplomacy.

The American bombing of Cambodia was begun without the knowledge or approval of the US congress. Not only that, but the crews willing went through debriefs reporting that they had been over South Vietnam. Please explain

You do know that was air and not ground right? What would he know of this?

Go ahead and fight.

Not what we really did in Iraq, though. We didn't really attempt to even utilize diplomacy.

I think we had like ummm.....12 years of diplomacy that ummm failed? Yea that's right.

True, true. I love that damned ugly Warthog! Close air support iz da shit! :D

Amen.

Well dinner time :)

A rather pathetic attempt to dodge the question. Members of the US military carried out attacks without any congressional authority. They actively and knowingly colloborated with this clearly illegal activity over a long period of time. You stated

yet this is precisely what they did. For four years. The full truth only came out after the bombings had stopped, during the post-Watergate investigations.

And should you again use the "I wasn't in the Air Force" dodge, I might remind you that a number of bombings were witnessed by (and one actually struck) special forces inside Cambodia.
How can you "remind" me of someting about which I was unaware? If the attacks were carried out in contravention of the rules of engagement, those who ordered the attacks and those who carried them out should be Court Martialed. How is that "dodging the question?"

Your son, and apparently your father and grandfather, enjoy killing people for a living.

That's what armies do. They kill people and take over land for their nations. It doesn't really matter how you justify what you are doing-wether it's "freeing a nation from an oppressive regime" or "Woo hoo, I can get lots of money and oil from invading this country!" The simple fact is that the soldiers in armies use guns that shoot bullets that kill people-sometiems cold-hearted killers and sometimes innocent civilians-and these soldiers get paid to do such things. Not right or wrong, just a fact.

I don't support the troops of the current war and I certianly don't support our leaders, and in only very rare cases would I ever support the troops or the leaders; mabey 60 years ago in WWII, but not now. If we are attacked, then we have the right to respond; otherwise, we should stay put. Afganistan? Fine. Iraq? No.

I'm not cheering for anyone's death, but I think we could solve much of the world's problems if we used fucking diplomicy instead of gearing up and going to war. It's simpler, cost effective, and peaceful.
"Fucking" diplomacy? Hmm. Sounds like something I might enjoy. :D

Ahh, the hell wid it. Kill 'em all and let Allah sort 'em out! :D

Your son, and apparently your father and grandfather, enjoy killing people for a living.

I assume you've heard the phrase "It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it."

I hate war, but I'll be damned if I'll point my venom at kids who merely have a job to do doing what they believe is right.

How can you "remind" me of someting about which I was unaware? If the attacks were carried out in contravention of the rules of engagement, those who ordered the attacks and those who carried them out should be Court Martialed. How is that "dodging the question?"


This is the sentence

There are a number of principles upon which the military relies and "taking orders and shtting-the-hell-up" is not one of them.?"

Yet here we have a case of large numbers of military taking orders (illegal orders) and carrying them out. In the highly unlikely event that they didn't know what they were doing was illegal, they then had to falsify the various reports required after their return. Its therefore safe to say that "taking orders and shtting-the-hell-up" is at least occassionally a principle on which the military relies.

I assume you've heard the phrase "It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it."

I hate war, but I'll be damned if I'll point my venom at kids who merely have a job to do doing what they believe is right.

I'm not insulting them; simply stating that I don't agree with what they are doing.

Anyone who has a job that includes the risk of being either shot in the face or being blown up by a huge bomb isn't, in my opinion, as smart as some people give them credit for.

And just FYI, everything I have seen you post in this thread represents a value judgment. Pot, meet kettle.
Difference being, I don't attempt to pass off a value judgement as a factual judgement, unlike some on this thread. Anything else, or we done yet?

Your son, and apparently your father and grandfather, enjoy killing people for a living.

That's what armies do. They kill people and take over land for their nations. It doesn't really matter how you justify what you are doing-wether it's "freeing a nation from an oppressive regime" or "Woo hoo, I can get lots of money and oil from invading this country!" The simple fact is that the soldiers in armies use guns that shoot bullets that kill people-sometiems cold-hearted killers and sometimes innocent civilians-and these soldiers get paid to do such things. Not right or wrong, just a fact.

I don't support the troops of the current war and I certianly don't support our leaders, and in only very rare cases would I ever support the troops or the leaders; mabey 60 years ago in WWII, but not now. If we are attacked, then we have the right to respond; otherwise, we should stay put. Afganistan? Fine. Iraq? No.

I'm not cheering for anyone's death, but I think we could solve much of the world's problems if we used fucking diplomicy instead of gearing up and going to war. It's simpler, cost effective, and peaceful.

I think Bush used too much diplomacy given that saddam would rather use his guys as cannon fodder to buy time for him to run. He should have just skipped the inspections and invaded right off because you KNOW that with saddam's past history he's going to use the inspections to stall for time.

I'm always cheering the the death of the bad guy. Always. Whether he be foreign, IE Zarqawi/bin laden/ insurgents, or domestic.

Our survival depends on our ability to drive home the point "STOP ATTACKING US! LEAVE US ALONE!" via force. Diplomacy don't work for jack once the shooting starts.

Ask any soldier if they enjoy killing people. I dare you.



1) Is Diplomacy.

2) to borrow a quote from a song... "pray for peace, prepare for war" why? What if Diplomacy fails?

Prepare for war, Kill for peace.

"Fucking" diplomacy? Hmm. Sounds like something I might enjoy. :D

Ahh, the hell wid it. Kill 'em all and let Allah sort 'em out! :D

:fluffle: Alas! A man after my own heart!

I assume you've heard the phrase "It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it."

I hate war, but I'll be damned if I'll point my venom at kids who merely have a job to do doing what they believe is right.

+1 GP

Alas! A man after my own heart!
Ah, so you don't mind the killing of innocent people either. Nice to know.

I think Bush used too much diplomacy given that saddam would rather use his guys as cannon fodder to buy time for him to run. He should have just skipped the inspections and invaded right off because you KNOW that with saddam's past history he's going to use the inspections to stall for time.

I'm always cheering the the death of the bad guy. Always. Whether he be foreign, IE Zarqawi/bin laden/ insurgents, or domestic.

Our survival depends on our ability to drive home the point "STOP ATTACKING US! LEAVE US ALONE!" via force. Diplomacy don't work for jack once the shooting starts.

And what constitutes "Good Guy" and "Bad Guy?" Surely it's simply a matter of perspective. Indeed, what even seperates the "Good" from the "Bad?" Conflicting goals and objectives, a divine or moral right, or perhaps a general feeling of 'Superiourity?" The way I see it, there is no "good or bad", just different groups of people trying to push their own agendas and serving their own purposes.

