NationStates Jolt Archive


The New Cold War Has Begun

The Niaman
20-06-2006, 19:56
Well, we had a good 17 year run...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13361343/

Wary of N. Korea, U.S. activates defense system
Officials fear Pyongyang is preparing test of long-range missile

Updated: 9:31 a.m. MT June 20, 2006
SEOUL, South Korea - The United States has moved its ground-based interceptor missile defense system from test mode to operational amid concerns over an expected North Korean missile launch, a U.S. defense official said Tuesday.

“It’s good to be ready,” the official told Reuters news agency. The step was first reported late Monday by NBC News and was reported in Tuesday's Washington Times newspaper.

U.S. officials say evidence such as satellite pictures suggests Pyongyang may have finished fueling a Taepodong-2 missile, which some experts said could reach the United States.

“There’s real caution in how to characterize it so as to not be provocative in our own approach,” the defense official said of the move to activate the system.

The Pentagon and U.S. State Department have said a North Korean missile launch would be seen as “provocative.”

While military officials also note the United States has a limited missile defense system — 12 interceptor missiles in Alaska and California — they have so far declined to comment on any details about the capabilities or potential use of the system to intercept a North Korean missile.

International warnings
The news comes as North Korea declared it is free to conduct missile tests despite a self-imposed moratorium, saying it is not bound by prior agreements and that outsiders have no right to criticize its actions.

Before the latest statement, North Korea’s apparent moves toward test launching a long-range ballistic missile already spiked tensions in the region and drew warnings of serious repercussions from the United States and others.

Australia on Tuesday strengthened its warning to North Korea, saying Canberra could downgrade diplomatic ties with Pyongyang if the launch goes ahead.

In Paris, French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin said any North Korean missile test must draw “firm and just” international response. United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan urged North Korean leaders for restraint.

“I hope that the leaders of North Korea will listen to and hear what the world is saying. We are all worried,” said Annan, who was in Paris to attend the inauguration of a new museum.

Earlier Tuesday, North Korea lashed out at the United States over its plans to build a missile defense shield but did not directly address concerns that it was preparing to test-fire a missile capable of reaching the United States.

Timing of launch
There were conflicting reports about whether a missile launch was imminent.

Japan’s public broadcaster NHK said Tuesday that satellite images showed fueling vehicles still positioned around the suspected launch site in the country’s northeast, but workers spotted near the head of the missile Monday weren’t visible Tuesday.

The launch site appears to be guarded by about 1,000 troops, the report added.

U.S. officials in Washington said Monday the missile was apparently fully assembled and fueled, but Japan’s Deputy Chief Cabinet Secretary Jinen Nagase said Tuesday he could not confirm that fueling had been completed.

South Korea’s spy agency also believes North Korea hasn’t yet completed fueling the rocket because the 40 fuel tanks seen around a launch site weren’t enough to fuel a projectile estimated to be 65 tons, Yonhap news agency reported, quoting lawmakers who attended an intelligence briefing.

Bad weather over the purported launch site also dimmed chances of an immediate launch. The area was cloudy, with rain expected through Wednesday morning, said South’s Korea Meteorological Administration.

N. Korea: Not bound by treaty
Kyodo News quoted an unidentified official from the North Korean Foreign Ministry as saying that Pyongyang did not regard itself as bound by prior agreements to refrain from missile testing.

“Our actions are not bound by the Pyongyang Declaration, the joint declaration made at the six-party talks in September last year or any other statements,” Kyodo quoted the official as telling Japanese reporters in North Korea.

Experts say that North Korea's muscle-flexing is well calculated — partly to compete with Iran for world attention and partly to take advantage of political weakness in South Korea's government and encourage further concessions from President Roh — which in turn could widen a rift between the U.S. and South Korea.

The U.S. has few economic levers to pressure North Korea — sanctions are already comprehensive. And North Korea ended up gaining after its previous missile test eight years ago in terms of securing a summit with South Korea and the resumption of negotiations with the six party talks.

But those talks have gone nowhere and North Korea has yet to get its two key demands — security guarantees from the West and resolution of the Korean War armistice.

— Andrea Mitchell, NBC News Chief Foreign Affairs correspondent


The official said his remarks represented Pyongyang’s official line on the matter, Kyodo said.

