NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm sure everyone has been keeping up with the thread called "New israel massacre", which followed the original reporting that the Israel Defese Forces shelled a Gaza beach, killing seven (or twelve, depending on the source) Palestinians. The original claim from the Palestinians was that it was an Israeli gunship, which was disproven. Then the IDF began an investigation and found the following:

The Gaza beach explosion was not a result of Israeli shelling, but of a Palestinian rocket that misfired. Both Israeli and Palestinian sources have concured on this fact:

Misfiring of Palestinian rocket causes Gaza blast (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1149572653727)

"Jun. 10, 2006 22:07
Misfiring of Palestinian rocket causes Gaza blast
By ASSOCIATED PRESS

A Palestinian rocket that went off prematurely caused an explosion Saturday in the northern Gaza Strip, Palestinian security officials said.

Initially, the officials said the explosion was caused by an Israeli air strike, but later recanted their statement. The army said it had not carried out a missile strike in Gaza."

Now we just get to wait and see how many of the people condeming Israel will come to this thread and condemn Palestine. Its only fair, now that we found out the truth, isn't it?

Strange - this article cited as being from the Associated Press doesn't come up in a search for 'palestinian rocket' on the Associated press website:

Amid violence, Abbas sets referendum date Jun 10, 4:37 PM EDT
U.S. calls for mutual restraint in Mideast Jun 9, 11:12 PM EDT
Israeli strike kills top Hamas enforcer Jun 8, 5:35 PM EDT
Report: Israeli air force fires missiles Jun 8, 4:59 PM EDT
Fatah militia raises tensions with Hamas Jun 3, 4:22 PM EDT
Senior member of Hamas military wing hurt Jun 3, 5:33 AM EDT
Report: Palestinian rockets land in Israel May 31, 2:55 AM EDT
Palestinians report 3 dead in Gaza attack May 29, 5:51 PM EDT
Truce holds as Lebanese hold mass funeral May 29, 5:13 PM EDT

need to post this in that other thread. else they won't see this.

Strange - this article cited as being from the Associated Press doesn't come up in a search for 'palestinian rocket' on the Associated press website:

Yep. I'm not finding anything else either. I smell a red herring.

need to post this in that other thread. else they won't see this.

I posted something about it in the other thread actually. I could post a link to this story too.

Strange - this article cited as being from the Associated Press doesn't come up in a search for 'palestinian rocket' on the Associated press website:

Because it isn't from the AP website. The AP is a news feed that is used by other agencies, like the Jerusalem Post. Not all of the stories via the AP feed are on the AP website.

Perhaps you should just follow the link, and deal with the fact that the Gaza explosion was caused by Palestinian terror, not those big bad Israelis.

Or do we have a double standard case?

I have a feeling they won't listen...

Because it isn't from the AP website. The AP is a news feed that is used by other agencies, like the Jerusalem Post. Not all of the stories via the AP feed are on the AP website.

Perhaps you should just follow the link, and deal with the fact that the Gaza explosion was caused by Palestinian terror, not those big bad Israelis.

Or do we have a double standard case?

No, it's because no-one can confirm the story as of yet. And the source you gave doesn't look to be the least biased of views.

And before you start whining about bias, I'm not. If this comes out in any major news agency, I'll accept it. Until then, I'll regard it with suspicion.

No, it's because no-one can confirm the story as of yet. And the source you gave doesn't look to be the least biased of views.

And before you start whining about bias, I'm not. If this comes out in any major news agency, I'll accept it. Until then, I'll regard it with suspicion.

Ah, so the AP hasn't confimed the news story, even though it has sent the feed to the Jerusalem Post, hmm...

And the AP isn't a major news agency? I see...

I think you're just confused because you don't know how news feeds work. You confuse the direct AP agency with the feeds it farms out, so when you see a feed on a foreign newspaper that doesn't occur on the AP website (like 80% of the actual news it handles doesn't) you go - ZOMG, its a fake news site! The AP noooo!

Ah, so the AP hasn't confimed the news story, even though it has sent the feed to the Jerusalem Post, hmm...

And the AP isn't a major news agency? I see...

I think you're just confused because you don't know how news feeds work. You confuse the direct AP agency with the feeds it farms out, so when you see a feed on a foreign newspaper that doesn't occur on the AP website (like 80% of the actual news it handles doesn't) you go - ZOMG, its a fake news site! The AP noooo!

Hmmm. Or it could be that no other news agency, such as CNN, BBC or even Fox have got this story or anything new on it. Thus, we only have one tiny report to go on with little detail. When the other major agencies start posting reports on it, then I'll believe it. It's the same thing I do with anyone citing news reports that no other major agency has reported on. Have done since Kievan-Prussia, and always will.

If Palestine did it, I will condemn them to the same extent I did Israel.

That out of the way, until I see a second source, I don't buy it.

Are you sure it's the same story? The article was extremely short, and didn't mention any fatalaties, nor the beach.

