NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060623/ts_nm/security_usa_arrests_dc

It's getting to the point where a decentralized organization can't be sure of who they are really talking to, or who is listening. Maybe if they had more experience on Internet forums, they would question who they are really talking to.

Media reports said no weapons or explosives were found, including in a raid at a warehouse in the poor Miami suburb of Liberty City, where heavily armed security agents were seen by residents on Thursday afternoon. They had left by the evening.

"In the past couple of days, the U.S. government has taken into custody seven people who were conspiring to conduct jihad (holy war) in the United States," the law enforcement source said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

"They thought they were dealing with al Qaeda," the source said, adding the suspects had been trying to buy weapons and other things needed to carry out attacks.

The source said the government had an informant with whom the suspected conspirators had discussed their plans.

"There was no immediate threat because we were in on the discussions." the source said.

A man identified as a member of the "Seas of David" religious group later told CNN in Miami that five of his fellow members were among those arrested and that they had no connection to terrorists.

"We are not terrorists. We are members of David, Seas of David," said the man, identified as Brother Corey. He said the group had "soldiers" in Chicago, but reiterated it was peaceful movement.

Dude, don't bother. To the liberals, they're just misunderstood innocent civilians being persecuted by the evil Christian capitalist government.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060623/D8IDSAQ02.html

More news on the same people. Sounds like a fun group.

Sounds like Fight Club when you think about it.

MIAMI (AP) - Inside a city warehouse, authorities believe, a group was hatching the early stages of a widespread terror plot - one that targeted Chicago's Sears Tower, an FBI office in Miami and other U.S. buildings.

On Thursday, authorities swarmed the warehouse in Miami's Liberty City area, removed a metal door with a blowtorch and arrested seven people, a federal law enforcement official said. Authorities in Washington and Miami were expected to release more details in separate news conferences Friday morning.

Neighbors who lived nearby said young men, who appeared to be in their teens and 20s, slept in the warehouse, running what looked like a militaristic group. They appeared brainwashed, some said.

"They would come out late at night and exercise," said Tashawn Rose, 29. "It seemed like a military boot camp that they were working on there. They would come out and stand guard."

(AP) An FBI office in North Miami Beach, Fla., is seen late Thursday, June 22, 2006. Seven people were...
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The law enforcement official told The Associated Press the seven were mainly Americans with no apparent ties to al-Qaida or other foreign terrorist organizations. He spoke on condition of anonymity so as not to pre-empt the news conferences.

"There is no imminent threat to Miami or any other area because of these operations," said Richard Kolko, spokesman for FBI headquarters in Washington. He declined further comment.

Residents living near the warehouse said the men taken into custody described themselves as Muslims and had tried to recruit young people to join their group. Rose said they tried to recruit her younger brother and nephew for a karate class.

She said she talked to one of the men about a month ago. "They seemed brainwashed," she said. "They said they had given their lives to Allah."

It's not against the law to be a Jihadist. Terrorism is against the Law - but by criminalising the idea behind it, when a good majority of its followers will never actually do anything about it (yeah, they'll talk big, but at the end of the day most people are cowards), it seems overkill to criminalise people for causing no actual harm to anyone.

It's not against the law to be a Jihadist. Terrorism is against the Law - but by criminalising the idea behind it, when a good majority of its followers will never actually do anything about it (yeah, they'll talk big, but at the end of the day most people are cowards), it seems overkill to criminalise people for causing no actual harm to anyone.

Conspiracy to commit a felony is a felony. It's not a "new" legal tactic.

It's not against the law to be a Jihadist. Terrorism is against the Law - but by criminalising the idea behind it, when a good majority of its followers will never actually do anything about it (yeah, they'll talk big, but at the end of the day most people are cowards), it seems overkill to criminalise people for causing no actual harm to anyone.
Talk big? Ok, so if I'm heard planning to set my local mosque on fire and shooting those who try to flee law enforcement shouldn't get involved?

Talk big? Ok, so if I'm heard planning to set my local mosque on fire and shooting those who try to flee law enforcement shouldn't get involved?

They should question you. But if they are convinced that what you are doing is just talk, and nothing more, then you should be free to live with your genocidal fantacies.

They should question you. But if they are convinced that what you are doing is just talk, and nothing more, then you should be free to live with your genocidal fantacies.
Remember kids, threats are fun and have no repercussions. :rolleyes:

They should question you. But if they are convinced that what you are doing is just talk, and nothing more, then you should be free to live with your genocidal fantacies.
Here in the US, there's a long, long tradition where if you announce your homicidal intent to an undercover police officer, you are guilty of conspiracy to commit <fill in the homicidal act>.

Especially if you have a group of people who are asking.

Is this going to be like the Mendeza(sp) incident where all the neocons were going "He's a terrorist! He should have been shot" then when the news came out that he wasn't, they went "Well, he deserved it for resisting arrest."

