NationStates Jolt Archive

Or scottish, or (Northern) Irish or Wlesh or whatever. Which do you feel that you are, English or British first and formost.

I have to admit I feel more of a Englishman than British, if you asked me to say wehre I come from I'd say England, I'd say I'm English, despite England not actually exisiting as a nation.

What about you, do you consider yourself a member of your country/state/whatever or a part of your nation?

British - and loving the Hebrides as much as I love the Isle of Taney, or Wight, or Anglesey.

You'll have to forgive me for being partial about the North Riding of Yorkshire.

British, then Lancastrian, then English!

I'm from NI, but if asked what my nationality is, depending on who asks, its usually British, sometimes Irish if the said person is American :D

If i wanted to nitpick, my ancestors were from Scotland so i could easilly say that as well :p

I would say i was Australian to a foreigner only because i assume non-Australians to have a very poor idea about my country. Otherwise i would say i'm from Western Australia since it has the greater influence over by standard of living, cultural identity and ethos.

British - and loving the Hebrides as much as I love the Isle of Taney, or Wight, or Anglesey.

You'll have to forgive me for being partial about the North Riding of Yorkshire.
Don't blame you mate, live there myself.

Don't blame you mate, live there myself.

God's own country!

:fluffle:

I do feel any country. I don't relate to a lot of the people up "North" let alone countries I've never been to like Scotland or N.Ireland.

Britain or England? I pick London and :mp5: to all those patriotic/nationalistic brainwashed I love my country folks.

British, then Lancastrian, then English!
That's fairly similar to what I identify with, although perhaps North-west as opposed to Lancastrian, as my family roots are in Cheshire and I live in Cumbria but grew up in Lancashire. I've always been a bit leery about identifying myself as English. It's a bit tricky to explain; The term English seems insufficient to cover all the various viewpoints from the North to south-west to London, whereas Britishness even before post-imperial imigration implied a great deal of variety.

Well we all know what the best part of Lancasshire is...the road to Yorkshire!

That is the only time anyone has ever said anything positive about the M62!

I was born in Middlesex, grew up in Surrey, have lived in Royal Berkshire and West Yorkshire but now live in Rio Grande do Sul. I really don't care what nationality you ascribe to me, so long as it isn't Bushite.

Well we all know what the best part of Lancasshire is...the road to Yorkshire!

And vice versa.

I'd call myself Irish, and I'm from Northern Ireland. Thats simply because I *am* irish. =P

Since i am not an British, English, Scotish or whatsoever, i just don't care...

Well i guess i shouldn't be posting here...

Buy:D

That is the only time anyone has ever said anything positive about the M62!

I was born in Middlesex, grew up in Surrey, have lived in Royal Berkshire and West Yorkshire but now live in Rio Grande do Sul. I really don't care what nationality you ascribe to me, so long as it isn't Bushite.
Your right there!

Scottish then European then British, probably because I lived in Spain for a long time.

Or scottish, or (Northern) Irish or Wlesh or whatever. Which do you feel that you are, English or British first and formost.

I have to admit I feel more of a Englishman than British, if you asked me to say wehre I come from I'd say England, I'd say I'm English, despite England not actually exisiting as a nation.

What about you, do you consider yourself a member of your country/state/whatever or a part of your nation?

As a matter of interest, why the brackets?

British, then Welsh then My Bedroomish

British then Welsh then European then English as i live in England and my grandmother is English the rest is self explanitory.

Lancashire Lad through and through (even though I was born in Cheshire, I say I'm from Lancashire as I prefer it here to Cheshire). I usually just say I'm English though, not out of any preference, but because that's the region of Britain I'm from!

British then Welsh then European then English as i live in England and my grandmother is English the rest is self explanitory.

glad english is propping up the bottom lol

those flags they have out their car windows really annoys me though...

swedish, european, anglisiced, sort of maybe french in a while. but i still can't bring myself to say oh-la-la, and to use a constant stream of 'putain' and 'merde' in conversation (although that was mainly a spaniard) just doesn't sound right.

Meh, I don't have any particular attachment to either England or Britain, nor do they form part of my identity.

If somebody asked me where I was from I'd probably say Manchester. Though that depends on the person.

300 years ago the English people came to a realisation. Their nation sucked - what was it they stood for? Alternating Catholic/Protestant persecution? The World's most feeble Republican revolution? Real ale and dragon slaying? What?

