NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060612-073853-2433r

Looks like the UAW is suffering because American car companies can't make cars or parts that can compete with primarily Japanese cars and parts.

Or compete with Japanese-run US factories that make cars and parts.

Makes you wonder - if the difference in quality is the fault of US management, or US workers.

After all, the workers who assemble BMWs for US sale in South Carolina are US workers, not thousands of Germans. And the same for Toyota factories in the US.

A Toyota isn't the "cheap" car that it used to be when they were first introduced here in the US. So it isn't purely price, or the wages paid to workers being costly.

I think it's the fact that GM and Ford and Chrysler have made cars that SUCK, with quality that REALLY SUCKS compared to other makers - even with both plants using US workers.

Could it be that the unions and their work rules are to blame for the low quality?

Tarrifs tarrifs tarrifs!

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060612-073853-2433r

Looks like the UAW is suffering because American car companies can't make cars or parts that can compete with primarily Japanese cars and parts.

Or compete with Japanese-run US factories that make cars and parts.

Makes you wonder - if the difference in quality is the fault of US management, or US workers.

After all, the workers who assemble BMWs for US sale in South Carolina are US workers, not thousands of Germans. And the same for Toyota factories in the US.

A Toyota isn't the "cheap" car that it used to be when they were first introduced here in the US. So it isn't purely price, or the wages paid to workers being costly.

I think it's the fact that GM and Ford and Chrysler have made cars that SUCK, with quality that REALLY SUCKS compared to other makers - even with both plants using US workers.

Could it be that the unions and their work rules are to blame for the low quality?
Wouldn't the unions also affect the japanese-run US Factories?

Wouldn't the unions also affect the japanese-run US Factories?
Nope.

No unions there.

Far as I know, the unions weren't responsible for deciding to ride the SUV wave even when it became apparent to even the casual observer that it wasn't a viable long term strategy. And it wasn't the unions who did the design of those vehicles either--union workers just built the things.

Nope.

No unions there.
Huh, wierd.

Far as I know, the unions weren't responsible for deciding to ride the SUV wave even when it became apparent to even the casual observer that it wasn't a viable long term strategy. And it wasn't the unions who did the design of those vehicles either--union workers just built the things.
I guess I can blame the quality of the workmanship on the union workers, eh?

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060612-073853-2433r

Looks like the UAW is suffering because American car companies can't make cars or parts that can compete with primarily Japanese cars and parts.

Or compete with Japanese-run US factories that make cars and parts.

Makes you wonder - if the difference in quality is the fault of US management, or US workers.

After all, the workers who assemble BMWs for US sale in South Carolina are US workers, not thousands of Germans. And the same for Toyota factories in the US.

A Toyota isn't the "cheap" car that it used to be when they were first introduced here in the US. So it isn't purely price, or the wages paid to workers being costly.

I think it's the fact that GM and Ford and Chrysler have made cars that SUCK, with quality that REALLY SUCKS compared to other makers - even with both plants using US workers.

Could it be that the unions and their work rules are to blame for the low quality?


Yes let's blame it all on unions.

How are we supposed to compete with a Japanese Auto makers when Japanese Auto makers don't have to pay for there employees health insurance or retirement programs?

Yes let's blame it all on unions.

How are we supposed to compete with a Japanese Auto makers when Japanese Auto makers don't have to pay for there employees health insurance or retirement programs?

Most of the Toyotas sold in the US are made in the US by non-union workers who have health insurance and retirement benefits.

Most of the Toyotas sold in the US are made in the US by non-union workers who have health insurance and retirement benefits.

Damn.

There goes that theory.

Damn.

There goes that theory.
Yeah, no need for unions when the companies arn't trying to screw you.

I guess I can blame the quality of the workmanship on the union workers, eh?
Sure, but how much of the "workmanship" in a car is due to the guy on the line putting it together and how much is due to the management deciding to use inferior quality materials in the first place? Sit inside a Chevy versus a Mazda and you see a difference just in the quality of the plastic used in the dashboard, and Mazda isn't even close to being the best of the Japanese automakers. Who makes those choices?

There's a lot of factors at play here. One is that the Japanese automakers have lower expenses back home because their countries have socialized medicine, so their overall costs are lower--US automakers don't have that luxury. Plus, Japanese automakers put their US plants in "right to work" states that often have depressed economies, so they're able to pay less for labor because they're the only game in town and they have local government support when beating down unions--and man, do they beat them down.

US Automakers could have done the same things, or they could have used their influence inside the US government to level the playing field--pushed for socialized medicine or pushed for an equal labor field--but they didn't for whatever reason. The unions have given a lot of concessions over the last 30 years, and management keeps pocketing bonuses while taking none of the responsibility for their short-sightedness.

The big three won't adapt to the changing times.

Japan and Germany are charging into alternative fuel and hybrid cars and the three says they should have something in 10 years or so.

Chrysler was happy to announce they are going to make a hybrid truck. It will be the Durango. So instead of 9 miles to the gallon you will get 12.

My cousin lives in Detroit and works for a company that provides tubing. He says they are really screwed.

However, Ford is thinking ahead as they are setting up 8 plants for ethanol production.

The Japanese cars are assembled in the US. The parts are still made in Japan and shipped over.

Far as I know, the unions weren't responsible for deciding to ride the SUV wave even when it became apparent to even the casual observer that it wasn't a viable long term strategy. And it wasn't the unions who did the design of those vehicles either--union workers just built the things.
Yep. It also wasn't the unions who decided on the stupid $1.99/gallon guarentee for a year.

"Go ahead and buy a gas guzzling tank to drive to work in because for the first year we'll make sure you pay no more than $1.99/gallon. After that, you're on your own."

Ford at least recognizes where the future is and is pushing their hybrids and Focus models. GM is still clining to the belief that these gas prices are a temporary spike and are going to come down any day now.

Yep. It also wasn't the unions who decided on the stupid $1.99/gallon guarentee for a year.

"Go ahead and buy a gas guzzling tank to drive to work in because for the first year we'll make sure you pay no more than $1.99/gallon. After that, you're on your own."

Ford at least recognizes where the future is and is pushing their hybrids and Focus models. GM is still clining to the belief that these gas prices are a temporary spike and are going to come down any day now.

The oil companies have MAJOR influence on the big three ......

The oil companies have MAJOR influence on the big three ......
The oil companies have major influence on every car manufacturer, but they don't decide their marketing strategies and there is no cospiracy to keep oil supreme and supress alternative energies. The problem is that alternative energies are not economic when compared to oil. That's changing and you can see the oil companies responding, Chevron buying ethanol distilleries, for example, Mobil pouring money into cellulosic ethanol research and Shell being teh largest producer of solar power in the world.

GM's response? They make a hybrid version of their Silverado truck that gets worse mileage than the standard model. They deserve to go extinct and they soon will, Allah willing (PBUH).

I'm not letting management off the hook for stupid decisions, but the workers seem to have gone along with the stupidity (especially the union leaders - look in the article how union leaders were selected, and you'll see that the rank and file had virtually no voice).