NationStates Jolt Archive

For almost a decade now, anti-smoking people have gotten cigarette ad's off television. Because it is nothing but a companies advertisment. More teenagers drink than smoke tobacco, and many teens kill themselves from a result of alcohol and drugs. Have I ever heard about a child die from smoking a cigarette? No I have not. "Have these people ever tried taking out alcohol commercials out from television?", you might ask. No, the answer is most definitley no.

The proof of second hand smoke doesn't exist. People can get lung cancer from just breathing in bad air.

Smokers should have a right to smoke in restraunts and such. Just as much as drinkers should have a right to drink alcohol in restraunts. Sure the smoke might disturb some people. That's why it is sensible not to have it in theaters, college classes, and such. The same with alcohol. Now my honest opinion, would I rather sit my a drinker or a smoker. I'd rather sit next to a smoker, because I don't like the smell of alcohol, and I don't like to look at a drunk person.

"Is there a healthy cigarette?" Yes there is infact, non-filters. It is much safer to smoke a non-filtered cigarette because there is fiber glass inside the filters. Also lights, the lights cigarette not only has less tar and nicotine, but also of the much not needed chemicals that are used to enhance the nicotine affect. " Is there any tobacco that doesn't use these type of chemicals?", is a question you might ask. Yes, indeed there is. Russia is the biggest tobacco exporter in Europe, and they do not put barely any chemicals in their tobacco. Which gives tobacco smokers a very natural taste.

A history of tobacco, Tobacco has been the biggest exporter throughout the world and still is today. If it weren't for tobacco, many of our black friends wouldn't have been here today. Many people say "tobacco has corrupted our youth", one company has a cartoon of a camel, who smokes while playing pool and such. Is that influencing children? Not really, infact most children know not to smoke. But isn't that what an advertisement is all about? Influencing people to buy their product? Yes it is. Later on the years the surgeon general posted his warnings on the side of every cigarette pack. And that is perfectly reasonable which the tobacco industries have agreed. And people now know the problems cigarette smoking can cause. And people still choose to smoke. And that's what being an American is all about. However, what isn't American is trying to destroy a companies advertisement, and to try and shut down all tobacco companies. Just so the mighty fine anti-tobacco organization can make smokers stop smoking, just cause the smoke bugs them, is pretty fascist to me.

So now you know the truths about smoking.

Unfortunately, you don't seem to know where to post this sort of thing - this is not the place for it. Try the General forum - we roleplay here.

Moved.

Smokers should have a right to smoke in restraunts and such. Just as much as drinkers should have a right to drink alcohol in restraunts. Sure the smoke might disturb some people. That's why it is sensible not to have it in theaters, college classes, and such.

Why ban it in a theater but not a restaurant? What's the difference?

Did you lose your job at Phillip Morris? Go ahead and keep telling yourself those cigs are harmless. We will say nice things at your funeral.

didn't we just spend like six pages "discussing" this yesterday??? listen, you won't convince the anti-smokers and you won't convince the smokers-- its a moot point and a lost cause

The proof of second hand smoke doesn't exist. People can get lung cancer from just breathing in bad air.

nevermind.......

*too lazy to go look for the dead thread*

The proof of second hand smoke doesn't exist. People can get lung cancer from just breathing in bad air.



Wooooohooooo!!!
Lawsuits here I come!

*sucks in air*

I have heard quite alot about the hoax of second hand smoke.
I'm starting to believe them.
Cars pump out exhaust fumes constantly, which can kill a person very quickly in an enclosed area -
So why is lung cancer attributed soley to cigarettes?

Your last words? "I'm statistically insignifigant"

I have heard quite alot about the hoax of second hand smoke.
I'm starting to believe them.
Cars pump out exhaust fumes constantly, which can kill a person very quickly in an enclosed area -
So why is lung cancer attributed soley to cigarettes?

Probably because many of the people affected by it are waitresses in restaurants and bars in which smoking is allowed. Seeing as they are surrounded by smokers all day and not cars running in enclosed spaces, it makes sense to attribute second-hand smoke to the smokers and not the enclosed cars.

Probably because many of the people affected by it are waitresses in restaurants and bars in which smoking is allowed. Seeing as they are surrounded by smokers all day and not cars running in enclosed spaces, it makes sense to attribute second-hand smoke to the smokers and not the enclosed cars.

Yeah but I'm saying pollution is pumped into the air from alot more than just automobiles. Look at the haze of pollution that clogs major cities, do you not think that perhaps that is going to injure people's lungs alot more than a tiny cigarette?

Yeah but I'm saying pollution is pumped into the air from alot more than just automobiles. Look at the haze of pollution that clogs major cities, do you not think that perhaps that is going to injure people's lungs alot more than a tiny cigarette?

Only really if the person is outside.

But one tiny cigarette. What if that particular restaurant has 100+ people a day smoking one tiny cigarette in there? 365 days a year? For 25 years? That one tiny cigarette turned into 912500+ tiny cigarettes.

Smokers do have a right to smoke (adults anyway, who are of sound mind). Absolutely. No question about it.