English culture was getting stale and they couldn't think of anything worth rebuilding it from. It was from this despair that the myth of Britain was born. Britain would in effect be a brand new nation, inspired more by the Classical civilisations than mediaeval ones, and a combination of all the best points of each of the cultures of the British Isles. The Project was radical, the people could get behind it, it would be a nation to be proud of, a New Rome, a home of Liberty (which had been so lacking since the Jacobites and under the Lord Protectorship).

And so it was on that day in 1707 that English culture died, sacrificed totally by its adherents, and from its ashes the phoenix of Great Britain arose. The new United Nation came to define itself in contrast to its neighbours who tended increasingly more towards tyranny and oppression, and Britain, the most liberal and stable state around prospered throughout the world. And Rule Britannia was Good.

Then, one day in 1939 a war was started, a war that people believed would be over by Christmas, but instead continued for six years - destroying much of Europe's infrastructure, and many of its citizens. Including the citizens and economy of Britain. After the War Britain was in economic ruins, the Empire, now long neglected, broke free from the control of London... Britain was losing its brand power in what had previously been _its_ world.

Then a new group came into the picture, a group who sensed the weakness of the British Ideal and swooped in like vultures to strike the final blow to Britain. These were the English Nationalists.

Their stated goal was to reinstate a new culture, a culture away from the liberal traditions of Great Britain and restore the long-dead English nation. But on what values would the new England be based on? The answer that the English Nationalists came to was that it should stand on values diametrically opposed to that of Britain, namely, they would oppose the mutually beneficial union, multiculturalism and the Romantic concept of Liberty.

In short the New England is a Fascist England, the new prototype has been created by a small group, just like Britannia was created by a small group at first, and like Britain the new myth of England has been attempted to be pushed down upon the Inner British people, as part of a subtle propaganda war that over many years would seek to depose the Just rule of Britain will a a new English tyranny.

In conclusion, English Nationalism is one of the most serious threats this country has faced in a long time, and it is a threat from the inside, an insidious group that wish to depose the culture of liberty and tolerance that made Britain great with a new hegemony of White Authoritarian England.

Resist England! Rule Britannia! Britons shall ne'er be slaves!

300 years ago the English people came to a realisation. Their nation sucked - what was it they stood for? Alternating Catholic/Protestant persecution? The World's most feeble Republican revolution? Real ale and dragon slaying? What?

<snip>

Resist England! Rule Britannia! Britons shall ne'er be slaves!Selective vision much?

If I had to choose geographic identities I'd probably say I was a Londoner and a European.

*starts singing* o/~ Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner... o/~

I really couldn't care less if someone calls me english, scottish, british, european or whatever. It has absolutly no significance to me.

i was born in scotland but i'm from jersey cuz that was where i grew up. i don't identify particularly with any of the nations that make up the union.

Not too many Irish people on this forum...

I think of myself as British [European] in spirit but USian [American] in body.

I consider myself Irish, but live in America.

I'm not really english, I lived here all my life but my parents aren't english, so I guess I'm British more than anything else.

As an Anglo/Scot I'd say British.

Born in Glasgow, grew up in West Yorkshire, still there now.

Im British above all else, then a Yorkshireman :)

British above english
I'd like to say world above country, but that would be a lie.

I'm USian but I jive with the "I'm a member of the world, not of a country " option. But if I had to pick I would say that I feel Irish because I like to drink.

Not too many Irish people on this forum...
You'll find Irish people aren't British or English.

English rocks, and beats British! We split from you Brits centuries ago, and we'll trample on you if wee have to one day!

im irish . so i picked member of the world. woot! go our completely globalised economy..and the rediculous prices it offers!

eh.. but people thought ww1 would be over by christmas, not ww2.. everyone knew that was a long haul. but nice story..:) it had alot of words in it XD

but yeh there actually are alot of irish on these forums, just prboably not on an english/british thread...but there seems to be a few here too.. heh were everywhere XD

300 years ago the English people came to a realisation. Their nation sucked - what was it they stood for? Alternating Catholic/Protestant persecution? The World's most feeble Republican revolution? Real ale and dragon slaying? What?

English culture was getting stale and they couldn't think of anything worth rebuilding it from. It was from this despair that the myth of Britain was born. Britain would in effect be a brand new nation, inspired more by the Classical civilisations than mediaeval ones, and a combination of all the best points of each of the cultures of the British Isles. The Project was radical, the people could get behind it, it would be a nation to be proud of, a New Rome, a home of Liberty (which had been so lacking since the Jacobites and under the Lord Protectorship).

