NationStates Jolt Archive

I dislike people jumping to conclusions about satanists.
BUT i also dislike stupid satanists worshipping the devil because he is teh uber evil.

My friend is a satanist that i can cope with because:
He worships satan as a liberator against god's authoritarianism
He see's followers of god to have no choice, wheras he has one.

This view is different to stereotypical satanists. Although he does dress up in a cloak to scare people.

Once more, it is generally agreed that Satan is the protaganist in the great literature Paradise Lost.

Any comments/flames?

For someone to be a real Satanist, wouldn't there have to be a real Satan?

Not bloody likely.

For someone to be a real Satanist, wouldn't there have to be a real Satan?

Not bloody likely.

(agrees quietly)

For someone to be a real Satanist, wouldn't there have to be a real Satan?

Not bloody likely.

You can say that about every religion.

You can say that about every religion.

And I do.

Well... except Jesus did really exist. I just don't believe he had any super-powers.

and I do:sniper:

oops, beat to it:rolleyes:

Well... except Jesus did really exist.

Actually, there is virtually no reliable and independent evidence to support that he did. You would've been safer going with Siddhartha Gautama...

This view is different to stereotypical satanists. Although he does dress up in a cloak to scare people.

Actually, the average satanist is a follower of LaVey, and therefor does not believe in a creature called Satan at all...

I dislike people jumping to conclusions about satanists.
BUT i also dislike stupid satanists worshipping the devil because he is teh uber evil.

My friend is a satanist that i can cope with because:
He worships satan as a liberator against god's authoritarianism
He see's followers of god to have no choice, wheras he has one.

This view is different to stereotypical satanists. Although he does dress up in a cloak to scare people.

Once more, it is generally agreed that Satan is the protaganist in the great literature Paradise Lost.

Any comments/flames?

It is interesting how Satan was portrayed in Paradise Lost. So much better character development for him than for God, in my opinion.

I'm not a Satanist, and I find the whole movement fascinating. I tend to think of it as an important aspect of the counter-culture that has grown up over the past few decades.

Actually, the average satanist is a follower of LaVey, and therefor does not believe in a creature called Satan at all...

Yes, AVERAGE and STEREOTYPE mean the same thing :rolleyes:

Yes, AVERAGE and STEREOTYPE mean the same thing :rolleyes:

As does REAL.

So, if there's a distinction between people who worship Satan (which is etymologically the Hebrew word for "adversary") for reasons of anti-authoritarianism and for reasons of celebrating evil or being an annoying teenage dumbass, then which is truly Satanism? How do I know that either is Satanism? After all, to acknowledge your beliefs is to acknowledge the Christian God as well. Why not worship against Allah or Kali? I'm certain that they're just as authoritative. Furthermore, if Satan is the opposite of the Christian God, then what do you get from Satan which would motivate one so much to worship His Unholiness?

Actually, there is virtually no reliable and independent evidence to support that he did.

Christ, you just opened a can of worms. I'm getting the hell out of here.

Christ, you just opened a can of worms. I'm getting the hell out of here.

It's alright.

*eats the worms*

All better now. :)

So, if there's a distinction between people who worship Satan (which is etymologically the Hebrew word for "adversary") for reasons of anti-authoritarianism and for reasons of celebrating evil or being an annoying teenage dumbass, then which is truly Satanism? How do I know that either is Satanism? After all, to acknowledge your beliefs is to acknowledge the Christian God as well. Why not worship against Allah or Kali? I'm certain that they're just as authoritative. Furthermore, if Satan is the opposite of the Christian God, then what do you get from Satan which would motivate one so much to worship His Unholiness?


WELL!
Considering hardly any teenage dumbasses actually truly believe in the ideal, id say the former.
Not necessarily, simply worshipping Satan doesnt worship the christian god, as you said its the word for adversary :p so satanists can believe in any god.
You get from satan choice, freedom in life and, lets face it, you get on his good side in death ;) my friend would state that as long as you worship satan and live a good lifestyle full of morals, if god still rejects you and satan accepts you, surely satan is the better of the two.

Christ, you just opened a can of worms. I'm getting the hell out of here.

I may be following you, because if it does indeed inadvertently open up this "can of worms," the only worms we'll see are Christians referring to other Christians saying their knock-off of Gilgamesh or Hercules or any other Messiah-like demi-god was real (oh, and don't get me started on Utnapishtim...) It's Sunday - I've video games to play...

