NationStates Jolt Archive

My sister's been the black sheep of the family for a few years now (Not because of our own actions, her own are at fault) and recently tried to commit suicide.

As of right now she's in a mental hospital. She vehemently hates my guts and wishes I'd die. Why? Beats me, but her friends have told me it's because I refuse to help her get illegal substances, and because I chastise her about her lifestyle.

I saw her monday, right after she tried to escape from the place. It didn't work. (She kicked out a bulletproof glass window and scaled a 15foot fence :eek: ).

What can I say to a person who hates my guts, wants me dead, and won't listen? I would give anything to see her get everything straightened out...

I don't know if theres anything you can say. It sounds like your sister has one or two screw loose and until those screws get tighten I doubt you can say anything to her that'll make her stop hating your guts.

My sister's been the black sheep of the family for a few years now (Not because of our own actions, her own are at fault) and recently tried to commit suicide.

As of right now she's in a mental hospital. She vehemently hates my guts and wishes I'd die. Why? Beats me, but her friends have told me it's because I refuse to help her get illegal substances, and because I chastise her about her lifestyle.

I saw her monday, right after she tried to escape from the place. It didn't work. (She kicked out a bulletproof glass window and scaled a 15foot fence :eek: ).

What can I say to a person who hates my guts, wants me dead, and won't listen? I would give anything to see her get everything straightened out...
Just try to be nice to her and help her out in any way she'll let you. not much you can do. Just wait till it all gets straitghend out, even though waiting and not doing any thing will be hard, its probably the best idea.

Just let her know you will listen to her, without judging her. I can easily see myself in her place. I know thats what I would want,even if I refused to admit it.

I don't know if theres anything you can say. It sounds like your sister has one or two screw loose and until those screws get tighten I doubt you can say anything to her that'll make her stop hating your guts.


Well, not too long ago she came at me with a steak knife. I turned around and ran like a girl. Yeah.


I did try to help her, both spiritually and physically. I made myself available, and for a time we talked regularly and I gave her lots of advice. Then I realized she was using me like a fiddle to sing her own tune.

*snip*
Then I realized she was using me like a fiddle to sing her own tune.

How so?

Maybe the problem is you just see life from a different perspective. You said you wanted to be there for her spiritually? She may have a different set of spiritual beliefs than you do. I am an atheist, and if someone told me (even nicely) that all I needed was to accept Jesus, or practice what the Bibile says, then I would go after them with a steak knife.

Nothing anger's an addict more than a "hollier than thou" attitude- you mentioned refusing to get her illegal drugs? I see nothing wrong with a little pot here and there. Maybe she was having a bad day, and needed a zanex to calm down or something. Now, you make her out to be a serious addict, which, if it is the case, is something she will need to get over herself. Withdrawal is a very painful thing, both physically and psychologically. They can keep her locked up and away from anything, but until she realizes she can feel ok without whatever her drug of choice is, she will go straight back to it as soon as the opportunity arises.

And if she gets off whatever it is, and has a bad day- she'll probably want a little pot, or a percocet, or something mild to get through it. What she doesn't need is a self-righteous brother telling her to "just say no" and to "find Jesus" because all that will do is piss her off, and make her turn to the harder shit.

Tell her you love her. What else is there? =P

it might not be time to talk. it might be time to listen.

Lock your bedroom at night. I had a whole love/hate thing going on with my brother. We made each other's life a misery as best as we could. Not to the extent of locking doors at night though...

Does she know you spied on her computer usage? If she does, or if she even suspects, that could be a large part of the anger.

Does she know you spied on her computer usage? If she does, or if she even suspects, that could be a large part of the anger.
No kidding.

Honestly, and I'm not saying this to be mean or get on your case, but I think you should say nothing. From the persona you have put forth here on this board and the instances in which you've mentioned her in the past gives me every indication that you are incapable of any sort of real empathy with your sister. I do not believe, no matter how much you intend it, that you are capable of being of any comfort. I do believe you try, but have no real concept of how. I don't believe you can talk to her instead of down to her. I don't believe you'd know the difference.

You and your sister are on the same planet but different worlds. She may get shit on track, she may not. But I think the best thing you can do is ride it out because you don't have the tools.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but from what I've seen that's the advice I'd give.

Yeah... you don't exactly seem like the empathetic type, DM. No offense personally, it's just how you've shown yourself on these boards - if I wasn't as tolerant as I've learned to be, I may have reacted the same way as your sister tbh, and that's without the drugs egging me on.

I am an atheist, and if someone told me (even nicely) that all I needed was to accept Jesus, or practice what the Bibile says, then I would go after them with a steak knife.
0_o
I do hope that you are being sarcastic.

0_o
I do hope that you are being sarcastic.
I wouldn't count on it. And I'd probably have a similar reaction if it happened to me.

I wouldn't count on it. And I'd probably have a similar reaction if it happened to me.
That's just silly...

0_o
I do hope that you are being sarcastic.

I was making a point about self-righteousness in spirituality using sarcasm and the "steak knife" incident the op mentioned.

If I went after every theist who refused to leave me alone with a steak knife, I would have long since ran out of room to bury people in my backyard.

I wouldn't count on it. And I'd probably have a similar reaction if it happened to me.
You would attack someone? With a knife? For talking? Ok…

What if she doesn't want to get straightened out? It's her choice. Going and trying to force her to change doesn't help.

