NationStates Jolt Archive

Queensryche is a metal/hard rock band, famous for "Silent Lucidity", "Jet City Woman" and the "Operation Mindcrime" concept album.
On 10 June they played a show (Arrow Rock) in Holland with Porcupine Tree, Gotthard, Pavlov's Dog, Ray Davies, Dio, Def Leppard and Roger Waters.


Queensryche was arrested this past week at the Amsterdam Airport for concealing and carrying an illegal firearm.

Here's an excerpt from Geoff's Tour Journal to explain:

What a day! At the airport in Amsterdam we were all lined up at the ticket
counter checking in for the flight to Oslo. The 35 pieces of luggage to check
were being lined up and I turned to ADAM, our Tour manager and whispered "Remember there's a gun in our bags" referring to the replica Glock 45 handgun that we use on stage. In a second of confusion he says to the ticket agent, "Oh yeah, not to worry but we have a gun in this suitcase."

Before he could explain that it wasn't a real gun but a replica, airport Police swarmed in on us and the questioning began.

Apparently, unknown to us, any gun, whether real or fake, is highly illegal in Holland. Quick thinking ADAM realized that this was suddenly getting ugly and that we might get detained and miss the flight, thus putting the show in Oslo in jeopardy. He instantly informed them that the bag in question was his. Before I could blink, they arrested him and took him away. He looked back at me and said, "Don't worry get on the plane and I'll call you later."

As I watched him being led away the ticket agent handed me my boarding pass and said, "Have a nice flight." Right. The rest of the entourage boarded the plane and journeyed to Oslo without further incident. Just before show time a very stressed out ADAM burst into our dressing room full of tales from his eventful day. There was no jail time only a fine and oh yeah, they confiscated the gun.

...the gun was a stage prop, and had been USED for a performance in Holland. What do you think?

1, 3 and 5

Okay, it contradicts, but meh.

1, 3 and 5

Okay, it contradicts, but meh.

So the band was wrong, the police were wrong, but that's the way it had to play out?

Ok, I can see that.

Typical bureaucratic response, I'd say. That's the problem with zero-tolerance, it leads to zero-intelligence. Sounds like the police did make the effort to compromise, though.

The band's prop master or stage manager should have done a little checking, though, especially in gun-phobic Europe.

1) Checking travel laws is a good idea beforehand.

2) Either way, they shouldn't have had it in their luggage but w/ thier stage equipment.

3) So it got into the country but not out?

Would have been worse if theyd been arrested before the gig....

...or better if you didnt like them.

Option two, gun control=bad. :)

Seeing as neither police nor ticket agent could know that the gun was fake (nor would have been well served by simply believing what the owner of the gun told them) until *after* taking the guy away to check it out (and it's not like it would have been a feasible idea to let someone suspected to have a gun just pop open his suitcase right there in the boarding area), I'm saying nothing wrong happened.

They checked it out, he was released, he had to pay a fine because carrying a real-looking fake gun is illegal there. *shrug*

Would have given him a nasty shock, to be sure, but he'll get over it.

3) So it got into the country but not out?

Yep.

I guess though, at the end of the day, that is the law of that country and if you are gonna go visit, gig, whatever, you should respect them - even if they seem mad to you. Surely the right to change them belongs to those who have to live by them everyday?

I guess though, at the end of the day, that is the law of that country and if you are gonna go visit, gig, whatever, you should respect them - even if they seem mad to you. Surely the right to change them belongs to those who have to live by them everyday?

Of course. But when a known band is travelling with 35 pieces of CHECKED luggage, you'd think that they could have discussed it without being arrested. I'm sure that this can't have been the first time an act (theatre, music or otherwise) that uses a fake firearm has played The Netherlands...

Mind you, smart airport police will never take any chances with a gun, until they are able to clearly and thoroughly identify it. It doesn't make a difference even if they explained it was a fake. What if a terrorist brings in a real gun and says its a fake? Do you think the police would be so stupid to even let him off?

In fact, I'd say the ticket agent was highly intelligent for calling in the police, and the police for moving in immediately without taking chances. How would they know if it's real or fake? Even since it was in a suitcase?

There must be some kind of provision for things like plays involving a murder or such-like?

So the band was wrong, the police were wrong, but that's the way it had to play out?

Ok, I can see that.

You said it better than I could have :p

I picked all of the first three options. I believe that the gun control laws are excessive, but that there wasn't any particular reason why the band couldn't have found them out first. Also, I think it was excessive to arrest him, couldn't they have questioned him somewhere nearer the airport? However, the ticket agent acted properly and within the scope of the law.

Also, I think it was excessive to put him in jail, couldn't they have questioned him somewhere nearer the airport?
No, you misread, he wasn't put in jail, he was just led away for questioning (i.e. at the police quarters at the airport).

Nothing wrong happened. That's what the law is here and you have to adhere to it.

Mind you, smart airport police will never take any chances with a gun, until they are able to clearly and thoroughly identify it. It doesn't make a difference even if they explained it was a fake. What if a terrorist brings in a real gun and says its a fake? Do you think the police would be so stupid to even let him off?

