NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, let's hear it. Nazism vs Islamofascism, which is more evil/wrong/whatever?

And why?

Oh fuck.

here we go!

Oh fuck.

Yeah I think I just opened the door for the Ultimate Showdown here.

http://photos11.flickr.com/15664893_7ee3c830b7_m.jpg

One is based on a perverted view of Christianity, the other is a perverted view of Islam. I don't really think there's a big difference.

One is based on a perverted view of Christianity, the other is a perverted view of Islam. I don't really think there's a big difference.

except Nazisim isn't based on christianity

actually for the most part the Nazi's hated christianity and only sided with it when it suited them.

if you think nazism is some form christian theocracy then you my friend are an idiot :)

except Nazisim isn't based on christianity

actually for the most part the Nazi's hated christianity and only sided with it when it suited them.

if you think nazism is some form christian theocracy then you my friend are an idiot :)
The Nazi's dint hate Christians

were do you get that from?

ALLAH AKBAR!!!

*explosions follow!*

Nazi-ism=facism
Islamofacism=facism

Wow, I stopped caring already.

ALLAH AKBAR!!!

*explosions follow!*
Thats something that is supposed to be sacred, that has been corrupted by terrorists that dont follow the true meaning of Islam

The Nazi's didn't hate Christians.

Where do you get that from?

*fixes spelling and all that* I have no clue either. Nazis specifically said that you had to be Christian, so... no. Nazis did not hate Christians. Their thing wasn't based upon taking Christianity to the nth degree either, tho.

The Nazi's dint hate Christians

were do you get that from?

many priests etc were imprisoned in the camps... the nazis disliked people who worshipped any other thing than their ideology
some even tried to create their own supposedly germanic religion
they didn't hate the catholics directly in rome so much because they decided to shut up anyway

I thought they were the same thing.. evil. But i guess that's too simple a view- i'm sure someone will claim islamists are worse than Hitler.

Forgot the "They are equally evil," option.

except Nazisim isn't based on christianity

actually for the most part the Nazi's hated christianity and only sided with it when it suited them.

if you think nazism is some form christian theocracy then you my friend are an idiot :)

Yes, Nazis hated Christians so much, that Hitler was a member of the Roman Catholic Church his entire life, and played a very active role in it. They hated Christians so much, that Pius endorsed Naziism in the beginning. Nazis were so oppossed to Christians that "God with us" was on every Nazi uniform, on the belt buckle. They hated Christians soooo much that Nazi Youth were required to carry a Bible to school with them as part of the cirruculum.

Nazis hated Christians so much that Hitler wrote:

–Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)" (http://www.evilbible.com/hitler_was_christian.htm)

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."

The Nazi regime and Christianity were very close.

Forgot the "They are equally evil," option.
Well then i can only judge by fraggs, and the Nazis win that one, i believe. Altho the ussr pwns both of em, and they were communist :eek:

many priests etc were imprisoned in the camps... the nazis disliked people who worshipped any other thing than their ideology
some even tried to create their own supposedly germanic religion
they didn't hate the catholics directly in rome so much because they decided to shut up anyway
Utter crap.

The Nazis and the Catholic Church signed the Concordat that ensured that Catholics would be free to worship as long as they didn't interfere with the regime of the Nazis.

The Nazis' own faith was a perverted version of Christianity as well...

The priests that were put into the camps were put there because they were political opponents of the Nazis - they preached anti-war messages etc., not simply because they didn't follow the Reich Church.

Forgot the "They are equally evil," option.

No I didn't. It's a multiple choice poll. Figure it out. ;)

No I didn't. It's a multiple choice poll. Figure it out. ;)
But neither of the options are 'both are equally evil' sooooooo...

Robert O. Paxton, a professor emeritus at Columbia University, defines fascism in his book The Anatomy of Fascism as:

A form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion.[3]

Sorry I forgot which nation/religion/cult are we talking about now? As I figure the above applies to us all.

Liasia']But neither of the options are 'both are equally evil' sooooooo...

