NationStates Jolt Archive

An interesting article I found. Aparantly Muslim leaders in Senegal are involved in kidnapping and smuggling children for the sex trade and for institutionalized begging. This is something we don't regularly associate with fundamentalist Islam.

U.N.: Koranic schools in Senegal fuel child trafficking (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/06/16/senegal.children.reut/index.html?section=cnn_topstories)

Religious teachers send tiny children into Dakar to beg
Friday, June 16, 2006; Posted: 1:10 p.m. EDT (17:10 GMT)

"DAKAR, Senegal (Reuters) -- In a dirty white T-shirt hanging down to his knees, 4-year-old Harouna Balde begs for coins in bare feet among the traffic on the polluted streets of Dakar.

Holding a rusty begging tin that is the trademark of the "talibes" -- students at Senegal's Koranic schools -- Balde says he must take back money or face a beating from his religious teacher, or marabout.

"I must bring back 500 francs ($0.90) every day to my master or face punishment," says the tiny boy. He travels from his squalid daara, or religious school, in the distant suburb of Thiaroye to beg all day in the city center.

Balde is one of an estimated 100,000 children begging on the streets of Senegal, according to U.N. officials -- most of them sent out by their religious teachers.

The begging is a modern corruption of a Senegalese tradition, which allowed poor rural families to provide their children with a basic education and sometimes send them to towns where they might have greater opportunities."

"Until recently most countries in West Africa did not have laws to penalize rape or child trafficking, although the situation was improving, Legrand said.

But as one government cracked down on abuse, the problem moved to another country. A recent drive against child prostitution in Gambia had driven sex tourism to other parts of the region, such as Togo, Legrand said."

No, normally its christian clerics you read about interfering with children. When did you start a thread about them?

No, normally its christian clerics you read about interfering with children. When did you start a thread about them?
We already had plenty of those threads. A new and different thread is ok.

So an African Muslim kid comes home and tells his dad "I had sex with my teacher today". The father is proud that his son is getting some, so he offers to buy the kid a new bike. The kid replies "Can I have a football instead? My ass is still kind of sore."

Are you sure this is fundamentalist? It sounds like something less motivated by religion.

No, normally its christian clerics you read about interfering with children. When did you start a thread about them?

Nodinia with the red herring. Woo!

Yes, Christian clerics mess with children too. No one is disputing this.

However, this is a report about institutionalized child smuggling and sex crimes by Islamic leaders in Senegal. Although I hear about priests touching little boys constantly, I havn't heard of a large-scale institutionalized child abuse like this in the Chrisitan denominations.

We already had plenty of those threads. A new and different thread is ok.


Not what I was getting at, at all.

NEWS JUST IN: HUMAN BEING ABUSES POWER
Forum Poster attempts to blame on Islam

NEWS JUST IN: HUMAN BEING ABUSES POWER
Forum Poster attempts to blame on Islam

I didn't blame it on Islam. I blamed this instance on Muslim Clerics - because they are the ones doing it in this instance.

If Islam condones child smuggling is another issue all together.

I didn't blame it on Islam. I blamed this instance on Muslim Clerics - because they are the ones doing it in this instance.

If Islam condones child smuggling is another issue all together.
It's not your fault. It's just the new rule. You're alowed to say anything you want about white people and Christians, but if you post an actual article about Muslim human rights abuses or terrorism or mention problems involved with illegal immigration you're a racist. It's the reductionary way of not actually facing reality so that you can sit in a comfortable PC bubble your whole life. You should try it. It's very empowering to be able to smuglly sit in your PC bubble and point at people and say, "I'm better than you are because I'm uber-tolerant."

It's not your fault. It's just the new rule. You're alowed to say anything you want about white people and Christians, but if you post an actual article about Muslim human rights abuses or terrorism or mention problems involved with illegal immigration you're a racist. It's the reductionary way of not actually facing reality so that you can sit in a comfortable PC bubble your whole life. You should try it. It's very empowering to be able to smuglly sit in your PC bubble and point at people and say, "I'm better than you are because I'm uber-tolerant."

