NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm watching "Countdown to Doomsday" on the Sci-Fi channel, and it's pretty convincing in explaining that humanity is pretty much screwed.

1. In the last 50 years, we've lost 20% of topsoil, 20% of our agricultural land, and similiar losses in the ecosystem. Within 50 years, the rainforests in South America and Africa will be reduced to 5% of what they are today.

2. Global warming. There's huge amounts of methane in the Earth's oceans, and once the oceans reach a certain tempature thereshold within the next 10 years, the methane bubbles to the surface and magnifies the Greenhouse Effect a hundred-fold. Earth will become like Venus.

3. Biological viruses like Smallpox and Avian Flu and SARS can pretty much kill 1/2 of the world's population MINIMUM should a pandemic break out.

4. The USA's refusal to sign the Kyoto Accord because of stupid "Oh, but it will ruin the USA's economy" pretty much has doomed Earth. The US consumes 1/4 of the world's resources, and is the leading polluter on Earth. Various nations that has signed the Kyoto Accord like Japan hasn't taken "significant economic hit".

5. A full 2/3 of ALL life on Earth will be extinct within the end of this century because of humans destroying and polluting ecosystems.

There's plenty more doomsday scenarios (mostly natural phenomna) but these 5 bother me the most, and are probably the worst of them all, considering it's entirely man-made or mankind are responible for them.

Makes me really think that if 90% of the human race were to die out, then it would save Earth from destruction. If 90% of humans die from Smallpox, Avian Flu, SARS, or nuclear war or whatever, then Earh itself will be saved for future intelligent life to evolve in (and possibly far more logical and wise than humans- like Star Trek's Vulcans). Because there'll be 90% less pollution, ecological damage, global warming, and pretty much a huge cut in man-caused destruction on Earth. Simply put, there's TOO MANY HUMANS on Earth.

God, I'm so depressed after watching "Countdown to Disaster". What's the point of living if the Earth and humankind will die out in our lifetimes (by 2020 to 2050)? Stupid-ass Politics has doomed the human race to extinction and turn Earth into a dead barren planet.

God, I'm so depressed after watching "Countdown to Disaster". What's the point of living if the Earth and humankind will die out in our lifetimes (by 2020 to 2050)? Stupid-ass Politics has doomed the human race to extinction and turn Earth into a dead barren planet.

Why depressed? During the massive civil wars that sweep the globe when the oil runs out, you can open your bedroom window, crank your stereo as loud as you can (using the last of your generator power), and stick your belt-fed machinegun out the window, firing from the hip at anything that moves outside your pretty suburban home.

Or, you can hide in your basement, weeping for the fate of mankind (or maybe just for yourself, thinking "this is the end!").

Oh, and nature can recover from mankind. Even if we use all of the nukes.

I'm watching "Countdown to Doomsday" on the Sci-Fi channel, and it's pretty convincing in explaining that humanity is pretty much screwed.

1. In the last 50 years, we've lost 20% of topsoil, 20% of our agricultural land, and similiar losses in the ecosystem. Within 50 years, the rainforests in South America and Africa will be reduced to 5% of what they are today.

2. Global warming. There's huge amounts of methane in the Earth's oceans, and once the oceans reach a certain tempature thereshold within the next 10 years, the methane bubbles to the surface and magnifies the Greenhouse Effect a hundred-fold. Earth will become like Venus.

3. Biological viruses like Smallpox and Avian Flu and SARS can pretty much kill 1/2 of the world's population MINIMUM should a pandemic break out.

4. The USA's refusal to sign the Kyoto Accord because of stupid "Oh, but it will ruin the USA's economy" pretty much has doomed Earth. The US consumes 1/4 of the world's resources, and is the leading polluter on Earth. Various nations that has signed the Kyoto Accord like Japan hasn't taken "significant economic hit".

5. A full 2/3 of ALL life on Earth will be extinct within the end of this century because of humans destroying and polluting ecosystems.

There's plenty more doomsday scenarios (mostly natural phenomna) but these 5 bother me the most, and are probably the worst of them all, considering it's entirely man-made or mankind are responible for them.

Makes me really think that if 90% of the human race were to die out, then it would save Earth from destruction. If 90% of humans die from Smallpox, Avian Flu, SARS, or nuclear war or whatever, then Earh itself will be saved for future intelligent life to evolve in (and possibly far more logical and wise than humans- like Star Trek's Vulcans). Because there'll be 90% less pollution, ecological damage, global warming, and pretty much a huge cut in man-caused destruction on Earth. Simply put, there's TOO MANY HUMANS on Earth.

God, I'm so depressed after watching "Countdown to Disaster". What's the point of living if the Earth and humankind will die out in our lifetimes (by 2020 to 2050)? Stupid-ass Politics has doomed the human race to extinction and turn Earth into a dead barren planet.
I'm way too lazy to research any of this, but I can tell you that you're overreacting a little. Future predictions are always unreliable, because they cannot take into account new technologies, innovations, or events that may happen. There have been many doomsayers in the past making similar predictions that have failed to come true.

Problems such as logging or pollution have actually gotten better (at least in developed countries). For example, in the US, specifically the Pacfic Northwest, as far as I know, there are many restrictions on the timber industry that prevent them from logging national forests, old-growth, etc. We have about the right balance of sustainability; the economy did not suffer as a result of the restrictions, and while companies like Weyehauser don't have access to the best lumber, they still turn a profit, and their "crops" are reforested and cut down again and again.

I don't know about the US being the biggest polluter in the world; is that per capita, or total? I remain skeptical. And 'resources' is something of a nebulous term; some resources, like oil, are irreplacable, but that could also include renewable ones, such as fish, or agriculture. Simply because the US a materialist society that consumes a large amount of goods per capita does not mean that the human race is doomed.

As for pandemics, I call bullshit on that one. No one gets smallpox anymore, and even IF Avian Flu becomes airborne, the fact that we have knowledge of the danger, drugs, and instant communications means that any outbreak will be swiftly contained. One half of the global population is a gross exaggeration. The Spanish Flu, by comparison, only killed several MILLION people, back when they didn't have a clue what it was or how to fight it.

Why depressed? During the massive civil wars that sweep the globe when the oil runs out, you can open your bedroom window, crank your stereo as loud as you can (using the last of your generator power), and stick your belt-fed machinegun out the window, firing from the hip at anything that moves outside your pretty suburban home.

