NationStates Jolt Archive

Bwahahaha! Too bad I don't have any guns in Florida. Gotta leave them here in Texas while at college. Working on that though.




Six bills backed by NRA are law
Among the legislation signed by the governor, information on who holds concealed weapons permits is no longer public.
By ALEX LEARY, Times Staff Writer
Published June 8, 2006

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TALLAHASSEE - Neighbors, co-workers and anyone else who might be interested can no longer find who carries a concealed weapon under a bill Gov. Jeb Bush signed into law Wednesday along with five other initiatives of the National Rifle Association.
Names, addresses and other identifying information of concealed weapon permit holders are now exempt from the state's public records law.

"I think the right to privacy in this case outweighs the right of the public to know," Bush said.

Advocates cited a case in which an Orlando television station posted a list of concealed weapons permits on its Web site.

"This is exactly the same information that everybody is screaming and yelling about now that has been breached with regard to veterans and service men and women," said Marion Hammer, the NRA's Florida lobbyist.

But gun safety and open record advocates alike were appalled at the law that goes into effect July 1.

"This exemption more than any other exemption passed this session really makes a mockery of the constitutional right of access," said Barbara Petersen, president of the First Amendment Foundation in Tallahassee, an organization supported by newspapers including the St. Petersburg Times. Law enforcement would still have access to the concealed weapons permit list and information could be released by court order.

Petersen said a law already exists that provides a way for people who feel threatened or harassed to have private information withheld from public view.

"People have a right to know who's carrying a gun so they can make a decision whether they want to be around someone," said Arthur Hayhoe of Wesley Chapel, director of the Florida Coalition to Stop Gun Violence. "The NRA says we the people do not have that right."

The concealed weapons bill was one of six NRA initiatives Bush approved Wednesday. Shops that sell hunting and fishing licenses, including Wal-Mart, are now required to offer customers voter registration applications that they could take home and submit later. The law went into effect immediately, although it will take time for businesses and election offices to get the system in place.

Also effective immediately is a new law that strips Bush and future governors of the authority to order the confiscation of firearms during hurricanes, as was done during Katrina.

Another NRA-backed measure allows firearms in national forests and state parks. That law will go into effect October 1.

Yet the NRA's biggest and most controversial push of the year died before reaching the governor. A bill seeking to penalize businesses that prohibit employees from having guns on company grounds, in their locked cars in the parking lot, never passed the Legislature. The battle split the Republican-controlled Legislature between two traditional GOP allies; business groups and the gun lobby.

"I'm disappointed," Hammer said Wednesday. "But you can't be too disappointed when six out of seven bills pass."

Asked if she would be back next year to fight for the seventh, she replied a resounding, "Oh, yes."

Bush also signed legislation that would partially repeal a 2003 law that paved the way for the largest telephone rate increases in state history. Under the new law Bush signed Wednesday, telephone companies can no longer raise rates as much as 20 percent without asking the state's permission.

Times staff writer Jennifer Liberto contributed to this report.

With the exception of not making CCP owners public knowledge, I'm quite happy with these bills. Wish they would do the same things in Calfornia.

With the exception of not making CCP owners public knowledge, I'm quite happy with these bills. Wish they would do the same things in Calfornia.

Whys that?

Noone has a right to know whether or not I carry a handgun more than I have the right to know if you have AIDs or not.

The seventh bill was very interesting. I would like to see it passed just so we could see how effective it would be and what the ramifications of the policy are.

Whys that?

Noone has a right to know whether or not I carry a handgun more than I have the right to know if you have AIDs or not.

I'm sorry, I just am not much a believer in the right to privacy. I think its xenophobic to want to keep certain things private.

I can understand to a point why AIDs isn't a public announcement thing, because of the large number of prejudice people in the US who are so homophobic that they will harass(or much worse...) people with aids, even if they aren't homosexuals.

For most things, though, I don't really believe in the right to privacy... I don't want the government to be able to come and search your belongings without warrant/probable cause, but if somebody really wants to know if you have a CCP, or a pilots license, or whatever, I don't see the big deal. The government knows, why shouldn't the citizenry?

I'm sorry, I just am not much a believer in the right to privacy. I think its xenophobic to want to keep certain things private.