And so it was on that day in 1707 that English culture died, sacrificed totally by its adherents, and from its ashes the phoenix of Great Britain arose. The new United Nation came to define itself in contrast to its neighbours who tended increasingly more towards tyranny and oppression, and Britain, the most liberal and stable state around prospered throughout the world. And Rule Britannia was Good.

Then, one day in 1939 a war was started, a war that people believed would be over by Christmas, but instead continued for six years - destroying much of Europe's infrastructure, and many of its citizens. Including the citizens and economy of Britain. After the War Britain was in economic ruins, the Empire, now long neglected, broke free from the control of London... Britain was losing its brand power in what had previously been _its_ world.

Then a new group came into the picture, a group who sensed the weakness of the British Ideal and swooped in like vultures to strike the final blow to Britain. These were the English Nationalists.

Their stated goal was to reinstate a new culture, a culture away from the liberal traditions of Great Britain and restore the long-dead English nation. But on what values would the new England be based on? The answer that the English Nationalists came to was that it should stand on values diametrically opposed to that of Britain, namely, they would oppose the mutually beneficial union, multiculturalism and the Romantic concept of Liberty.

In short the New England is a Fascist England, the new prototype has been created by a small group, just like Britannia was created by a small group at first, and like Britain the new myth of England has been attempted to be pushed down upon the Inner British people, as part of a subtle propaganda war that over many years would seek to depose the Just rule of Britain will a a new English tyranny.

In conclusion, English Nationalism is one of the most serious threats this country has faced in a long time, and it is a threat from the inside, an insidious group that wish to depose the culture of liberty and tolerance that made Britain great with a new hegemony of White Authoritarian England.

Resist England! Rule Britannia! Britons shall ne'er be slaves!


What a load of old dumplings .

I understood that Britian came into been becouse wales and ireland were already if unwillingly controlled by England and the scottish parliment signed the act of union.

And why is it ok for Northern ireland , Scottland and Wales to get a degree of self rule but not England . Wanting an english parliment does not mean wanting a white only parliment. Im English and white but im not a racist . My best mate's dad comes from india and his mum from london . All three consider themselves to be English and i have no problem with that.

Been english is not about been white . Neither is it about destroying the union that makes up Britian and it does not make you a facist
Why is it ok for Scots to fly the scottish flag with pride but not the english
Why is it ok to be a welsh natanalist but not have pride in been English .
Extreme natonalism is dangerouse but wanting to be proud of been English is not .

The final blow to Britian was welsh and Scottish natonalist who wanted their countries to have self rule , which they patially recived with the welsh assembly and the scottish parliment . I want to live in a britian that is made up of all its inhabitants , weather they be scottish, Irish, Welsh , English or any other natianality that has choosen to make this isle their home . I want a britian where i can celebrate st georges day as my irish neighbour celebrates st Patricks . And i want a britian where i can fly any damn flag i like , weather its scottich, English or mongolian.

So please do not accuse me of being a Fascist trying to bring about a new English tyrannyand trying to depose the culture of liberty and tolerance that made Britain great with a new hegemony of White Authoritarian England,becouse thats a load of old crap

i was born in scotland but i'm from jersey cuz that was where i grew up. i don't identify particularly with any of the nations that make up the union.
Strange i thought I was the Islander on tbis forum. I was born overthere!

And the brackets are becuase ireland (Eire) is not part oif Britian but Northern Ireland is.

-snip-
That is quite possibly the most inaccurate text on history I've ever read.

I am British, and I detest the Blair Government for trying to tear the Union apart bit by bit.

Yorkshire is a fantastic place, although it would tie with Exmoor in my opinion for the most beautiful part of the country (that I've been to, at least).

That is quite possibly the most inaccurate text on history I've ever read.

I am British, and I detest the Blair Government for trying to tear the Union apart bit by bit.

Yorkshire is a fantastic place, although it would tie with Exmoor in my opinion for the most beautiful part of the country (that I've been to, at least).
Yeah it is pirtty bad, no one claimed that 2nd world war would be over by christmas for a start.

Born English - and British.

Raised elsewhere and compelled to take a broader view.

Hence human.

As for the issue that's being argued here, I'd say Britain is an undeniable geographical and political descriptor as well as what I'd happily call the country when the Old Lady or her son, or grandson, abdicates and UK ceases to be of any use.

