NationStates Jolt Archive

Since so many are making such points on gay marriage, etc. Lets turn to something else in the Bible.

The Bible condemns fornication (sex before marriage or outside of marriage) as a sin, in many more verses than it does homosexuality, and in several places.

Does that mean that, since our Government is "One Nation under God" and to some (I.e. The Protestant Christian God) and as some are saying God's law should be integrated with man's law then fornication (sex outside of marriage) should be banned according to this thought.

So you may ask yourself, if you are Christian, have you had sex outside of marriage, which is a sin just as great as homosexuality? Did you ask for forgiveness? Have you lied? Cheated? Stole anything?

Good lord, I don't think even the wackiest zealot advocates banning sex.

Although there is Fred Phelps...

Good lord, I don't think even the wackiest zealot advocates banning sex.

Although there is Fred Phelps...
He advocates celibacy? And suddenly, it all made sense. :eek:

Fornication illegal? Fuck no.

Come on--you knew it was coming (no pun intended). ;)

Fornication illegal? Fuck no.

Come on--you knew it was coming (no pun intended). ;)

Was that unintended too? ;)

Was that unintended too? ;)
That was the intended unintended bit, sweetie.

How you doin? ;)

Since so many are making such points on gay marriage, etc. Lets turn to something else in the Bible.

The Bible condemns fornication (sex before marriage or outside of marriage) as a sin, in many more verses than it does homosexuality, and in several places.

Does that mean that, since our Government is "One Nation under God" and to some (I.e. The Protestant Christian God) and as some are saying God's law should be integrated with man's law then fornication (sex outside of marriage) should be banned according to this thought.

So you may ask yourself, if you are Christian, have you had sex outside of marriage, which is a sin just as great as homosexuality? Did you ask for forgiveness? Have you lied? Cheated? Stole anything?
I regularly engage in sodomy, and masturbate to Darwin's Origin of the Species. I take drugs, participate in Satanic rituals, sacrifice baby goats and read Harry Potter. I am a sinful being.

Doesn't the bible mention fornication being better then... self pleasure? :eek:

Doesn't the bible mention fornication being better then... self pleasure? :eek:

Doesn't the bible also condone slavery? Who cares about the bible?

Doesn't the bible also condone slavery? Who cares about the bible?

I do. Once you get past the first few books it's a pretty good read. ;)

Meh. Each to their own. In my opinion, sex is a beautiful, special thing, and so is marriage. The two go together like strawberries and cream and enhance each other. However, to most people I know (in England, where I live) sex is merely an animal act which is generally pleasurable and therefore sought after by people in same way alchohol, chocolate or beating your mates at snooker is. Sadly the vast majority of media supports this view.

The South Islands Good lord, I don't think even the wackiest zealot advocates banning sex.

He wasn't advocating banning sex, he was asking for views on limiting sex to married couples.

I'm a catholic and I really dont care whether someone is gay/lesbian and I support gay/lesbian marriage. Its just a union of two lovers is all.... Is it a sin for me to be in a cult and a big religion? jw



Hail Foamy

I do. Once you get past the first few books it's a pretty good read. ;)
I've been rereading the book of Amos lately--don't ask why--and it's interesting allright. Amos was batshit crazy, that's for sure.

Good lord, I don't think even the wackiest zealot advocates banning sex.

Although there is Fred Phelps...
I know a lot of homosexual guys ... and none of them spends as much time thinking about male-male sex as Fred Phelps does.

Illegal? No.

Dangerous? Possibly. I've done it, but it increases the chance of contracting STDs and, for you heterosexuals out there, making babies.

Since so many are making such points on gay marriage, etc. Lets turn to something else in the Bible.

The Bible condemns fornication (sex before marriage or outside of marriage) as a sin, in many more verses than it does homosexuality, and in several places.

Does that mean that, since our Government is "One Nation under God" and to some (I.e. The Protestant Christian God) and as some are saying God's law should be integrated with man's law then fornication (sex outside of marriage) should be banned according to this thought.