There was nothing in Tuesday’s Kyodo report to explain Pyongyang’s declaration.

An agreement reached at six-party nuclear disarmament talks in September does not specifically address missile tests by the North. However, negotiators pledged to work toward establishing peace in the region. The six countries participating in the talks — the two Koreas, China, Japan, Russia and the United States — also agreed to work toward normalizing relations.

Three years earlier, North Korea and Japan agreed to a moratorium on missile tests. Signed by Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi and North Korean leader Kim Jong Il, the Pyongyang Declaration said the two countries agreed on cooperation to maintain and strengthen the peace and stability of Northeast Asia. It also stated that North Korea “would further maintain the moratorium on missile launching in and after 2003.”

On Monday, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice warned the North that it will face consequences if it launches a missile, calling it a “very serious matter.”

Pyongyang lashes out at U.S.
North Korea responded Tuesday by saying that U.S. moves to build a missile shield are fueling a dangerous arms race in space.

“The world is not allowed to avert its face from the grave situation in which it is facing the danger of a nuclear shower from the blue sky,” the North’s Minju Joson newspaper wrote in a commentary, according to the country’s Korean Central News Agency.

North Korea also criticized a Japanese move to buy missiles and associated equipment from the U.S. to upgrade its missile defense system, claiming it showed an intent to become “a military giant” and mount “overseas aggression,” the North’s main newspaper, Rodong Sinmun, said in commentary carried by KCNA.

As tensions grew, meanwhile, the U.S. staged war games in the western Pacific on Tuesday with 22,000 troops, 280 aircraft and three aircraft carriers.

U.S. officials have said the missile, believed to be a Taepodong-2, has a firing range of 9,300 miles and could reach as far as the U.S. West Coast. Most analysts, however, say North Korea is still a long way from perfecting technology that would make the missile accurate and capable of carrying a nuclear payload.

The North’s missile program has been a major security concern in the region, adding to worries about its pursuit of nuclear bombs. North Korea shocked its neighbors when it test-fired an earlier missile version over northern Japan in 1998.
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Now we're just waiting for Iran to hop on board (if they haven't already).

It's the End of the World as we know it...And I feel fine.

*jumps out the door to go build a bomb shelter*
North Appalachia
20-06-2006, 19:58
snip -
*jumps out the door to go build a bomb shelter*

Bomb shelter for what? Neither Iran nor North Korea can reach us (assuming you are American).

Seems like a lot of effort for something useless.
New Granada
20-06-2006, 19:59
A new cold war with whom?

Our vital economic parnter, China?

The backwards, poverty-stricken, starving, technological wasteland of the DPRK?
Tactical Grace
20-06-2006, 20:01
A cold war against a starving country that doesn't have enough firewood?

Uh-huh.

Why don't you save the last shreds of your dignity and just pay Russia to pretend to be evil again? :rolleyes:
The Niaman
20-06-2006, 20:01
A new cold war with whom?

Our vital economic parnter, China?

The backwards, poverty-stricken, starving, technological wasteland of the DPRK?

Nope. Just another Nuke standoff.

And don't kid yourself- China is not America's friend. They'll play nice for awhile, but mark my words, when they feel ready, they'll strike. It's only a matter of time. They'll use our HUGE debt to them as a pretext.
New Burmesia
20-06-2006, 20:03
BIG difference: in the cold war the USSR didn't rely on the West for almost every trade it had. The US/EU and China are too dependent on each other for more than just huffing and puffing at each other.
Dobbsworld
20-06-2006, 20:03
If you ask me, it's been a crap 17 years.
Byrrilium
20-06-2006, 20:04
oh great. you can bet that blairs going to drag britain into this as well... why do we brits have to suffer for USA's problems?
Gravlen
20-06-2006, 20:04
Meh.
Skinny87
20-06-2006, 20:05
Meh.

QFT
The Niaman
20-06-2006, 20:06
BIG difference: in the cold war the USSR didn't rely on the West for almost every trade it had. The US/EU and China are too dependent on each other for more than just huffing and puffing at each other.

