NationStates Jolt Archive

It seems that the North has finally decided to start it's long-range missile tests, which could go as far as Alaska, India and Indonesia. (Link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/5098984.stm)) Considering that we feed most of their population (So much for Juche), and that they consider any cuts and sanctions by the UN to be an act of war (link, at April 24th 03 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction)) what should we do? After all, they signed agreements saying that they wouldn't develop WMDs, and have said they could use them. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11942973/)

It would seem a little hypocritical to declare war in Iraq that, it turned out, had no WMDs and then turn around and tell NK that they can. (Or not say they can't)

So, when would it be acceptable to start regime change up north? Despite despising war and agression, if NK wants to play brinkmanship, they have to start paying the price, either through sanctions or milirary action, if the North sees it that way. Either way, the current situation is impossible to maintain in the long term.

Invade the country in one swift surprise attack and enslave the population. It worked for the old Romans.

Send them grain contaminated with ergot. It may not solve the problem, but it would be fun to see what happens when Lil' Kim gets accused of witchcraft.

They could just be bluffing or inflating what they have. Shouldnt jump to conclusions, thats what happened in Iraq and that worked out real well didnt it.

Invite them 'round for dinner and charades.

Maybe.... we could not do something? Simply declare that any NK WMD attack will be followed by precise strategic glassing of north korea, and leave it there.

Americans seem to have this belief that nations will try piecemeal WMD attacks on them, even though the nation would be completely obliterated in retaliation.

Let's just make this quick and painless as possible.

NUKE 'EM, Nuke us, and everybody make sure you die in the blast, rather than wait for the fallout to kill you.

:mp5: :( :gundge: :fluffle: :confused: :eek: :mad: :cool: :sniper:

Maybe.... we could not do something? Simply declare that any NK WMD attack will be followed by precise strategic glassing of north korea, and leave it there.

Americans seem to have this belief that nations will try piecemeal WMD attacks on them, even though the nation would be completely obliterated in retaliation.
I don't claim to know what goes on in our illustrious leader's mind, or what messages Jesus is sending him lately, but perhaps the problem with nuclear weapons is not that they'll be used against us, but that they grant a certain level of immunity to a nation that has them and that immunity could protect them from the consequences of international crime and terrorism. For example, N. Korea is known to kidnap people, sell methamphetamine throughout Asia, and counterfeit currency from other nations. With nukes they could step up such actions and expect no military consequences.

Short of nuking the country, there is nothing you can do to make it worse than it already is.

Well, we could just leave them alone. The only reason they want such weapons is because they're scared shitless that the US will bomb them. They know that no US leader is insane enough to risk declaring war on a nation which could nuke US soil or US allies.

At the same time, we need to realize that their leaders are quite interested in remaining alive and in power. The idea that the DPRK would use their weapons in a first strike capacity(or give them to terrorists) is ludicrious, because it's antithetical to that goal of staying alive.

EDIT - Chellis beat me to it.

The problem is how to deal with it. As we have a firm believe in the fact that they have w.m.d and will proably use them if we attack on the other hand the intellicene on they matter is poor at best as north koera is extremly privite and we can't just keep saying that countries have wmd's just because we dislike their type of goverment (even though they have corrupted Marx dream) the best idea would be to sit down with them and china as I have no doubt will be involved as well and draw up some sort of treaty that has both sides backing down and possibly cleaning up that minefeild the un left behind.

Okay, then - if not dinner and charades, how about tea in the garden followed by croquet on the lawn?

Get Republic of Korea (SK) to evacuate important people (if any). then bomb the cr*p out of NK. Of course though, whoever the president would be assaulted by accusations, but hey, you can't make everyone happy. Then after we rehabilitate the NK's we let SK take over. I beleive their military is sufficient to hold off any inseurgencies.

EDIT- agree with Chellis too

Blackmail them by stealing all of their kimchi.

wave a big pointy finger at them and say "Bad North Koreans...bad...", stick them in timeout, and then just ignore them while they throw an infantile temper tantrum because we aren't giving them enough attention or acknowledging the infinite power they possess with their singular warhead.

*trembles*

Heh, you forget that the capital of South Korea is almost on the border. You can't nuke the North Korean artillery without irradiating it.

Okay, then - if not dinner and charades, how about tea in the garden followed by croquet on the lawn?

Now, that's a real British solution!

So no takers on my ergot tainted food shipments idea?