Can't talk bad about US Democratic Party people, either, or you're a fascist.

Cut those clerics dangling parts off

And cut the dangling parts of any christian cleric that does the same

or jewish, or budhist, or of any other religion


Cut cut cut.

What is the controversy about?

Holy hell that sucks :(

It's good to hear that the govt's are cracking down on it though.

It's not your fault. It's just the new rule. You're alowed to say anything you want about white people and Christians, but if you post an actual article about Muslim human rights abuses or terrorism or mention problems involved with illegal immigration you're a racist. It's the reductionary way of not actually facing reality so that you can sit in a comfortable PC bubble your whole life. You should try it. It's very empowering to be able to smuglly sit in your PC bubble and point at people and say, "I'm better than you are because I'm uber-tolerant."

My mistake. I'll correct it:

This just in... the Muslim Clerics trafficking in children were in fact white Christian priests in disguise! Its a Crusader Zionist conspiracy! :D

My mistake. I'll correct it:

This just in... the Muslim Clerics trafficking in children were in fact white Christian priests in disguise! Its a Crusader Zionist conspiracy! :D
Another way to go would be,

"Man that's horrible. I didn't know that was going on. Is anyone trying to do anything about it?"

Then there could actually be a discussion about the particular issue the article addresses. If you'd like to discuss the abuse scandal in the Catholic church you can post a seperate thread about that. Or, if you'd like to draw a comparison between the two you could say something like, "maybe there's something to the theory that it is sexual repression that leads to this type of victimization of women and children. When you look at this article and compare the issues involved with the sexual abuse scandals in the Catholic church, another religion notorious for it's sexual repression, it kinda says something."

Yes, Christian clerics mess with children too. No one is disputing this.Lets put it in context.

as we speak, somewhere near your house a Child is being sexually penetrated by a cleric..

Chances are the abuser is Not muslim...(Christian is more likely)

My bet: 99% chances that random cleric is NOT MUSLIM.

Lets put it in context.

as we speak, somewhere near your house a Child is being sexually penetrated by a cleric..

Chances are the abuser is Not muslim...(Christian is more likely)

My bet: 99% chances that random cleric is NOT MUSLIM.
yep. Don't talk about anything that is not going on right near your house.

Lets put it in context.

as we speak, somewhere near your house a Child is being sexually penetrated by a cleric..

Chances are the abuser is Not muslim...(Christian is more likely)

My bet: 99% chances that random cleric is NOT MUSLIM.

I don't have any statistics on child abuse in Islamic society vs child abuse in Christian society, do you? I'd honestly be curious to see which group does abuse children more, if you have any statistics on the issue.

An interesting article I found. Aparantly Muslim leaders in Senegal are involved in kidnapping and smuggling children for the sex trade and for institutionalized begging.

So should we take this as a "Islam is a religion of child rape" thread?

I don't have any statistics on child abuse in Islamic society vs child abuse in Christian society, do you?I dont,

my bet stands.

So should we take this as a "Islam is a religion of child rape" thread?

Of course. The lesson here is anything bad is worse when it's done by a Muslim. And the 101st Fighting Keyboarders here will keep harping on such things until a time as they finally get their wet dream come true and we have Global Muslim Holocaust.

the 101st Fighting Keyboarders

Jesus bless them with his mighty spew in their faces.

Just like to point out,
christianity doesnt allow child abuse-christianity says its wrong-but some christian priests still abuse children.
Islam doesnt allow child abuse either-islam says its wrong-but some muslim clerics abuse childern.
I think the problem here is not with either religion but with people in power abuseing their position and abusing children.
However there do seem to be a lot of threds on this site highlighting muslim wrongdoings- I ask if there is a sectet motivation to blacklist muslims(muslims child molest muslims blow people up-well guess what catholics do too!)-or is it just plain ignorance

Just like to point out,
christianity doesnt allow child abuse-christianity says its wrong-but some christian priests still abuse children.
Islam doesnt allow child abuse either-islam says its wrong-but some muslim clerics abuse childern.
I think the problem here is not with either religion but with people in power abuseing their position and abusing children.
However there do seem to be a lot of threds on this site highlighting muslim wrongdoings- I ask if there is a sectet motivation to blacklist muslims(muslims child molest muslims blow people up-well guess what catholics do too!)-or is it just plain ignorance

You missed all the anti-Christian threads of the last year, and all the pro-Christian threads that get stomped on by the non-religious or the pretend-Islamic.