What if she doesn't want to get straightened out? It's her choice. Going and trying to force her to change doesn't help.
She could like wear a t-shirt saying "Psycho by choice". :)

She could like wear a t-shirt saying "Psycho by choice". :)

I have always been partial to "Rehab is for quitters" myself.

You would attack someone? With a knife? For talking? Ok…
Not with a knife. But jump someone's shit? You betcha. When you're feeling low, the last thing someone needs to do is tell you that the reason is because you haven't accepted Jesus into your life, especially if you're a nonbeliever. It's about the most callous thing you can do, because it shows that you don't even know the person you're trying to comfort. Worry about the person--fuck the religion for a minute. If you want to convert them, wait until the intense pain is over. Be a human being, for fuck's sake.

I have always been partial to "Rehab is for quitters" myself.
Ooh, nice one.

Not with a knife. But jump someone's shit? You betcha. When you're feeling low, the last thing someone needs to do is tell you that the reason is because you haven't accepted Jesus into your life, especially if you're a nonbeliever. It's about the most callous thing you can do, because it shows that you don't even know the person you're trying to comfort. Worry about the person--fuck the religion for a minute. If you want to convert them, wait until the intense pain is over. Be a human being, for fuck's sake.
I tend to look down on those that violently react to speech, but that's just me. And I can think of things far more callous than refering someone to the only way one's weak and fairly worthless mind can cope with pain.

I tend to look down on those that violently react to speech, but that's just me. And I can think of things far more callous than refering someone to the only way one's weak and fairly worthless mind can cope with pain.That's the part that gets nonbelievers really pissed off--the notion that there's only one way to deal with pain and that's religion. That's a sure fire way to get yourself thrown out of a person's life completely.

I tend to look down on those that violently react to speech, but that's just me. And I can think of things far more callous than refering someone to the only way one's weak and fairly worthless mind can cope with pain.
I'm pretty sure there have been billions of people who have delt with pain without God and Jesus.

And I can think of things far more callous than refering someone to the only way one's weak and fairly worthless mind can cope with pain.

Assuming her mind is weak and worthless is a problem you seem to share with the op. And probably a large part of why she reacts so negatively to him. And religion is by no means "the only way" to cope with anything.

I'm pretty sure there have been billions of people who have delt with pain without God and Jesus.
They do. And I'm one of them.
Assuming her mind is weak and worthless is a problem you seem to share with the op. And probably a large part of why she reacts so negatively to him. And religion is by no means "the only way" to cope with anything.
I am well aware of that. It is DM's mind that is the weak and worthless one. It still doesn't make what he did bad. Sadly, it's all he knows.
That's the part that gets nonbelievers really pissed off--the notion that there's only one way to deal with pain and that's religion. That's a sure fire way to get yourself thrown out of a person's life completely.
The religious can not help it. They are brainwashed and the only thing that is going to end that is constant criticism and the ease of life created by excessive materialism. In other words, make it hard to be a Christian, at least hard enough as to where sharing their faith is uncomfortable because of their own doubts.

To the OP, maybe it's best not to say anything, but rather show...

Does she know you spied on her computer usage? If she does, or if she even suspects, that could be a large part of the anger.

Nope. She's not wise in computers, and neither is she in friends.


Lock your bedroom at night. I had a whole love/hate thing going on with my brother. We made each other's life a misery as best as we could. Not to the extent of locking doors at night though...


Did that, and a good thing. Tried to kick in my door, and it worked.

How so?

All she wanted out of me was her cat, which I got. After that the only thing I ever got from her was "Hi". There's tons more to it than that, not enough time to explain it all.

And yes, I DO try to help people out when I can. I love helping people, it's one of the gifts god gave me. I just don't help out certain people who you all know I detest and despise.

Maybe the problem is you just see life from a different perspective. You said you wanted to be there for her spiritually? She may have a different set of spiritual beliefs than you do. I am an atheist, and if someone told me (even nicely) that all I needed was to accept Jesus, or practice what the Bibile says, then I would go after them with a steak knife.

Nothing anger's an addict more than a "hollier than thou" attitude- you mentioned refusing to get her illegal drugs? I see nothing wrong with a little pot here and there. Maybe she was having a bad day, and needed a zanex to calm down or something. Now, you make her out to be a serious addict, which, if it is the case, is something she will need to get over herself. Withdrawal is a very painful thing, both physically and psychologically. They can keep her locked up and away from anything, but until she realizes she can feel ok without whatever her drug of choice is, she will go straight back to it as soon as the opportunity arises.

And if she gets off whatever it is, and has a bad day- she'll probably want a little pot, or a percocet, or something mild to get through it. What she doesn't need is a self-righteous brother telling her to "just say no" and to "find Jesus" because all that will do is piss her off, and make her turn to the harder shit.

NO man, we're not talking a little pot.

MJ
Cocaine-crack and coke
Meth
Hydrocodeine
Alcohol
Stolen meds
Huffing
Abusing energy drinks
Ecstacy

:(

She once was a good girl, went to church every week, and was happy as a clam. Now look at her-a mess. That's the way I see it. In addition there are 2 felony counts of cocaine pos/ITD, 4 parking tickets, and 2 accidents, and then there's the failed rehab...