So no takers on my ergot tainted food shipments idea?

It's an interesting idea.

Personally, I just wanna see Kim do that odd Ergot-laughing-dance thing.

Well, we could just leave them alone. The only reason they want such weapons is because they're scared shitless that the US will bomb them. They know that no US leader is insane enough to risk declaring war on a nation which could nuke US soil or US allies.

At the same time, we need to realize that their leaders are quite interested in remaining alive and in power. The idea that the DPRK would use their weapons in a first strike capacity(or give them to terrorists) is ludicrious, because it's antithetical to that goal of staying alive.

EDIT - Chellis beat me to it.

I'm, sorry thats incredaibly wrong. The North Koreans are tough that thwe US lost the Korean War. The Korean Goverment has brainwashed its popluation and as long as we watch Hitler continue his activites the longer we will have the side effects of it. Kim could care less what you do to huimk because the eintire popluation is tough that The U.S. Military lost the war because they were stopped at the the Yalu River. In reality It was the Chinese counter attack that forced a retreat from N. Korea.
What needs to happen is we need to creat an assisnation squad and have kim assissnated and every one of his top military leadership as well. and then we simply invade over the border with a million soldiers. and also have china invade over from the north. Then we admister south korea as the goverment of both the north and the south.

The opnly problwem is virturally everyone will fight you, since theyve been told the reason there lives are crap is because of the U.S. and its "bias" control of the United Nations.

Now, that's a real British solution!
If only I had bad teeth and a Mini Cooper, I might be mistaken for one as well.

So no takers on my ergot tainted food shipments idea?

I'm up for it...

A good witchhunt does a soul good, and I can always use more kindling.

Send them a McDonalds . Game over .

Send them a McDonalds . Game over .

Isn't that against the Geneva convention? :D

The North Koreans are tough that thwe US lost the Korean War.

If I'm not mistaken, China kind of helped them out there, and nobody realy wone, as much as both parties ceased fire.

I think ignoring them might not be a bad idea. Get China on our side and N. Korea won't stand a chance.

EDIT:
Isn't that against the Geneva convention? :D
As if the US has cared before. Our Govt doesn't seem to care about our own Constitution, not to mention the Geneva Convention.

Isn't that against the Geneva convention? :D


Not Geneva but the Human rights commision would pitch a bitch for sure !



It would be a good deal for Mc D's because there are no fat people to sue them in NK !

It would be a good deal for Mc D's because there are no fat people to sue them in NK !

LOL

Under international law, you have 3 options:

1. Do nothing. Until they atually attack you, they haven't done anything wrong.

2. Declare war. As long as you delcare war fisrt, you're allowed to engage in military operations against them.

3. Get a UN resolution authorising the use of force. This is what you did in Iraq.

Option 1 might be dangerous, but it's the only option that has a chance not to kill people. Option 2 is quick and easy, though you could start a really big war with China. Option 3 would take some time, and it might not work at all (the UN can be pretty recalcitrant), and Kim would see you doing it and could act pre-emptively.

For now, I think option 1 is your best bet.

Under international law, you have 3 options:

1. Do nothing. Until they atually attack you, they haven't done anything wrong.

2. Declare war. As long as you delcare war fisrt, you're allowed to engage in military operations against them.

3. Get a UN resolution authorising the use of force. This is what you did in Iraq.

Option 1 might be dangerous, but it's the only option that has a chance not to kill people. Option 2 is quick and easy, though you could start a really big war with China. Option 3 would take some time, and it might not work at all (the UN can be pretty recalcitrant), and Kim would see you doing it and could act pre-emptively.

For now, I think option 1 is your best bet.


Nothing illegal under international law about shooting down missiles in flight.

As it stands, we should probably gun down their missile when they shoot it off. The earlier in the test phase we kill it the better, so if we use the AEGIS with the SM-3 and software upgrades that would be best. Just do this to remind them who continues to live in 1957 and who lives in 2006.

Heh, you forget that the capital of South Korea is almost on the border. You can't nuke the North Korean artillery without irradiating it.
Saturation bombing. Use B-2s, ship and air launched cruise missiles and local artillery to knock out their AA, then follow up immediately afterwards with tactical airstrikes against their artillery position. Preferably with more B-2s, B-52s, B-1s, F-16s, A-10s and FA-18s. Provide air cover with F-15s and any F-22s that might be ready.

