NationStates Jolt Archive

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/06/23/spain.migrants.reut/index.html

Well, it's one step closer to fixing Europe.

Yeah yeah yeah. Same old story. Same bullshit socialist protectionist policies. Same kind of people who would (and did) turn away boatloads of refugees from Nazi Germany. Same kind of anti-capitalistic short-sightedness mixed with (in some cases) just plain bigotry.

If that's what will "fix" Europe, maybe it's better off "broken."

The declining birth rate of ethnic Europeans needs to be reversed, grow your own people.

to fix the problem you will have to invade them again telling them your system is beter than theirs,of course we all tryed it and now they come back,saying our system is best but not working there(500 years now),and telling them they are wrong.
History is such a shit

Yeah yeah yeah. Same old story. Same bullshit socialist protectionist policies. Same kind of people who would (and did) turn away boatloads of refugees from Nazi Germany. Same kind of anti-capitalistic short-sightedness mixed with (in some cases) just plain bigotry.

If that's what will "fix" Europe, maybe it's better off "broken."

That's the biggest pile of shit I ever heard. How is it an anti-capitalist standpoint to be anti-immigration?
Damn near every communist (The ones who arent posers in Che teeshirts) I've met has supported open borders and an end to immigrant persecution.

That's the biggest pile of shit I ever heard. How is it an anti-capitalist standpoint to be anti-immigration?

Because it's state-enforced opposition to the labor market.


Damn near every communist (The ones who arent posers in Che teeshirts) I've met has supported open borders and an end to immigrant persecution.

Just because anti-immigration is anti-capitalist doesn't mean pro-immigration is necessarily pro-capitalist.

Besides, as I'm told so often, communism and socialism aren't the same thing. ;)

Viva espana.

The spanish have had to deal with influxes of people from elsewhere before, and it is likely that they are not very interested in having to do it again.

Because it's state-enforced opposition to the labor market.
Hardly anti-capitalist. More like anti-stupidly free market.


Just because anti-immigration is anti-capitalist doesn't mean pro-immigration is necessarily pro-capitalist.


damn straight. its more of a libertarian (in the social sense) position.

Get off your arse and procreate!

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/06/23/spain.migrants.reut/index.html

Well, it's one step closer to fixing Europe.

I object to the fact that you believe that Europe needs 'fixing' any more than anywhere else in the world.

Hardly anti-capitalist. More like anti-stupidly free market.


In my mind, if not those of closet anti-capitalist 'conservatives' in US, free market and capitalism go hand in hand. And I think we'll just agree to disagree about how stupid a free market is. :p


damn straight. its more of a libertarian (in the social sense) position.

True.

I only emphasize the economic aspect when I know (as in the case of GA) someone will never agree with the social aspect but maybe will see the light of Das Kapital...ism.

*yawn*

I object to the fact that you believe that Europe needs 'fixing' any more than anywhere else in the world.

Europe needs fixing because they actively encourage problems in the name of political correctness and multiculturalism.

Oh god, another thread...

No, no, no. What is wrong with Europe is the presence of immigrants at all. When all first, second and third generation immigrants are forcibly exiled from the EU, then the crisis will have a resolution.

No, no, no. What is wrong with Europe is the presence of immigrants at all. When all first, second and third generation immigrants are forcibly exiled from the EU, then the crisis will have a resolution.

...

Okay then...

yes because multi-culturalism is the devil:rolleyes: Seriously its Spains decision but i don't agree witha total ban on immigration. Just set quotas instead.Also why are people afraid of multiculturalism?

yes because multi-culturalism is the devil:rolleyes: Seriously its Spains decision but i don't agree witha total ban on immigration. Just set quotas instead.Also why are people afraid of multiculturalism?

I live in England. Whilst we have rarely, if ever been entirely homogenous, the current plathora of ethnic societies that make no pretence as to integrating are an affront to the English nation.