So you may ask yourself, if you are Christian, have you had sex outside of marriage, which is a sin just as great as homosexuality? Did you ask for forgiveness? Have you lied? Cheated? Stole anything?

So that in childish reverse psychology must mean homsexuality is not as bad right! lol. As much as you want to justify homosexuality, it goes against nature. I am not a religious person btw.

Since so many are making such points on gay marriage, etc. Lets turn to something else in the Bible.

The Bible condemns fornication (sex before marriage or outside of marriage) as a sin, in many more verses than it does homosexuality, and in several places.

Does that mean that, since our Government is "One Nation under God" and to some (I.e. The Protestant Christian God) and as some are saying God's law should be integrated with man's law then fornication (sex outside of marriage) should be banned according to this thought.

So you may ask yourself, if you are Christian, have you had sex outside of marriage, which is a sin just as great as homosexuality? Did you ask for forgiveness? Have you lied? Cheated? Stole anything?

Many states still have laws on the books that reflect some of these beliefs. I know Wisconsin does. Adultry comes to mind.

However, I have always been told that I am going to hell and if fornication is a sin, I am going with a smile on my face.

Sex makes Jesus cry, anal sex doubly so.

I've been rereading the book of Amos lately--don't ask why--and it's interesting allright. Amos was batshit crazy, that's for sure.

If you have a Catholic version of the Bible, try Tobit. It's like a Hebrew soap opera, complete with demon-slaying! :D

If you have a Catholic version of the Bible, try Tobit. It's like a Hebrew soap opera, complete with demon-slaying! :D
It's been years since I read the Apocrypha, but yeah, that's some fun reading.

It's been years since I read the Apocrypha, but yeah, that's some fun reading.
Whether or not the Bible is true, it makes some damn good reading.

Good lord, I don't think even the wackiest zealot advocates banning sex.

Although there is Fred Phelps...

Phelps isn't a zealot, just the instigator of a group of zealots.

sex is merely an animal act which is generally pleasurable and therefore sought after by people in same way alchohol, chocolate or beating your mates at snooker is

what is snooker?


Fornication is sex without being married, but should not be considered in the same bag as adultry, the two are vastly diffrent. In adultry your basically breaking vows to God. Fornication isn't touched on as much about being 'bad' in the Bible, most of the time it's lumped in with adultry incorrectly.

I regularly engage in sodomy, and masturbate to Darwin's Origin of the Species. I take drugs, participate in Satanic rituals, sacrifice baby goats and read Harry Potter. I am a sinful being.

Lets convert to Satanism, live in San Francisco and be gay. while we're at it we can open up an abortion clinic

Fornication is sex without being married, but should not be considered in the same bag as adultry, the two are vastly diffrent. In adultry your basically breaking vows to God. Fornication isn't touched on as much about being 'bad' in the Bible, most of the time it's lumped in with adultry incorrectly.

Interesting. I was under the impression that fornication is bad because you're misusing a gift from God, and that adultery is even worse because you're both misusing the gift and breaking a vow.

Whether or not the Bible is true, it makes some damn good reading.Metaphysically, it's true in a number of ways, even though it's about as factually accurate as the Arthur legends, and that's the beauty of it as a document.

So that in childish reverse psychology must mean homsexuality is not as bad right! lol. As much as you want to justify homosexuality, it goes against nature. I am not a religious person btw.
Two points on this.
First, homosexuality is not against nature, as proven both by the genetic basis of it and the many cases of gay animals.
Second, virtually everything mankind does IS against nature. Technology, buildings, heck we've been going against nature since we invented the wheel. Why does this specific instance bother you so much?

Metaphysically, it's true in a number of ways, even though it's about as factually accurate as the Arthur legends, and that's the beauty of it as a document.
Belief in it is ultimately a matter of faith (I'm loosely Catholic, so this applies to me in part). That said, I hate it when people deride it as a meaningless work. I find it to be wonderfully entertaining as a piece of literature.