Yeah, but if you think nazism is more evil than islamofascism, and that islamofascism is more evil than nazism, it follows that you think both are as evil as the other.

Robert O. Paxton, a professor emeritus at Columbia University, defines fascism in his book The Anatomy of Fascism as:

A form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion.[3]

Sorry I forgot which nation/religion/cult are we talking about now? As I figure the above applies to us all.
Maybe you.. i wouldn't define myslef that way. i don't read the daily mail.

Islamofascism. Nazis didn't claim that their shit came from a god.

Well considering I study Nazi Germany for my A-levels, but I obviously don't know a thing.

The Nazi's ideologically didn't like the church because people should devote entire loyalty to the fuhrer, and shouldnt have divided loyalty between him and the church.

However Germany had such a high christian population that the Nazi's couldn't just get rid of them, so they signed the agreement with the church to basically get them on side, however this later broke down.

The church was the only organisation to really speak up against the Nazis, and a church led campaign helped end euthanasia in Nazi Germany (well officially anyway).

The Nazis then later rounded up priests and stuff who were deemed trouble makers.

Also the Nazi's tried to introduce a new 'aryan' religion based on paganism (and you still reckon its the same as christianity?), in an attempt to try and turn people away from the church.


But then again what do I know? Nazis = Church obviously :rolleyes:

Yeah, but if you think nazism is more evil than islamofascism, and that islamofascism is more evil than nazism, it follows that you think both are as evil as the other.
Well, not really. It follows that you could think that, if one of them cleaned up i's act a bit. I don't know. Drunkeness:p

Well considering I study Nazi Germany for my A-levels, but I obviously don't know a thing.

The Nazi's ideologically didn't like the church because people should devote entire loyalty to the fuhrer, and shouldnt have divided loyalty between him and the church.

However Germany had such a high christian population that the Nazi's couldn't just get rid of them, so they signed the agreement with the church to basically get them on side, however this later broke down.

The church was the only organisation to really speak up against the Nazis, and a church led campaign helped end euthanasia in Nazi Germany (well officially anyway).

The Nazis then later rounded up priests and stuff who were deemed trouble makers.

Also the Nazi's tried to introduce a new 'aryan' religion based on paganism (and you still reckon its the same as christianity?), in an attempt to try and turn people away from the church.


But then again what do I know? Nazis = Church obviously :rolleyes:

The Nazis may have attempted to create a religion for (mostly) political, but they didn't seriously try to claim that their stuff came from a deity.

Liasia']Maybe you.. i wouldn't define myslef that way. i don't read the daily mail.

hehehe neither do I just watch CNN too much :p

i never said they did.

but to say that nazi ideology was rooted in christianity and nazism is a form of christian ideology is farcical.

if anything nazism was based on germanic/nordic traditions and history and isn't based on christian values as such

hehehe neither do I just watch CNN too much :p
..unfortunate. I don't see how you can stand all the adverts, its like 2 minuites of news and then a 5 minuite ad break. rediculous.

Also while I'm at it:

Facists = you must be loyal to the state
Islamofascists = you must be loyal to allah

Well considering I study Nazi Germany for my A-levels, but I obviously don't know a thing.
Just because you studied it at A-level doesn't mean that you are actually good at it.
The Nazi's ideologically didn't like the church because people should devote entire loyalty to the fuhrer, and shouldnt have divided loyalty between him and the church.
Yes... this is why they created the Reich Church. But religious fanaticism also helped the Nazis. So Catholocism was tolerated, because it's a fairly hot-blooded religion.
However Germany had such a high christian population that the Nazi's couldn't just get rid of them, so they signed the agreement with the church to basically get them on side, however this later broke down.
The Concordat worked perfectly in that the Pope didn't ever intervene. That's really what they wanted. And a fair amount of priests stuck to it as well.
The church was the only organisation to really speak up against the Nazis, and a church led campaign helped end euthanasia in Nazi Germany (well officially anyway).
You're tarring it all with one brush. Some priests spoke out. A fair few of them were against euthanasia. Not all of them.