I also live in England. I am from an ethnic minority and your sweeping generalistaion doesn't really work. You say we don't intergrate BUT 95% of my friends are white. If that isn't intergrating then nothing is. My favourite music is of english an other heritage of such. So before you make sweeping generalisations look at all arguments

I also live in England. I am from an ethnic minority and your sweeping generalistaion doesn't really work. You say we don't intergrate BUT 95% of my friends are white. If that isn't intergrating then nothing is. My favourite music is of english an other heritage of such. So before you make sweeping generalisations look at all arguments

You still happen to be here. The majority of immigrants do not integrate, and gravitate towards ghetto-esque outposts of ethnicity.

You still happen to be here. The majority of immigrants do not integrate, and gravitate towards ghetto-esque outposts of ethnicity.

Generalise much, as he said? Perhaps I should state that all the vast majority of Conservative voters are Nazis? There would be about the same level of truth in that.

Generalise much, as he said? Perhaps I should state that all the vast majority of Conservative voters are Nazis? There would be about the same level of truth in that.

Not as such. The difference being, your statement is bilge. I'm a young conservative, and as yet don't appear to scream "Sieg Heil" at every oppurtunity, and nor do my compatriots.

Not as such. The difference being, your statement is bilge. I'm a young conservative, and as yet don't appear to scream "Sieg Heil" at every oppurtunity, and nor do my compatriots.

No, his comparison is valid. You made a generalization about "most immigrants." He made a generalization about "most conservatives." Both are bilge statements.

Neither one can be disproved by anecdotal exceptions. After all one could just say you are in the minority of non-nazi Conservatives.

No, his comparison is valid. You made a generalization about "most immigrants." He made a generalization about "most conservatives." Both are bilge statements.

Neither one can be disproved by anecdotal exceptions. After all one could just say you are in the minority of non-nazi Conservatives.

Nope. Have you, sir, ever vistited the major ethnic centres such as Bradford, Leeds, London and Scouseland?

Nope. Have you, sir, ever vistited the major ethnic centres such as Bradford, Leeds, London and Scouseland?

...have you ever listened to Ann Coulter?

We can go all day with pointing out examples of this or that, but neither of us proves jack shit about "the vast majority" of anyone.

can i ask why i was censured?

yes because multi-culturalism is the devil:rolleyes: Seriously its Spains decision but i don't agree witha total ban on immigration. Just set quotas instead.Also why are people afraid of multiculturalism?

If people want multi culturalism, there are tonnes of multi cultural countries. Canada is my fav among them. So instead of trying to make every single European country multi cultural, they should pack thier bags and move to Americas...

That's a good sign from Spain. But giving 600,000 illegal immigrants an amnesty is utter madness when a lot of them will be bringing alien cultures into Spain, particularly muslims. Of course, our pathetic government wants an amnesty (They say they're just considering it, but that basically means they plan to go ahead with it). What better way to invite more illegal immigrants in? Of course, that's what the government wants. More cheap labour to appease the greed of the financiers who they take orders from.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/06/23/spain.migrants.reut/index.html

Well, it's one step closer to fixing Europe.

Well, at least the US isn't the only country facing a serious illegal immigrant problem. :(

...have you ever listened to Ann Coulter?

We can go all day with pointing out examples of this or that, but neither of us proves jack shit about "the vast majority" of anyone.

Matter of fact I was listening to her shortly after 4AM while I was getting dressed. A very smart, lovely, and dedicated lady.

Matter of fact I was listening to her shortly after 4AM while I was getting dressed. A very smart, lovely, and dedicated lady.

ROFL.

Well, at least the US isn't the only country facing a serious illegal immigrant problem. :(


Since when is the US facing a "serious illegal immigrant problem" ?

This something you heard on Ann "I hate 9/11 widows" Coulter?

I am English but I can see your problem over the channel. The thing I hate most about immigrants is they ome over to your country and then complain about being the minority and how everyone discriminates against them, to that my reply is : 1) If you don't like being the minority go back to your own country 2) If you want to be equal get a crap 9-5 job and live in boredom and that does not include state benefits 4) If you move to another country, IT IS YOUR JOB TO FIT IN NOT EVERYONE ELSE'S DOB TO FIT IN AROUND YOU.