So that in childish reverse psychology must mean homsexuality is not as bad right! lol. As much as you want to justify homosexuality, it goes against nature. I am not a religious person btw.

:rolleyes:

The wheel goes against nature as does the use of fire.

Homosexuality, however, is as natural as the birds and bees. Especially the penguins. It happens in nature ALL the time. I direct you to this National Geographic article on the subject.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html

It's far from against nature.

Good lord, I don't think even the wackiest zealot advocates banning sex.

Although there is Fred Phelps...
Thats because people find it so much harder to ban what they wish to partake in then baning something they find icky

Two points on this.
First, homosexuality is not against nature, as proven both by the genetic basis of it and the many cases of gay animals.
Second, virtually everything mankind does IS against nature. Technology, buildings, heck we've been going against nature since we invented the wheel. Why does this specific instance bother you so much?

Damn. You beat me too it. :D

I was just making a point that Christians so readily throw homosexuality out there, but don't make a big deal out of the other sins (Lust all over the place) that the Bible condemns just as much.

Lets convert to Satanism, live in San Francisco and be gay. while we're at it we can open up an abortion clinic
Why not make it an abortion cafe? :)

Does that mean that, since our Government is "One Nation under God"

Actually, that was added in by Dwight D. Eisenhower in the 1950's to please his Quaker friend, Richard Nixon.

I was just making a point that Christians so readily throw homosexuality out there, but don't make a big deal out of the other sins (Lust all over the place) that the Bible condemns just as much.

I actually make a much bigger deal about adultery than I do homosexuality, because it involves the breaking of a vow while homosexual acts do not.

Why not make it an abortion cafe? :)

Stem cell frappaccino anyone?

I actually make a much bigger deal about adultery than I do homosexuality, because it involves the breaking of a vow while homosexual acts do not.

Though sometimes the two go hand in hand. You'd be suprised at the number of married guys looking for some discrete man on man action.

Belief in it is ultimately a matter of faith (I'm loosely Catholic, so this applies to me in part). That said, I hate it when people deride it as a meaningless work. I find it to be wonderfully entertaining as a piece of literature.
I'm pretty much an atheist now, so I don't believe in it in the traditional sense, but I do very much appreciate large sections of it, and as is apparent from my earlier post, still read it. There's a lot ot like in there.

I'm pretty much an atheist now, so I don't believe in it in the traditional sense, but I do very much appreciate large sections of it, and as is apparent from my earlier post, still read it. There's a lot ot like in there.
It's good as escapism, that's for sure. :)

I was just making a point that Christians so readily throw homosexuality out there, but don't make a big deal out of the other sins (Lust all over the place) that the Bible condemns just as much.
Well, that would mean that they'd have to live up to it, doesn't it? ;)

Since so many are making such points on gay marriage, etc. Lets turn to something else in the Bible.

The Bible condemns fornication (sex before marriage or outside of marriage) as a sin, in many more verses than it does homosexuality, and in several places.

Does that mean that, since our Government is "One Nation under God" and to some (I.e. The Protestant Christian God) and as some are saying God's law should be integrated with man's law then fornication (sex outside of marriage) should be banned according to this thought.

So you may ask yourself, if you are Christian, have you had sex outside of marriage, which is a sin just as great as homosexuality? Did you ask for forgiveness? Have you lied? Cheated? Stole anything?

Actually there are many states which indeed have decreed fornication illegal... However, and very conviently, there is no way to enforce their own laws to such, because any form of enforcement short of the violators turning themselves in would violate a large chunk of those same states Constitutions...

Since so many are making such points on gay marriage, etc. Lets turn to something else in the Bible.

The Bible condemns fornication (sex before marriage or outside of marriage) as a sin, in many more verses than it does homosexuality, and in several places.

Does that mean that, since our Government is "One Nation under God" and to some (I.e. The Protestant Christian God) and as some are saying God's law should be integrated with man's law then fornication (sex outside of marriage) should be banned according to this thought.

