NationStates Jolt Archive

take your pick on what is worse

Hitler himself as the man and his ideas

or

the Nazi political party

is it worse to be compared to Hitler or being called a Nazi?

The Nazis from what I've come to understand was just a sort of party for labor unions when it first started out. Hitler was the main guy who turned it into what it came to become.

The party was, in some ways, an extension of Hitler. However, I think it's worse being called a Nazi, for they were (mostly) mindless, uneducated rubble. Comparisons to Hitler are usually applied to bossy (even fascist) people, rather than those who ascribe to Nazi values. The distinction is odd. Some in the party, like Himmler, were actually worse than Hitler. So I will go with the party. Hitler had some good aspects to him, the party next to none, other than some benefits it brought to post-Weimar Germany.

Well that's an ugly choice to have to make. But I think I would rather be compared to Hitler, because I would at least then be compared to an important historical figure, and not to some nameless party thug.

There can't be one without the other.

NATIONAL-SOCIALISM is OK. Hitler was great man, but misguided.

Nazis probably wouldn't have been organised without Hitler, and almost certainly wouldn't have had the same policies, imho.

Nazi's

Hitler was a single man, in a party of millions, who more-or-less belived the same things that he did

The Nazi party was worse than Hitler. It is better to be the one in control of the minds of millions than to be one of the millions of mindless drones.

Hard to pick here. The Nazi party was an extension of Hitler's insanity.

However, I will say that Hitler/Nazi's are worse than ordinary fascists. A fascist government is extreme, true, but not necessarily to the psycho status of the Third Reich.

The Nazi party was worse than Hitler. It is better to be the one in control of the minds of millions than to be one of the millions of mindless drones.

It's worse knowing you're doing something terible than following people you believe in and brainlessly do what they are saying. And not al nazi's where murders by actions.

Not all Nazis were evil.
Some were just Germans getting involved in the war, defending their homeland.
What's wrong with that?

Not all Nazis were evil.
Some were just Germans getting involved in the war, defending their homeland.
What's wrong with that?

The wrong part is that they didn't stop the evil in their own country. Yeah not all nazi's where evil but all people fueling an evil machine are partly responsible for that machine. Btw not all germans where nazi's

The wrong part is that they didn't stop the evil in their own country. Yeah not all nazi's where evil but all people fueling an evil machine are partly responsible for that machine. Btw not all germans where nazi's

Uh, just because they were part of Germany's army doesn't mean they were fueling evil.
The same could be said about somebody living in America, they are economically contributing to America's invasions, right?

Would you rather die because of a brain tumor or of colon cancer?

Just to clarify, not EVERY one was a Nazi...

There was the Nazi party who ran everything, and then there was the Wehrmacht,aka the army.

Hitler.
It was his ideas in Mein Kampf that insipired people like Himmler,and the evil that spawned from men like that.

Uh, just because they were part of Germany's army doesn't mean they were fueling evil.
The same could be said about somebody living in America, they are economically contributing to America's invasions, right?

Nope paying taxes isn't a crime because they are used for good stuff also. But ellecting people who say that they will exterminate other people with the money you are going to give them is. So is supporting people who are doing so.

Why do we automatically assume Hitler is the most evil man who ever lived?

Do we so soon forget Josef Stalin...

Stalin killed more people than Hitler ever did before WW2 even STARTED.

He deliberately starved entire villiages for economic benefit.

He instituted paranoid political purges that included 12 year old children.

By no means am i saying that how evil a man is should be based solely on body count, but lets not forget Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot etc.

Why do we automatically assume Hitler is the most evil man who ever lived?

Do we so soon forget Josef Stalin...

Stalin killed more people than Hitler ever did before WW2 even STARTED.

He deliberately starved entire villiages for economic benefit.

He instituted paranoid political purges that included 12 year old children.

By no means am i saying that how evil a man is should be based solely on body count, but lets not forget Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot etc.