Damn, I'm depressed now.

My sister's been the black sheep of the family for a few years now (Not because of our own actions, her own are at fault) and recently tried to commit suicide.

As of right now she's in a mental hospital. She vehemently hates my guts and wishes I'd die. Why? Beats me, but her friends have told me it's because I refuse to help her get illegal substances, and because I chastise her about her lifestyle.

I saw her monday, right after she tried to escape from the place. It didn't work. (She kicked out a bulletproof glass window and scaled a 15foot fence :eek: ).

What can I say to a person who hates my guts, wants me dead, and won't listen? I would give anything to see her get everything straightened out...

Chastise her? Somehow I get the feeling that that's not all you do...
However, she's the black sheep and you're her scapegoat, is my guess. And she's probably pissed as hell about being in a mental institution, those places are no fun.

What if she doesn't want to get straightened out? It's her choice. Going and trying to force her to change doesn't help.

Well, we're trying our best to pressure her into doing the right thing, because if she doesn't she'll be locked away for a while and be FORCED to undergo rehab, this time though she can't walk away.

Chastise her? Somehow I get the feeling that that's not all you do...
However, she's the black sheep and you're her scapegoat, is my guess. And she's probably pissed as hell about being in a mental institution, those places are no fun.

Can't blame her, but slicing her wrists isn't the way to stay out of them.

She once was a good girl, went to church every week, and was happy as a clam. Now look at her-a mess. That's the way I see it. In addition there are 2 felony counts of cocaine pos/ITD, 4 parking tickets, and 2 accidents, and then there's the failed rehab.
Hmm, well looks like your church couldn't keep her strait. The Christian God loses again. Well, forfeits anyway. It's hard for something that doesn't exist to lose.

Hmm, well looks like your church couldn't keep her strait. The Christian God loses again. Well, forfeits anyway. It's hard for something that doesn't exist to lose.

There is a religion thread THAT (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=479090) way.

P.S. it's spelled "straight"

It seems to me some people here are assuming that being...erm...'psycho' is a choice, and can be easily fixed with a few words, some therapy, and even some pills that make them happy all day long...

Im Bipolar...very bipolar, and I take medicine to help my mood swings. I went to rehab once, so yes...Im 'psycho'. It isnt like smoking, where its your choice to start, and your choice to quit. I mean yes, you can get better over a mental illness, but it takes much more work than some of you guys think.

also, on the religious matter, it is better to refer it to Spirituality, but that is just a petty observation. God and Jesus are a means of (okay before I start this is in no way sacreligious, and Im not saying anything is untrue) distraction from your problems. It is a sign of hope for you, something to inspire you to get better

it doesnt cure you dangit, nothing can

And about this sister of this guy, you said it was her fault that she was the black sheep of the family...that is way to wrong. She is the black sheep because the rest of the family has ostracized her as odd. This is probably a large cause of her depression. But Im not pointing fingers, cause it was her doing as well, no one person is at fault for this sort of thing

Also, if you are trying to get through with her, dont condescend her, or patronize her. She is not lower than you in any way. The fact she hasnt killed herself yet only proves that she is stronger than you. Some of the stuff she feels, even if it is petty, tears her apart on the inside, and many, including myself have wanted to end that forever. You must be patient, and sacrifice a little, to show you care for her...

other than that there isnt much more to be done


She once was a good girl, went to church every week, and was happy as a clam. Now look at her-a mess. That's the way I see it. In addition there are 2 felony counts of cocaine pos/ITD, 4 parking tickets, and 2 accidents, and then there's the failed rehab.

so what? History has shown us that even if you are a devout bible thumper, that doesnt mean your a saint. Church helps SOME people, but definately not all. Especially if it wasnt her choice to go to church, but her parents

There is a religion thread THAT (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=479090) way.
It is obvious to any reasonable person that the reason DM's sister hates him is because of his religion. Now, this hatred may be irrational, but it is still the core of her rancor.

Well, we're trying our best to pressure her into doing the right thing, because if she doesn't she'll be locked away for a while and be FORCED to undergo rehab, this time though she can't walk away.

The problem, in a nutshell.

If her problem is as serious as you say, she has to be in a non-voluntary rehab program, and any pressure you put on her to voluntarily go to one will only make her hate you more when she gets out.

It is obvious to any reasonable person that the reason DM's sister hates him is because of his religion. Now, this hatred may be irrational, but it is still the core of her rancor.

Maybe not just that. The pressure he and his family put on her is probably 33%, their 'you shouldn't do drugs' attitude another 33%, and the religion the final 33%.

Maybe not just that. The pressure he and his family put on her is probably 33%, their 'you shouldn't do drugs' attitude another 33%, and the religion the final 33%.
I'm sure both of the other reasons have their roots in religion.

Religion itself is not bad, but being forced into it generally is.

And Undelia, I would be a little bit more cautious about deciding on the motives of somebody you've never met in your life and have only heard about through one source. Sounds more like prejudice than fact to me. "Someone has problems? Blame religion!"

Religion itself is not bad
Uhh, yeah it is. Faith is one of the most worthless ideas ever.
"Someone has problems? Blame religion!"
Accurate more often than not in religious families.

Religion itself is not bad, but being forced into it generally is.