At my core, I'm English.

Quite simply, the Welsh jabber on in a language that is only designed to confuse, and the Scots are, well, Scottish.

I am pretty much British from the old times and going back a few generations i am English!

But 100% Kiwi!

My mother's from Glasgow, my father's from Kent.

While born in Kent myself, I left when only 18 months old, and have subsequently lived on both sides of the border, I have an accent that apparently sounds English to Scots and Scottish to southern English - and spent a large amount of time working in Welsh-speaking Wales before moving to Australia 5 years ago.

So on that basis, I'd say I qualify as British before I qualify as either English or Scottish (or Welsh or Irish, obviously). And I'd bet I'm not unique.

British Above English

My Grandfather was a Scot who came down to Corby ("Little Scotland") to work in the Steelworks. The rest of my family are English. I suppose this makes me Slightly British, but so long as people understand the difference between England, Britain and The United Kingdom it doesn't bother me. (What's someone from the UK, anyway? UKnian?)

<pointedcomment>Incidentally it's "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". So's you know.</pointedcomment>

A Londoner from London is a Londoner.
Just a Cokney from Cheltenham.

pray your Lord, mine's on holiday.

English, then British.

I'm more English than anything else, although if pushed by a northerner, I'm from the West Country.

Arr, zoider!

Er, me too. Sometimes.

My Grandfather was a Scot who came down to Corby ("Little Scotland") to work in the Steelworks. The rest of my family are English. I suppose this makes me Slightly British, but so long as people understand the difference between England, Britain and The United Kingdom it doesn't bother me. (What's someone from the UK, anyway? UKnian?)

<pointedcomment>Incidentally it's "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". So's you know.</pointedcomment>

The UK would have subjects. Brits just might be citizens?

I voted that "I feel I'm Scottish above British"

I am very proud of my Scottish identity but I am also very proud to be British. To say that I am British is perhaps a more political than geographical statement.

The UK would have subjects. Brits just might be citizens?

Unfortunately becuase of EU legislation we are now just citizens rather than Subjects

Unfortunately becuase of EU legislation we are now just citizens rather than Subjects

Unfortunately?

I actually prefer being a citizen. Civic pride, rights and responsibilities and all that. Doesn't quite fit in with the subject mentality.

Unfortunately becuase of EU legislation we are now just citizens rather than Subjects
Unfortuntly?

Yes "Unfortunately" I dislike the imposition of a different title by the alien culture of Brussels in place of the evolved, "British" concept of being the subject of a consittutional monarchy.

Scottish rather than British. The whole UK state being referred to as English rather than British by English, Americans, Europeans and pretty much the rest of the world has tarnished the the whole thing for me.

Yes "Unfortunately" I dislike the imposition of a different title by the alien culture of Brussels in place of the evolved, "British" concept of being the subject of a consittutional monarchy.
Personally if it was up to me Britian wouldn't have a queen at all, I want a republic not a monacy. We should put the money we give to ehre into Education/NHS, turn the places and grounds into flats and build on it-raising more money and helping our housing problem.

I find it v irritating when people use England/English as a synonym for Britain/British but I either pity their ignorance, feel smug for knowing the difference or be nice and helpful and explain why some people in the UK might not take kindly to being called English. Let's face it we have a long and complicated constitutional history if you're not a native its probably very easy to get confused.

And the brackets are becuase ireland (Eire) is not part oif Britian but Northern Ireland is.

Never heard of 'Eirish' being used to describe Irish.

Northern Irish to describe Northern Irish, and Irish to describe those south of that border... but Eirish is a new one I must admit.

Edit: Actually, as the title is United Kingdom of Great Britian and Northern Ireland.... would it not be more correct to say that Britian only constitutes the landmass of England, Wales and Scotland?

Personally if it was up to me Britian wouldn't have a queen at all, I want a republic not a monacy. We should put the money we give to ehre into Education/NHS, turn the places and grounds into flats and build on it-raising more money and helping our housing problem.

And how would you pay the President & where would he live?

There are plenty of long-established Republics in the world eg France or the USA why not go and live there instead?

The NHS has had more money in the last few years than ever before and it you could go on throwing more and momre money at it and it would still ned more - it is a bottomless pit.

our housing problem would not be solved by the demolition of a couple of palaces even if English Heritage let you (and I'm pretty sure they would be listed buildings even under a Republican administration).