There being eviler men makes Hitler no less evil.

And Hitler definetly is one of the worse men in history.

I think the Schutzstaffel was worse than either.

Would you rather die because of a brain tumor or of colon cancer?

Brain tumor. Going crazy might be ok, and they make drugs for the headaches. But shitting myself to death...I'll pass.

NATIONAL-SOCIALISM is OK.

No it isn't! You suck! and so on.

NATIONAL-SOCIALISM is OK. Hitler was great man, but misguided.

I'm going to take a wild swing at this...


NO. No, it really isn't. And Hitler was one of the most eil men in history. Only revisionist historians and neonazis would argue otherwise.

I'm going to take a wild swing at this...


NO. No, it really isn't. And Hitler was one of the most eil men in history. Only revisionist historians and neonazis would argue otherwise.
Hitler was great man, you and i can only like or hate that fact. He was evil, but only because he was misguided.

No it isn't! You suck! and so on.
Behave!

Hitler was great man, you and i can only like or hate that fact. He was evil, but only because he was misguided.

This should be good. So, come on then, why was Hitler a great man?

Nazis are worse because Hittler may have been a complete screw head but he also was a war hero and we cant forget that......

This should be good. So, come on then, why was Hitler a the fact that he was Evil. Long time after you and i turn in to the fertiliser people will know who Hitler was.

That's your argument? Fame makes someone great?

This should be good. So, come on then, why was Hitler a great man?
Long time after you and i turn in to the fertiliser people will know who Hitler was.

That's your argument? Fame makes someone great?
Yup!

Yup!

...


Well, at least you didn't try and claim it was because he tried to kill the Jews/Communist/Gypsies or destroy the Slavs. I guess that's a point in your favour.

...


Well, at least you didn't try and claim it was because he tried to kill the Jews/Communist/Gypsies or destroy the Slavs. I guess that's a point in your favour.
No. That was his mistake. Instead to enlist all that people in to the German army he tried to kill them. Eventualy that brought disaster to his people.

Problem is, some kids from future will confuse him with Alexander the Great or Cesar and then he will take an place in history where he doesn't belong.

Hittler may have been a phsyco but so are the people who follow him.... And Stalin was much worse I myself am a communist and I know this.....
Plus Hittler was a war hero...

take your pick on what is worse

Hitler himself as the man and his ideas

or

the Nazi political party

is it worse to be compared to Hitler or being called a Nazi?

Both are terrible. How can you choose which is worse?

The Nazi party ideals and Hitler's ideals were the same thing. The Nazi party was Hitler's party (after he "stole" it) and he formed it into a mirror of what he believed.

Hittler may have been a phsyco but so are the people who follow him.... And Stalin was much worse I myself am a communist and I know this.....
Plus Hittler was a war hero...

Call yourself a communist and then call somebody a war hero?

edit: I agree with the guy above me. Calling somebody a nazi or calling somebody hitler's pretty much the same damn thing.

Plus Hittler was a war hero...

How was Hitler a war hero?

WW2 was the ultimate irony in the past century.
Fighting to stop the holocaust.
While doing so, at the homefront Canada rounded up all Japanese people, had them publicly ridiculed, stuffed them into unsanitary trains and forced them all into abandoned mining towns that had been converted into internment camps.
If they refused they were killed.

So I refuse to vote, the entire world had turned to mass bigotry.

Plus Hittler was a war hero...

he apparently got the iron cross, though this may have been a rumor put about to get him elected

Not all Nazis were evil.
Some were just Germans getting involved in the war, defending their homeland.
What's wrong with that?

You could be in the German Army without being a Nazi.
In fact, these days that's a REQUIREMENT. :D

he apparently got the iron cross, though this may have been a rumor put about to get him elected

Hitler was a runner in WW1 (Relaying information between base camp, front lines, etc)
He receieved the iron cross but then again, so did many, many, many Germans - it was handed out like candy.
Who recommended him for an iron cross? A jewish lieutenant.