And this page (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1149572649819&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull) hasn't been updated with that information, only this:
The IDF concluded on Saturday that the explosion on a Gaza beach on the previous day was caused either by an accidental IDF shelling or by an internal Palestinian incident. Commander of Gaza Division Brig.-Gen. Aviv Kochavi said that there was mounting evidence supporting the latter option.

Edit: Seems to be different stories. The short article in the OP is about a blast on saturday, while the beach-incident was on friday.

Are you sure it's the same story? The article was extremely short, and didn't mention any fatalaties, nor the beach.

And this page (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1149572649819&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull) hasn't been updated with that information, only this:


Edit: Seems to be different stories. The short article in the OP is about a blast on saturday, while the beach-incident was on friday.

Its the same story. Keep in mind, this is just an excerpt from a news feed.

Does everyone know what that is? I'm starting to get the impression no.

Ever watch the news, CNN, etc? Know those little things that scroll across the bottom of the screen? Those are news feeds. They are short, give 'breaking news', and thus can't contain many details. In any case, we'll get the full story in some hours, at least in the Israeli papers. It wouldn't be any shock for Western papers to ignore it.

Its the same story. Keep in mind, this is just an excerpt from a news feed.

Does everyone know what that is? I'm starting to get the impression no.

Ever watch the news, CNN, etc? Know those little things that scroll across the bottom of the screen? Those are news feeds. They are short, give 'breaking news', and thus can't contain many details. In any case, we'll get the full story in some hours, at least in the Israeli papers. It wouldn't be any shock for Western papers to ignore it.
I know perfectly well what a newsfeed is. And I know perfectly well never to take one source in isolation. Surely you don't believe every story that the press tells you, without question, or looking for corroboration?

No, that refers to something else, most likely this (BBC: There were no Israeli reports of damage from the rockets, but one reportedly fell on Jabaliya refugee camp in northern Gaza.) The beach explosion was on friday.

It looks like an extrapolation of info taken from this http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1149572649819&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

story


They claim that it may have likely been an internal Palestinian matter...


The odd thinhg is isreal was condemned IMMEDIATELY for slaughtering these people .

Will the correction ...if it is shown to be a palestinian rocket or explosives..be just as fast ?

I know perfectly well what a newsfeed is. And I know perfectly well never to take one source in isolation. Surely you don't believe every story that the press tells you, without question, or looking for corroboration?

No, heaven forbid I believe things like... Israeli gunships blasted the Gaza beach, which was originally described by the Palestinians to mainstream media, toted around the BBC, Independent, etc. and then later demonstrated to be false.

I mean, while people may still dispute if Israel did it or not, we now know that it wasn't Israeli gunships as originally reported.

It just goes to show that the huge bias in the anti-Israeli media is not interested in finding out what really happened but garnering ratings and support. Yet, you had at on of corroboration there. On the other hand, I've been following this story in the Israeli media for the last 24 hours, and there is corraboration. All of the Israeli sources have been reporting on this to a very similiar vein:

Yedioth Ahronoth, Army: Gaza probe still open (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3261141,00.html)

"Gaza Division commander says investigation into Beit Lahiya deaths in blast have not been completed yet, states it is still possible Palestinians were behind blast. Army Chief Dan Halutz says 'voicing regret does not imply we are claiming responsibility'

Kohavi said that at this point, the army was still considering two possible explanations for the explosion: The first, that it was caused by a shell fired from the IDF battery stationed north of the Strip; the other- that this has been an intra-Palestinian affair. While refusing to elaborate on the subject, Kohavi hinted that the Palestinians themselves may have been behind the blast."

So really, this isn't just one spurious source out of the blue. The investigation has been all over the Israeli news for the last 24 hours, and this is what it was all leading up to, for those of us that cared to follow it.

TS: You're still not dealing with the fact this story deals with an explosion on Saturday; the beach shelling was on Friday. Your other sources are about an investigation ongoing into the Friday shelling. That's not corroboration...that's two different stories.

It looks like an extrapolation of info taken from this http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1149572649819&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

story


They claim that it may have likely been an internal Palestinian matter...


The odd thinhg is isreal was condemned IMMEDIATELY for slaughtering these people .

Will the correction ...if it is shown to be a palestinian rocket or explosives..be just as fast ?

No, in fact I think it was Thomas Friedman who wrote "If its the Israeli's fault, its the Israeli's fault, and if it's the Palestinian's fault, its the Israeli's fault." Palestinians have a long, long history of manipulating their own tragedies as propaganda against Israel.

In fact, the pro-Palestinian, anti-Israeli sentiments on this thread in contrast to those in the previous thread demonstrate this much.

I suspect this will go the way of the supposed Iranian "colour codes" story.
24-48 hours should be enough.

TS: You're still not dealing with the fact this story deals with an explosion on Saturday; the beach shelling was on Friday. Your other sources are about an investigation ongoing into the Friday shelling. That's not corroboration...that's two different stories.