Now to go on subject: Shouldn't the first Bush have taken Saddam out of power so we could have avoided all this Iraq War mess?

I am proud of your son. I hope he comes back safe and sound and with at least a few enemy kills. As soon as fighting broke out Itried to join the military but I was too unhealthy. I would trade places with your son too if I could. He is serving in one of the most noble wars in the history of mankind.

It's old, but oddly still applicable. I'll betcha Eut remembers this one:

Kill For Peace (by the Fugs)

Kill, kill, kill for peace!
Kill, kill, kill for peace!
Near or middle or very far east
Far or near or very middle east
Kill, kill, kill for peace!

If you don't like the people
or the way that they talk
If you don't like their manners
or they way that they walk,
Kill, kill, kill for peace!
Kill, kill, kill for peace!

If you don't kill them
then the Chinese will
If you don't want America
to play second fiddle,
Kill, kill, kill for peace!
Kill, kill, kill for peace!

If you let them live
they might support the Russians
If you let them live
they might love the Russians
Kill, kill, kill for peace!
Kill, kill, kill for peace!

Kill 'em, kill 'em, strafe those gook creeps!

The only gook an
American can trust
Is a gook that's got
his yellow head bust.
Kill, kill, kill for peace!
Kill, kill, kill for peace!

Kill, kill, it'll
feel so good,
like my captain
said it should
Kill, kill, kill for peace!
Kill, kill, kill for peace!

Kill it will give
you a mental ease
kill it will give
you a big release
Kill, kill, kill for peace!
Kill, kill, kill for peace!

He is serving in one of the most noble wars in the history of mankind.
Oh please... :rolleyes:

I wanted to see exotic Vietnam... the crown jewel of Southeast Asia. I wanted to meet interesting and stimulating people of an ancient culture... and kill them. I wanted to be the first kid on my block to get a confirmed kill!

America hasn't been hijacked, although this thread has been.

I wish your son the best, and I hope he returns home safely!

I'm not insulting them; simply stating that I don't agree with what they are doing.

Anyone who has a job that includes the risk of being either shot in the face or being blown up by a huge bomb isn't, in my opinion, as smart as some people give them credit for.

So you think being a police officer is being dumb? After all, they have the risk of being shot or blown up.

So you think being a police officer is being dumb? After all, they have the risk of being shot or blown up.

Good counterpoint. Police officers do indeed risk their lives; as do firefighters and several other groups of people. Police officers protect people, however, and only use leathal force if absolutely nessesary. Soldiers are made and trained to kill, and they do so quite well.

Which is probably why we need more Iraqi policemen in Iraq rather than American soldiers.

Good counterpoint. Police officers do indeed risk their lives; as do firefighters and several other groups of people. Police officers protect people, however, and only use leathal force if absolutely nessesary. Soldiers are made and trained to kill, and they do so quite well.

Which is probably why we need more Iraqi policemen in Iraq rather than American soldiers.

One could argue soldiers protect people too. And policemen usually don't have tanks and assault rifles, which is handy in countering heavily armed insurgents.

You are a bastard, Rotovia. No one deemed you police of the English language, and to question the authenticity of the poster is absurd, because there is a decent chance his post is authentic -- you even admitted so. Bastard. And you didn't need to feign compassion; at least don't pile on with your useless grammatical criticism. F***ing bastard, puking in your face would be too good for your kind.

To the original poster, none of us are perfect, and the overwhelming chances are, your son will return from Iraq unharmed. Godspeed.

thank you and thanks to everyone that had kind words for me.

i was a bit upset last night,as i have been a single parent for quite some time,and like any parent..my kids are my life.

some say why didn't i not stop him...well then you probably dont have kids,cause when they are 18 they can pretty much do what they like.all you can do as a parent is advise them.

someone also,that also had kind words,correctly pointed out that america was not hijacked..and that my choices and my sons were ours...that is true.
so i do retract that statement,i am and always was against the war in iraq,yet we are there,and we cant leave now...so i just hope everyone supports the kids over there,living with a horrid situation.
i will stand by the fact that all the warmongers are always rich ass's that rarely served in combat...and by and large their children never get in the mud.

as far as rotovia...if he/she wants to be the grammer nazi...whatever.

i was a bit miffed that he or she would 1.insult me by calling me a liar about my kid going away,or insinuating that he did not exist!
2.if rotavia was so bemused by my situation(or lack of)then rotavia should have just refrained from responding to my post

i was having a very hard time,as i am very close to my kids,and i guess i was fishing for some shoulders to cry on,as i am 2 hours from all my friends and family.

i'll try not to seek compassion or a shoulder again..sorry

dont give rotavia a hard time on my account,i could really care less if that is the depth of her opinion..my grammer..or the fact that he/she doesnt believe i have a son in the army..oh well.

thanks to everyone for at least giving me a little support in a very trying time for me...it's either getting it off my chest or massive doses of captain morgan..lol

Good counterpoint. Police officers do indeed risk their lives; as do firefighters and several other groups of people. Police officers protect people, however, and only use leathal force if absolutely nessesary. Soldiers are made and trained to kill, and they do so quite well.

Which is probably why we need more Iraqi policemen in Iraq rather than American soldiers.

And yet policemen are graduating for duty. However, you stated that "Anyone who has a job that includes the risk of being either shot in the face or being blown up by a huge bomb isn't, in my opinion, as smart as some people give them credit for."

By this logic, then those who sign up for police duty aren't as smart as some people given them credit according to you.

Secret aj man,

I know what it is like to have loved ones overseas. If you ever need to chat, you can IM or email me. Either one works. I am at your service.

Ah, so you don't mind the killing of innocent people either. Nice to know.

Innocent is a very murky and gray term when fighting an insurgency. However, I don't like killing innocent. However, the job must be done.

And what constitutes "Good Guy" and "Bad Guy?" Surely it's simply a matter of perspective. Indeed, what even seperates the "Good" from the "Bad?" Conflicting goals and objectives, a divine or moral right, or perhaps a general feeling of 'Superiourity?" The way I see it, there is no "good or bad", just different groups of people trying to push their own agendas and serving their own purposes.

Now to go on subject: Shouldn't the first Bush have taken Saddam out of power so we could have avoided all this Iraq War mess?

Yes, Bush should have. I have no clue WHY he didn't. Because of his FUBAR we now have OIFII, the inspections nightmare, etc.

Are you telling me you can't pick out a good guy from a badguy? WTF?

Bad-Insurgent. Terrorist. Bin Laden. Johnny walker lindh. Esquire magazine

Good-Marines. Iraqis. Soldiers. Iraqi police. Tickle me elmo. Cookie monster.