What they do NOT have the right to do is KILL OTHER PEOPLE. If I'm in a restaurant, and you start smoking, and I am forced to breathe it, you are killing me. Yes I could leave the restaurant, but why should I be forced to leave somewhere just because someone is being selfish (and a murderer - yep, like it or not, it's immoral killing), especially when I'm paying good money for my food? Why should I have to be inconvenienced just because you are selfish? People don't have the right to use condoms in restaurants - they have to do it elsewhere, because it's not a necessary thing such as breastfeeding or eating - it's just a helpful thing to do, just as sex is for some people. So why should smokers get special rights over everyone else, just because they want to die and don't give a shit about taking others down with them.

Prrof of second-hand smoke does exist. You're just to ignorant to look at the research. Get someone who doesn't smoke to be near you when you smoke, then after about a month, have their lungs x-rayed. There's your conclusive undenial-even-with-ignorance proof. Plus have your own lungs x-rayed if you're a smoker. Look at them compared to a healthy pair. Then think logically instead of stupidly - your cigarettes have filters on them, yet your lungs get like that. People who are forced to breathe it in second-hand don't have the benefit of those filters. As for other pollutants, yes, there are many, but there's not a lot that can be immediately done about that (for example, roads can't be suddenly ripped up and all cars destroyed). With smoking, there is.

Not heard of a child dead from smoking? Keep smoking near them, look at
independent media sources, and you will do.

Right to smoke: yes. Right to kill others with that smoke: no. If you think you should have the latter right, you should be locked up.

Only really if the person is outside.

But one tiny cigarette. What if that particular restaurant has 100+ people a day smoking one tiny cigarette in there? 365 days a year? For 25 years? That one tiny cigarette turned into 912500+ tiny cigarettes.

Sorry, I guess I forgot that oxygen only exists outdoors.
:rolleyes:

Yeah but I'm saying pollution is pumped into the air from alot more than just automobiles. Look at the haze of pollution that clogs major cities, do you not think that perhaps that is going to injure people's lungs alot more than a tiny cigarette?a tiny cigarette? I walked into rooms which had more haze than LA.

I've walked through the streets of LA and didn't notice a difference, I walked past a room that had smokers in it and my clothes stank with cigarette/cigar smoke.

the difference is, that the concentration of Pollutants is greater in a room full of smokers than in a city full of cars.

the air circulation is better outside than in a room.

there are more chemicals in cigarettes than in exhaust fumes of a car.

Sorry, I guess I forgot that oxygen only exists outdoors.
:rolleyes:

Well, happens to the best of us....except me of course.

Sorry, I guess I forgot that oxygen only exists outdoors.
:rolleyes:
WTF has oxygen got to do with this?

WTF has oxygen got to do with this?

Well, see because combustion will not occur of oxygen is present, smokers have to smoke indoors where there is a definet lack of the evil oxygen molecules.

Do ciggs cause lung cancer?

if your answer is no, then whats up with that SG warning?

if your answer is yes, I challenge you to prove that all the toxicity is absorbed during the smokes inhalation, and that there is no toxicity in smoke that is released from the ciggy but isn't inhaled as it sits there burning away in the ashtray.

I highly doubt that you can prove that.

When I spend a few hours in a bar, club or casino where the air is thick with smoke, my eyes are burning, my throat and lungs are irritated and sometimes I will find myself with a cold the next day as if my immune system couldnt handle all of the poison I was breathing in.

And as was pointed out earlier, air circulation is much better outside then inside so the car argument is shit. Plus cars are needed for transportation so denying public access would just be silly, although I am for coming out with less or non-polluting cars.

Speaking of cars and ciggys, whenever I see a smoker flick their cigg out the window I want to follow them home and dump a trashbag full of spent smokes back into their car. Dirty littering fucks.

I smoke-a lot-(bad wiccle me)but there is a fine line here.
second hand smoke does kill, smoking does increase your chance of lung cancer.smoking kills.
smoking around children can never be good, but in a pub there should be some freedom, for instance a smoking room with no bar -and no smoking by the bar (be kind to those poor bar staff)
but let me just say this, iot is socially unacceptable to smoke in public, yet it is acceptable to spew carbon monoxide into ther atmosphere thorough cars, in the western worls more people own cars than smoke(correct me4 if im wrong) and a car produces more carbon monoxide than a cigarette.

Speaking of cars and ciggys, whenever I see a smoker flick their cigg out the window I want to follow them home and dump a trashbag full of spent smokes back into their car. Dirty littering fucks.so you drive with a trashbag full of spent smokes just in case you come across a litterer?

*impressed* :D

Did you lose your job at Phillip Morris? Go ahead and keep telling yourself those cigs are harmless. We will say nice things at your funeral.
I'm not saying it's good for your health, I'm saying if people want to smoke let them. Maybe you don't know what nicotine does, it relieves stress, and can also be used as a laxative. You know you're going to die too someday, it's not like you're immortal. Everyone's going to die someday, and to tell you the truth I hope smoking knocks off some life years off of me. I don't want to be 80.

so you drive with a trashbag full of spent smokes just in case you come across a litterer?