And the Catholic Church was officially neutral, in terms of what the Pope thought.
The Nazis then later rounded up priests and stuff who were deemed trouble makers.
They only rounded up the priests after the communists, teachers, students and other threats to their control. They were much more tolerant of priests than they were of students.
Also the Nazi's tried to introduce a new 'aryan' religion based on paganism (and you still reckon its the same as christianity?), in an attempt to try and turn people away from the church.
It was a perverted version of protestantism... it had the Bible, but also a sword.

And it was more about fighting for the Führer than about being Aryan (although that was a part of it, granted).

Also while I'm at it:

Facists = you must be loyal to the state
Islamofascists = you must be loyal to allah
This is Nazism vs. Islamofascism.

Nazism - you must be loyal to the Führer
Islamofascism - you must be loyal to Allah.

Both are essentially the worship of one central figure.

Liasia']..unfortunate. I don't see how you can stand all the adverts, its like 2 minuites of news and then a 5 minuite ad break. rediculous.
I find it interesting to see how America views the rest of the World, so 2 minutes of wierd foreign stuff then 5 minutes of Rolex golfing challenge, it all makes sense :cool:

Muhammed is a False Prophet
Allah is a Man-made God
the Koran is Man written

i think that sums it up

Muhammed is a False Prophet
Allah is a Man-made God
the Koran is Man written

i think that sums it up
The same goes for Jesus, Iohova and the Bible.

No I didn't. It's a multiple choice poll. Figure it out. ;)

Oh, now I see....the correct answer is....five.:D

Jesus = Savior
God= Father, son and holy spirit

Chuck Norris. Think about it :eek:

*opens hot dog, peanut, popcorn, and beer stand*

Oh, now I see....the correct answer is....five.:D

Now you're just confusing me in order to persuade me to start drinking. OKAY I WILL. :cool:

*opens hot dog, peanut, popcorn, and beer stand*
Can I have a bucket of salted popcorn, 2 large and 1 small beer to go please?

Can I have a bucket of salted popcorn, 2 large and 1 small beer to go please?
that will be 10 dollars please...


*starts kettle of boiling water for ears of corn, melts butter*

Nazism is definately not christian based, it was mainly influenced by darwinism funnily enough, the "survival of the fittest"

that will be 10 dollars please...


*starts kettle of boiling water for ears of corn, melts butter*
Wow seriously good value for money, I'll be back for more ;)
*hands over 10 dollars*

It's like a trainwreck waiting to happen isn't it...

*Runs away*

Nazism is definately not christian based, it was mainly influenced by darwinism funnily enough, the "survival of the fittest"

that guy knows what he's talking about! Super-human race lol! yeah i cant even get out of bed in the morning let alone have blonde hair and blue eyes!

but yes Darwinism is one of the main Contributors to Hitlers mad obsession with power . Super human Race - Killing loads of Jews which Muslims believe Didnt happen what planet are they on.

Jesus = Savior
God= Father, son and holy spirit
If you can say that Mohammed (peace be upon him) is a false prophet and Allah is a false god, and the Qu'ran rubbish, how is Christianity any better?

Super human Race - Killing loads of Jews which Muslims believe Didnt happen what planet are they on.
Hitler wasn't the first to talk of übermenschen, and most Muslims actually accept the Holocaust I think you'll find.

It was a perverted version of protestantism... it had the Bible, but also a sword.

And it was more about fighting for the Führer than about being Aryan (although that was a part of it, granted).
What Himmler wanted to institute was a bizarre form of neo-paganism. They claimed that they were descended from an "Aryan super-race" that lived on a now lost island in the Arctic ocean, that centered around a temple of War of some sort. They had begun to focus on the concept of a God of War as the primary deity of their new religion. Very strange religion, and it had very little to do with modern protestantism, catholicism or (just to make sure they are covered, and not associated with the perversion that is the Nazi faith) modern paganism either.

