NationStates Jolt Archive

I didn't say you had... I emrely pointed out that you opened that particular avenue, by claiming that it is ESSENTIAL for a child to be raised in a two-oppositely-gendered/sexed-parent-family. Which is transparently untrue... and which you haven't even pretended to make a decent defence for being able to 'prove'.

Your argument lacks evidentiary support - as it must, because it is bigotry.

You didn't really deal with my 'premise' under which it would be, not only non-heinous, but actually laudable, for the Christian to murder children.

Do you not agree with Christ, that self-sacrifice is the GREATEST gift, and that the greatest commandment for existence between men, is to love one's neighbour?

I said that a child has balance when they have a mother and a father. Its been proven by statscanada. I don't have the time to go searching for people who are not actually interested in this and who would rather just make blanket statements once proof has been provided. No thanks, I am not a doormat here. I don't know what your premise was, if you are really interested in dialogue, please repeat it for me and I will certainly address it respectfully.

No I don't and that's a lie. You'd have to be an idiot to suggest this.
Then you're in favor of homosexual marriage and adoption?

Wait, you honestly think he wasn't comparing me to the Al Qaeda??? Where do you get this conclusion??? And why shouldn't I stand up when someone accuses me of exterminating children and then having a lot in common with Al Qaeda? Why is it that people like you have to resort to extremes like this? It suggests to me that any opposition to your opinion(s) are met with blanket statements like these. I'm waiting (not hoping) for someone to bring up a comparison to the Nazi's because that is all that you're missing.

Did I 'resort to extremes'... or are you now 'reorting to an extreme' yourself, in claiming the everyone is party to some 'conspiracy' against you?

"People like me"? Who ARE the 'people like me'?

I notice you didn't answer the question, either. A weak attempt at deflection, I'm afraid.

Well, if people at the UN are trying to rewrite the US Constitution, and want to take our guns away, then turnabout is fair play. I'd be happy to send them any idiot idea we have, and let them wrestle with the pigs.
Ahahahahahaaaaa... You're funny.

But no.

If anyone is trying to rewrite the US constitution, and if you're looking for the people whou would be responsible for banning guns, do not look to the UN. Rather, look to Mr. Bolton, the Bush administration, and the US government.

Actually it didn't, which is why I objected. If you read (past tense) it as meaning the religious right, then fine, but it does not say the religious right.

I'm thinking of a different quote, then... I thought you were replying to the post that said something about "rightwing religious fascists'...

And what evidence is there to suggest that gay parents are inadequate relative to heterosexual couples, I know plenty of people abused by heterosexual parents, should be ban them too?
I'm not saying that they are or aren't. I don't have evidence to back either viewpoint.

I know the internet is not the perfect route for sarcasm, but surely you can detect sarcasm in peoples posts...right?

Again, for the 2nd time, why is it alright to have sarcasm against a Christian but not okay against a homosexual??? Again, why is it okay to go to an extreme example such as extermination and Al Qaeda??? It isn't sarcasm, it is an accusation as the people who have done this have not stated this was sarcasm.

Is it sarcasm if I said that you have a lot in common with Hitler? No, it would be disgusting on my part to suggest such a thing.

You know that I do.

You do not apologize for:

Me
My parents
My gf
My Congressman
My 2 senators
The president
The Secretary of State
The Secretary of defense
The rest of the cabinet and congress
The diplomats in other nations
And the list goes on

My advice to you is to apologize for yourself and not on behalf of the US for you DO NOT represent the United States.

Wait, you honestly think he wasn't comparing me to the Al Qaeda??? Where do you get this conclusion??? And why shouldn't I stand up when someone accuses me of exterminating children and then having a lot in common with Al Qaeda? Why is it that people like you have to resort to extremes like this? It suggests to me that any opposition to your opinion(s) are met with blanket statements like these. I'm waiting (not hoping) for someone to bring up a comparison to the Nazi's because that is all that you're missing.
Comparing you to Al Qaeda does not mean you are accused of being Al Qaeda.

I would like to stand united with Drunk Commies in this apology to the rest of the world, for the crimes against humanity our Fundamentalists are bringing on you. Trust me, we aren't all nutjobs.

Did I 'resort to extremes'... or are you now 'reorting to an extreme' yourself, in claiming the everyone is party to some 'conspiracy' against you?

"People like me"? Who ARE the 'people like me'?

I notice you didn't answer the question, either. A weak attempt at deflection, I'm afraid.

No good on changing the subject here, when someone accuses someone of having a lot in common with Al Qaeda, that's serious. I didn't know that throwing stuff like this out was a joke, certainly didn't present itself as such.

And yes, people like you, people like you who support these extremes when its against someone with whom you disagree.

The guy refused to work on sundays. What a lazy shit.

Once again, Gods law is only followed when it benefits YOU, like not having to go to work.

Again, for the 2nd time, why is it alright to have sarcasm against a Christian but not okay against a homosexual??? Again, why is it okay to go to an extreme example such as extermination and Al Qaeda??? It isn't sarcasm, it is an accusation as the people who have done this have not stated this was sarcasm.

Is it sarcasm if I said that you have a lot in common with Hitler? No, it would be disgusting on my part to suggest such a thing.
Finaly a godwin … took long enough

I said that a child has balance when they have a mother and a father. Its been proven by statscanada. I don't have the time to go searching for people who are not actually interested in this and who would rather just make blanket statements once proof has been provided. No thanks, I am not a doormat here. I don't know what your premise was, if you are really interested in dialogue, please repeat it for me and I will certainly address it respectfully.

I don't recall seeing you provide ANY proof. Thus - I have to assume your premise is a blind prejudice.