I dropped that bastard on his knees
As he said don't shoot don't shoot oh please please
Now I inserted a mag loaded with 5.56,
I told him i'm tired of messin around w/ these insurgent tricks,
So I charged the rifle and switched to fire
To kill an insurgent is every marine's desire
So aimed nice and steady at point blank range
After killing 1000 sheet heads it doesn't feel so strange
I squeezed the trigger and started to grin
As soon as he dropped I poured a shot of gin
With a toast to a kill he wasn't a civilian
Just another terrorist hiding like a chameleon

Had to clean it up some, this IS NS forum after all. Had to make it more PC.

I feel for you...my nephew is doing convoy security...as a volunteer...and my cousins are Marines trying to train iraqis to fight for themselves when they are not in Afghanistan humping all over the mountains looking for Al Queda and taliban .

My son leaves in six months...my brother in law comes back at the same time after 3 tours...they wont let him stay unyil he " decompresses" a bit he wants to go back and finsh the job .

God bless all of them . Every man and women who are doing the things we cant do . I wish them all a safe return and a good life . I love them all .

may god bless you and yours!

all i can say it is difficult to see loved ones go away,and to sit helpless.

you have my prayers and thoughts,as does your family that is serving.

all i can say it is difficult to see loved ones go away,and to sit helpless.

Ain't this the sad and sorry truth :(. I remember the endless nights of worrying about Dad when he was always in or near a combat zone.

Here's a tip. There are many conservatives who are fighting in this war. Keep that in mind before you make a flippent remark like this one.

first..thanks for your kind words...and second...your right,that did not come across correctly as i am technically a consevative(libertarian really)

i meant i suppose...the conservatives that are not really conservative in the true sense..but money whores and quick to commit others lives when they would never dare to sacrifice.

it's my fault,i should have never brought it up(politics),as it was not meant to be political,just a feeble attempt at trying to find someones shoulder to cry on.

first..thanks for your kind words...and second...your right,that did not come across correctly as i am technically a consevative(libertarian really)

i meant i suppose...the conservatives that are not really conservative in the true sense..but money whores and quick to commit others lives when they would never dare to sacrifice.

it's my fault,i should have never brought it up(politics),as it was not meant to be political,just a feeble attempt at trying to find someones shoulder to cry on.

Well you can always use my shoulder to cry on. I know what it is like to have a loved one in battle. I support everyone who has loved ones in the service wether they agree with it or not just like I support the troops who are there. If you ever need to talk, feel free to IM me. If you need my screenname, I'll happily give it to you.

Are you telling me you can't pick out a good guy from a badguy? WTF?

Bad-Insurgent. Terrorist. Bin Laden. Johnny walker lindh. Esquire magazine

Good-Marines. Iraqis. Soldiers. Iraqi police. Tickle me elmo. Cookie monster.

That's sort of like saying "The 7th Calvary were good guys, and the Indians were bad guys." America is not always the good guy, and I don't belive we are the "Good guy" in the Iraq war. Actually, I'm not even sure if there are any good guys in the Iraq war.

And didn't Cookie Monster get his named changed to Veggie Monster or something for health reasons?

Ain't this the sad and sorry truth :(. I remember the endless nights of worrying about Dad when he was always in or near a combat zone.

It's tough, I know.

Here's something I dug up on this-worry:

Matthew 6:34

"Take therefore no thought for the morrow; for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itsefl, sufficient untio the day is the evil thereof"

Words that Christ himself spoke. Summary: Don't worry-things will happen as they happen. God is in control.

Matthew 28:20 And Lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. A'-men.

Heading back onto the original topic....
Honey, nobody wins in war. Despite having many friends who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan and friends who have died in both places, I still support the war, and I support your amazing son. Saddam was a little Hitler, terrorizing and killing people based on their race/religion etc. It is a massive cleanup effort now, and I applaud your son for his good deeds. More than that, I applaud you for letting your son do what he felt was necessary.
Do not beat yourself up because you haven't much money and this was your son's 'out' as you put it.... Instead, be happy that he wants to *be* somebody. And be happy that when you're old and need some help, having such a fine, upstanding and wonderful son (who will, I am certain, arrive home safely) will certainly ease the burden.
All my love and support to you and your son!


wow...can i hug you!

thank you....soooo much.

he is an outstanding young man,and i am proud of him beyond words.

i am sorry for any losses you may have suffered.

Panama was more of a drug thing so yea, that could be considered defensive.

During the 1980's Special Operations Forces (SOF) were present and fighting small scale "commando" wars in El Salvador, Haiti, Panama, and othe latin America Countries. In Panama, we were defending ourselves, the Panama canal was in danger of being taken over, and rebel forces had surrounded and kidnapped 20 or 30 American students.

And yes people join the military to defend their country, it just happends that we have not had to defend our homeland from invasion for awhile. But our soldiers stand ready to defend the US if we were attacked, just because they are fighting in what SOME consider to be an illegal and pointless war, doesnt mean they would not, or did not join to defend their nation. Aside from a few, many on this forum do not understand the military, or why people join. They think all soldiers are idiots. Of course some soldiers are idiots, but then again there are bound to be a few idiots in a system with over a million people in it. There are MANY people in the military who are a hell of a lot smarter than the average nerd on this forum.

Hope your kid comes back safe, and he made a good choice joining the military, if he wants to, he can really make a great life out of it, just has to stick with it, and BTW, stop telling your kid he made a bad decision, he made a decision that millions of other people have made, the decision to answer the call of duty that is inside of all of us (some more than others).

What is your sons outfit?

Your son, and apparently your father and grandfather, enjoy killing people for a living.

That's what armies do. They kill people and take over land for their nations. It doesn't really matter how you justify what you are doing-wether it's "freeing a nation from an oppressive regime" or "Woo hoo, I can get lots of money and oil from invading this country!" The simple fact is that the soldiers in armies use guns that shoot bullets that kill people-sometiems cold-hearted killers and sometimes innocent civilians-and these soldiers get paid to do such things. Not right or wrong, just a fact.

I don't support the troops of the current war and I certianly don't support our leaders, and in only very rare cases would I ever support the troops or the leaders; mabey 60 years ago in WWII, but not now. If we are attacked, then we have the right to respond; otherwise, we should stay put. Afganistan? Fine. Iraq? No.