The Spanish might be right. They have an unemployment rate above 10%. Sounds like too many workers and not enough jobs. Spain needs to get its act together and develop an industry that isn't agricultural, tourist, or contruction based.

The Spanish might be right. They have an unemployment rate above 10%. Sounds like too many workers and not enough jobs. Spain needs to get its act together and develop an industry that isn't agricultural, tourist, or contruction based.


Plus... espana para los espanoles, siempre.

Spain fought a long war to drive out unvinvited migrants, they have ample reason to be suspect of new waves.

I think there is *just enough* moorish blood in the women of Al Andalus, they are perfect.

Plus... espana para los espanoles, siempre.

Spain fought a long war to drive out unvinvited migrants, they have ample reason to be suspect of new waves.

I think there is *just enough* moorish blood in the women of Al Andalus, they are perfect.I'm not keen on property rights or border controls or ideas of natiohood.

However, if it can be shown that I region as a whole is suffering due to certain factors then I would be willing to accept temporary restrictions.

In my view there should be a system whereby the immigrants are allowed to pass through to a more prosperous country like the UK or Ireland.

I'm not keen on property rights or border controls or ideas of natiohood.

However, if it can be shown that I region as a whole is suffering due to certain factors then I would be willing to accept temporary restrictions.

In my view there should be a system whereby the immigrants are allowed to pass through to a more prosperous country like the UK or Ireland.

Well, "not keen on property rights and nationhood" is an escape from dealing with the real issues in the world.

Ideally refugees like these should be sent to propserous refugee-nations like the US.

I'm not keen on property rights or border controls or ideas of natiohood.

However, if it can be shown that I region as a whole is suffering due to certain factors then I would be willing to accept temporary restrictions.

In my view there should be a system whereby the immigrants are allowed to pass through to a more prosperous country like the UK or Ireland.
Screw that. We already have too many immigrants coming in to create ethnic enclaves, commit crimes and sponge off the state. And the last thing I (And I think most other people in this country) would want is the sort of marxist system you would have.

Screw that. We already have too many immigrants coming in to create ethnic enclaves, commit crimes and sponge off the state. And the last thing I (And I think most other people in this country) would want is the sort of marxist system you would have.

Do you advocate protectionism also then?

Do you advocate protectionism also then?
Yes, I think some protectionism is necessary to protect our domestic industries. But not to the point where there would be a danger of retaliation and a trade war that would damage us economically. The use of less overt governmental pressure could help with that.

Europe needs fixing because they actively encourage problems in the name of political correctness and multiculturalism.

i have to agree...their is nothing wrong with being polite and accepting...but when it drags you down with crime/poverty/and people exspecting handouts...being pc has gone to far.

there is nothing wrong with helping people in need,i do daily...but state sanctioned...no thanks.

and i thought the us was the only country dealing with this issue...lol..i must be ethnocentric..or just an ugly american....just kidding,i am aware it is a world wide issue due to the disparity of wealth amongst the haves(industrialized countries) and the have nots....but i have to say,it is good and decent to help people..no it is your responsibility to help if you can,but at some point..it may be better to have the country they are emmigrating from put on track.

Yes, I think some protectionism is necessary to protect our domestic industries. But not to the point where there would be a danger of retaliation and a trade war that would damage us economically. The use of less overt governmental pressure could help with that.

So much for 'competition' and a 'free market' then eh?

Spain rightly belongs to the Africans, it has been a part of a non-European cultures for most of its history (Carthage, North African Visigoth, Islamic)...

And under all these civilisations it prospered, and people were treated tolerantly and allowed to get on with their own business. Untill the European Reconquistas stole the land, forced conversions from the native Muslims and Jews and murdered those who did not comply.

Seeing as all Nationalism stems from a (mis)understanding of history, surely we consider the history of Spain, that the current dominant ethnicity are intolerant, murderous thieves who did not allow the same freedoms to others that were granted to them and have no right to announce who is and is not allowed in a country they stole.