Just like to point out,

Your post falls on deaf ears. Lately, in the West (Europe, US, etc), the fashionable thing is to believe that if one Muslim does it, ALL Muslims do it.

Just like to point out,
christianity doesnt allow child abuse-christianity says its wrong-but some christian priests still abuse children.
Islam doesnt allow child abuse either-islam says its wrong-but some muslim clerics abuse childern.

Just to clarify, I don't recall anyone actually saying anything about Islam as a religion. We're talking about Muslim clerics.

People seem to be trying to defend the bad behavior of these Muslim clerics via the strawman of "OMG, they're bashing Islam!" Aside from being a strawman, it isn't accurate as no one said anything about Islam here.

You missed all the anti-Christian threads of the last year, and all the pro-Christian threads that get stomped on by the non-religious or the pretend-Islamic.
well I cant comment on what i havent read, but anti islamic threads seem top be the dish of the day.Maybe a couple of people on this site should try reading the Koran and actually gain some understanding before they comment on what tehy dont know.
this thread just seems to be to be saying-look at these evil child molesting muslims, when child abuse happens in all cultures.

You missed all the anti-Christian threads of the last year, and all the pro-Christian threads that get stomped on by the non-religious or the pretend-Islamic.

Can you link to the thread where someone suggested we need to sterilize or murder all the Christians in the world?

We're talking about Muslim clerics.

All of them?

Can you link to the thread where someone suggested we need to sterilize or murder all the Christians in the world?


Zzzinnng!! :D

Just to clarify, I don't recall anyone actually saying anything about Islam as a religion. We're talking about Muslim clerics.

People seem to be trying to defend the bad behavior of these Muslim clerics via the strawman of "OMG, they're bashing Islam!" Aside from being a strawman, it isn't accurate as no one said anything about Islam here.
and I am in no way tryiing to defend these peoples actions-I dont have a blind spot wher muslims are concerned-I just think that some people will get the wrong idea about the purpose of this thread.

It's not your fault. It's just the new rule. You're alowed to say anything you want about white people and Christians, but if you post an actual article about Muslim human rights abuses or terrorism or mention problems involved with illegal immigration you're a racist. It's the reductionary way of not actually facing reality so that you can sit in a comfortable PC bubble your whole life. You should try it. It's very empowering to be able to smuglly sit in your PC bubble and point at people and say, "I'm better than you are because I'm uber-tolerant."
'Tis amazing indeed. Oh, and wait, whenever you do say anything about non Christians/ non whites, you will get the typical "but you forgot to mention what random white/Christian X did 500 years ago". :rolleyes: May they choke on their PC stupidity.

It's not your fault. It's just the new rule. You're alowed to say anything you want about white people and Christians, but if you post an actual article about Muslim human rights abuses or terrorism or mention problems involved with illegal immigration you're a racist.

No, it's when you say ALL Muslims are terrorists that you're bigotted.

Same as when you say ALL Christians are pedophiles.

Some, an isolated few, may be, and that should be dealt with; but to proclaim the many is responsible for the actions of a few makes you ignorant and, frankly, retarded.

No, it's when you say ALL Muslims are terrorists that you're bigotted.

Same as when you say ALL Christians are pedophiles.

Some, an isolated few, may be, and that should be dealt with; but to proclaim the many is responsible for the actions of a few makes you ignorant and, frankly, retarded.
Well, all militant Muslims are terrorists. Surely that is sufficient categorization.