I'm not cheering for anyone's death, but I think we could solve much of the world's problems if we used fucking diplomicy instead of gearing up and going to war. It's simpler, cost effective, and peaceful.


i am glad i read thru your whole post,as i was gonna argue with you.

i think afghanistan is/was justified,iraq..no...maybe?

ww2..absolutely

never forget..for evil to triumph..good men must stand by and do nothing.
that negates your argument that all soldiers are killers..and fyi...my killer dad was in korea..and my killer grandfather was in ww1 in the ardennes...both of which were fought by the us for oil or land conquest?

i could probably point out that my father was also a deacon after my mom died...and that my son would not hurt a fly..but you seem to have your mind made up.

think of it this way(about my kid)
say you have a swingset in the back yard,and it has a wasp's nest in it...and everytime your little sister goes out..she gets attacked and stung!
well were i come from..big brother goes and kills the damn wasps!
do the wasps have a right to be there?probably...does my daughter that is getting stung care..no..will my son protect my daughter from the wasps...um..yea!

we are mired in the middle east for many reasons..the least of which is the uk and france's meddling..like southeast asia...and for our own interest's..but the fact is..if they did not attack us...we would not be there...putting aside the fact the most of the hatred stems from their blind hatred of israel.

they are now wasps to the us...and they will be killed so as not to sting our people....sucks for them,and sucks for our soldiers..but the fact is..if they chilled out..we would also.

that much i believe....
and puhleese dont bring up oil...we could just take it and no one would say shit..well they would talk..but do anything..never..just like the euros did nothing in africa,bosnia...anywhere..all talk....no action..they let us do it,then criticise...real stand up!

i am glad i read thru your whole post,as i was gonna argue with you.

i think afghanistan is/was justified,iraq..no...maybe?

ww2..absolutely

never forget..for evil to triumph..good men must stand by and do nothing.
that negates your argument that all soldiers are killers..and fyi...my killer dad was in korea..and my killer grandfather was in ww1 in the ardennes...both of which were fought by the us for oil or land conquest?

i could probably point out that my father was also a deacon after my mom died...and that my son would not hurt a fly..but you seem to have your mind made up.

think of it this way(about my kid)
say you have a swingset in the back yard,and it has a wasp's nest in it...and everytime your little sister goes out..she gets attacked and stung!
well were i come from..big brother goes and kills the damn wasps!
do the wasps have a right to be there?probably...does my daughter that is getting stung care..no..will my son protect my daughter from the wasps...um..yea!

we are mired in the middle east for many reasons..the least of which is the uk and france's meddling..like southeast asia...and for our own interest's..but the fact is..if they did not attack us...we would not be there...putting aside the fact the most of the hatred stems from their blind hatred of israel.

they are now wasps to the us...and they will be killed so as not to sting our people....sucks for them,and sucks for our soldiers..but the fact is..if they chilled out..we would also.

that much i believe....
and puhleese dont bring up oil...we could just take it and no one would say shit..well they would talk..but do anything..never..just like the euros did nothing in africa,bosnia...anywhere..all talk....no action..they let us do it,then criticise...real stand up!

Well said Secret. I like the wasp analogy :)

Good luck to your kid (not that he will need it, im sure he is a great soldier)


what is his unti?

Cabbage Patch Girl


Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: My Head
Posts: 3,315
Your son, and apparently your father and grandfather, enjoy killing people for a living.


oh,
forgot to point out that my dad and grand dad that "enjoyed" killing were conscripts.

wonder what you would do if you were conscripted..handed a rifle..and then had people trying to blow off your head...what exactly would you do?


try to talk to the guy about to blast you into oblivion?hide like a bitch and let your friends get killed..or man the hell up and survive?

During the 1980's Special Operations Forces (SOF) were present and fighting small scale "commando" wars in El Salvador, Haiti, Panama, and othe latin America Countries. In Panama, we were defending ourselves, the Panama canal was in danger of being taken over, and rebel forces had surrounded and kidnapped 20 or 30 American students.

And yes people join the military to defend their country, it just happends that we have not had to defend our homeland from invasion for awhile. But our soldiers stand ready to defend the US if we were attacked, just because they are fighting in what SOME consider to be an illegal and pointless war, doesnt mean they would not, or did not join to defend their nation. Aside from a few, many on this forum do not understand the military, or why people join. They think all soldiers are idiots. Of course some soldiers are idiots, but then again there are bound to be a few idiots in a system with over a million people in it. There are MANY people in the military who are a hell of a lot smarter than the average nerd on this forum.

Hope your kid comes back safe, and he made a good choice joining the military, if he wants to, he can really make a great life out of it, just has to stick with it, and BTW, stop telling your kid he made a bad decision, he made a decision that millions of other people have made, the decision to answer the call of duty that is inside of all of us (some more than others).

What is your sons outfit?


thank you for your service to our country,and god bless you.

i never told him he was making a bad decision,the contrary...he has my support 100%
i disagree with the war,at least the ground part of it,we could have tactically bombed saddam into submission...but i digress.

he is 100% a team guy,the military is a perfect fit for him,he is humble and honest and hardworking.
i only wish i could be there with him,but alas,they wont take me(got in to much trouble)but i am actually a pretty decent fellow.

i dont know what outfit he is in yet,he is down at ft.benning,and his mos is 11 bravo..infantry i think.

i really wanted to serve,so you are right,there is an inate need in almost all people to want to protect their own..i even wrote to the vice president to see if he could get me a waivor..but alas..they rejected me.

i made poor decisions when i was young,so i get to sit here and worry...for god knows how long.

but i am proud of him,proud of all our boys!

Good example with the wasps,, Secret aj man. Except wasps are not human beings. They are insects. The citizens and fighters in Iraq are people, not bugs. Insects act on instinct; people don't.

What you don't realize is that circumstances today are entirely different from the first world war and Korea. We are not fighting an 'Evil Enemy.' No communism, no nazis, no Germans, no Reds. Iraq has never been a direct threat to us. Was Saddam a brutal dictator? Yes. So are the leaders of Iran, China, much of Africa, many places in the Middle East, and North Korea. Yet we go after Iraq-a backwater place that is not a threat. Last I checked, the Nation of Iraq never attacked the United States of America.

No, America does not have the right to "Swat" any nation that "might be" a threat to our Security. On a playground, that would be called "Bullying."

If we should "Kill whoever can sting us," then why not kill Mexicans? They are, after all, taking jobs and draining the American Economy; this is without a doubt a hurtful sting.

Here's an interesting example:Why are the original Americans who overthrew British rule considered heros? Given their unconventional tactics and the fact that they were trying to overthrow the empire that had birthed them, could they not be considered terrorists as well?

Cabbage Patch Girl


Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: My Head
Posts: 3,315
Your son, and apparently your father and grandfather, enjoy killing people for a living.


oh,
forgot to point out that my dad and grand dad that "enjoyed" killing were conscripts.

wonder what you would do if you were conscripted..handed a rifle..and then had people trying to blow off your head...what exactly would you do?


try to talk to the guy about to blast you into oblivion?hide like a bitch and let your friends get killed..or man the hell up and survive?

They didn't have a choice; we do. We are not forced to kill people nowadays.

And we are not being invaded, either. There's no need for me to "Hide like a Bitch." Mabey if paratroopers from another nation were dropping on my rooftop, I'd make a stand. Until then, I'll try to solve things peacefully.