So you may ask yourself, if you are Christian, have you had sex outside of marriage, which is a sin just as great as homosexuality? Did you ask for forgiveness? Have you lied? Cheated? Stole anything?


Fornication-sex outside of marriage, is a SIN, just like lying, cheating, or stealing, only the consequences are greater. I am personally opposed to fornication, although making it illegal or not intrigues me.

Two points on this.
First, homosexuality is not against nature, as proven both by the genetic basis of it and the many cases of gay animals.

I would like to see the research on genetically homosexual animals. Animals will exhibit homosexual behavior if isolated from members of the opposite sex. That is why males are castrated and females are fed hormones. But I don't remember ever seeing a farm animal that prefered same sex. Certainly not as large percent as humans who claim to be homosexual.

The human homosexuals I know do feel that it is genetic but I haven't seen research that confirms this. Whatever causes homosexuality does seem to take place early in child development. Either in the sperm/egg, womb, or shortly after.

I actually remember when both fornication and adultry were illegal in most states. I'll bet it's still on the books in some of them. It was usually only prosocuted when found by a family member and turned into the authorities. The police didn't go looking for it.

If fact "Breach of Promise" was also illegal. If a man asked a woman to marry him then backed out he could be taken to court.

I might vote for a ban on cheating on your spouse. But fornication? We'd be jailing half the teenagers in the country.

I would like to see the research on genetically homosexual animals. Animals will exhibit homosexual behavior if isolated from members of the opposite sex. That is why males are castrated and females are fed hormones. But I don't remember ever seeing a farm animal that prefered same sex. Certainly not as large percent as humans who claim to be homosexual.

Then you aren't very observant. A couple of our geese were homosexual. And I had a homosexual cat once.

And from the National Geographic article I posted a link to earlier in this thread...

"But, actually, some same-sex birds do do it. So do beetles, sheep, fruit bats, dolphins, and orangutans. Zoologists are discovering that homosexual and bisexual activity is not unknown within the animal kingdom.

Roy and Silo, two male chinstrap penguins at New York's Central Park Zoo have been inseparable for six years now. They display classic pair-bonding behavior—entwining of necks, mutual preening, flipper flapping, and the rest. They also have sex, while ignoring potential female mates.

Wild birds exhibit similar behavior. There are male ostriches that only court their own gender, and pairs of male flamingos that mate, build nests, and even raise foster chicks. "

These are not confined animals denied the company of the opposite sex. So you might want to re think that theory.

Though sometimes the two go hand in hand. You'd be suprised at the number of married guys looking for some discrete man on man action.
Not any more often than that heterosexual man looking for some discrete man on woman action.

I would like to see the research on genetically homosexual animals. Animals will exhibit homosexual behavior if isolated from members of the opposite sex. That is why males are castrated and females are fed hormones. But I don't remember ever seeing a farm animal that prefered same sex. Certainly not as large percent as humans who claim to be homosexual.

Incorrect. I'll find the link as soon as I am able, but homosexuality has been documented in several (see: very many) species of mammals and birds. In fact, the ~10% homosexuality in humans is less than in other animals.

Why stop at fornication? Why not make sinning illegal? Let's put people in prison for coveting, for masturbating, for being lazy, for being greedy, etc. Do you know why we don't make sinning illegal? Because if something is illegal it is punishable by the state. The only being that may punish a sinner is the Lord God. God didn't give us free will so that lesser mortals can take it away. It's our choice to sin, and the only time the government may punish us for using our ability to choose is if our choice intentionally harms society.

Well if it doesn't harm anyone, then sure, why not? I doubt it'll happen anytime soon cuz society hates stuff like this, but yeah, why not..?

You can take our lives, but you'll never take our vibrators!

You can take our lives, but you'll never take our vibrators!

Oh YES WE CAN!!!!! :eek:

You can take our lives, but you'll never take our vibrators!
I'll take your vibrators >_>; I'll keep them, too.