And Undelia, I would be a little bit more cautious about deciding on the motives of somebody you've never met in your life and have only heard about through one source. Sounds more like prejudice than fact to me. "Someone has problems? Blame religion!"

An American family that sends their children to church till they are 18, without letting them have the choice to NOT attend church at least by the age of 13 or so, would definately have some sort of reprecussions.

Blaming religion is fun. Like playing dodgeball with balls labeled 'Im right' and 'your wrong'

Wow, someone is being more antitheist than me for a change...weird...I don't think that has ever happened before.

Uhh, yeah it is. Faith is one of the most worthless ideas ever.



Not being sacreligious, but you are right. Faith is stupid if you think about it...

like on my desk there is a pen, but not a pencil, but dangit I think there is a pencil there, even though I cant see one and there is absolutely no proof that a pencil even exists with 3 yards of that pen. And hey, Im even gonna write a book about how that pencil is there, and how right I am, no matter how many people wanna kill me over it. I know I cant use it, but I know I could if I did something nice to the desk, or the pen, cause the pen is so much like the pencil, so it has to have something to do with it

My sister's been the black sheep of the family for a few years now (Not because of our own actions, her own are at fault) and recently tried to commit suicide.

As of right now she's in a mental hospital. She vehemently hates my guts and wishes I'd die. Why? Beats me, but her friends have told me it's because I refuse to help her get illegal substances, and because I chastise her about her lifestyle.

I saw her monday, right after she tried to escape from the place. It didn't work. (She kicked out a bulletproof glass window and scaled a 15foot fence :eek: ).

What can I say to a person who hates my guts, wants me dead, and won't listen? I would give anything to see her get everything straightened out...

If you were my brother I would be insane long ago. So I'm not surprised her actions are her own fault.

If you were my brother I would be insane long ago. So I'm not surprised her actions are her own fault.

:D I started think about that in my last post. But I decided to leave that out because I prefer not to start fights

My sister's been the black sheep of the family for a few years now (Not because of our own actions, her own are at fault) and recently tried to commit suicide.

As of right now she's in a mental hospital. She vehemently hates my guts and wishes I'd die. Why? Beats me, but her friends have told me it's because I refuse to help her get illegal substances, and because I chastise her about her lifestyle.

I saw her monday, right after she tried to escape from the place. It didn't work. (She kicked out a bulletproof glass window and scaled a 15foot fence :eek: ).

What can I say to a person who hates my guts, wants me dead, and won't listen? I would give anything to see her get everything straightened out...

You mean you aren't the only mental blacksheep in your family?

Sometimes people have to walk through the storm themselves, like I said before it sounds like your sister has one or two screws loose. It seems like she's blocking almost everyone out, and it also sound like she's going through one hell of a mental storm. Since she blocked everyone out, and is basically unapproacble, the best thing you can do is to be there for her (in person and in prayer) let her walk through the storm by herself, and wait for her to walk out on the other side. I'll say a prayer for her tonight.

Sometimes people have to walk through the storm themselves, like I said before it sounds like your sister has one or two screws loose. It seems like she's blocking almost everyone out, and it also sound like she's going through one hell of a mental storm. Since she blocked everyone out, and is basically unapproacble, the best thing you can do is to be there for her (in person and in prayer) let her walk through the storm by herself, and wait for her to walk out on the other side. I'll say a prayer for her tonight.

*sigh*

I hope they lock the poor girl up. It seems the only way to protect her from you people beating her over the head with a bible.

*sigh*

I hope they lock the poor girl up. It seems the only way to protect her from you people beating her over the head with a bible.

What? I'm not asking him to try to read the Bible to her, or to tell her the only way that she'll be sane is by accepting Jesus Christ. I mean I know that just simply accepting Jesus Christ won't magically cure her. I know that she'll need to go to rehabs, therapies, etc. etc. However it still doesn't hurt to have good thoughts (or saying prayers) for the poor woman, in hopes that she'll get better and stick to her rehab and theraphy.

Jeez...

What can I say to a person who hates my guts, wants me dead, and won't listen? I would give anything to see her get everything straightened out...

You say fine, go ahead, do it.

What? I'm not asking him to try to read the Bible to her, or to tell her the only way that she'll be sane is by accepting Jesus Christ. I mean I know that just simply accepting Jesus Christ won't magically cure her. I know that she'll need to go to rehabs, therapies, etc. etc. However it still doesn't hurt to have good thoughts (or saying prayers) for the poor woman, in hopes that she'll get better and stick to her rehab and theraphy.

Jeez...

It's best when people have substance abuse problems not to deal with them at all - best to leave it to rehab and doctors.

You can't really "help" her - this is something she has to work out herself. You can try, but you'll probably end up enabling her problems.

So sit back, relax, and stop interfering in her life. She might appreciate it.

It also helps if you don't go around telling relatives and friends "she's crazy" or "she's got a few screws loose". That sort of thing can make people not talk to you forever.

What? I'm not asking him to try to read the Bible to her, or to tell her the only way that she'll be sane is by accepting Jesus Christ. I mean I know that just simply accepting Jesus Christ won't magically cure her. I know that she'll need to go to rehabs, therapies, etc. etc. However it still doesn't hurt to have good thoughts (or saying prayers) for the poor woman, in hopes that she'll get better and stick to her rehab and theraphy.