Even if children thrive under dual-gendered/sexed parenting... that still wouldn't necessitate a one-man-one-woman, 'marriage' relationship.

You do not apologize for:

Me
My parents
My gf
My Congressman
My 2 senators
The president
The Secretary of State
The Secretary of defense
The rest of the cabinet and congress
The diplomats in other nations
And the list goes on

My advice to you is to apologize for yourself and not on behalf of the US for you DO NOT represent the United States.
Yes I do.

I said that a child has balance when they have a mother and a father. Its been proven by statscanada. I don't have the time to go searching for people who are not actually interested in this and who would rather just make blanket statements once proof has been provided. No thanks, I am not a doormat here. I don't know what your premise was, if you are really interested in dialogue, please repeat it for me and I will certainly address it respectfully.

No, you won't. Unless he agrees with you.

And I'll repeat it, for shock value: If a person tries to force their religious views upon, say, their mother, then, they're raping their mother. I'll say it again, this time louder, and for anyone for whom the shoe fits:

TRYING TO FORCE RELIGIOUS BELIEFS DOWN PEOPLE'S THROATS IS RAPE. IF YOU DO THAT, AND I DON'T CARE WHO YOU ARE, YOU ARE A RAPIST. WHOEVER DOES THAT IS. NO EXCEPTIONS.

If the shoe doesn't fit, you're not a rapist (in this area).

Comparing you to Al Qaeda does not mean you are accused of being Al Qaeda.

Wow, are you really using this straw man? Please, if you're really trying to minimize the statement, you aren't doing a good job of it.

...
Me
My parents
My gf
My Congressman
My 2 senators
The president
The Secretary of State
The Secretary of defense
The rest of the cabinet and congress
The diplomats in other nations
And the list goes on
...


I personally apologize for this list of people as well. :D

No, you won't. Unless he agrees with you.

And I'll repeat it, for shock value: If a person tries to force their religious views upon, say, their mother, then, they're raping their mother. I'll say it again, this time louder, and for anyone for whom the shoe fits:

TRYING TO FORCE RELIGIOUS BELIEFS DOWN PEOPLE'S THROATS IS RAPE. IF YOU DO THAT, AND I DON'T CARE WHO YOU ARE, YOU ARE A RAPIST. WHOEVER DOES THAT IS. NO EXCEPTIONS.

If the shoe doesn't fit, you're not a rapist (in this area).

You could say the same thing for secularists such as yourself then. Its all the same thing.

The guy refused to work on sundays. What a lazy shit.

Once again, Gods law is only followed when it benefits YOU, like not having to go to work.
Agreed … the employer was absolutely in the right if the job was stated to work some or all weekends.

The employer has an expectation for work time and amount … why should he or she NOT go find someone that fulfills those expectations .

I would like to stand united with Drunk Commies in this apology to the rest of the world, for the crimes against humanity our Fundamentalists are bringing on you. Trust me, we aren't all nutjobs.

That's why I like being British. Our nutjobs are usualy a tiny, tiny minority, and usually more eccentric than harmful. We do have the BNP, but...everyone just laughs at them.

Thank you! Left wingers were responsible for expanding liberty and democracy throughout our nation's history. You've paid me quite a nice compliment.

And yet those same left wingers are also in the process of trying to hurt our national security. Just like some right wingers I can name.

No good on changing the subject here, when someone accuses someone of having a lot in common with Al Qaeda, that's serious. I didn't know that throwing stuff like this out was a joke, certainly didn't present itself as such.

And yes, people like you, people like you who support these extremes when its against someone with whom you disagree.

And - again... I have neither accused you of being in al-qaeda, or of being like al-qaeda. Nor, have I defended any other post that did so.

To say I have, is either blinkered judgement on your own part... or dishonesty. I prefer to think you are just confused.

Comparing you to Al Qaeda does not mean you are accused of being Al Qaeda.
Don't bother. He doesn't do nuance. Everything is either black or white with him and any clarification of one's position is seen as flip flopping. We may actually be arguing with the president of the USA.

I personally apologize for this list of people as well. :D
Damn you beat me to it :)

You could say the same thing for secularists such as yourself then. Its all the same thing.

No, really you couldn't. The US Christian Fundies are trying to force bigotry on the United States. I'd like to see a secularist bill similar to Defense Of Marriage.

And yet those same left wingers are also in the process of trying to hurt our national security. Just like some right wingers I can name.

Hurting your national security how, exactly?

And yet those same left wingers are also in the process of trying to hurt our national security. Just like some right wingers I can name.
Come on man, have you ever seen me post something in favor of weakening US security?

Yes I do.

No you don't DCD. i know you don't. You know you don't. I know you are doing so in jest now and that's fine but don't assume you speak for me or my family because you don't.

You could say the same thing for secularists such as yourself then. Its all the same thing.

No, it isn't. I'm not trying to force churches to be demolished or trying to forbid religions. I'm not a rapist like EVERYONE THAT TRIES TO FORCE RELIGION DOWN OUR THROATS.

Perfectly laudable, but I would hope that they, and the groups they endorse, will find little sympathy outside of the USA.

Personally, I rather think they should be forcibly buggered by a black muslim commie, but hey.;)

No you don't DCD. i know you don't. You know you don't. I know you are doing so in jest now and that's fine but don't assume you speak for me or my family because you don't.
Hey, whatever. The rest of the world knows what's up. They know I'm the official spokesman for the USA.

Come on man, have you ever seen me post something in favor of weakening US security?

I know you haven't.

You could say the same thing for secularists such as yourself then. Its all the same thing.