Good example with the wasps,, Secret aj man. Except wasps are not human beings. They are insects. The citizens and fighters in Iraq are people, not bugs. Insects act on instinct; people don't.

I don't disagree with the rest of your post, but this bit struck me. Do you truly believe that people don't act on instinct? Is it not our instinctual behavior to assess a situation and do what we think is best according to our interests and morals?

They didn't have a choice; we do. We are not forced to kill people nowadays.

And we are not being invaded, either. There's no need for me to "Hide like a Bitch." Mabey if paratroopers from another nation were dropping on my rooftop, I'd make a stand. Until then, I'll try to solve things peacefully.

while i agree with your point....you are the one that called my dad and grandfather.."killers"...no?
2 of the most non violent men i ever met..hell,i got in trouble because my dad would not hit me or disciline me..ever,and i wanted it...just pointing out that you know nothing of me or my family,and it was out of line to label them killers.
when they were in fact very sensitive,even after the war they were sent to.
hell..my dad was a world class pianist and cello player,i think the horror show he saw was somehow eased by his love of music and solitude.

Well you can always use my shoulder to cry on. I know what it is like to have a loved one in battle. I support everyone who has loved ones in the service wether they agree with it or not just like I support the troops who are there. If you ever need to talk, feel free to IM me. If you need my screenname, I'll happily give it to you.

thank you,it is comforting to know people,complete strangers are out there that care..thanks.

i would love to talk to you,i just dont know how.

and if i can ever do anything for you..please dont hesitate to ask...dave

It's tough, I know.

Here's something I dug up on this-worry:

Matthew 6:34

"Take therefore no thought for the morrow; for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itsefl, sufficient untio the day is the evil thereof"

Words that Christ himself spoke. Summary: Don't worry-things will happen as they happen. God is in control.

Matthew 28:20 And Lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. A'-men.

thanks,i am not religous..i was an alter boy for 6 years..but i get comfort from those words...funny how things go back..it is nice to have some one to commiserate with and get bucked up by....hope all is well with you my friend.

That's sort of like saying "The 7th Calvary were good guys, and the Indians were bad guys." America is not always the good guy, and I don't belive we are the "Good guy" in the Iraq war. Actually, I'm not even sure if there are any good guys in the Iraq war.
And didn't Cookie Monster get his named changed to Veggie Monster or something for health reasons?


I'm gonna put my flame suit on because the bolded part is going to get you the awesome sight of EUT and CORN dressed up in fire suits with flame throwers roasting you.

Americans ARE the good guys. And so are the brits. And the poles. And the Iraqis. And the Japanese. And the Koreans. And the Australians. And the Albanians. And the Croats. And the South Africans. And the Chileans.

And so is this guy-hardcore badass Sheet head kickin' Brian Chontosh.

http://www.wtv-zone.com/Mary/THISWILLMAKEYOUPROUD.HTML

http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/lookupstoryref/200456162723

thanks,i am not religous..i was an alter boy for 6 years..but i get comfort from those words...funny how things go back..it is nice to have some one to commiserate with and get bucked up by....hope all is well with you my friend.

I have more I will post in a minute. I have been reading tonight...

Good example with the wasps,, Secret aj man. Except wasps are not human beings. They are insects. The citizens and fighters in Iraq are people, not bugs. Insects act on instinct; people don't.

What you don't realize is that circumstances today are entirely different from the first world war and Korea. We are not fighting an 'Evil Enemy.' No communism, no nazis, no Germans, no Reds. Iraq has never been a direct threat to us. Was Saddam a brutal dictator? Yes. So are the leaders of Iran, China, much of Africa, many places in the Middle East, and North Korea. Yet we go after Iraq-a backwater place that is not a threat. Last I checked, the Nation of Iraq never attacked the United States of America.

No, America does not have the right to "Swat" any nation that "might be" a threat to our Security. On a playground, that would be called "Bullying."

If we should "Kill whoever can sting us," then why not kill Mexicans? They are, after all, taking jobs and draining the American Economy; this is without a doubt a hurtful sting.

Here's an interesting example:Why are the original Americans who overthrew British rule considered heros? Given their unconventional tactics and the fact that they were trying to overthrow the empire that had birthed them, could they not be considered terrorists as well?


while i agree with you that the us cant go around swatting every sting in the world(somalia/darfur..etc..)
and i agree we have no right to intervene,even if we disagree with their genocidal objectives...just like saddam..

i will dissagree with you on my wasp point.
no one can tell me that any person that beheads any one..soldier/journalist/innocent etc...is any better or deserves any better then a fucking bug!
i may argue..a bug has more rights then the fucking animals that behead or kill innocents,at least the bug is operating on instinct...the jihadist is calculating and cares not one wit..the bug does not say to themselves..gee..lets go out and sting some people..you know were this is going i hope!

They didn't have a choice; we do. We are not forced to kill people nowadays.

And we are not being invaded, either. There's no need for me to "Hide like a Bitch." Mabey if paratroopers from another nation were dropping on my rooftop, I'd make a stand. Until then, I'll try to solve things peacefully.

We are always going to be forced to kill evildoers and bring justice upon them. That's a fact. So long as the human race exists there will be cockroaches such as Zarqawi, saddam, Amin, and Bin laden scurrying underfoot, living in the shadows.

And it OUR job to kill them, for our safety and our allies :p

When precisely?

We certainly disabused the Ottoman empire of its provinces in 1919 or 1920, the precise date is irrelevant, however we were considered by Iraqi's to have liberated them from Ottoman rule for the most part.

No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Iraqi_War

while i agree with you that the us cant go around swatting every sting in the world(somalia/darfur..etc..)
and i agree we have no right to intervene,even if we disagree with their genocidal objectives...just like saddam..

i will dissagree with you on my wasp point.
no one can tell me that any person that beheads any one..soldier/journalist/innocent etc...is any better or deserves any better then a fucking bug!
i may argue..a bug has more rights then the fucking animals that behead or kill innocents,at least the bug is operating on instinct...the jihadist is calculating and cares not one wit..the bug does not say to themselves..gee..lets go out and sting some people..you know were this is going i hope!

AJ, look close, because you will only see this once.




:fluffle:



Yes, I've fluffled you. You made a ton of sense in that post. So much so I..well..you know.