*impressed* :D


hehe... no I said that's what I'd like to do. Usually I just honk at them or flash my lights and point at them like the evil monkey living in Chris Griffins closet.

I'm not saying it's good for your health, I'm saying if people want to smoke let them. Maybe you don't know what nicotine does, it relieves stress, and can also be used as a laxative. You know you're going to die too someday, it's not like you're immortal. Everyone's going to die someday, and to tell you the truth I hope smoking knocks off some life years off of me. I don't want to be 80.

Buy a gun then, gives you a little more choice as to when, where and how many people you want to take with you.

I smoke-a lot-(bad wiccle me)but there is a fine line here.
second hand smoke does kill, smoking does increase your chance of lung cancer.smoking kills.
smoking around children can never be good, but in a pub there should be some freedom, for instance a smoking room with no bar -and no smoking by the bar (be kind to those poor bar staff)
but let me just say this, iot is socially unacceptable to smoke in public, yet it is acceptable to spew carbon monoxide into ther atmosphere thorough cars, in the western worls more people own cars than smoke(correct me4 if im wrong) and a car produces more carbon monoxide than a cigarette.

agreed - which is why I am glad we are working on cutting down polllution caused by automobiles.

I also think that businesses should be allowed to have indoor smoking areas but should have to have extreemely good exhaust for it. The japanese have an awesome system for this.

You people really need to watch Penn and Teller.

I'm not saying it's good for your health, I'm saying if people want to smoke let them. Maybe you don't know what nicotine does, it relieves stress, and can also be used as a laxative. You know you're going to die too someday, it's not like you're immortal. Everyone's going to die someday, and to tell you the truth I hope smoking knocks off some life years off of me. I don't want to be 80.


and you have every right to ruin your own health. I'm an advocate of legalized suicide. although you arent just shortening yoru lifespan... you are making sure that the quality of the last years of your life is goign to be drastically reduced.

You people really need to watch Penn and Teller.

because whatever they say is absolute fact?

Do ciggs cause lung cancer?

if your answer is no, then whats up with that SG warning?

if your answer is yes, I challenge you to prove that all the toxicity is absorbed during the smokes inhalation, and that there is no toxicity in smoke that is released from the ciggy but isn't inhaled as it sits there burning away in the ashtray.

I highly doubt that you can prove that.

When I spend a few hours in a bar, club or casino where the air is thick with smoke, my eyes are burning, my throat and lungs are irritated and sometimes I will find myself with a cold the next day as if my immune system couldnt handle all of the poison I was breathing in.

And as was pointed out earlier, air circulation is much better outside then inside so the car argument is shit. Plus cars are needed for transportation so denying public access would just be silly, although I am for coming out with less or non-polluting cars.

Speaking of cars and ciggys, whenever I see a smoker flick their cigg out the window I want to follow them home and dump a trashbag full of spent smokes back into their car. Dirty littering fucks.

In my post, I never said tobacco doesn't cause lung cancer. I know it does along with other effects. You think smokers don't know what the causes are? They know more about smoking than non-smokers do. And you wanna know why they don't care, because smoking isn't all that bad. What they do know, is what's on the surgeon generals warning.

And a cigarette doesn't cause any pollution, in fact it causes more pollution in your body than when released out into the atmosphere. I'm not saying cigarettes are good for you nor bad for you. I'm just saying let the smokers have their damn cigarette. Not everyone has such a fucking nice LA life like most of you. And sometimes a cigarette is an enjoyable part of their lives. And another thing, litter bugs aren't just smokers you prejudice fuck.

agreed - which is why I am glad we are working on cutting down polllution caused by automobiles.

I also think that businesses should be allowed to have indoor smoking areas but should have to have extreemely good exhaust for it. The japanese have an awesome system for this.

Its just about freedom of choice-freedom to smoke AND freedom to be kept away from ciggy fumes.

I smoke-a lot-(bad wiccle me)but there is a fine line here.
second hand smoke does kill, smoking does increase your chance of lung cancer.smoking kills.
smoking around children can never be good, but in a pub there should be some freedom, for instance a smoking room with no bar -and no smoking by the bar (be kind to those poor bar staff)
but let me just say this, iot is socially unacceptable to smoke in public, yet it is acceptable to spew carbon monoxide into ther atmosphere thorough cars, in the western worls more people own cars than smoke(correct me4 if im wrong) and a car produces more carbon monoxide than a cigarette.

For the most part I agree as well. However, cars are pretty much required for today's society, that is an undeniable statement. Cigarettes on the other hand are not. Maybe if a low emissions-fuelcell cigarette was developed, I'd be okay with smoking, but until then....

For the most part I agree as well. However, cars are pretty much required for today's society, that is an undeniable statement. Cigarettes on the other hand are not. Maybe if a low emissions-fuelcell cigarette was developed, I'd be okay with smoking, but until then....

no doubt cars are useful, but there are ways of fueling them that doesnt require oil(god damm oil)and many journeys are made unnecessarily by car.

im so off subject sorry.
going for a fag break(tee hee)

and you have every right to ruin your own health. I'm an advocate of legalized suicide. although you arent just shortening yoru lifespan... you are making sure that the quality of the last years of your life is goign to be drastically reduced.