The question is one of the imposition of your values on another, not what values are being imposed. The secularist is not necessarily imposing his values, nor is the religious man. The rape occurs when you say that I have to agree with your beliefs. I don't.

Perfectly laudable, but I would hope that they, and the groups they endorse, will find little sympathy outside of the USA.

Personally, I rather think they should be forcibly buggered by a black muslim commie, but hey.;)
May I suggest a black musllim commie with HIV?

And yet those same left wingers are also in the process of trying to hurt our national security. Just like some right wingers I can name.


eh, you rightie traditionalists always think that at the time the left is hurting everyone, but then later you see the wisdom of our ways and how much better things are when we get our way.

it's not your fault... your parents and church leaders drill it into yoru head everyday. some of it is bound to stick.

Wow, are you really using this straw man? Please, if you're really trying to minimize the statement, you aren't doing a good job of it.
Okay, you don't know what a strawman argument is, either...

I have searched StatsCanada and The Daily (their newsletter) looking for evidence of gay parenting statistics (doing your work for you), so far with no luck.

Here, perhaps you can do better and provide us with some real evidence:
http://www.statcan.ca/english/dai-quo/

You do not apologize for:

Me
My parents
My gf
My Congressman
My 2 senators
The president
The Secretary of State
The Secretary of defense
The rest of the cabinet and congress
The diplomats in other nations
And the list goes on

My advice to you is to apologize for yourself and not on behalf of the US for you DO NOT represent the United States.

Hmmmmm?

I could apologies for that list! ;)

eh, you rightie traditionalists always think that at the time the left is hurting everyone, but then later you see the wisdom of our ways and how much better things are when we get our way.

it's not your fault... your parents and church leaders drill it into yoru head everyday. some of it is bound to stick.

Oh this is a bunch of horse manure.

1) I do not believe that the life is hurting everyone. There are things that they have done that I do support and there are objectives that I do not support. The same for the Republican Party. I support them on some and not on others.

2) Yes I am a christian and I do try my best to live according to those principles. I do not support Abortion (except when the life of the mother is at stake), I do not support Gay Marriage (nor do I support the Federal Marriage Amendment) but I do support Civil Unions.

Don't bother. He doesn't do nuance. Everything is either black or white with him and any clarification of one's position is seen as flip flopping. We may actually be arguing with the president of the USA.
LOL! :D

Don't apologise for ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't apologise for ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Too late.

Much as I "h8" to agree with the intellectually challenged member two posts above me, I feel I must say.

Do not apologize for anyone but yourself.

Hmmmmm?

I could apologies for that list! ;)

He certainly should.

Oh this is a bunch of horse manure.

1) I do not believe that the life is hurting everyone. There are things that they have done that I do support and there are objectives that I do not support. The same for the Republican Party. I support them on some and not on others.

2) Yes I am a christian and I do try my best to live according to those principles. I do not support Abortion (except when the life of the mother is at stake), I do not support Gay Marriage (nor do I support the Federal Marriage Amendment) but I do support Civil Unions.

are you sure it isn't dog poopie? it's cuter to say at least.

I was generalizing the traditional conservatives, because we always hear about how liberals are hurting America, it's national security, it's family values, it's economy. Yet we can see that liberal govt's are run for the benefit of the populace, where as conservative govt's are most often run for power where the populace is brutalized. I dunno why anyone would want to stick with such an ideology when it's seen over and over again to be cruel and oppressive.

Too late.
I, for one, appreciated it. ;)

May I suggest a black musllim commie with HIV?

Much better.:)

Are you trying to say that I am a hypocrite?

Europeans don't interfere with US elections, as you allege. We don't try to influence US laws that don't affect us either, as these Christian Rightists do.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/InternationalOrganizations/wm596.cfm

The UN does.

And...
The UK does...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1329858,00.html

http://www.heritage.org/Research/InternationalOrganizations/wm596.cfm

The UN does.

And...
The UK does...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1329858,00.html

That's a British paper. Or did the Guardian suddenly assume control of the government whilst I wasn't looking?

http://www.heritage.org/Research/InternationalOrganizations/wm596.cfm


:D Now that is a arch-conservative think tank.

Does the US get involved in other countries elections?

http://www.heritage.org/Research/InternationalOrganizations/wm596.cfm

The UN does.That's beyond a stretch.

And...
The UK does...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1329858,00.html
Individuals inside the UK do not constitute "the UK" as a governmental entity.

Next?

:D Now there is a arch-conservative think tank.

Does the US get involved in other countries elections?

I'm sure the United States has in no way ever interfered with a countries legitimate elections.

Or deposed democratically elected leaders.

Or tried to have them assassinated.

That's beyond a stretch.


Individuals inside the UK do not constitute "the UK" as a governmental entity.

Next?

A letter writing campaign is interference, even if it isn't done by the government.

By your standard then, the Christian fundamentalists in the OP are doing nothing wrong because it's not the US government acting officially.

Next?

I'm sure the United States has in no way ever interfered with a countries legitimate elections.

Or deposed democratically elected leaders.

Or tried to have them assassinated.
Or succeeded in having them assassinated. Don't forget Allende, after all.

A letter writing campaign is interference, even if it isn't done by the government.

By your standard then, the Christian fundamentalists in the OP are doing nothing wrong because it's not the US government acting officially.

Next?
Okay, now go back through the entire thread and point out where I gave the ADF any grief over what they're doing. Don't make assumptions, DK--you only wind up looking stupid.

Okay, now go back through the entire thread and point out where I gave the ADF any grief over what they're doing. Don't make assumptions, DK--you only wind up looking stupid.
I'm not talking about you in particular - I'm talking about the posters who have said that the fundies are meddling.