O don't bother. Hes on a "can do no wrong" frenzy now and he takes ages to run out of shite. Don't worry, everybody and their pet parrot well be jack-booted pro-Arab anti-semites by the time hes finished.

No, in fact I think it was Thomas Friedman who wrote "If its the Israeli's fault, its the Israeli's fault, and if it's the Palestinian's fault, its the Israeli's fault." Palestinians have a long, long history of manipulating their own tragedies as propaganda against Israel.

In fact, the pro-Palestinian, anti-Israeli sentiments on this thread in contrast to those in the previous thread demonstrate this much.
Your article, your inflammatory title, has nothing to do with the shelling of Friday. Do you lack basic reading comprehension skills?

funny how there is no mention of this by reuters/CNN/BBC... only an article from jerusalem post which has as much credibility as FOX news.
Bring one independent source and i'm willing to appologize for being wrong!

Your article, your inflammatory title, has nothing to do with the shelling of Friday. Do you lack basic reading comprehension skills?

It does, except I'd say about half of the people on this line are so ignorant of Jewish culture you don't realize it. Your Western media has published it on Friday, without realizing that Shabbat (Saturday) begins in the afternoon (sundown, as determined by rabbinical authority, is often earlier than actual sundown) in Israel. If you read the YNet article I posted, it explictly refers to the Gaza beach explosion as happening on Saturday, while Western media like the BBC has stated it happened on Friday.

The fact of the matter is, it happened during Shabbat, and that often comes out as Saturday in English versions of Israeli newspapers. But I'm sure you all knew that, right? How many of you read Israeli papers on a regular basis? How many of you knew about Shabbat?

I'm guessing... zero.

funny how there is no mention of this by reuters/CNN/BBC... only an article from jerusalem post which has as much credibility as FOX news.
Bring one independent source and i'm willing to appologize for being wrong!

This Jerusalem Post got this excerpt from Associated Press, a news feed.

Is Associated Press an independent enough source for you? Ready to apologize now?

This Jerusalem Post got this excerpt from Associated Press, a news feed.

Is Associated Press an independent enough source for you? Ready to apologize now?

oh and AP only sent it to Jerusalem post and no one else?!
it's not even on the AP website so i guess no i'm not ready to apologize yet!

If you read the YNet article I posted, it explictly refers to the Gaza beach explosion as happening on Saturday, while Western media like the BBC has stated it happened on Friday.
No. The YNet article states the investigation was happening on Saturday; doesn't once say the beach explosion was either Friday or Saturday.

oh and AP only sent it to Jerusalem post and no one else?!
it's not even on the AP website so i guess no i'm not ready to apologize yet!

Why would it be on the AP website? AP doesn't put any of its newsfeeds on its website, just like Reuters doesn't put any of its newsfeeds on its website.

[quote]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5067414.stm[quote]

Why dont you show where Israel was proven to have caused the explosion ?

So far every article I have read has showed that it was far from a sure thing .

Yet YOU decided Isreal massacred Palestinians ......:rolleyes:

At least the Israelis said " it may be possible , we have to look into it "...

Instead of jumping to conclusions .

The only FACT is that a bunch of people died on the beach .

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1149572649819&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,198951,00.html

No. The YNet article states the investigation was happening on Saturday; doesn't once say the beach explosion was either Friday or Saturday.

Alright, I'll break it down carefully.

Is everybody aware that it is currently Sunday in Israel, around 1 am?

Is everyone aware that the YNet article was posted approximately an hour ago?

Is everyone aware that the YNet article states that the Gaza beach explosion happened 24 hours ago?

And is everyone aware that Shabbat, in Israel, starts in what the West views as Friday afternoon?

Do the math; it occured during Shabbat (Saturday).

Do the math
I can't, because I can't use the figure "More than 24 hours". That means it could have been Friday, could have been Saturday.

[quote]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5067414.stm[quote]

Why dont you show where Israel was proven to have caused the explosion ?

So far every article I have read has showed that it was far from a sure thing .

Yet YOU decided Isreal massacred Palestinians ......:rolleyes:

At least the Israelis said " it may be possible , we have to look into it "...

Instead of jumping to conclusions .

The only FACT is that a bunch of people died on the beach .

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1149572649819&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,198951,00.html

You know whats worse? Hamas has used this as an excuse to resume terror attacks against Israel. It declared that it was breaking its truce and launched a few qassam rockets into Israel as a symbolic gesture of that fact.

And yet, there was never any real evidence Israel did anything.

What is this nonsense?

You're a liar, this does not refer to what you claim it does.

People like you give the israelis a bad name.

What is this nonsense?

You're a liar, this does not refer to what you claim it does.

People like you give the israelis a bad name.

Read through the thread before you assume something like this.

[QUOTE=Ultraextreme Sanity][quote]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5067414.stm

You know whats worse? Hamas has used this as an excuse to resume terror attacks against Israel. It declared that it was breaking its truce and launched a few qassam rockets into Israel as a symbolic gesture of that fact.