Who recommended him for an iron cross? A jewish lieutenant.

that ungrateful little...

I'd say it'd be worse to be compared with Hitler. Besides being completely insane, he was addicted to amphetamines, supposedly had syphilis, and had parkinsons disease in his later years. Not all Nazi's were terrible people, up until Hitler took control of the Nazi party it was just a socialist workers party. Also it can be argued alot of soldiers fighting for the Nazi's didnt 100% believe in the Nazi philosophy. Many were fighting purely to defend their homeland or were forced to fight.

Hitler was a runner in WW1 (Relaying information between base camp, front lines, etc)
He receieved the iron cross but then again, so did many, many, many Germans - it was handed out like candy.
Who recommended him for an iron cross? A jewish lieutenant.

True. Kaiser Bill did cheapen his own decorations... Iron Cross 2nd class was almost a given if you served for a year.
(I think that's why they STILL don't hand out the Blue Max.)

NAZI is just a party. Hitler introduce racism and all that to it after he joined it.

NAZI is just a party. Hitler introduce racism and all that to it after he joined it.
Bullshit.

Bullshit.
Nope. The Nazi party began as just a socialist workers party. The Aryan supremecy crap became part of the Nazi ideology when Hitler became the leader of the Nazi party.

Nope. The Nazi party began as just a socialist workers party. The Aryan supremecy crap became part of the Nazi ideology when Hitler became the leader of the Nazi party.
He might have taken advantage of it, but it was there already. No-one in 2006 is going to convince me the Nazi Party were babes-in-the-woods 'til the inhuman Hitler-beast reared its' ugly head.

No sale.

Hitler and Nazi are evil because they lost the war, had he won he would be remembered as a hero and a great man. The world isn't black or white it's grey.
To further elaborate to avoid confusion my point is simply that discussions about what is right and wrong are mostly pointless as it comes down on zeitgeist, which changes over time.

Hitler and Nazi are evil because they lost the war, had he won he would be remembered as a hero and a great man. The world isn't black or white it's grey.

Great men don't commit acts of Genocide.

You'll have to try an awful lot harder than that.

No sale, kids.

No-one in 2006 is going to convince me the Nazi Party were babes-in-the-woods 'til the inhuman Hitler-beast reared its' ugly head.
Mmmkay. Wont waste my time.

Mmmkay. Wont waste my time.
Best you don't.

Why do people think Hitler joined the DAP if it didn't already in some aspects coincide with his existing belief system?

Die fuhrer ist sehr schlect
aber die Nazis ist zo lala

I'd say it'd be worse to be compared with Hitler. Besides being completely insane, he was addicted to amphetamines, supposedly had syphilis, and had parkinsons disease in his later years. Not all Nazi's were terrible people, up until Hitler took control of the Nazi party it was just a socialist workers party. Also it can be argued alot of soldiers fighting for the Nazi's didnt 100% believe in the Nazi philosophy. Many were fighting purely to defend their homeland or were forced to fight.
Don't forget he was being injected with meth by his personal doctor. I learned that on the history channel. :D

Great men don't commit acts of Genocide.

You'll have to try an awful lot harder than that.

No sale, kids.

"History is written by the victors" - Winston Churchill, no mor explanation is needed methinks.

That's your argument? Fame makes someone great?

great: adj.

9. Powerful; influential

look it up on dictionary.com

Great men don't commit acts of Genocide.

You'll have to try an awful lot harder than that.

No sale, kids.

