NationStates Jolt Archive

Pretty simple question (heh).

Should being in the military grant you any special rights or status? If so, what, and why?

Some rights I guess.. no status, by "rights" what do you mean? Like.. to get discounts?

What?

Pretty simple question (heh).

Should being in the military grant you any special rights or status? If so, what, and why?
Like, I'm going to say "no" to this??? :rolleyes:

they don't really do anythign useful though do they? appart from helping out in diasters. and i suppose they give stupid people jobs, which is nice.

Like, I'm going to say "no" to this??? :rolleyes:

A good point is that being military yourself, you want special rights or status out of self-interest.
Just like with any special interest group.

Is that the product of good reasoning.... or just selfishness?

they don't really do anythign useful though do they? appart from helping out in diasters. and i suppose they give stupid people jobs, which is nice.

oh, look. Another "military=stupid' comment. How original.

As for "rights" or "status", nobody in the military is "granted" either. Some businesses, governments, and individuals choose to recognize the service above and beyond the normal citizen of people who join the military. Nothing wrong w/ that at all. It's the same as offering the same to police or fire department personnel.

One aspect of a 'special status' in the military would be that they can't assault civilians. Although, when we think of 'special status' it often appears to be something positive and beneficial, a lot of the 'special status' of those in the military is restrictive and punative. A military person assaulting a civilian can be more heavily charged, due to their special status. This is one example of how a special status is justified, as military personal are trained in combat and generally have an edge over the civilian population.

Extra or special rights are granted to virtually all groups. If you enroll at a college, for example, you get special rights that are not afforded to people who are not students (like being able to use their library or gym). Why shouldn't military people, who join their own special organization, not get special rights afforded to members?

Being in the military should naturally grant certain advantages, primarily to enable the person to do their job properly. If a military officer needs a seat on a plane to get to his duty station, for instance, the airline should bump a civilian if they have to in order to accomodate him (of course, they should also promptly make arrangements for the guy who got bumped).

But don't forget that the guy in the military willingly foregoes certain rights for the term of his enlistment, too. Notably, his rights of free speech, freedom of movement and freedom of association are all seriously restricted.

Are we talking Robert Heinlein rights and status or what?

Are we talking Robert Heinlein rights and status or what?
I think special rights and status that civilians don't have.

I think special rights and status that civilians don't have.
Well, I already get VA benefits. But there are civilian ways to gain comparable benefits.

As for special rights, no. But veteran status puts you in a politically correct category in the US - it's rather like being an African-American, or a handicapped person.

A good point is that being military yourself, you want special rights or status out of self-interest.
Just like with any special interest group.

Is that the product of good reasoning.... or just selfishness?
Can I choose "Both?" :D

Are we talking Robert Heinlein rights and status or what?
Fuck YEAH! :D

What about the right to buy discount liquor on sundays at the commissary in states with dry laws?

Being in the military would mean that you have fewer rights, not more. Proper submission to the will of those above you are nearly a prerequisite of military service, and you are never given the opportunity for dissent.

However, the protection of the nation, defending it from invasion, that is extremely honorable. Except under totalitarian regimes and theocratic dictatorships, military service should bestow a bit of status upon a person.

However, having status means that people are very glad to meet you. Nothing more.

Well, I already get VA benefits. But there are civilian ways to gain comparable benefits.

As for special rights, no. But veteran status puts you in a politically correct category in the US - it's rather like being an African-American, or a handicapped person.
Heh! You should see some of the looks I get because of my "Disabled Veteran" license plate.

Status? Yes. Rights? No. What rights should a military or former military person have that isn't already protected for all Americans? Hell, I served in the military to guarantee that all people's rights would be EQUALLY protected!

On the other hand, joining the military and certain other volunteer organizations(peace corps etc.) shows a commitment to this country's ideals that I think deserves the respect and gratitude of the people whose lives and ideals these people help to protect.

Status, but no rights...Giving military men "special rights" is a step towards an overly-militarized society.

On the other hand, joining the military and certain other volunteer organizations(peace corps etc.) shows a commitment to this country's ideals that I think deserves the respect and gratitude of the people whose lives and ideals these people help to protect.

Oh, so the only reason anyone ever joins the military is to further this country's ideals?

Oh, so the only reason anyone ever joins the military is to further this country's ideals?
That's why I enlisted.

No to both. Just because it is a particularly dangerous job doesn't mean they should be treated any differently than anyone else.