And yet, there was never any real evidence Israel did anything.

Don't worry, no one cares about what happens to the Israelies here....

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1149572652453&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

"Defense Minister Amir Peretz on Saturday expressed his condolences to Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas for the explosion of an IDF artillery shell on a Gaza beach on Friday that left seven civilians dead.

Peretz said that the defense ministry would do all that was in its power to prevent the recurrence of any such act."



I guess you know better than the israeli defense minister, dont you, you liar.

Furthermore, this (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1149572649819&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull) JPost article refers to the shelling happening on Friday. I don't believe they would violate their own house style.

Sorry, it refers to a different explosion.

Article one:
A Palestinian rocket that went off prematurely caused an explosion Saturday in the northern Gaza Strip, Palestinian security officials said
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1149572653727
(Posted Jun. 10, 2006 22:07)

Article two:
The IDF concluded on Saturday that the explosion on a Gaza beach on the previous day was caused either by an accidental IDF shelling or by an internal Palestinian incident. Commander of Gaza Division Brig.-Gen. Aviv Kochavi said that there was mounting evidence supporting the latter option.

...

The deadly incident occurred on Friday evening on a crowded Gaza beach in between Sudaniya and Beit Lahiya, causing the death of seven civilians, including a 4-year-old girl, a year-old baby, and a 5-month-old infant. Six of the dead belonged to the Ghalia family from Gaza. 30-40 Palestinians were wounded in the blast.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1149572649819&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
(Updated Jun. 11, 2006 0:00)

So how confused is the Jerusalem Post then? Or maybe it is two different incidents?

It does, except I'd say about half of the people on this line are so ignorant of Jewish culture you don't realize it. .

Really? .......I suppose you would be a bit more familiar - having just learnt it, now that you bring up the fact.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1149572652453&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

"Defense Minister Amir Peretz on Saturday expressed his condolences to Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas for the explosion of an IDF artillery shell on a Gaza beach on Friday that left seven civilians dead.

Peretz said that the defense ministry would do all that was in its power to prevent the recurrence of any such act.

I guess you know better than the israeli defense minister, dont you, you liar.

Amir Peretz never claimed responsibility for this action. If you've been keeping up with Israeli news (which you obviously havn't) you'd know this:

Halutz regrets beach deaths, doesn't take credit (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1149572653545)

Chief of General Staff Lt.-Gen. Dan Halutz expressed regret Saturday for the killing of eight Palestinian civilians in Gaza, but stopped short of taking responsibility for the incident, saying an investigation was ongoing.

All Peretz did was express condolances. Not once did Israel claim responsibility for these actions. In fact, Israel even rushed all of the wounded to an Israeli hospital for the best medical treatment in the Middle East. But if you were keeping up with this story, and all of the articles posted in this thread, you'd realize that an Israeli investigation has been ongoing and that its been seeming for some time that this was the fault of the Palestinians:

Army: Gaza probe still open (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3261141,00.html)

"Kohavi said that at this point, the army was still considering two possible explanations for the explosion: The first, that it was caused by a shell fired from the IDF battery stationed north of the Strip; the other- that this has been an intra-Palestinian affair. While refusing to elaborate on the subject, Kohavi hinted that the Palestinians themselves may have been behind the blast."

I wonder why the anti-Israeli crowd thinks that if Peretz is sympathetic for Palestinians that it implies that Israel is at fault?

[QUOTE=Ultraextreme Sanity][quote]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5067414.stm

You know whats worse? Hamas has used this as an excuse to resume terror attacks against Israel. It declared that it was breaking its truce and launched a few qassam rockets into Israel as a symbolic gesture of that fact.

And yet, there was never any real evidence Israel did anything.


No evidence except for israel's admittance that it was responsible and israel's appology.

Go lie to people somewhere else.

Israel screwed up big time blowing up all those children, and a lot of people on both sides are going to suffer for it.

Article one:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1149572653727
(Posted Jun. 10, 2006 22:07)

Article two:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1149572649819&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
(Updated Jun. 11, 2006 0:00)

So how confused is the Jerusalem Post then? Or maybe it is two different incidents?

it's two different incidents, after the events on friday hamas broke the truce with israel and ON SATURDAY hamas fired rockets on israel and one of them fell in gaza

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/world/middleeast/11mideast.html?hp&ex=1149998400&en=b14d573727e323cd&ei=5094&partner=homepage

On Friday, the Israeli Army was shelling a target area popular with rocket launchers 400 yards from the beach. The army believes that a shell fell short or that a dud, previously fired, exploded.

So how confused is the Jerusalem Post then? Or maybe it is two different incidents?

Did I not just explain that Friday evening is Shabbat? Is that really too difficult to grasp?

I think I also explained that you will get English versions of Israeli newspapers recording events happening on Friday evening as happening on Saturday, due to that fact. Its especially evident depending on who writes the article.

So, how often do you read Israeli news? And how familiar are you with Shabbat?

So, how often do you read Israeli news? And how familiar are you with Shabbat?