WELL!
Considering hardly any teenage dumbasses actually truly believe in the ideal, id say the former.
Not necessarily, simply worshipping Satan doesnt worship the christian god, as you said its the word for adversary :p so satanists can believe in any god.
You get from satan choice, freedom in life and, lets face it, you get on his good side in death ;) my friend would state that as long as you worship satan and live a good lifestyle full of morals, if god still rejects you and satan accepts you, surely satan is the better of the two.
Explain this "ideal" to me.

It is generally recognized that Satan is the counterpart to the Christian God. Only weirdy Satanists who try to justify their beliefs see Satan as an entirely different entity, living in absence of Christianity.

And if following morals is core to Satanism, how different is it from Christianity? I once spoke with a priest. Well, my friend did, but I was there. He asked this priest this question: "If one leads a generally good life, but doesn't believe in God, would they still go to Heaven?"

The priest responded to this question with a summary "yes". So, is the domain of Satan, oft described as either of the temperate extremes, different from Heaven? If one believes that Hell is a paradise, while others, on the other hand, believe Heaven a paradise, then where do they go if they follow the same morals?

Actually, there is virtually no reliable and independent evidence to support that he did. You would've been safer going with Siddhartha Gautama...

Famous anthiest and pagan historians in rome?

The greatest Historian at that time mentioned him.

Famous anthiest and pagan historians in rome?

The greatest Historian at that time mentioned him.

For the benefit of those concerned, explain who the "greatest Historian at that time" was.

Famous anthiest and pagan historians in rome?

The greatest Historian at that time mentioned him.

Oh man. I wash my hands of all of this. Goodnight Josephus.

Famous anthiest and pagan historians in rome?

The greatest Historian at that time mentioned him.
Those Josephus texts were forgeries.

I may be following you, because if it does indeed inadvertently open up this "can of worms," the only worms we'll see are Christians referring to other Christians saying their knock-off of Gilgamesh or Hercules or any other Messiah-like demi-god was real (oh, and don't get me started on Utnapishtim...) It's Sunday - I've video games to play...
I still maintain that the only god worth worshipping is Enki, who masturbated the world into existence.

Your friend sounds more like a Luciferian than a Satanist...
Most Satanists are followers of the teachings of Anton LaVey, which in a way is basically sellf-worshipping. Though the few that worship satan as the lord of evil are often nothing more than posers or insane people.

If I was a believer of the Christian faith, I would be a Luciferian.

Interesting...I mentioned LaVey to my mother when I brought a book home on Satanism (she flipped LOL, not even religious I don't think?) She couldn't see a difference, so I call LaVey Satanism 'neo-Satanism' (ooh big diff LOL) and SATAN-worshipping as 'auld-Satanism'...

I am now going to look into Luciferian ideologies, as I've never heard of it, and I consider myself 'hip' to demons (OK, so I saw Excorcist 1-3, and Emily Rose BUT...).

Finally, I consider myself a Baptist, but even I make fun of Christians, they seem so damn pushy on TV. Those Ethiopians want bread and water, not manna. Christ on a cracker!

Look Christians, MAGIC! Run like your blessed Apocalypse is coming! :gundge:

Thanks for the info- Kegan

Triple post. Score.

Edit: Make that quintuple.

Triple post. Score.

Edit: Make that quintuple.

I got nine of them once on the old NS forums. That damn rickety server.

I got nine of them once on the old NS forums. That damn rickety server.
We should go for an all-time record.

We should go for an all-time record.

As far as I know, my nine is the record. At least for NS. I'm not sure what the record is for the whole set of internet forums.

Better get started.

Um, as a Satanist I can pretty much say that if your friend worships Satan then the correct term is Luciferianism, as was previously mentioned. While Luciferianism is considered a form of Satanism, I would disagree and I imagine so would many Luciferians.

Now for those of you in need of information, three key facts...

Satanists are agnostic, as such do not believe in any such entity as Satan.
Satanism is a philosophy rather than a religion.
There are multiple branches of Satanism, the post popular being the Church of Satan, the First Church of Satan & the Black Axis.

Here is a link to Satanism on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism) which is fairly accurate.

It cracks me up when people are offended by the concept of Satanism as 98% of people have absolutely no idea what the hell it is or what it entails. Ah well, religious ignorance strikes again. Huzzah!

Hmm... well, if freedom of life is that if you want to kill someone randomly you are free to it, alright? Satan will not be mad at you for that, would he?

If that is what satanists offers, the new version of "Might makes right" I am prepared to start Inquisition 40K style and start purging back...

Basically modern satanism is egocentric and egoistic atheism. That is a far cry from what satan is in the Bible, where he is the "adversary" or the "prosecutor". And it is clear that he cannot exist without God.