I can understand to a point why AIDs isn't a public announcement thing, because of the large number of prejudice people in the US who are so homophobic that they will harass(or much worse...) people with aids, even if they aren't homosexuals.

For most things, though, I don't really believe in the right to privacy... I don't want the government to be able to come and search your belongings without warrant/probable cause, but if somebody really wants to know if you have a CCP, or a pilots license, or whatever, I don't see the big deal. The government knows, why shouldn't the citizenry?

CCP means you have a handgun, attractive to burglars. Look at how the Gun violence people are using it-they're looking up people to see if they have CCPs so they can decide if they want to hang around them. :mad: Talk about lame.

There are antigun people who will harass others for having a CCP. Not smart, but smarts have never been in the gun prohibitionists vocabulary or brain.

"People have a right to know who's carrying a gun so they can make a decision whether they want to be around someone," said Arthur Hayhoe of Wesley Chapel, director of the Florida Coalition to Stop Gun Violence. "The NRA says we the people do not have that right." what is wrong with this statement? what would happen if you substitute Gay, Homophobe, Christian, Muslim and other catagories instead of "Carrying a gun" wouldn't that be discrimination?

also, who I choose to hang out with is not defined on whether or not someone is packing heat. now if they proved that they are treating said firearm like a G.I. Joe assessory...

Yet the NRA's biggest and most controversial push of the year died before reaching the governor. A bill seeking to penalize businesses that prohibit employees from having guns on company grounds, in their locked cars in the parking lot, never passed the Legislature. The battle split the Republican-controlled Legislature between two traditional GOP allies; business groups and the gun lobby. glad that didn't pass... disgruntled workers are bad enough... but armed disgruntled workers....

CCP means you have a handgun, attractive to burglars. Look at how the Gun violence people are using it-they're looking up people to see if they have CCPs so they can decide if they want to hang around them. :mad: Talk about lame.

There are antigun people who will harass others for having a CCP. Not smart, but smarts have never been in the gun prohibitionists vocabulary or brain.

Yes, and owning a handgun will also deter a burglar from robbing that person's house, somewhat. You should know that.

If someone doesn't want to hang out with you because of a CCP, they are not a very good friend, and yet its their choice. Sorry if you don't like it, I still see no fundamental right to privacy.

Also, there is a difference between a gay person getting actually harassed for what he is, and a gun owner being told off by someone who is anti-gun.

Take it from someone on your side of the gun debate. There is a real difference between being harassed, or worse, because of your sexuality, than the fact that you own/carry a gun. Much different.

glad that didn't pass... disgruntled workers are bad enough... but armed disgruntled workers....

Right, because somebody who shoots up their work will be deterred because they didn't have their gun in the car outside today.

Its not like people ever plan these things out before hand.

Right, because somebody who shoots up their work will be deterred because they didn't have their gun in the car outside today.

Its not like people ever plan these things out before hand.well, when joe gets the word that he is being fired, I would rather him waiting till the next day (and hopefully calming down) than going as far as his car in the parking lot and coming back.

glad that didn't pass... disgruntled workers are bad enough... but armed disgruntled workers....

They'll probably argue that in a gun paradise, other workers with guns would take care of that, nevermind the fact that it doesn't always work out that way.

They'll probably argue that in a gun paradise, other workers with guns would take care of that, nevermind the fact that it doesn't always work out that way.
and it's a mad scramble to the parking lot... which person will get to their gun first... oh... Timmy in the wheelchair makes it to his car which is parked in the Handicapped stall, and he's having trouble getting his shotgun out, Bubba's rifle is stuck in the gunrack... oh this is gonna be close... and Granny Beezly has finally popped open her trunk and pulled out her BAR... looks like opening shots are her's...

meanwhile, Management has manged to lock the doors and are high fiving themsleves for replacing all glass panels with bullet proof plexiglass.

"People have a right to know who's carrying a gun so they can make a decision whether they want to be around someone," said Arthur Hayhoe of Wesley Chapel, director of the Florida Coalition to Stop Gun Violence. "The NRA says we the people do not have that right."

In my opinion, the best way to find out if someone (legally) has a gun is to ask them. What are these people planning on doing, poring over these lists, looking for people they know?