What Himmler wanted to institute was a bizarre form of neo-paganism. They claimed that they were descended from an "Aryan super-race" that lived on a now lost island in the Arctic ocean, that centered around a temple of War of some sort. They had begun to focus on the concept of a God of War as the primary deity of their new religion. Very strange religion, and it had very little to do with modern protestantism, catholicism or (just to make sure they are covered, and not associated with the perversion that is the Nazi faith) modern paganism either.
:confused:

I was under the impression that it was some crazy form of Protestantism (which is why they performed it in churches, with a Bible and a sword, instead of around stone circles or whatever).

Sorry...

If you can say that Mohammed (peace be upon him) is a false prophet and Allah is a false god, and the Qu'ran rubbish, how is Christianity any better?

Who said it was any better you were the one who mentioned Christianity in the First place.

and he is a Flase Prophet because (my itteligence and Evidence might be Overstreched hear ) but... from when he was first teaching round his 20's he then stopped becuase he was getting No guidence from "allah" then a long spell of nothing was getting his followers worried so when he was about 40 50 60 whatever age SOME how allah spoke to him again. now isnt there something false that a MAN who became a Merchant and Travels the Sea and Gets lots of Ideas from Other Nations and suddenly comes back and tells people about This Allah ? sounds abit false to me? i know that sounds strange but it's just one of those things

Hitler wasn't the first to talk of übermenschen, and most Muslims actually accept the Holocaust I think you'll find.

i had a Girlfriend once whos dad was a Muslim and He didnt Accept the Holocaust actually happend ?

Who said it was any better you were the one who mentioned Christianity in the First place.

and he is a Flase Prophet because (my itteligence and Evidence might be Overstreched hear ) but... from when he was first teaching round his 20's he then stopped becuase he was getting No guidence from "allah" then a long spell of nothing was getting his followers worried so when he was about 40 50 60 whatever age SOME how allah spoke to him again. now isnt there something false that a MAN who became a Merchant and Travels the Sea and Gets lots of Ideas from Other Nations and suddenly comes back and tells people about This Allah ? sounds abit false to me? i know that sounds strange but it's just one of those things
I don't see what's so wrong about that. People often go to "refocus" etc. for a while.

And the four Gospels are full of conflicting fiction written at various times, but I know that a lot of people are into that.

As an atheist, I try not to be ignorant about the various faiths of the world. Although I am a bit ignorant of Christianity, truth be told.

i had a Girlfriend once whos dad was a Muslim and He didnt Accept the Holocaust actually happend ?
One person. It's a faith with millions of adherents.

That's like me saying "all Christians like hanging out in Waco before getting blown up" because of David Koresh...

http://www.exposingsatanism.org/islam.htm

read this im not against you in any way i was just expressing my feelings lol well not feelings but it's just that sometimes there is an answer to peoples questions not that noone answering any Questions.

though I Dont Believe in Atheists because what does an Atheist believe?

i had a Girlfriend once whos dad was a Muslim and He didnt Accept the Holocaust actually happend ?

So? I know several christians who talk that shit also. I don't quite get the point of yours here.

And btw, please do some spellcheck before posting. Some of your sentences are really hard understand because of poor grammar and spelling.

though I Dont Believe in Atheists because what does an Atheist believe?

Uhhh.... what? *scratches head*

Who said it was any better you were the one who mentioned Christianity in the First place.

and he is a Flase Prophet because (my itteligence and Evidence might be Overstreched hear ) but... from when he was first teaching round his 20's he then stopped becuase he was getting No guidence from "allah" then a long spell of nothing was getting his followers worried so when he was about 40 50 60 whatever age SOME how allah spoke to him again. now isnt there something false that a MAN who became a Merchant and Travels the Sea and Gets lots of Ideas from Other Nations and suddenly comes back and tells people about This Allah ? sounds abit false to me? i know that sounds strange but it's just one of those things

Wait, isn't that what Jesus did? Ask yourself this question. why are there so many gaps in the bible. What happened to the 20-30 years after jesus's birth until his preaching and eventual crucifixion. Why do so many aspects of christianity seem to be taken from older eastern theologies?

