NationStates Jolt Archive

There are some instances where if the public know the truth, they will be unhappy.
Is it more important to make the public happy or to tell them the truth?
Is the truth always useful?
If it were the truth that we are all being comtroled by evil aliens who will eat our souls after we die(extreme I know)would you rather be happy in life not knowing the truth, or is the truth the highest good?
I dont know, I can see the reason in both arguements.
What do you think,is truth more important than utility, or is utility more important than truth?

Truth is overated.

You're making some very philosophical threads tonight. :)

I think the truth is always the best policy.

Truth is more important than utility, if you are administered.

The reverse applies if you are burdened with the administration.

You're making some very philosophical threads tonight. :)

I think the truth is always the best policy.
yeah, im in that kind of mood.

Truth is more important than utility, if you are administered.

The reverse applies if you are burdened with the administration.
So what secrets are you and the other mods keeping from us?

In almost all circumstances, truth. But I can see exceptions.

So what secrets are you and the other mods keeping from us?
The Jolt server rental is paid for by the US NSA in return for letting them use the General Forum to calibrate Echelon.

Truth, or the possession of it, is a utility. It allows us to effectively adapt to our environment and provides us with the information necessary to solve the problems related to our survival and happiness.

Too add to my original statement:

"Ignorance is bliss"

I only agree with this in exceptional circumstances of course.

In almost all circumstances, truth. But I can see exceptions.
like what?

The Jolt server rental is paid for by the US NSA in return for letting them use the General Forum to calibrate Echelon.
*shudders*

Damn that's a cold chill that just ran my spine.;)

There are some instances where if the public know the truth, they will be unhappy.
Is it more important to make the public happy or to tell them the truth?
Is the truth always useful?
If it were the truth that we are all being comtroled by evil aliens who will eat our souls after we die(extreme I know)would you rather be happy in life not knowing the truth, or is the truth the highest good?
I dont know, I can see the reason in both arguements.
What do you think,is truth more important than utility, or is utility more important than truth?

Well if we knew about the alien soul eaters maybe we could make our souls taste of marmite instead of chicken and they might eat something else. Or at least put them off of food or give them belly aches. Something is better than nothing
I vote truth.

like what?

Like it will cause the population to enter a huge state of depression and the problem can never be found.

I downloaded a truth utility. So I'm covered.

If we had truth we wouldn't have this War on Drugs.

I tend to think that in most cases deception is counter-productive. I think that there are few (if any) cases where the widespread deception of the public is (on the balance of all factors) in the best interests of the public. The with-holding of information being in the public's interest is very probably less of a rarity, but a rarity none-the-less.

like what?

If it would cause unnecessary involuntary death. Or if you know the person wouldn't want to be told, and she doesn't need to be.

Depends if I'm talking about for me or for other people.

Truth for me. I'm not confident, however, that the unwashed villagers are going to make smart decisions even when presented wth all the information.

Well if we knew about the alien soul eaters maybe we could make our souls taste of marmite instead of chicken and they might eat something else. Or at least put them off of food or give them belly aches. Something is better than nothing
I vote truth.
Touche!
I guess if you know the truth, you can at least do something about it!

Trick question.

Complete truth has complete utility. Unfortunately, even a shred of truth is elusive.

Trick question.

Complete truth has complete utility. Unfortunately, even a shred of truth is elusive.
Too true, and even when we find the 'truth' its not alwatys garunteed to be the whole truth-just the truth from one persons perspective.

Okay, what if someone knew for certain that there was no meaning to life, at all!
would you rather we all know and give up now, or would you rather keep believing in whatever you believe and be happy and not feel like everything is pointless?

Okay, what if someone knew for certain that there was no meaning to life, at all!
would you rather we all know and give up now, or would you rather keep believing in whatever you believe and be happy and not feel like everything is pointless?

If life has no inherent meaning, I would like to know that so I can give it meaning.

That would go well in that other thread.

Utility - if it makes you happy
Truth - systematically making happiness better next time?

If life has no inherent meaning, I would like to know that so I can give it meaning.
That is a good point.I guess if everyone found out some would give up-but some would make more of an effort to give their lives meaning.

Okay, what if someone knew for certain that there was no meaning to life, at all!
would you rather we all know and give up now, or would you rather keep believing in whatever you believe and be happy and not feel like everything is pointless?

I disagree with the premise, there. I usually sneer at these people, but that actually is a case where "everything is relative."

On the original question, I would lean slightly towards disclosure of information. Usually, which facts are "harmful" is defined by those able to disclose them. Unless there is some kind of capital-T Truth Dispensing superbeing, information will be suppressed based on it's utility to those in power, not on it's effect on the population as a whole.

I disagree with the premise, there. I usually sneer at these people, but that actually is a case where "everything is relative."

On the original question, I would lean slightly towards disclosure of information. Usually, which facts are "harmful" is defined by those able to disclose them. Unless there is some kind of capital-T Truth Dispensing superbeing, information will be suppressed based on it's utility to those in power, not on it's effect on the population as a whole.

THe truth is only harmful to those who hold power.
I cant remember who said this to me but it may have been my philosophy teacher.
Can anyone actually think of a situation where truth may make people unhappy and where it would be more useful to keep the truth hidden.
I lean towards the idea that truth has a utility of its own

THe truth is only harmful to those who hold power.
I cant remember who said this to me but it may have been my philosophy teacher.
Can anyone actually think of a situation where truth may make people unhappy and where it would be more useful to keep the truth hidden.
I lean towards the idea that truth has a utility of its own

Hm...

"You are going to die rather suddenly of a stroke in the next few days and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it."

or even

"The world is going to end suddenly this time next week and there is nothing you can do about it except panic"

more socially

"Your designated national hero was actually a mass murderer."

or

"That far-off country your father has gone to on a long holiday is actually the local jail."

Some people would rather not know. I think I would. But we keep making little lies...

As for truth and power, very true. Hence the anti-clerical sentiment in so many parts of the world when the feudal order started to wobble. "Hang on... heaven was only a mythical mechanism of social control? Those robed scoundrels..."

What's the point of knowing the truth? Tell me honestly! If you're happier not knowing the truth, then why do you want to? Do you NOT want to be happy?

What's the point of knowing the truth? Tell me honestly! If you're happier not knowing the truth, then why do you want to? Do you NOT want to be happy?
I dont know whether I would rather be happy or know the truth.It depends on the situation
for example, when I was young I believed in god, I was happy.I then began questioning, studies religious philosophy in coleege and now I dont know either way whether god exists-I am strangly not as happy as when I believed that god was directing my life.But alternativly I do not feel duped.(I am not claiming in any wasy that god non existence is the 'truth' its an example)
I dont know whether I would be happier if I hadnt questiones, but thats just me, but this is what Im talking about.Is ignorance bliss?

Truth is the essential thing. But there are times one needs to hide the truth: to defeat an enemy, to maintain civility, or similar. In these cases though, it's material truths that are disguised, not eternal/philosophic truths.

The truth that is necessary has this disadvantage of not being agreed on. Where did we come from? Why are we here? Does it matter? Other truth is important, of course, but it can acceptably be bent to acheive a higher goal.