O dig out your notes and educate us all. You know you want to.

I think I also explained that you will get English versions of Israeli newspapers recording events happening on Friday evening as happening on Saturday, due to that fact. Its especially evident depending on who writes the article.
So why does the Jerusalem Post record the beach shelling as happening on Friday, and the explosion in your original link on Saturday?

Haaretz online banner headline: "Police on high alert after IDF shell kills seven"

Did I not just explain that Friday evening is Shabbat? Is that really too difficult to grasp?

I think I also explained that you will get English versions of Israeli newspapers recording events happening on Friday evening as happening on Saturday, due to that fact. Its especially evident depending on who writes the article.

So, how often do you read Israeli news? And how familiar are you with Shabbat?

dude stop inventing stories for god's sake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
israel fired on the beach on friday and then on saturday hamas fired rockets on israel and one of them fell in gaza!!!!!!!
u can twist facts all you wants, the fact is one article says friday the other says saturday!

So why does the Jerusalem Post record the beach shelling as happening on Friday, and the explosion in your original link on Saturday?

Are you ignoring the fact that Friday evening is Shabbat on purpose? I'm not sure how much more clearly I can explain to you what I already have.

You're avoiding my questions, though. I wonder why?

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArtVty.jhtml?sw=rocket+explosion&itemNo=724811

From the main article on the gaza shelling:

"The order was given as officers have 90 warnings of terror attacks vowing to avenge the killing of seven Palestinian civilians on a Gaza Strip beach on Friday
[...]


IDF sources said most of the rockets appeared to have landed inside the Gaza Strip. In the Jabalya refugee camp, five Palestinians were injured on Saturday when a Qassam meant for Israel landed in the camp instead."



Go lie to people somewhere else. Shame on you.

Are you ignoring the fact that Friday evening is Shabbat on purpose? I'm not sure how much more clearly I can explain to you what I already have.

You're avoiding my questions, though. I wonder why?


Hey liar, check out the article on haaretz online front page, it says the rocket attacks were seperate from the shelling.

Ok liar? going to do that liar?

dude stop inventing stories for god's sake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
israel fired on the beach on friday and then on saturday hamas fired rockets on israel and one of them fell in gaza!!!!!!!
u can twist facts all you wants, the fact is one article says friday the other says saturday!

Actually none of the stories say that Israel "fired on the beach." That was the original report given by the Palestinians, which was later retracted when it was discovered that no gunships were even at sea during that time period.

But instead of arguing with everyone over a news feed, I'll just wait until the Israeli papers publish the full editorials of the investigation. You can all ignore the ones that stated that the investigation "hinted that the Palestinians themselves may have been behind the blast" (YNet) and continue to pretend that Israelis did it.

Actually none of the stories say that Israel "fired on the beach." That was the original report given by the Palestinians, which was later retracted when it was discovered that no gunships were even at sea during that time period.



yeah right no one said israel fired on the beach except BBC/CNN/Reuters and every single respectable newspaper :headbang:

Israel: PA not cooperating in Gaza incident probe



IDF sources say Palestinians have not disclosed information regarding exact location, time of explosion that killed seven civilians on north Gaza beach; ‘this makes it very difficult to form clear picture of what happened,’ source says
Hanan Greenberg




IDF sources said Saturday that the Palestinians are not cooperating in the investigation of the Gaza beach incident , during which seven civilians were killed.




Gaza Division Commander Brigadier General Aviv Kochavi is heading the IDF investigation.



The sources said the Palestinians have not disclosed information regarding the explosion’s exact location .





The army is looking into the possibility that an IDF artillery shell strayed from its course for some reason and has therefore asked the Palestinians for specific data that may help it reach definitive conclusions.



It should be noted that over the years the Palestinians have repeatedly refused to disclosing information following incidents in which Palestinians had been injured, making it difficult for Military Police to carry out detailed investigations.



“There were several incidents in which the IDF closed its investigations although it was clear that had the Palestinians disclosed information it may have changed the entire picture,” a military source said.



“In this case, we do not hold specific information regarding the types of injuries incurred by the Palestinians in the incident, which make it very difficult to form a clear picture of what happened.”



Investigators are not ruling out the possibility that the incident was the tragic result of a stray Qassam rocket that was fired by Palestinian terrorists.



“We have seen such cases in the past, and also other cases in which a dud exploded when Palestinians handled it, so everything is being examined,” the source said.



Injured Palestinian boy transferred to Israeli hospital



Earlier Southern Command Chief Yoav Galant said the incident took place in close proximity to the area in which the former Dugit settlement was located - an area used by terror cells to fire Qassam rockets at Israel.




“We did not open fire toward the (Gaza beach) area, so it may have been a stray artillery shell,” he said. “We must also look into the possibility that the blast was caused by Palestinians who set off a bomb or dud.”



Defense Minister Amir Peretz has relayed a personal message to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas Saturday, expressing his deep regret over Friday’s explosion at a Gaza beach, during which seven Palestinians were killed.