Are you kidding? If the US economy collapsed, Europe and Canada would go down with us. China would be hurt, but they'd rebound. They are a powerhouse. Nobody can deny they are an emerging superpower. Sure, we buy their stuff, but if we didn't, they'd find somebody else. Even Africa would work well for them. Besides, North Korea is a puppet of China, it wouldn't dare do anything without Chinese approval. They get their orders from Bejing
Dobbsworld
20-06-2006, 20:09
oh great. you can bet that blairs going to drag britain into this as well... why do we brits have to suffer for USA's problems?
My long-standing suspicion has been that GWB & Co. have some of the worst dirt imaginable on Blair - though what that dirt entails, I could only guess at.
North Appalachia
20-06-2006, 20:10
Are you kidding? If the US economy collapsed, Europe and Canada would go down with us. China would be hurt, but they'd rebound. They are a powerhouse. Nobody can deny they are an emerging superpower. Sure, we buy their stuff, but if we didn't, they'd find somebody else. Even Africa would work well for them. Besides, North Korea is a puppet of China, it wouldn't dare do anything without Chinese approval. They get their orders from Bejing

riiiiight...

that's why China is involved with talks to get the North Koreans to cooperate instead of just calling Kim Jong-Il and going "shut the fuck up."
The Niaman
20-06-2006, 20:14
riiiiight...

that's why China is involved with talks to get the North Koreans to cooperate instead of just calling Kim Jong-Il and going "shut the fuck up."

They're probably on the phone right now....:eek:
Corneliu
20-06-2006, 20:14
oh great. you can bet that blairs going to drag britain into this as well... why do we brits have to suffer for USA's problems?

You actually believe that we are in a cold war with North Korea? You need your head examined.
Teh_pantless_hero
20-06-2006, 20:15
Neither Japan or S. Korea will say the rocket is fueled but the US says it is? Sounds like the US is itching to blow something up.
Ultraextreme Sanity
20-06-2006, 20:16
Beware the hords of starving midgets with huge firecrackers massing at the borders .
UCLE
20-06-2006, 20:17
Nope. Just another Nuke standoff.

And don't kid yourself- China is not America's friend. They'll play nice for awhile, but mark my words, when they feel ready, they'll strike. It's only a matter of time. They'll use our HUGE debt to them as a pretext.

I agree whole heartley. china will attack and take over american with out even firing a shot. They will consume us economicaly buy all of our companies and lets not kid our selves but there even stronger than we are militarly. I agree with that.

As for N.Korea, we could solve the problem with a bunch of gunships that will fire a on that invincabe wall the north build along the dmz and then we invade. Thats how we can fix them.
Corneliu
20-06-2006, 20:18
I agree whole heartley. china will attack and take over american with out even firing a shot. They will consume us economicaly buy all of our companies and lets not kid our selves but there even stronger than we are militarly. I agree with that.

Stronger than us militarily? What have you been smokin?
Franberry
20-06-2006, 20:25
I agree whole heartley. china will attack and take over american with out even firing a shot. They will consume us economicaly buy all of our companies and lets not kid our selves but there even stronger than we are militarly. I agree with that.
The military of the USA is the most strongest in the world, the Chinise might beat them in the area of quantity, but everywhere else the USA beats them



As for N.Korea, we could solve the problem with a bunch of gunships that will fire a on that invincabe wall the north build along the dmz and then we invade. Thats how we can fix them.
No need for violence, well, maybe a little bit

If anyone invaved North Korea, there would be mass defections and then all we gotta do is introduce them to Democracy, and things like electricity
Ultraextreme Sanity
20-06-2006, 20:26
I agree whole heartley. china will attack and take over american with out even firing a shot. They will consume us economicaly buy all of our companies and lets not kid our selves but there even stronger than we are militarly. I agree with that.

As for N.Korea, we could solve the problem with a bunch of gunships that will fire a on that invincabe wall the north build along the dmz and then we invade. Thats how we can fix them.

China cant find its own ass yet . Call me in about 50 years when the rest of the billions of peasants get to see the divide between themselves and the new " Capitalist / communist class...after THAT mess gets sorted out ...if there is a country left ...maybe then they can send us a bill we will gladly pay over the next million yeears or so ...:p
Teh_pantless_hero
20-06-2006, 20:26
The military of the USA is the most strongest in the world
But obviously not their english.
The South Islands
20-06-2006, 20:27
Electricity?!