Well, if they're meddling, then so are other people - readers of a UK newspaper, for instance.

Meddling, meddling, meddling. Perils of free speech and all that.

I see that a lot of people who like free speech don't want it to apply to fundies (more than half the posts in the thread).

I am sure the people most screwed over by American christian fundamentalist interference will continue to be poor African countries. A few cases are a drop in the ocean in the EU, and I can't see it having much of an effect. Hubris, delusions of grandeur, etc, I think.

I'm not talking about you in particular - I'm talking about the posters who have said that the fundies are meddling.

Well, if they're meddling, then so are other people - readers of a UK newspaper, for instance.

Meddling, meddling, meddling. Perils of free speech and all that.

I see that a lot of people who like free speech don't want it to apply to fundies (more than half the posts in the thread).

I only pointed out the obvious fact that people that try to force their religions down other people's throats are rapists.

I am sure the people most screwed over by American christian fundamentalist interference will continue to be poor African countries. A few cases are a drop in the ocean in the EU, and I can't see it having much of an effect. Hubris, delusions of grandeur, etc, I think.

Don't forget paranoia on the part of EU residents.

I'm not talking about you in particular - I'm talking about the posters who have said that the fundies are meddling.

Well, if they're meddling, then so are other people - readers of a UK newspaper, for instance.

Meddling, meddling, meddling. Perils of free speech and all that.

I see that a lot of people who like free speech don't want it to apply to fundies (more than half the posts in the thread).
Okay, for starters, you can't directly address a point I made and then try to say that you weren't talking to me. Doesn't work that way. You made an assumption and you were in error. Deal.

Secondly, I haven't seen anyone in the thread suggest that the ADF ought to be outlawed from doing what it's doing. There have been wishes that they wouldn't, but I have yet to see anyone actually say they should be forcibly stopped. I could have missed someone, but if I did, it wasn't a loud or persistent voice calling for it. Now, there are a lot of people who would like them to shut up, but there's a hell of a difference between wishing someone would shut up and trying to use force to shut them up.

Don't forget paranoia on the part of EU residents.
It's not paranoia when you explicitly dismiss the "threat" as imaginary. :rolleyes:

Okay, for starters, you can't directly address a point I made and then try to say that you weren't talking to me. Doesn't work that way. You made an assumption and you were in error. Deal.

Secondly, I haven't seen anyone in the thread suggest that the ADF ought to be outlawed from doing what it's doing. There have been wishes that they wouldn't, but I have yet to see anyone actually say they should be forcibly stopped. I could have missed someone, but if I did, it wasn't a loud or persistent voice calling for it. Now, there are a lot of people who would like them to shut up, but there's a hell of a difference between wishing someone would shut up and trying to use force to shut them up.


And where did I say "use force to shut them up"?

I'm not talking about you in particular - I'm talking about the posters who have said that the fundies are meddling.

Well, if they're meddling, then so are other people - readers of a UK newspaper, for instance.

Meddling, meddling, meddling. Perils of free speech and all that.

I see that a lot of people who like free speech don't want it to apply to fundies (more than half the posts in the thread).
Okay, but that's not an argument against the fact that they are meddling.

Okay, but that's not an argument against the fact that they are meddling.
If UK newspaper readers can meddle in a US Presidential election, then it's fine for the fundies in question to meddle where they are meddling.

What's good for US, is good for you, too.

If UK newspaper readers can meddle in a US Presidential election, then it's fine for the fundies in question to meddle where they are meddling.

What's good for US, is good for you, too.
How do you figure that if it's fine for one to do it it's fine for another to do it? If the UK jumped into a lake, would it be okay for the US to jump into a lake?

How do you figure that if it's fine for one to do it it's fine for another to do it? If the UK jumped into a lake, would it be okay for the US to jump into a lake?
During the US Presidential election, UK residents seemed astonished at the reaction of US voters - the UK residents thought it was OK to meddle.

So, I take it from this that UK residents (and any EU residents who thought the UK meddling was OK) like meddling, and could use more of it.

Not exactly the same statement you're making in your question. We see that they like meddling, so we send our fundies to meddle with them.

And where did I say "use force to shut them up"?
You said "I see that a lot of people who like free speech don't want it to apply to fundies (more than half the posts in the thread)."

That's at least a hint that you're suggesting people on this thread have said that fundies ought to be shut up, and since the only way to shut someone up who doesn't want to be shut up is to use force.....

During the US Presidential election, UK residents seemed astonished at the reaction of US voters - the UK residents thought it was OK to meddle.

So, I take it from this that UK residents (and any EU residents who thought the UK meddling was OK) like meddling, and could use more of it.

Not exactly the same statement you're making in your question. We see that they like meddling, so we send our fundies to meddle with them.
LOL.

Okay, so if the UK does something bad, it's to be assumed that they want something bad done to them?

You said "I see that a lot of people who like free speech don't want it to apply to fundies (more than half the posts in the thread)."

That's at least a hint that you're suggesting people on this thread have said that fundies ought to be shut up, and since the only way to shut someone up who doesn't want to be shut up is to use force.....

streeeeetch

LOL.

Okay, so if the UK does something bad, it's to be assumed that they want something bad done to them?
And how many times have we heard on this forum, "well, if the US tortures people and holds them without trial, maybe they should not be surprised if people treat US soldiers that way when captured"?

LOL

streeeeetch
Stop trolling. You are posting absolute crap with the aim of getting a reaction. Don't do it.