So you may ask yourself, if you are Christian, have you had sex outside of marriage, which is a sin just as great as homosexuality? Did you ask for forgiveness? Have you lied? Cheated? Stole anything?
no, yes, yes, yes, not knowingly...

You can take our lives, but you'll never take our vibrators!
kewl... we'll just take all the Batteries. :D

My friends, apart from a few of the commandments, and some of the nicer things that Jesus said, the Bible should never be used as a source of law. I mean, this is the thing that tells us never to piss on other people. If people need to be TOLD that, then we're all fucked.

Incorrect. I'll find the link as soon as I am able, but homosexuality has been documented in several (see: very many) species of mammals and birds. In fact, the ~10% homosexuality in humans is less than in other animals.

Like the Bonobos? Our closest living relative? Almost all of them are bisexual.

"The bonobo, an African ape closely related to humans, has an even bigger sexual appetite. Studies suggest 75 percent of bonobo sex is nonreproductive and that nearly all bonobos are bisexual. Frans de Waal, author of Bonobo: The Forgotten Ape, calls the species a "make love, not war" primate. He believes bonobos use sex to resolve conflicts between individuals. "

Yeah, but I didn't want to use the Bonobo. I thought it was overused.

Yeah, but I didn't want to use the Bonobo. I thought it was overused.

There is also this from wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals

Homosexual behavior

Main article: List of animals displaying homosexual behavior

The presence of same-sex sexual behavior was not scientifically observed on a large scale until recent times, possibly due to observer bias caused by social attitudes to same-sex sexual behavior. It appears to be widespread among insects, birds and mammals, particularly the apes. Many male penguins that apparently mate for life have been observed in homosexual pairs and refuse to pair with females when given the chance [4].

One report on sheep cited below states:

"Approximately eight percent of [male] rams exhibit sexual preferences [that is, even when given a choice] for male partners (male-oriented rams) in contrast to most rams, which prefer female partners (female-oriented rams). We identified a cell group within the medial preoptic area/anterior hypothalamus of age-matched adult sheep that was significantly larger in adult rams than in ewes..." [citation needed]

Same-sex sexual behavior should only be identified as a sexual orientation with caution. In humans the behavior is considered distinct from the orientation - many heterosexuals engage in same-sex behavior at times, and many homosexuals have heterosexual lifestyles. In animals this distinction is still being explored.

No batteries, no problem. They're still fun on 'manual'.

Morality should not be legislated.

I'm a Catholic and I've had sex out of marriage.

Since so many are making such points on gay marriage, etc. Lets turn to something else in the Bible.

The Bible condemns fornication (sex before marriage or outside of marriage) as a sin, in many more verses than it does homosexuality, and in several places. When pressed on the matter, many christians will say the whole old testament is optional, rather than submit to all the silly laws in Leviticus. Sure they'll use it to condemn homosexuals and fornication and whatnot, but when it prohibits shellfish, it suddenly doesn't matter anymore.
No, the only thing that matters is what Jesus said. "Love thy neighbour like thyself". So I guess you can figure out what masturbation implies..

To make fornication illegal would be insane. I mean when you tell people they arent allowed to do something, it only makes them want it more. There are people out there who thinks it's wrong, but that is their opinion. Why should someone elses beliefs be forced upon the world.

No. That's about as much as I have to answer such a stupid question.

Yeah Im gonna have to say no to that. XD
Just, people who are unmarried can be in love as well, and sex is of course not love but somewhat of an expression of it. I mean sure, lots of people have sex just for the fun in meaningless situations but then there are those of us who like to still express our love without being married just yet.

Good lord, I don't think even the wackiest zealot advocates banning sex.

Although there is Fred Phelps...


The only folks who ever mention that name appear to dislike him.
I infer from that that he has few - if any - followers.

( People who advocate banning sex don't breed true - Survival of the Fittest in action. )

Since so many are making such points on gay marriage, etc. Lets turn to something else in the Bible.

The Bible condemns fornication (sex before marriage or outside of marriage) as a sin, in many more verses than it does homosexuality, and in several places.