Then when it came out that he wasn't and that the officers overreacted just cause he turned to face them when called out, they went "It wasn't the officers who killed him. It must have been some Jihadi."

But when marines get implicated in a bunch of unprovoked civilian killings, it's all "Oh, let them be investigated. We don't know if they were really like that. They couldn't possibly be the ones responsible."

Hypocrites.

Is this going to be like the Mendeza(sp) incident where all the neocons were going "He's a terrorist! He should have been shot" then when the news came out that he wasn't, they went "Well, he deserved it for resisting arrest."

Then when it came out that he wasn't and that the officers overreacted just cause he turned to face them when called out, they went "It wasn't the officers who killed him. It must have been some Jihadi."

But when marines get implicated in a bunch of unprovoked civilian killings, it's all "Oh, let them be investigated. We don't know if they were really like that. They couldn't possibly be the ones responsible."

Hypocrites.

There's definately a precedent for the feds to set people up, that's true.

However, based on initial reports, these guys were soliciting weapons and explosives from undercover agents. If that's true, they need to spend a loooong time in jail and hopefully it will get further leads. If they were set up, the feds need their peepee's slapped. Hard.

Edit: Never heard the "Jihadi killed him" line. That's a new one on me.

There's definately a precedent for the feds to set people up, that's true.

However, based on initial reports, these guys were soliciting weapons and explosives from undercover agents. If that's true, they need to spend a loooong time in jail and hopefully it will get further leads. If they were set up, the feds need their peepee's slapped. Hard.

All I'm going to say is that more evidence and details regarding the investigation has to come out before I'm going to say yay or nay regarding whether they're terrorists or not. If they are, whatever the law says is fitting punishment, throw it at them.

If there isn't sufficient evidence, then they get to go free.

Whatever the case, it has to work within the legal framework of the law, not kangaroo courts.


Edit: Never heard the "Jihadi killed him" line. That's a new one on me.

Basically a couple of people posted back then that it might have been some terrorist or another who 'might' have been in that apartment he was staying at trying to silence him. Subsequent investigations proved that to be a load of bunk.

It was pretty much the same regarding witness testimonies. Some people said he ran the still and was being chased by the police while the last bits of the investigation didn't show him doing any running at all.

So I'm going to take that "brainwashed" comment from the eyewitness with a grain of salt.

Dude, don't bother. To the liberals, they're just misunderstood innocent civilians being persecuted by the evil Christian capitalist government.

Wrong.

Conspiracy to commit a felony is a felony. It's not a "new" legal tactic.

What felony is it they are conspiring to commit?*


* I have something of a headache right now, so I may have missed something obvious here, if so, my apologies.

What felony is it they are conspiring to commit?*


* I have something of a headache right now, so I may have missed something obvious here, if so, my apologies.
They attempted to buy firearms and explosives from undercover law enforcement and they planned to use the explosives against buildings in the USA including the Sears tower.

Wonder if this will cause them to realize that we have more crazies in here than Al-Queda has in their entire organization. It's hardly the first nutjob group, won't be the last.


The more I think about this the more conflicted I get. It's highly encouraging that we caught them before they could act, on the other hand it's horrid that Americans could consider betraying their own country like that.

The more I think about this the more conflicted I get. It's highly encouraging that we caught them before they could act, on the other hand it's horrid that Americans could consider betraying their own country like that.

Betrayal is a matter of perspective. Patriots betrayed the loyalists and formed the US.

I would go so far as to say that the rebellious/seccessionist issues are one thing that really defines Americans.

The world never seems to run out of idiots. I'm glad our law enforcement was on the case. I bet these guys were message boarding their plans or something equally as stupid to get a setup/solicitation from the authorities.

Dude, don't bother. To the liberals, they're just misunderstood innocent civilians being persecuted by the evil Christian capitalist government.

exactly.

Will this have any effect on the left's crusade to devoid the government of each and any tool in the war against terrorism? Surely, being blown to pieces overrides concerns about a computer sifting through your information?

They attempted to buy firearms and explosives from undercover law enforcement and they planned to use the explosives against buildings in the USA including the Sears tower.

Curious situation that... why would someone seek out only undercover law enforcement for supplies?

Is the story being inflated? Or is this entrapment?

"We are members of David, Seas of David"


Doesn't exactly sound like a jihadist group.

Curious situation that... why would someone seek out only undercover law enforcement for supplies?

Is the story being inflated? Or is this entrapment?


what I imagine is that they were loud about their plans and were approached by undercovers with promises to fill their needs

Doesn't exactly sound like a jihadist group.

Don't forget that Kings David and Solomon are just as revered by Muslims as by Christians or Jews.

Or perhaps they were Jewish Jihadists...:D