Wow thanks for telling me, you think I never knew that? and the quality of my lasting years of my life is going to be in pain, what life isn't? A healthy life is a long life, and a long life is a painful life. Once im dead and gone you're all going to be senile, taking 10 pills a day. And you'll be watching game shoes til you're waiting to die. Go to an old folks home, and see what good health brings.

And you know, eating mcdonalds everyday, is alot more unhealthy for you than smoking a cigarette can do to your health. Take the biggest anti-smoker in the world Rob Reiner, he cares about everyones health but his own.

If you don't smoke, you can't understand. If second hand smoke could kill, and you're always around a smoker, your lifespan would be cut about a week. You think smoking is such a big deal, not true. It's not a big deal. I thought smoking and non-smoking sections were fine. You see I wan't equality, is that too much to ask?

In my post, I never said tobacco doesn't cause lung cancer. I know it does along with other effects. You think smokers don't know what the causes are? They know more about smoking than non-smokers do. And you wanna know why they don't care, because smoking isn't all that bad. What they do know, is what's on the surgeon generals warning.

And a cigarette doesn't cause any pollution, in fact it causes more pollution in your body than when released out into the atmosphere. I'm not saying cigarettes are good for you nor bad for you. I'm just saying let the smokers have their damn cigarette. Not everyone has such a fucking nice LA life like most of you. And sometimes a cigarette is an enjoyable part of their lives. And another thing, litter bugs aren't just smokers you prejudice fuck.

You said second hand smoke is harmless didnt you? It's been along day I could be wrong.

I never said you couldn't smoke did I? smoke all you want... please. Smoke 4 packs a day for all I care.

I never said cigg smokers are the only litter bugs did I?

I don't see where I was complaining about ciggs causing pollution. I was talkign about people that say "oh but car exhaust is bad for you too... why dont we ban cars? blah blah blah wah wah wah" (btw, "blah blah blah wah wah wah" never makes you friends :p )

I was also a smoker for almost a decade btw

LOL @ LA lifestyle.

im so off subject sorry.
going for a fag break(tee hee)
Damn right, you enjoy that cigarette. A cigarette is enjoyable, just like a beer. And people wanna talk how cigarettes are bad for you, but nobody talks about how alcohol is bad for you. Because everyone just LLOOOOVES alcohol.

Its just about freedom of choice-freedom to smoke AND freedom to be kept away from ciggy fumes.

and we should find a way to make both of these a reality.

because whatever they say is absolute fact?
They back up everything they say, while demolishing the argument of those they disagree with.

Wow thanks for telling me, you think I never knew that? and the quality of my lasting years of my life is going to be in pain, what life isn't? A healthy life is a long life, and a long life is a painful life. Once im dead and gone you're all going to be senile, taking 10 pills a day. And you'll be watching game shoes til you're waiting to die. Go to an old folks home, and see what good health brings.

And you know, eating mcdonalds everyday, is alot more unhealthy for you than smoking a cigarette can do to your health. Take the biggest anti-smoker in the world Rob Reiner, he cares about everyones health but his own.

If you don't smoke, you can't understand. If second hand smoke could kill, and you're always around a smoker, your lifespan would be cut about a week. You think smoking is such a big deal, not true. It's not a big deal. I thought smoking and non-smoking sections were fine. You see I wan't equality, is that too much to ask?nice strawman witht he McDonalds argument... unfortunatly, people can quit Mcdonalds alot easier than quitting smoking.

and Smoking/nonsmoking sections are not enough. one must guarentee that cigarette smoke does not affect the non-smokers. including the waithelp and bartenders.

and we should find a way to make both of these a reality.
Different Rooms. completely sealed with seperate entrances.

and the wait help/bartenders also need the right to say they don't want to work with smokers.

Wow thanks for telling me, you think I never knew that? and the quality of my lasting years of my life is going to be in pain, what life isn't? A healthy life is a long life, and a long life is a painful life. Once im dead and gone you're all going to be senile, taking 10 pills a day. And you'll be watching game shoes til you're waiting to die. Go to an old folks home, and see what good health brings.

And you know, eating mcdonalds everyday, is alot more unhealthy for you than smoking a cigarette can do to your health. Take the biggest anti-smoker in the world Rob Reiner, he cares about everyones health but his own.

If you don't smoke, you can't understand. If second hand smoke could kill, and you're always around a smoker, your lifespan would be cut about a week. You think smoking is such a big deal, not true. It's not a big deal. I thought smoking and non-smoking sections were fine. You see I wan't equality, is that too much to ask?


you are all acting like... yeah Im lucky cuz I smoke so I wont have to live out those last few painful years as if you didnt know that the the smokign you are doing is goign to cause those years you are alive to be of a lower quality. Thought I would point that out to you as you went on yoru rant is all. Go ahead and keep up with the whining then. Good luck with those lungs too. I truely hope you dont get cancer and leave yrou family with a 50K hospital bill.