Or, you can hide in your basement, weeping for the fate of mankind (or maybe just for yourself, thinking "this is the end!").

Oh, and nature can recover from mankind. Even if we use all of the nukes.

Well, the thing is I want humankind to overcome these things and become a galactic power. But with politics as it is now, Kyoto accords and the US's stance and such, it will be nigh impossible to do so. I personally and honestly want to live long enough to move from Earth to a colony on Mars or some such thing- that'd make me very happy knowing that if Earth is destroyed, humankind will live on, in colonies on Mars and elsewhere, then be able to rebuild Earth.

As for nature- I know it can recover. But majestic animals like lions, tigers, elephants, etc. will become extinct.

I also heard that Earth only has a few hundred million years left of life. Because by then, the sun will be too hot for life to survive on Earth... while many people (mistakenly) think Earth will have forests, oceans, animals, etc. 5 billions years from now when the sun goes nova (assuming humans haven't survived and somehow move Earth to near-Mars orbit or some such thing).

As for pandemics, I call bullshit on that one. No one gets smallpox anymore, and even IF Avian Flu becomes airborne, the fact that we have knowledge of the danger, drugs, and instant communications means that any outbreak will be swiftly contained. One half of the global population is a gross exaggeration. The Spanish Flu, by comparison, only killed several MILLION people, back when they didn't have a clue what it was or how to fight it.

Is anyone else struck by the irony of the bolded phrase? :p

The USA's refusal to sign the Kyoto Accord because of stupid "Oh, but it will ruin the USA's economy" pretty much has doomed Earth.

Sure, blame everything on the Americans. When it is really cows that are the biggest polluters in the world.

Is anyone else struck by the irony of the bolded phrase? :p
Hahahha, I meant transmissible to humans via coughing, etc. Didn't even notice that ... :p

You're right, but I'm too stressed to think about it. Next week, when I'm on summer break, I'll figure out how to save the world.

Destroying the Earth is harder than you may have been led to believe.
How to destroy the Earth (http://qntm.org/destroy)

My advise is "don't trust the doom prophet!" Their motive is profit. People have predicted the end of the world for centuries and they've always been wrong. Every single one of those doom scenarios has been brough up before and none have ever come to pass.

When you get right down to it we humans are pretty damn small. In the US we have developed less than 5% of the land. That includes farms and roads and everything else. If you ever fly cross country you'll notice it takes an awful long time and if you keep looking out the window you'll see miles and miles and miles of undeveloped land. I'm not saying we should go out and expand over everything but we're nowhere near running out.

When you hear the Bird Flu warnings and rants just remember SARS. It seems every couple of years we get a new disease in the news that everyone jumps on and suddenly we're all doomed and then it turns out to be overhyped and hard to catch and we jump to a new disease and the whole cycle repeats. Small pox was the last big thing and that'd been wiped out except for a few cultures in a couple of secure labs. Even when it was a problem it didn't kill everyone. Just because something isn't a picnic doesn't make it an end-of-the-world riot.

The Venus argument for global warming is laughable at best. Some things to consider with Venus: it sits 30 million miles closer to the sun, has an atmospheric pressure more than 90 times that of Earth's, and the composition is mostly CO2 and sulfur compounds. Don't bring up the Venus argument again because it makes you look none to bright.

China is a bigger polluter than the US today by total and closing fast on per capita and would have gotten a free pass on the Kyoto treaty. Get China to cut back and we'll do the same.

All I can say is wow. You really need to read some books.

If you'd like some more doomsday scenarios try Exit Mundi (http://www.exitmundi.nl/exitmundi.htm)

I'm way too lazy to research any of this, but I can tell you that you're overreacting a little. Future predictions are always unreliable, because they cannot take into account new technologies, innovations, or events that may happen. There have been many doomsayers in the past making similar predictions that have failed to come true.

Hard statistics based on the loss of forests, farmland, topsoil, etc. dating from 1950 to 2006, as well as the human population explosion. Then extrapolate the trends from 2006 to 2050.

The documentary on the Sci-Fi Channel is pretty damn convincing with scientists explaining the why's and how's.

Problems such as logging or pollution have actually gotten better (at least in developed countries). For example, in the US, specifically the Pacfic Northwest, as far as I know, there are many restrictions on the timber industry that prevent them from logging national forests, old-growth, etc. We have about the right balance of sustainability; the economy did not suffer as a result of the restrictions, and while companies like Weyehauser don't have access to the best lumber, they still turn a profit, and their "crops" are reforested and cut down again and again.

I mean pollution from cars, factories, and such. People want their cars and cheap electricity (coal and oil power plants) as well as the everyday common consumer goods.

The Kyoto Accord calls for severe reductions in pollution from factories and cars- but it doesn't seem like the US is willing to do this (the government). An increasing number of people are starting to believe the government needs to actively do something about it- I can only hope the people wise up enough to kick out all these oil fat-cats and leaders who don't give a damn about Earth's future... before its too late.

I don't know about the US being the biggest polluter in the world; is that per capita, or total? I remain skeptical. And 'resources' is something of a nebulous term; some resources, like oil, are irreplacable, but that could also include renewable ones, such as fish, or agriculture. Simply because the US a materialist society that consumes a large amount of goods per capita does not mean that the human race is doomed.

Renewable "resources" like fish and agriculture are in danger. The world lost 20% of our agricultural land between 1950 and 2006, and problems like over-fishing from increasing human populations needing to be fed (and the continued loss of farmland- look at China for a prime example of this). In addition, coral reefs are being damaged or killed en-masse by rising ocean tempatures (which will become even more pronounced should methane deposits in the ocean be released into the air). A full 1/2 to 1/3 of ocean life depend on coral reefs for survival and life- without coral reefs, the ecosystem in the oceans will be devastated, meaning huge drops in already low fish populations (meaning far less fish for human consumption).

As for pandemics, I call bullshit on that one. No one gets smallpox anymore, and even IF Avian Flu becomes airborne, the fact that we have knowledge of the danger, drugs, and instant communications means that any outbreak will be swiftly contained. One half of the global population is a gross exaggeration. The Spanish Flu, by comparison, only killed several MILLION people, back when they didn't have a clue what it was or how to fight it.

Several million? Hardly.

The Spanish flu killed 50 million people worldwide back then. Today's world is far "smaller" than back then. The prevalance of air travel and transportation in today's world means a sick person in, say, Africa can travel to the USA or anywhere in the world within 24 hours via plane.