Also effective immediately is a new law that strips Bush and future governors of the authority to order the confiscation of firearms during hurricanes, as was done during Katrina.

They could do that before?! :eek:

Bwahahaha! Too bad I don't have any guns in Florida. Gotta leave them here in Texas while at college. Working on that though.


Why can't you take them to Florida? I've been to two colleges, and they've both had armsrooms at the campus police stations. One college I went to up north had a walk in freezer for students to store any game animals they shot.

I'm sorry, I just am not much a believer in the right to privacy. I think its xenophobic to want to keep certain things private.

I can understand to a point why AIDs isn't a public announcement thing, because of the large number of prejudice people in the US who are so homophobic that they will harass(or much worse...) people with aids, even if they aren't homosexuals.

For most things, though, I don't really believe in the right to privacy... I don't want the government to be able to come and search your belongings without warrant/probable cause, but if somebody really wants to know if you have a CCP, or a pilots license, or whatever, I don't see the big deal. The government knows, why shouldn't the citizenry?

the gov should not know!

and especially some fucking liberal asshat with money and protection...you know...the do as i say types,not as i do,with security.

it's like telling an iraqi to not own a gun....silly.

the gov should deal with commerce and the military ,etc.
they have no right to tell me how to live until i step on someone elses rights...until then..fuck off!

when i do,fall on me like a ton of bricks,till then...bugger off!

pre emptive policing is a really slippery slope that does not work,go to the inner city and find out for yourself.

stay the fuck outta my life,and i will stay outta yours.

plus i despise nanny staters....i would never presume to dictate your life,yet somehow idiots think it will stop were they want it too,never happen.

cant have it both ways,your free or not!

i prefer free,if your a welfare hippie sucking off the gov tit,then i understand your pov,myself,i'll take the risks that come with freedom..instead of some bush hole tellling whats best for me.

In my opinion, the best way to find out if someone (legally) has a gun is to ask them. What are these people planning on doing, poring over these lists, looking for people they know?



They could do that before?! :eek:



Why can't you take them to Florida? I've been to two colleges, and they've both had armsrooms at the campus police stations. One college I went to up north had a walk in freezer for students to store any game animals they shot.

They could, but not legally. Look what happened in Katrina. Citizens were rounded up, treated like criminals, and forceibly disarmed.

We don't have a college police department. We have security officers, but no place to store a weapon. I could store it illegaly in the trunk of the benz, but I don't want to risk that.

I wish my school was that friendly towards hunters! Bah.


Yes, and owning a handgun will also deter a burglar from robbing that person's house, somewhat. You should know that.

If someone doesn't want to hang out with you because of a CCP, they are not a very good friend, and yet its their choice. Sorry if you don't like it, I still see no fundamental right to privacy.

Also, there is a difference between a gay person getting actually harassed for what he is, and a gun owner being told off by someone who is anti-gun.

Take it from someone on your side of the gun debate. There is a real difference between being harassed, or worse, because of your sexuality, than the fact that you own/carry a gun. Much different.

None at all. Gun ownership is a taboo in some liberal circles. I freaked a bunch of canadians out at school after I showed them pictures I took over the summer of my m1 garand and SKS next to each other-korean war rifles of opposing armies. They freaked out.....and they haven't liked me ever since.

Hey chellis, what is your social security number? Or your dl number? or your address? Or your marriage status? Oh wait, if you own a CCW we can already look up ALL that information! THANK GOD for privacy! After all, with that we'd neve know who owns those wicked crime causing CCWs! (Oh wait, CCW holders commit FAR LESS crimes than the general population, well below)



Can you say identity theft?

I wish my school was that friendly towards hunters! Bah.

Well, I do live in Michigan. Democrats here send out campaign materials with pictures of themselves in blaze orange.

They could, but not legally. Look what happened in Katrina. Citizens were rounded up, treated like criminals, and forceibly disarmed.

could this be because many of them acted like criminals?

well, when joe gets the word that he is being fired, I would rather him waiting till the next day (and hopefully calming down) than going as far as his car in the parking lot and coming back.

If everyone (or even half) of the people there also carry guns Joe will most likely go buy a cheeseburger happy meal. You have no data to the contrary.

