NationStates Jolt Archive

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He taped over the original trilogy?

I hope you've all reached the same conclusion as me: Original Trilogy = FLUKE.

I remember my old CBS-FOX VHS copies of the original trilogy. There was a preview in front of them for a behind-the-scenes making of tape they were trying to sell.

At one point during the ad, Lucas is being interviewed (it's a fairly old interview, looks like it was done while ROTJ was being filmed)...at one point, Lucas says.

"A special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing."

I'll pause for a moment to let the irony of that statement sink in.







After seeing Episode I, and then remembering this particular quote, I lost all respect for Lucas that I ever had. This story only proves once again that I was not wrong in assuming Lucas to be a complete waste of decent organic material.

It's his movies, and he's made (and continues to make) enough money off of us to put them out however the hell he feels like.

Probably knowing full well that we'll still buy it.

However, I am currious about the reaction from some fans that Lucas has somehow betrayed them. I mean, he is the creator, not them. If they wanted something better, why didn't they make it themselves?

I'm going to go with my 'had kids' theory, because everytime someone cool has kids they become less cool. I watched American Graffiti again recently and dammit, it's a pretty good movie. I still like Star Wars after all these years.

But he had kids, and something happens.

I'll say the same thing I always say because I am abnorably obsessed...

Why wouldn't Anikin be making R2-D2? He's a pilot wannabe, R2-D2 was often remarked to be a remarkable R2 unit, he drives the original trilogy like he was Toto-it would have made a ton of sense, synced nicely with the original material and actually added a depth of understanding.

But noooooo....

It's his movies, and he's made (and continues to make) enough money off of us to put them out however the hell he feels like.

Probably knowing full well that we'll still buy it.

However, I am currious about the reaction from some fans that Lucas has somehow betrayed them. I mean, he is the creator, not them. If they wanted something better, why didn't they make it themselves?
I agree to a point. Abolutely, it's hard to argue against the fact that it's his work and as the artist it's his to continue to develop. Actually a challenge to the notion that film is a (I'm going to use this term incorrectly because I can't think of another word right now) concrete art, rather that it can continue to evolve even after it is 'finished' so to speak.

That being said, once the new art is presented we as the audience are also free to re-assess our reactions to the piece, that this is not as satisfactory as the other. He does have the right to change it, but it's packed with the audiences right to react to that change.

Ladies and Gentlement, I submit to you the genius of David Wong.

The Top Ten Best Sci Fi movies that were never made. (http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/film/scifi.html)

He makes a sterling point within about Lucas. Artsy Angst.

"It was an angsty bastard who introduced Han Solo to the world by showing him ruthlessly blowing the face off a mafia bill collector, shooting him from under the table and then cooly walking away and paying his tab. Lucas revealed Obi-Wan Kenobi to us by showing him ending a bar fight by slicing a guy's arm off. Lucas didn't flinch at the thought of blowing up the peaceful planet of Alderaan and killing billions. None of this was gratuitous; it told us the story, told us what the stakes were.

But angst drives it. Now, if the artist is lucky, that angst goes away. If the audience is lucky, it doesn't. The art dies with the angst, you see. By middle age the artist finds himself watching his old films and trying to make ones that sort of look the same, or trying to make films his children can watch. It gets bland. You can start to see this happening with Eminem. As he gets his life together his songs sound more and more like remixes and covers of the old ones. He'll never do Bonnie & Clyde again."

Read. Read and be enriched.

However, I am curious about the reaction from some fans that Lucas has somehow betrayed them. I mean, he is the creator, not them. If they wanted something better, why didn't they make it themselves?

Mike Stackpole, who used to write novels in the Star Wars universe, talked about that on his website a few years ago. He said he woulkd get SW fans at Cons telling him that Luke Skywalker or another major character wouldn't do or say something the way he wrote it. It amazes me how many people take entertainment so damned seriously.

Delator- He did tell a story, just because you disliked the story he created, does not mean he ignored his own comments. It just means you apparently have different ideas about what a story is.