You said second hand smoke is harmless didnt you? It's been along day I could be wrong.

I never said you couldn't smoke did I? smoke all you want... please. Smoke 4 packs a day for all I care.

I never said cigg smokers are the only litter bugs did I?

I don't see where I was complaining about ciggs causing pollution. I was talkign about people that say "oh but car exhaust is bad for you too... why dont we ban cars? blah blah blah wah wah wah" (btw, "blah blah blah wah wah wah" never makes you friends :p )

I was also a smoker for almost a decade btw

LOL @ LA lifestyle.

Then stop bitching :D

They back up everything they say, while demolishing the argument of those they disagree with.

The problem is they are a lot like whats his face that did farehheit 911 - they use idiots to support the opposing opinion to make the people on their side look like geniuses. The way they twist "facts" is not admirable at all. I agree with them much of the time and even at those times I find their editing and experts leaves a lot to be desired when looking for a quality opposing view.

They arent a good source for quality information is what I am tryign to say. Sure sometimes they make good points but tis much better to make the points yrouself using valid sources or just good arguments. Saying "Watch Penn and Teller" wont do much for the argument.

To me, I think the whole smoking in restraunts thing should be left up to the owners and not the people. It's their fucking restraunt, they should be allowed to do whatever they want with it, not having the government come in and tell them they can't.

Smoking does bug me in theaters because people hate smoke going up along the screen, and it makes me have to look at the smoke. Same with in a classroom, people don't want to smell smoke when im trying to study, however smoke it more pleasant than a fart. And i'd rather be by a smoker than a farter. But you see when people are eating, if they dont want to smell smoke, OH SHIT, they can go to the non smoking section. What the fuck is so wrong with that. This is my whole fucking point, is giving smokers some freedom.

Second hand smoke is harmless, it has an affect yes, but not much of one to be able to call it harmful.

You have a vice that happens to produce a byproduct, smoke. You seem to feel that you have the right for the smoke from your cigarettes to pollute my environment, get into my clothes and hair, and ensure that when I leave an establishment such as a restaurant that I stink like cigarette smoke.

See, the thing is I have a vice to. I have been known to drink every now and then. My vice also has a byproduct, urine. Yet, you don't see me insisting that I have the right to pollute your environment, piss all over you so that it gets in your clothes and hair, and ensure that when you leave a restaurant you smell like my piss.

I'll tell you what, as soon as you start to fight for my right to urinate on you, I'll fight for your right to smoke around me.

Different Rooms. completely sealed with seperate entrances.

and the wait help/bartenders also need the right to say they don't want to work with smokers.

or only smoking at well ventilated tables like the japanese ones that I cant find online information to. :(

You see I wan't equality, is that too much to ask?

No, you have the same rights as other people. Nobody is forcing you to smoke. Sure, I've been told that it isn't easy to quit, and I believe it. But once again, nobody ever forced you to smoke.

Well, no. Let's say someone was holding a gun to your head and forcing you to smoke a pack a day. But then that's not an equality issue anyway...

You have a vice that happens to produce a byproduct, smoke. You seem to feel that you have the right for the smoke from your cigarettes to pollute my environment, get into my clothes and hair, and ensure that when I leave an establishment such as a restaurant that I stink like cigarette smoke.

See, the thing is I have a vice to. I have been known to drink every now and then. My vice also has a byproduct, urine. Yet, you don't see me insisting that I have the right to pollute your environment, piss all over you so that it gets in your clothes and hair, and ensure that when you leave a restaurant you smell like my piss.

I'll tell you what, as soon as you start to fight for my right to urinate on you, I'll fight for your right to smoke around me.
For one thing it's not your environment, it's our environment, and if it gets in your clothes and hair then all you have to do is fucking leave the restraunt. You can go eat at another restraunt. Also, I have not once smelled smoke on me when I eat at a nonsmoking section, not once. So I don't know what you're bitchin about.

Tobacco does cause cancer. Chew users often get mouth cancer, so you can't say that bad air is causing lesions and whatnot. Smoking merely puts particulate matter into one's lungs, and if anything is present in the lungs which settles for an extended period of time, cancer cells will form under that substance.

However, I higly advocate smoking and the addition of chemicals to tobacco blends. Some may call me a complete bastard because of this, but hear me out: people are, by nature, creatures which cannot take care of themselves. Shortening our domain on Earth is for the best of us. Call it a humanitarian effort, if you will.

No, you have the same rights as other people. Nobody is forcing you to smoke. Sure, I've been told that it isn't easy to quit, and I believe it. But once again, nobody ever forced you to smoke.

Well, no. Let's say someone was holding a gun to your head and forcing you to smoke a pack a day. But then that's not an equality issue anyway...
I don't smoke inside a restraunt and I don't mind. But there are areas especially in coastal california, where they have areas, where you cannot smoke, and no im not talking about a gas station. Hell all of UCSB you can't smoke ANYWHERE on the school property. And smokers rights aren't being violated? Yes they are, people who pass such laws because they don't like picking up cigarette butts off the ground. What they need is a littering fine. They don't have to start excluding shit.:mad:

Everyone's going to die someday, and to tell you the truth I hope smoking knocks off some life years off of me. I don't want to be 80.