That's why I enlisted.
And no doubt there are a lot like you... but does that mean the whole group is? which was the question

I´m sat here thinking about the rights I had as a Soldier for 24 years.

Cheap accommodation.....that had to have a fortune spent on it when it was handed back to the German Government. Apparantly it wasn´t fit to house refugees.

Cheap accommodation....that had to have a fortune spent on it when the soldiers were moved out so that the government could house prisoners in it.

25% off rail travel.

Poll tax and council tax even if I deployed to FRY for a year or more.

Notice to deploy within 24 hours anywhere in the world.

Free uniforms.

No overtime pay.

The right to have my leave cancelled at the drop of a hat everytime the politicians fuck up and get me another job to do.

The right to clean up any mess civilians decide we should.

The right not to be a member of any political organisation.

The right to a trial without lawyer.

The right to be tried under Civil, Military, AND European law.

And there´s more.

Frankly I could have done without most of the "rights" granted me by the people who spit on us in peace time then expect us to risk everything for them when they identify a threat to thier cosy existence.

And no doubt there are a lot like you... but does that mean the whole group is? which was the question

In the infantry, you're more likely to meet people who enlisted for more ideal reasons. People in specialties that translate into civilian jobs (and free training) are less likely to have enlisted for ideal reasons.

Over 3/4 of the enlisted in the infantry I served with had college degrees already, and refused to be commissioned as officers.

Including people who had doctorates.

In the infantry, you're more likely to meet people who enlisted for more ideal reasons. People in specialties that translate into civilian jobs (and free training) are less likely to have enlisted for ideal reasons.

Over 3/4 of the enlisted in the infantry I served with had college degrees already, and refused to be commissioned as officers.

Including people who had doctorates.
I had a friend Brian who has a masters and he was elisted in the infantry

But he says it is just cause he wanted to play with humvees and such

To answer the original question... absolutely not. The last thing we need to people to join for the "perks" of status or priveledge. What's next? "Service quarantees citizenship"?

I´m sat here thinking about the rights I had as a Soldier for 24 years.

Cheap accommodation.....that had to have a fortune spent on it when it was handed back to the German Government. Apparantly it wasn´t fit to house refugees.

Cheap accommodation....that had to have a fortune spent on it when the soldiers were moved out so that the government could house prisoners in it.

25% off rail travel.

Poll tax and council tax even if I deployed to FRY for a year or more.

Notice to deploy within 24 hours anywhere in the world.

Free uniforms.

No overtime pay.

The right to have my leave cancelled at the drop of a hat everytime the politicians fuck up and get me another job to do.

The right to clean up any mess civilians decide we should.

The right not to be a member of any political organisation.

The right to a trial without lawyer.

The right to be tried under Civil, Military, AND European law.

And there´s more.

Frankly I could have done without most of the "rights" granted me by the people who spit on us in peace time then expect us to risk everything for them when they identify a threat to thier cosy existence.
If thats the way you feel it may have been smarter for you to not join said military

If thats the way you feel it may have been smarter for you to not join said military

What? and miss out on the chance to pitchfork babies and eat dolphin burgers?

What? and miss out on the chance to pitchfork babies and eat dolphin burgers?
Or miss out on bitching about having to put up with the restrictions on a lifestyle you voulentarily chose ...

Or miss out on bitching about having to put up with the restrictions on a lifestyle you voulentarily chose ...

Ahhh so we also have the right not to bitch about our work? Only civilians are allowed to bitch? Joyous. :) Talk to a policeman, they make my bitching sound positively tame. or are you against them as well.

My point was, the Military has fewer rights than thier civilian counterparts, not more. At least in the Western world.

Ahhh so we also have the right not to bitch about our work? Only civilians are allowed to bitch? Joyous. :) Talk to a policeman, they make my bitching sound positively tame. or are you against them as well.

My point was, the Military has fewer rights than thier civilian counterparts, not more. At least in the Western world.

And our point was that you knew what was involved when you voluntarily signed up.

Ahhh so we also have the right not to bitch about our work? Only civilians are allowed to bitch? Joyous. :) Talk to a policeman, they make my bitching sound positively tame. or are you against them as well.

My point was, the Military has fewer rights than thier civilian counterparts, not more. At least in the Western world.
Usualy a person bitches to other people in the profession rather then generaly ... I would expect people to take exception if I started bitching about the idiot computer users in this country, specialy if I bitched in a public place.

And our point was that you knew what was involved when you voluntarily signed up.
Yup just as I agree to restict my rights to share information when I take a gov contract as well (has happened a few times)