That being said, once the new art is presented we as the audience are also free to re-assess our reactions to the piece, that this is not as satisfactory as the other. He does have the right to change it, but it's packed with the audiences right to react to that change.
Indeed, and I don't say otherwise. If you don't like a movie or a re-release you are free to express that.

But some of the more extream fans take it beyond, "I liked Ep IV better because..." to "Lucas has BETRAYED us and Star Wars!"

No, no he hasn't. It's his baby not yours.

Not to say I think you said that, but to clarify my position a bit.

Indeed, and I don't say otherwise. If you don't like a movie or a re-release you are free to express that.

But some of the more extream fans take it beyond, "I liked Ep IV better because..." to "Lucas has BETRAYED us and Star Wars!"

No, no he hasn't. It's his baby not yours.

Not to say I think you said that, but to clarify my position a bit.
Sometimes people take art personally. Remember, Shostakovitch was chased out the bathroom window...

I'm going to go with my 'had kids' theory, because everytime someone cool has kids they become less cool.

Hmm, that's very true. :p

Yeah, whatever. Star Wars was never all that fantastic to begin with anyway.

I've always hated that fucker.

Who seriously gives a fuck about this?

Who seriously gives a fuck about this?
You cared enough to reply.

You cared enough to reply.
So you care too?

So you care too?

I always care.

I always care.
But what do you care about?

Im a closet star-wars nerd, and have been since age four.
After seeing the last movie, I decided not to kill Lucas, and maybe not even harm him whatsoever.

If you completely erase all of the dialouge between Anakin and Padme in the Ep III, its not a bad movie by itself.
However, it contains some of the worst love dialogue ever written.

Half of Ep II was great...the other half was boring as hell.

Ep 1......um....had Darth Maul and Qui-Gonn Rob Roy!
Who....both got killed off....
Okay, fine it sucked!

Seriously however, I agree with CToaN, its the "Kid's Factor".
Thats why RotJ had fekkin' EWOKS, instead of wookies, on Endor.
George had kids then, and thought Ewoks would be cuter.

However, I think Episode 4, was Lucas best directorial work.
Its the one that will always be regarded as brilliant, since it came first.
In fact, its his best work SINCE, becuase he didnt direct Empire Strikes Back, or RotJ.

Keep in mind many "knowledgeable" people in film regard ESB, as one of the greatest cliff-hangers of all time.

I always care.
Ahh, fair enough.
I understand now.

Interesting. I'm a casual Star wars fan and fell for the "This is the last time that Star Wars will be released [undertone: in the near-original form we're releasing it in that is, prior to the snazzing-up of the mid-to-late 90s] so snap them up now" trick.

I think some of the enhancements to the originals are decent, most neutral (after all, they depict the same plot, on the whole, it's not like Obi Wan turns out to be Luke's father or anything) and there's the occasional revamp that was made that stands out as an enhancement, such as the visuals accompanying the transition between Solo's 'bluff charge' against the Death Star troopers and his running away again...


Episodes I-III I watched and 'enjoyed', for a given value, but agree that there was a lot more 'style' tan 'substance', and a friend more versed in established canon (the books, that is) has appraised me of many of the discontinuities he takes issue with. He didn't like the LOTR trilogy for similar reasons (while I did, for a given value of 'like' that's respectively high, even though I've also the original material).


But, as I said, I'm a casual fan. My particular 'fandom forté' is concentrated upon the works of a certain Terrence Pratchett OBE (who is not dead yet), and I'm afraid I'm a bit of a fanboy, having an example of just about every available published work of his (if not in original form, then in such as the Once More With Footnotes compilation) and many associated items aside. As such, I've tried to imagine a circumstance whereby I'd be dissatisfied with him. I think the forcable return of all hs books (I've got over 120 of them[1]) and rewriting (Blind Io knows that there are inconsitencies in his early works that he could 'improve' if he felt like it, if us fans weren't so keen on merely retconning[2] everythng... ;)) might be a cause for complaint, but I can't evn honestly belief such an action would be contemplated (never mind possible).