And how many times have we heard on this forum, "well, if the US tortures people and holds them without trial, maybe they should not be surprised if people treat US soldiers that way when captured"?

LOL
That really doesn't answer my question. :)

Just because others do something, does that make it right for you (or someone else) to do it also?

*zips her mouth (fingers)*

That really doesn't answer my question. :)

Just because others do something, does that make it right for you (or someone else) to do it also?
with deference to Tactical Grace...

If a party does something to others, such as meddling, they are, by their actions, tacitly agreeing to similar treatment. Whether they admit it or not, or agree or not.

with deference to Tactical Grace...

If a party does something to others, such as meddling, they are, by their actions, tacitly agreeing to similar treatment. Whether they admit it or not, or agree or not.
Holy cow...
Thank you.

I really don't think that there is anything wrong with not wanting to work on sundays for religious reasons. I do not see how this is a plot for "extremists" to take over politics or an attempt for America to intervine.

I really don't think that there is anything wrong with not wanting to work on sundays for religious reasons. I do not see how this is a plot for "extremists" to take over politics or an attempt for America to intervine.

His point is that it's a Christian US group trying to help a christian dude outside it based on ideology, whereas they surely wouldn't if the guy was from another religion.

His point is that it's a Christian US group trying to help a christian dude outside it based on ideology, whereas they surely wouldn't if the guy was from another religion.

Thats because US is a Christian nation with lots of money. I've seen Muslim countries fund muslim causes in England quite a few times but no one cares about them.

I really don't think that there is anything wrong with not wanting to work on sundays for religious reasons. I do not see how this is a plot for "extremists" to take over politics or an attempt for America to intervine.


Perhaps he shouldn't have acepted the job then eh? It's not the employers fault that the guy didn't inform them that if he accepted the job he would refuse to work on Sundays. Not only should they fire the guy, they should dock his pay for all the trouble, time and money he is causing them.

Hey, Maimed, where is my answer? What is wrong with the Netherlands? Where is proof that homosexual parents are a bad influence for kids? Where is proof that you have any skill at understanding written language? Why do you go to a discussion board in order to not discuss?
And why is either you or Deep Kimchi answering? ;)

Thats because US is a Christian nation with lots of money. I've seen Muslim countries fund muslim causes in England quite a few times but no one cares about them.

What worries some (at least, me) is that they will begin funding cases against homosexuals, wiccans, etc. based on religion. The muslims never did any such thing, but these fundies did so in the US. What's to say, then, that they don't want to export their "cause"?

What worries some (at least, me) is that they will begin funding cases against homosexuals, wiccans, etc. based on religion. The muslims never did any such thing, but these fundies did so in the US. What's to say, then, that they don't want to export their "cause"?

Even if they do fund such cases (which i doubt they will), they would never win.

What worries some (at least, me) is that they will begin funding cases against homosexuals, wiccans, etc. based on religion. The muslims never did any such thing, but these fundies did so in the US. What's to say, then, that they don't want to export their "cause"?
I would think they would wait until your country falls under Sharia law. Then they would kill the homosexuals, wiccans, etc.

On behalf of the world, I accept the USA's (through DCD and SB) apology. I kindly ask that you try to reign in your fundamentalist and we'll do the same.

As a token of goodwill, I apologize on behalf of the world for any meddling that might have happened in your elections. Again, we ask that you do the same.

Thank You for your time. ;)

On behalf of the world, I accept the USA's (through DCD and SB) apology. I kindly ask that you try to reign in your fundamentalist and we'll do the same.

As a token of goodwill, I apologize on behalf of the world for any meddling that might have happened in your elections. Again, we ask that you do the same.

Thank You for your time. ;)

I too apologize on behalf of the U.S. as a citizen, the U.N. as a staff member and Montreal as a former resident, lol.

I would think they would wait until your country falls under Sharia law. Then they would kill the homosexuals, wiccans, etc.

Brazil has less of a chance of becoming a theocracy than the US.

And, at any rate, what's your point? Are you saying that the fact that there are worse things makes it A-OK for them to try to shove their psychosis down my throat?

Brazil has less of a chance of becoming a theocracy than the US.


A full blown theocracy? Nahh

What about a quasi-theocracy?

If I were King of the world I would take every fundy from every Faith and place them all in the New State of Fundymania ...located in like siberia or the great white north of canada..it would be a 24 hr cable access reality TV pay per view..camera's in a public places....so the taxes would be very low .

see how they like being around fundies...they would eother be "cured" or they would just kill each other ...one way or another problem solved and make a few bucks .

It's a well known fact that christian extremists use the US political and legal system in an attempt to impose their beliefs and way of life on other Americans. Now they're funding similar attempts overseas. Sorry.


Don't apologize on behalf of the *entire* USA. It's those fundies that should apologize.:sniper:

I have a thought. Maybe this is the wrong place for it but here goes. What makes the US so great as to allow us to force the feelings of our fundementalists on to other cultures?

I mean really arn't we at war against what is quickly turning into the entire middle east because of their fundementalists?

What makes our fundies better then other fundies? just because they are ours? What flies here(sadly) may not work in another country and probably won't. We in America need to get off our ego trip and realize that we are not as great as we like to pretend.

*gets off of soap box*

Don't be apologizing for what isn't even your fault. Canadian geese shit all over the public parks in Boston, am I sorry for Bostonians? Of course not, not my fault they're like that... :rolleyes:

"It's crystal clear to us that unless we get involved in the outcome of foreign law then we're going to be at grave risk," says Bull. Ann Beeson, associate legal director at the American Civil Liberties Union, says "We now see regional and international human rights forums as simply another tool in the fight for social justice here in the United States."