This is obviously anecdotal but it does illustrate my point about the English/British thing. I once watched an interview with an English lass who was in Argentina (for whatever reason) and she said she was looking forward to getting back to her parents in England. She was asked where in England they lived and she replied Dunblane (very much in the heart of Scotland)! Even Prime Ministers have been known to refer to the UK as England :( .

My worry is that over time it may become more of a prophecy than an irritation :( .

Never heard of 'Eirish' being used to describe Irish.

Northern Irish to describe Northern Irish, and Irish to describe those south of that border... but Eirish is a new one I must admit.

Edit: Actually, as the title is United Kingdom of Great Britian and Northern Ireland.... would it not be more correct to say that Britian only constitutes the landmass of England, Wales and Scotland?

Indeed, Great Britain is perfectly literally the name of the largest of the British Isles. Even Ireland is thus a British Isle, but I'm sure it would not need to be considered part of any eventual British Republic.

Hey, the Queen could go and live in Australia for as long as they'd have her. And the President could be put somewhere... smaller. The German one needs only a very small palace, and if we're thinking of a strong French style Presdiency, why let him/her use whatever government buildings his remit includes.

Indeed, Great Britain is perfectly literally the name of the largest of the British Isles. Even Ireland is thus a British Isle, but I'm sure it would not need to be considered part of any eventual British Republic.
The 'British Isles' are only referred to in this way in the UK. There are many, many Irish people who object to the term, on the basis that they fought for independence from Britain, and so they are certainly not 'British' in any way.

Trust me, call Ireland a 'British Isle' and you're going to get lynched.

It's not really part of this thread but on the citizen/subject thing I'm not effectively bothered about the description so long as I retain the rights and freedoms. However, on an intellectual level, I'm not keen on being described as the subject of someone who just happened to be born into the right family at the right time and is therefore very rich.

I know, and I have no doubts whatsoever that Ireland would swiftly disabuse anyone of the notion that they might be included in such a construct. That's why I think the name would be "safe"

Not that I'll be handing it out.

Surely the British Isles are a purely geographical term and in no way imply Eire is part of the UK. Just like North America in no way implies Canadians or Mexicans are citizens of the USA.

Aye. I was refering to the geographical and the hypothetical poltical entity separately. Answering questions in different directions might have muddied that issue.

It's not really part of this thread but on the citizen/subject thing I'm not effectively bothered about the description so long as I retain the rights and freedoms. However, on an intellectual level, I'm not keen on being described as the subject of someone who just happened to be born into the right family at the right time and is therefore very rich.

I don't think ther eis anyhting inherently wrong with being rich. To me "being rich" does not equate to "is evil, wrong, corrupt in some way". In this context, as the Sunday Times Rich List demonstrates it is not even that relevant.

Oh dear, Monarchist, Unionist and capitalist I do tick all the wrong boxes for membership of this forum.

Surely the British Isles are a purely geographical term and in no way imply Eire is part of the UK. Just like North America in no way implies Canadians or Mexicans are citizens of the USA.
Again, the easiest way to test your 'it's just a term' theory is to suggest it to an Irish person.

I hope you have good running legs.

English! British is too generalised a term. Then again, you could say that about any area term.

English then Coventrian. Heck, we still get moody about not being in Warwickshire anymore. Damn you West Midlands!

Originally posted by Xandabia
I don't think ther eis anyhting inherently wrong with being rich.
Neither do I but I still do not want to be subject to someone who happens to be rich.

Originally posted by Philosophy
Again, the easiest way to test your 'it's just a term' theory is to suggest it to an Irish person.
Do they complain about the Lions being referred to as the British Isles when they tour abroad?

Do they complain about the Lions being referred to as the British Isles when they tour abroad?
I believe so.

Who was the Capt. last time?

Originally posted by Psychotic Mongooses
Who was the Capt. last time?
I honestly can't remember. I mainly remember Scots getting more or less rubbished by the English coach and the team being referred to as the English and Irish Lions :( . Pretty much lost all interest in the whole enterprise after that.

Edit: Actually, as the title is United Kingdom of Great Britian and Northern Ireland.... would it not be more correct to say that Britian only constitutes the landmass of England, Wales and Scotland?
Hence the pointed comment ;)

Cusiter did play pretty well for them 'though didn't he? I thought patterson was v unlucky not to go. they call themselves the British & Irish Lions now (http://www.lionsrugby.com/).

On the subject point could you explain to me why you consider wealth an issue surely it is the principle of heredity that is the relevant one.