Add the fact that in the former Soviet Union, there's a lot of virus, germ, bacteria, and disease weapons lying around. Some of the stockpiles are only guarded by a chainlink fence with a few daytime guards in some instances, meaning terrorists or such can easily get their hands on Smallpox and other biological weapons in the former USSR. Not only that, but people in the former USSR can be easily bribed- their lives aren't quite as luxurious or "first class" like Americans are.

Take a scenario for example...

A person infected with Smallpox (and doesn't know it) gets on a plane in Sarajevo. The person flies to Africa on a trip, and then unknowingly passes Smallpox onto various personnel the person comes in contact on the plane, and his destination in Africa. Then the other people on the plane interact with their own friends, co-workers, strangers, etc. and then these strangers spread the Smallpox to even more people.

What's the killer here is that Smallpox symptoms usually don't show up for 7 days or more after initial infection. A lot of people can be infected in 7 days in today's world thanks to air travel- and by the time governments realize what is happening, millions are already infected, and probably are infecting tens of millions more people (especially in India, China, Indonesia, etc.)

I believe all the planets will all soon circle into the sun one day, but that'll take some thousand trillion years. I think the earth is going through a common cycle for itself. I believe some parts in global warming, but not all of it. I mean the earth gets hotter because it's coming from down there not up here. Just because we have bigger hurricanes doesn't add any proof to the theory of global warming. There really is no concrete evidence that global warming exists. But we should take precaution.

But it's not hard to see in the next 250 years we'll be building our own manmade ozone layers, and our own earth air purifiers, and hell maybe even easier space travel. Science can overcome any obstacle.

As I'm watching the show right now, I do not have any links with me as I have yet to look through the web doing "research".

So what are you, Sharina, doing about any of this. Have you reduced your carbon footprint, do you only eat organically produced food etc.

It is so easy to watch a documentary and then post about it on an internet forum, but if you want things to change, start with your own behaviour.

I, for example, only use a car when unavoidable. Otherwise I walk, or cycle. I prepare and eat fresh food produced locally rather than packaged pre prepared stuff that has been shipped half weay around the planet. If we all did just a little, the prognosis would improve dramatically. This does not have to be world shattering, just a small change here and there. Turn down the AC or heating (depends on where you are), swithc off a few lights. Choose local produce where possible etc.

But it's not hard to see in the next 250 years we'll be building our own manmade ozone layers, and our own earth air purifiers, and hell maybe even easier space travel. Science can overcome any obstacle.

Assuming we live that long.

1. Oil runs out.
2. Overpopulation.
3. Global warming (look at the last 15 years- we've had the 10 hottest summers on record in the last 15 years)

And not to mention all the wars that will erupt once natural non-renewable resources run out.

Well, the thing is I want humankind to overcome these things and become a galactic power. But with politics as it is now, Kyoto accords and the US's stance and such, it will be nigh impossible to do so. I personally and honestly want to live long enough to move from Earth to a colony on Mars or some such thing- that'd make me very happy knowing that if Earth is destroyed, humankind will live on, in colonies on Mars and elsewhere, then be able to rebuild Earth.

As for nature- I know it can recover. But majestic animals like lions, tigers, elephants, etc. will become extinct.

I also heard that Earth only has a few hundred million years left of life. Because by then, the sun will be too hot for life to survive on Earth... while many people (mistakenly) think Earth will have forests, oceans, animals, etc. 5 billions years from now when the sun goes nova (assuming humans haven't survived and somehow move Earth to near-Mars orbit or some such thing).

:D Galactic power? Shifting Earth to Mars robit? You really need to read some books.

So what are you, Sharina, doing about any of this. Have you reduced your carbon footprint, do you only eat organically produced food etc.

It is so easy to watch a documentary and then post about it on an internet forum, but if you want things to change, start with your own behaviour.

I, for example, only use a car when unavoidable. Otherwise I walk, or cycle. I prepare and eat fresh food produced locally rather than packaged pre prepared stuff that has been shipped half weay around the planet. If we all did just a little, the prognosis would improve dramatically. This does not have to be world shattering, just a small change here and there. Turn down the AC or heating (depends on where you are), swithc off a few lights. Choose local produce where possible etc.

I already do most of these things- I eat organic food and use lights only when needed. I don't even have a car (so no worries there). I only use fans- I don't have air conditioning set up yet.

I use public transit whenever possible (subways and commuter rail).

:D Galactic power? Shifting Earth to Mars robit? You really need to read some books.

Just begun looking on google for all these stuff to find proof and such. Here's one.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1154784.stm

Assuming we live that long.

1. Oil runs out.
2. Overpopulation.
3. Global warming (look at the last 15 years- we've had the 10 hottest summers on record in the last 15 years)

And not to mention all the wars that will erupt once natural non-renewable resources run out.

1. Always look toward agriculture for fuels
2. World Wars are always healthy
3. Here in Bako, our summers are getting cooler and cooler year 1996-107, 1997-104, 1998-108, 1999-108,2000-105, 2001-105, 2002-105, 2003-104, 2004-102, 2005-103.

I don't know about you, but global warming doesn't seem like much of an alarm. And no resources won't run out, because theres the whole fuckin universe pal. Like I said, science can overcome an obstacle. You just gotta put your mind to it ;)

I already do most of these things- I eat organic food and use lights only when needed. I don't even have a car (so no worries there). I only use fans- I don't have air conditioning set up yet.

I use public transit whenever possible (subways and commuter rail).

Fine, so you should be pushing people toward doing the little things, rather than running round in circles screaming about the big things that no one individual can do jack shit about.

A cumulation of the little things will have an effect on the big ones.

Sharina, remember that guy who said that the government should close all of the patent offices because everything has already been invented? He was a dumbass. Don't count on the world suddenly dying. If the planet goes barren, human activity is going to slow down before that time. Fact is, humans are more fragile than the Earth. If we weren't, then we would have no problem with pollution and food and stuff. Infrastructures will collapse, and the remaining nations of the world will have difficulty in the ensuing years, be it from civil unrest or activists or a simple lack of resources. It's not nearly as dismal as you think, hippy.

I also heard that Earth only has a few hundred million years left of life. Because by then, the sun will be too hot for life to survive on Earth... while many people (mistakenly) think Earth will have forests, oceans, animals, etc. 5 billions years from now when the sun goes nova (assuming humans haven't survived and somehow move Earth to near-Mars orbit or some such thing).Assuming that when the sun goes supernova the solar system survives that.