As a side note, why should Josephus text be forgeries? What are the proof for that. Ancient historians did not write on the same premisses as we do today, but they did not really lie all the time. They might have fiddled with the storyline just to make a better story. They wanted to be read, but they did not really lie.

As a side note, I can point out that Tacitus, in my views the greatest writer of the day, has been proven right several times by archaeology in relation to his eminent book "Germanica".

Josephus was first hand witness to a lot of what happened in Palestina. He was a highly ranked jew who had a lot of information. In fact, ancient historians see him as a goldmine in many respects.

For someone to be a real Satanist, wouldn't there have to be a real Satan?

Not bloody likely.

No. Satan is just a symbol.

Hmm... well, if freedom of life is that if you want to kill someone randomly you are free to it, alright? Satan will not be mad at you for that, would he?

If that is what satanists offers, the new version of "Might makes right" I am prepared to start Inquisition 40K style and start purging back...

Well, they're still obligated to follow laws if they want to preserve their life. If self-choice is the doctrine, I think they'll choose to follow the law - and try to change it, if they're really that bent on killing.

Ooh. I'm taking the Ordo Malleus! :)

Well, they're still obligated to follow laws if they want to preserve their life. If self-choice is the doctrine, I think they'll choose to follow the law - and try to change it, if they're really that bent on killing.

Ooh. I'm taking the Ordo Malleus! :)

For the Emperor!

I'll bring my guardsmen to support.

Sry all but i remember seing this on another forum so if its already been said oops.

"beliefs and practices:
- The nine Satanic statements: These form the core of the Church of Satan beliefs. They were written by Anton LaVey. In abridged form, they state that Satan represents:
- Indulgence, not abstinence.
- Vital existence, not spiritual pipe dreams.
- Undefiled wisdom, not hypocritical self-deceit.
- Kindness to those deserving of it, not love wasted on ingrates.
- Vengeance, not turning the other cheek.
- Responsibility to the responsible, instead of concern for psychic vampires.
- Man as just another animal - the most vicious of all.
- Gratification of all ones desires.
- The best friend that the Christian Church has had as he has kept it in business for centuries.
- The nine Satanic sins are:
- Stupidity, pretentiousness, solipsism, self-deceit, herd conformity, lack of perspective, forgetfulness of past orthodoxies, counterproductive pride, and lack of aesthetics. 7
- The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth are: These are 11 rules of behavior written by Anton LaVey in 1967. 16 They include rules governing conversations, behavior towards guests, avoiding theft, acknowledging the power of magic, avoiding harm to children, refraining from killing animals, and behavior towards others.
- Theology of the CoS:
- People have created Gods in many forms; pick one that might be useful to you.
- Heaven and Hell do not exist.
- Satan is not closely related to the modern (post 1400 AD) concept of the Christian devil. Satanists view Satan as a pre-Christian life principle which represents the carnal, earthly, and mundane aspects of life. - Satan is not a being, a living entity; he is a force of nature.
- Human life is held in sacred regard. Children in particular are not to be harmed.
- "Satan...represents love, kindness and respect to those who deserve it."
- Black Masses (parodies of the Roman Catholic religious service) are not normally performed by Satanists (except on rare occasions for their entertainment or publicity value). "
http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanism.htm

Satanism is a very life-loving, selfist philosophy, that values personal acheivement and power, personal responsibility, and personal freedom. It has nothing to do with common xtian (or any other white-light) beleifs.

I wonder how many Satanists are on NS now? Interest in
Satanism seems to be increasing here. I remember when it was just me and Parratoga.

For someone to be a real Satanist, wouldn't there have to be a real Satan?

Not bloody likely.

Agreed. Though it is more likely that you will find representations of said fictional character in my record collection than the Jesus person.

Satanism seems to be increasing here.

I agree, many ppl now borrow many of the teachers of Satanism, well if what i posted above is actually Satanism, i didn't actually check to make sure. Actually i would have to say just about e1 has borrowed 1 or 2 things from the Satanist.

I have a feeling that as Evolution theory gets taught more in schools, thus raising more ignorant children who don't know about the religous alternative, the majority would b very much like satanist, even if they didn't fly the flag.

Is what i posted actual Satanism, just wondering?

How is believing in anything liberating? You're giving yourself over to one or another set of rules. The most liberating day of my life was the day I realized that I wasn't required to believe in anything.