I don't even know where to start.
Here's an idea: go to your local hospital, and spend a few days at an oncologic station, talking to the lung-cancer guys.
Of course, the talk would have to be interrupted every few minutes, so the can get their breath back. Oh, and the grey colour their skin has is no make-up.

The problem is they are a lot like whats his face that did farehheit 911 - they use idiots to support the opposing opinion to make the people on their side look like geniuses. The way they twist "facts" is not admirable at all. I agree with them much of the time and even at those times I find their editing and experts leaves a lot to be desired when looking for a quality opposing view.
They don't unfairly edit and they get plenty of quality experts from the other side. It's just that those on the opposite side of reason are very likely to leave mush to be desired.
I mean, are you going to say that Noam Chomsky is an idiot? I would, but I doubt you would.

I'm not saying it's good for your health, I'm saying if people want to smoke let them. Maybe you don't know what nicotine does, it relieves stress, and can also be used as a laxative. You know you're going to die too someday, it's not like you're immortal. Everyone's going to die someday, and to tell you the truth I hope smoking knocks off some life years off of me. I don't want to be 80.

I may be going to die, but nobody else has the right to force me to die any quicker. Period. Full Stop. End of.

Tobacco does cause cancer. Chew users often get mouth cancer, so you can't say that bad air is causing lesions and whatnot. Smoking merely puts particulate matter into one's lungs, and if anything is present in the lungs which settles for an extended period of time, cancer cells will form under that substance.

However, I higly advocate smoking and the addition of chemicals to tobacco blends. Some may call me a complete bastard because of this, but hear me out: people are, by nature, creatures which cannot take care of themselves. Shortening our domain on Earth is for the best of us. Call it a humanitarian effort, if you will.

Tobacco causes cancer, I agree, but it doesn't kick in after 40 years of a pack a day.

And I don't give a shit about chewers, they don't cause any harm.

And guess what breathing causes things to go into your lungs. OMFG, like I said, you can get lung cancer without being around someone who smokes or you smoke if you smoke yourself. Being around people who smoke won't get you lung cancer, this I stand by. And if you have no proof of someone dying from second hand smoke, who DOESN'T live and work in a polluted area. Then don't say second hand smoke is harmful.

Wow thanks for telling me, you think I never knew that? and the quality of my lasting years of my life is going to be in pain, what life isn't? A healthy life is a long life, and a long life is a painful life. Once im dead and gone you're all going to be senile, taking 10 pills a day. And you'll be watching game shoes til you're waiting to die. Go to an old folks home, and see what good health brings.

And you know, eating mcdonalds everyday, is alot more unhealthy for you than smoking a cigarette can do to your health. Take the biggest anti-smoker in the world Rob Reiner, he cares about everyones health but his own.

If you don't smoke, you can't understand. If second hand smoke could kill, and you're always around a smoker, your lifespan would be cut about a week. You think smoking is such a big deal, not true. It's not a big deal. I thought smoking and non-smoking sections were fine. You see I wan't equality, is that too much to ask?

No smoking "sections" are bollocks. Smoke drifts you know.

I may be going to die, but nobody else has the right to force me to die any quicker. Period. Full Stop. End of.
Nobody is forcing you to be around smokers, you have the capability to not be around somebody who smokes. The only person who is forcing you to be around a smoker is yourself.

I don't smoke inside a restraunt and I don't mind. But there are areas especially in coastal california, where they have areas, where you cannot smoke, and no im not talking about a gas station. Hell all of UCSB you can't smoke ANYWHERE on the school property. And smokers rights aren't being violated? Yes they are, people who pass such laws because they don't like picking up cigarette butts off the ground. What they need is a littering fine. They don't have to start excluding shit.:mad:

Nobody is descriminating against you because of the color of your skin, gender, sexual preference, etc. People just don't want to have to inhale fumes from burning tobacco leaves wherever they go. Because if they wanted to do that, they could smoke.

For one thing it's not your environment, it's our environment, and if it gets in your clothes and hair then all you have to do is fucking leave the restraunt. You can go eat at another restraunt. Also, I have not once smelled smoke on me when I eat at a nonsmoking section, not once. So I don't know what you're bitchin about.

Why the fuck should I? It's not your fucking restaurant to decide who should go and who should stay, on the basis of your selfish desire to do something that you could easily do elsewhere without paying any extra to do it.

Nobody is forcing you to be around smokers, you have the capability to not be around somebody who smokes. The only person who is forcing you to be around a smoker is yourself.
If I am in the middle of doing something and a smoker comes in then they are violating my right to be in a healthy environment.

For one thing it's not your environment, it's our environment, and if it gets in your clothes and hair then all you have to do is fucking leave the restraunt. You can go eat at another restraunt. Also, I have not once smelled smoke on me when I eat at a nonsmoking section, not once. So I don't know what you're bitchin about.