If Muslims believe that Christ did exist and was a prophet (not a divine prodgeny) but respected Christians and Jews as "People of the book". Why is it that throughout history the most bigoted and anti-ani other religion are the Christians. Christ preached loved thy neighbour. And yet time and time again all I see from the christians I know is intolerance towards everyone elses beliefs. I suggest deep introspection into what it actually means to be christian before you go attacking others for their beliefs.

In regards to the actual debate. I believe that Nazism is worse. This is not to say that islamicist governments are right in their doings. I simply believe that the atrocities comited by the racist Nazi legislations is above anything even the fundementalist Islamics might try.

So? I know several christians who talk that shit also. I don't quite get the point of yours here.

And btw, please do some spellcheck before posting. Some of your sentences are really hard understand because of poor grammar and spelling.

Who said i was Christian and instead of not Reading the Sentance i wrote try actually reading the posts before or summat cus i dont think you understand anyway? and atacking other peoples faiths ? alot of people on these forums seem to only attack Christian Faith? and Athesists are people who celbrate Christmas and easter lol! so when people start having goes at me and start to label me as something im not maybe they need to take a look at who they are!

Best to take out the Plank from your eye then telling me about the splinter in mine. ever heard of that saying anyway im off to bed Forums get hard to read at Night Tararara Chuck Spell cheque whats that?

http://www.exposingsatanism.org/islam.htm

read this im not against you in any way i was just expressing my feelings lol well not feelings but it's just that sometimes there is an answer to peoples questions not that noone answering any Questions.

though I Dont Believe in Atheists because what does an Atheist believe?
That source was extremely biased.

And an atheist believes in a world in which God does not exist.

http://www.exposingsatanism.org/islam.htm

read this im not against you in any way i was just expressing my feelings lol well not feelings but it's just that sometimes there is an answer to peoples questions not that noone answering any Questions.

though I Dont Believe in Atheists because what does an Atheist believe?

Yay, gotta love Right wing Christian Propaganda. I love what it has to say about dungeons and dragons (the writer mispelt it by the way) OOO, it's evil because, horror of horrors, it makes you use your imagination to dream up fantasy worlds. People using their minds creatively. Eee, gods (or god if you prefer) it must be the work of the devil.
The pokemon one just made me laugh.

As for the confusing Athesim remark. I know a few atheists and generally speaking, they believe that there is nothing after death. No soul, no god, no original sin, just the life that is given to us and a desire to make the best of it.

As for the confusing Athesim remark. I know a few atheists and generally speaking, they believe that there is nothing after death. No soul, no god, no original sin, just the life that is given to us and a desire to make the best of it.
Yes, that is what I, as an atheist, believe. Which is why I want to influence the world and try to make it better, so that the people who are currently alive will have a better life, because you only got one.

*edits*

By the way, Nagak, welcome to the forums. Both of your posts so far have been excellent, I hope you continue in the same fashion.

hey i only said look at islam hehehe im reading the rest it is very Right wing kinda stuff like you said its not my source i only gave the source cus it was there to read it's that guys source hmmmmmm and it's pretty ludicrous but anyways off to beddy byes time night night hehehehe woooo RIGHT WING MAN ON THE INTERNET SOURCE thou some of it is appealing

hey it wont let me spell check this one? ah well it's understandable if you kinda look at the at the Latin hmmmm

Nazis hold the single-season record for evil, but the Islamofascists are closing in on the career record.

Yes, that is what I, as an atheist, believe. Which is why I want to influence the world and try to make it better, so that the people who are currently alive will have a better life, because you only got one.

*edits*

By the way, Nagak, welcome to the forums. Both of your posts so far have been excellent, I hope you continue in the same fashion.

wasnt Hitler an Atheist and he tried to change the world into a better place.....