How is believing in anything liberating? You're giving yourself over to one or another set of rules. The most liberating day of my life was the day I realized that I wasn't required to believe in anything.
Nothing makes me giggle more than a practicing Satanist. And that's saying a lot. If, as the OP says, it's a question of choice - having choice as opposed to no choice - why then choose to dwell on the oppressor system, why not choose another path altogether?

My friend is a satanist that i can cope with because:
He worships satan as a liberator against god's authoritarianism
He see's followers of god to have no choice, wheras he has one.

Ostro, tell your friend to liberate himself from Dualistic hogwash. Let him actually have to make a choice, instead of letting him linger unhealthily in his oppressor's shadow.

Worship of the entity known as Satan really doesn't occur outside of some very closed doors.

I've only heard about the consequences of supposed "Satanic rites" and while gruesome, these things certainly weren't in the public's eye.



Most people I've talked to who "avowedly" worship Satan are little more than rich people who want an excuse to engage in debauchery, liittle better or worse (depending on how you see things) than those Manhattanite cults.



Satanism as a sort of philosophical opposition to Christianity is interesting, but I find it almost pitiful that they are so "half-assed" about their opposition. If you are going to reject an omnipresent, over-bearing deity, then why even acknowledge his "supposed enemy."


Though I must admit this "Luciferian" religion intrigues me. Sounds like it might have intellectual roots in the Persian views of Christianity.

NT

For while they sit contriving, shall the rest,
Millions that stand in Arms, and longing wait
The Signal to ascend, sit ling'ring here
Heaven's fugitives, and for their dwelling place
Accept this dark opprobrious Den of shame,
The Prison of his Tyranny who Reigns
By our delay? No, let us rather choose
Armed with Hell flames and fury all at once
O'er Heaven's high towers to force resistless way,
Turning our Tortures into horrid Arms
Against the Torturer; when to meet the noise
Of his Almighty Engine he shall hear
Infernal Thunder, and for Lightning see
Black fire and horror shot with equal rage
Among his Angels; and his Throne itself
Mixed with Tartarean Sulphur, and strange fire,
His own invented Torments.

Actually, there is virtually no reliable and independent evidence to support that he did. You would've been safer going with Siddhartha Gautama...

You are wrong there, Josephus, Pleny the Elder, and Pontius Pilate all mention him, therefore, you have to admit that he did at least live on this planet.

- read some Anton LaVey.... that's the truth man, respect it...

Satanism is a branch of Christianity.

- read some Anton LaVey.... that's the truth man, respect it...
:p
Read any decent biography of Anton LaVey ... and you'll find he's a complete liar.

Uh... The Left Hand Path branch of Satanism doesn't use any such gruesome rituals, though the Black Axis are known to.

Satanists DO NOT WORSHIP SATAN. Satanists are AGNOSTIC. Second time this thread I have said this.

An accurate description of Satanists of the Left Hand Path would be Secular Humanists.

Actually, there is virtually no reliable and independent evidence to support that he did. You would've been safer going with Siddhartha Gautama...

Yes there is! Josephus-independent
It is just as reliable as any other historical document from the time. So if you want to deny that Julius Caesar did anything in Gaul, that Cleopatra was real, etc. fine, but at least be aware of how ridiculous that is. Clearly another doubt-worshipper.

You know, unless they announce it, I doubt that anyone would be able to recognize a Satanist if they encountered one. Most people IRL are surprised to find out that I'm a Satanist. For the most part I tend to be polite, and bother no one.

The REAL REAL satanists!

"
Bush and Mrs Lucifer giving the Satanic Salute:


http://portland.indymedia.org/icon/2005/01/308881.jpg


and again

http://www.fourwinds10.com/news/05-g...an-horns_1.jpg

and again

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/...enna_satan.jpg

and again

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...4-227-515h.jpg

and again

http://accordionguy.blogware.com/Pho..._the_horns.jpg

and again

http://images.usatoday.com/news/_pho...con-inside.jpg

and again

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...41jpg-515h.jpg

and again

http://files.blog-city.com/files/aa/...p/f/horns1.jpg

and again

http://www.100monkeystyping.com/wlog/shout.jpg

clinton too

http://www.samliquidation.com/clinton_hand_signal.jpg
"

Edit: this was copied from a post of mine several months ago and apparently many of the links are now broken.

For someone to be a real Satanist, wouldn't there have to be a real Satan?

Not bloody likely.
Nope. LaVey's Satanism is an atheist religion that uses Satan as a symbol rather than as a god.

Any comments/flames?

Any difference?

No, seriously, how exactly do Satanists go in front of courts and swear to God? Well, without laughing out loud right then and there...