[1] Including both hardback and paperback versions of most of the Discworld series and at least one item of all non-Discworld item, rare editions of a couple, foreign-language versions, diaries, almanacs, role-playing source books, graphic novel versions, artwork compilations, not even counting the mugs, glassware, figurines, pewterware, postcards, beermats, commearative coins, stamps, videos, DVDs, T-shirts or audio-books I also possess... see, told you I was a fanboy.
[2] And, of course making use of the biggest get-out clause there is, the catastrophic process as described in Thief Of Time.

I'm not so peeved about the actual story and such, just the way the final products turned out.

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/images/050531.jpg

I'm always flamed and whatnot for expressing this but it's neccesary to make you people see the truth:

Star Wars, especially the original trilogy, is a big pile of steaming shite. Not just shit, oh no! Shite. Full blown Irish dog crap. It's terribly made, terribly directed, terribly shot, terribly edited, terribly acted. There are no redeeming qualities about it whatsoever.

At least the prequel trilogy had interesting special effects to keep me watching. The original had diddly squat of anything.

George Lucas has always been a prick. This just made the situation worse.

I'm always flamed and whatnot for expressing this but it's neccesary to make you people see the truth:

Star Wars, especially the original trilogy, is a big pile of steaming shite. Not just shit, oh no! Shite. Full blown Irish dog crap. It's terribly made, terribly directed, terribly shot, terribly edited, terribly acted. There are no redeeming qualities about it whatsoever.

At least the prequel trilogy had interesting special effects to keep me watching. The original had diddly squat of anything.

First of all, no. A new hope was shit, but Empire and Jedi were not. Wanna know why? THEY WERENT DIRECTED BY LUCAS. And if you like the prequels better, clearly you are not old enough to have been around during the originals. You sound like a person who only takes graphics into consideration when it comes to video games.

George Lucas has always been a prick. This just made the situation worse.



First of all, no. A new hope was shit, but Empire and Jedi were not. Wanna know why? THEY WERENT DIRECTED BY LUCAS. And if you like the prequels better, clearly you are not old enough to have been around during the originals. You sound like a person who only takes graphics into consideration when it comes to video games.

A new hope wasnt shit, it was just really badly made. Its still a really fun, undemanding movie. Alec Guinness used to get upset if someone told him theyd seen Star wars a hundred times, but its such an easy film, thats only like watching something like The Deer Hunter 2 or 3 times. you could watch star wars every day and it wouldnt affect you at all really. And I like that about it.

If he could just put the music and dance routine from Jabba's palace in ROtJ back the way it was, I would be happy. And take Hayden Wankinson out of Jedi too, put the old guy back. What will he do next? replace Alec Guinness with a CG Ewan Mcgregor? replace the light sabres with walkie talkies?

How hard can it be to just sit back and not utterly ruin something? All he has to do is put the originals, in their original form, on to DVD. With nothing added or taken away. Ironically this would also be the easiest thing to do, and would make the most money. What a fucking moron.

By middle age the artist finds himself watching his old films and trying to make ones that sort of look the same, or trying to make films his children can watch.

Excuse me? Annikin's slaughter of the children in Ep III is something you'd let your children watch?

Conclusion? I thought it was the debate...

However, I am currious about the reaction from some fans that Lucas has somehow betrayed them. I mean, he is the creator, not them. If they wanted something better, why didn't they make it themselves?
Copyright issues?

Anyway, have you heard of the Expanded Universe?

Fuck Lucas, he didn't give out enogh, but not the movies, they were decent, half-decent, whatever...

What will he do next? replace Alec Guinness with a CG Ewan Mcgregor?

shut up already - he might be listening.

Copyright issues?

Anyway, have you heard of the Expanded Universe?
Yup, and I also remember Lucas saying he doesn't care or even follow it.

Which I found funny because some rabin fans went into a tizzy when ep I, II, and III started violating that continutiy.