In fact, I'd say the ticket agent was highly intelligent for calling in the police, and the police for moving in immediately without taking chances. How would they know if it's real or fake? Even since it was in a suitcase?

I agree with most of your reasoning, but remember: this is an entertainment group on tour with lots of gear, all of which (including the fake gun!) was being checked.

If it had been in a carry-on bag, this would be a no-brainer, even with a fake gun.

At least here in the US, it is legal to check a bag with a firearm, providing you meet certain regulations:
Subject to state local and airline restrictions, you may still transport a firearm and ammunition in your checked baggage provided it is declared to the aircraft operator (airline) at check in and that you comply with other applicable regulations. Please note that you should never unlock your bag if you are carrying a firearm and your bag serves as the locked hard-sided case for transporting your firearm.
http://www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1047.xml

Nothing wrong happend, it's illegal here to carry a gun OR a fake gun that looks real. The police did the right thing.

Indeed, nothing wrong happened here. What if it was a terrorist and we would've let him through? Then you would post about security on dutch airports being inadequate. The ticket agent and the police certainly did the right thing.

Indeed, nothing wrong happened here. What if it was a terrorist and we would've let him through? Then you would post about security on dutch airports being inadequate. The ticket agent and the police certainly did the right thing.

Terrorists often check 35 bags and travel disguised as a rock band with over 20 years of touring? :)

I'm still of the mind that it was a little of everyone's fault. The band should have checked, the police shouldn't have been involved (airport security should be able to ascertain if the gun was real or not), and the ticket agent overreacted.

It's a REPLICA. It's not a REAL GUN...

morons...

Terrorists often check 35 bags and travel disguised as a rock band with over 20 years of touring? :)

I'm still of the mind that it was a little of everyone's fault. The band should have checked, the police shouldn't have been involved (airport security should be able to ascertain if the gun was real or not), and the ticket agent overreacted.I've never heard of them so why should some Dutch policeman?

There's a reason fake guns are illegal, and that band should've at least checked the Dutch gun laws. They should have gotten their papers in order before taking that thing to the airport.

It's a REPLICA. It's not a REAL GUN...

morons...
and both are forbidden in Holland...:rolleyes:

I've never heard of them so why should some Dutch policeman?

Because police are generally informed about concerts? At least everywhere I've seen shows (England, US, Czech Rep, Slovakia) there are always police there. They just played a major rock festival.

http://www.arrowrockfestival.nl/
http://www.brain-damage.co.uk/general/rw06arr.html

Surely the police would have been briefed about an event for 25,000 people?

and both are forbidden in Holland...:rolleyes:
Remind me not to carve a bar of soap just for grins...

In Virginia, if you show a fake gun while committing a crime, you're likely to win a Darwin award or get your ass beat.

Don't they beat people up in Holland for being as stupid as a rock? :rolleyes:

Because police are generally informed about concerts? At least everywhere I've seen shows (England, US, Czech Rep, Slovakia) there are always police there. They just played a major rock festival.

http://www.arrowrockfestival.nl/
http://www.brain-damage.co.uk/general/rw06arr.html

Surely the police would have been briefed about an event for 25,000 people?
ahahaha, so when there's a concert in NY, the police in Chicago is informed?
(I hope you get the point)

Remind me not to carve a bar of soap just for grins...

In Virginia, if you show a fake gun while committing a crime, you're likely to win a Darwin award or get your ass beat.

Don't they beat people up in Holland for being as stupid as a rock? :rolleyes:
carving soap looking like a gun isn't forbidden, fake guns that look almost real are (otherwise we wouldn't have waterguns)
We should beat other people up for not understanding our laws.

ahahaha, so when there's a concert in NY, the police in Chicago is informed?
(I hope you get the point)

I do. However, the police at the airports most certainly would be.

carving soap looking like a gun isn't forbidden, fake guns that look almost real are (otherwise we wouldn't have waterguns)
We should beat other people up for not understanding our laws.
Well, on the positive side, I guess there's no Airsoft in Holland. What do your fat geeks do for fun then? Smoke pot?

I do. However, the police at the airports most certainly would be.
Why would the police at the airport would be informed, it's not like the concert is going to be held there.

Well, on the positive side, I guess there's no Airsoft in Holland. What do your fat geeks do for fun then? Smoke pot?
There is, only they play it in Belgium.

And quit the flaming.

Why would the police at the airport would be informed, it's not like the concert is going to be held there.

(Again this is US specific knowledge: )
Because they're travelling. Most of the time, bands/acts tour the US by bus. However, if they are flying, arrangements are made for their gear to be loaded ahead of time, what's in it, etc. Further, police are always notified at main travel points if something is coming through.

Examples:
For the US (Golf) Open (this past week!), police on all NYC rail lines & airports were notified, even though the event was not in NYC proper.

When Live Aid was in Philly (20 years ago), the police certainly knew about Phil Collins flying in from Heathrow and going directly to the show.

Maybe it's just different. Dunno. But then guns aren't illegal in the US either.

Yes, but soft drugs are. Makes you wonder how some artists easily can get their stuff, if they're not checked :)