Just like to point out,

christianity doesnt allow child abuse-christianity says its wrong

Islam doesnt allow child abuse either-islam says its wrong

I just wanted to quote that part.

Well, all militant Muslims are terrorists.

That's not true.

One can believe deeply and staunchly in Islam and believe that the world would be a better place if everyone were Muslim and not be a terrorist, just as a person can believe that the only way to Heaven is through Jesus and not be a terrorist.

Belief does not equal action.

I feel like debate here on NS has moved beyond regular debate, into the realm of "pre-emptive debating". Rather than wait for an opponent to make a blanket statement about an ethnicity or religion, debaters here are now making that blanket statement for their opposition so that they can save time and call them assholes in advance.

Marginalization of opponents by lumping them together seems to be a favored tactic as well. We're even seeing people going beyond the traditional labels of "right-wing" and "left-wing" to clever titles like the "101st Fighting Keyboarders". Such creativity is sadly lacking in some areas of debates, so I hope we can count on other borderline deragatory nicknames being invented in the future.

Really, seeing NS reach levels of debate only satired on the Colbert Report makes having this account all worth it.

well I cant comment on what i havent read, but anti islamic threads seem top be the dish of the day.Maybe a couple of people on this site should try reading the Koran and actually gain some understanding before they comment on what tehy dont know.
this thread just seems to be to be saying-look at these evil child molesting muslims, when child abuse happens in all cultures.

Well, I've read the Koran a few times. I'm quite familiar with what it says; I've got a degree in religious studies. This type of this is my forte. :D

And, on that note, you still seem to be slipping into the strawman fallacy of addressing people who are attacking Islam with those of us who are calling out Muslim child abusers. There is a difference between the two, as pointed out already.

Finally, yes, child abuse happens in all cultures. But its especially vile when it occurs from someone in a position of religious authority. Thus, child abusing priests get special attention, as do child abusing imams.

All of them?

No, not all Muslim clerics. We're just talking about the ones referred to in the article. Aparantly this is a large, institutionalized system that occurs all over Africa in Islamic communities.

No, not all Muslim clerics.

Ok, just making sure.

That's not true.

One can believe deeply and staunchly in Islam and believe that the world would be a better place if everyone were Muslim and not be a terrorist, just as a person can believe that the only way to Heaven is through Jesus and not be a terrorist.

Belief does not equal action.

"Militant" means you're using weapons to accomplish your aim.

"Militant" means you're using weapons to accomplish your aim.

Ah ... ok I will accept that and agree with you.

Unfortunately, what most people don't realise is that the terms "militant" and "Islam" should never be used in the same sentence.

We have a bunch nowdays, however, who've made it so.

Ah ... ok I will accept that and agree with you.

Unfortunately, what most people don't realise is that the terms "militant" and "Islam" should never be used in the same sentence.

We have a bunch nowdays, however, who've made it so.
That's your opinion. There are millions of militant Muslims who believe they are exactly that, as deeply as you may believe otherwise. And it isn't Dick Cheney telling them to call themselves that.

That's your opinion. There are millions of militant Muslims who believe they are exactly that, as deeply as you may believe otherwise. And it isn't Dick Cheney telling them to call themselves that.

The only thing I disagree with here is the word "millions". I highly doubt it's that many.

"Militant" means you're using weapons to accomplish your aim.If that it so..

Most Governements are Militant.

If that it so..

Most Governements are Militant.
They are, aren't they? :)

No, it's when you say ALL Muslims are terrorists that you're bigotted.

Same as when you say ALL Christians are pedophiles.

Some, an isolated few, may be, and that should be dealt with; but to proclaim the many is responsible for the actions of a few makes you ignorant and, frankly, retarded.
That's not what this thread was about. It was about a particular Muslim country that this was a problem in.

That's not what this thread was about. It was about a particular Muslim country that this was a problem in.tell that to the Islamophobe..

...a large, institutionalized system that occurs all over Africa in Islamic communities.

Just like the Catholics eh?