Saturation bombing. Use B-2s, ship and air launched cruise missiles and local artillery to knock out their AA, then follow up immediately afterwards with tactical airstrikes against their artillery position. Preferably with more B-2s, B-52s, B-1s, F-16s, A-10s and FA-18s. Provide air cover with F-15s and any F-22s that might be ready.
Well there goes your element of surprise. :p

Nothing illegal under international law about shooting down missiles in flight.

That's a pretty good idea.

Though, watch them stick a dead guy in the missile so they can claim it was a manned flight.

That's a pretty good idea.

Though, watch them stick a dead guy in the missile so they can claim it was a manned flight.
Then watch as the US lobs newborn babies at the missile so they can claim NK are baby-killing bastards.

Simple solution - stop giving them aid.

North Korea has received billions of dollars in food aid, not to mention the oil and other commodities. In return, they promised not to develop nuclear weapons. They broke their part, so why not demand they repay what aid they got? Simple breach of contract ;)

Additionally, they have large government operations to counterfeit currency. I take this as an economic attack. Why are we still giving them aid?

Instead of propping this country up, why not just cut off the free gifts?
Yes, people starve - but how long are we going to continue feeding this guy's army so he can throw poo at us?

I'm, sorry thats incredaibly wrong. The North Koreans are tough that thwe US lost the Korean War. The Korean Goverment has brainwashed its popluation and as long as we watch Hitler continue his activites the longer we will have the side effects of it. Kim could care less what you do to huimk because the eintire popluation is tough that The U.S. Military lost the war because they were stopped at the the Yalu River. In reality It was the Chinese counter attack that forced a retreat from N. Korea.
What needs to happen is we need to creat an assisnation squad and have kim assissnated and every one of his top military leadership as well. and then we simply invade over the border with a million soldiers. and also have china invade over from the north. Then we admister south korea as the goverment of both the north and the south.

The opnly problwem is virturally everyone will fight you, since theyve been told the reason there lives are crap is because of the U.S. and its "bias" control of the United Nations.


Nah, not so much. The DPRK is not stupid, and is well aware they cannot take the United States in a conventional conflict. That's why they want WMDs. They're not 'tough'(I'm assuming you mean emboldened) because of the Korean War - like you said, they saw their forces routed, and they were saved from annexation only by the Chinese, who fought the war to a stalemate.

Assasination's not legal nor acceptable simply because you dislike someone, and invasion is unwarranted.

Under international law, you have 3 options:

2. Declare war. As long as you delcare war fisrt, you're allowed to engage in military operations against them.


If you wish to adhere to international law, you can't just "declare war". That would constitute a "Breach of the peace" and an offensive act which would not be justifiable, so this option isn't viable.

If you wish to adhere to international law, you can't just "declare war". That would constitute a "Breach of the peace" and an offensive act which would not be justifiable, so this option isn't viable.

Do you have a citation for that? I'm really curious about the basis of international law.

Nah, not so much. The DPRK is not stupid, and is well aware they cannot take the United States in a conventional conflict. That's why they want WMDs. They're not 'tough'(I'm assuming you mean emboldened) because of the Korean War - like you said, they saw their forces routed, and they were saved from annexation only by the Chinese, who fought the war to a stalemate.

Assasination's not legal nor acceptable simply because you dislike someone, and invasion is unwarranted.


I think he actually meant "taught". While UCLE's grasp of the english language leaves something to be desired, he is basically correct.

The Korean War, as taught to all people in North Korea: After the Imperialist Japanese were thrown out of Korea by the invincible might of the Korean People, the United States invaded the South and drove north until they reached the Yalu River. There, however, the unbeatable army of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea under supreme leader Kim il Sung turned around and drove the Imperialist Americans back to the 38th Parallel, with some logisitical assistance from their Chinese Communist Brothers.

Sometime in the near future, the DPRK will drive the Americans, who are hated occupiers of the South, completely from the penninsula and execute their quisling government.

As hard as it may be to believe, that is exactly what everyone in North Korea is taught. I have no doubt some of them have a more accurate idea of history, but not many.

As far as I can see, Entropic Creation's argument is the only one that will work. Cut them off. If they choose to fight a war over it, then let it be their choice.

What to do with North Korea?

Arm Vietnam with nukes. Start talking about sovereignity of Tibet and the "legitimate aspirations" of Uighurs.

By Nuking France.