What a wonderful way to stop the stereotype of meddling Fundimentalists. :headbang: :headbang:

If there is one thing in the modern age that will get Christians everywhere persecuted, it is this.

Which is EXACTLY what they want because persecution is the best fund-raising cry of all.

I can't believe your name is "Klitvilia". That's just a bit much....lol.

That's what Bolton is there for.

At this rate, the money is running out. Either the UN decides to go along with the reforms, or the Security Council (within the next two weeks) won't be able to meet, because they can't pay for the translators, staffers, etc.

Is it just me or does Bolton look like "Old Doc Hoovey", the mayor of Who-ville?

I made a T-shirt that says:

"HOW ABOUT THE KIDS AND I
KICK YOUR ASS AROUND THE
BLOCK AND THEN WE'LL SEE
HOW WELL YOU
FOCUS ON THE FAMILY"

:upyours:

I was just kidding. If I was in a position to hire and fire people I would make the decision based on whether I want to fuck her, not her religion.

LOL

It's a well known fact that christian extremists use the US political and legal system in an attempt to impose their beliefs and way of life on other Americans. Now they're funding similar attempts overseas. Sorry.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/060614/14foreignlaw.htm
I refuse to apologize for anything anyone else does. If someone has a problem with someone else, take it up with them. To everyone else: America allows freedom of religion. Get over it.

It's a well known fact that left-wing extremists in the Atheist Criminal Liberal Union, the sexual-deviant lobby and others use the US political and legal system in an attempt to impose their beliefs and way of life on other Americans.

Save your apologies, pal.

Props to the ADF.

:::smacks New Mitanni with her riding crop:::

Apology rescinded.

I'm here...what's the problem?

Well, if people at the UN are trying to rewrite the US Constitution, and want to take our guns away, then turnabout is fair play. I'd be happy to send them any idiot idea we have, and let them wrestle with the pigs.
You know, if you stopped getting your news from uninformed rants and shadow consperacies on the NRA page, you might start making sense.

DM already brought this one up, and it was already shot down.

You know, if you stopped getting your news from uninformed rants and shadow consperacies on the NRA page, you might start making sense.

DM already brought this one up, and it was already shot down.

You mean IANSA?



:eek:


Yes, they are an anti-American org.

F'em.

Agreed and employer needs to have work done at certian times on a certian schedule. if you as a worker are not qualified to do the job that the employer needs the employer has every right to go get a worker that will.

Not always. Especially in the UK where the guy is attempting to get Sundays off. . It's a whole different set of rules there.

As both an American citizen and a staff member in the Budget Division of the UN I'm caught right in the crossfire with this one. If only the reforms we as a nation are pushing on the UN would also be applied to our own wasteful government, I'd be very happy.wasteful Govs.. gotta hate them.. all of them.

I refuse to apologize for anything anyone else does. If someone has a problem with someone else, take it up with them. To everyone else: America allows freedom of religion. Get over it.

Agreed.

2) Yes I am a christian and I do try my best to live according to those principles. I do not support Abortion (except when the life of the mother is at stake), I do not support Gay Marriage (nor do I support the Federal Marriage Amendment) but I do support Civil Unions.

Of course - it could be argued that neither of those 'issues' ahs anything to do with christian principles in any BIBLICAL sense... more a 'political' matter for the modern church.

During the US Presidential election, UK residents seemed astonished at the reaction of US voters - the UK residents thought it was OK to meddle.

So, I take it from this that UK residents (and any EU residents who thought the UK meddling was OK) like meddling, and could use more of it.

Not exactly the same statement you're making in your question. We see that they like meddling, so we send our fundies to meddle with them.

It might be argued that a situation in which US Voters were reminded that their current foreign policy is ostracising them from their few remaining allies, and encouraged to take that into consideration when voting.... has little semblance of similarity with a situation in which US pressure groups directly promote legal actions in foreign nations, so as to encourage 'legal precedence' in international courts for fundamentalist legislation.

To attempt to compare the two, is to trivialise beyond reason... a degree of disparity akin to comparing Mother Theresa with Hamas.

I refuse to apologize for anything anyone else does. If someone has a problem with someone else, take it up with them. To everyone else: America allows freedom of religion. Get over it.

America allows freedom of religion.. this is true - well, assuming you are a Christian. But - the rest of the world doesn't have to allow America's 'free' fundamental fringe to screw around in their legal systems, no?

America allows freedom of religion.. this is true - well, assuming you are a Christian. But - the rest of the world doesn't have to allow America's 'free' fundamental fringe to screw around in their legal systems, no?
America allows freedom of religion for just about everybody. We've got members of every different faith and plenty of folks with no faith at all. Unfortunately a vocal minority among the majority Christians is making my country look like a nation of ignorant religious extremists, like Saudi Arabia.

America allows freedom of religion for just about everybody. We've got members of every different faith and plenty of folks with no faith at all. Unfortunately a vocal minority among the majority Christians is making my country look like a nation of ignorant religious extremists, like Saudi Arabia.

As am Atheist in Georgia, and as someone who knows a number of Wiccans, I think the US 'freedom of religion' is fine - on paper. Unfortunately, in reality - if you aren't a christian, you are free to BE any religion you choose... but you're going to pay for it.

As am Atheist in Georgia, and as someone who knows a number of Wiccans, I think the US 'freedom of religion' is fine - on paper. Unfortunately, in reality - if you aren't a christian, you are free to BE any religion you choose... but you're going to pay for it.
As an Athiest in New Jersey I don't run into any problems. Maybe the problem isn't that the US in general lacks freedom of religion, but that the bible belt lacks freedom of religion.