These things are all bad but there is no such thing as evil in this world. Just power crazed corrupt stupid people who make mistakes

What I found something that is actual morally decent on the propaganda page. The Klu Klux Klan entry has some decent stuff to say. (Some of it is nonsense (The KKK are aligned with the freemasons... wait what?) but hey, the though is what counts).

Thanks for backing me Yootopia, I wholeheartidly support your quest in trying to get people to live a better life. In the end, if there is no God, no divinity, no heaven and hell, all we will have to show for ourselves is how we lived out our lives, and the memories in the heads of the people we have touched.

Neither is bad in itself. Fascism (or Nazism) is centrally a form of running government that co-opts power sources latent in community groups (it is called corporatism).

Fascism in itself is a pragmatic form of government, and likely to be quite effective (although with considerable potential to "go of the rails"). "Islamo-fascism" is a terrible form of government :headbang: (except in terms of crime reduction I guess) :sniper: which never was on the rails to start with although its ineffectiveness might potentially make it less dangerous.

Things like religious statements of Hitler were all reflections of that. Sometimes he sounded Christian sometimes pagan - deep down he was just a fascist.

wasnt Hitler an Atheist and he tried to change the world into a better place.....
Honestly, I don't think Hitler even knew what he was. Try reading Mein Kamph (from a student point of view not as someone trying to get concrete information on how to live ones life). It's the biggest collection of randomly gathered ideas the world has ever seen. The only part that makes any sense at all is the chapter on Propaganda, which the Nazis were quite good at.

Glad to hear that your a fairly moderate Christian (or as moderate as many I've seen), and don't give in to the whole "Jesus all the time or you follow the devil" kind of logic.

Who said i was Christian
I don't know. Atleast I didn't. I just pointed out that denying Holocaust has little to do with being Muslim.
and instead of not Reading the Sentance i wrote try actually reading the posts before or summat
I can't read your post before reading your sentences, as sentences are something one's post is made of. Not in your case though, as you seem to have only one sentence per post. :rolleyes:
cus i dont think you understand anyway? and atacking other peoples faiths ? alot of people on these forums seem to only attack Christian Faith?
You ask me? Well yeah, that seems to be true. So, you think it gives you the justification to attack Islam with similar stupidity?
and Athesists are people who celbrate Christmas and easter lol!
What on Earth does this have to do with anything?
so when people start having goes at me and start to label me as something im not maybe they need to take a look at who they are!
I atleast didn't say anything about who you might possibly be, and haven't noticed anyone else doing that neither.
Best to take out the Plank from your eye then telling me about the splinter in mine.
Uhhh... what?
ever heard of that saying anyway im off to bed Forums get hard to read at Night Tararara Chuck Spell cheque whats that?
No, I haven't. Seems like a good saying, just if you knew where to use it. And yea sure, go ahead. Watching TV seems to be something more suitable for you than discussing in internet is.

I would be inclined to say that Nazism is worse, because it killed more people than Islamofascism will probably ever kill.

The same goes for Jesus, Iohova and the Bible.
Why must Islam be constantly compared to Christianity?

We're not even comparing Islam to Christianity in this thread. We're comparing Nazism to Islamofascism (which is quite distinct from Islam the religion).

Gartref,
I would say the Chinese government holds the career record (thanks to "all star" Mao) - although they are slowing up in their old age. They are still pitching the citizens but they aren't bashing home runs with quite the frequency they used to.

You're able to select both poll options. Just so you know.

They both make for lousy party guests.

I don't see what's so wrong about that. People often go to "refocus" etc. for a while.

And the four Gospels are full of conflicting fiction written at various times, but I know that a lot of people are into that.

As an atheist, I try not to be ignorant about the various faiths of the world. Although I am a bit ignorant of Christianity, truth be told.
I find it strange that atheists in the west seem to always be rather more annoyed by Christianity than other religions, sometimes even fetishising Islam in order to bash Christianity.

though I Dont Believe in Atheists because what does an Atheist believe?
Atheists have no religious belief. They don't care about religion.