Why the hell should I have to leave the restaurant for your conveniece? If you want to have a smoke with your meal you can eat at home. And every time I'm in a restaurant with a smoking section I can smell it on me when I leave. Like I said, you start to fight for my right to piss on you I'll fight for your right to smoke by me.

Owners should have the right to decide whether they allow smoking in their restaraunt or not.

I don't smoke inside a restraunt and I don't mind. But there are areas especially in coastal california, where they have areas, where you cannot smoke, and no im not talking about a gas station. Hell all of UCSB you can't smoke ANYWHERE on the school property. And smokers rights aren't being violated? Yes they are, people who pass such laws because they don't like picking up cigarette butts off the ground. What they need is a littering fine. They don't have to start excluding shit.:mad:

Rights being violated? What, you mean your supposed ignorant-minded "right" to kill people with rocket fule, paint stripper, and all the other crap in cigs? Get a life.

Owners should have the right to decide whether they allow smoking in their restaraunt or not.

That's like saying owners should have the right to decide whether they allow shootings in their restaurant or not.

No smoking "sections" are bollocks. Smoke drifts you know.
Not here in the states. All the smoking non smoking restraunts all are equipped with air conditioners and air purifiers. Not those little cheap air purifiers either. Now I live in Las Vegas, possibly the largest smoking city in the U.S. now in the casino's I smell smoke of course cause I can tell, but when I was a teen and I didn't smoke then, and I couldn't smell it and in Vegas you are around people who smoke. So I'm sorry it's not so well protected in the UK.

Damn right, you enjoy that cigarette. A cigarette is enjoyable, just like a beer. And people wanna talk how cigarettes are bad for you, but nobody talks about how alcohol is bad for you. Because everyone just LLOOOOVES alcohol.

I did.I also agree that alchohol is just as bad for you, cigarettes dont kill you liver like alchohol does, and you dont see many people on a cigaerette fuelled rampage like you do with an alchohol fuelled rampage.Dont think just because you cant see the sdamage like you can see the smoke that it doesnt happen.Fast food is nmjust as bad too, a kfc is full of trans fat bhat will kill you quicker(if youy eat it 2 times a week or more) than 10 fags a day.

you are all acting like... yeah Im lucky cuz I smoke so I wont have to live out those last few painful years as if you didnt know that the the smokign you are doing is goign to cause those years you are alive to be of a lower quality. Thought I would point that out to you as you went on yoru rant is all. Go ahead and keep up with the whining then. Good luck with those lungs too. I truely hope you dont get cancer and leave yrou family with a 50K hospital bill.

Ah I just love the NHS, no hospital bills for us cancerous smokers.

Rights being violated? What, you mean your supposed ignorant-minded "right" to kill people with rocket fule, paint stripper, and all the other crap in cigs? Get a life.
Well somebody believes in global warming. I believe the pollution goes out into and out of our atmosphere at a medium rate. Because well, when I see pollution it's going up, not down. And I think natural disasters are happening because it's an earthly cycle. Besides I buy tobacco that is natural, that the only thing it has in it is tar and nicotine. But the tobacco industries can do whatever they want with their product. If you don't like capitalism maybe you shouldn't be living in a capitalist country. Our neighbor to the north is quite socialist, maybe you'll like it better over there.

P.S. OMFG THE ICE IS MELTING IN ANTARCTICA! Ice isn't supposed to melt WTF!? Crazy fact is the majority of geologists don't agree with the global warming theory. And neither do I, and I am majoring in geology. My class had a poll too, 76 against 21 don't believe in it.

I believe ~snip~

So this is about religion now?

That's like saying owners should have the right to decide whether they allow shootings in their restaurant or not.
Wow somebody thinks cigarette smoke through the body is more harmful than a bullet through the body. Somebody needs to go out and get fucking sense in their heads.

Well somebody believes in global warming. I believe the pollution goes out into and out of our atmosphere at a medium rate. Because well, when I see pollution it's going up, not down. And I think natural disasters are happening because it's an earthly cycle. Besides I buy tobacco that is natural, that the only thing it has in it is tar and nicotine. But the tobacco industries can do whatever they want with their product. If you don't like capitalism maybe you shouldn't be living in a capitalist country. Our neighbor to the north is quite socialist, maybe you'll like it better over there.

P.S. OMFG THE ICE IS MELTING IN ANTARCTICA! Ice isn't supposed to melt WTF!? Crazy fact is the majority of geologists don't agree with the global warming theory. And neither do I, and I am majoring in geology. My class had a poll too, 76 against 21 don't believe in it.

How is this a global warming issue? I think whoever you were quoting meant to say that he didn't want to inhale those biproducts. But if you want to talk about global warming, there's a thread on that, too.

Wow somebody thinks cigarette smoke through the body is more harmful than a bullet through the body. Somebody needs to go out and get fucking sense in their heads.

Or somebody should really go to a hospital and compare shooting wounds to the damage done by smoking for x years.

So this is about religion now?