None at all. Gun ownership is a taboo in some liberal circles. I freaked a bunch of canadians out at school after I showed them pictures I took over the summer of my m1 garand and SKS next to each other-korean war rifles of opposing armies. They freaked out.....and they haven't liked me ever since.

Gee, go figure. It's just so tough being a borderline anti-social gun nut these days.:rolleyes:

could this be because many of them acted like criminals?

No, that would be the police.

If everyone (or even half) of the people there also carry guns Joe will most likely go buy a cheeseburger happy meal. You have no data to the contrary.
So you do have data on how a hypothetical man would act when he was hypothetically fired from his hypothetical job?

Gee, go figure. It's just so tough being a borderline anti-social gun nut these days.:rolleyes:
In the US, it's more of a social thing.

Which is why the majority of US states now allow concealed carry with a "shall issue" permit (that is, if you're not a felon, they SHALL give the permit to you), and many states now have open carry without a permit.

Gun owners are routinely portrayed as uneducated, paranoid rednecks fascinated by and prone to violence, i.e., exactly the type of person who opposes the liberal agenda and whose moral and social "re-education" is the object of liberal social policies. Typical of such bigotry is New York Gov. Mario Cuomo's famous characterization of gun-owners as "hunters who drink beer, don't vote, and lie to their wives about where they were all weekend." Similar vituperation is rained upon the NRA, characterized by Sen. Edward Kennedy as the "pusher's best friend," lampooned in political cartoons as standing for the right of children to carry firearms to school and, in general, portrayed as standing for an individual's God-given right to blow people away at will.

The stereotype is, of course, false. As criminologist and constitutional lawyer Don B. Kates, Jr. and former HCI contributor Dr. Patricia Harris have pointed out, "[s]tudies consistently show that, on the average, gun owners are better educated and have more prestigious jobs than non-owners.... Later studies show that gun owners are less likely than non-owners to approve of police brutality, violence against dissenters, etc."

Conservatives must understand that the antipathy many liberals have for gun owners arises in good measure from their statist utopianism. This habit of mind has nowhere been better explored than in The Republic. There, Plato argues that the perfectly just society is one in which an unarmed people exhibit virtue by minding their own business in the performance of their assigned functions, while the government of philosopher-kings, above the law and protected by armed guardians unquestioning in their loyalty to the state, engineers, implements, and fine-tunes the creation of that society, aided and abetted by myths that both hide and justify their totalitarian manipulation.

In the US, it's more of a social thing.

Which is why the majority of US states now allow concealed carry with a "shall issue" permit (that is, if you're not a felon, they SHALL give the permit to you), and many states now have open carry without a permit.

YAY! Liberal-slandering, conservative propaganda full of massive generalisations!

Shal I start posting Michael Moore now in response?

YAY! Liberal-slandering, conservative propaganda full of massive generalisations!

Shal I start posting Michael Moore now in response?

I guess you missed the conservaive-slandering liberal propaganda full of massive generalizations in this thread, such as:

Gee, go figure. It's just so tough being a borderline anti-social gun nut these days.

So you do have data on how a hypothetical man would act when he was hypothetically fired from his hypothetical job?
What a dumb request.

What a dumb request.
Stemming from a dumb statement. How coincidental.

Gee, go figure. It's just so tough being a borderline anti-social gun nut these days.:rolleyes:

Haven't seen any of them fellars around my parts lately. They tend to stay in CA or Austin, which is fine.

Austin=Hippieville.

And the best part is they aren't in charge :D

could this be because many of them acted like criminals?

No. SH5 tg me and I"ll send you the video of what went on. Patricia Konie? Hear of her? She was in her house and POs came and she mentioned she had a gun for protection, the California highway patrol tacked her and gave her some injuries while taking away her gun and forcibly removing her from her house. Others, like Ashton Dwyer, only stayed in their homes, ARMED, which isn't a crime.

So you do have data on how a hypothetical man would act when he was hypothetically fired from his hypothetical job?

Go find a new job?

Well, I do live in Michigan. Democrats here send out campaign materials with pictures of themselves in blaze orange.

Well, it's not legal to hunt mourning doves in MI :eek: :D Most of the politicos in Florida/Tejas don't send out much of anything.