Jeez...

just don't tell her your praying for her either. one of my friends was in hospital a while ago and my other friend who's a born-again-christian told her she'd pray for her. after she'd left i stayed and chatted to my friend who was in hospital and she said hearing that made her feel very uncomfortable. while she was aware that praying meant something to my xtian friend she didn't feel she could say what she was thinking which was, "is that all you can think of doing! you useless fucking god-botherer! why can't you do something kind or useful like bring me chocolate or something!". wanting to say this but at the same time not wanting to hurt your friend who obviously thinks she is doing something right for you is a very uncomfortable feeling when you are sick and/or incapable of helping yourself. i have to say i think i'd react the exact same way.

Not being sacreligious, but you are right. Faith is stupid if you think about it...

like on my desk there is a pen, but not a pencil, but dangit I think there is a pencil there, even though I cant see one and there is absolutely no proof that a pencil even exists with 3 yards of that pen. And hey, Im even gonna write a book about how that pencil is there, and how right I am, no matter how many people wanna kill me over it. I know I cant use it, but I know I could if I did something nice to the desk, or the pen, cause the pen is so much like the pencil, so it has to have something to do with it
hehe that was pretty good XD

It's best when people have substance abuse problems not to deal with them at all - best to leave it to rehab and doctors.

You can't really "help" her - this is something she has to work out herself. You can try, but you'll probably end up enabling her problems.

So sit back, relax, and stop interfering in her life. She might appreciate it.

It also helps if you don't go around telling relatives and friends "she's crazy" or "she's got a few screws loose". That sort of thing can make people not talk to you forever.
well here's a first...

i agree with what kimchi said

she is not just a little sad, she is not just taking a bit of something now and then. she is in serious trouble and is being treated by professionals. you can't help her, you have no idea what good advice is in this situation. you cannot fix her.

you have to make sure that YOU are safe. if she really went after you with a knife, then when she comes out of the hospital it can't be to where you are living. if you are living with your parents and she is going there, you have to move out. (if you cant move out, you need to talk to social services about securing your own safety. dont leave it to the delusions of your parents).

you would probably do well to suggest some family sessions with her doctors so that you and your parents can be taught the best way to deal with her.

while she is "away", send her a card now and then. just a nice card with a "thinking of you" message on it. that way she knows you dont hate her for what has happened in the past. there may come a day when she is more rational and realizes that she treated you badly. she will need to know that you have not cut yourself off from her completely.

chances are that she will come through this OK. most people do. until then let the professionals deal with it.

well here's a first...

i agree with what kimchi said


I have a great deal of experience with people who have massive personal problems - the first thing you learn is that you're not able to solve everyone's problems.

Know your limitations.

She once was a good girl, went to church every week, and was happy as a clam. Now look at her-a mess.

Seen that happen before.

Just sayin'.

Instead of talking al the time to her have you listened to the problems she is facing? Maybe shes rebelling against her childhood or something. Maybe theres a source to all this anger and the drugs are a sort of escape for her. Find the source of the problem, in my opinion not the drugs because theres got to be a reason why she started taking them in the first place. If you find the source you can look for a cure but don't keep preaching because then it won't work

I wouldn't count on it. And I'd probably have a similar reaction if it happened to me.
What? Way to live up to the Christianity-hating liberal stereotype. What's so radically offensive about religious preaching? It's mildly annoying at worst.

What? Way to live up to the Christianity-hating liberal stereotype. What's so radically offensive about religious preaching? It's mildly annoying at worst.

No.

When you've had a shit day, the last thing you need is to be surrounded by preachy Christians - sorry, make that any religious denomination - telling you that you're going to hell.

The very fucking last thing.

I have a great deal of experience with people who have massive personal problems - the first thing you learn is that you're not able to solve everyone's problems.

Know your limitations.

absolutely

and don't think that just because its a relative she won't actually hurt you. that's how people get killed.

What? Way to live up to the Christianity-hating liberal stereotype. What's so radically offensive about religious preaching? It's mildly annoying at worst.
Hey, I'm a Pentacostal Christian, but I know when it's best not to bring up Christianity.

You have to bring it up with people who will be receptive - not with people who have mind-crushing problems distracting them.

What? Way to live up to the Christianity-hating liberal stereotype. What's so radically offensive about religious preaching? It's mildly annoying at worst.
try it more like this. You have a shit day/week/month/year. You want someone to either fix it or help you in a tangible way. Instead, you get told that your belifes are wrong and that the only way you will feel better is to accept a god you don't believe in. Not only does it do nothing to help, it is grating, annoying, and pointless. If you are going to help, help. I don't want to be preached at on my best days, and if you are actually a friend, you damn well better know that. If it is my worst day, and you preach, then stay away from me. That is quite literally the very last thing I need to hear on a bad day.

She once was a good girl, went to church every week, and was happy as a clam. Now look at her-a mess. That's the way I see it. In addition there are 2 felony counts of cocaine pos/ITD, 4 parking tickets, and 2 accidents, and then there's the failed rehab...

Does anyone know why a good girl who was "as happy as a clam" became a drug addict?

Chances are good she wasn't a happy little clam after all, and that she was hiding depression and/or anger and/or mental illness inside until she couldn't handle it by herself anymore.

Until she works out the root cause that drove her down this path, she isn't going to want to get off of drugs. If she has a mental illness, then she needs treatment for it.