.....What the fuck are you talking about?

Or somebody should really go to a hospital and compare shooting wounds to the damage done by smoking for x years.
I don't know what those anti-smoking people have put into your brain, but lung cancer develops over atleast 3 decades of smoking. in order to get lung cancer from second hand smoke you'd have to be around someone who smokes all the time, and you won't get lung cancer til you're atleast 90 years old.

And how long does it take for someone to die, a bullet in the lungs, or smoke in the lungs. Hmm lets use our minds for a bit.

I don't know what those anti-smoking people have put into your brain, but lung cancer develops over atleast 3 decades of smoking. in order to get lung cancer from second hand smoke you'd have to be around someone who smokes all the time, and you won't get lung cancer til you're atleast 90 years old.

And how long does it take for someone to die, a bullet in the lungs, or smoke in the lungs. Hmm lets use our minds for a bit.

Well, a bullet might kill you quite fast, cancer kills you over years in an extremely painful manner.

As for the three decades you dream about: do you honestly think that you won't develop cancer if you smoke only, say, 25 years?

Wrong. Smoking (and second hand smoking) increases your cancer risk.
You may be lucky for a few 100 tokes, but you may be unlucky, and that little cell mutates after the first 10 tokes.
Now, for that cell to develop into a full-grown tumor, this indeed takes a few years, usually, but it is cancer nevertheless.

edit: Did some research for you:
"Nonsmokers exposed to secondhand smoke at work are at increased risk for adverse health effects. Levels of ETS in restaurants and bars were found to be 2 to 5 times higher than in residences with smokers and 2 to 6 times higher than in office workplaces.5"
Link (http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422)

"[Second hand smoke is responsible for] 150,000 to 300,000 lower respiratory tract infections (such as pneumonia and bronchitis) in children younger than 18 months of age, which result in 7,500 to 15,000 hospitalizations"
Link (http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/content/PED_10_2X_Secondhand_Smoke-Clean_Indoor_Air.asp)

Have you already been to a hospital, to look at the effects of smoking (and, yes, second hand smoking)?

Stupid me, why open your eyes, when the things you make up are much funnier?

Wow somebody thinks cigarette smoke through the body is more harmful than a bullet through the body. Somebody needs to go out and get fucking sense in their heads.

When the fuck did I say that? Get some sense yourself. Forcing people to breathe your smoke = killing them. Just like forcing a bullet through their body kills them.

There were two people in my life that have went through some sort of death period who were smokers, one died by smoking since he was thirteen, had atleast more than a pack a day, and he died at the age of 56. He was sick for 3 months with pain, he was taking all kinds of drugs, marijuana, painkillers, and oxycontin, this man was also drinking and also other narcotics as well. Another died at the age of 79 from smoking nonfilters for 50 years and was not diagnosed with cancer. But was a bit of a drinker, a beer here and there.

Oh for the love of Jebus....

Listen, no one is proclaiming there should be an outright ban on smoking. No one is advocating that crack teams of law enforcement should enter your house as you're about to light up.

Neither are people advocating a ban on you being unable to smoke while walking along the street.

In both cases, you are harming no one but yourself, and if you want to kill yourself- then by all means.

The issue changes however in enclosed places where the smoke can and does affect others around you. If you don't have the commmon courtesy to not smoke around others, then yes- you should be told to put it out, or finish it outside.

My right to health overrides your 'right' to smoke.

A ban on workplace smoking has not failed to date, in either support or job losses. Its a bogeyman, that's all.

You're gunna die. :)

there are more chemicals in cigarettes than in exhaust fumes of a car.

More, as in more varied. There is certainly more carbon monoxide and nitrogen oxides in vehicle exhaust than there is in cigarette smoke.

A few puffs from a car exhaust, and you'll be stone dead in a few minutes if you don't get to the hospital.

You're gunna die. :)

I got news for you too, YOU'RE ALSO GONNA DIE :)

Am I the grim reaper you may ask? No guy, im just another canadian just aboot to go kick a noofundlander in the bum, sound fun eh?

But you see when people are eating, if they dont want to smell smoke, OH SHIT, they can go to the non smoking section. What the fuck is so wrong with that. This is my whole fucking point, is giving smokers some freedom.

Um, you're forgetting the staff. Should they then have the option to not only not work in the smoking area, but also the right to refuse to ever walk through it?

See, the thing is I have a vice to. I have been known to drink every now and then. My vice also has a byproduct, urine. Yet, you don't see me insisting that I have the right to pollute your environment, piss all over you so that it gets in your clothes and hair, and ensure that when you leave a restaurant you smell like my piss.

I'll tell you what, as soon as you start to fight for my right to urinate on you, I'll fight for your right to smoke around me.


Dammit, you just made me spit coffee all over my laptop....:D

Um, you're forgetting the staff. Should they then have the option to not only not work in the smoking area, but also the right to refuse to ever walk through it?
They have the option to not work there or not. If they don't want to walk through smoke they dont have to work there. Besides you don't have to walk through smoke, there are air filtered systems all throughout those kinds of areas.