I give you a +1, because I agree.

i love my country,my son is serving,my dad was in korea,and my grandfather got the cmh in ww1...

i feel we are being fucked...what happenened to the eishowers?(sp)

my kid went away,and i miss him so much i could die.
i would happily trade places with any kid over there.

and it offends me that people here,bad mouth my son,and he has not 1 bad bone in his body.but some here will cheer his death...when all he wants to do is be good for the world.
he is a kid....idealistic like most here,but it his only way to advance thru society,as he has no rich daddy or some skill that is needed.

as much as everyone hates america...please take 1 moment and think of a dad,feeling terribly alone with his son in a battle he had no part in starting...
the rich assholes sent him off,as they knew he had no option...and consider him collateral damage if he dies,like innocent civilians..

sorry for the rant...but i want to cry right now..i miss him so much,i tried to talk him out of it,but i am poor,and he realised it was his out..if he can make it thru it...he has a job in the real world.

i am not saying i agree or dissagree with the war..i am saying i miss my son....and i would trade places with him in a new york minute..as i am sour...he is a beautiful child,and i fear war will jade him.
he has a romantic idea....cause my family was war heros,but he is a sweet kid,and it kills me to think of him seeing the reality of war..i was a shitty dad,kinda,well i was selfish,and i fought gang stuff...but war,and i fear i trained him to like this shit...\
sorry,does anyone pray?

sounds dumb eh

If you're old enough to have a son in the military, shouldn't you be old enough for proper spelling and grammar?

If you're old enough to have a son in the military, shouldn't you be old enough for proper spelling and grammar?

dude your a fucking asshole and should go die, quit being a fukin gramar nazi and go fuck urself up the ass and take a fukin chill pill you homofuckin ass suckin bitch who never gets laid, ever. and i bet all wemon hate you thats why u is so gay. dont like the way i spell? fuck you, pay me. NOW SUBMIT BITCH.:upyours:

If you're old enough to have a son in the military, shouldn't you be old enough for proper spelling and grammar?


Yo grammar bitch...If you feel the need to correct grammar, then do it correctly...please.

If you are old enough to have a son in the military, shouldn't you be old enough for proper spelling and grammar?

Yo grammar bitch...If you feel the need to correct grammar, then do it correctly...please.

If you are old enough to have a son in the military, shouldn't you be old enough for proper spelling and grammar?

ahaha! right dude, he can't even be a be a grammar bitch the right way....

So what exactly is the point to this topic? Do you want sympathy for your alledged son? Or is it to debate the point of the war the alledged son was sent to?

All I've seen in this topic is ass kissing to the highest degree. "Oh, your son is brave." Who gives a flying fuck? Especially here, on a messageboard? It was your son's decision to fight, to enlist in the fucking army. If he dies, it won't impact me at all. If he lives, it won't impact me at all. I don't feel sorry for your son. I especially do not feel sorry for you. All you've done in this topic is say "Thank you" to those who haven't seen through your crap. Then one person disagrees, and tells you how it is, you go on a rampage with insults, flames, and the most horrible grammar I have ever seen.

while i agree with your point....you are the one that called my dad and grandfather.."killers"...no?
2 of the most non violent men i ever met..hell,i got in trouble because my dad would not hit me or disciline me..ever,and i wanted it...just pointing out that you know nothing of me or my family,and it was out of line to label them killers.
when they were in fact very sensitive,even after the war they were sent to.
hell..my dad was a world class pianist and cello player,i think the horror show he saw was somehow eased by his love of music and solitude.

If they killed anyone, regardless of the circumstances, they are killers. They killed. If you do not want me or anyone else to label your family, criticize your family, or insult them...then please don't ever bring them up again.

So what exactly is the point to this topic? Do you want sympathy for your alledged son? Or is it to debate the point of the war the alledged son was sent to?

All I've seen in this topic is ass kissing to the highest degree. "Oh, your son is brave." Who gives a flying fuck? Especially here, on a messageboard? It was your son's decision to fight, to enlist in the fucking army. If he dies, it won't impact me at all. If he lives, it won't impact me at all. I don't feel sorry for your son. I especially do not feel sorry for you. All you've done in this topic is say "Thank you" to those who haven't seen through your crap. Then one person disagrees, and tells you how it is, you go on a rampage with insults, flames, and the most horrible grammar I have ever seen.

while i agree with your point....you are the one that called my dad and grandfather.."killers"...no?
2 of the most non violent men i ever met..hell,i got in trouble because my dad would not hit me or disciline me..ever,and i wanted it...just pointing out that you know nothing of me or my family,and it was out of line to label them killers.
when they were in fact very sensitive,even after the war they were sent to.
hell..my dad was a world class pianist and cello player,i think the horror show he saw was somehow eased by his love of music and solitude.

If they killed anyone, regardless of the circumstances, they are killers. They killed. If you do not want me or anyone else to label your family, criticize your family, or insult them...then please don't ever bring them up again.

go suck a fat dick you buttfucking son of a bitch, I'm labeling you a faggot of the utmost.

go suck a fat dick you buttfucking son of a bitch, I'm labeling you a faggot of the utmost.

Heh.

You lack form and a thought process.

PHAILED.

So what exactly is the point to this topic? Do you want sympathy for your alledged son? Or is it to debate the point of the war the alledged son was sent to?

All I've seen in this topic is ass kissing to the highest degree. "Oh, your son is brave." Who gives a flying fuck? Especially here, on a messageboard? It was your son's decision to fight, to enlist in the fucking army. If he dies, it won't impact me at all. If he lives, it won't impact me at all. I don't feel sorry for your son. I especially do not feel sorry for you. All you've done in this topic is say "Thank you" to those who haven't seen through your crap. Then one person disagrees, and tells you how it is, you go on a rampage with insults, flames, and the most horrible grammar I have ever seen.

while i agree with your point....you are the one that called my dad and grandfather.."killers"...no?
2 of the most non violent men i ever met..hell,i got in trouble because my dad would not hit me or disciline me..ever,and i wanted it...just pointing out that you know nothing of me or my family,and it was out of line to label them killers.
when they were in fact very sensitive,even after the war they were sent to.
hell..my dad was a world class pianist and cello player,i think the horror show he saw was somehow eased by his love of music and solitude.

If they killed anyone, regardless of the circumstances, they are killers. They killed. If you do not want me or anyone else to label your family, criticize your family, or insult them...then please don't ever bring them up again.

"Who gives a flying fuck? Especially here, on a messageboard?"

Well, It's apparent that you do since you took time out of your busy schedule to reply. Why waste your time on negative thoughts?

"Who gives a flying fuck? Especially here, on a messageboard?"

Well, It's apparent that you do since you took time out of your busy schedule to reply. Why waste your time on negative thoughts?

Oh no, I don't give a fuck about him or his son in the least. But when someone comes here and expects sympathy for his alledged situation, I'm going to point out the faults. He came here for ass kissing and lied to get it.

So if you are correct in your statements/assumptions, then which one of you is more pathetic?

So if you are correct in your statements/assumptions, then which one of you is more pathetic?

You, for trying to spark argument out of nothing.