My Chica is from up north in Michigan.

If everyone (or even half) of the people there also carry guns Joe will most likely go buy a cheeseburger happy meal. You have no data to the contrary.
neither do you have data that it won't happen.
don't forget, the guns would be in their cars, in the parking lot. thus one person can still go to his car, get his piece and walk back in and still do damage before anyone else thinks about going to their cars to get their peices.

even Joe... under pretense of getting a cheeseburger.

neither do you have data that it won't happen.
don't forget, the guns would be in their cars, in the parking lot. thus one person can still go to his car, get his piece and walk back in and still do damage before anyone else thinks about going to their cars to get their peices.

even Joe... under pretense of getting a cheeseburger.

CCW means you can carry the gun with you, not just in your car. Had that happened the Luby's massacre would have never happened.

Ask Susanna Gratia Hupp.

CCW means you can carry the gun with you, not just in your car. Had that happened the Luby's massacre would have never happened.

Ask Susanna Gratia Hupp.
talking about the law that didn't pass.

Yet the NRA's biggest and most controversial push of the year died before reaching the governor. A bill seeking to penalize businesses that prohibit employees from having guns on company grounds, in their locked cars in the parking lot, never passed the Legislature. The battle split the Republican-controlled Legislature between two traditional GOP allies; business groups and the gun lobby.Whether a Business allows it or not should be up to them.

Whys that?

Noone has a right to know whether or not I carry a handgun more than I have the right to know if you have AIDs or not.
Too bad that is a law in Florida.

CCP means you have a handgun, attractive to burglars.
Are you saying burglars would be interested in stealing it? Isn't that bullshit by your own story the other day?

I guess you missed the conservaive-slandering liberal propaganda full of massive generalizations in this thread, such as:
Gee, go figure. It's just so tough being a borderline anti-social gun nut these days.

Up yer shaft, DK. You're the one bringing US politics into it. My statement had no basis in politics.

Well, it's not legal to hunt mourning doves in MI :eek: :D

Until the November election, anyway.

My Chica is from up north in Michigan.

She's not a Yooper, is she?

Too bad that is a law in Florida.


Are you saying burglars would be interested in stealing it? Isn't that bullshit by your own story the other day?

FYI, it wasn't a burglary, more like simple theft. And she HAS been arrested, FYI. Either way, I don't think I could shoot my own sister....:(


Until the November election, anyway.



She's not a Yooper, is she?

She is. But that will change...soon she'll be a Texas girl! :D

She's too pretty not to be in Texas!

She is. But that will change...soon she'll be a Texas girl! :D

She's too pretty not to be in Texas!

Silly Texan. Nothing can make a Yooper be anything but a Yooper.

Too pretty not to be in Texas? Puhleaze!

That's one of the rather few things I (honestly) love about Texans. You guys do love your state.

neither do you have data that it won't happen.
don't forget, the guns would be in their cars, in the parking lot. thus one person can still go to his car, get his piece and walk back in and still do damage before anyone else thinks about going to their cars to get their peices.

even Joe... under pretense of getting a cheeseburger.

But he could also really get a cheeseburger the point is - there is no data to refute nor support the statement Since the vast majority of people when they get fired choose an option more similar to the cheeseburger - I am inclined to support that liklihood would still prevail most often were gun ownership more prevalent. You are incapable of demonstrating any fact to the contrary of that.

I could try to draw a loose coorelation to the increase in crime that palaces which have innitiated restrictive gun laws eventually realized. I also could try to draw a loose correlation showing gun owners are less often the victims of crime. I could even try to make a loose correlation that legal gun owners are less likely to be violent criminals. I may even be able to make the case that in places where gun owner ship is high crime is low.

But... I really don't feel like it right now - and none of it would directly address poor Joe's cheezeburger dillema.

But he could also really get a cheeseburger the point is - there is no data to refute nor support the statement Since the vast majority of people when they get fired choose an option more similar to the cheeseburger - I am inclined to support that liklihood would still prevail most often were gun ownership more prevalent. You are incapable of demonstrating any fact to the contrary of that.