Must go and get some lunch will look in later if its still near the top of the board and there aren't 13 million pages by then.

Originally posted by Xandabia
On the subject point could you explain to me why you consider wealth an issue surely it is the principle of heredity that is the relevant one.
Fair enough, I should not have included that. It is not an issue unless pro-monarchists bring up the "poor royals" argument and the "what will happen to the wee souls" if we become a republic. Then the fact that they are very rich and own lots of land is a very potent answer.

(Also, when you make list of points in your argument, three is the magic number ;) )

Personally if it was up to me Britian wouldn't have a queen at all, I want a republic not a monacy. We should put the money we give to ehre into Education/NHS, turn the places and grounds into flats and build on it-raising more money and helping our housing problem.
Heh, maybe we could stop spending money on armed adventures to other countries and invest that into the NHS and Education.

But I suspect Blair thinks otherwise.

Heh, maybe we could stop spending money on armed adventures to other countries and invest that into the NHS and Education.

But I suspect Blair thinks otherwise.

*shakes head*
We do need both, after all.

But we could stop giving 2-jags more cars, really.

Or get rid of the vile man altogether.

Or get rid of the vile man altogether.

*seconds the motion*

If we believed in Government by toffs, we could just go with the Tories.

Well, next General Election, they will get in anyway.

New Labour have more or less killed themselves this past year.

EDIT: Even typing "New" Labour makes me feel dirty.

Well, next General Election, they will get in anyway.

New Labour have more or less killed themselves this past year.

EDIT: Even typing "New" Labour makes me feel dirty.

You saved me the trouble.

At least I can type Ming for PM without feeling dirty.

*happy-dance*

I don't know, Lib Dems seem just to feeding off Tory and Labour mistakes.

I don't know, Lib Dems seem just to feeding off Tory and Labour mistakes.

Yup. The need to cleanse the country of Tory and Labour mismanagement is urgent.

Anyway, enough of that.

UK-OK.

When I'm in England, I say I'm from Birmingham; if I go elsewhere in the Union I feel English; if I go abroad I tend to say I'm British but it seems to me that most foreigners see 'English' and 'British' as the same thing anyway!

10 Downing street seems as okay place to live, you know....

And yeah Britians in a real state, labour and the Tories keep trying to out-right-wing each other, what ahppened to the days of Tony Benn?

Heh, maybe we could stop spending money on armed adventures to other countries and invest that into the NHS and Education.

But I suspect Blair thinks otherwise.

Or, we could privatise the health service, and put more money into education.

Or, we could privatise the health service, and put more money into education.

The NHS is - much more than Education - the ultimate symbol of the care and concern that we as Britons owe eachother.

The NHS is - much more than Education - the ultimate symbol of the care and concern that we as Britons owe eachother.

No we don't. If we privatised we could cut taxes by up to 25%. Brilliant heh?

No we don't. If we privatised we could cut taxes by up to 25%. Brilliant heh?

Not exactly.
Apart from the funding that you'd now have to pay for - not by taxes - but straight out of your own pocket - for Insurance.
But then, if I were to cut your education...

No we don't. If we privatised we could cut taxes by up to 25%. Brilliant heh?
yay, less atxes, now I ahve to carry a card around saying which hospital I'm insured with, i have to worry about getting good care, I'm threatened with bankrupcy to keep my medical care up, I'm stuckw ith a cill of £2000 for a broken leg when I don't have the money.

I'd take the taxes. You can plan when your going to be taxed anhow much you'll lose. Much better. And, despite constant rubbish from the RWP the NHS actualy provides a very, very good level of care.

Cutting taxes and paying for it privately doesn't make much sense. At the end of the day, to use that phrase which is waaaaay over used these days, your still paying for the same thing and everyone else's healthcare as well through insurance payments. So, back to square one. I'd rather pay the money to the government than to some company that is looking at profits for their shareholders and managing directors than treatment for the injured, although New "Labour" is happily going along that route with sneak privatisation of one of the better things to come out of the end of the Second World War.

Privatisation cannot be value for money becouse

Government funded NHS is not there to make a profit .
All money should go on patient care , staff wages and training , equipment and building upkeep and medicines .

If a private company was to run it , a profit needs to be made for share holders and so the fat management can get their bonus .

It is the same with all things . Privatising the trains promised a new era of customer care and value . What we actually got was twelve different fairs for the same bloody journey , late trains , less trains and more acidents becouse the train operators and the track maintenance were not the same and failed to communicate .