America allows freedom of religion.. this is true - well, assuming you are a Christian. But - the rest of the world doesn't have to allow America's 'free' fundamental fringe to screw around in their legal systems, no?
So? They are free to kick their asses out. Personally, I couldn't care less.

And your point about "assuming you are a Christian" is totally specious. How many synagogues are there in America? How many mosques? What about hindu and B'ahi temples? Have you seen any reports about Christians attacking the places of worship of any other religions? What about all the Atheists? Are they being locked up or something?

As an Athiest in New Jersey I don't run into any problems. Maybe the problem isn't that the US in general lacks freedom of religion, but that the bible belt lacks freedom of religion.
No, I live in the "Bible Belt" and no one here has been campaiging to outlaw mosques or synagogues or any other sort of religion's places of worship. The other day I saw a North Carolina license plate which said "S8nLives." That deifnitely demonstrates a "lack of freedom of religion." Riiiiight! :rolleyes:

No, I live in the "Bible Belt" and no one here has been campaiging to outlaw mosques or synagogues or any other sort of religion's places of worship. The other day I saw a North Carolina license plate which said "S8nLives." That deifnitely demonstrates a "lack of freedom of religion." Riiiiight! :rolleyes:
I was only responding to Grave N Idle who said

As am Atheist in Georgia, and as someone who knows a number of Wiccans, I think the US 'freedom of religion' is fine - on paper. Unfortunately, in reality - if you aren't a christian, you are free to BE any religion you choose... but you're going to pay for it.

So if he's seeing some discrimination there, he should know that it doesn't exist everywhere. Personally I've never lived in the bible belt. I've only visited places like North Carolina, Missouri, and Florida.

So? They are free to kick their asses out. Personally, I couldn't care less.

And your point about "assuming you are a Christian" is totally specious. How many synagogues are there in America? How many mosques? What about hindu and B'ahi temples? Have you seen any reports about Christians attacking the places of worship of any other religions? What about all the Atheists? Are they being locked up or something?

So - if you aren't being burned down there is no discrimination?

Maybe I don't 'act Christian enough'... but I certainly notice discrimination whenever it becomes apparent that I'm one of 'the Heathen'.

And, your preaching equality is never going to carry much weight while the christian theocracy controls issues like marriage.

So? They are free to kick their asses out. Personally, I couldn't care less.

And your point about "assuming you are a Christian" is totally specious. How many synagogues are there in America? How many mosques? What about hindu and B'ahi temples? Have you seen any reports about Christians attacking the places of worship of any other religions? What about all the Atheists? Are they being locked up or something?

Yep, we behead them all. Really. CNN and CBS just don't aire all the stories of Christians beheading people they don't like. Yep.

Heck, as Christian Fundamentalist I personally beheaded 6 of those evil atheists the other day! oooh it was sooooo gratifying!

:rolleyes:

Err...cough cough...ROP...cough cough....

I really don't think that there is anything wrong with not wanting to work on sundays for religious reasons. I do not see how this is a plot for "extremists" to take over politics or an attempt for America to intervine.
And I dont see where it is wrong that the employer fires an employee that is unwilling (for whatever reason) to do the work the employer needs

http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/christian/blfaq_viol_wicca.htm

And that is only the one about wicca, which happens to be numerous among occultists. A weaker occultist group is likely to suffer even more on the hands of these nice, pious Christians. Bearing in mind: I am not a wiccan, though I studied it. It's a pretty nice religion.

It's a well known fact that christian extremists use the US political and legal system in an attempt to impose their beliefs and way of life on other Americans. Now they're funding similar attempts overseas. Sorry.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/060614/14foreignlaw.htm

Meh... We've had them over here for quite a while, got a bit of attention when they got all excited over heavy-metal music in the 80's and then again later when they went out and to burn some Harry Potter stuff, but had to cancel because of bad attendance and rain :D
And after this time they still don't outnumber any other group of crazies at the bus-stops and they're smaller than even the wiccans... So theres no need to worry...
Don't know how it is in other parts of europe, but I haven't noticed it much.

Meh... We've had them over here for quite a while, got a bit of attention when they got all excited over heavy-metal music in the 80's and then again later when they went out and to burn some Harry Potter stuff, but had to cancel because of bad attendance and rain :D

*Sings* Ra-a-a-aaaaaain! I don't mi-ind! :D

And after this time they still don't outnumber any other group of crazies at the bus-stops and they're smaller than even the wiccans... So theres no need to worry...
Don't know how it is in other parts of europe, but I haven't noticed it much.

You're lucky there in England. In Brazil, the former governor of Rio is an evangelical nut that wanted to rape the Rio schools with creationism.

*Sings* Ra-a-a-aaaaaain! I don't mi-ind! :D



You're lucky there in England. In Brazil, the former governor of Rio is an evangelical nut that wanted to rape the Rio schools with creationism.

Sorry, forgot to mention: Not England, I'm in Iceland. I'm pretty sure England has plenty of the nutters.

Sorry, forgot to mention: Not England, I'm in Iceland. I'm pretty sure England has plenty of the nutters.

Ah! Iceland! Where the weather is cold and the water is hot! :D

(You have a BEAUTIFUL capital, at least from the picture I googled once.)

Ah! Iceland! Where the weather is cold and the water is hot! :D

(You have a BEAUTIFUL capital, at least from the picture I googled once.)

Brazil, where the weather is hot and the women are hot! (at least from the picture I googled once ) ;)

Brazil, where the weather is hot and the women are hot! (at least from the picture I googled once ) ;)

Haha, touché! :)

During the US Presidential election, UK residents seemed astonished at the reaction of US voters - the UK residents thought it was OK to meddle.