Peretz said the security establishment would do everything in its power to prevent the recurrence of such incidents in the future and offered Israel’s assistance to the Palestinians. The defense minister stressed that the Qassam terror cells are the main cause for the attacks on Gaza, adding that he expects the Palestinian Authority to take action against them.



Adam Ralia, the 9-year-old boy who was injured during Friday’s explosion on a Gaza beach, was transferred to the Soroka Medical Center in Beer Sheva for treatment, in accordance with Defense Minister Amir Peretz and IDF Chief of Staff Dan Halutz’s proposal to assist the Palestinians in dealing with the incident.



The IDF allowed the boy’s uncle to accompany him to the hospital.



(06.10.06, 11:31)


http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3260996,00.html

Actually none of the stories say that Israel "fired on the beach." That was the original report given by the Palestinians, which was later retracted when it was discovered that no gunships were even at sea during that time period.

But instead of arguing with everyone over a news feed, I'll just wait until the Israeli papers publish the full editorials of the investigation. You can all ignore the ones that stated that the investigation "hinted that the Palestinians themselves may have been behind the blast" (YNet) and continue to pretend that Israelis did it.


Except the gunships which the IDF says were shelling an area 400 yards away?

Whats with you and lying?

Isnt part of jewish culture not to lie about things?

Are you ignoring the fact that Friday evening is Shabbat on purpose? I'm not sure how much more clearly I can explain to you what I already have.

You're avoiding my questions, though. I wonder why?
No, I'm not. I'll restate my point.

JPost says the beach shelling happened on Friday.
JPost says the explosion caused by Palestinians happened on Saturday.

All I'm doing is asking you to explain the dichotomy. The Shabbat is insufficient explanation, given neither JPost story mentions it.

And just to clarify: if it was done by Israel, they suck; if it was done by Palestine, they suck. I don't care which of them did; I'm not "anti-Palestinian" or "anti-Israeli": I'm "anti-civilian-deaths".

Army: Gaza probe still open



Gaza Division commander says investigation into Beit Lahiya deaths in blast have not been completed yet, states it is still possible Palestinians were behind blast. Army Chief Dan Halutz says 'voicing regret does not imply we are claiming responsibility'
Hanan Greenberg



More than 24 hours after the killing of seven civilians on Gaza's beach, the IDF has still not reached final conclusions regarding the incident.



Defense Minister Amir Peretz commented on the events for the first time Saturday evening, saying that: "I have conveyed a personal message to Mahmoud Abbas today, and expressed my deepest regrets. I also beseeched him to do whatever he can to prevent escalation in the region. We do not want an escalation. This is a defense minister who considers peace the only path."


http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3261141,00.html



'Palestinians may have been behind blast'



Throughout the day, an inquiry into the killing was carried out, headed by commander of the Gaza Division, Brigadier-General Aviv Kohavi. According to Kohavi, the area where the Palestinian family was hit has been used by terror and Qassam squads in the last 10 months to fire rockets at Israel.



"These are completely open areas, to which we aim our artillery," he said.



Kohavi said that at this point, the army was still considering two possible explanations for the explosion: The first, that it was caused by a shell fired from the IDF battery stationed north of the Strip; the other- that this has been an intra-Palestinian affair. While refusing to elaborate on the subject, Kohavi hinted that the Palestinians themselves may have been behind the blast.



"We are conducting a very thorough investigation. We approached the Palestinians and asked for missing information, but did not get any cooperation," he stated.



Halutz: We are not claiming responsibility yet



IDF officials said Saturday that even if it turns out eventually that the civilians' death was the result of army artillery , the strike took place in open areas where the Palestinian know that movement is banned. Therefore, they said, this is the unfortunate result of the ongoing war on terror, not an operational failure. However, the army wishes to investigate the incident in order to draw conclusions for the future

The universal translator is most useful tool...



But instead of arguing with everyone over a news feed,.

(Now that I've been caught by the bollix lying...)


I'll just wait until the Israeli papers publish the full editorials of the investigation.
.

(...I'll skulk off.)


You can all ignore the ones that stated that the investigation "hinted that the Palestinians themselves may have been behind the blast" (YNet) and continue to pretend that Israelis did it.

(By the way. you are all anti-semite Nazi-ists.)

yeah right no one said israel fired on the beach except BBC/CNN/Reuters and every single respectable newspaper :headbang:

Nope, none of them did. What they said was that there was an explosion on a beach in Gaza that killed some people. There is no knowledge yet of how it happend. Although since there were no Isralie battleships in the area I think its fair to say it wasnt the Isralie navy.

A Navy investigation into the incident found that Israeli vessels did not open fire on the Gaza beach area, and a similar Air Force investigation came to the same conclusions, thus strengthening the assumption that it was IDF artillery batteries positioned near Gaza that were behind the deadly attack.



'We will know how to hurt those who hurt us'



Galant added that the incident took place in close proximity to the area in which the former Dugit settlement was located - an area used by terror cells to fire Qassam rockets at Israel.