You seem unable to discern the difference between argument and debate, I was merely curious why you would waste your energy on such a negative assumption,

You seem unable to discern the difference between argument and bebate, I was merely curious why you would waste your energy on such a negative assumption,


There is no debate between you or myself. You're just trying to start an argument over what I said, and my supposed negative assumption on the guy. Again, I could careless about him, but when he lies to get sympathy and attention it pissed me off. He would lie about something a real parent and real son are currently going through, all in an effort for attention. I'm finished talking about it with you because you have absolutely nothing new to add.

So take your toys and go home.....Come back and play when you have something a bit more ruminative to say.

So take your toys and go home.....Come back and play when you have something a bit more ruminative to say.


Which would be impossible because the only thing left to do in this topic is kiss his ass some more.

:rolleyes:

It seems the esteemed "wisdom" of Eut. has failed him once more....


Our survival depends on our ability to drive home the point "STOP ATTACKING US! LEAVE US ALONE!" via force. Diplomacy don't work for jack once the shooting starts.

But as the US invaded them, "leave us alone" is hardly an appropriate rationale.


I have more I will post in a minute. I have been reading tonight....

Well done. I was wondering where the smell of wood burning was coming from......


We are always going to be forced to kill evildoers and bring justice upon them..

Unless, as is so often the case, the US supports the evildoers, in which case it will block and hamper all efforts to reign them in.

There is no debate between you or myself. You're just trying to start an argument over what I said, and my supposed negative assumption on the guy. Again, I could careless about him, but when he lies to get sympathy and attention it pissed me off. He would lie about something a real parent and real son are currently going through, all in an effort for attention. I'm finished talking about it with you because you have absolutely nothing new to add.

You're just trying to start an argument over what I said, and my 'negative supposed assumption' on the guy.

And you are correcting his grammar...?

You're just trying to start an argument over what I said, and my 'negative supposed assumption' on the guy.

And you are correcting his grammar...?


What? I'm sorry but I didn't quite understand that. I'm not arguing about your views. I was just defending my stance on the OP's hypocrisy.


No, not at all. Although his grammar needs correcting at the highest level.

It seems the esteemed "wisdom" of Eut. has failed him once more....



But as the US invaded them, "leave us alone" is hardly an appropriate rationale.



Well done. I was wondering where the smell of wood burning was coming from......



Unless, as is so often the case, the US supports the evildoers, in which case it will block and hamper all efforts to reign them in.

i agree, on your point of view, but in some extreme cases, (i.e 9-11) the nations of the world should do something against the CAUSE of the crime, and although i dont agree on bash attacking iraq, i do agree on him trying to put a stop to the terrorism, but i dont think he should have attacked iraq when the UN told him NOT to do so, and i think it was a VERY bad thing that he attacked iraq BEFORE he knew for sure that there were weopons of mass destruction.

What? I'm sorry but I didn't quite understand that. I'm not arguing about your views. I was just defending my stance on the OP's hypocrisy.


No, not at all. Although his grammar needs correcting at the highest level.

I'm not arguing for or against the views of anyone as well. Nor was I attacking your stance, I was merely curious as to why you were so adamant...almost offended at the OP (and correcting your grammar).

Here's an interesting example:Why are the original Americans who overthrew British rule considered heros? Given their unconventional tactics and the fact that they were trying to overthrow the empire that had birthed them, could they not be considered terrorists as well?

Overthrow the empire? You do know that we gave Britain every opportunity to negotiate right?

Here's an interesting example:Why are the original Americans who overthrew British rule considered heros? Given their unconventional tactics and the fact that they were trying to overthrow the empire that had birthed them, could they not be considered terrorists as well?

I highly recommend this book, Barbara Tuchman's "The March of Folly":

http://www.epinions.com/images/opti/b6/cd/0345308239-books-resized200.jpg

The book is in 5 sections, one of which is the American Revolution from the British perspective. Another is America's in Viet Nam.

However, the difference between American tactics and Iraqi "insurgency" is that the Colonial militia wore uniforms and did not target British civilians (including known Colonial Tories). They were guerrillas, sure. But they were NOT terrorists. There is a difference. If anything, you could equate them more with the North Vietnamese Army/Viet Cong.

However, the difference between American tactics and Iraqi "insurgency" is that the Colonial militia wore uniforms and did not target British civilians (including known Colonial Tories). They were guerrillas, sure. But they were NOT terrorists. There is a difference. If anything, you could equate them more with the North Vietnamese Army/Viet Cong.

Sorry, but we DID target loyalists in the colonies during the revolution. We stole their land, ate their farm produce, and lied and said we would give all the land back. In the revolutionary war-era, that was tatamount to killing them (as it led to starving to death in many cases). If I went and checked my sources, I'm pretty sure they would confirm that mobs were raised against loyalists.

That said, the basic comparison is still correct. Insurgents target civilians, hoping to use fear to drive public sentiment in their direction. Revolutioaries targeted loyalists to prevent them from ratting their plans out to Redcoats. There's a difference there. The VC was very similar to the Revolutionary army (basic MO's were only differentiated where technology made an impact on capabilities).

There is no shame in your son serving - the only shame is your absense of pride.

i love my country,my son is serving,my dad was in korea,and my grandfather got the cmh in ww1...

i feel we are being fucked...what happenened to the eishowers?(sp)

my kid went away,and i miss him so much i could die.
i would happily trade places with any kid over there.

and it offends me that people here,bad mouth my son,and he has not 1 bad bone in his body.but some here will cheer his death...when all he wants to do is be good for the world.
he is a kid....idealistic like most here,but it his only way to advance thru society,as he has no rich daddy or some skill that is needed.

as much as everyone hates america...please take 1 moment and think of a dad,feeling terribly alone with his son in a battle he had no part in starting...
the rich assholes sent him off,as they knew he had no option...and consider him collateral damage if he dies,like innocent civilians..

sorry for the rant...but i want to cry right now..i miss him so much,i tried to talk him out of it,but i am poor,and he realised it was his out..if he can make it thru it...he has a job in the real world.

i am not saying i agree or dissagree with the war..i am saying i miss my son....and i would trade places with him in a new york minute..as i am sour...he is a beautiful child,and i fear war will jade him.
he has a romantic idea....cause my family was war heros,but he is a sweet kid,and it kills me to think of him seeing the reality of war..i was a shitty dad,kinda,well i was selfish,and i fought gang stuff...but war,and i fear i trained him to like this shit...\
sorry,does anyone pray?

sounds dumb eh
No, pal, you just feel like the rest of us do when our kids aren't where we can protect them. I feel the same way everytime one of them gets on the plane to go back to school, or drives off to their home.

When I was on active duty, I had to write my Mom every week, else she would call up the duty officer and ask what was wrong with me. I got an inquiry from the Red Cross about my health one time when I was deployed and mail didn't work as smoothly as it should have.