I suppose she could have just been the good little church girl who "fell in with the wrong crowd" but if she just suddenly started making the wrong friends, that is still an indication that she was unhappy about something and looking for an outlet.

Anyway, if you really want your sister to get better, your family needs to figure out what the underlying problem is and help her deal with it. Cause she's not likely to be ready to kick the addiction until that happens.

And not to be mean, but if your whole family is as not-tactful and umempathic as you seem, you might want to leave this in the hands of some experienced counsellors.

First, to all the christian-haters out there... You haven't met a real christian. A real christian preaches using action, and only uses words when neccesary. :D (paraphrased from St. Francis).

Anyways bro, sit and wait. Pray for her. Let her know that no matter what you will always love her and will be there when she needs you. Blood is thicker than water and you two will always be family no matter what she does to you or anyone else. Do you know what she was diagnosed with? Sounds like she sees you as the cause of her problems. Maybe she feels your parents favored you more than her no matter what she did? Usually that's what causes siblings to lash out at eachother violently. Jealousy is a very bloody affair. Maybe you should arrange to talk to her in a more calm manner. Ask her why she hates you. Find that out and I think you'll have found the root of the problem.

Does anyone know why a good girl who was "as happy as a clam" became a drug addict?

Chances are good she wasn't a happy little clam after all, and that she was hiding depression and/or anger and/or mental illness inside until she couldn't handle it by herself anymore.

'mmhm.

how happy are clams anyway? i'd question whether something so passive can be happy. interesting comparison i think.

My sister's been the black sheep of the family for a few years now (Not because of our own actions, her own are at fault) and recently tried to commit suicide.

As of right now she's in a mental hospital. She vehemently hates my guts and wishes I'd die. Why? Beats me, but her friends have told me it's because I refuse to help her get illegal substances, and because I chastise her about her lifestyle.

I saw her monday, right after she tried to escape from the place. It didn't work. (She kicked out a bulletproof glass window and scaled a 15foot fence :eek: ).

What can I say to a person who hates my guts, wants me dead, and won't listen? I would give anything to see her get everything straightened out...

tell her that you love her. and that is why you arnt going to help her get drugs. she may need to hear that from some one. if she has been the black sheep for so long she may feel like no one cares anymore she is probly really lonly. if it was me( and i was in your sisters place and my older brother was in yours),even if i was really mad at him it would help to know that he loved me no matter what i was going though.

My sister's been the black sheep of the family for a few years now (Not because of our own actions, her own are at fault) and recently tried to commit suicide.

As of right now she's in a mental hospital. She vehemently hates my guts and wishes I'd die. Why? Beats me, but her friends have told me it's because I refuse to help her get illegal substances, and because I chastise her about her lifestyle.

I saw her monday, right after she tried to escape from the place. It didn't work. (She kicked out a bulletproof glass window and scaled a 15foot fence :eek: ).

What can I say to a person who hates my guts, wants me dead, and won't listen? I would give anything to see her get everything straightened out...

'Straightened out'? Just because you disagree with her choice of lifestyle, you feel she should be forced to conform to your opinions in this matter?

I don't condemn you for feeling this way - this feeling is only engendered out of love and compassion. But ultimately the only person who can change your sister's life is her. If she refuses to, then there is nothing you can do. Interfering, no matter how good the motive, will only damage your relationship. The most you can do is be prepared to give help when she askes you for it.

Instead of talking al the time to her have you listened to the problems she is facing? Maybe shes rebelling against her childhood or something. Maybe theres a source to all this anger and the drugs are a sort of escape for her. Find the source of the problem, in my opinion not the drugs because theres got to be a reason why she started taking them in the first place. If you find the source you can look for a cure but don't keep preaching because then it won't work

This is a good point that I wanted to bring up. It's possible that she's got a biologically based problem, in which case, all you're saying is not going to help her, she'll need meds. However, it's possible that there's a serious issue and she's turning to drugs to escape it - this is actually one of the main reasons why someone will turn HEAVILY to drugs and/or alcohol. I haven't seen it be typical for someone to turn so heavily for a biologically based issue. Maybe you should try to find out what has hurt her so badly - you can ask if something is bothering her, but a psychotherapist is probably the best course - not only are they good at finding problems, but they're trained to solve them too. However, you must realize that she's the one who has to fix her problem. All the psychotherapists in the world won't help if she doesn't want them to. You really have no control over what she'll do, and you have to accept that.

That said, there are things you can do to keep yourself safe, and to not make the situation worse. While refusing to get drugs for her is a good thing, having a holier-than-thou attitude is not (as mentioned earlier). Do NOT pretend that you understand her situation and know exactly how she should deal with it and that she's being ridiculous. You don't, and it will make her very resentful and unwilling to listen. And yeah, don't preach or anything for any religion. Respect her beliefs - whatever they may be and however much you may disagree with them. Best of all, ask her if she wants you to do anything for her, and if she has something (besides "die" or "get me <drug>" or something obviously wrong like that) that she wants you to do, do it for her if you can. Don't break your word ever. Be someone she can rely on. That's about the best you can do.

Seen that happen before.

Just sayin'.

It happens far too many, and I've seen a lot.

'Straightened out'? Just because you disagree with her choice of lifestyle, you feel she should be forced to conform to your opinions in this matter?