No, seriously, how exactly do Satanists go in front of courts and swear to God? Well, without laughing out loud right then and there...

I imagine they would be allowed to make a promise, just like atheists and people of other faiths who do not wish to swear by their deity/ies.

:p
Read any decent biography of Anton LaVey ... and you'll find he's a complete liar.

Striaght up. LaVey lied his ass off when recounting his so-called history. Then again, he explicitly states that people don't want the truth. They want myth. They want a great story. And that is what Satanism is all about.

The fact that LaVey is a lier and a con man only makes Satanism more valid.

I still maintain that the only god worth worshipping is Enki, who masturbated the world into existence.

Now how can you agrue with that?

Hmm... well, if freedom of life is that if you want to kill someone randomly you are free to it, alright? Satan will not be mad at you for that, would he?

If that is what satanists offers, the new version of "Might makes right" I am prepared to start Inquisition 40K style and start purging back...

Ooh. I'm taking the Ordo Malleus! :)

Hereticus! Whew, thought I'd be stuck with Xenos for a moment there...

But seriously, Satanism says thus:

Someone's personal freedoms are paramount.
Killing someone robs them of their freedom.
Thus killing is only right when doing so protects the freedoms of others - i.e. the person deserves to die.

So self-defence is fine. Murder, generally speaking, is not.

Satanism is also about accountability. If you kill someone, you've got to deal with the concequences. Satan isn't going to ride in on a firey chariot and spank you. You're not going to get spanked after you die. But the cops are going to jump all over your ass, and throw you in a cell with the big guy who is fond of saying "You dropped the soap. Oh Daisy, oh Daisy".

Satanism is a very life-loving, selfist philosophy, that values personal acheivement and power, personal responsibility, and personal freedom. It has nothing to do with common xtian (or any other white-light) beleifs.

I wonder how many Satanists are on NS now? Interest in
Satanism seems to be increasing here. I remember when it was just me and Parratoga.

Funny, because I remember when there were six of us before your join date. Maybe you just didn't read that much.

Satanism is a branch of Christianity.

Keep thinking that.

{snip}

Funny, because I remember when there were six of us before your join date. Maybe you just didn't read that much.





Or maybe that was before my join date? BTW My original join date was June 2003. The only one I ever heard of that pre-dated me was Sheol.

I dislike people jumping to conclusions about satanists.
BUT i also dislike stupid satanists worshipping the devil because he is teh uber evil.

My friend is a satanist that i can cope with because:
He worships satan as a liberator against god's authoritarianism
He see's followers of god to have no choice, wheras he has one.

This view is different to stereotypical satanists. Although he does dress up in a cloak to scare people.

Once more, it is generally agreed that Satan is the protaganist in the great literature Paradise Lost.

Any comments/flames?

Wouldn't a real Satanist be one that belongs to the Church of Satan?

Wouldn't a real Satanist be one that belongs to the Church of Satan?

For the most part yes, but there are other Satanic groups and a large number of Satanists are non-joiners. Me, I am a member of the Church of Satan.

I'm not trying to be bitchy here - I for one don't post very much at all. But someone being here longer than you is no excuse not to have heard of them. You've got Sheol.

You posted "I remember when it was just me and Parratoga". It's never been "just" you two who used these forums. Being vocal doesn't make you exclusive.

I'm not looking for a fight over this, just politely pointing out.

For the most part yes, but there are other Satanic groups and a large number of Satanists are non-joiners. Me, I am a member of the Church of Satan.

So the term "Satanist" isn't specific to the Church of Satan/Laveyan Satanism?

So the term "Satanist" isn't specific to the Church of Satan/Laveyan Satanism?
Much as CoS members would like it, no.
Offically, I've yet to see a government acknowlegde followers of non-LaVey Satanism as "Satanists", but in the real world people (over) use Satanism as much as "Pog" was thrown arround.

I'm not trying to be bitchy here - I for one don't post very much at all. But someone being here longer than you is no excuse not to have heard of them. You've got Sheol.

You posted "I remember when it was just me and Parratoga". It's never been "just" you two who used these forums. Being vocal doesn't make you exclusive.

I'm not looking for a fight over this, just politely pointing out.

I understand what you mean. Sheol was deated before I started so I did not count him, and Me and Parra were the most vocal/visible. I apologize to you and any others I missed.

Much as CoS members would like it, no.
Offically, I've yet to see a government acknowlegde followers of non-LaVey Satanism as "Satanists", but in the real world people (over) use Satanism as much as "Pog" was thrown arround.

I was under the impression that members of the Temple of Set were both government recognized and considered Satanists. I could be wrong.