The labour governemnt are morons , the liberal dems are patheticly keen on making us a satalite state of europe and giving everyone who commits a crime tea and buiscuts and a good chat and the tories cant make up their mind wheather their going to become extremily right wing or perhaps take a stab at been left wing .

And why blame the monarchy for our money problems . The Government threw cash at the nhs and it got wasted becouse they let the same inept stupid selfish greedy twat managment that got the hospitals into debt in the first place be the ones who spent it . If they fired the bloody morons and replaced them with people who knew how to do their jobs then the nhs would work.

And our lovely mps of all parties just keep giving themselves more holiday but increasing their pay , even though they now do less work than a dole bludger , and rather than pay a 5% increae of their wages into their own pension fund to sort out its problem , they voted to plug it with public money from the state pension fund the rest of us will get , after of course we have worked until the age of 120 and even then it will probebly amount to about £3.50 and a packet of penuts a week .

Some times living in a democracy is pointless when you vote out one set of selfish greedy gits only for another set of selfish greedy gits to replace them .


And while the monarchy does have a lot of pointless hangers on who could be trimmed , at least the queen does what she does becouse she belives its her Duty , Not becouse she wants to rob us blind , lie to us and shag her P.A .

Frankly its a bad idea to give power to people who want it becouse they never want it to make life better for us . The only difference between a dictator and a elected leader is that the PM or president has to bull shit us every so many years to stay in power .

God i feel better for that

while in the UK i say iam Lincolnshire any where else i say iam British dont yink most ordinary people of the world would know where lincolnshire is

Irish, then a Dubliner.

Originally Posted by Darkspring
God i feel better for that
And so you should. That was much better out than in :) .

yay, less atxes, now I ahve to carry a card around saying which hospital I'm insured with, i have to worry about getting good care, I'm threatened with bankrupcy to keep my medical care up, I'm stuckw ith a cill of £2000 for a broken leg when I don't have the money.

I'd take the taxes. You can plan when your going to be taxed anhow much you'll lose. Much better. And, despite constant rubbish from the RWP the NHS actualy provides a very, very good level of care.

Stop getting in a hissy fit. National identity cards that encorporated health insurance information would kill two ickle' birdies with one stone.

As for the actual costs, no. I rather envisage a system whereby insurance rates are altered annually in accordance with inflation, and do not fluctuate with the cost of each operation. I would also ensure that subisdies, and affordable health care, was available to all.

Frankly, the NHS is a burden upon the majority of society.

Or actually a boon to the vast majority, which is what most people actually see it as.

Stop getting in a hissy fit. National identity cards that encorporated health insurance information would kill two ickle' birdies with one stone.

As for the actual costs, no. I rather envisage a system whereby insurance rates are altered annually in accordance with inflation, and do not fluctuate with the cost of each operation. I would also ensure that subisdies, and affordable health care, was available to all.

Frankly, the NHS is a burden upon the majority of society.
Oh so you want to waste more money on NIDCards as well do you? What a waste that is. And insurence rates would haev to be controlled by the goverment then, not by the companys.

Oh so you want to waste more money on NIDCards as well do you? What a waste that is. And insurence rates would haev to be controlled by the goverment then, not by the companys.

Dyou think we need an UK-only NHS poll?

The large number of British voters who voted for political parties that don't deem the NHS sacrosanct does lead me to Certain Conclusions...

Dyou think we need an UK-only NHS poll?

The large number of British voters who voted for political parties that don't deem the NHS sacrosanct does lead me to Certain Conclusions...
Done that, just about everyone voted for the NHS, except for a few right-wingers.

If someone asks where I'm from, I always say "England", out of habit. I don't think I've ever actually said "I'm English", but it's implied.

Done that, just about everyone voted for the NHS, except for a few right-wingers.

Very few. Even rather right-wing dailies ranted against 'blasphemers' who don't hold the NHS sacrosanct.

British first, European second, English last.

Welsh First and foremost. not English , wont and can't :) :) support England in the football.
It's like the old story.......
Wales was blessed with the most beautiful people.
Wales was blessed with fantastic clean rivers , beautiful scenery and a fantastic wonderful countryside...
Wales was blessed with fantastic musicians , artists and intelligent forward thinking people.
When god was asked " Why have the Welsh been given all this?"
god replied" Well have you seen the neighbours I gave them???":upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :p :p :D :D

Privatisation cannot be value for money becouse

Government funded NHS is not there to make a profit .
All money should go on patient care , staff wages and training , equipment and building upkeep and medicines .