So, I take it from this that UK residents (and any EU residents who thought the UK meddling was OK) like meddling, and could use more of it.

Not exactly the same statement you're making in your question. We see that they like meddling, so we send our fundies to meddle with them.

Deep Kimchi, before the US election where the UK had their letter writing campaign, prominent Americans published articles in Canadian newspapers warning Canadians how to vote. American institutes have been funding all sides of Canadian political issues for decades. And oh yes, American politicians threaten us regularly if Canadian politicians consider bills that the US doesn't like.

Americans getting pissed at low-budget, low-impact letter writing campaigns should see what foreign political interference looks like from north of the 49th parallel.

It's a well known fact that christian extremists use the US political and legal system in an attempt to impose their beliefs and way of life on other Americans. Now they're funding similar attempts overseas. Sorry.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/060614/14foreignlaw.htm

Speaking of apologies, doesn't England owe us one for letting the Spice Girls escape? :upyours:

In Brazil, the former governor of Rio is an evangelical nut that wanted to rape the Rio schools with creationism.

But at least he won't get to be the next president, as his party have decided that they do not have a platform on which to base an election campaign!
(PMDB - LOL)

Speaking of apologies, doesn't England owe us one for letting the Spice Girls escape?

England owes the bloody world an apology for that.

Of course, we're responsible for Celine Dion and William Shatner, so I'll apologize for that right now.

sorry

England owes the bloody world an apology for that.

Of course, we're responsible for Celine Dion and William Shatner, so I'll apologize for that right now.

sorry

Heh heh. Boy did we get England back good for them, though. Madonna seems to have gotten it into her head that she's one of them, so now she's making their ears bleed instead of ours.

At least the Spice Girls quit, even if it was six years too late. Madonna just keeps coming back, like genital warts. :headbang:

England owes the bloody world an apology for that.

Of course, we're responsible for Celine Dion and William Shatner, so I'll apologize for that right now.

sorry
What's not to like about Bill?

I won't let anybody apologize for the magnificence that is William Shatner.

But at least he won't get to be the next president, as his party have decided that they do not have a platform on which to base an election campaign!
(PMDB - LOL)

Well, of course, somehow the guy thought that a hunger strike was a good idea to gather support for someone WITH power (as opposed to Ghandi, that didn't have power)... The result is he got f*cked. :p

i only skimmed the first page of posts, but, while perhaps american groups should stay out of international law, the case this article is actually about is the right to not work on a Sunday. I mean, this isn't anything particularly volatile like abortion or gay rights or anything. And the man should get unemployment benefits for having lost his job. If there is to be freedom of religion, we can't make someone choose between following their faith and earning a living.

What's not to like about Bill?

I won't let anybody apologize for the magnificence that is William Shatner.
Ohh his magnificence!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yerCiByca4&search=shatner

Of course - it could be argued that neither of those 'issues' ahs anything to do with christian principles in any BIBLICAL sense... more a 'political' matter for the modern church.

Yea you could but you can do so alone.

Ohh his magnificence!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yerCiByca4&search=shatner

There is no creative avenue William Shatner has gotten involved with where he did not, ultimately, profit from quite well in the end - regardless of his actual abilities in any of the following:


Though one of the most-parodied, stereotyped 'character' actors working today, and ill-considered in certain circles, William Shatner has nonetheless consistently found work and won acclaim (as well as derision) for his roles on television and film throughout his long career.



He cannot sing; he nonetheless has sold great numbers of popular albums.



Though not a writer by trade, he nonetheless is a best-selling suthor many times over.



Though not a director (and of this there can be no doubt whatsoever) Star Trek V: The Final Frontier still made money for Paramount.



And incidentally, thanks to syndication and foreign distribution, Shatner's image is easily one of the most recognized throughout the planet, and has been for decades. He continues to keep his maturing public image afloat, particularly as a thoroughly successful, if shameless TV shill for dozens of products, services, and companies.


William Shatner reminds me of J.R. "Bob" Dobbs - Bob cruises the Luck-Plane every waking minute (and probably every restive minute, too). It's said that every time Bob fucks up, he makes a million dollars. They aren't necessarily brilliant men; but they are undeniably lucky. This is because they can directly channel their Slack into whatever they happen to do.

Love 'em or hate 'em, matters not. They're who they are; and at the end of the day, none of us is Bill. Except Bill (http://www.fantasfilm.com/image/s-star-trek-classic-shatner.jpg). Same for Bob. Except he's made of dots (http://www.subgenius.com/bigfist/pics2/logoart/dobbs6x9.GIF).

Yea you could but you can do so alone.

That's your entire rebuttal? That's pretty weak...

England owes the bloody world an apology for that.

Of course, we're responsible for Celine Dion and William Shatner, so I'll apologize for that right now.

sorry
No need to apologize for Shatner, he's awesome! He seems like the kind of guy who would gladly come party with you if you called him up, despite being a celebrity.

Apologize? I apologize for nothing! I am damn proud of the USA and damn proud of most of what we do. These lawyers are just doing their job; it's not like they're invading and imposing American law. They simply argue on one side, the secularists argue on the other, and it's still the court's decision.

So they're starting to do what every other international liberal organiztion has been doing for years and you think this is strange.

Liberal mindset equals = Keep and open mind, just as long as you agree with me.

I'm not a big fan of fundementalists, but liberal hypocrisy pisses me off more.

Oh, right. THAT'S why there are liberal organizations outside the US fighting against creationism inside it, right?

Wait, there AREN'T ANY!