Counterrevolutionary Kapitalist propaganda, you mean.
The South Islands
20-06-2006, 20:27
But obviously not their english.

You don't need good English skills if you happen to have a large army.
Ultraextreme Sanity
20-06-2006, 20:28
But obviously not their english.


Our English are doing a right fine job ! Dont insult Tony and the boys...;)
Franberry
20-06-2006, 20:28
But obviously not their english.
I am confused as to what you're triying to say
Byrrilium
20-06-2006, 20:29
You actually believe that we are in a cold war with North Korea? You need your head examined.

were not involved in a cold war. but if george bush wants a war, then by god hes going to have a war even if the koreans sned him a lifetime supply of puppies and chocolate. it doesnt matter if nothings actually wrong, if the US wants a war theres going to be one, and bushes "boyfirned" blair will do whatever he says.

Are you kidding? If the US economy collapsed, Europe and Canada would go down with us.

why? we use a different currency, of which the pound sterling, by the way, is currentlly stronger than the dollar. most of eurpoe have no beef with these people, so they should be ok. england might be in trouble though. the only impact will be a slight damage to the movies and technology markets.
New Burmesia
20-06-2006, 20:29
Electricity?!

Counterrevolutionary Kapitalist propaganda, you mean.

Electricity? Who are you, and why should you be asking about Electricity, comrade?
Eskertania
20-06-2006, 20:30
oh great. you can bet that blairs going to drag britain into this as well... why do we brits have to suffer for USA's problems?
Yeah I know it's like we're both part of the UN or something!
and it's not like the US helped you out when you had your problems, say, World Wars!

The US and Britain have "suffered from" eachother's problems for the past 100 years or so, and that works both ways. Where've you been?

- Eskertania
Deep Kimchi
20-06-2006, 20:31
A cold war against a starving country that doesn't have enough firewood?

Uh-huh.

Why don't you save the last shreds of your dignity and just pay Russia to pretend to be evil again? :rolleyes:
It probably takes everything North Korea can muster to build a few rockets and a few nuclear weapons.

And those are probably nowhere near what most modern countries would consider a modern ICBM with a modern nuclear weapon aboard.

We're talking about a country that hasn't been able to master the Pilkington method of creating float glass, and that process is public knowledge.
The South Islands
20-06-2006, 20:31
Electricity? Who are you, and why should you be asking about Electricity, comrade?
I know nothing about this "Electricity". The party has not invented it yet, so it does not exist. Anything else is US Imperialist lies.
Ultraextreme Sanity
20-06-2006, 20:33
You REALLY want to wipe out the NK ...send them British food....that will teach them !:p
Byrrilium
20-06-2006, 20:33
fiirst of, USA only had a part in the wars when something of thiers was in danger. had the USA been left alone then i would be clicking my heels, rasiing my arm and shouting "Her Kaiser!" whilst under watch of SS gaurds right now. 2, the americans have a great history, but latley Bush has been driving it into the gutter. britian is going down the toilet as all our money is going ot the war in iraq to supply soliders, most of which dont even thik they should be there! also, a fair amout of the first wave of british renforcemtns to Iraq were killed in friendly fire from USA's AA emplacments.
The Niaman
20-06-2006, 20:33
Stronger than us militarily? What have you been smokin?

They have more man power. As soon as they have our tech capabilities- we're a roasted duck.
Deep Kimchi
20-06-2006, 20:33
Neither Japan or S. Korea will say the rocket is fueled but the US says it is? Sounds like the US is itching to blow something up.
The point of a "missile defense" system is to blow up the enemy missile in flight. Not while it's on the ground.

From an ethical and moral standpoint, it's not the same as flying over North Korea and turning the country into a smoking glass crater.

Although, if the missile ends up being intercepted while still over North Korean soil, I hope that the North Koreans didn't put salvage fusing in the warhead. Otherwise, they may nuke themselves - the most brilliant "own goal" the world will see.
The South Islands
20-06-2006, 20:34
They have more man power. As soon as they have our tech capabilities- we're a roasted duck.

The Party says that roast duck does not exist.
WangWee
20-06-2006, 20:35
OMG ITS TEH NUKESORZ!!!11!