Just begun looking on google for all these stuff to find proof and such. Here's one.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1154784.stm
You do realize that humanity wouldn't exist in its current form in a billions years no matter what, right?

And as for galactic power:
So you give someone an inch and they want a yard. Given them a rocket ship and suddenly they want a star ship. SF writers want to use exotic settings on alien planets, but the real estate in our solar system mostly looks like a bunch of rocks. "That's OK," the writer thinks, "There are a million-jillion other solar systems in the galaxy, surely they are not all a bunch of rocks. I know that those spoil-sports at NASA have ruined our solar system for SF writers since their nosey space probes failed to find dinosaur-infested jungles of Venus and scantily-clad Martian princesses. But they haven't sent probes to other stars yet! Why not turn my rocket ship into a star ship?"

Unfortunately it isn't that easy. The basic problem is that interstellar distances are freaking huge.

From The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams (1979):

The introduction begins like this: "Space," it says, "is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mindboggingly big it is. I mean you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space. Listen ..." and so on.

Let's make a mental model. Say the scale is such that one astronomical unit is equal to one millimeter (1/25th inch). There is a glowing dot for the Sun, and one millimeter away is a microscopic speck representing the Earth. The edge of the solar system is about at Pluto's orbit, which varies from 30 mm to 50 mm from the Sun (about 1 and 3/16 inch to almost 2 inches). Imagine this ten-centimeter model floating above your palm.

This would put Proxima Centauri, the closest star to the Sun, at about 272 meters away. That's 892 feet, the length of about two and a half football fields or four and a half New York city blocks! Glance at the ten-centimeter solar system in your hand, then contemplate the nearest solar system four and a half city blocks away.

And the center of the galaxy would be about 1600 kilometers away (about 990 miles), which is a bit more than the distance from Chicago, Illinois to Houston, Texas.

"All right, all right!" the SF author grumbles, "So the distance is outrageous. What of it?"

This of it. How long do you think it is going to take to travel such distances? As an example, the Voyager 1 space probe is currently the fastest human made object with a rest mast, zipping along at a blazing 17.46 km/s. This means that in the space of an eyeblink the little speed demon travels a whopping eleven miles! That's smokin'. What if it was aimed at Proxima Centauri (it isn't), how long would it take to reach it?

About 74,000 years! Which means that if Neanderthal men had launched something as fast as Voyager 1 to Proxima, it would just barely be arriving right now. And the joke's on them. Neanderthals are extinct so not even their descendants would reap the benefit of any scientific broadcasts from the Proxima probe. A similar argument could be used against any interstellar probes we could launch.

This leaves us with two alternatives: deal with the fact that average human lifespan is 74 years, not 74,000; or make the starship go faster.
ProjectRho (http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/)

Did you even read my first response, Sharina?

Hard statistics based on the loss of forests, farmland, topsoil, etc. dating from 1950 to 2006, as well as the human population explosion. Then extrapolate the trends from 2006 to 2050.

The documentary on the Sci-Fi Channel is pretty damn convincing with scientists explaining the why's and how's.



I mean pollution from cars, factories, and such. People want their cars and cheap electricity (coal and oil power plants) as well as the everyday common consumer goods.

The Kyoto Accord calls for severe reductions in pollution from factories and cars- but it doesn't seem like the US is willing to do this (the government). An increasing number of people are starting to believe the government needs to actively do something about it- I can only hope the people wise up enough to kick out all these oil fat-cats and leaders who don't give a damn about Earth's future... before its too late.



Renewable "resources" like fish and agriculture are in danger. The world lost 20% of our agricultural land between 1950 and 2006, and problems like over-fishing from increasing human populations needing to be fed (and the continued loss of farmland- look at China for a prime example of this). In addition, coral reefs are being damaged or killed en-masse by rising ocean tempatures (which will become even more pronounced should methane deposits in the ocean be released into the air). A full 1/2 to 1/3 of ocean life depend on coral reefs for survival and life- without coral reefs, the ecosystem in the oceans will be devastated, meaning huge drops in already low fish populations (meaning far less fish for human consumption).

Have you heard of someone named Thomas Malthus?


Several million? Hardly.

The Spanish flu killed 50 million people worldwide back then. Today's world is far "smaller" than back then. The prevalance of air travel and transportation in today's world means a sick person in, say, Africa can travel to the USA or anywhere in the world within 24 hours via plane.

Add the fact that in the former Soviet Union, there's a lot of virus, germ, bacteria, and disease weapons lying around. Some of the stockpiles are only guarded by a chainlink fence with a few daytime guards in some instances, meaning terrorists or such can easily get their hands on Smallpox and other biological weapons in the former USSR. Not only that, but people in the former USSR can be easily bribed- their lives aren't quite as luxurious or "first class" like Americans are.

Take a scenario for example...

A person infected with Smallpox (and doesn't know it) gets on a plane in Sarajevo. The person flies to Africa on a trip, and then unknowingly passes Smallpox onto various personnel the person comes in contact on the plane, and his destination in Africa. Then the other people on the plane interact with their own friends, co-workers, strangers, etc. and then these strangers spread the Smallpox to even more people.

What's the killer here is that Smallpox symptoms usually don't show up for 7 days or more after initial infection. A lot of people can be infected in 7 days in today's world thanks to air travel- and by the time governments realize what is happening, millions are already infected, and probably are infecting tens of millions more people (especially in India, China, Indonesia, etc.)
Several, 50, same thing. The point is was it wasn't much more than about 4 or 5 percent of the global population.

Why would a terrorist do such a thing when it would so obviously harm his own (presumably Middle Eastern) population the greatest should it become a pandemic? Consider: the United States, and the rest of the western world have greater resources, access to drugs, medical care, and more efficient methods of quarantine and treatment than third-world countries.

You're right, a pandemic could spread faster today than in 1918. But understand that Spanish Flu was virtually unknown when it hit. We are a lot more prepared for such an outbreak today.

Yay! We're all gonna die!! Fuck humanity. We're a bunch of real bastards.

I'd start it off first with a nice big gun, but I'm too apathetic.

I actually watched the same thing. I don't know about all of their claims, but for the ones I did know something about, the doomsday scenarios seemed rather unlikely, particularly the prospects of a robot revolution or an accidental nuclear war with Russia. Don't get too worried about this... it's really little more than a list of disaster movie plots.