I was under the impression that members of the Temple of Set were both government recognized and considered Satanists. I could be wrong.

While not CoS, the ToS is still based on the teachings of LaVey.

[Edit]

Actually, I need to check that.

[Edit]

As I thought.

ToS is to CoS as Protestanism is to Catholisim.

And man can I not spell today.

While a lot of LaVey's later work is rejected, it's still based off the principals of LaVey's Satanism.

[Edit]

Some points duplicate post below (in less detail). Read on gentle viewer. :P

While not CoS, the ToS is still based on the teachings of LaVey.

[Edit]

Actually, I need to check that.

I would say they were more influenced by LaVey, with a more spiritual, Egyptian slant, than they were based on his teachings.

It does seem to me that Non-CoS Satanic groups ussually are formed, or have split from the CoS due to differences in the details of their beliefs, but not due to diffences in the core beliefs. If you'll pardon me using a Xtian example, They would represent a Satanic Protestant schism.

There are some very bizarre groups out there, and unfortunately as an "out" Satanist I get more than my fair share of them contacting me. Even though I have made it clear on many occasions both online and IRL that I am a Satanist, and not a "Devil worshipper" people insist that I hear their tales of sacrifice ETC. It gets real old, real quick.

Edit: Some points duplicate the above post.

Clearly another doubt-worshipper.
You make it sound dirty. God clearly told me otherwise. And besides, Doubt isn't in and of itself to be worshipped - it is through Doubt that I at least venerate God in this continuum.

Uh... The Left Hand Path branch of Satanism doesn't use any such gruesome rituals, though the Black Axis are known to.

Satanists DO NOT WORSHIP SATAN. Satanists are AGNOSTIC. Second time this thread I have said this.

An accurate description of Satanists of the Left Hand Path would be Secular Humanists.


I suppose the only thing more ridiculous than a "satanist" who 'worships satan' is one who doesnt.

I suppose the only thing more ridiculous than a "satanist" who 'worships satan' is one who doesnt.

I don't know the pope looks pretty damn funny with the pointy hat if you ask me.

I don't know the pope looks pretty damn funny with the pointy hat if you ask me.


Well, he also lives in the vatican and hangs out at St Peter's.

Nothing all that ridiculous about either of those places.

I suppose he could get together with some paint-huffers and dress up like this though: http://www.churchofsatan.com/

I suppose he could get together with some paint-huffers and dress up like this though: http://www.churchofsatan.com/

Well if it's that bad we could always call the Battle Pope (http://www.woofofsteel.com/woof_blog/archives/p00.jpg) to defeat them....

I dislike people jumping to conclusions about satanists.
BUT i also dislike stupid satanists worshipping the devil because he is teh uber evil.

My friend is a satanist that i can cope with because:
He worships satan as a liberator against god's authoritarianism
He see's followers of god to have no choice, wheras he has one.

This view is different to stereotypical satanists. Although he does dress up in a cloak to scare people.

Once more, it is generally agreed that Satan is the protaganist in the great literature Paradise Lost.

Any comments/flames?

Satan as liberator? LOL. Only truth can set you free.

That's the motto of my nation: veritas liberabit vos

Just to correct a few things and point out some facts that 90% of people dont know...

Satan and Lucifer are 2 differnt entities, and neither is 'The Devil'
Satan and Lucifer are both angels, who were removed from heaven because they refused to worship man, because they saw him a lesser being than god.

The above is according to the bible... Neither satan nor lucifer are evil entities, just that they wouldnt worship man, they were kicked out of heaven and forced to live on earth (hell).. This is also according to the bible

Luficer means 'The Morning Star'... Jesus was known as 'The Morning Star'... Again, this is according to the bible...

the \m/ kinda hand-guesture (often used by rockers), is a pagan symbol representing the horned-god (This image was taken by the european-christians and turned into their anti-god, to scare the christians away from the pagan beliefs)

So according to history, and the bible.... Theres nothing wrong with Lucifer or Satan.
90% of Christians just follow what people tell them, rather than looking into their OWN religion themselves..
( Did you know that decorating trees in the winter is a sin? Dont believe me? Read the bible ;) )

So really, theres nothing wrong with Satanism. (Except the steriotypical 'Im a n angsty teenager, god hates me, the devil is cool!' satanists)

I dislike people jumping to conclusions about satanists.
BUT i also dislike stupid satanists worshipping the devil because he is teh uber evil.

My friend is a satanist that i can cope with because:
He worships satan as a liberator against god's authoritarianism
He see's followers of god to have no choice, wheras he has one.