Bert the turtle knows what to do.
The Niaman
20-06-2006, 20:35
The point of a "missile defense" system is to blow up the enemy missile in flight. Not while it's on the ground.

From an ethical and moral standpoint, it's not the same as flying over North Korea and turning the country into a smoking glass crater.

Although, if the missile ends up being intercepted while still over North Korean soil, I hope that the North Koreans didn't put salvage fusing in the warhead. Otherwise, they may nuke themselves - the most brilliant "own goal" the world will see.

I love you :fluffle:
The Niaman
20-06-2006, 20:36
Bert the turtle knows what to do.
I didn't post that!!!!!!!! What do you take me for? A.... never mind......
Andaluciae
20-06-2006, 20:41
If you ask me, it's been a crap 17 years.
Better than the previous 90, though.
Mooseica
20-06-2006, 20:47
were not involved in a cold war. but if george bush wants a war, then by god hes going to have a war even if the koreans sned him a lifetime supply of puppies and chocolate. it doesnt matter if nothings actually wrong, if the US wants a war theres going to be one, and bushes "boyfirned" blair will do whatever he says.



why? we use a different currency, of which the pound sterling, by the way, is currentlly stronger than the dollar. most of eurpoe have no beef with these people, so they should be ok. england might be in trouble though. the only impact will be a slight damage to the movies and technology markets.


Wow - your knowledge of basic economics is almost as atsounding as your grammar. Ever heard of the Great Depression? Happened around the 1920-1930s period, involved... well pretty much everyone basically, and a very diverse spread of currencies. Economic collapse in such a major player as the US will create equally massive depressions in all the coutries it trades with.

As for the whole Cold War business... meh, bovvered. It'll happen or it won't, there's not much I can do about it except hope the result is as satisfactory as the last time.
Dobbsworld
20-06-2006, 20:48
Better than the previous 90, though.
Robot monkeys - attack!

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j315/crashcow/NSG/robot_monkeys.jpg
New Granada
21-06-2006, 01:16
Nope. Just another Nuke standoff.

And don't kid yourself- China is not America's friend. They'll play nice for awhile, but mark my words, when they feel ready, they'll strike. It's only a matter of time. They'll use our HUGE debt to them as a pretext.


Dumb and dumber

The cold war wasnt a "nuke standoff," it was a protracted arms race and series of proxy wars between exactly-evenly-matched superpowers.

I can see how it would be in china's interest to ruin its economy completely and turn its population against its government by attacking the US and using its "huge debt as a pretext" (whatever that means).

Actually I can't, because it doesnt make any kind of sense.
The Black Forrest
21-06-2006, 01:19
Why don't you save the last shreds of your dignity and just pay Russia to pretend to be evil again? :rolleyes:

You aren't evil? :eek:
Aryavartha
21-06-2006, 02:05
It probably takes everything North Korea can muster to build a few rockets and a few nuclear weapons.

And those are probably nowhere near what most modern countries would consider a modern ICBM with a modern nuclear weapon aboard.

We're talking about a country that hasn't been able to master the Pilkington method of creating float glass, and that process is public knowledge.

About a year back, N.Korea obtained a transfer of technology from China to manufacture.......bicycles.

This development and ANY development in N.Korea has to be viewed with the Chinese in mind, because the N.Koreans are their cat's paw.
DesignatedMarksman
21-06-2006, 02:34
A new cold war with whom?

Our vital economic parnter, China?

The backwards, poverty-stricken, starving, technological wasteland of the DPRK?

Somehow the DPRK managed to invade and conquer 90% of SK back in the day, and they were a lot worse off then...

The DPRK is a turd world toilet.
New Granada
21-06-2006, 02:35
Somehow the DPRK managed to invade and conquer 90% of SK back in the day, and they were a lot worse off then...

The DPRK is a turd world toilet.


Yeah, because back then we had 10x the air power and 50x as many troops on the 10x bigger DMZ, and the koreans had only 1/4th the chinese troops that they do now.

Jesus christ :rolleyes:
The Black Forrest
21-06-2006, 02:52
Yeah, because back then we had 10x the air power and 50x as many troops on the 10x bigger DMZ, and the koreans had only 1/4th the chinese troops that they do now.

Jesus christ :rolleyes:

The Chinese are still there? I thought they left?