Meh, humans never stood a chance. What's a sad species clinging to a bit of dust compared to a Universe? Nothing! Nothing at all.

We'll be gone, either tomorrow or in 200 million years, and little would be changed in the Universe.

Global warming. There's huge amounts of methane in the Earth's oceans, and once the oceans reach a certain tempature thereshold within the next 10 years, the methane bubbles to the surface and magnifies the Greenhouse Effect a hundred-fold. Earth will become like Venus.

A runaway greenhouse effect? I don't think the scientific community supports that.

Humanity will survive global warming (as we know of it today).

Here's a few examples of what I'm talking about...

Agricultural loss:

http://www.environmentcolorado.org/envco.asp?id2=23275

http://www.infoforhealth.org/pr/m13/m13chap3_3.shtml

(shows the rate of loss of agricultural land)

Fishing losses:

http://na.nefsc.noaa.gov/lme/text/lme27.htm

(Migration to coastal cities in West Africa because of the expanding Sahara desert excaberates this problem in the Atlantic)

http://seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov/OCEAN_PLANET/HTML/peril_overfishing.html

http://www.un.org/events/tenstories/story.asp?storyID=800

(explains overfishing in detail and examples)

Global Warming:

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/2005/02/01/global_warming_methane_could_be_far_worse_than_carbon_dioxide.htm

http://www.hydrogen.co.uk/h2_now/journal/articles/3_Methane.htm

(explains my fears of methane causing an even worse global warming- triggered by human caused global warming)

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/04/0420_040420_earthday.html

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2100776,00.html

(explains what a runaway global warming will do with the world's oceans. Practically all coastal cities will be submerged underwater, and large swathes of land will be submerged like Florida for example)


When you add up all these things up, and realize that all these things are happening at the same time, a picture begins to form in your mind about a barren Earth in the future if these trends continue.

And you really think that stuff is true? First the sea level rise: If the trend continues we'd see 20-40 cm rise tops. That's about a foot and a half. Hardly enough to sink the whole world. And before you say that's average, it's sea level. Sea level doesn't vary very much because it's really all one big ocean.

Yes methane is a stronger GHG than CO2, but CO2 is only responsible for 4.2% to 8.4% of the GHE and methane does less than that because there is less methane than CO2. We're not going to turn into a copy of Venus.

Calm down. The last thing anyone needs or wants is someone running in circles screaming "THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!"

Food shortages are easily dealt with. By reducing our consumption of first and second level consumers and focusing on the lowest trophic level, we can produce much more food (and lower the cancer levels of the population). Similarly, strip farming, non-standard tilling techniques, careful irrigation, and windbreaks can help stop soil erosion.

Deforestation can be controlled by governments world-wide, when it begins to become a problem (shouldn't be much longer now, frankly).

Global warming is real, but not as accelerated as it is being claimed to be. With careful work we can slow it's process greatly. By switiching to green feuls and nuclear power, we can massively stop the production of C02.

Population control is necessary. While I cringe at the thought, a 2 or 1 child policy may soon be necessary to prevent massive extinction.

Pandemics... Well, as long as we plan for them it aint so much of a problem.

Basically, we have the warnings, we just have to make sure that the politicians actually take the steps to prepare and fix things.

And you really think that stuff is true? First the sea level rise: If the trend continues we'd see 20-40 cm rise tops. That's about a foot and a half. Hardly enough to sink the whole world. And before you say that's average, it's sea level. Sea level doesn't vary very much because it's really all one big ocean.

As the British article describes, the sea level might rise as much as 20 feet (a roughly 6 meters).

Yes methane is a stronger GHG than CO2, but CO2 is only responsible for 4.2% to 8.4% of the GHE and methane does less than that because there is less methane than CO2. We're not going to turn into a copy of Venus.

There's a lot of methane and "extra" CO2 locked in the tundras and the ocean floor. If the world continues to warm through human CO2 emissions from factories, cars, etc. then the tundra will melt, releasing methane and the "extra" CO2 molecules. Same thing happens in the oceans.

Calm down. The last thing anyone needs or wants is someone running in circles screaming "THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!"

Sometimes yelling and shouting is the only way to get people to "wake up" if the wool's pulled over their eyes. If more people go "Uh-oh, maybe that guy's right" then we'll have more people banging down the politicans doors demanding more action to be done to help keep the Earth from ecological disaster... like having the US ratify the Kyoto Protocol for one thing.

Food shortages are easily dealt with. By reducing our consumption of first and second level consumers and focusing on the lowest trophic level, we can produce much more food (and lower the cancer levels of the population). Similarly, strip farming, non-standard tilling techniques, careful irrigation, and windbreaks can help stop soil erosion.

Deforestation can be controlled by governments world-wide, when it begins to become a problem (shouldn't be much longer now, frankly).

Global warming is real, but not as accelerated as it is being claimed to be. With careful work we can slow it's process greatly. By switiching to green feuls and nuclear power, we can massively stop the production of C02.

Population control is necessary. While I cringe at the thought, a 2 or 1 child policy may soon be necessary to prevent massive extinction.

Pandemics... Well, as long as we plan for them it aint so much of a problem.

Basically, we have the warnings, we just have to make sure that the politicians actually take the steps to prepare and fix things.

I don't deny that we CAN save the planet. In fact, I encourage it.

The only problem is that the US and some other countries balk at this, and politicans aren't getting off their asses to do something like this... like passing legislation to encourage eco-friendly technology development, open up science labs to research said technologies, impose laws requiring ALL factories and power plants and cars to adhere to even sticter emission standards, fine companies who don't install scrubbers and such MORE severely than they are today, and so on.

The USA's excuse for not ratifying and following the Kyoto Protocol is "Oh, our economy growth will be negatively impacted by the Kyoto Protocol." What fucking bullshit. There will be major hits to the US economy if we don't do anything to heal the enviroment and undertake large scale restoration of it (like "healing" depleted fishing grounds- if there's no more fish, means no jobs... means economy is screwed, at least the fishing sector.. to cite an example).

Flush the shit kill your herds
eat the grass
smoke the pot

Nothing interesting here
Maybe that's another US crap?
Or an arabic intox?

Whatever invent another god and pray we are the fathers of your children.




The High Priest
- Scheisse uber alles -

The trend over the past 100 years is 1.5-3 mm/yr. The Future predictions go from 110-880mm by 2100 and if you put that in cm it comes to 11-88 cm. Still under a meter at the most and the 880mm is the uppermost limit possible. The real rise would probably fall within the 20-40 cm range. This comes from Wikipedia and they've got the references to back it up.