This view is different to stereotypical satanists. Although he does dress up in a cloak to scare people.

Once more, it is generally agreed that Satan is the protaganist in the great literature Paradise Lost.

Any comments/flames?
He's not a satanist. He's Luciferian.

An actual satanist is pretty much a hedonistic atheist.



Just to correct a few things and point out some facts that 90% of people dont know...

Satan and Lucifer are 2 differnt entities, and neither is 'The Devil'
Satan and Lucifer are both angels, who were removed from heaven because they refused to worship man, because they saw him a lesser being than god.

The above is according to the bible... Neither satan nor lucifer are evil entities, just that they wouldnt worship man, they were kicked out of heaven and forced to live on earth (hell).. This is also according to the bible

Luficer means 'The Morning Star'... Jesus was known as 'The Morning Star'... Again, this is according to the bible...

the \m/ kinda hand-guesture (often used by rockers), is a pagan symbol representing the horned-god (This image was taken by the european-christians and turned into their anti-god, to scare the christians away from the pagan beliefs)

So according to history, and the bible.... Theres nothing wrong with Lucifer or Satan.
90% of Christians just follow what people tell them, rather than looking into their OWN religion themselves..
( Did you know that decorating trees in the winter is a sin? Dont believe me? Read the bible )

So really, theres nothing wrong with Satanism. (Except the steriotypical 'Im a n angsty teenager, god hates me, the devil is cool!' satanists)

No. Satan and Lucifer/Sammael are one in the same. Satan was what his name was changed to after being xast down. And by definition of evil, he is completely vile. He went against his lords orders (Which according to that silly book, is absolute evil...)

You make it sound dirty. God clearly told me otherwise. And besides, Doubt isn't in and of itself to be worshipped - it is through Doubt that I at least venerate God in this continuum.

Look, I feel that anyone who has more faith in doubting at all costs than listening to logic is a doubt-worshipper. Saying that Jesus didn't even exist, a fact that most secularists and people of other religons accept as true, is doubt-worshipping in my opinion.

On another note, Satanism is stupid. At least Christianity has a good sell story.

Idk from what i have heard about Satanism. The love of those who r deserving rather then love wasted on enemies seems to b a pretty good sell.

On another note, Satanism is stupid. At least Christianity has a good sell story.

Apparently so does scientology.

Idk from what i have heard about Satanism. The love of those who r deserving rather then love wasted on enemies seems to b a pretty good sell.

I wouldn't say that Satanism has a "sell" Satanism exists. If it fits your life then you are welcome to it, If not, then so be it. We are not big on converting others, unlike some other beliefs that demand others be forced into believing the same.

I wouldn't say that Satanism has a "sell" Satanism exists. If it fits your life then you are welcome to it, If not, then so be it. We are not big on converting others, unlike some other beliefs that demand others be forced into believing the same.

How selfless.

Satan as liberator? LOL. Only truth can set you free.

That's the motto of my nation: veritas liberabit vos

We Satanists agree. That's why we venerate Satan as the light bringer, truth bearer, accuser, adversary etc.

Just to correct a few things and point out some facts that 90% of people dont know...

Oh dear god I can tell this is going to be bad...

Satan and Lucifer are 2 differnt entities, and neither is 'The Devil'
Satan and Lucifer are both angels, who were removed from heaven because they refused to worship man, because they saw him a lesser being than god.

The above is according to the bible...

No. The above is a poor interpretation of Dante's Infurno, but please, continute.

Neither satan nor lucifer are evil entities,

Agreed.

just that they wouldnt worship man, they were kicked out of heaven and forced to live on earth (hell).. This is also according to the bible

Luficer means 'The Morning Star'... Jesus was known as 'The Morning Star'... Again, this is according to the bible...

Actually "Luficer" are a manga race, but close enough. Lucifer (lux, "light", ferre, "to bring") was the title of the King Of Babylon (who may or may not have been the Devil). He was cast into Hell for trying to usurp God. Dante, and later Milton, cast Lucifer's fall as that of an angel falling from the grace of the Lord into Hell.

the \m/ kinda hand-guesture (often used by rockers), is a pagan symbol representing the horned-god (This image was taken by the european-christians and turned into their anti-god, to scare the christians away from the pagan beliefs)

It's also a way pagan symbol to ward off evil. And the Spanish sign of the bull - a raw and masculine animal.

So according to history, and the bible.... Theres nothing wrong with Lucifer or Satan.
90% of Christians just follow what people tell them, rather than looking into their OWN religion themselves..