I could try to draw a loose coorelation to the increase in crime that palaces which have innitiated restrictive gun laws eventually realized. I also could try to draw a loose correlation showing gun owners are less often the victims of crime. I could even try to make a loose correlation that legal gun owners are less likely to be violent criminals. I may even be able to make the case that in places where gun owner ship is high crime is low.

But... I really don't feel like it right now - and none of it would directly address poor Joe's cheezeburger dillema.ok, but will you deny the Business/workplace the right to say what they will or will not allow on their workplace?

They could, but not legally. Look what happened in Katrina. Citizens were rounded up, treated like criminals, and forceibly disarmed.

We don't have a college police department. We have security officers, but no place to store a weapon. I could store it illegaly in the trunk of the benz, but I don't want to risk that.

I wish my school was that friendly towards hunters! Bah.




None at all. Gun ownership is a taboo in some liberal circles. I freaked a bunch of canadians out at school after I showed them pictures I took over the summer of my m1 garand and SKS next to each other-korean war rifles of opposing armies. They freaked out.....and they haven't liked me ever since.

Hey chellis, what is your social security number? Or your dl number? or your address? Or your marriage status? Oh wait, if you own a CCW we can already look up ALL that information! THANK GOD for privacy! After all, with that we'd neve know who owns those wicked crime causing CCWs! (Oh wait, CCW holders commit FAR LESS crimes than the general population, well below)



Can you say identity theft?

I don't know what a dl number is, but my address and Social Security number are both things that have to do with my monetary holdings.

I'm not married, just dating a girl right now. I don't have a CCW. Anything else you want to know about me, that can't be used to screw with my monetary holdings?

talking about the law that didn't pass.

Whether a Business allows it or not should be up to them.

Ahh I see. Still debating over the property rights of businesses and the "extension of the home" argument by the SC....2 very important interests that in this case collide.


Silly Texan. Nothing can make a Yooper be anything but a Yooper.

Too pretty not to be in Texas? Puhleaze!

That's one of the rather few things I (honestly) love about Texans. You guys do love your state.

I'll have to shoot you some pics of the gates around here. My yankee from from NH commented on the fact that EVERYONE with a cattlegate here has a massive Texas star on it. Everyone.

ok, but will you deny the Business/workplace the right to say what they will or will not allow on their workplace?

They can't do squat about customers unless they post a certain kind of sign-not just letters, but it has to be the EXACT SAME SIGN as what Texas law states. Can't have the same letters and shape/size, has to be a carbon copy, otherwise it's as good as nothing.

I don't know what a dl number is, but my address and Social Security number are both things that have to do with my monetary holdings.

I'm not married, just dating a girl right now. I don't have a CCW. Anything else you want to know about me, that can't be used to screw with my monetary holdings?

And they are on your CCW, if you were to have one. DL-Drivers license.


IIRC, it is legal to carry a rifle openly in Texas in public.

They can't do squat about customers unless they post a certain kind of sign-not just letters, but it has to be the EXACT SAME SIGN as what Texas law states. Can't have the same letters and shape/size, has to be a carbon copy, otherwise it's as good as nothing.

the bill is not for Customers but employees
Yet the NRA's biggest and most controversial push of the year died before reaching the governor. A bill seeking to penalize businesses that prohibit employees from having guns on company grounds, in their locked cars in the parking lot, never passed the Legislature. The battle split the Republican-controlled Legislature between two traditional GOP allies; business groups and the gun lobby.

the bill is not for Customers but employees

In my defense I say I got off on a tangent.

In my defense I say I got off on a tangent.
no prob... I had to re read it myself to make sure it was just the Employees and not everyone. :D

Seems like a good law. I can't think of a good reason why that information should be made public.

I'll have to shoot you some pics of the gates around here. My yankee from from NH commented on the fact that EVERYONE with a cattlegate here has a massive Texas star on it. Everyone.

I only wish the average Michigander had as much pride in their state as Texans do.

They can't do squat about customers unless they post a certain kind of sign-not just letters, but it has to be the EXACT SAME SIGN as what Texas law states. Can't have the same letters and shape/size, has to be a carbon copy, otherwise it's as good as nothing.



And they are on your CCW, if you were to have one. DL-Drivers license.


IIRC, it is legal to carry a rifle openly in Texas in public.

Well, I don't believe SS should be public info. The others, fine.