The Antarctic is actually getting colder. I know this conflicts with what you've been told but over 90% of the continent has been recorded getting colder since we started keeping records there. The majority of the South Pole isn't following the warming trend.

For the GHG cry wolf: please read this (http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/)
And please read it all the way through. And then go to your local library and check out some books. The bigger the library the better. (usually)

Signing papers won't make all the pollution go poof.

My advice: take off the tin foil hat, put away the protest sign, turn off your computer, take a step back, and read some books. Not the doom prophet (/profit) books. You're just crying wolf. Keep it up and nobody will believe you when (/if, and it's a big if) you stumble across a real disaster in the making. You really need to read some books. Not magazines. Books.

And don't double post. It makes you look retarded.

[Edit]
As for the floating ice melting will flood the world argument: stick an ice cbue in an empty glass. fill the glass to the rim with water. Wait for the ice to melt. Does the glass overflow? The answer is no. Don't believe me? Just try it.

This is a good example of what happens when an ecosystem is thrown off balance. Also, blasting our limited resources into space probably isn't helping.

All species eventually go extinct, why should we be any different

How dare you suggest we stop trying to explore space and learn about the universe! There are better ways of going about it, like NPR's (nuclear pulse rocket), but that just needs to be revived with a new design. Who knows. Maybe a private company will revive the idea to cut ticket prices.

NPR's could cut a crafts mass ratio from 4 down to 1.

Brazil loses a football field sized chunk of Forest every 1 second that is why they are so good!

The trend over the past 100 years is 1.5-3 mm/yr. The Future predictions go from 110-880mm by 2100 and if you put that in cm it comes to 11-88 cm. Still under a meter at the most and the 880mm is the uppermost limit possible. The real rise would probably fall within the 20-40 cm range. This comes from Wikipedia and they've got the references to back it up.

Wikipedia's information can be suspect at times.

The Antarctic is actually getting colder. I know this conflicts with what you've been told but over 90% of the continent has been recorded getting colder since we started keeping records there. The majority of the South Pole isn't following the warming trend.

For the GHG cry wolf: please read this (http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/)
And please read it all the way through. And then go to your local library and check out some books. The bigger the library the better. (usually)

Point taken. Although the article does admit that humans in fact do contribute at least a measurable amount upon the warming of the Earth, like irrigation projects, "Heat Island Effect", and such.

Signing papers won't make all the pollution go poof.

I did not mean it like that.

Forcing companies to adopt stricter emission standards, or force them to mandatory install scrubbers on all smokestacks instead of "Oh, we'll do it later, maybe next week, but in actuality we won't do it for 10 years because of profit and such. Heh heh."

If the companies know that being lax with emissions will bring the law on them fast and hard, with huge fines numbering in the multi-millions of dollars as opposed to paltry multi-thousand dollar fines, the companies will start installing scrubbers quickly instead of procranisating.

And for this to work, these laws need to be written up, ratified, and implemented. Not only that, but the politicans need to pass legislation that will research eco-technologies more intensively and aggressively instead of "laying back, waiting for the disaster to occur before doing anything".

My advice: take off the tin foil hat, put away the protest sign, turn off your computer, take a step back, and read some books. Not the doom prophet (/profit) books. You're just crying wolf. Keep it up and nobody will believe you when (/if, and it's a big if) you stumble across a real disaster in the making. You really need to read some books. Not magazines. Books.

And don't double post. It makes you look retarded.

No need for name calling here.

[Edit]
As for the floating ice melting will flood the world argument: stick an ice cbue in an empty glass. fill the glass to the rim with water. Wait for the ice to melt. Does the glass overflow? The answer is no. Don't believe me? Just try it.

Ah- there's a problem with this.

With glaciers and ice floating on the water, then this example works. However, with glaciers and such on land, like Greenland and Antarctica, it would be the opposite.

Fill the glass with water FIRST (represents the oceans).

Then drop the ice cube in the glass SECOND (represents ice falling off the ice sheets in Greenland and Antartica)

The water will spill over from displacement by the ice cube representing the land based ice sheets.

The human race could indeed come to an end, after all no other hominid-race appears not to have.

Certainly the notion that we are heading into or are already at the end-times of a particular civilisation-cycle/epoch is hardly far-fetched in the least. After all so far not a single human civilisation of any significance has not come to an end. It's somewhat naive to think this one would be different in that regard just because this is the one that one happens to be a part of.

Other hominids have come and gone, other civilisation-cycle/epochs have come and gone and it really is rather a mundane suggestion to posit that either kind of 'going' lies in our future, it is, rather, suggestions to the contrary that are sensationalist and far-fetched.

In my opinion we are certainly living in the end time of an epoch and that end time will be followed immediately either by a novel civilisation epoch, a hiatus between such epochs (this and the next), or no further rise of any significant human civilisation - it may be that the human species itself is in the end-time of its existence, and there is nothing startling nor out-of-the-ordinary about such a possibility. Rather it seems an inevitability (that there will be an end to the human race) with the only questions being of the 'whens' and 'hows' rather than any 'ifs'.

All these naive insistences that amount to nothing more than the sentiment 'it wont happen to me', make as much sense as not installing fire-alarms and refusing to lock one's door because fires and burglarys only happen to other people - except in this case it's 'extinction only happens to other species' and 'epoch-endings only happen to people who dont share my epoch'....

There are too many humans, you betcha.
America is a problem.
The awnser?
Global War with America.

yes anything can happen say like the Second Coming of Christ that could most definatly end the world at anytime!

At the very worst, we'll experience a Malthusian Check within this century. For those that dont know what a Malthusian Check is....

Population tends to increase faster than food supply, with inevitably disastrous results, unless the increase in population is checked by moral restraints or by war, famine, and disease. When resources are used up, population growth and populations themselves with fall until such a time the resources are enough to sustain growth again.

I'm watching "Countdown to Doomsday" on the Sci-Fi channel, and it's pretty convincing in explaining that humanity is pretty much screwed.

1. In the last 50 years, we've lost 20% of topsoil, 20% of our agricultural land, and similiar losses in the ecosystem. Within 50 years, the rainforests in South America and Africa will be reduced to 5% of what they are today.

2. Global warming. There's huge amounts of methane in the Earth's oceans, and once the oceans reach a certain tempature thereshold within the next 10 years, the methane bubbles to the surface and magnifies the Greenhouse Effect a hundred-fold. Earth will become like Venus.