My 2 cents on this matter:

Han Solo fired first. That's what made him the great guy he is.

Always has, always should... What happened?

My 2 cents on this matter:

Han Solo fired first. That's what made him the great guy he is.

Always has, always should... What happened?

Damn straight he fired first.


And I despised the Coruscant "Stormtrooper in the Mosh Pit" ending of Jedi. As hokey as the "Ewok Celebration" was in the original release, it was better.

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=23493

He taped over the original trilogy?

I hope you've all reached the same conclusion as me: Original Trilogy = FLUKE.Not a fluke--there were just other factors at play in the first two films that disappeared once Jedi went into production.

For starters, Star Wars was a product of the studio system. Lucas was a relative nobody, so he had to listen to what the money people wanted, and they wanted someone who could actually write dialogue. Enter a script doctor, a woman whose name escapes me right now, and who never got screen credit. She fixed Star Wars, and later, Empire, and then died before Jedi was done filming.

Secondly, Star Wars and Empire were so successful and Lucas had made so much dough from them as well as other films that he could tell Hollywood to take a hike, and he moved everything up to northern California (Skywalker Ranch). Since he could find all the unenjoined money he wanted, he could surround himself with yes-people, people who would never tell him that the Ewoks were a bad idea, or that Jar Jar was an abomination, etc. Looking back on it, the death of the series was almost inevitable.

Excuse me? Annikin's slaughter of the children in Ep III is something you'd let your children watch?
reminder: they never showed Anikin kill any of the kids. only the "Older" ones... and even then it's a sword slash as a teen steps out of the camera while Ani is choking another.

I'm just glad I got the Original set on Laserdisk for a whopping $20.... and with my dvd Burner with HDD... :D

Damn straight he fired first.


And I despised the Coruscant "Stormtrooper in the Mosh Pit" ending of Jedi. As hokey as the "Ewok Celebration" was in the original release, it was better.
whoo hoo!

I mean, c'mon... if his own capital city was celebrating his death just moments after the Deatstart II blowed up... that just proved that the Empire would fall whether or not the rebels succeeded. The Star Wars books were much better.

Im a closet star-wars nerd, and have been since age four.
After seeing the last movie, I decided not to kill Lucas, and maybe not even harm him whatsoever.

If you completely erase all of the dialouge between Anakin and Padme in the Ep III, its not a bad movie by itself.
However, it contains some of the worst love dialogue ever written.

Half of Ep II was great...the other half was boring as hell.

Ep 1......um....had Darth Maul and Qui-Gonn Rob Roy!
Who....both got killed off....
Okay, fine it sucked!

Seriously however, I agree with CToaN, its the "Kid's Factor".
Thats why RotJ had fekkin' EWOKS, instead of wookies, on Endor.
George had kids then, and thought Ewoks would be cuter.

However, I think Episode 4, was Lucas best directorial work.
Its the one that will always be regarded as brilliant, since it came first.
In fact, its his best work SINCE, becuase he didnt direct Empire Strikes Back, or RotJ.

Keep in mind many "knowledgeable" people in film regard ESB, as one of the greatest cliff-hangers of all time.

I'll expose my nerdiness here.

The Ewoks were originally Wookies, but Lucas wanted the Endor dwellers to be "primitives" and it's obvious by Chewbacca that the Wookies are capable of understanding and operating advanced technology, thus the Ewoks were born.

whoo hoo!

I mean, c'mon... if his own capital city was celebrating his death just moments after the Deatstart II blowed up... that just proved that the Empire would fall whether or not the rebels succeeded. The Star Wars books were much better.
That's cuz Lucas didn't write 'em. ;)

That's cuz Lucas didn't write 'em. ;)
he did write the first one.

someone told me he read somewhere the original plotlines for the whole star wars megastory (all the episodes) and it was so convoluted and twisted that he lost the thread of the story within the first 3 pages. :p

he did write the first one.p

Actually, Alan Dean Foster (who also wrote Splinter of the Mind's Eye) ghosted the novelization of Star Wars for Lucas.