I don't condemn you for feeling this way - this feeling is only engendered out of love and compassion. But ultimately the only person who can change your sister's life is her. If she refuses to, then there is nothing you can do. Interfering, no matter how good the motive, will only damage your relationship. The most you can do is be prepared to give help when she askes you for it.

Trying not to be contrite, but her lifestyle is unsupportable based upon her actions.

And now she's friendless. Already pissed off ALL of them.

Oh, and she's back now, unfortunately.

If you were my brother I would be insane long ago. So I'm not surprised her actions are her own fault.

She's gonna hate me for doing whats right. She can't even keep a job for more than a week.

When she told me she needed a ride to use a payphone to call her dealer, I said no. When I told her I thought she was an idiot for getting involved in parties where we both knew drugs would be involved. Then there's the knife incident.....

I don't put up with anything from her, as much as I love her.

My sister's been the black sheep of the family for a few years now (Not because of our own actions, her own are at fault) and recently tried to commit suicide.

As of right now she's in a mental hospital. She vehemently hates my guts and wishes I'd die. Why? Beats me, but her friends have told me it's because I refuse to help her get illegal substances, and because I chastise her about her lifestyle.

I saw her monday, right after she tried to escape from the place. It didn't work. (She kicked out a bulletproof glass window and scaled a 15foot fence :eek: ).

What can I say to a person who hates my guts, wants me dead, and won't listen? I would give anything to see her get everything straightened out...
you must remember that your sister is not in her right mind at the moment.A couple of years ago I also attempted (and very nearly succeded )suicide.
She is probably suffering deeply from depression and doesnt understand what you are trying to do for her or how much you care.
the best you can do now, is accept her for who she is, her lifestyle may not be that of your choice or one you approve of-but she is depressed and in time she will realise herself what her lifestyl is doing to her-eg if she is tajking illegal drugs.Again I was addicted to drugs for years and that can lead to depression and psychosis.
you need to forgive her past transgressions, tell her you love her very much(it is obvious you do) and stick with her-she will say things that upset you.and she will be difficult to understand.you need to find out why she was the black sheep-what happened to her to make her like this-people rarely become like this in isolation-were your parents too strict?did she feel like an outsider?was she bulluied or abused?once you find out the reasons you can start to deal with it.most importantly be understanding-on no accounts blame her to her face or tell her to snap out of it.See if she can get councilling and anti depressants -this will help rationalise her thinking and make her feel well enough to discuss things rationally with you.
good luck to you and her.

Silence is golden, golden.

In reply to the original thread; never surrender her totally to any healthcare system. Religion may not be her cup of tea - forcing your beliefs upon her (even if it is in your mind, The Holy Word) isn't exactly going to endear her to you.

My sister's been the black sheep of the family for a few years now (Not because of our own actions, her own are at fault) and recently tried to commit suicide.

As of right now she's in a mental hospital. She vehemently hates my guts and wishes I'd die. Why? Beats me, but her friends have told me it's because I refuse to help her get illegal substances, and because I chastise her about her lifestyle.

I saw her monday, right after she tried to escape from the place. It didn't work. (She kicked out a bulletproof glass window and scaled a 15foot fence :eek: ).

What can I say to a person who hates my guts, wants me dead, and won't listen? I would give anything to see her get everything straightened out...

I don't blame her.

Try not saying anything. If she asks for something, if it's something bad just say 'I'm sorry, I don't think that's good for you so I can't help you with it.' If she's asking for something harmless, try and get it for her, and be honest about what you can do. Otherwise? Shut the fuck up. If she wants to talk, listen, but DO NOT PREACH. YOu have your beliefs, and they work for you, great, but obviously they didn't work for her and she doesn't want to hear it. True christians do not try and force nonbelievers to the christian path. True christians help other christians live the christian way, but anyone claiming to be christian and trying to force others to be christian is in fact not living the christian way. Don't chastise her or try and force her into anything. It won't help, and will just make things worse.

Maybe the problem is you just see life from a different perspective. You said you wanted to be there for her spiritually? She may have a different set of spiritual beliefs than you do. I am an atheist, and if someone told me (even nicely) that all I needed was to accept Jesus, or practice what the Bibile says, then I would go after them with a steak knife.

Nothing anger's an addict more than a "hollier than thou" attitude- you mentioned refusing to get her illegal drugs? I see nothing wrong with a little pot here and there. Maybe she was having a bad day, and needed a zanex to calm down or something. Now, you make her out to be a serious addict, which, if it is the case, is something she will need to get over herself. Withdrawal is a very painful thing, both physically and psychologically. They can keep her locked up and away from anything, but until she realizes she can feel ok without whatever her drug of choice is, she will go straight back to it as soon as the opportunity arises.

And if she gets off whatever it is, and has a bad day- she'll probably want a little pot, or a percocet, or something mild to get through it. What she doesn't need is a self-righteous brother telling her to "just say no" and to "find Jesus" because all that will do is piss her off, and make her turn to the harder shit.
How do you know what she needs, wants or is open to?

No kidding.

Honestly, and I'm not saying this to be mean or get on your case, but I think you should say nothing. From the persona you have put forth here on this board and the instances in which you've mentioned her in the past gives me every indication that you are incapable of any sort of real empathy with your sister. I do not believe, no matter how much you intend it, that you are capable of being of any comfort. I do believe you try, but have no real concept of how. I don't believe you can talk to her instead of down to her. I don't believe you'd know the difference.