Nazis hold the single-season record for evil, but the Islamofascists are closing in on the career record.
By no means. The Islamofascist movement has probably not killed any more than 10,000 people in the last 20 years. Nowhere near that of the Nazis.

wasnt Hitler an Atheist and he tried to change the world into a better place.....
:rolleyes:

Yes, he was but think his ideas on how to make the world better were rather opposite to Yootopia's.

Gartref,
I would say the Chinese government holds the career record (thanks to "all star" Mao) - although they are slowing up in their old age. They are still pitching the citizens but they aren't bashing home runs with quite the frequency they used to.
I dare to disagree. Wasn't it the old Josif Vissarionovits who holds the record?

By no means. The Islamofascist movement has probably not killed any more than 10,000 people in the last 20 years. Nowhere near that of the Nazis.

You got him wrong. Of course it is closing in, for the obvious reason - how many people has Nazism actually killed in the last 20 years, compared to that 10,000 figure you gave? Not quite that much, I'd say! So one can hardly deny that they are closing in... not that they hadn't quite a lot of work still ahead!

wasnt Hitler an Atheist and he tried to change the world into a better place.....
I am struck by the irony of your name. Do you truly mean 'Us less iman', as in, 'United States < Iman'? :eek:

Gartref,
I would say the Chinese government holds the career record (thanks to "all star" Mao) - although they are slowing up in their old age. They are still pitching the citizens but they aren't bashing home runs with quite the frequency they used to.

Mao took steroids. Doesn't count.

I am struck by the irony of your name. Do you truly mean 'Us less iman', as in, 'United States < Iman'? :eek:
I think it's more because his inability to spell "Useless man" correctly.

> The Islamofascist movement has probably not killed any more than 10,000 people in the last 20 years.

I guess it depends on how you define Islamo-fascist (e.g. maybe you only include al Qaeda and exclude Somalian and Nigerian and Indonesian, Pakistani, Palestinian, Russian and other such groups) and "killed" (i.e. casual death vs. direct killing) and which deaths you exclude as legitimate (e.g. war and execution for crimes against Islam and so forth) but 10,000 seems terribly low.

Maybe just 10,000 Americans.:mp5: :sniper:

Please be a bit more spesific. What groups exactly, when, against who?

*opens hot dog, peanut, popcorn, and beer stand*

ill have one on the condition you have one too. you seem like too nice a guy for constant rows

Nazis hold the single-season record for evil, but the Islamofascists are closing in on the career record.


i think thats ulitimatly the point. im not a fan of the phrase but Islamofascists are not in any significant position of power and have not got any significant backing from the muslim population they claim to represent.

they got lucky on 2 fronts: 9/11, a well thought out, vicious attack on the centre of western capitalism and the US military and secondly, they use western invented technology against us, the internet etc.

but the hard realtiy is they are a lunatic fringe who had their day in the sun and are very much in retreat.

the nazis were a major industrial and military power who got corrupted from within and ended up trying to conquer the world.

different threats.

im obviously more put out by krazy islamic nutters TODAY than nazis, but long term, nazis every time.

8,000,000 in the camps. 30,000,000 in the wars.

different ball game

Islamofascism.

I see nazism is winning slightly. I have to agree on the basis of damage done, lives destroyed. Islamic fascism just hasn't done as much evil in that context.

On the other hand, idealogies of hate tend to be equally despicable.

One kind of sad thing I think we might be doing is discounting nazism as having stopped with WWII. Forever is a long time, and it wouldn't surprise me to see nazism rise again in the world. Maybe even as a response to teh omg terrorists.

There are some people on this forum who I think really wouldn't mind this. There are too many people who agree with too many parts of the nazi idealogy. And their numbers will grow.

Both are equally Evil...Nazism needed to be whiped out, and so does Islamofascism today...

One kind of sad thing I think we might be doing is discounting nazism as having stopped with WWII. Forever is a long time, and it wouldn't surprise me to see nazism rise again in the world. Maybe even as a response to teh omg terrorists.
Maybe Islamofascism will be its next instance? I find it all the more dangerous because of its religious ties and growing prevalence. Also, whenever anyone criticises it they are scathingly attacked. Even Nazism never enjoyed that level of impunity.