3. Biological viruses like Smallpox and Avian Flu and SARS can pretty much kill 1/2 of the world's population MINIMUM should a pandemic break out.

4. The USA's refusal to sign the Kyoto Accord because of stupid "Oh, but it will ruin the USA's economy" pretty much has doomed Earth. The US consumes 1/4 of the world's resources, and is the leading polluter on Earth. Various nations that has signed the Kyoto Accord like Japan hasn't taken "significant economic hit".

5. A full 2/3 of ALL life on Earth will be extinct within the end of this century because of humans destroying and polluting ecosystems.

There's plenty more doomsday scenarios (mostly natural phenomna) but these 5 bother me the most, and are probably the worst of them all, considering it's entirely man-made or mankind are responible for them.

Makes me really think that if 90% of the human race were to die out, then it would save Earth from destruction. If 90% of humans die from Smallpox, Avian Flu, SARS, or nuclear war or whatever, then Earh itself will be saved for future intelligent life to evolve in (and possibly far more logical and wise than humans- like Star Trek's Vulcans). Because there'll be 90% less pollution, ecological damage, global warming, and pretty much a huge cut in man-caused destruction on Earth. Simply put, there's TOO MANY HUMANS on Earth.

God, I'm so depressed after watching "Countdown to Disaster". What's the point of living if the Earth and humankind will die out in our lifetimes (by 2020 to 2050)? Stupid-ass Politics has doomed the human race to extinction and turn Earth into a dead barren planet.

Well, I'm so glad that you're incredibly well informed. It makes me feel good that you condemn the US refusal to sign the Kyoto accord--which would not necessarily ruin the US economy, but it would place "stupid" policies into place, such that China, the world's second largest producer of greenhouse gases, would receive no penalty whatever because of the rate at which they are growing economically. Seriously, take some initiative and do a little research before making yourself out to be a complete ignoramus. And your source of information for the demise of humanity is the sci-fi channel? Man they have some good stuff (used to watch SG-1 all the time :) ) but seriously, I don't think even the authors actually believe in the possibility of what they write (produce).

Well, the thing is I want humankind to overcome these things and become a galactic power.

We already are. We're the only galactic life forms...hell, we're the only ones in the universe ;)

I'm watching "Countdown to Doomsday" on the Sci-Fi channel, and it's pretty convincing in explaining that humanity is pretty much screwed.


You do know that sci-fi stands for Science Fiction, right? FICTION!!! Unless it's Discovery Channel, I don't trust it. A&E is unreliable, sci-fi, fictional, history, only the past, maybe the weather channel, but never sci fi...

I'm watching "Countdown to Doomsday" on the Sci-Fi channel, and it's pretty convincing in explaining that humanity is pretty much screwed.

1. In the last 50 years, we've lost 20% of topsoil, 20% of our agricultural land, and similiar losses in the ecosystem. Within 50 years, the rainforests in South America and Africa will be reduced to 5% of what they are today.

2. Global warming. There's huge amounts of methane in the Earth's oceans, and once the oceans reach a certain tempature thereshold within the next 10 years, the methane bubbles to the surface and magnifies the Greenhouse Effect a hundred-fold. Earth will become like Venus.

3. Biological viruses like Smallpox and Avian Flu and SARS can pretty much kill 1/2 of the world's population MINIMUM should a pandemic break out.

4. The USA's refusal to sign the Kyoto Accord because of stupid "Oh, but it will ruin the USA's economy" pretty much has doomed Earth. The US consumes 1/4 of the world's resources, and is the leading polluter on Earth. Various nations that has signed the Kyoto Accord like Japan hasn't taken "significant economic hit".

5. A full 2/3 of ALL life on Earth will be extinct within the end of this century because of humans destroying and polluting ecosystems.

There's plenty more doomsday scenarios (mostly natural phenomna) but these 5 bother me the most, and are probably the worst of them all, considering it's entirely man-made or mankind are responible for them.

Makes me really think that if 90% of the human race were to die out, then it would save Earth from destruction. If 90% of humans die from Smallpox, Avian Flu, SARS, or nuclear war or whatever, then Earh itself will be saved for future intelligent life to evolve in (and possibly far more logical and wise than humans- like Star Trek's Vulcans). Because there'll be 90% less pollution, ecological damage, global warming, and pretty much a huge cut in man-caused destruction on Earth. Simply put, there's TOO MANY HUMANS on Earth.

God, I'm so depressed after watching "Countdown to Disaster". What's the point of living if the Earth and humankind will die out in our lifetimes (by 2020 to 2050)? Stupid-ass Politics has doomed the human race to extinction and turn Earth into a dead barren planet.


hehe yeah coz TV never lies never.

You do realize that ever since Ogg learned to walk upright and developed a system of language, humans have been telling each other that they're doomed, right?

Ah well, if we're finished I might as well not get up and go to work, hell why bother getting up at all?
Why bother logging on to a website called NationStates either?

If you're so convinced, why are you here? :headbang:

China is a bigger polluter than the US today by total and closing fast on per capita and would have gotten a free pass on the Kyoto treaty. Get China to cut back and we'll do the same.
What kind of bullshit is that?

Is anyone else struck by the irony of the bolded phrase? :p

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/irony :headbang:

I'm watching "Countdown to Doomsday" on the Sci-Fi channel, and it's pretty convincing in explaining that humanity is pretty much screwed.

1. In the last 50 years, we've lost 20% of topsoil, 20% of our agricultural land, and similiar losses in the ecosystem. Within 50 years, the rainforests in South America and Africa will be reduced to 5% of what they are today.

2. Global warming. There's huge amounts of methane in the Earth's oceans, and once the oceans reach a certain tempature thereshold within the next 10 years, the methane bubbles to the surface and magnifies the Greenhouse Effect a hundred-fold. Earth will become like Venus.

3. Biological viruses like Smallpox and Avian Flu and SARS can pretty much kill 1/2 of the world's population MINIMUM should a pandemic break out.

4. The USA's refusal to sign the Kyoto Accord because of stupid "Oh, but it will ruin the USA's economy" pretty much has doomed Earth. The US consumes 1/4 of the world's resources, and is the leading polluter on Earth. Various nations that has signed the Kyoto Accord like Japan hasn't taken "significant economic hit".

5. A full 2/3 of ALL life on Earth will be extinct within the end of this century because of humans destroying and polluting ecosystems.