Actually, Alan Dean Foster (who also wrote Splinter of the Mind's Eye) ghosted the novelization of Star Wars for Lucas.
ah... My mistake, the novel I have didn't mention ADF. tho I did read Splinter and it was great.

Wookie Grenades!

Isn't anybody else outraged that he TAPED OVER THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY!? That's like painting over the Mona Lisa.

Isn't anybody else outraged that he TAPED OVER THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY!? That's like painting over the Mona Lisa.
Except, you know, the Mona Lisa was good.

Isn't anybody else outraged that he TAPED OVER THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY!? That's like painting over the Mona Lisa.
Not really. It's his, after all. Hell, you know who practically invented the letterbox version of videotapes and DVDs? Woody Allen, who refused to let any video version of his films be made any other way--he filmed those films the way he wanted them, damnit, and no one was changing them, except, one assumes, him, if he wanted to do so.

We can bitch about it, and say how wrong it is for him to have done that, but i the end, it's his baby, and he gets to do what he wants with it.

Any by the way--comparing Star Wars to the Mona Lisa is a bit over the top.

Isn't anybody else outraged that he TAPED OVER THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY!? That's like painting over the Mona Lisa.

Please, do not even attempt to soil the masterpiece that is the Mona Lisa by comparing it to the USian crapfest that is "Star Wars."

Isn't anybody else outraged that he TAPED OVER THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY!? That's like painting over the Mona Lisa.

Nah. There's got to be thousands of copies of the original tapes out there...

And my fiance has the laserdiscs.

Please, do not even attempt to soil the masterpiece that is the Mona Lisa by comparing it to the USian crapfest that is "Star Wars."

Star Wars is a film masterpiece.

Star Wars is a film masterpiece.
Star Wars was a good film, bordering on great. A masterpiece is stretching it, and a comparison to one of the most well-known works of art of all time is ludicrous. Get some perspective, dude.

Ep I and II sucked, but atleast it completely screws up the expanded universe. I hate the EU stuff.

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He taped over the original trilogy?

I hope you've all reached the same conclusion as me: Original Trilogy = FLUKE.
You know what surprises me the most about you?
The fact it took you until 1/2 through the year of our Lord, 2006 to work out that Lucas is a complete arse.

Most of us came to that conclusion years ago. Pretty much since those fucking ewoks in 'Jedi.

Star Wars is a film masterpiece.

Let me guess, you've never seen a film that wasn't in English?

Star Wars was a good film, bordering on great. A masterpiece is stretching it, and a comparison to one of the most well-known works of art of all time is ludicrous. Get some perspective, dude.

It'd be a masterpiece if Lucas had stopped after Empire.

Let me guess, you've never seen a film that wasn't in English?
Star Wars is a Film Masterpiece... not the only Film Masterpiece, but a Film Masterpiece nonetheless.

You know what surprises me the most about you?
The fact it took you until 1/2 through the year of our Lord, 2006 to work out that Lucas is a complete arse.

Most of us came to that conclusion years ago. Pretty much since those fucking ewoks in 'Jedi.

I wasn't around for that. And I was still young for I and II.

Let me guess, you've never seen a film that wasn't in English?

I probably have, although I can't name any right now.

... Does mentioning Shaun of the Dead get me back any respectability?

It'd be a masterpiece if Lucas had stopped after Empire.
I liked RotJ. it was a great ending (the original, not the crappy remake) to the trilogy.

the "Prequels" ruined it for me. I didn't collect them for my library.

I liked RotJ. it was a great ending (the original, not the crappy remake) to the trilogy.

the "Prequels" ruined it for me. I didn't collect them for my library.

RotJ was ok. The ewoks sorta ruined it.

RotJ was ok. The ewoks sorta ruined it.
IMO, the Ewoks were better than the "Directors" additions. Chisten Haydenson added in to complete the ties... :rolleyes:

RotJ was ok. The ewoks sorta ruined it.
Yep.