How exactly are we defining Islamofascism?

Maybe Islamofascism will be its next instance? I find it all the more dangerous because of its religious ties and growing prevalence. Also, whenever anyone criticises it they are scathingly attacked. Even Nazism never enjoyed that level of impunity.
I've always said that the Islamofascists are the next great threat to civilization, and the biggest threat since the Nazis.

I'd say Nazism because that's genocide. Islamofascism, although horrible, is just suicidal protection of land against invaders if you dilute it.

Islamofascism.

Nazism has major racially-motivated limitations to its expansion outside of Europe/US and requires a level of political organization far greater than individual terror cells; Islamic extremism is loosely organized and able to adapt to any culture to sow its version of militant religion which enables it to thrive in places receptive to it. Also it is difficult to mask a Nazi front as a legitimate organization, something that Islamic extremists can do with far greater ease due to the religious overtones of their groups. They can masquerade for years as a normal religious school, mosque, or Islamic organization while secretly sowing their radical Islam in the local population where it takes root and eventually spreads outward as a new generation

It's the religious background of Islamic extremism that makes it more evil than Nazism, aside from the equally heinous atrocities it commits; the fact that it targets the young, poor, and repressed as a source of support by playing off of their religion under the mask of aid makes it far more predatory and evil than Nazism. Even worse, it creates a climate of mutual suspicion between Muslim communities and others that only worsens the conditions that are fertile for extremist sentiments.

I'd say Nazism because that's genocide. Islamofascism, although horrible, is just suicidal protection of land against invaders if you dilute it.

Many Islamic extremists don't only want their own territories protected against the outside, but they want to spread their version of Islam worldwide and eradicate those who stand against them. They don't just want, for example, one nation like Saudi Arabia, Iraq, or Indonesia under their rule, they want the entire world under it and that is a very disturbing similarity to the Nazi ideal of genocide.

Many Islamic extremists don't only want their own territories protected against the outside, but they want to spread their version of Islam worldwide and eradicate those who stand against them. They don't just want, for example, one nation like Saudi Arabia, Iraq, or Indonesia under their rule, they want the entire world under it and that is a very disturbing similarity to the Nazi ideal of genocide.
Dar ar Islam. They want to create a world regime of Islam, and subject it to Sharia law. The extremists, of course.

I dare to disagree. Wasn't it the old Josif Vissarionovits who holds the record?


I'm gonna agree on this one, there were those prison camps in Siberia, the scorched earth policy.

The Nazis succeeded(at first) and are therefore more evil.

The Nazis succeeded(at first) and are therefore more evil.
Well that doesn't make a whole lot of sense argument wise. I mean, If my goal is to go out and kill 10,000 people,, but i only kill 9,999. Technicly I failed, but those that make me any less of an evil person. Al Qu'aida also suceeded in their plan to slam a few airplanes into important buildings. Those that make them less evil than Saddam Hussein, who failed to whipe out the Kurds in Northern Iraq?

As you may have noticed by now, I'm very Socratic in my analysis of things. In his immortal words "I know nothing" So, teach me, when your argument convinces me I'll actually believe you.

Also I don't think the term evil should really apply here. It all depends on point of view really. I mean, does Osama Bin Laden (Remember him? The old Terrorist chap on kidney dialysis.) consider himself evil. Surely not, he thinks he's on a holy crusade from Allah. Therefore In his eyes, his acts are justified. Good and evil are very much guided by point of view, so with is more evil, the man who kills for his social beliefs to save his countr, or the man who kills to preserve his faith and combat an oppresive western power that has, for the most part, left them to die? Who can make the destinction?

>Please be a bit more spesific. What groups exactly, when, against who?

Thats exactly the problem! You dont know who is included...
"islamo fascists" is too awkward a term to use, you will just be talking at cross purposes to anyone you argue with.