HA! your a bit like a nazi against nazism, so really we should be calling you a nazi:D

seriously don't hate hatred, it REALLY doesn't help, it just makes you more likely to commit an act similiar to what the people you hate commit

HA! your a bit like a nazi against nazism, so really we should be calling you a nazi:D

seriously don't hate hatred, it REALLY doesn't help, it just makes you more likely to commit an act similiar to what the people you hate commit
I am in no way constrained to having to tolerate intolerance, if that's what you're driving at. Besides which, I have the Rule of Law in my country (Canada) to back me up. We have a reasonable limitation of Freedom of Speech that acts to prevent Nazism and other politicized forms of Chauvinist thought from gaining so much as a toehold toward legitimacy. In other words, it's illegal to espouse Nazism - and people are prosecuted for promulgating hate speech in this country, to the betterment of all.

So you see, I don't have to hate them, per se - I can simply look down my nose at them and sneer with open derision.

I can simply look down my nose at them and sneer with open derision.

isn't that how hitler looked at the jews?

seriously though, you think that such ideas should never be explored? if so have you ever actually explored them yourself before coming to that conclusion?

i just don't like the idea of canceling out ideas because my parents and school tell me they are bad? do you not think so? (just for the record i'm not a nazi)

isn't that how hitler looked at the jews?
The Jews weren't the ones scapegoating and victimizing people for political gain, EF.
seriously though, you think that such ideas should never be explored?
History bears that one out repeatedly, never mind what I feel about the matter.
if so have you ever actually explored them yourself before coming to that conclusion?
As I am confident and secure in my position in the context of my multicultural society, I have not felt compelled to explore the sensibilities of ethnic nationalism. Can you demonstrate how ethnic nationalism, when permitted to flourish, has not resulted in inequities, violence, and the displacement of people?
i just don't like the idea of canceling out ideas because my parents and school tell me they are bad? do you not think so? (just for the record i'm not a nazi)
I believe in not being constrained to senselessly repeat past mistakes. I am not willing to allow intolerance to seep into my neighbourhood because some zealot wishes to abuse Freedom of Speech to advance a politicized agenda of intolerance, and lend such zealotry an air of legitimacy through continuing to abuse Freedom of Speech.

I am not concerned with your feelings regarding Authority; that is something you alone must contend with. And I am glad to hear that you aren't a Nazi, by the way.

OMG, secret Nazi forum thread!!! :eek:
*stars playing Heut ist Mein Tag, which actually has nothing to do w/the Nazis*

Damnit, I am so additcted to where the above fad originated...

Hitler was the person who made the Nazis into what they are today. Before him they had no influence, no great mission, nothing. Now they are a continuing stain on humanity.

The Jews weren't the ones scapegoating and victimizing people for political gain, EF.

History bears that one out repeatedly, never mind what I feel about the matter.

As I am confident and secure in my position in the context of my multicultural society, I have not felt compelled to explore the sensibilities of ethnic nationalism. Can you demonstrate how ethnic nationalism, when permitted to flourish, has not resulted in inequities, violence, and the displacement of people?

I believe in not being constrained to senselessly repeat past mistakes. I am not willing to allow intolerance to seep into my neighbourhood because some zealot wishes to abuse Freedom of Speech to advance a politicized agenda of intolerance, and lend such zealotry an air of legitimacy through continuing to abuse Freedom of Speech.

I am not concerned with your feelings regarding Authority; that is something you alone must contend with. And I am glad to hear that you aren't a Nazi, by the way.I agree with you on all points except the last. Censoring them only shows that you fear them. You shouldn't. You should laugh at those bastards and know you'll see them in Hell.

Hitler couldnt have been anything if he didn't have people who were willing to carry out the orders, so I say Nazi's.

He might have taken advantage of it, but it was there already. No-one in 2006 is going to convince me the Nazi Party were babes-in-the-woods 'til the inhuman Hitler-beast reared its' ugly head.

No sale.
Hitler took the party and gave it its shape, form and power. He took the party's main ideals and fused them with those he outlined in Mein Kampf. He hi-jacked the party from Anton Drexler. His influence was pivotal for their growth. Without him, they were nothing.

The party itself, origanally was not bad. Hitler wrecked it, and so Nazi = equal Hitler. And that is why it is now the party of evil.