(Yes, I know I'm generalising, and blaming current generations for the deeds of their ancestors... I'd like to think of it as using concepts Nationalists would understand.)

So much for 'competition' and a 'free market' then eh?
I never said I was an absolute supporter of the free market. I believe that the government should act in the best interests of the people. If the forces of the free market conflict with the good of the people, then the free market can go to hell.

If the forces of the free market conflict with the good of the people, then the free market can go to hell.
...shortly followed by your economy.

Spain rightly belongs to the Africans, it has been a part of a non-European cultures for most of its history (Carthage, North African Visigoth, Islamic)...

And under all these civilisations it prospered, and people were treated tolerantly and allowed to get on with their own business. Untill the European Reconquistas stole the land, forced conversions from the native Muslims and Jews and murdered those who did not comply.

Seeing as all Nationalism stems from a (mis)understanding, surely we consider the history of Spain, that the current dominant ethnicity are intolerant, murderous thieves who did not allow the same freedoms to others that were granted to them and have no right to announce who is and is not allowed in a country they stole.

(Yes, I know I'm generalising, and blaming current generations for the deeds of their ancestors... I'd like to think of it as using concepts Nationalists would understand.)


I dont think you're generalising, i think you're lying.

Spain was originally populated by Iberian Celts, Greeks, Phonecians and a spattering of Carthagenians.

What in god's name is a "north african visigoth?"

In 711 the Moors invaded spain and conquered it for Islam, they were stopped at Tours.

The reconquest was called a "reconquest" because it was a taking back of the land from foreign invaders.

I dont think you're generalising, i think you're lying.

Spain was originally populated by Iberian Celts, Greeks, Phonecians and a spattering of Carthagenians.

What in god's name is a "north african visigoth?"

In 711 the Moors invaded spain and conquered it for Islam, they were stopped at Tours.

The reconquest was called a "reconquest" because it was a taking back of the land from foreign invaders.

I agree with you, but there were Visigoths in Northern Africa as well. They spread out a lot and bred like rabbits.

...shortly followed by your economy.
It doesn't mean that I'm completely against the free market and I think competition is often a good thing. Just that I don't want to see a completely unrestricted market. Particularly when that unrestricted market only serves the interests of the international financiers and not of the people. A government can restrict market forces without its economy going completely down the crapper or turning communist. It's possible to at least pay lip service to the principles of the free market and economic liberalism while acting towards the protection of domestic industry.

I agree with you, but there were Visigoths in Northern Africa as well. They spread out a lot and bred like rabbits.Are you sure you mean Visigoth? I thought it was the Vandals that migrated round to Africa.

Are you sure you mean Visigoth? I thought it was the Vandals that migrated round to Africa.
Wait.... maybe.... I dunno. They all sounded the bloody same to me.

Whoever was pushed into Iberia from Central Europe, also ended up in North Africa for a while- Morocco and a bit of Algeria.

Wait.... maybe.... I dunno. They all sounded the bloody same to me.

Whoever was pushed into Iberia from Central Europe, also ended up in North Africa for a while- Morocco and a bit of Algeria.That would be the Vandals then. I seem to remember them sacking Rome by coming up from Africa as well.

Maybe you do mean the Visigoths. They settled in Iberia, but they never went as far as Africa though (I think).

I'm fairly sure there were Visigoths in North Africa, as well as many other groups, which goes with the point I was making, that before Nationalism Europe was prone to many mass migrations, (a lot of _very_ mass migrations that dwarf todays immigrant populations of 15% at the most).

The fact is that Moorish al-Andalus was a state that cared for its citizens much more than the petty Kingdoms of the reconquista, whose Inquisition, (a prototype for the later Secret Police services of many nations), is even today renowned for its creulty. Surely anyone but a double-thinking Papist or a Phlangist would agree that the event was regrettable.

Anti-immigrants piss me off. I posit that the vast majority of fervent anti-immigration advocates do it out of xenophobia and bigotry rooted in ignorance.