“We did not open fire toward the (Gaza beach) area, so it may have been a stray artillery shell,” he said. “We must also look into the possibility that the blast was caused by Palestinians who set off a bomb or dud.”


http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3260958,00.html

Look, none of you actually know at all so stop pretending that you no for a fact that it was the Israelies when even the investigators think it may have been Palastine.

Also, I am apauled at the lack of cooperation between hamas and the investigators.

Look, none of you actually know at all so stop pretending that you no for a fact that it was the Israelies when even the investigators think it may have been Palastine.
Agreed. We should withhold blame until the facts are more verifiable.

That means no jumping to the conclusion the Friday shelling was by the Israelis, and it means no jumping to the conclusion it was by the Palestinians. Seem fair?

Agreed. We should withhold blame until the facts are more verifiable.

That means no jumping to the conclusion the Friday shelling was by the Israelis, and it means no jumping to the conclusion it was by the Palestinians. Seem fair?

Quite

Agreed. We should withhold blame until the facts are more verifiable.

That means no jumping to the conclusion the Friday shelling was by the Israelis, and it means no jumping to the conclusion it was by the Palestinians. Seem fair?

Yeah that seems fair, allthough I do feel that it is corrupt for the Palestinians to use this as an excuse to encourage more terror and that they are refusing to cooperate with the investigators.

It does, except I'd say about half of the people on this line are so ignorant of Jewish culture you don't realize it. Your Western media has published it on Friday, without realizing that Shabbat (Saturday) begins in the afternoon (sundown, as determined by rabbinical authority, is often earlier than actual sundown) in Israel. If you read the YNet article I posted, it explictly refers to the Gaza beach explosion as happening on Saturday, while Western media like the BBC has stated it happened on Friday.

The fact of the matter is, it happened during Shabbat, and that often comes out as Saturday in English versions of Israeli newspapers. But I'm sure you all knew that, right? How many of you read Israeli papers on a regular basis? How many of you knew about Shabbat?

I'm guessing... zero.
The beeb disagrees, reporting that the accident with the rockets happened on saturday, and the shelling on friday. Try again.

when it happened not withstanding... both sides cannot claim innocence on this until the investigation is over.

before you claim that the PA is innocent, I've read articles that say the PA is not helping with the investigation into this. and didn't they send kids with toy guns to the wall to "test" the IDF.

Isreal isn't Innocent either. So let's just wait till the investigation is done.

Did I not just explain that Friday evening is Shabbat? Is that really too difficult to grasp?

I think I also explained that you will get English versions of Israeli newspapers recording events happening on Friday evening as happening on Saturday, due to that fact. Its especially evident depending on who writes the article.

So, how often do you read Israeli news? And how familiar are you with Shabbat?
I'll refer you to Gruenberg, who is asking the same question I am:

JPost says the beach shelling happened on Friday.
JPost says the explosion caused by Palestinians happened on Saturday.

All I'm doing is asking you to explain the dichotomy. The Shabbat is insufficient explanation, given neither JPost story mentions it.

I'm sure everyone has been keeping up with the thread called "New israel massacre", which followed the original reporting that the Israel Defese Forces shelled a Gaza beach, killing seven (or twelve, depending on the source) Palestinians. The original claim from the Palestinians was that it was an Israeli gunship, which was disproven. Then the IDF began an investigation and found the following:

The Gaza beach explosion was not a result of Israeli shelling, but of a Palestinian rocket that misfired. Both Israeli and Palestinian sources have concured on this fact:

Misfiring of Palestinian rocket causes Gaza blast (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1149572653727)



Now we just get to wait and see how many of the people condeming Israel will come to this thread and condemn Palestine. Its only fair, now that we found out the truth, isn't it?

THE PALISTINIANS ARE OUT OF CONTROL!11!!!!111!! OH NOESS1111!!!!!111!!!!1!!!

:headbang:



:D

I guess that absolves Israel of this one.

I guess that absolves Israel of this one.
You guess wrong... So far...

You guess wrong... So far...

Excuse me what? Israel had nothing to do with this so what are you smoking?

Excuse me what? Israel had nothing to do with this so what are you smoking?
The blast on friday or the blast on saturday?

Have you looked through the thread, by the way?

The blast on friday or the blast on saturday?

The blast we are talking about now.

The blast we are talking about now.
Well, that's the problem. There are two. The one on friday is still under investigation, the one on saturday the Israelis had nothing to do with.

Oh and Gravlan? can you actually read? I said "well that absolves Israel of THIS ONE"!

I hope your comprehension is able to show you what I ment.

Oh and Gravlan? can you actually read? I said "well that absolves Israel of THIS ONE"!

I hope your comprehension is able to show you what I ment.
If you meant the Gaza beach one, then you are wrong.

This (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1149572653727) refers to a second incident.
Edit: The incident that took place on saturday, not on friday.