Does that mean that, since our Government is "One Nation under God" and to some (I.e. The Protestant Christian God) and as some are saying God's law should be integrated with man's law then fornication (sex outside of marriage) should be banned according to this thought.

So you may ask yourself, if you are Christian, have you had sex outside of marriage, which is a sin just as great as homosexuality? Did you ask for forgiveness? Have you lied? Cheated? Stole anything?

Thank you once again for making the stupid assumption that if someone is a "Christian", that they automatically condemn homosexuals. Or that all Christians are more than willing to accuse everyone else of sin.

Please acquaint yourself with the myriad churches and people within "Christianity".

More to the point, not all "fundamentalists" are homosexual bashers, either.

It would be rather impossible to effectively enforce a ban on fornication. Not only that, but the comparison with homosexuality is somewhat faulty inasmuch as the issue at stake is not homsexuality or homosexual sex, but gay marriage; homosexuality itself is widely tolerated, and homosexual sex isn't banned. Neither is fornication. There is a difference between tolerating something that is wrong (both homosexuality and fornication, according to Christian morality) and endorsing it (which is what gay marriage would be).

I'd only consider illegalizing "fornication" if I could also illegalize zealots, bigotry and cults alltogether ;)

I'd only consider illegalizing "fornication" if I could also illegalize zealots, bigotry and cults alltogether ;)


I'll consider that after outlawing atheism. :p

I'll consider that after outlawing atheism. :p

Why? Do you really want a lot of people who don't really believe in God being forced to go to your church? I doubt they'd be very respectful...

So you may ask yourself, if you are Christian, have you had sex outside of marriage, which is a sin just as great as homosexuality? Did you ask for forgiveness? Have you lied? Cheated? Stole anything?

Am I Christian? Eh...I was raised Roman Catholic...and while I haven't made up my mind on God really...agnostic...I definately know I'm not Roman Catholic anymore.

Sex outside of marriage? Haha...well I'm not married and I definately have had sex.

Ask for forgiveness? No...

Lied? Yep.

Cheated? Yep.

Stole anything? Nothing serious...

Good lord, I don't think even the wackiest zealot advocates banning sex.

Although there is Fred Phelps...

Wrong. He is reported to have been insatiable in his younger days, wearing out his wife and several of his children.

Sex makes Jesus cry, anal sex doubly so.

Most men cry when the sex is over-the-top awesome....

Fornication-sex outside of marriage, is a SIN, just like lying, cheating, or stealing, only the consequences are greater. I am personally opposed to fornication, although making it illegal or not intrigues me.

What about jackin off to Nation States forum posts?:gundge:

Sex is good. Animals do it freely all the time... why can't we? Nothing is going to stop me from having sex, especially the government and yes, I am a Christian. I am, uh, rebellious. Maybe the Bible says bullshit like that, but did Jesus ever personally say it?

Since so many are making such points on gay marriage, etc. Lets turn to something else in the Bible.

The Bible condemns fornication (sex before marriage or outside of marriage) as a sin, in many more verses than it does homosexuality, and in several places.

Does that mean that, since our Government is "One Nation under God" and to some (I.e. The Protestant Christian God) and as some are saying God's law should be integrated with man's law then fornication (sex outside of marriage) should be banned according to this thought.

So you may ask yourself, if you are Christian, have you had sex outside of marriage, which is a sin just as great as homosexuality? Did you ask for forgiveness? Have you lied? Cheated? Stole anything?

I believe that all activities that produce feelings of pleasure in either an intellectual or a physical form should be banned, that human beings should occupy their time with a regular routine of ritualistic self-abuse and psychological degradation and live on our knees perpetually repenting and atoning for the sin of being human.

I believe that all activities that produce feelings of pleasure in either an intellectual or a physical form should be banned, that human beings should occupy their time with a regular routine of ritualistic self-abuse and psychological degradation and live on our knees perpetually repenting and atoning for the sin of being human.
You're damn right! Now, convince the rest of the forum goers and we'll be heading somewhere!