You've got email and satellite telephony, so use it.

No, pal, you just feel like the rest of us do when our kids aren't where we can protect them. I feel the same way everytime one of them gets on the plane to go back to school, or drives off to their home.

When I was on active duty, I had to write my Mom every week, else she would call up the duty officer and ask what was wrong with me. I got an inquiry from the Red Cross about my health one time when I was deployed and mail didn't work as smoothly as it should have.

You've got email and satellite telephony, so use it.

A lot more connectivity to people deployed than there used to be. I talk to friends in Iraq and Afghanistan every day via IM and email.

I don't disagree with the rest of your post, but this bit struck me. Do you truly believe that people don't act on instinct? Is it not our instinctual behavior to assess a situation and do what we think is best according to our interests and morals?

Deep inside, we are only animals with instinct. What seperates us from animals, however, is our ability to think and rationalize against what our instinct might try to suggest. Of course, there are certian times when we act purely on instinct, but as rational human beings, we should try and

And so is this guy-hardcore badass Sheet head kickin' Brian Chontosh.

http://www.wtv-zone.com/Mary/THISWILLMAKEYOUPROUD.HTML

http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/lookupstoryref/200456162723

Yes, keep kicking those "Sheet Heads," Brian Chontosh. I congradulate you on your amazing abilaty to kill lots of people. While Impressive, it certianly doesn't make me very proud.

We are always going to be forced to kill evildoers and bring justice upon them. That's a fact. So long as the human race exists there will be cockroaches such as Zarqawi, saddam, Amin, and Bin laden scurrying underfoot, living in the shadows.

And it OUR job to kill them, for our safety and our allies :p

Yes, it is our "Job," becuase we were assigned so by God and America is the ultimate justice-giver and greatest force of good.

Or mabey America is just some speck of a nation that has held power for fifty measly years. We're no different than any large and powerful nation in the past-no different then the Romans, British, Mongols, or Chinese. We have power, and we can enforce it; that does not give us and "Right" to enforce it, however.

i will dissagree with you on my wasp point.
no one can tell me that any person that beheads any one..soldier/journalist/innocent etc...is any better or deserves any better then a fucking bug!
i may argue..a bug has more rights then the fucking animals that behead or kill innocents,at least the bug is operating on instinct...the jihadist is calculating and cares not one wit..the bug does not say to themselves..gee..lets go out and sting some people..you know where this is going i hope!

They do deserve better than a bug becuase they are human, and are accountable for their actions! They deserve a fair, balanced trial, not just a bullet through the skull. Just like the abusive jailiers at the Abu Gharib prison-who were no doubt animalistic beasts, treating prisoners much less than anything resembling human. Yet they were fairly tried and punished accordingly.

Deep inside, we are only animals with instinct. What seperates us from animals, however, is our ability to think and rationalize against what our instinct might try to suggest. Of course, there are certian times when we act purely on instinct, but as rational human beings, we should try and

One minor problem. Humans are NOT rational beings.

You realy should just get it over with and just kill your self . it would be faster and hurt less.
I don't think that that would make his son any happier, and suicide is a permanent answer to a temporary problem.

The only thing "dum" is your brazen assault upon the English language.

what if English was not his first language?

Its not mine. Yet, I post in english because everyone else does. Get over yourself.

One minor problem. Humans are NOT rational beings.

Good point; a vast majority of humans are definetly not rational. Ideally, however, we have the capabilaty to be rational and to think things through. I'm not saying humanity as a whole is rational, but we should and certianly can be.

One minor problem. Humans are NOT rational beings.
In your opinion.

Perhaps the "military" YOU know does, but not the one I spent some 34 years in. There are a number of principles upon which the military relies and "taking orders and shtting-the-hell-up" is not one of them. Indeed, one of the most imporant lessons for any commander is to learn that his men and their initiative and creativity are among his most important assets.

The effective commander encourages comments and critiques of his proposed courses of action, right up to the point in time where he or she makes a decision. At that point, all debate ceases and the decision then becomes the decision of the entire unit, regardless of level.

In the event some in the unit believe with good reason such order to be illegal, it is their responsibility to oppose it and if needed disobey it.

In other words, while some of the officers MAY encourage tea-and-biscuits, and a cozy chat before they start the indiscriminate killing... at the end of the day, it really DOES come down to 'take-orders-and-shut-the-hell-up'?

It's neiter bizarre nor irrelevant. You are either being disengenuous or deliberately trying to obfuscate the issue.

I disagree. I find the other poster's attempt to obfuscate obtuse, and bizarre. He (she?) raised irrelevent points. Simple as that.

You do know that was air and not ground right? What would he know of this?

Who provided the spotters?

Sorry, but we DID target loyalists in the colonies during the revolution. We stole their land, ate their farm produce, and lied and said we would give all the land back. In the revolutionary war-era, that was tatamount to killing them (as it led to starving to death in many cases). If I went and checked my sources, I'm pretty sure they would confirm that mobs were raised against loyalists.

Given that at any given time the British had more troops and the number of loyalists was 33-66% of a given population... I find it hard to believe.
Yes, raiding happened. But it was NOT standard colonial practice.

That said, the basic comparison is still correct. Insurgents target civilians, hoping to use fear to drive public sentiment in their direction. Revolutioaries targeted loyalists to prevent them from ratting their plans out to Redcoats. There's a difference there. The VC was very similar to the Revolutionary army (basic MO's were only differentiated where technology made an impact on capabilities).

Thanks.
Yep... there's a reason why Ho copied the US... :)

Overthrow the empire? You do know that we gave Britain every opportunity to negotiate right?

Is this before or after they resorted to terrorism and involving France?

Is this before or after they resorted to terrorism and involving France?

Before or have you forgotten the Olive Branch Petition? We didn't want to split. Ok some did and others didn't however the King ignored it.

Before or have you forgotten the Olive Branch Petition? We didn't want to split. Ok some did and others didn't however the King ignored it.

Oddly, the petty affairs of idealistic terrorists don't really concern me in comparison to medieval history.

Talk about insensitivity. :rolleyes:

Grow up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultraextreme Sanity
You realy should just get it over with and just kill your self . it would be faster and hurt less.

I don't think that that would make his son any happier, and suicide is a permanent answer to a temporary problem.




Thanks to both of you for pointing out what an asshole I can be....its a emotional subject but its still no excuse ...I apologise and only wish it had not taken me so long to edit the comment(s)
It was uncalled for , insentitive and downright stupid .
I should know better .

sounds dumb eh
Not in the slightest.

what if English was not his first language?

Its not mine. Yet, I post in english because everyone else does. Get over yourself.

right dude, what a dick, grammar nazis should be shot.