And "90%" of "informed" people such as yourself don't have a clue what they're talking about.

( Did you know that decorating trees in the winter is a sin? Dont believe me? Read the bible ;) )

How do I post that emoticon of me stamming my head into a wall?
Singing "Oh Christmas Tree" is a sin. Venerating trees is a sin. Putting plastic on more plastic is a stupid way to waste money and create an eyesore. It's not sinful. Why don't you read the bible, as you obviously havn't.

And yes, I've read the entire bible. Twice. Rainbow Good News and King James Versions. I've even read the Book of Mormon.

So really, theres nothing wrong with Satanism.

So you're using the Christian bible to comment on a religion that has nothing to do with Christainity? Man do you kick ass.

(Except the steriotypical 'Im a n angsty teenager, god hates me, the devil is cool!' satanists)

And that's wrong (in your opinion) why?

Look, I feel that anyone who has more faith in doubting at all costs than listening to logic is a doubt-worshipper. Saying that Jesus didn't even exist, a fact that most secularists and people of other religons accept as true, is doubt-worshipping in my opinion.

On another note, Satanism is stupid. At least Christianity has a good sell story.

Jesus may or may not have existed. Records exist that show that about two thousand years ago there was at least one person called Jesus. Wow. That proves... so much.

The authenticity of all neutral accounts that support the Bible's account of Jesus's life cannot be proven.

It's very much like LaVey's autobiography and his children's biographies of him. LaVey exited. No doubt lots of people called LaVey existed back in the 60's. But the evidence that he did what he said he did is sorely lacking.

Same for Jesus, only more so.

I could say that Mary Magdalen was the wife of Jesus, point to the Bible and say "there was a Mary Magdalen who lived at the same time as Jesus!" Doesn't make it true. Doesn't make it false either, I personally believe that two thousand years ago (give or take a few years) a man called Jesus was born in Bethlehem and went about preaching.

I wouldn't say that Satanism has a "sell" Satanism exists. If it fits your life then you are welcome to it, If not, then so be it. We are not big on converting others, unlike some other beliefs that demand others be forced into believing the same.
How selfless.

Nah, it's purely selfish. The average Satanist can't be bothered to explain their beliefs and see no reason to justify themselves to the ingorant.

I however, think I should raise my post count as it's not indicative of how much time I spend here.

I dislike people jumping to conclusions about satanists.
BUT i also dislike stupid satanists worshipping the devil because he is teh uber evil.

My friend is a satanist that i can cope with because:
He worships satan as a liberator against god's authoritarianism
He see's followers of god to have no choice, wheras he has one.

This view is different to stereotypical satanists. Although he does dress up in a cloak to scare people.

Once more, it is generally agreed that Satan is the protaganist in the great literature Paradise Lost.

Any comments/flames?
I think HaSatan, as presented on these forums by Grave_n_idle, makes the most sense. He is not the adversary of God, but of Man. He is not a liberator, except in the sense that passing a test liberates us. He tests us, and that is also in line with the adversarial nature of the symbol of Saturn in astrology.

For someone to be a real Satanist, wouldn't there have to be a real Satan?

Not bloody likely.

No. Satanism is about self-indulgence. It is simply called satanism because it is the opposite of the (supposedly) beneficial, selfless, and giving God.

Hands up how many Satanist actualy belive in Satan?

90% of Christians just follow what people tell them, rather than looking into their OWN religion themselves..

It's always struck me as odd that anyone could follow any religion and not have read its holy book.

I read the bible. That's largely why I'm not a Christian (I didn't find it at all persuasive).

Hands up how many Satanist actualy belive in Satan?

Define "Satan".

As defined by Anton LaVey, I believe in Satan.
As defined by Dante, I don't believe in Satan.

As a side note, why should Josephus text be forgeries? What are the proof for that.
Well, being written after his bloody death tends to point in that direction.

Its important to remember that a lot of hokum likes to shroud itself in faux-mystery and insignificant entanglements.

The "I'm a satanist but I dont believe there is a satan" spiel is a good example of this.

Sound and fury, &c.

Define "Satan".

As defined by Anton LaVey, I believe in Satan.
As defined by Dante, I don't believe in Satan.


So you see the Cristian concept of Satan as an ideal modle for human life then?

Its important to remember that a lot of hokum likes to shroud itself in faux-mystery and insignificant entanglements.

The "I'm a satanist but I dont believe there is a satan" spiel is a good example of this.

Sound and fury, &c.


You made reference to the fact that a Satanist not worshipping a being called Satan is ridiculous or some such? Might I ask why..?