This story you made up is a load of bullshit. The fact is the Israelis are terrorists and shelled innocent women and children trying to enjoy a day on the beach. There's no defence for those "people" or the state of "Israel" so stop trying with your silly thread.

I'm sure everyone has been keeping up with the thread called "New israel massacre", which followed the original reporting that the Israel Defese Forces shelled a Gaza beach, killing seven (or twelve, depending on the source) Palestinians. The original claim from the Palestinians was that it was an Israeli gunship, which was disproven. Then the IDF began an investigation and found the following:

The Gaza beach explosion was not a result of Israeli shelling, but of a Palestinian rocket that misfired. Both Israeli and Palestinian sources have concured on this fact:

Misfiring of Palestinian rocket causes Gaza blast (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1149572653727)



Now we just get to wait and see how many of the people condeming Israel will come to this thread and condemn Palestine. Its only fair, now that we found out the truth, isn't it?
So the Israelis accuse the Palestinians of doing it and the Palestinians accuse Israelis of doing it. I don't see your point. Maybe you should try something new, like having Russia accuse Spain of doing it.

This story you made up is a load of bullshit. The fact is the Israelis are terrorists and shelled innocent women and children trying to enjoy a day on the beach. There's no defence for those "people" or the state of "Israel" so stop trying with your silly thread.


Sounds like some Palistinians got their co-ords wrong. We sure know they don't have a problem with striking innnocents!

Honestly, I don't care who did either incident, they were terrible tragedies. However, it's amazing to me that one can read the articles and pretend like this article is talking about the Friday incident. It is so clearly two incidents. Even more amusing, Then the same person claims that the Minister never took responsiblity for the Friday incident by quoting SOMEONE ELSE not taking responsiblity. I'm going to start proving what GWB has said by quoting Lewis Black. Clearly, little things like a logical connection of evidence has no bearing to some people.

I'm not doubting the possiblity, but the Jerusalem post is obviously a Jewish Newspaper in Israel. So it's a Bias newpaper. So you know they could be lying.

It's like how Fox News is for this US Adminstraton. Can't really take what they say as the truth anymore.

I'm sure everyone has been keeping up with the thread called "New israel massacre", which followed the original reporting that the Israel Defese Forces shelled a Gaza beach, killing seven (or twelve, depending on the source) Palestinians. The original claim from the Palestinians was that it was an Israeli gunship, which was disproven. Then the IDF began an investigation and found the following:

Sure, lets count on the IDF to be completely non-partisan and convey the truth!! THAT MAKES THIS BELIEVABLE.

Maybe they'll figure out "Death to Israel" is a stupid idea...

Sounds like some Palistinians got their co-ords wrong. We sure know they don't have a problem with striking innnocents!


No, that hasnt been established at all.

This story you made up is a load of bullshit. The fact is the Israelis are terrorists and shelled innocent women and children trying to enjoy a day on the beach. There's no defence for those "people" or the state of "Israel" so stop trying with your silly thread.

Apparently NOT according to PALESTINIAN SOURCES! For heavens sake, actually read.

Apparently NOT according to PALESTINIAN SOURCES! For heavens sake, actually read.
Yes, you should try it. Or find a new article from today containing this new information, perhaps?
(CNN) -- Israel's prime minister on Sunday expressed regret over the deaths of seven members of a family at a Gaza beach on Friday that Palestinians say was caused by Israeli shelling.
Seems the palestinians still think it was Israeli...
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/11/olmert.gaza/index.html

Olmert's words came as the IDF continued its investigation into the cause of the explosion that killed seven Palestinians on a Gaza beach on Friday, with the initial assumption being that an errant artillery shell was to blame, Defense Minister Amir Peretz said Saturday night that it was possible the blast was an "internal Palestinian incident."

IDF officers said that an "internal Palestinian incident" referred to the possibility that terrorists had fired a Kassam rocket which went off target and hit the crowded Gaza beach between Sudaniya and Beit Lahiya. Still, although Israel had yet to take responsibility for the incident as of Saturday night, one officer thought that a shell fired by IDF artillery cannons was the likeliest cause.
Investegation is continuing...
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1149572658286&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

TS has tried a textbook 1984 cloak and daggers attempt to just confuse the issue enough to sow a seed of doubt about who fired what and it wont wash

Friday, an IDF artillary shell killed 7 civilians.

Saturday Hamas, understandably, declare an end to their ceasefire and lauch rockets at Israel, some of which fall short remaining in Gaza.

TS takes quotes about the second incident and applies them to the first hoping to confuse just enough to exconerate the IDF. and then hints at those of us with enough crital facilities to question this orwellian use of facts as anti-semites.

No

From Haaretz:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=725145&contrassID=1&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=0

"The findings, submitted by the panel to the defense minister on Saturday evening, point to IDF shelling as the cause of the blast. Of six shells fired in the area, said Peretz, the landing site of one remained unaccounted for. "

"Conversely, the odds that a Qassam rocket caused such extensive damage appear extremely slim."