If a private company was to run it , a profit needs to be made for share holders and so the fat management can get their bonus .

It is the same with all things . Privatising the trains promised a new era of customer care and value . What we actually got was twelve different fairs for the same bloody journey , late trains , less trains and more acidents becouse the train operators and the track maintenance were not the same and failed to communicate .

The labour governemnt are morons , the liberal dems are patheticly keen on making us a satalite state of europe and giving everyone who commits a crime tea and buiscuts and a good chat and the tories cant make up their mind wheather their going to become extremily right wing or perhaps take a stab at been left wing .

And why blame the monarchy for our money problems . The Government threw cash at the nhs and it got wasted becouse they let the same inept stupid selfish greedy twat managment that got the hospitals into debt in the first place be the ones who spent it . If they fired the bloody morons and replaced them with people who knew how to do their jobs then the nhs would work.

And our lovely mps of all parties just keep giving themselves more holiday but increasing their pay , even though they now do less work than a dole bludger , and rather than pay a 5% increae of their wages into their own pension fund to sort out its problem , they voted to plug it with public money from the state pension fund the rest of us will get , after of course we have worked until the age of 120 and even then it will probebly amount to about £3.50 and a packet of penuts a week .

Some times living in a democracy is pointless when you vote out one set of selfish greedy gits only for another set of selfish greedy gits to replace them .


And while the monarchy does have a lot of pointless hangers on who could be trimmed , at least the queen does what she does becouse she belives its her Duty , Not becouse she wants to rob us blind , lie to us and shag her P.A .

Frankly its a bad idea to give power to people who want it becouse they never want it to make life better for us . The only difference between a dictator and a elected leader is that the PM or president has to bull shit us every so many years to stay in power .

God i feel better for thatPrivatisation can be good sometimes. The drive for profit leads managers to cut unnecessary jobs. Unfortunately this can lead to managers cutting too many corners and making the service worse.

I can't think of how to say this theoretically, by my example is from the art college department my mum used to work in. One year they were able to cut costs, but because they wanted to keep their budget for next year they just ordered lots of random things which they weren't really in need of, so they could present an application for the same budget to the college.

Ideally, nationalisation would provide the best service. An effcient service with no money being given to shareholders. However, humans aren't ideal. Hence privatisation and nationalisation tend to two points on the oppostite end of a spectrum. Whereas what is really needed is a balance. A privatised company tends towards effciency, but tend not to provide a better service than they have to because of profit motive (If I can get money for doing this, why should I do any more?). Whereas a nationalised company tends towards a better service because many workers will be in the industry because they care about their work more than they care about their wage, but such set ups can be ineffcient because everyone cares about the service more, or sometimes their own pocket, more than any external financial targets (if there are any).

Northern Irish first, then British, then Irish. Unless I'm talking to someone from the USA, in which case it saves time to simply say I'm Irish (though it has the unpleasant side effect, in many cases, of said individual(s) discussing how Irish they happen to be).

Welsh First and foremost. not English , wont and can't :) :) support England in the football.
It's like the old story.......
Wales was blessed with the most beautiful people.
Wales was blessed with fantastic clean rivers , beautiful scenery and a fantastic wonderful countryside...
Wales was blessed with fantastic musicians , artists and intelligent forward thinking people.
When god was asked " Why have the Welsh been given all this?"
god replied" Well have you seen the neighbours I gave them???":upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :p :p :D :D

We tell the same joke in Scotland

We tell the same joke in Scotland

In Yorkshire, we tell that joke too...

*makes a note to use this for the next Emmerdale-episode*

In Yorkshire, we tell that joke too...

*makes a note to use this for the next Emmerdale-episode*

is there anyone left in Emmerdale? it must have a mortality rate to equal the village of Midsommer?

is there anyone left in Emmerdale? it must have a mortality rate to equal the village of Midsommer?

Immigrants.
I'm sure we're about to get a nice black chick, who happens to be lesbian.

That - or a Scotsman.

Can't have gay men yet - since there is no one else male-gay yet, it would be excessively Little Britain.

is there anyone left in Emmerdale? it must have a mortality rate to equal the village of Midsommer?
All I can say is that the mortality rate in Arncliffe isn't that high (Arncliffe is where Emmerdale is based on and where it sued to be filmed)