You and your sister are on the same planet but different worlds. She may get shit on track, she may not. But I think the best thing you can do is ride it out because you don't have the tools.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but from what I've seen that's the advice I'd give.

I tend to agree with this assessment.

My sister's been the black sheep of the family for a few years now (Not because of our own actions, her own are at fault) and recently tried to commit suicide.

As of right now she's in a mental hospital. She vehemently hates my guts and wishes I'd die. Why? Beats me, but her friends have told me it's because I refuse to help her get illegal substances, and because I chastise her about her lifestyle.

I saw her monday, right after she tried to escape from the place. It didn't work. (She kicked out a bulletproof glass window and scaled a 15foot fence :eek: ).

What can I say to a person who hates my guts, wants me dead, and won't listen? I would give anything to see her get everything straightened out...

I think the problem doesn't lie with her, but with you. You're the one asking for advice given to you by complete strangers...and on an internet message board. Figure things out on your own or discuss them with your family. If you're serious about helping this girl, then you'll talk about it with your actual family members and not users on a message board. If you're actually serious about helping her, you'll talk with professionals. If you're actually serious about helping her, apologize for making her to seem like a black sheep. You and your family should be ashamed for pushing her away and look like a black sheep on the family. But it seems to me that you just want to feel better about this, regardless if she gets better or not.

She's gonna hate me for doing whats right. She can't even keep a job for more than a week.

When she told me she needed a ride to use a payphone to call her dealer, I said no. When I told her I thought she was an idiot for getting involved in parties where we both knew drugs would be involved. Then there's the knife incident.....

I don't put up with anything from her, as much as I love her.

Oh, and calling someone an idiot doesn't help. You're just digging yourself deeper...at your sister's expense.

So let me get this straight...DM you specifically called her an idiot and to your immense surprise this had no apparent positive effect on your sister's well-being? :eek:
Mmm, I can only suggest you give up now - clearly you are describing a hopeless case....

My sister's been the black sheep of the family for a few years now (Not because of our own actions, her own are at fault) and recently tried to commit suicide.

As of right now she's in a mental hospital. She vehemently hates my guts and wishes I'd die. Why? Beats me, but her friends have told me it's because I refuse to help her get illegal substances, and because I chastise her about her lifestyle.

I saw her monday, right after she tried to escape from the place. It didn't work. (She kicked out a bulletproof glass window and scaled a 15foot fence :eek: ).

What can I say to a person who hates my guts, wants me dead, and won't listen? I would give anything to see her get everything straightened out...
FIIK, Give her sugar pills.

Well...
Firstly id crack a joke.
"They dont make bulletproof windows like they used to huh."

Then apologise for blacksheeping her, even if your not sorry.
Hug.
Use the old "We should have stuck by you no matter what, your family."

Then visit her a lot and buy sweet things, because food in mental hospitals sucks the donkeys dick.
(Was in for 3 months.) RAWRARWRARWRARW.

just don't tell her your praying for her either. one of my friends was in hospital a while ago and my other friend who's a born-again-christian told her she'd pray for her. after she'd left i stayed and chatted to my friend who was in hospital and she said hearing that made her feel very uncomfortable. while she was aware that praying meant something to my xtian friend she didn't feel she could say what she was thinking which was, "is that all you can think of doing! you useless fucking god-botherer! why can't you do something kind or useful like bring me chocolate or something!". wanting to say this but at the same time not wanting to hurt your friend who obviously thinks she is doing something right for you is a very uncomfortable feeling when you are sick and/or incapable of helping yourself. i have to say i think i'd react the exact same way.
Not everyone feels the same way as you or your friend. Why would she say that she felt "uncomfortable" because someone offered to pray for her?

Well, not too long ago she came at me with a steak knife. I turned around and ran like a girl. Yeah.


I did try to help her, both spiritually and physically. I made myself available, and for a time we talked regularly and I gave her lots of advice. Then I realized she was using me like a fiddle to sing her own tune.

I realise this is quite serious but...


If you tried to convert me to believe in Christianity I would run at you with a steak knife...;)

What? I'm not asking him to try to read the Bible to her, or to tell her the only way that she'll be sane is by accepting Jesus Christ. I mean I know that just simply accepting Jesus Christ won't magically cure her. I know that she'll need to go to rehabs, therapies, etc. etc. However it still doesn't hurt to have good thoughts (or saying prayers) for the poor woman, in hopes that she'll get better and stick to her rehab and theraphy.

Jeez...
I think that ACNAT over reacted......just a tad.

I realise this is quite serious but...


If you tried to convert me to believe in Christianity I would run at you with a steak knife...;)
Spirituality is not the exclusive domain of "Christianity". I know many hardcore addicts who have recovered from hardcore addictions through a program of spirituality.

She's gonna hate me for doing whats right. She can't even keep a job for more than a week.

When she told me she needed a ride to use a payphone to call her dealer, I said no. When I told her I thought she was an idiot for getting involved in parties where we both knew drugs would be involved. Then there's the knife incident.....

I don't put up with anything from her, as much as I love her.
Try to be less self-righteous and have some empathy. Don't chastise her directly, yet.

I know what to say now.

"Hello 911 operator..?"

:p