There's plenty more doomsday scenarios (mostly natural phenomna) but these 5 bother me the most, and are probably the worst of them all, considering it's entirely man-made or mankind are responible for them.

Makes me really think that if 90% of the human race were to die out, then it would save Earth from destruction. If 90% of humans die from Smallpox, Avian Flu, SARS, or nuclear war or whatever, then Earh itself will be saved for future intelligent life to evolve in (and possibly far more logical and wise than humans- like Star Trek's Vulcans). Because there'll be 90% less pollution, ecological damage, global warming, and pretty much a huge cut in man-caused destruction on Earth. Simply put, there's TOO MANY HUMANS on Earth.

God, I'm so depressed after watching "Countdown to Disaster". What's the point of living if the Earth and humankind will die out in our lifetimes (by 2020 to 2050)? Stupid-ass Politics has doomed the human race to extinction and turn Earth into a dead barren planet.

Global warming may cause some climate change. Yes, it may be catastrophic. Yes, millions of people may die. It won't be the end of the human race by a long shot. Plenty of people don't live near the sea who won't be affected by rising sea levels. Climate change and more natural disasters will mess up things for a decade or so and then we'll all get used to it. The biological viruses thing?... what happened to SARS and Avian flu? Even if there is a huge pandemic and half the world's population is wiped out, it will mostly be people from underdeveloped countries whose governments haven't stockpiled antibiotics. Sorry to sound callous, but it's the developed countries which make up human civilisation. Anyway, the spanish flu only killed 50-100m people, which was about 2.5%-5%. If bird flu is the next flu pandemic... hardly half the world's population.

3. Biological viruses like Smallpox and Avian Flu and SARS can pretty much kill 1/2 of the world's population MINIMUM should a pandemic break out.


Pandemics?
My god, I've never heard of anything like that happening in history!

I havent posted for a while; this seems like a good place.

imagine, if you will, Chigago o hara airport. I dont think its the busiest on the earth, but its certainly VERY busy. How many planes land there in a day? Hundreds? A thousand? How many of those planes crash in any given day? Zero. how many in a month? Also zero. 500 a day(i bet thats a small number) is 15000 a month. So the chance of a plane crash is less than 1/15000.. pretty damned small chance.

Now, how many crash a year? Such a famous airport, any crashes in a year would be major news, at least here in north american. so lets say 1 crash per 5 years, and thats pretty generous. I doubt its one every ten years. Thats 1/180 000, or one crash ever 180 000 days. And those are modest numbers.

The point being, technology like nukes are safeguarded even better. It would take a astronomical series of events to cause an accidental nuclear world wide war.

Maybe some tinpot will get a nuke, and slag some other country, but its not going to happen to everyone, at least not at the push of the wrong button, or a mispoken word.

The point being, technology like nukes are safeguarded even better. It would take a astronomical series of events to cause an accidental nuclear world wide war.



I'm not so sure. Mainly because it's not really about 'odds'. It's more about personalities, game theories, geopolitics and whatnot. For spine-tingling entertainment of a nuclear bent, I refer you here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov).

But having said that, I'm more worried about how to pay the rent than thermonuclear war, drowning in my second-floor London flat, grey goo and even the Mayan Long Count coming to an end.

Pip pip!!

Global Warming?! Hell, I live in Australia and we're having to clean the frost off of the car in the mornings. And it's still Autumn!

People often make the mistake that environmentalists want to save the planet, and to be fair, they could be forgiven that opinion given that the environmentalists often chant 'save the planet!' and the like.

But the fact is that if all human beings could live independently of their habitat then no-one would give a shit about the planet, hearing 'save the planet' would be as rare as hearing 'save the small comet trailing through the rear end of the aldebaran system', people wouldn't care.

What environmentalists are really trying to save is the millions of PEOPLE who are set to die with even the most modest advancements in climate change. The gas-guzzlers of the world may rationalise to themselves that they are not going to 'destroy the world', but I'd like to see them rationalise that they are not going to kill many many people.

http://www.exitmundi.nl/

Yeah, we're doomed, it's just a matter of time. Visit the above site for more info. Very informative :p

While there are a number of serious enviromental problems that need to be taken seriously, disaster reports are usually not a reliable source of alarm.
Reports on, for example, how much topsoil has dissapeared during the last 50 years or so I can accept, because it can be measured (with a +/- tolerance on the accuracy). However, when it goes on to say "and this means that by 2050 we won't have any topsoil left" I usually discard it as humbug.

The things is that a prediction like that is very likely to be inaccurate, and furthermore, look at how it is worded.
If it offers an increasing +/- innacuracy tolerance on the prediction the further into the future it goes, and uses words like "this is how it might look in 50 years" then I'm willling to listen because it has some basis in genuine science. Usually.

If it has a low +/- innacuracy tolerance and uses words like "This is how it [b]will[/i] be in 50 years" it's propaganda.

Making statements of how things will be in the future is a classic tool in propaganda, and if such rethoric is used the source should be questioned.
It might still have something genuine, but it should be scrutined very carefully.



As for the world coming to and end and humanity being doomed, that has already happened. Several times.
However, humans are so bloodymineded in their pursuit of going on living that they disarmed War as often as they heeded his call; forcedfed Plauge pencilin and antibiotics and stuffed Famine with junkfood until he died of cholesterol poisoning (at least in the west).
They still haven't beat DEATH, but while they still die, most of humanity does so while giving Boney the finger.

Also, there are the remote rural areas on earth that the news of the world's end didn't reach at all, so they went on living thier lives pretty much as they always had.
Every 50 years or so, a uniformed chap comes and says "This is the God/President/Generalissimo you have to pay your respects to now or you will be shot!"
The people smile nod and wait until he leaves, then goes on with important stuff, like growing crops so they have something to eat.

Ah well, if we're finished I might as well not get up and go to work, hell why bother getting up at all?
Why bother logging on to a website called NationStates either?

If you're so convinced, why are you here? :headbang:
Nothing better to do in the meanwhile. Maaan! The wait is the worst part.

Go watch Al Gore's movie and feel guilty. Or feel good about yourself for going to see a distaster movie and blame it all on the right. Because everything bad in the world is the fault of the right. Republicans are evil. So is big business. And a free market economy. And a high standard/quality of life. And people just cause problems for the rest of the world so we should all just kill ourselves.

Spare us the doom speak and lead by example.